Dual Wielding thoughts...

[Kimil]

Hmm, I've heard that there are rules for dual and mixed wielding, why is it that you can't mix a saber and dagger? or have a gun for your right hand and a saber for your left? Hmm... does this mean you can't dual Pistles? But then what happened to dualling Mechs?

Actually, this brings up more questions in my mind... How would dual weilding affect your attacking sequence? Would it be like in Halo 2 where the weapons act seperatly from each other, or would they attack at the same time? Would both weapons attack at the same time act like a critical slash? I wonder how many beats you get in an attacking sequence... Would each weapon get 3 or would they share the three?

[Kent]

I think it was, you hold R1 or equivalent, and it switches to using your other weapon...

But here's what I remember reading: You can have a melee weapon in your right hand, and mix it with a gun or hue in the other. However, this contradicts some of the things that have been seen in videos and images, like a Beast dual-wielding red sabers in one picture, and, of course, dual daggers and dual claws (which isn't out the window; it makes sense if they're combined with another of the same type of weapon). I wouldn't be surprised if they were to follow suit with mechguns, though, and I don't doubt they will.

But that does, however, still leave into question dual-wielding Slicers, one-handed hues, and handguns in the main hand...

[Espilonarge]

Well I know for a fact that when using Daggers you can use them together (like PSO) aswell as Sabres. I'm not sure about Handguns and Mechguns at the moment since there isn't much info about those (havn't seen people dual wield them yet.)

As for mixed weapons (Sabre and Dagger,) that I can't be sure of. Several videos and such show Ethen using a Sabre at one time and a handgun another. He never uses them in "sync" with each other at the same time.

Oh well, once the games out we can simply find out till our hearts content. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[OdinTyler]

As far as we know, we can mix up our held weps however we want. Exceptions are 2 handed weps that naturally, we can only use 1 at a time. I dont see why you couldnt use whatever you want in your right hand & left hand respectively. As said, your left hand is your offhand, so you must hold another button while attacking. I personally plan to try out all types of styles (tho I have an idea of what I want my chars to use).

[StormShadow11]

Eh, I don't think players should have free run of what they dual wield. Some restrictions would be smart. Rangers shouldn't be able to dual melee weapons well (if at all), while Beasts, who are apparently melee specialists, should have a little more leniency as to what/how well they dual wield. However, taking into consideration that weapons are comprised largely of photons, they can't really weigh that much, so dual'ing wouldn't really be all that hard.

[Dre_o]

On 2006-01-07 10:35, StormShadow11 wrote:
However, taking into consideration that weapons are comprised largely of photons, they can't really weigh that much, so dual'ing wouldn't really be all that hard.


Perhaps, but the machinery required to maintain the photon energy over a large area dramaticly increased. So thus, you could not wield a saber and a sword at the same time cause it would be way too heavy, even for a trained Hunter. Not to mention that it would be extremely difficult to weild both those weapons. That is my idea.

[OdinTyler]

Guys, youre forgetting the fact that there are NO classes anymore. Therefore, there shouldnt be a restriction on what you can equip where except for your char lvl & stats. So we should be able to equip what we see fit.

[Atayin]

Technically there aren't "classes". But only because they're not called classes. Classes/races, same thing. They all have their individual strengths and weaknesses, so even though they may be titled by race, there are still class differences based on definition alone.

With respect to this, I'd be surprised if there weren't any restrictions to who can equip weapons. It's already been stated that Beasts aren't so great with guns.. so why would they be able to equip the best guns as soon as a Cast? That'd make them great with guns and it would take some variety/diversity out of the game.

Diversity is one of the prime appeals to me for PSU. I'm pretty excited about dual weilding. Having more freedom to use your weapons however you want will allow for lots of customization, but if Rangers (a.k.a. Casts) are able to run around owning mobs at close range with uber-equips in both hands.. well that'd just be silly http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Atayin on 2006-01-07 13:31 ]</font>

[Espilonarge]

On 2006-01-07 11:49, OdinTyler wrote:
Guys, youre forgetting the fact that there are NO classes anymore. Therefore, there shouldnt be a restriction on what you can equip where except for your char lvl & stats. So we should be able to equip what we see fit.
N-n-n-n-n-n-no classes!!!

WOOWHOO!!!!!

