Could someon explain item synthesis?

[Sgt_Shligger]

Please go in detail.

[Lyrise]

Item synthesis 101 - The process of taking the resources you find, buy, or refine, and creating something completely new, or an existing item with something changed (i.e. Elements).

How it works:

Step 1 (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/itemsynth.JPG): After 'feeding' your Partner Machine the proper recipe board, put into your storage the proper materials the recipe calls for. Note the big fat red Xs listed, those are telling you you don't have the proper materials in the personal storage (You just can't have the items on you).

Step 2 (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/verify.JPG): Verify with your PM that the ingredients necessary are there. Note the success rate for your item as well as the number of uses left that recipe can generate at the bottom.

Each type of item built will follow a standard formula that never changes: General items that are catalysts (not usable, like grinders, or resource refining with the exception of high level ore refining), consist of 1 item, which is usually the material itself, and labelled as such (Stuff like "Grinder C Parts".) Usable items (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/usable.JPG) (mates, atomizers, scape dolls)and high level ore refining (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/hlrefine.JPG) consist of 2 types of ingredients, food items (berries, truffles, etc), and acids for usable items; lower level ore and basic photons (yes basic, not elemental, or even the higher level ElPhoton)for high level refining. Armors (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/armorsynth.JPG) require 3 kinds of resources - photons, ores, and materials (such as nanocarbon, or orta-resin). Finally, weapons (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/weaponsynth.JPG), require the most of anything, filling all 4 resource slots, consisting of Photons, Metals, Ores and Wood.

Step 3 (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/timing.JPG): Wait the specified amount of time. Since it does take your PM time to create weapons like any blacksmith would, you gotta wait the time necessary. In the example here, there's 46 minutes left (Originally this weapon was 90 minutes). The stronger the item, the more time it takes. If it's an armor, it takes even more time. If its got a success rate of 100% (usable items and most forms of refining), it will be instant. Note that you can cancel it and get back your materials should you have to, however, if a considerable amount of time has passed, you may not be able to get back the materials USED. You can check on the status of your weapons, and how much resource has been used, anything unused will be returned to you, anything used has a success rate of retrieval. An example of how long 1 piece of armor can take (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/armortime.JPG).

Step 4 (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/pickup.JPG): Finalize synthesis, and pick up your items. I say finalize because even at this point, you can still cancel synthesis and make an attempt at getting your resources back. Picking up only applies to armors, weapons, and high level refining. This is essentially the moment of truth, time to see if your PM successfully created/refined the item or not. Your PM will also reiterate the success rate if anything, just to boast, or make an excuse (or at least that's what I like to think). If you fail (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/fail1.JPG), you'll end up with junk (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/fail2.JPG), like monomate or dimate (yes, that is a monomate that cost me 14500 meseta). If you succeed (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/success1.JPG), congratulations (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/success2.JPG).

On a humorous note, your PM doesn't know what the item is you're trying to build looks like. So you can't really blame it if you get something you don't want.

That's basically item synthesis in a nutshell.

Edit: One last thing I need to mention about this, since it affects those abyssmally low success rates on high end items: If you evolve your Partner Machine, your success rates WILL go up. Not just level them up, but it must undergo a complete transformation. My D-Slasher rate went up from 52% to 59% just through one evolution alone.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-05-14 12:41 ]</font>

[Sgt_Shligger]

So to make a weapon you need wood, metals, ores and photons? Where do you get these?

[Lyrise]

You can find them on the battlefield, refine them, or buy them from the synthesis shops. If you do choose to buy them, expect to pay way more than pretty penny for it. You're better off buying lower materials and refining them all, provided you have excess photons (basic photons cost 200 meseta a pop, that's really expensive, even for the lowest photon.)

[Sgt_Shligger]

Isn't there a source of photons besides shops? Like, can't you use an old weapon for photons? One more thing, can you or someone post a picture of a sucessful synthesis item? Do they look way different or just slighty?

[Lyrise]

As said before, you can find photons on the field as well. In the case of GraPhotons and MegiPhotons (light and dark element respectively), finding them is your only choice as you cannot purchase them.

In any case, here's a general idea what to look for.

Store bought armor, default guard line (or any element for that matter)is always green. (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/sline1.JPG)

My own synthesized fire shield line (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/icedslash.JPG), its in red, and IIRC, this one had 18% fire resistance. Also note the ice elemental Dual Slashers I'm using. Other beta players can tell you that in the beta, D-Slasher was not a weapon you could buy in stores; let alone one of ice element.

My Twin Saber Collection (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/rainbow.JPG) In beta, I had synthesized 1 of each element, and before you ask why. it was a personal goal I made for myself. Light isn't listed there because I wasn't strong enough at the time to wield it.

