a Question's for fans

[NarutoV1]

So I've been wondering this past year on when psu comes out will it have a classic mode or if forest will be in any of the worlds upgraded or not if not i will be dissapointing because i have loved the forest lvl for 5 years *especailly Ult http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.*

[A2K]

I think I addressed this in the other thread--it's a completely new universe. Now, granted, some things are universal--forests, for example, can be found on lots of inhabitable M-class planets, but the planets of the Graal Solar System are, I repeat, not Ragol.

[OdinTyler]

On top of that, lets remember that Ragol isnt even Ragol. Thats just what someone on P1 decided to name it. Who knows what the planet really was? (cough)Earth(cough)

[EJ]

But earth doesn't have two moons.

Because when you look at ragol from the lobbies you can see it has 2 moons.

[Nai_Calus]

Ragol has two moons. This is visible in the lobbies, in the Episode 1&2 opening movie, and if your graphics card sucks enough, in the first part of Jungle in Ep2 on BB. Earth does not, last time I looked, have two moons.

As Ep3 shows, Ragol's geography bears no resemblance to Earth's.

Animals, etc are different. There are no traces of human civilization. And for a planet we supposedly trashed so badly we had to leave it for another solar system to screw up, Ragol sure looks great!

Ragol is not Earth, Ruins is not the Alisa III, and the FOmar-looking dude in the uraending isn't Rune or Lutz, either. Stop digging this crap out of your asses, people. -_-;;;

And no, Graal isn't Algol, either, before anyone comes up with THAT idea. -_-;

adsdkfslkglfdkgs;dgdfg. And no, PSU probably isn't linked to PSO or PS any more than PSO and PS are linked. (Hint. PS and PSO aren't linked.)

*head explodes*

[A2K]

I agree! There's no real evidence for any of those suppositions. Well everything except:



On 2006-03-09 21:59, Ian-KunX wrote:
and the FOmar-looking dude in the uraending isn't Rune or Lutz, either.


You've got a bluish-white, hooded mantle and a Psycho Wand! Who else could it be?! Sonic Team is practically waving it in our faces! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-03-09 22:33 ]</font>

[EJ]

On 2006-03-09 22:23, A2K wrote:
I agree! There's no real evidence for any of those suppositions. Well everything except:



On 2006-03-09 21:59, Ian-KunX wrote:
and the FOmar-looking dude in the uraending isn't Rune or Lutz, either.


You've got a bluish-white, hooded mantle and a Psycho Wand! Who else could it be?! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif


Jesus!

Or could be anyone with a white robe and psycho wand. >_>

[Nai_Calus]

Except the PSO Psycho Wand looks nothing like the PS Psycho Wand, and there is absolutely no rational explanation for either Lutz or Rune being there. XP

Now maybe John Q. Random Esper descended from some other random Esper who happened to be on that particular worldship, sure, if you go with a supposition that PS and PSO are linked. (Which I do for things in my fanfic, but my fanfic != PS or PSO cannon) That's reasonable, and could even make some kind of sense. Maybe more than just a couple of world ships survived, maybe Lutz knew that there were multiple Dark Forces running around on them and sent a few of his followers to go help take care of them or whatever, and FOmar-looking dude from the uraending is the descendant of one of them. That makes some kind of sense, rather than just randomly placing Lutz or even Rune(Why the hell Rune, for that matter?) presumably at least dozens of light years from Algol. >_>;;;

[zandra117]

Actually Alisa III is the ruins because of Crys' ending in PSIII which shows Alisa III landing on a planet with 2 moons (aka Ragol).
http://www.algol-star-system.net/data-memory/endings/ps3-crys-26.gif

The ending that most people think about however is Aron's ending which shows Alisa III landing on earth
http://www.algol-star-system.net/data-memory/endings/ps3-aron-25.gif
Because Ragol looks similar to earth in Episode 1 people get confused.

Neither Rune nor Lutz were aboard Alisa III.

The unknown force in URAENDING is most likely one of the Elders of Skyhaven that gave you the Nei weapons in PSIII.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-03-10 11:28 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-03-10 11:57 ]</font>

[DizzyDi]

To get back on topic. Its possible ST will add an updated version of one of the older levels to PSU. I mean...It makes sense to me. Just cause PSU and PSO aren't related doesn't mean they can't update one of the older levels just to please the fans a bit. I actually wouldn't be surprised if I saw an updated forest level for PSU, but thats just me.

