Would you buy a physics processor for PSU?

[lostinseganet]

http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/GDC’05:_PhysX_Attracts_Large_Scale_Support_7347_0_ 0.htm
Hmm maybe this is the real reason for PSUs delay. IF it can make a big difference is gamming such as more then 6 players then I would be willing to give it a try.

[butzopower]

That was over a year ago.

[A2K]

On 2006-03-22 08:58, butzopower wrote:
That was over a year ago.


Indeed. Although I'm curious, has anything come of it since then?

Is a physics processor in itself available for purchase, though? It seesm that it would more likely be integrated into existing graphics cards instead?

[fumatanera]

if the developers didn't design the game with it in mind, i don't think it will impact the game much.

i'm not buying PSU because the water moves coolly...

[Sev]

I can live without it.

I will live without it.

Would be cool though, can't deny that.

[lostinseganet]

On 2006-03-22 08:58, butzopower wrote:
That was over a year ago.

True, but that gives them some time to work on it.

[BORBAN]

What does it do exactly?

[VioletSkye]

Actually instead of spending $250-$300 for a stand alone card, expect to see it integrated into higher performance motherboards. ASUS is already working on motherboards with the PhysX chip built in.

If you want info on it, check out PhysX by Ageia (http://physx.ageia.com/). it is one of the first PPUs (physics processing units) to hit the market.



On 2006-03-22 06:26, lostinseganet wrote:
http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/GDC’05:_PhysX_Attracts_Large_Scale_Support_7347_0_ 0.htm
Hmm maybe this is the real reason for PSUs delay. IF it can make a big difference is gamming such as more then 6 players then I would be willing to give it a try.

It won't have anything to do with how many players there will be in a game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-03-23 19:14 ]</font>

[Blitzkommando]

Too little too late in Sega's situation. Anyway I really don't see any high-end physics equations coming into play with PSU. I haven't seen any overly fluid-based physics, or any real huge displays of physics and that it isn't based on the PhysX engine it wouldn't gain anything with the card. However, if it were to gain benefit from the card I wouldn't purchase the card just for PSU.

Also, the card isn't going to be immediately available to the public for purchase and only to system builders for a while. Also, I have no free PCI slots as all three are used by audio, capture, and wireless cards. If I were to get one I would wait until there were a PCI-Express variant for that as well as the performance benefits over PCI.

Overall, am I excited over PPUs? Yes and no. Yes in that I am excited about companies are finally tackling the physics problem, but no in that I'm not interested in that sort of card yet. Personally, I like nVidia's solution to the problem using SLI and dedicating a card as a PPU. For one thing, a graphics card carries 2x, 4x, and later this year 8x the RAM and runs far faster. Plus, on games that don't use it I can use it as an additional graphics card! Win-win situation for me. Either way, I probably wouldn't purchase one until after some time next year after Vista and DirectX 10 debut. THOSE are what I am really excited about. I have to say though, with all of the crazy enhancements that are coming out for computers right now, 2007 is going to have some things that even just three years ago we couldn't have imagined. The hard part now for me is that I need a job that pays enough to purchase all of this wonderful new technology yet still have enough left over to take advantage of the technology with games!

[lostinseganet]

On 2006-03-23 19:06, VioletSkye wrote:
Actually instead of spending $250-$300 for a stand alone card, expect to see it integrated into higher performance motherboards. ASUS is already working on motherboards with the PhysX chip built in.

If you want info on it, check out PhysX by Ageia (http://physx.ageia.com/). it is one of the first PPUs (physics processing units) to hit the market.



On 2006-03-22 06:26, lostinseganet wrote:
http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/GDC’05:_PhysX_Attracts_Large_Scale_Support_7347_0_ 0.htm
Hmm maybe this is the real reason for PSUs delay. IF it can make a big difference is gamming such as more then 6 players then I would be willing to give it a try.

It won't have anything to do with how many players there will be in a game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-03-23 19:14 ]</font>
When did ASUS state they may do that?

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-03-28 02:09, lostinseganet wrote:


On 2006-03-23 19:06, VioletSkye wrote:
Actually instead of spending $250-$300 for a stand alone card, expect to see it integrated into higher performance motherboards. ASUS is already working on motherboards with the PhysX chip built in.

If you want info on it, check out PhysX by Ageia (http://physx.ageia.com/). it is one of the first PPUs (physics processing units) to hit the market.



On 2006-03-22 06:26, lostinseganet wrote:
http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/GDC’05:_PhysX_Attracts_Large_Scale_Support_7347_0_ 0.htm
Hmm maybe this is the real reason for PSUs delay. IF it can make a big difference is gamming such as more then 6 players then I would be willing to give it a try.

It won't have anything to do with how many players there will be in a game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-03-23 19:14 ]</font>
When did ASUS state they may do that?


Quite awhile ago http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[fumatanera]

On 2006-03-28 02:09, lostinseganet wrote:


On 2006-03-23 19:06, VioletSkye wrote:
Actually instead of spending $250-$300 for a stand alone card, expect to see it integrated into higher performance motherboards. ASUS is already working on motherboards with the PhysX chip built in.

If you want info on it, check out PhysX by Ageia (http://physx.ageia.com/). it is one of the first PPUs (physics processing units) to hit the market.



On 2006-03-22 06:26, lostinseganet wrote:
http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/GDC’05:_PhysX_Attracts_Large_Scale_Support_7347_0_ 0.htm
Hmm maybe this is the real reason for PSUs delay. IF it can make a big difference is gamming such as more then 6 players then I would be willing to give it a try.

It won't have anything to do with how many players there will be in a game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-03-23 19:14 ]</font>
When did ASUS state they may do that?



http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/697/697928p1.html

[VioletSkye]

Here are a few articles that mention the integration of the PhysX chip in motherboards. I am still trying to re-find the official statement by Asus but until I find it again it is mentioned in this article also:
The PhysX will be available as an add on card, as well as intergraded into the motherboard. The stand alone card will look like a mid performance graphics card with any headers. It will have RAM and a cooler. Expect to have a heat sink and a fan. And you can add in a molex power connector too. It will be available in both PCI and PCI-Express flavors. It’s about time we see some PCI-Express products coming besides video cards. My PCI slots have been filling up fast!

Expect to also see some motherboards with the PhysX built in. ASUS has already come out and said they are making a motherboard with the PhysX chip built in. Expect to see a few other major players in the motherboard market announce PhysX support this fall. Having it built into the motherboard seems like a more practical way of doing it. I don’t see a huge market for a $300 add on card, but building it into a motherboard should save some costs. (http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Video-Cards/Physics-Processing-Unit/1/)

You can also read an interview with Manju Hegde (Chairman / CEO) and Curtis Davis (President / COO) of Ageia in which they mention:
We know that Ageia plans on implementing several different interfaces, including - but not limited to - PCI-E, PCI and on-board motherboard integrated solutions. (http://www.gdhardware.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm)

CPU (Computer Power User) also states in an article:
Ageia expects to offer the PhysX chip both as a chip on a motherboard and as a chip on a standalone, add-on board (similar to a graphics board). (http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/archive/c0510/27c10/27c10.asp&guid=)

I'll try to hunt down the Asus article again and if I find it, I'll edit this post.

BTW Asus will be one of the largest makers of the OEM flavor of PPU whereas BFG will mainly be supplying retail versions.

ASUS to Release Ageia PhysX Processor Card in May (http://usa.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=2651)
ASUS First AGEIA Board Partner Supporting AGEIA PhysX Processor for Games (http://ageia.vnewscenter.com/press.jsp?id=1115657069339)

As previously announced on several occasions throughout the last year, both ASUS and BFG have pledged support for the discrete PPU and will be offering their own solutions. Here, ASUS will largely focus on the OEM aspect of the market with BFG being the sole retail presence for AGEIA's physics card. (http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?page=4&articleid=797&cid=2)
BFG Technologies’ Physics Cards Powered by AGEIA PHYSX Selected by Alienware and Falcon Northwest to Enable Extreme Physics in Gaming Systems (http://www.bfgtech.com/news_3.22.06.html)

After reading my original post, I may not have made it clear that there will be stand alone cards (coming in May) for people to buy. I wasn't saying that it will only be found integrated into motherboards. The motherboards with the Physx chip built in are still aways off http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-03-28 10:48 ]</font>

[kazuma56]

Isn't this Psyhics processor supposedly going to be in (in some way) the PS3? I remeber hearing something about the cell being able to use "physics" better because of the multicore processor the PS3 will have.

[lostinseganet]

On 2006-03-28 10:08, VioletSkye wrote:
Here are a few articles that mention the integration of the PhysX chip in motherboards. I am still trying to re-find the official statement by Asus but until I find it again it is mentioned in this article also:
The PhysX will be available as an add on card, as well as intergraded into the motherboard. The stand alone card will look like a mid performance graphics card with any headers. It will have RAM and a cooler. Expect to have a heat sink and a fan. And you can add in a molex power connector too. It will be available in both PCI and PCI-Express flavors. It’s about time we see some PCI-Express products coming besides video cards. My PCI slots have been filling up fast!

Expect to also see some motherboards with the PhysX built in. ASUS has already come out and said they are making a motherboard with the PhysX chip built in. Expect to see a few other major players in the motherboard market announce PhysX support this fall. Having it built into the motherboard seems like a more practical way of doing it. I don’t see a huge market for a $300 add on card, but building it into a motherboard should save some costs. (http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Video-Cards/Physics-Processing-Unit/1/)

You can also read an interview with Manju Hegde (Chairman / CEO) and Curtis Davis (President / COO) of Ageia in which they mention:
We know that Ageia plans on implementing several different interfaces, including - but not limited to - PCI-E, PCI and on-board motherboard integrated solutions. (http://www.gdhardware.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm)

CPU (Computer Power User) also states in an article:
Ageia expects to offer the PhysX chip both as a chip on a motherboard and as a chip on a standalone, add-on board (similar to a graphics board). (http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/archive/c0510/27c10/27c10.asp&guid=)

I'll try to hunt down the Asus article again and if I find it, I'll edit this post.

BTW Asus will be one of the largest makers of the OEM flavor of PPU whereas BFG will mainly be supplying retail versions.

ASUS to Release Ageia PhysX Processor Card in May (http://usa.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=2651)
ASUS First AGEIA Board Partner Supporting AGEIA PhysX Processor for Games (http://ageia.vnewscenter.com/press.jsp?id=1115657069339)

As previously announced on several occasions throughout the last year, both ASUS and BFG have pledged support for the discrete PPU and will be offering their own solutions. Here, ASUS will largely focus on the OEM aspect of the market with BFG being the sole retail presence for AGEIA's physics card. (http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?page=4&articleid=797&cid=2)
BFG Technologies’ Physics Cards Powered by AGEIA PHYSX Selected by Alienware and Falcon Northwest to Enable Extreme Physics in Gaming Systems (http://www.bfgtech.com/news_3.22.06.html)

After reading my original post, I may not have made it clear that there will be stand alone cards (coming in May) for people to buy. I wasn't saying that it will only be found integrated into motherboards. The motherboards with the Physx chip built in are still aways off http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-03-28 10:48 ]</font>
Well May is here but no phy cards are available....Maybe they will delay it, or are waiting for E3.

[VioletSkye]

Actually BestBuy had them listed for a short time: BFG AGEIA PhysX 128MB GDDR3 PCI Physics Accelerator Card (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp;jsessionid=GTQCHX2KP00HPKC4D3LFAGQ?id= cat12085&type=page&sc=ALL&qs=physx&cp=1&sp=Relevance&mipp=25&uq=physx&_requestid=29657)

From my understanding they will be available the middle of this month. There are a few sites doing preorders for them.

Overclockers UK (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eoverclocker s%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fsearch%2ehtml&WD=physx&PN=Online_Catalogue_PhysX_Accelerators_594%2ehtml% 23aGX_2d023_2dBG#aGX_2d023_2dBG)
PC Maniacs (http://pcmaniacs.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=29643c37f7849135 f4f9c1784c39b2e7&keywords=physx&osCsid=29643c37f7849135f4f9c1784c39b2e7&x=0&y=0)

A few independent builders already have them apparently:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=96775



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-05-03 10:12 ]</font>

[kassy]

Lol, in no shape or form is that the reason for PSU's delay, if somehow prove that it is; I'll eat my hat, my shoes, and any other piece of clothing you can throw my way http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Realistic psychics haven't really played a huge role in any of Sonic Team’s previous games to date, but on physics/Sega related news, it's been confirmed that the new Sonic the Hedgehog title with use the Havoc Physics engine.

[qoxolg]

I was saying this some time ago when I saw an option in PSU that was called: "blabla motion" or somting like that with the options "software" or "hardware".. so anyone with a physix card tried it?

The 360 is also capable of physix so I guess PSU really does have physix, and I think its a great thing cause physix have much more impact on how the game will look and feel than some high res textures.

[Jack]

Physics in games is over-rated. I love Half-Life 2, but I can't help but giggle when I hear people talking about how revolutionary the physics is when you can lift heavy machinery around the place with a magnet gun. It'll be fun noticing pebbles falling in correctly-calculated paths for about five minutes, then I'll want to actually play the game.

[qoxolg]

sorry to bumb this topic, but half life 2 don't have real physix. Just search for a trailer of Cellfactor and be amazed of what true physix are capable of. Physics are not only used for some nice movement but also great looking screen effects like deformations, in insane amount of particals that your current CPU can only dream about. IMO physics are a huge step forward in CG.

Physics are really a must have these days. It's really disappointing to see that some xbox360 games don't use it. an example is Dead or Alive 4, the graphics of this game are amazing, I've played the game @ a friend of mine, it looks great, but there is 0 physics in the movements and especially the ragdolls of the characters. its still looking very unrealistic when you hit your apponent on his shoulder and he just fall backward. with good physics its possible to callulate how your apponent will fall to the ground and how far he will be kicked away etc etc..

[Oji_Retta]

Its a game. I don't think it is supposed to be realistic. Otherwise it would be called a simulation. (My thoughts)

[qoxolg]

thats true, but I still prefer to see realistic animations. an example of a PSU video I was watching: you see 2 monsters get hit by a spear at the same time, and they both use the exact same animation at the exact same time, that could be done alot better. but hey, you also got a point, I am just a computer graphics freak http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Nuclearranger]

Allthough PSU is ment for more people to play on lower systems not like revolutionary games that have top end physics and graphics. if that was tru you wouldnt see it on the PS2 and most computers that can run it now

[qoxolg]

But they say that the 360 version is getting seperated, so I hope it will have better graphics/physics. From what I have seen from the PC version is dissapointing me. They atleast could have used normal maps in the PC version of the game. But I am not getting the PC version anyway, cause I am a mac user and I am not planning to buy a PC for a while.

[Nuclearranger]

Well they CANT do anything to the graphics exept increase the resolution and alls thats going to do is get rid of some jiggy lines...

[qoxolg]

I don't see any reason why the 360 version can't have improved graphics. if the 360 version won't get improved, it will be the worst looking game for the 360 so far..

[Hotsuma]

Actually, if you bought an Alienware, you can configure it with that chip. I had the option of adding that chip, but sorry it' just too expensive to only use it for a small miniscule library of games that can actually utilize it.

[kassy]

On 2006-05-04 14:36, NuclearRanger wrote:
Well they CANT do anything to the graphics exept increase the resolution and alls thats going to do is get rid of some jiggy lines...



Exactly.



On 2006-05-04 16:05, qoxolg wrote:
I don't see any reason why the 360 version can't have improved graphics. if the 360 version won't get improved, it will be the worst looking game for the 360 so far..



It "can" have improved graphics, but it's not going to; when's the last time you saw a games company overhaul a multi-platform game's graphics for each individual console? The only thing that will "improve" the graphics on the 360 version is the fact that it'll run in 720p resolution on HDTVs, but even then the PC version can outperform the 360 version resolution wise.

[VioletSkye]

I'd hold on to your cash for awhile. After doing some research on the real world benefits of owning the card now, I've come away very disappointed. Have a read:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA1MiwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[Inazuma]

ok, does PSU actually support this thing or not? cuz i am planning on buying a new pc for psu, and i dunno if i should get it.

[Feran]

PSU doesnt support it, BUT a PPU does offload work from the cpu which in turn should grant you with slightly faster framerates. {VERY good is PhysX, but nothing wholly supports it...YET}

When I bought my ALX for PSU, I had too choose between (maybe 10 more FPS) slightly higher fps or HIghly improved sound(that is actually required to play a couple of games). I went with the sound. IF a ppu goes to pci expresss ill purchase it and install it in my system.

[VioletSkye]

My prediction is that the Physx card goes the way of the dinosaur. Both ATI and nVidia are working on adding physics processing to their cards (having the chip onboard) and that makes alot more sense to me then some addon card. I'd even rather see the chip integrated onto the motherboard (as has been discussed.) The author of the editorial mentions that as well (as did several articles I've read) and an excellent point he brings up is that both ATI and nVidia (although ATI to a lesser extent) both have the financial guns to make that happen and to semi quote the article, I don't see Ageia having the capital needed to compete against those two. Even if Ageia does last, I'd still rather see their chips onboard the videocard or the motherboard. I'll buy one of the BFG physx cards of course to show customers what its all about, but I probably won't be pushing people towards getting one until I see some actual use for it, because by that time, the chip will probably be:
1. Integrated
2. Have an "actual" use (other then to make some demo look slightly better.)
3. CHEAPER and probably with the 256MB that was originally announced (instead of the 128MB that the current cards have.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-05-09 08:53 ]</font>

[qoxolg]

the only game that really shows off the Ageia physix at the moment is Cellfactor, you probably seen that already. They also released a demo of this game, but it won't run without a physix card, so can't check it out.

another interesting thing is that the Xbox360 will also get Cellfactor, so the machine is also capable of physix, but I never heard about an ageia chip in the 360???

I am afraid that if ATI and Nvidia would put a physix chip on their cards, the card would become either incredibly large and hot or it would become a medium videocard with a medium physix chip, remember its not just a chip but a PPU with its own clockspeed and memory... etc etc..

By the way, most games on the PS3 & 360 are going to use physics so it won't take very long untill physics are going to get used in PC games.. the biggest problem with PC games is that people without a physix card won't be able to play with people that do use a physix card.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: qoxolg on 2006-05-09 10:12 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

if it doesnt support it, then there is no way im spending the 300 bux on it. ill just have to settle for 2 nvidia geforce 7950's w/ AA set to 32X