Light Twin saber (Ryoudelian) (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/lights.JPG) Also another weapon I built, another one you couldn't buy in stores at all, and made in light element. Also note the yellow arrow by my status meter. That is the effect of Zodiaride, a usable item that you'll synthesize, since it cannot be purchased, it raises evasion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-05-14 12:28 ]</font>

[Sgt_Shligger]

Thank you for the help... now all I need is the game.

[Tycho]

Nice synthology lesson, I think I'm starting to understand about the different kinds of synthesis ingredient types and their icons/names/uses now. I'm still confused about a few things though.

- Using the same ingredients, taken an item synthesis succeeds, will it always have the same stats/bonuses?
- When using higher-level neutral-element Photons like El/Im Photons to create melee weapons, will there be any difference from if you used lower-level neutral-element Photons (like the regular 'Photon') instead?
- It seems that for ranged weapons, casting weapons and guards, the variable ingredients are Woods/Acids rather than Photons. So in these cases, I take it the ingredient choice will not influence the created item's element? If anything at all, what influence could the ingredient choice have on the resulting items in these cases?

[ShadowDragon28]

Cool, very informative. I wonder why few Beta players had Item Synthed their greater sword with photons of other Elements. Did see lot's of players with sabers with different elemental photon colored blades thoough... ah well.

[Skye-Fox713]

Lyrise do those Light Twin saber (Ryoudelian) have actual blades cause they look like they do with the color and all. the look of light twin hand guns would be interesting. Also did you have to use very high quality mateirials to make those light twin sabers




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skye-Fox713 on 2006-05-14 15:13 ]</font>

[Lyrise]

On 2006-05-14 14:29, Tycho wrote:
Nice synthology lesson, I think I'm starting to understand about the different kinds of synthesis ingredient types and their icons/names/uses now. I'm still confused about a few things though.

- Using the same ingredients, taken an item synthesis succeeds, will it always have the same stats/bonuses?
- When using higher-level neutral-element Photons like El/Im Photons to create melee weapons, will there be any difference from if you used lower-level neutral-element Photons (like the regular 'Photon') instead?
- It seems that for ranged weapons, casting weapons and guards, the variable ingredients are Woods/Acids rather than Photons. So in these cases, I take it the ingredient choice will not influence the created item's element? If anything at all, what influence could the ingredient choice have on the resulting items in these cases?




Using the same resources, the only thing that can change, is element ratio. Lets say you build a fire laced weapon. The first time you build it, you may get 18%. The next time you build it, you will most likely get another value, say, 22%. This value just represents how much of your normal damage gets reduced or magnified, and it seems that it will never go above 30, or drop below 10.

As for higher level neutral photons, nobody has quite experimented yet. Obvious first guesses are that it may boost your overall stats and/or possibly PP management.

As for guns and staves, the only variant material, is wood. (keep in mind that wood comes in 3 forms, wood, ash, and ebon; and are related to how high up the scale they are in terms of stars) Photons don't matter, because your Barret-based Photon Arts change the elements of your guns/bows, and technique-based PAs can change the element of your staff/wands. I haven't actually played around with building projectile weaponry or magic weapons too much, but from what I have read, and what me and my friends have seen, the choice of wood can (it may not sometimes) affect the PP Capacity, the Accuracy (on firearms), and in some really odd cases, it can change the entire item output itself - I've witnessed one person use a recipe for a Cane, using NuAsh, and what came out was a Canera (Basically a different kind of staff of the same level). Of course, people including myself have reported this on the Beta boards, but no sign of whether its intentional in the game, or if it's a bug.

Guards still use photons as a variant, but higher level photons may or may not add to extra defense. In fact, the only thing we know about higher level photons is that you'll need them for extreme levels of refining (i.e. materials that are 7-10 stars, and can only be found, not bought).


Lyrise do those Light Twin saber (Ryoudelian) have actual blades cause they look like they do with the color and all. the look of light twin hand guns would be interesting. Also did you have to use very high quality mateirials to make those light twin sabers


Those are the look of the Youmei brand swords, which have not actual blades. It's just that for other elements, the glowing of the elemental photons makes it look more like a photon katana, and not a solid weapon, but oddly enough, much to benefits of style, the weapon trail will contrast with its current background, and sometimes you'll have a black photon trail, which IMO, is VERY cool. To touch on the other point, that is a 5 star weapon, I had to use fairly high quality items, (stuff that cost me 1800 meseta each lol) but what cost the most for me was the fact that it took 90 minutes for the PM to synthesize it, and I failed the first time (52% success rate FTL).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-05-14 18:43 ]</font>

[Skye-Fox713]

cool

[Kyuu]

Only thing I have to contribute is: Item Synthesis is sounding like a damn cool feature.

