Verdict on dial-up and PSU? yes or no? [Archive]

Violation

Apr 25, 2006, 05:01 PM

What the hell are you using that tone for?! I did not call you a cheap ass or any of that. I'm telling you what my friend said. He wouldn't lie about something like that. I'm just stating what he said. Just because you didn't get the answer you want your acting like i'm a liar. Well, this game is NOT FFXI and it more then likely won't be as stable as FFXI. All I am saying is don't get your hopes up. Constant patches, lots of people on screen. I mean, i'm in no position because I have not tried it on my own (well I have on another friends BB connection) But I would let go of this whole 56k dial up dream. Sorry for the harsh tone (now) but I don't like your previous post at all...

_Tek_

Apr 25, 2006, 05:27 PM

This is what he wants to hear:

"Oh yeah, dial up works fine"

Lux

Apr 25, 2006, 05:30 PM

On 2006-04-25 15:01, Violation wrote:
What the hell are you using that tone for?! I did not call you a cheap ass or any of that. I'm telling you what my friend said. He wouldn't lie about something like that.
[...]
I don't like your previous post at all...

Don't worry, your post was alright, he's just shocked that he won't be able to play PSU.

xenokai

Apr 25, 2006, 05:42 PM

no the reason i was like that is because (most people do just say that because BB is better) i know its better all im wanting to see is someone try playing it on dial up connection for more then 5 mins. I know people warp around even on BB on PSU from the videos and post's i wouldnt care for people warping around as long as i can play it online without me and the monster i fight lagging around.

Lux

Apr 25, 2006, 05:50 PM

Hate to tell you but 6 players who do insanely many actions (this game seems to be very fast), plus up to 20 monsters (I guess) and 100 people in lobby will make you drop. Also I guess you mind the many patches that will be up to come.
Also it's not just the others who appear warping around to you, you also appear warping around for them (which is really annoying to play with, sorry).

So now I have to say that I said exactly what Violation said but, yeah, you know..
Definite NO.

If you just want the monster to appear and don't care much about the team mates anyway, just stick to the offline story mode and extra mode, those should be fun, too.

googles

Apr 25, 2006, 05:52 PM

People still use 56k?

xenokai

Apr 25, 2006, 05:53 PM

long as i can chat and kill stuff like PSO was it's not dropping connection i can stand it ans so can my friend's.

Violation

Apr 25, 2006, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the back up :/ I thought I had said something really offensive but did not notice.

Anyway, I was just being blunt and honest. You could go through 100 bull posts saying "yea it will work fine" "yea ffXI can so can this" but I beleive using a 56k connection with this game is not possible for reasons I and others have mentioned before. I did not want to put false hopes in your mind. I am just trying to be realistic. I mean, maybe it could work well, but it's unlikely.

PhotonCat

Apr 25, 2006, 06:00 PM

Why are you using FF11 as an example?

FF11 is a low-populated, uninteractive, slow MMORPG. You cannot jump in it even. Nothing goes on it that game that would stress a connection either.

In PSU you are gonna have players jumping all over and doing all these attacks and what not. If you have dial-up I am sure you are gonna lag out and cause other players stress with your performance as well.

If you can get DSL or Cable - get it. If you cannot because of your area then I dont know what to say. Move maybe? This day and age dial-up doesnt cut it anymore. Game compaines aren't gonna try and make the game stable for people who won't "get in with the new and out with the old".

Lux

Apr 25, 2006, 06:00 PM

PSO is something TOTALLY different, you can't even compare it. PSU has got MMORPG elements in it (bandwith nightmare).

But as you don't seem to get it and don't seem to want nor accept our honest oppinion (not that I didn't think you would but I tried) can anyone lock this topic? He will never get it.

Velocity_7

Apr 25, 2006, 06:16 PM

1.9 MB patch downloads. You decide.

Ryna

Apr 25, 2006, 06:31 PM

On 2006-04-25 15:42, xenokai wrote:
all im wanting to see is someone try playing it on dial up connection for more then 5 mins.

I've already answered this question multiple times, but it looks like I'll answer it again.

I played PSU for four hours on dialup last weekend. In my opinion, the experience was extremely unsatisfactory. People were warping around. There was a lot of lag for damage registration and items appearing. Trying to find and keep up with people in the lobby was almost impossible. It might be possible to play PSU on dialup if you are playing solo and on an uncrowded ship. Otherwise, the experience just was not enjoyable at all.