Finally, we can turn the dreaded lock off of what PSO had all this time. Now we can have Humans that actually can act like Casts instead of Newmans all the time. Heck, we can have Newmans that do the same job as a Technique user aswell as a Dagger/Claw master. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Espilonarge on 2006-01-07 13:35 ]</font>

[2D]

I think there should be just a little somethint restricted but think about it..Beasts are kickass with swords and there running around with a two uber guns? Same for casts but with swords? Not saying just a big one.But you know something like that..Make sure a beast cant become a better ranger then a caster and such.

[OdinTyler]

That defeats the purpose of there being no classes. Guys, its going to be like this, TRUST ME on this. Each race will have higher or lower stats on certain stats like atp, def, etc. That will predispose them to certain playstyles. For example, a beast. We know that theyll probably have superior atk & def capabilities. However, being feral, expect lower intelligence, thus, lower MST. Also, ESPECIALLY being in transformed mode, their accuracy wont be as high (going berserk, etc.). so they wont be as good with guns.
My point is: initial base stats will determine already what a race is more proficient at. It doesnt mean your char cant be taught to use a weapon or that it couldnt be decent at a particular playstyle. Ppl are used to classes in PSO & I get that. However, there are no classes in PSU. Its ok to think a bit outside the box. The great thing about this is that if there isnt a limit, DONT limit yourself. We have been given this freedom for a reason.

[DizzyDi]

Even though there are no classes I think there will be some sort of specialization. Something like if me and you were both level 60 and I've been using swords the whole time up to level 60 while you were using guns, I shouldn't be able to switch to a gun and be just as good at it as you are. I think there will be some restritions on dual-wielding, maybe certain stats you have to meet to dual-wield certain weapons? Liiiiike, you'd need high attack to dual wield two sabers (if possible in the game), or high accuracy to dual-wield pistols. This gives me another idea...Dual-wielding canes?

Edit: Funny, the guy below me posted at the same time and we both have 25 posts. In some galaxy, planets just aligned.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DizzyDi on 2006-01-08 10:51 ]</font>

[Atayin]

Everybody, I'm saying this with respect. But just to illustrate what I'm saying...

Class
Pronunciation Key (kls)
n.

1. A set, collection, group, or configuration containing members regarded as having certain attributes or traits in common; a kind or category.
2. A division based on quality, rank, or grade

The Races are the Classes of PSU, so it's okay to refer to them as such. We'll have much more freedom then we did in PSO, we know that for sure. But as for just how much freedom is yet to be seen. Here is how we'll know for sure...

Beasts and Casts both have nanoblasts. This could possibly be a device implimented to balance the game, making up for their lack of stats in certain areas. If that is the case, then we know there are serious limitations to how far a Race or "class" can progress in the long run with specific talents (such as technique, swordplay and gunplay).

However, if we find out that Newmans or Humans have some sort of special ability as well... then we'll know it isn't for balance sake. It's for variety. In which case, stats will be WAY more flexible then anticipated based on previous PSOnline games.

Frankly, I would prefer the latter. I'm a sucker for variety.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Atayin on 2006-01-08 10:54 ]</font>

[OdinTyler]

I hate to break it to you but a race is NOT a class. When in doubt, refer back to DnD. Race & class is very much a separate distinction. The classes in PSO referred to a SPECIFIC equip style that a particular char was cemented to. Not much room for flexibility. PSU is different in that you get some flexibility back. Theres no saying you cant play a certain way that you favor, but, youre not forced into restriction. Class is something of personal choice. Race is not, it is something youre born into. Therefore, NOT the same.
Beasts & Casts dont have similar abilities either. Thats the fun thing about them. Do you want 1 particular ability or the other? A beast's nanoblast is probably a 5 or 10 min booster while a cast's SUV is one mega shot of destructive power. If you were to force a class upon your char, would that mean that ONLY melee beasts could nanoblast or ONLY ranger casts use SUV? It would, if not for the freedom of no class restriction. This is a good thing. We can now focus on what makes a species special, not just what makes a playstyle special. In this, we find the playstyle that just so happens to work for us individually.

[PhishManiac]

How do you know? The game isn't out yet? Does everyone get like this when a game is taking forever to come out? I havent gotten all crazy yet.

[DeathMachine]

All he was doing was expressing his view, not complaining about waiting.

[Blobmiester]

The game isn't out yet? Does everyone get like this when a game is taking forever to come out?

Only when (insert PS game here) is the name. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[OdinTyler]

1. Yes, DM. We cant complain about waiting now. We'd need what...the 10th topic for that? LOL Btw, I see youre really milking that laser nipple reference huh?