[Alizar]

The forest was on Ragol... the new story is no where near Ragol. And in opinion, i have gotten sick of the forest... so i dont think it will be included and i dont think it should be included. FOREST. But there will probably be a forst type area on Paurm.

[Ancient]

You cant have a bunch of animal people without some big trees for them to live in! At least that seems to be the norm set up by Eastern RPG game design philosophy. But since this is a sci-fi setting, maybe they wont after all...maybe they could live in robotic trees, yeah! Robotic NINJA trees...with laser beams! That would rock ^__^

[NarutoV1]

kk well thanks for all the cono's and i hope maybe, they might have a upgraded forest or seomthing that resemlbes it

[A2K]

On 2006-03-10 11:26, zandra117 wrote:
Actually Alisa III is the ruins because of Crys' ending in PSIII which shows Alisa III landing on a planet with 2 moons (aka Ragol).
http://www.algol-star-system.net/data-memory/endings/ps3-crys-26.gif


On the other hand, Ragol isn't green, and its mooons are yellow and red in hue.

Of course, that is a rather small difference...

The problem I see with Alisa III is that it's too big...at least, much bigger than what's depicted in the window in Ruins 1. Also, that large room in Ruins 2...? I'm assuming it's some sort of power plant or engine room. It's much too small (assuming it's the only one) to power something as large as Alisa III.

And are we to assume that Crys and company just crashed that ship into the planet and died? Where are its inhabitants?

I still think that's definitely Lutz in the picture there, but... that still leaves a lot of questions. The idea is still there--with his clothing and weapon, there's just no one else it can be. I concede, though that there's the possibility he's an alternate PSO universe Lutz...

My bet, though? The Ruins are Noah, and that image in the URAENDING (which you can also get by completing all the quests and beating Falz in Episode I & II, by the way) was the original sealing of the monster before he sent that ship out of the system and on its merry little way to eventually end up crashing into Ragol.

Muut, Ditts, Poumn? Three words? The description for "Heart of Poumn" bringing up the Eclipse Torch and Alis (despite the fact it has "Nei" written on the side of it)? Granted the weapon in itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense when all of that is put together... Alis never used claws, as far as I can tell, after all.

Would still have to explain the difference in appearance of the Psycho Wand, though...

While we're on the subject, "Lutz" in Japanese is "Rutsu"... >>

[Ancient]

Its possible that Sonic Team wanted to have some very very very minute references to the previous Phantasy Star games. In which case most of the detail discrepencies(weapon designs, moon colors, ship sizes) could simply be chalked up to continuity errors. Much like reading a long running comic, details and designs for the character change drastically over the years. For instance Superman's power originally came from just having a lower gravity on earth than Krypton, but eventualy they changed it to yellow sun rays.
Each game in the Phantasy Star series was made to be a story in unto itself, with no thought given to any future games to be made in the series (story wise). So it's only to be expected that references in later games would feel a little off. Kinda like how the 2nd and 3rd Matrix films never quite clicked with the first. Becasue the first one wasnt written be a part of a trilogy, it was just supposed to be itself. Sonic Team would obviosly want to add in a few refferences to the older games, for older players who are REALLY into the series and could decipher them. But I can see why they would not want to make those link deffinite, for fear of showing just how many continuity errors there would actually be in the story by now.
Frankly, I really hope that PSU is a completly clean slate as far as story continuity. It works well for final Fantasy every game. And Marvel's Ultimate Spiderman is quite a bit more enjoyable without all that excess baggage from the last billion years. Its time to let one story finally end, and have another begin.

[Sinue_v2]

**Prenote: Nothing post-mentioned is cannon - and Ian is correct in saying that PS and PSO are not connected**

Just to add a detail to Zandra's post, I also believe that the Alissa III is the ruins, and that PSO - should it be connected to PS - is done through Crys's ending. One reason for this, is the Nei weapons. These are increadibly powerful weapons designed by the Espers to fight Dark Force. Now, while they aren't in the ruins of PSO - they are in PSIII, which if you recall - The Alissa III escaped Palma before Rolf and Co was sent to search Dezolis for them. This means that there were multiple sets of Nei weapons spread across the solar system, and their apperant convergance on the Alissa III indicates to me that they were brought onboard by someone who already had possession of them. That person, most likely, was an Esper.