Some of this might be due to latency caused by playing on a Japanese server, but I doubt it is the sole contributor.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2006-04-25 16:32 ]</font>

Sinue_v2

Apr 25, 2006, 06:33 PM

Well.. to be completely fair we don't know exactly how the US servers will preform with 56k. Right now, all the Beta players are on a JP server - which causes a helluva lot of lag even in a BroadBand connection. I've played JP/AU people on Xbox Live (Halo 2, Guilty Gear, ect) and the experience is almost totally different than playing a US or even (in some cases) EU players.

Not to say that I believe that 56k will preform very well even in a US server - due to the increadible amount of on-screen action and wide breth of character customization which increases the bandwith load exponentially. However, I'm sure it will preform better in the US - even if it still runs like crap. There's a chance that Sonic Team may even impose a bandwith cap which cuts off 56kers altogether.. so until a final US version is out and playable - I don't think anyone know just how 56k will hold up.

As for the patches, they won't be a problem over 56k. The maximum size a patch can be is around 4MB, and after playing EQOA (a similar 4MB restriction) and FFXI (No MB restricition) - I can safely say that it won't really hinder people who are a bit patient. You kinda have to be patient with 56k anyhow. The most you'd have to wait to download and login would be around a half-hour... which is peanuts compaired to FFXI where some of the downloads would take 6-8 hours.

vox3om

Apr 25, 2006, 06:39 PM

I figure that whether it were or weren't able to be played through dial-up, why would one want to. It's going to be a very busy game and could possibly run quit slow with dial-up. Something worth considering more is whether your PC is up to date...speak about hell on earth if you had a crappy PC and dial-up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

vitius137

Apr 25, 2006, 07:07 PM

i guess if you really wanna endure it you can try, but it will definately be hard in battle

Nedeti

Apr 25, 2006, 07:40 PM

Dial-up and MMO aren't to be mixed. High speed connect required

shinobu_seta

Apr 25, 2006, 08:20 PM

If this is any consolation:

For several months I was stuck with dial up for PSOBB. I hardly ever experienced heavy lag, which a few of my friends can testify for by playing with me. Mind you I never connected below 46k. I'm not saying it was perfect, there were times with lots of lag, but the game was still playable.

With PSU, it might be too early to tell, and there may be more things going on that eat up bandwidth. But if it's the usual hack and slash action of PSO then you just might be okay. Plus the servers are in Japan right now, so it's hard to judge anything from beta play.

Please bear in mind though, PSU will probably have the largest community of any online Phantasy Star game. It's gonna be difficult to find unpopulated areas and even more difficult to get friends to follow you to those areas for play.

_Tek_

Apr 25, 2006, 09:00 PM

"Verdict on dial-up and PSU? yes or no?"

I'd say the verdict is NO.

Should this thread be closed yet?

PrinceBrightstar

Apr 25, 2006, 09:44 PM

I'm actually on an Internet2 connection here at school, and players were still jumping around lagged. Has anyone on any connection had any luck with other players being smooth in lobbies and such? I wonder if sega reduced the network load in such a way that this happens since its a beta and they don't want to totaly over stress the server.

Sev

Apr 26, 2006, 12:21 AM

Yeah, I think we should stop giving definite answers to things we don't know.

The answer to your question is in the air. People will say no simply because they don't wanna play with people on Dial Up. People will say yes because they wanna play with people on Dial Up.

And posts like "People still use 56k" clearly aren't going to help anything. He's probably said it over 80 times, he lives in the boonies, he can't get anything but insanely expensive service. Maybe that's ok for you rich bastards out there (No I'm not pointing out anyone directly) but if I was him I wouldn't pay for that either. If he could get Broadband he would, most gamers would. The fact is, that it's not really too possible of a solution for him so why don't you try to think and be a bit more considerate.

We don't know how it'll act on the US servers. It won't be great but who's to say it's unplayable? And with FFXI, the connection is stable for a reason. The main reason being the PS2's broadband connection isn't that great. So PC user's have to slow down to their needs. Don't hold me to that, I'm not THAT informed nor do I care that much.

Basically, give the guy a break.

Kimil

Apr 26, 2006, 12:36 AM

I say no

And Even if you could used DIal up, it would be a horribly laggy gaming experience... Not fun at all

kassy

Apr 26, 2006, 01:13 AM

Don't try and compare 56k experiences on PSO to what you can expect on PSU, remember PSO was originally designed entirely based on 56k gaming.

That's all I'll say on the matter, people shouldn't attack 56k users, a lot of people still live in areas where broadband access isn't available, and that doesn't necessarily mean you live out in the middle of the desert either.

xenokai

Apr 26, 2006, 04:01 AM

On 2006-04-25 22:21, Sev wrote:
Yeah, I think we should stop giving definite answers to things we don't know.

The answer to your question is in the air. People will say no simply because they don't wanna play with people on Dial Up. People will say yes because they wanna play with people on Dial Up.

And posts like "People still use 56k" clearly aren't going to help anything. He's probably said it over 80 times, he lives in the boonies, he can't get anything but insanely expensive service. Maybe that's ok for you rich bastards out there (No I'm not pointing out anyone directly) but if I was him I wouldn't pay for that either. If he could get Broadband he would, most gamers would. The fact is, that it's not really too possible of a solution for him so why don't you try to think and be a bit more considerate.

We don't know how it'll act on the US servers. It won't be great but who's to say it's unplayable? And with FFXI, the connection is stable for a reason. The main reason being the PS2's broadband connection isn't that great. So PC user's have to slow down to their needs. Don't hold me to that, I'm not THAT informed nor do I care that much.

Basically, give the guy a break.

exactly my point and everything else you said. i cant get bb or dsl here except that exspenive sattilite dsl that wont play games anyway. Thank's for understanding. im not looking for a hell yea runs great im just simply wanting to see other people exspeirce on dial up with psu. (thank btw to rydna but id like more then just 1 person overveiw. thanks tho

Lux

Apr 26, 2006, 07:20 AM

On 2006-04-25 22:21, Sev wrote:
People will say no simply because they don't wanna play with people on Dial Up. People will say yes because they wanna play with people on Dial Up.

Sorry, but that's hilarious. And the answer is not in the air.. even a blind man can close to death can tell you without ever having played this game that it will suck. Seriously.

Sev

Apr 26, 2006, 09:00 AM

Sorry Lux, but whether it sucks or not isn't the point. It's about the game being playable online. I thought it was already discussed that Broadband connection here isn't as easy to get access to as it is in Japan. Sega of America should at least be able to understand that. I'm not saying it'll be good or great, I'm saying we don't know whether or not it'll be playable. That's up to the person that's trying it to determine. If it's all you got, then it's all you got.

And who said it won't suck? I'm saying we don't know if it'll be playable or not. There's a difference between what sucks and what's just not gonna happen.

Russ2576

Apr 26, 2006, 05:32 PM

On 2006-04-25 17:40, Nedeti wrote:
Dial-up and MMO aren't to be mixed. High speed connect required

Incorrect. I play City of Heroes/Villains, and 56k users can play that just fine, and it allows 8 people to a team, all with graphic intensive attacks and such, and all while fighting lots and lots of enemies.

Required? More like reccomended.

physic

Apr 26, 2006, 05:35 PM

from what people in the beta have said, you can connect for more than 5 minutes to the server. But apparently teh connection isnt as good as it was in pso or psobb, or guild wars. From what people have said its not as compatible as some other games.

Sev

Apr 26, 2006, 05:54 PM

Yeah, it's understood that it's not good. But they're connecting to Japanese servers. It could be a little better when it's closer to home. That's why I think we should just wait and see then.

qoxolg

Apr 26, 2006, 06:16 PM

Like it is said above, PSO was designed to run on 56k, hell the DC was even slower? but PSU is designed to use 256k so it will, they didn't put that in the requirements for nothing, its because they intended to use that amount of bandwith for some reason. Maybe for smoother movements of other players. It got nothing to do with graphics intense crap, your not streaming realtime graphics to the server but data of where you are moving, or if your are attacking.

I think the problem is is that PSU is alot more serverside than PSOBB.

I can understand the frustration, just hope for some mirracle that will make broadband internet possible @ your place

OdinTyler

Apr 26, 2006, 06:29 PM

I've played PSO on dialup & EQOA on broadband. I can speak on using both. Naturally, I'd recommend broadband. Unfortunately, not everyone can get broadband in their area & it's not so easy for them to upgrade. Picking on people for being stuck with dialup because they live in the boonies isn't really fair. I remember what it was like to be stuck with dialup because I used to not be able to afford DSL & DSL was hard to come by in my area. Eventually that changed & I was able to upgrade. That being said, their connection speed affects them, not you. If you have a better connection speed, be happy for you & try to avoid ridiculing another for not being as fortunate.

Also, graphics were mentioned. Connection speed COULD be affected by lots of flashy graphics. However, it's all about the data streaming. If there's too much action going on screen for example & that's more data than your ISP can process at once, THEN I could understand how graphics would affect your connection. It's really all about the initial connection to the server. If there's a pretty much smooth connection once you get aboard, odds are you're going to be OK. If not, this needs to be looked into. But then...we know this already...

physic

Apr 26, 2006, 06:40 PM

not exactly, the graphics can slow your game, but its not the same as connection. like someoen said its the amount of information they send per action, and how fast that action needs to be executed. Essentially its about how they designed the system. It appears that its not gonna be as good as pso or psobb, THIS IS WHAT THE TESTERS HAVE SAID. at this point that is all that can really be said, we can only guess at any other factors, but at this point thats it.
However you do appear to be able to connect and run around. not as well as before but its possible. If you have friends who wont mind your connection probs, and you wont mind the probs then you can play, it just dont expect it to be as good as pso or psobb.

OdinTyler

Apr 26, 2006, 06:44 PM

Physic: That's what I said (about the graphics). I was agreeing in how it's a factor, just not the sole determinant.

As for me posting as I did, I understand how both connections feel. I'm glad to have my highspeed for as long as I have & I hope I always can keep it.

physic

Apr 26, 2006, 06:55 PM

ah, well i was disagreeing, your graphics wont effect your connection speed, it will effect your game speed, but the data sent to you and the people connected to you, would be the same. When people have slow games its important to know if its due to a slow connection or problem with the game/settings, many people confuse these because the results can be different.

that aside my main point is ryna has explained what you can expect based on this beta, regardless of what is possible right now, it seems to be poorer than pso or psobb in dial up connection. more ghosting, more losing your friend, issues with getting hit by ghosts, and etc. It seems to be worse than before. However Ryna was able to connect and speak, and somewhat play, so yeah you can play just a lot crappier than before.

REJ-

Apr 26, 2006, 10:30 PM

Want an example of what it would be like to play PSU (or any MMO) on dial-up? Play Runescape on a 56k connection, look at the lag. Now try this with a REAL online game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

kassy

Apr 26, 2006, 11:35 PM

On 2006-04-26 16:16, qoxolg wrote:
Like it is said above, PSO was designed to run on 56k, hell the DC was even slower? but PSU is designed to use 256k so it will, they didn't put that in the requirements for nothing, its because they intended to use that amount of bandwith for some reason. Maybe for smoother movements of other players. It got nothing to do with graphics intense crap, your not streaming realtime graphics to the server but data of where you are moving, or if your are attacking.

I think the problem is is that PSU is alot more serverside than PSOBB.

I can understand the frustration, just hope for some mirracle that will make broadband internet possible @ your place

Exactly what I was trying to say http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Judging 56k connections on the beta now isn't a good idea, wait till the final release when the servers are closer to home.

lostinseganet

Apr 27, 2006, 04:57 AM

On 2006-04-25 16:00, PhotonCat wrote:
Why are you using FF11 as an example?

FF11 is a low-populated, uninteractive, slow MMORPG. You cannot jump in it even. Nothing goes on it that game that would stress a connection either.

In PSU you are gonna have players jumping all over and doing all these attacks and what not. If you have dial-up I am sure you are gonna lag out and cause other players stress with your performance as well.

If you can get DSL or Cable - get it. If you cannot because of your area then I dont know what to say. Move maybe? This day and age dial-up doesnt cut it anymore. Game compaines aren't gonna try and make the game stable for people who won't "get in with the new and out with the old".

You can jump in PSU???

physic

Apr 27, 2006, 05:07 AM

nope

Lux

Apr 27, 2006, 09:04 AM

On 2006-04-26 07:00, Sev wrote:
Sorry Lux, but whether it sucks or not isn't the point. It's about the game being playable online.
[...]
I'm not saying it'll be good or great, I'm saying we don't know whether or not it'll be playable.
[...]

Sorry Sev, but whether playable means fun or not is another question.
I'm just saying that if you got a bad connection online games aren't that fun and I myself would stick to the offline variant in that situation as it's not worth to pay the monthly fee and have only trouble with lag all the time. C'mon, that's not what I call fun?
And yeah, I'm happy with my DSL, thank you.

