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REJ-
May 13, 2006, 12:41 PM
Are casts any good at being forces? Did they get enough MST to do decent damage with techs?

This also applies to the other races:

Are newmans any good at being rangers or hunters and are beasts any good at being forces and rangers?

When I say "good", I mean compared to humans who are balanced at everything. It would also help if you said how they compared in that class.

I know there was a thread that had this, but it only showed the stats for all of them. I want to know how they stack up in the actual game.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: REJ- on 2006-05-13 12:00 ]</font>

DikkyRay
May 13, 2006, 03:16 PM
well think about it. A cast is able to cast techs, a cast. Robot. It will probably be the equivelent of a ramar or humar on pso. The only useful techs will be healing and support

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 03:28 PM
So is it a waste to make a RAnewm? I don't want any techs... but I want high accuracy... and I will not use a cast... it's not my style.

oShojino
May 13, 2006, 04:17 PM
Well I dont think a Ranewm would be so bad, you wont have any techs and your damage would be kinda bad.. you should probably go human if you want to do ranger, but I suppose a ranewm wouldnt be so bad. Focasts are pretty decent, as are Fobeasts they would both be good supports later on in the game with decent damaging techs. Newmans make below par hunters though, the damage isnt that great and the EVP didnt do enough for me to notice.. I rarely dodged, and when I got hit it hurt.

Tycho
May 13, 2006, 04:34 PM
In the beta, the differences were still rather small. Keep in mind that now at level ~30 it might be completely different from what it would be like eventually though.

Kano-Okami
May 13, 2006, 04:42 PM
Hmm..
newmans would make pretty good rangers, if you think about it.
Sure, they don't have alot of power, but they have the second best ata as a race, so I wouldn't be suprised to see quite a few of them in the final game.

Fleece
May 13, 2006, 05:02 PM
Beast and casts will be the new FOmar, probably

Zephyr_
May 13, 2006, 05:32 PM
FOBeast is actually better at Force than Human IMO. Placing them in second, under newman, for force. Human and Beast have about the same MST, however, Beast has their natural high HP/DFP which can make them tanks of forces. So, they can take damage and give it, while newmans can only give the damage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. My own Beast (as a force) could dish out nice damage, as well as take alot of damage.

RAnewearl: I tried a RAnewearl on the last day of Beta. Got to quite a high level fast (lol 100k meseta). Newman is quite nice at Ranger it seems. Not the greatest ATP, but gun's high ATP, and PAs make up for that. And Newman ATA is nice.

RABeast: I made my main Beast a Ranger for quite some time. In my exprience it was nice. Sure, Beasts do not seem like they have alot of ATA. But I had no problems hitting.

FOCast: A good friend of mine played FOCast for the majority of the Beta (Beatrixkiddo). His Cast may not have dealt alot of damage with Techs, but, he could still heal with Resta. Not to mention his melee damage was good. So yeah, you could say Casts will be the new FOmar. However, meleeing with any force in PSU is like asking for pain ;p.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zephyr_ on 2006-05-13 15:34 ]</font>

PJ
May 13, 2006, 05:37 PM
Are melee Forces super much harder in PSU than in PSO? I'd like to make my main human character a melee FO

Itsuki
May 13, 2006, 06:51 PM
FObeast / FOcast: I played with Beatrixkiddo quite a bit aswell, and you can definately see the difference in ability to take damage. I might have to agree and say that human may infact be the worst FO. No race can compare to the damage of a FOnewearl(or newm for that matter), but beast and cast damage isn't anything to mock. A FOcast and a FObeast probably still have higher damage output then HUs of any race do, and FOcast and FObeast have atleast twice the survability of a FOnewearl. As I said in another thread, this makes them excellent combat healers and great support, and when it comes down to it, in the harder places, when there was only one FO, no matter what race you were, you became largely support.

RAnewearl: I also played RAnewearl the last day. Really, the damage wasn't bad at all. I was about equivalent damage, maybe slightly less, than what the hunters were doing. It wasn't laughable at all. Also, I never missed. I know I've seen other RA miss, though I rarely saw any RA. In theory, RAnewearl have huge accuracy and huge evade. Two things that are great for RA. Also, their damage wasn't horrible. About the only real negative was their low HP. I had like 514 at level 30 with level 1 RA. That was less what a level 30 FOnewearl had with level 10 FO. The RA would probably overtake the FO by the time they were equal levels, but it wouldn't be by much. They'd basically end up being a good, solid RA, with the survivability of a FO.

RAbeast: Didn't see any of these actually... but, I imagine their only real disadvantage would be their inability to equip the bigger guns. I believe i said in another thread that in theory, they'd probably be able to weild gun/melee better than any other race/class combination. I really think a RAbeast with a Mechgun/Saber would be really good, but I never had the chance to see one in action. So you know, when looking at it, human might make the worst RA aswell. Atleast thats my opinion. And its only an opinion. Atleast newman is undeniably the worst HU right now.