This explains how an "Esper Seal" could have been made on the ruins of the spaceship in PSO (remember, Espers have an affinity for Cryogenics - and the Alissa III was stocked with Cryo technology - so lifespans aren't an issue here. It's probable that the Esper who escaped Palma with the Nei weapons started his own congregation of Espers to prepare for Dark Force's return before entering cryo-sleep. Without the head Esper, the organization may have fallen apart and eventually ended up as the sages of Sage Island - who are also the ones who task you with finding the Nei Weapons on the Alissa III. Once the Alissa III landed and began being dismantled for colonization of the new planet, it's possible that the original Esper was discovered and awoken, and it was he who put the seal on the ship.

Lutz never left Algol, at least, there is no evidence to support this idea, - and he continued to head the Esper Mansion on Dezolis until his death, after which his memories and experiences were put into the telepathy ball and pass on to successive generations of "Lutz's" like Rune Walsh.

The "Esper" in the UraEnding is probably not an Esper at all.

As for trying to make connections to the previous games through the weapons of PSO - I wouldn't. It's obvious that they are there just for reference - and (aside from a few rare cases) not the storyline. The Alis Claw "Heart of Poumn" is proof enough of that. It's description says it's a Laconium "Task".. which is a misspelling of the word "Tusk". If you remember, the Laconium Tusk was Myau's strongest claw weapon - and Musk Cats are a Motavian species - not a Palman. To be correct, it would have to be the "Heart of Mutt" or "Myau Claw". Obviously Sonic Team wanted the reference, but chose style over accuracy since "Alis Claw and Heart of Poumn" sound better.

Not to mention that the Elysdion in PSIV was destoryed protecting Chaz & Party from the collapsing Rift while they made their escape. The Elysion in PSO technically can't exist - and looks nothing like Elysdion of PSIV.

As to what happened to Crys's decendants which escaped the Alissa III - they died. A generation or two afterwards, perhaps, but they didn't flourish. It's not that much of a strech to conclude so. The one survivor, who actually did almost make it into PSO, was a Wren model android (not sure if it was intended to be the same "Wren" which was in your party in PSIII). However, he was never modeled and put into the game. I believe at one point Sonic Team DID want to connect PSO to PS, but decided to start a whole new series further into development - hence all the visual clues but no concrete evidence of a connection. To the best of my knowladge, there were no Wren androids aboard the Noah.

The color of the planet and the moons being different from Crys's planet is an oversight, I agree, but again - it was most likely just design decision since the planet and moons in PSIII looked rather bland. As for the size and proportions of the Alissa III to the Ruins, consessions had to be made for space and display capabilities of the Dreamcast. The engines aren't so much an exact replica of the Alissa III's - but are meant to represent them. Perhaps the Alissa III had several engine rooms. The domed areas did appear small, but it's also likely that the domed roofs collapsed and much of the "overworld" was covered in dirt - with what you see from the ruins only being a small pocket of uncovered area. It's obviously not the Noah, though, since Falz's boss chamber is in a dried up lake-bed and the graves/archetecture of the area match that of the VR Temple - which in turn is based on the Sunken Palace you fight Falz at in PSIII.

And yet again... with all that being said... PSO and PS do not have an offcial cannon connection. Any references to previous PS games in PSO are just that - references, and making the connections is just something the fans do to add a bit of depth and history to shallowness of PSO.

[A2K]

Ah... "tusk", of course. That makes much more sense. I always had intepreted "Laconiatask" as some sort of Laconia smith, as in, "A Laconia smith tempered (made something) with Eclipse Torch's flame." Although now it reads "A laconia tusk tempered with Eclipse Torch's"... well, anyway, that was beside the point I was making, which was that "Poumn" = Palma.

Any theory we come up with tends to assume a lot, unfortunately.

Even if they had collapsed in on themselves it's rather odd that they would appear so small at all in the first place (and in such a strange configuration).

VR Temple, in itself, is based off of structures from The Pioneer Project's homeworld, Coral. I'm not really seeing the sunken palace thing, myself, but I'll take your word for it. (Although it makes sense... in Episode 1 Battle Mode Temple is invariably referred to as "Palace" instead of "Temple" for some reason.)

The weapons themselves... are merely references. Since you can find multiples of any of them I see them as copies made in homage of the originals.

Ah, well...

Again, though, I still think it's Lutz. Maybe alternate, PSO universe Lutz, but Lutz nevertheless. It seems right, that way, rather than it being "nameless Esper #42" or some such.