2. True, ppl get rabid about PS. But then, I get that way about DnD stuff too. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif We need more console DnD games, especially the Forgotten Realms campaigns. Those games rock! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Atayin]

Well, honestly the way I see it... PSU is not DnD. In some games classes are referred to as 'Jobs'. Sometimes, "trade", sometimes "profession", sometimes "race". DnD and PSU are two totally different things.

It's great to have your own opinion, I respect that (seriously). But I suppose that this is where we will have to try and agree to disagree in a friendly way http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I just hope nobody becomes too uptight about people referring to the races as "classes". The reason I tried to make my point about this at all was an attempt to stand up in behalf of people casually referring to Race with the word "Class". I don't do it personally, but I can understand why others would. Why, it's even been done on the poll at the front page. Everyone has their own terms for things, and it seems appropriate in this case (based on definition), even though Class and Race definately do usually have different meanings in Role Playing Games.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Atayin on 2006-01-08 22:11 ]</font>

[PhishManiac]

Not to go off topic but there are plenty of Forgotten Realms games more than enough. You just might be too lazy to find them.

* Baldur's Gate series
o Baldur's Gate (1998)
o Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast (expansion pack, 1999)
o Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2000)
o Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal (expansion pack, 2001)

* Dark Alliance series
o Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (console game, 2001)
o Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (console game, 2004)

* Blood & Magic (1996)

* Demon Stone (console game, 2004)

* Descent to Undermountain (1997)

* Dungeon Hack (1993)

* Eye of the Beholder series
o Eye of the Beholder (1990)
o Eye of the Beholder (remake) (console game, 2002)
o Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon (1991)
o Eye of the Beholder III: Assault on Myth Drannor (1993)

* Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures (1993)

* Hillsfar (1989)

* Icewind Dale series
o Icewind Dale (2000)
o Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter (2001)
o Icewind Dale: Trials of the Luremaster - (free downloadable expansion pack, 2001)
o Icewind Dale II (2002)

* Menzoberranzan (1994)

* Neverwinter Nights (original) (1991)

* Neverwinter Nights series
o Neverwinter Nights (2002)
o Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide (expansion pack, 2003)
o Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark (expansion pack, 2003)
o Neverwinter Nights: Kingmaker (expansion pack, 2005)
o Neverwinter Nights II (2006 - projected)

* Pool of Radiance series (Gold Box series)
o Pool of Radiance (1988)
o Curse of the Azure Bonds (1989)
o Secret of the Silver Blades (1990)
o Pools of Darkness (1991)

* Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor (2001)

* Savage Frontier series (Gold Box series)
o Gateway to the Savage Frontier (1989)
o Treasures of the Savage Frontier (1992)




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PhishManiac on 2006-01-08 22:18 ]</font>

[OdinTyler]

Wow, someone has alot of time on his hands! Seriously, you dont know me & you call me lazy? That wont do. Anyway, I specifically mentioned console as Im limited what games I can play on my PC. Most of my gaming has to be done on consoles. As for what youve listed, I own BG:DA1 (I need 2) & Demon Stone. Both are great games & tho Ill probably NEVER get rid of them, I could still use other such games. The fact is, theres more PC than console DnD games. Thats what I love about Phantasy Star. I can always find the next game on a console. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[PhishManiac]

*Apologies for going off-topic again*

The console FR counter parts didn't do too well. Most of the FR fanbase exists on the PC with a new Neverwinter Nights coming out this year and rumors of a new Baldur's Gate coming out (Best PC RPG ever) also Dungeons and Dragons Online looks really nice. I've never played the console Baldur's Gates but I hear they are pretty bad but Demon Stone is decent. It kinda reminds me of the Lord of The Rings games. My main reason for not wanting to play the console BGs is because they really changed the game engine and just made the game into a simple little action game and prettied the game up with RPG make up to make it an RPG game. Ah maybe i'll pick them up one day.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PhishManiac on 2006-01-09 06:47 ]</font>

[Brus]

Ok, am i the only one who thinks the dual wield set up is kinda a step backwards. I mean we're allowed to have only 3 dual wield customizations right? I mean that isnt bad, but my problem is did they completely get rid of quick select? Quick select allowed for an instant switch for however many weapons you could carry. Say I have all my dual wield presets filled with guns and melee but I want to equip a one handed HOU. Will I be doomed to have to go through all my equip windows or will there be a form of quick select still available outside the 3 weapon presets... Your thoughts?