About the lag caused due to graphics or connection: Imagine you run straight forward and you got all those (super funky) effects that make your framerate go down to 1 FPS. Your friends will still see you move smoothly although you see yourself move only once a second. That's "graphics lag" or how you want to call it.
Vice-versa if you run straight forward and your video card can handle the (super funky) effects, but you got a modem and all those P2P programs running while playing and also surfing and talking on the internet (okay kinda exaggerated but oh well), you will see yourself move super smooth but you lack the updates on information where your team mates are and where they move as well as they lack the update on where you are and move (which you don't notice). You're not "synched" anymore and players got different information about the current situation, e.g. someone you think you shoot in the head right now stands behind you with a knife actually. If you're not synched for too long you will receive a time-out for that reason and get kicked by the server (that might be what Ryna might have experienced, I don't know about her reports).

Rubesahl

Apr 27, 2006, 09:43 AM

My friend has had 56k till a few months ago while we had it for about 3 years before him. He could've had it with us but his parents didn't agree until now. In those years we noticed how things were turning more and more broadband adapted. For example XB Live in 2002 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif , playing FPSs online and some mmorpgs like Anarchy Online performed much better in bb. Anyways this all depends on the type of 56k u have. There's good and crappy 56k. 56k that connects at 40 something and the other that connects almost at 20 something or lower. It all depends. Usually good 56k can play online games laggy but not DEAD laggy. I do find it weird you don't have DSL if u have a phoneline, plus you live in the US... dunno Puerto Rico is a smaller island so maybe that's why DSL is so available pretty much everywhere >_> and if not there's cable <_<; And from what I've seen, US companies have great low prices for DSL, bb isn't just for rich people anymore O_o so that's not a factor.

In the end my main suggestion is ISDN. Which is available anywhere 56k is available by pretty much combining two 56k connection (in this type, 64) to sum up to 128k. A good 128 k is supposed to be enough to get pretty smooth online gaming (though things may start getting even more bandwidth demanding in coming years but for now it should suffice). Many games don't even get any faster above 128k. Main problem is that you need another phoneline besides the one you use for dsl.

Second suggestion, ask your phone company if they can condition your line. I've met people who do that and they download like at 7kbps steady and play online games with little lag.

As for relating this to PSU... Betas are usually much slower than the game when its actually released and servers that are in Japan may all contribute to worsen the 56k symptoms. Like some people here have already said, its sometimes even laggy for them and they are on broadband. Bottomline is we won't know if it works or not until the US version comes. So for now just stay calm and wait until then when I'm sure people here will try it. What we can assume is that the game will move kinda bad in dial up, as in warping all the time and getting d/ced sometimes. Otherwise it may be playable. Like I said, we just don't know yet...

PhotonCat

Apr 27, 2006, 11:44 AM

You can jump in PSU???

Well I thought you could... thought I saw it in a video. Be kinda dumb if you can't, I hate being glued to the ground.

And about connections and graphics... Graphics have nothing to do with how well you connect. Graphics are loaded by your PC. If you are loading slow and having "video lag" (stuttering, low fps) it is because of your junky PC.
Now yes... if you have a very slow connection, like dial-up, it will make things load-in slower(online) and cause it to be worse.

Ryna

Apr 27, 2006, 11:48 AM

On 2006-04-27 09:44, PhotonCat wrote:

You can jump in PSU???

You can't jump in PSU. You might see people doing jump kicks and hops, but those are just lobby animations.

Sev

Apr 27, 2006, 12:04 PM

Sorry again Lux, but whether it's fun or not is left up to the person playing it. If he wants to play it that bad, then let him try it. It's best for him to see for himself, rather then get reports when we don't really have complete concrete proof of it. Aside from that, it's his fun to be had and not ours. If the games playable, who's to say he can't have his fun with it? You appreciate what you have while you have it, because it's alot better then nothing at all. It's up to the people who have to use 56k to decide whether or not they can have fun on it. I've played with people that have had extremely terrible lag on PSO, and they just kept playing like it wasn't a problem. To each his own. What you call fun isn't what other people consider fun, the world doesn't work that way. And it's not like you'll constantly have a terrible connection, it's still too early to tell. That's just me though. I don't wanna accept anything that isn't concrete and applies to my conditions.

If he had access to DSL he'd have it. I'm lucky to have it myself, but I know what it's like to be on Dial Up. Although PSO DC and GC are bad examples since they worked fine through Dial Up. And of course, since this isn't the same game, it doesn't apply.

And yeah, it's mostly due to this being the US. I live in a town, it's not that big. The area's outside of my town didn't get DSL until about 2 or 3 years after us. This also applies for the town over and it's surrounding areas. There's some places that are just out of reach of the services. It's cheap, but it's not as available as you'd think. If you're parents decided they want to live in the boonies, you're pretty much screwed as far as DSL goes. It really isn't as available as you'd think it'd be.