[NarutoV1]

great reply and ending of the whole ps n pso refrences man and again ty for you votes and veiws

[OdinTyler]

LOL I say one thing & it springs this whole discussion to life. Actually, to those that say the Ruins are either the Alisa III or Noah...you're both right. In Aron's ending, the ship crash lands on Earth's moon after a brief contact with London. All aboard are killed. The ship pieces were salvaged & could easily have been used in constructing the ship used to escape Earth...Noah. Keep in mind that the time frame that Aron & party landed was about 100 years before the 'destruction' of Earth. We're to believe that Noah is a massive ship & would naturally take quite a bit of time to build. In addition, the Earthmen had to create Mother Brain (which took time) & transport it, themselves, & any relevant technology with them.
If we're to believe that the Alisa III did in fact crash land on a planet & pieces were used to construct Noah, then it can be summised that Ragol IS Earth. As for the moons near Ragol, who is to say that 200 years from our present year of 2006 that a planetary orbit couldnt drastically affect our system? It happened to Motavia in Algol. Besides, chalk up a different color scheme to lack of palette. Ive always wondered what that large building outside the view of the Ruins was. Ive been meaning to ask. I never did notice moons tho. That big building was in the way.
I know PS is loosely connected to PSO as PSU would be loosely connected as well. However, too many references are dropped & if it was meant as a tease or remembrance, there wouldnt have been so many. I dont know of a uvaending that has been spoken of here so I cant comment on it. If someone has a link to it & this mention of an Esper, Id like to see it. As for what Ragol is, lets remember the most important thing: the planet's name ISN'T Ragol. The pioneers of Pioneer 1 dubbed it that. Its what they called it. It doesnt mean it wasnt populated before. It doesnt mean Ragol is Earth or any previous planet. It also doesnt mean its not.
Ruins are there so someone at some point WAS there. This we know. Keep in mind Ive not played EpIII or IV so I can only comment on what was before then. A fact that just seems to stand out to me, to point out a previous presence is when DarkFalz first emerges after you touch the tomb. The entire surroundings changes. The illusion drops. The floor is composed of souls from fallen individuals. Everything that was green & lush is gone. To me, it suggests that what we thought we saw of Ragol didnt actually exist. The surrounding background during that fight is the real Ragol. What is left over: a dead world we fight to save.
We can debate this ad nauseum. Gaps have been left for whatever reason. Maybe they wanted to drive us nuts with this. Maybe they wanted us to speculate & find some answer for ourselves. If theres one thing I know is dont believe everything you see on the surface. Theres always far more underneath.

[DeathMachine]

So.....VERY.....DEEP . You guys sure looked into this, although you say it isn't linked.

[Uncle_Pobatti]

Wouldn't that just be so cool - revisiting classic areas from the previous game? While there are loads of reasons why they might not include any, there's always the possibility they may. Sonic Team have always been happy to include nostalgic references to previous games and I can't really see this being an exception. They could easily remake Forest in PSU - doesn't even have to be on Ragol!

GREEN HILL ZONE

Everyone remembers this stage from Sonic 1. Back then, the game clearly took place on a planet that was certainly NOT Earth (commonly called Mobius).

When the Sonic Adventure games started, they went for a different approach, setting the game on Earth. This is definately a different planet than Sonic 1 was set on (as explained by the Sonic Team backed Sonic-X series).

In Sonic Adventure 2 the GHZ made an appearance as a bonus area, not connected to the story purely for nostalgic purposes - it was pretty exact too, ramp for ramp, bumper for bumper, ledge for ledge.

How can the exact same place exist in two planets - it's a game and Sonic Team love nostalgia!

Forest could easily be reproduced fairly quickly and easily. There are Rappies in PSU so it would use them, Bil De Bears instead of Hildebears etc.

Just for fun, and another place to level in - why not?

[DavidNel]

Personally, I'm all for the robot ninja trees with lazers, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

To sum up what I thing about these referances, they are there for you to kid about when you see them. Like, if you play sonic adventure 2, you see big the cat in odd places in the game. No story sugnificance (like there was to begin with...), just cool to notice.

I think there will be a level kinda LIKE the forest, because Sonic Team is just cool like that. I'm not saying it will be the same one, but it will have grass, water, and trees.

[Sev]

Forest... Caves... Mines... Ruins... Not like I wouldn't mind seeing them remade, but the only thing that I really want is...

Music.

That's where my nostalgia comes in. All of the remixed music from previous games that were put into PSO areas. That made me smile a bit, and I'd love to have some similar music in PSU.

Can't really comment on PSO and PS being connected. It's simply that these little bits are Sonic Team's way of keeping people interested and talking about the newer and older games.

[Pseudo]

Id love it if they played Jijy_No_Rag the music that plays in PS4 when you meet Grandfather Dorin, possibly during the scenes with the 3 brothers in PSU, I see them as being kinda goofy that way.