[DizzyDi]

Hmmmm...This is a toughy. I think the reason they have 3 quick select weapon arrangements is so that it forces you to strategize more...I guess. You gotta prioritize your set-ups. Even though it may be fun to use a Hou for you, its not a necessity(sp?) so you may wanna just leave it out of your quick selects. Its sorta like on Halo where it only lets you hold 2 weapons, you gotta strategize and decided which 2 weapons are more important to you in the current situation.

[OdinTyler]

Theres a menu you get by holding O. When you do so, all your preset customizations will come up. Idk who told you that theres only 3. There isnt. I saw a few set up already on the demo & I cant say how many there are for sure. However, I did see at least 6 possible combinations that you can store. These are selectable when you play the game. For this demo however, a few were already programmed in. You picked & chose a combo & you would auto-equip those.
As for dual wielding being backwards, not at all. Why hold something in 2 hands that you can easily hold in 1? Freeing up your hands now adds to the gameplay by opening you up to more attack possibilities & a more customizable style of gameplay. Also, since the PS2 has more buttons one can use in a game (holding a button included), it only makes sense to try to take advantage of these new controls.

[Brus]

On 2006-01-15 13:04, OdinTyler wrote:
Theres a menu you get by holding O. When you do so, all your preset customizations will come up. Idk who told you that theres only 3. There isnt. I saw a few set up already on the demo & I cant say how many there are for sure. However, I did see at least 6 possible combinations that you can store. These are selectable when you play the game. For this demo however, a few were already programmed in. You picked & chose a combo & you would auto-equip those.
As for dual wielding being backwards, not at all. Why hold something in 2 hands that you can easily hold in 1? Freeing up your hands now adds to the gameplay by opening you up to more attack possibilities & a more customizable style of gameplay. Also, since the PS2 has more buttons one can use in a game (holding a button included), it only makes sense to try to take advantage of these new controls.



Ok, my whole complaint was that somewhere I read there were only 3 combos, which is why i thought it was backwards. Thanks for clearing that up hahaha

[Genoa]

Great... no race limitations to weapon equiption and the ability to Dual Wield... you realize how many FOmar's there's going to be? Cane in one hand and Saber in the other. It'll be a dash and blast combination >_> .... sounds pretty neat.

[OdinTyler]

Ugh not me. If FOmar becomes as common as HUmar Im gonna laugh. I tend to choose different combos as others as going by a common template seems far too boring for me.

[Alisha]

FOmarl > all
i kinda hope they makes clubs/hammers as brutal as they are in ffxi so i can bring the pain with a fo weap. yesterday a whm pwned me with hexastrike/dual weilding darksteel mauls i was like O_O

[OdinTyler]

Well, you cant say a FOmarl is better than anyone else. Take it from someone with a FOmarl main. You get better as you practice. However, it CAN be said that FOmarl is the most balanced char in the game, period. Thats true. It even says so in the description if ppl would take the time to read it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[IceBurner]

The lastest site update has revealed that there are definitely both races and classes in PSU. There's also evidence that strongly points toward each class being restricted from using certain equipment. However, unlike PSO, it's known that you can change your class at any time at the appropriate service counter.

The official PSU site's "System" page now has an additional section named "Type". There is a slideshow amidst the panel of text. It's 4 frames depict a window listing "Hunter", "Ranger", and "Force" in Japanese, with levels beside each. Below this is an iconic list of all the game's weapon types. Some weapon types become greyed out as the classes are cycled through.

Draw what you will from this, but it seems that you can easily "multiclass" in PSU, however your current class does appear to limit your equipment and thereby, what you can possibly dual weild.

[OdinTyler]

Like Ive been saying for months now, there is no real way you cant dual wield any 2 1handed weps you want. I wish ppl would pay attention already...

[Alisha]

it would be awesome if beasts could dual weild swords!

[OdinTyler]

Idk why this is such a complicated issue. If a wep is too big to hold in 1 hand & it must be held in 2, you can only use 1 at a time. If you can hold a wep in 1 hand, I dont see why you cant use 2 of them or any 2 combos of pretty much anything you like. If you want to use 2 sabers or 2 1h swords for a beast you might be considering, go ahead! LOL My beast is going with a 1h axe/handgun combo, 2h axe as backup. Thats my plan anyway...

[Alisha]

from what i saw in a video it looked like every gun shot consumed pp if thats the case it wouldnt be suprising since they dont combo anymore. if thats the case guns will be costly to maintain possibly on a scale close to monster hunters gunners

[KhaosKidd]

i plan to hav a dagger/wand or cane wtf ever combo http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif 4 my main character(Fonewearl) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif