Do you think PSU will be cheat/hack-free MMO?

[FayteEternal]

As much time, effort and energy as we've spent playing PSO over the years it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see our gaming experiences could have been slightly better if cheating/hacking weren't part of the picture. So it stands to reason PSU could be plagued with the same diseases every online PSO game to date has had problems with - cheating...or will it be different this time?

PSU: First cheat/hack/dupe/exploit-free PSO game or not?

[oShojino]

It's wishful thinking to believe that PSU will always be hack/bug/glitch free, but there are hundreds and thousands of hackers that are determined to come out on top, with out hard work, in their favorite mmo.. or those who just spite the game. They're determined and eventually find ways to get the weapons no one else has, or crash the servers and steal from others. However, I believe Sonic Team will be on the ball with PSU and patch the exploits as soon as they appear, unlike PSO.

Lets just hope PSU is like FFXI in terms of security.

[FayteEternal]

On 2006-04-06 13:30, oShojino wrote
Lets just hope PSU is like FFXI in terms of security.


FFXI has suffered from hackers crashing the servers as well on more than a few occassions during the 2+ years I've been playing. When the game first came out there was a glitch that allowed you to duplicate gil via the trade window but that was quickly patched. FFXI though has suffered from a different kind of damaging experience; the buying and selling of gil with the end result being a devasted economy.
You're right though. Security and hacking measures have prevented the duplication of items (with the exception of crafting but excludes 'EX' items).

[Sev]

Even that problem slowly decreased. Prices were nowhere near what they were when I started, but they've dropped a good bit after banning tons of accounts and ridding the game of plenty of gil.

On topic though, as long as someones determined to do so... It will be hacked a bit. And as long as ST keeps up on it, then there's no problem. That's the only thing that we can really hope for. I believe that they will take care of their servers, and do their best to keep the gameplay enviroment cheat free. If it does get to that point, I'll retreat to playing with legit players just like on PSO. Playing with friends, or people that I meet that also don't like the way things are. That's how I did it on PSO, that's how I'll do it here. Hopefully I don't have the limit myself too much though.

Just gotta hope for the best.

[OdinTyler]

No game can or will ever be hack-free. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. Not everyone will play fair or want an enjoyable environment for all. However, can the bugs be kept under control? Yes. How? Well, obviously, there have to be honest players to report things & moreso, responsible admins to ensure that as problems arise, they're handled, not pushed to the side. Looking away becomes more of a problem than the initial bug/glitch/hack.

[Eihwaz]

Cheat/hack-free MMO is always eventually proven to be an oxymoron.

BB does seem to be a lot more secure than earlier versions of PSO, so hopefully PSU will be similarly secure.

[Kano-Okami]

Heh, I had a talk with Nugz the other day about that. He said him and Myria (Buraray) are going to crack it, athough he said 'they'll try not to ruin it'. Just some banter I heard in Schthacks (i'm allowed to say that, right?).

[Inazuma]

it all depends on sega. if they dont want cheats to ruin their game, they have the power to stop it. just look at blue burst. they kept the jp and eng vers completely seperate.

[Saraphim]

It's only a matter of time, I just hope Sega takes it more seriously that it did with PSO ( although BB isn't anywhere near as bad as GC)

[FayteEternal]

mhm, that's why I don't go online and play anymore on GC. Well that and there's probably very little activity now for Episode I and II. I'd just assume not risk exposing my character/data to someone who has the tools to corrupt me.>_>;
Since GC PSO came out I've had the rare luck to never have once corrupted my characters, memory cards or data. So after all this time it only seems logical for me to make every effort to keep things as safe as possible since I don't have the Plus version. I miss playing online though^^;;

[Dreadlock]

No way. As long as games are made, people will be attempting to get past the system, go against the grain, all that stuff. Theres going to be some hacking and some cheating here and there. Sega is going to have to keep a stiff watch to keep up with it. But if they can do so, we can play a moderately safe game.

[Russ2576]

On 2006-04-06 15:21, OdinTyler wrote:
No game can or will ever be hack-free. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. Not everyone will play fair or want an enjoyable environment for all. However, can the bugs be kept under control? Yes. How? Well, obviously, there have to be honest players to report things & moreso, responsible admins to ensure that as problems arise, they're handled, not pushed to the side. Looking away becomes more of a problem than the initial bug/glitch/hack.