Melee Forces: Ugh~ I dunno about this. Melee forces are definately going to be harder than they were in PSO. Even a FObeast doesn't have that much ATP. Plus, the largest disadvantage is the fact that you can't cast techs while you have a melee weapon out. Umm... they'd probably be quite mean with a Bow. I must say, Beatrixkiddo had a mean bow. But the ATA of FO made even a FOcast miss decent amounts in Mizuraki A.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-05-13 16:54 ]</font>

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 07:07 PM
But as a RAnewm, will my MST be wasted since I really don't like techniques? I like healing magic but nothing more. Does that mean I should carry a cane around and assign it with a bunch of support techs? Also, would a RAnewm be able to melee?

MXdude
May 13, 2006, 07:14 PM
I dont think you can use canes/techs if your a RA

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 07:52 PM
Think isn't what I am looking for.... and nice avatar ;|

Itsuki
May 13, 2006, 08:49 PM
You can't use techs as a RAnewm. You can't use techs a HUnewm for that matter. But MST isn't where a RAnewms strengths lie. As I said, the high ATA and high evade are the strenghts. You may not deal a whole lot, but I think one of the most important utilities for RA are the status effects. RA make monsters have status effects the fastest. As long as you're consistantly hitting, you're consistnatly getting status effects. Leave the tanking to the HU and leave he damage to the FO.

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 09:03 PM
Status effects? Um, all I want is to be able to kill anything from a distance... how do you induce status effects and how do they work? I don't want to be a cast so what are the best RA types?

Itsuki
May 13, 2006, 09:10 PM
if you want to deal damage from a distance, RAbeast of RAcast are probably your best bets. Supposedly RAbeast ATA isn't so bad early on, but nobody knows how it will be later on.

And you equip bullets onto weapons, and every time you shoot, you have a chance to deal a status effect passively. Its not even something you cast, just every time you shoot. Ice froze things, lightning stunned things, fire did DoT (kinda like poison), and earth did virus (also like poison I think).

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 09:11 PM
Who can equip the biggest guns though? I don't want a cast... it's not my style.

Itsuki
May 13, 2006, 09:14 PM
Cast and Newm can equip the biggest guns since its based on ATA. Beast have low ATA and thus can't.

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 10:40 PM
Thank you.

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 11:13 PM
Well, I'm in the mood for a dualie post. Can a RAnewm equip a bow?

Itsuki
May 13, 2006, 11:31 PM
How bout you search some of the other posts for some of these questions. XD They've been answered several times.

But so far, as of the beta, only FO could equip bow.

Sgt_Shligger
May 13, 2006, 11:47 PM
The thing is.................. I'm a tad lazy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

ANIMEniac
May 14, 2006, 12:02 AM
ok so hold up...from my experience of PSO, Newmen have horrid ATA, and in part was a reason we never saw a RAnewm/earl. so was that changed or is it because of the low levels that no one could tell. i wanted to remake my old HUnewearl b/c i liked being my own backup force... will i need to alter that as well?

note: edited due to disgusting spelling

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ANIMEniac on 2006-05-13 22:39 ]</font>

Sgt_Shligger
May 14, 2006, 12:20 AM
I would help but.... I can't read your post... retype *shrugs*?

Itsuki
May 14, 2006, 12:28 AM
http://ev.dhs.org/skorpius/psucharacterchart.html

Judging from the beta, they tend to grow roughly the same. One race doesn't start low in one stat, and suddenly grow higher in another. For example, even in higher levels, beasts still have the highest HP and ATP, and the lowest ATA. TAP in this list is what we generally think of as MST. And the MST is something else.

As you can see:
ATA: Cast -> Numan -> Human -------> Beast. (longer dash equals bigger difference)
ATP: Beast --> Cast --> Human -----> Numan.
TAP: Numan ----> Human ----> Beast -> Cast.

Basically, Beast is the only race thats noticably different in ATA. ATP between say... a Beast and a Cast may not be all that noticably different, but between a Beast and a Human or a Beast and a Numan, its noticable. Also, Beast and Cast magic damage is for all intensive purposes the same.

EDIT: And you'll need to rethink that. HU can't cast tech, so you'd just be a HU with really low ATP, HP, and high ATA and EVP. Which doesn't quite make up for it. Newearls are the cutest race though >.> So you'll probably see me as a HUnewearl sometime.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-05-13 22:35 ]</font>

Saffran
May 14, 2006, 04:43 AM
Melee Forces: the main problem as fas as I understand is that a Fo cannot take damage - most of the ennemies of any given area can OHK them. (from what I read on the Closed Beta board)

REJ-
May 14, 2006, 08:06 PM
So from what I've heard, what I'm gonna assume is :
No matter what race you are, when you choose a class, your character's stats change to suit what that class does. After your stats change you'll end up being decently effective, so no race fails at any class.

Am I right? or am I still missing something?

Itsuki
May 14, 2006, 08:43 PM
you're pretty much right. The decently effectiveness means that most race/class combinations will play slightly different from eachother. No race effectively fails at being any class, there are just some races that are severely gimped at certain classes. Though right now, it is my opinion that the only race/class combination that is TRULY gimped is HUnewm / newearl.

A HUnewm / newearl isn't necessarily bad. All other HU are just far better.

chibiLegolas
May 15, 2006, 12:09 PM
As far as FOcasts go:
I was planning to make a FOcaseal with minor ranger/guns ability since I plan to play a support FO.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a FO could cast with the right FO weapon in one hand (assign j/z/or resta), and a pistol in the other. I know it was stated that you can't cast techs with a melee weapon out. But I haven't heard about any guns. And since a FO can only level up (I forgot the exact terminology of the skill) basically, 1 level in melee, 10 to ranged, and 20 to techs, I thought PSU support the idea of FO's with guns more than sabers.

Casts have decent HP to take damage if my s/d/j/z/resta range is low. So running up close to an ememy is a probability. But to make up for the caseal's natural low TAP/MST, I assume I'll run out of techs fast. So to reserve TP after j/z is on the enemy, it's time to switch over to a pistol and attempt to widdle them down in the back. And since casts have naturally high ata, I thought it's a nice bonus/insentive to use pistols over my wishes to attempt to make a melee force.

Any flaws in my thinking? Cause I'm still trying to get a grasp on the whole idea of restrictions of what you can or can not do with this new system. Another shame about a FOcaseal is that I'm probably not able to utilize my SUV (cast supers/specials)? Cause if I'm understanding it right, you gotta afford the ability once you've got the mesta and level and asign it to the guns that has the slot for it. And guns that do have those slots are most likely high ata requirements (meaning only RA can use them)? Maybe too early to tell in beta?

Anyways, thanks for any help.

mechatra
May 15, 2006, 12:21 PM
You're alittle off in your thinking.

first off - melee weapons are used in the right hand, pistols in the left. That's the reason why FO's can't melee with canes equiped. So yes, you can have a gun equiped and cast at the same time, just switching hands.

secondly, because you're a Cast it doesn't mean you'll run out of techs quickly, because TP has been done away with. One of the basic new things in PSU is PP or "photon points". This is essentially TP but it is bound to a weapon instead of a character. different weapons have different amounts of PP. It also recharges. Casts low technic ability mainly effects the strength of their technics.

Lastly, all Cast classes can use SUV's and you don't need a gun equiped at all. SUV's are used by equiping a special SUV unit into the "extra" slot of your armour (obviously not all armours have these slots), then when your SUV guage is full, you're all set.

Hope that answers your questions.

Zarbolord
May 15, 2006, 01:19 PM
chibiLegolas, I totally agree with you, I have the intention of making a FO/RAcast, don't forget that this type is specialised in Bow and Staff ype weapons, which makes a good mix between long range and casting. Also Androids have the capability to use SUV-weapons, so not only will you cast spells, but the damage recieved will be healed, so you can recieve more damage and so the SUV bar will rise and there you have the power attack. It's a fnatastic new combo, I'm making it my first character! Second a full traditional Newman FOrce, he he he...

Itsuki
May 16, 2006, 05:11 AM
You have to realize that SUV is almost completely useless on a FOcast. In order to charge an SUV, you need to get hit, as a FO, you should be taking every opportunity to NOT get hit. It kind of counteracts everything. Playing with Beatrixkiddo, I never saw him use an SUV, ever. He never got hit enough to use it.

Bow might be a viable option for a FOcast, but then again, it might not. Chances are, even as a FOcast, you'll deal more with techs then you will with a long bow. Of course, you'll probably be dealing more than a ranger or hunter because techs are just that good.

As mechatra said, TP is done away with. Every class can cast the same amount, since PP is bound to weapons, not characters.

chibiLegolas
May 16, 2006, 01:17 PM
Thanks for clarify'n everything guys. I can't wait to test out different battle stradegies once the game comes out. I know FO's should be avoiding incoming damage. But I personally never liked to play as a typical mage user in games with pure damage techs.
I enjoy the option of being a bit more reckless cause of s/d/j/z. I just hope I can specialize on those 4 techs and level them high enough though usage, to make me a decent ranger (and lube up everything for the rest of the party).
Besides, I just assume j/z would be a ranged area effect centered around you (like in PSO, but the info page didn't state the nature of the ranged effect).