Agreed. Since they're going to use a patching system like all other MMORPGs, then there will be simply no excuse for not taking care of any problems that will arise.

[OdinTyler]

On top of that, they should value the words of the players. When we say there's a problem that needs to be addressed & fixed, ST really should listen. If not, they can't exactly wonder why players get upset or their profits drop. If we do our part, ST does theirs, & each party holds the other to their commitment, then all will work out fine.

[FayteEternal]

Odin, ever since PSO came out for the Dreamcast many moons ago the utopia you speak of sadly has never existed. ST never fixed PSO then or bothered much with GC version (From what I saw). I can't really say for Plus, Episode III and BB because I haven't played those versions. I have however seen forum complaints about hacks and exploits in BB being ignored and whatnot but whether those are legit or not remains to be seen I guess.

[OdinTyler]

LOL I wouldn't say I speak of Utopia (as it's realistically impossible). I just speak of hope that things just won't get anywhere near as bad as the DC one was nor do I wish to see the financial lust in people's eyes over cash & items like I saw on EQOA. I won't say PSO (or PSU for that matter) was or is plagued by probs worse than any place else. All I can pray for is that past mistakes were learned from & to quote a bad PSO pun..."Towards The Future"....

[FayteEternal]

That would be nice indeed. I never played EQOA. How was it on Ps2?

[OdinTyler]

DON'T...PLAY...IT! LOL OK, well, in all seriousness, I had good times & bad. I could get into topic after topic about it, weighing both sides. I played it for almost 2 yrs & saw alot go on. I ran a guild there too & saw how to run & not run one. I also learned about crafting, how petty some can be & how generous others are. Made friends, made enemies, etc. What stands out about the game is how freakin' huge it is. Not just because how many ppl played but the world itself is gigantic. Zones & zones that made you feel you were really playing on a planet that happened to have a large continent & many islands to explore. Not to mention all the other dimensional realms too. Definitely an experience!

[Kano-Okami]

On 2006-04-07 19:34, FayteEternal wrote:
Odin, ever since PSO came out for the Dreamcast many moons ago the utopia you speak of sadly has never existed. ST never fixed PSO then or bothered much with GC version (From what I saw). I can't really say for Plus, Episode III and BB because I haven't played those versions. I have however seen forum complaints about hacks and exploits in BB being ignored and whatnot but whether those are legit or not remains to be seen I guess.


I've played Ep III & Beta-tested BB, and both had their fair share of problems.
Episode III was a trainwreck in comparison to epI & II.
FSOD ran rampant there, not to mention noise spam from the 'sound chat' *sigh*.
Then there was BB. I joined near the end of the beta, and I already saw the hackers had a new WTW (walk through walls) along with the name color edit already figured out, and that was before it was released.

[Rubesahl]

I think it won't get extremely bad to the point of DC PSO >_>; Like the poll says "Bugs/glitches will be exploited until patched." and I don't think we'll have mutated chars like PSO since the characters are on the server http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif All in all, I think its going to be nice and much better than PSO.

Honestly as long as

1. Nobody magically PKs me when I enter a game
2. Nobody crashes the lobbies, I mean one or twice but not Oberon Block 1 like O_o;
3. No Nolling...
4. No freezing my game >_> unless it crashes by itself (PC version mainly)

The economy is in a second base for me since I've always been a slow player since I don't have as much time as I'd like (I've gotten to level 130 max in PSO . And if all that happened, I'd just go into a cave (no pun intended) and play with my close friends o.o

On another note I do hope the 'natural' fsods won't happen in PSU T__T I remember having the JPN GC version at the beginning and how much I suffered from them while shopping or doing just about anything online even if it was by myself lol it was frustrating.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rubesahl on 2006-04-08 14:15 ]</font>

[OdinTyler]

FSOD is 1 of the first probs we'd have to worry about. Everyone's thinking that the lobbies are 100+ ppl & that's not it. The devs said that each FLOOR was capable of 100+ ppl. From what I read, it's what, 3 or 4 floors? That's going to house ALOT more ppl. It will ease the congestion with the ability to go into one's room (a VERY smart idea on ST's part). Also keep in mind that even in groups now, ppl can roam the lobbies. If ST found a way to make all this possible with as little FSOD as possible, that's a huge step above what they've done in the past.

[Espilonarge]

Seriously, will all users who keep thinking PSU will be another PSO clone with these unjustified rumors just stop?

I know allot of people here are scepticle about how PSU will fit in with how badly PSO was exploited but Sonic Team has already stated that PSU is a start from scratch job meaning any old exploit from PSO will not be possible since the code is completely diffirent.

Even then there has never been a PSO title on the PS2 to date so in an ethical sense it won't be possible for hackers to just cross-refrence there hacks into PSU from PSO.

Sorry if I'm coming down abit harsh but some people need to cut Sonic Team some slack. PSU is not another rehash PSO clone.

If you want someone to blame thoe, take it out on Sega. They're the ones that host the servers and maintain them, Sonic Team has no control over them what-so-ever. Sega is the only company that ranges from Japan to the English community while Sonic Team has never really setup shop what so ever outside their own waters.

Now let these PSO exploits lay to rest.

[physic]

I think teh point is not wether the same exact problems will occur, the point is whether similar problems and similar responses will occur. whether its fsod or just game crash, killing your inventory and possibly currupting your data is teh issue, though from what i ve seen thats unlikely with serverside saving, whether your client crashes or not, as long as teh server data is fine it shouldnt currput/mess your character up IF they do it right. The point is, in the past sega has been unresponsive or unable to solve thier bugs, will this continue in psu? thats the real question

[FayteEternal]

Yeah, this is really not an issue of creating rumors or an atmosphere of negativity but more about the issues we all have had to deal with in the past. It would be one thing if only 1 online version of PSO had been released and this type of thread was made but since several online (PSO) games are out now then history will be the judge.
Personally, I'm in favor of as pleasant an online experience as possible and on a MMO scale this large (For PSO's standards) maybe Sega will deliver. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[OdinTyler]

Agreed. Server-side saving is new to me (for PSO anyway). I experienced it on EQOA. It had it's ups & downs there. I was still worried if things would happen to my chars, but, for the most part, they were safe. FSOD & BSOD were the worst things, especially BSOD because it was preventable (mostly). Some zones froze up on ppl 9/10 times they entered it. A patch would've fixed it, but, SOE was too lazy to be bothered by the hundreds of ppl that brought it up to them (myself included). I think for the most part, we're hopeful here. However, we must hold onto at least a thread of realism. Problems or not, I think we're going to enjoy the game. Of course, if problems on servers are lessened or non-existant, that's going to make the experience even better. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[hypersaxon]

On 2006-04-07 19:34, FayteEternal wrote:
Odin, ever since PSO came out for the Dreamcast many moons ago the utopia you speak of sadly has never existed. ST never fixed PSO then or bothered much with GC version (From what I saw).

That's because patches didn't even exist for console games back then. It wasn't until PS2 went online that console patches started becoming common. Remember, memory cards weren't so big back in the Dreamcast days lol

Anyway, seeing as the game is supposedly going to be connected to Sonic Team's servers at all times, and also seeing as the game is NOT using the same recycled PSO coding, I hope that will help keep hacking and duping to a minimal. It is possible that there will be exploits in the game that will be taken advantage of once found (like the shop duping trick) but hopefully Sonic Team will be quick in getting patches out to fix problems like this.

I sincerely hope that PSU doesn't get hacked, but anything with the name Phantasy Star on it is destined to be hacked sooner or later. If it does happen, I sincerely hope Sonic Team not only bans these people from their servers, but bans their credit cards so they can't get a new subscription. They've got their own service now, they have the means to set up things like this, and I hope they start being more strict about people hacking their servers.

[FayteEternal]

You know what would be funny? Actually......this isn't very funny at all. Frankly, I'm not sure why this even crossed my mind but for some strange reason I had an image flash through my head about IGE selling Meseta. lol..
Gilsellers are what we called those tools in FFXI who helped ruin the economy.
'Meseta sellers' just doesn't quite have a ring to it. Oh well, forget I even brought this up.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[A2K]

They're called "Gold Farmers" in World of Warcraft, methinks. I remember seeing a few auctions on eBay for Meseta and such for PSO, actually. It was a bit before the game really, ahem, matured and cheating became all-too commonplace, though.

I don't actually see all that many cheaters on BB these days. Although, I don't spend that much time outside of Hyperion 2, either.

[OdinTyler]

Well, let's just hope that crap doesn't happen on PSU. Selling in-game items & cash for real money messes up things in game. If you can't get it in the game, as set up in the game, what's the point, right?

[Sev]

It's not completely unjustifiable in some games like WoW, L2, and FFXI though... For some people, the amount of time and effort that it takes to do things, it would just be better to buy it and get to playing. FFXI and L2 moreso then WoW, WoW is easy to get money on. FFXI is ridiculously hard, Gil does not come easy, and L2's economy just flat out sucked.

More then anything, the fate of games are determined by the people that play them. Yes the company that maintains the game needs to step it up and do what needs to be done. But the same goes for the players as already said. Basically from what people kept telling me, patching PSO was impossible, if you fixed something, something else would come up, and possibly would be worse then the previous problem. Add that on to the game basically being the same with things added when ported to different systems... And there ya go. Can you really say that some of those problems could be fixed?

And something like the shop duping trick... That's so much work. Who the hell figured that one out? Seriously, how do you just stumble upon that?

And banning Credit Cards = Bad Idea. The same with banning IP's sometimes. Whose to say your not on the same credit card number as someone else? They get banned, you're gone too. Yeah, it would be a good way to deter it, but that's still not fair at all.

FayteEternal: Camping some of the mobs in FFXI just isn't worth the effort. You gotta wait hours for them to spawn, fight with about 10 people to get the claim, then after all that, you don't get a drop for like 20 attempts at the mob. I still wouldn't pay money for the item though.

[Kurosawa]

I think it'll get hacked at least somewhat.

[FayteEternal]

Sev, I earned 113 million gil during my time in FFXI, all of which was earned from crafting, ENMs, BCNMs and NMs so it's pointless to tell me camping isn't worth it^^;;
As far as banning people's CC's I think it's fair if they were engaging in malicious activities.
If you happened to be piggy-back riding on a friend's credit card and your friend gets banned thus you can't play too, then thats how it goes.
I lost several friends that way in FFXI because so and so's brother did this and that thus the CC got banned and my friend had nothing to do with the offenses but was on the CC.
It's a strong deterent to get your crap together and act like you're suppose to in a MMO that effects hundreds, even thousands of people.

[ANIMEniac]

Yea but one thing is that FSOD was far less devistating on BB than other versions. from my experience on x-box and BB beta, an FSOD was just an anoyance b/c once u get back on you still have all of your stuff regardless. and x-box you can(and most of the time do) loose all unequiped items. also like i have already stated, the fact that for once in 6+ years the game engine is going to change, the hackers will be forced to learn new things. not at all saying we will have a the utopia. but that and server side should help, along with other players which will hopefully work well bacause many of the legit players from each version of the game will be playing first to somewhat tilt the odds in a good favor. and as for glitches and bugs. of course they will be explioted, heck ive done some. honestly who hasent taken advantage of the Photon blast enimy freeze atleast once. but the ones that need to get patched are the ones that harm the economy like item and weapon duping. all and all though, not much is worse than being on the x-box server (we still have the x-mass lobby -_-) and if it does turn out that the "rooms" work guild wars style, you wont have to worry about hackers barging in and being idiots. well i will stop typing 4 now and let people pick at the faults in my resoning <(^_^<)

[hypersaxon]

On 2006-04-10 12:19, Sev wrote:
And banning Credit Cards = Bad Idea. The same with banning IP's sometimes. Whose to say your not on the same credit card number as someone else? They get banned, you're gone too. Yeah, it would be a good way to deter it, but that's still not fair at all.


If they banned a credit card number, they would also ban the name of the person who owns the card as well. That way, if someone were to have the same credit card number, he could still play because the name on the card is different than the person with the banned credit card.

And IP banning would only work if everyone was required to have a broadband connection, since dial-up users connect to a random number each time.

[FayteEternal]

It's not worth it to lose your account, it really isn't. You not only lose the means to continue playing the game but also everything you worked so hard for. When our good friend's CC got banned so much was lost but his brother (Who was on the same CC) wouldn't stop speed-hacking in Ballista (FFXI's version of PVP) so everyone on the credit card took the fall - permanently.

[OdinTyler]

That's why sharing an acct is a bad idea. Whoever owns the acct should be the only one playing. You can keep yourself accountable. As for your friend, he had the unfortunate luck of having a brother who just couldn't do the right thing. It may just be a game, but, NO ONE touches my online chars while I'm not around. It's just not happening.