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2355

If so, that does leave me to throw myself in the center of the battle field to maximize the head counts. I'm just counting on deband and the casts slightly higher HP (compared to the HP of newmans 'n humans) that I could survive such a stradegy. And at the mean time, take advantage of SUV use.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
I'll just have to see when the game comes out...

Besides, doesn't other radius effect techs centered on you pretty much encourages you to be surrounded by enemies? Otherwise, I can imagine FOnewearls specializing on more safe and linear techs than the previously mentioned ones.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2006-05-16 11:19 ]</font>

Axios-
May 16, 2006, 01:24 PM
Could someone go into more detail about RAnewms and RAnewearls? I was originally planning on going RAcast, but I find Newman rangers to be very appealing. However, I don't want to be shooting myself in the foot if I go with one.

I understand that they have good ATA, and that's, of course, a very good thing. With their high ATA, they should be able to use basically all the guns, right? However, they do have very low ATP and I don't know how much that folds into the damage of a gun. Are Humans going to be doing more damage but missing more often than Newmans? How much of a damage disparity exists between Casts and Newmans?

I know that this is still just early in the game and the differences are likely to be altered and increased in later levels, but more information always helps. Thanks~

Saner
May 16, 2006, 01:31 PM
On 2006-05-16 11:24, Axios- wrote:
Could someone go into more detail about RAnewms and RAnewearls? I was originally planning on going RAcast, but I find Newman rangers to be very appealing. However, I don't want to be shooting myself in the foot if I go with one.

I understand that they have good ATA, and that's, of course, a very good thing. With their high ATA, they should be able to use basically all the guns, right? However, they do have very low ATP and I don't know how much that folds into the damage of a gun. Are Humans going to be doing more damage but missing more often than Newmans? How much of a damage disparity exists between Casts and Newmans?

I know that this is still just early in the game and the differences are likely to be altered and increased in later levels, but more information always helps. Thanks~



what's funny is that official artwork of Nei from PSII mostly showed her wielding a large gun. but in the game she uses claws.

Newmans would look good wielding guns, just like all races look good as any class.

Axios-
May 16, 2006, 01:36 PM
Well, I know that any class should be able to handle any job so long as that's the player's goal. I know I can be successful as any char I choose. I just want some more info to help me make my decision between cast ranger and newman ranger.

Saner
May 16, 2006, 01:48 PM
On 2006-05-16 11:36, Axios- wrote:
Well, I know that any class should be able to handle any job so long as that's the player's goal. I know I can be successful as any char I choose. I just want some more info to help me make my decision between cast ranger and newman ranger.




well from what I researched, Casts are 'born' to be Rangers lol. well meaning they are the best at guns, I think, cause they have the best accuracy and decent power, right?

Newman Rangers may be more of a challenge, but not by much. as people have proven that Cast Forces are formidable, I'm sure Newman Rangers can take care of themselves and stuff.


One thing is for sure, I think Newman Rangers will be more rare to find than Cast Rangers, so if you really wanna be as unique as possible, you might enjoy being one of the rare Newman Rangers around.

From my calculations:

most Newmans might be Forces or Hunters.
less Newmans might be Rangers.



if you don't care about rarity/uniqueness, and prefer full potential, then Cast + Ranger might be your cup of tea. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Axios-
May 16, 2006, 02:18 PM
Yeah, uniquity is the whole reason that I am considering going Newman, as I really enjoy being in the minority in online games. Of course, casts are going to be the best rangers, but if the damage gap isn't too huge then I may be willing to sacrifice it just to be a little different. Anyways, I'm only planning on playing one character, and I want to make the most informed decision possible so I'm just staying on top of things. Thanks for the input ^.^;

Tuxedose
May 16, 2006, 02:23 PM
I am just gonna play the combination that I feel like at the time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif. Its so cool with newman melees and a best force would not be to boring either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

Saner
May 16, 2006, 03:05 PM
now I can't decide whether to start as a Human Hunter or Cast Hunter.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't want to focus on more than 1 thing at once. my characters won't switch classes, that would take up extra time building up their skills if I change their class.

I might max out one then use another character. but I haven't decided just yet.

one character and class will already take up an epic amount of focus and time to grow and progress at a pleasant pace. but I see myself leaning more towards Human Hunter. but you know eventually I will use other characters I create, so I shouldn't worry about which type I choose first.

hmm. Maybe I should choose Cast Hunter. lol. but I was a Cast most of the time in PSO. well that was a Cast Ranger and a world of a difference in character creation, so this is another story.

ah I'll just flip a coin or something lol.

Shrevn
May 18, 2006, 11:11 AM
^ so your talking unlimited casts as a fo?