And thanks to those who took the time to lay it all out for us poor suckers who didn't get to play the closed beta.

[ANIMEniac]

2 questions.

1) will this come more naturaly as you play the game, like feading a mag did

2) is there a dual saber weapon class diferent from just sabers, like swords and a saber was? i hope not cause i wanted to dual 2 different sabers, a blue saber in 1 hand and a red saber in the other.

[Tycho]

On 2006-05-14 17:28, Lyrise wrote:
This value just represents how much of your normal damage gets reduced or magnified, and it seems that it will never go above 30, or drop below 10.

Hm.. It'll probably be possible to reach higher elemental limits for melee weapons in the retail version, assuming there will be more powerful versions of the elemental Photons too. It'd be interesting to see how much ingredients could influence the results in the final version.

By the way.. Does anyone know of a good generic term for the Carbons, Silica and Resin, to separate them from the real Woods (Woods, Ashes, Ebons)? The literal translation of the Japanese term used on Suimasen doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. x_x

[DarthTyranus]

I think I'm starting to understand Synthesis a little bit, probably know it a bit more once I start playing.

[Zarbolord]

O_o
I'm still completely confused.... I think I need visual-in-english-proof of all this, and try it by myself (I'm gonna get failures all the time at the start, lol!). Well... practice makes perfect... I'm craving for the game!

[DarthTyranus]

I'm craving for an Open Beta, that'll be a great idea for a topic.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-05-15 00:40, Tycho wrote:

Hm.. It'll probably be possible to reach higher elemental limits for melee weapons in the retail version, assuming there will be more powerful versions of the elemental Photons too. It'd be interesting to see how much ingredients could influence the results in the final version.

By the way.. Does anyone know of a good generic term for the Carbons, Silica and Resin, to separate them from the real Woods (Woods, Ashes, Ebons)? The literal translation of the Japanese term used on Suimasen doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. x_x




Hopefully not, I kind of like this elemental ratio as it is, it prevents people from doing too much, or too little damage. (i.e. Theoretically, with a 100% ratio weapon, you could do 2x the damage or none at all. Dark weaponry would be off the charts since it seems to work against EVERYTHING besides dark).

Also, I know it'll sound really confusing, better get used to it right now. The term used for classifying resources like Carbon, Sillica, and Resin is known as "Material".


1) will this come more naturaly as you play the game, like feading a mag did

2) is there a dual saber weapon class diferent from just sabers, like swords and a saber was? i hope not cause i wanted to dual 2 different sabers, a blue saber in 1 hand and a red saber in the other.

1. It most definitely will as you start to use it more and more. In fact, you're going to be feeding your PM, just like you would a mag, only difference is that instead of a limit of 3 items per 5 minutes, you're given a daily limit of some value (I think it was around 120 items a day?). No need to memorize recipes, they'll be written on the recipe boards for you. Just remember that all your materials need to be stored on your PM.

2. Dual saber is indeed a different weapon class altogether. I know what you're getting at, and believe me, its one thing I wanted to do. However, it would be really awkward and pointless if ST were to implement a left hand saber, as you could only use one saber at a time, and switching between weapons is a painless task. Although the plus side would be that you'd have 2 active weapons, and therefore both PP meters would be charging at the same time, allowing for some serious skill-based PAs to be spammed.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-05-15 07:47 ]</font>

[voxie]

Wooo... I do not get ANY of this thread. Nor wanna - seems like a lot to learn!

Looking forward to the full English translated version of PSU! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Tycho]

On 2006-05-15 07:02, Lyrise wrote:

Also, I know it'll sound really confusing, better get used to it right now. The term used for classifying resources like Carbon, Sillica, and Resin is known as "Material".

Thanks. Will use that for the 'PSUPedia' wiki that Ahzi made recently. ^ ^;

[DarthTyranus]

This is odd, I'm learning something new but I still don't have a clue about it.

[Numnuttz]

hahhahaah yea same here. man this is gonna be a trip went everyone gets how to do this.

[Saner]

its okay. you know, people can make a fortune synthesizing items and selling them.

or synthesizing items for others..... for a fee. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


you know it might be in fact cheaper having someone who understands and masters synthesizing, synthesize something for you and buying it from them,
instead of spending items and stuff that might turn out to end up with something that isn't worth the money AND resources you invested on making it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-05-16 13:38 ]</font>

[Kano-Okami]

Question:
1. Will you start out with a certain amount of recipes or none at all?
2. Do you need to buy additional recipes or will you be able to find them in missions or as a special reward(very likely)?
3. Can you experiment with potential materials & discover new synthesis methods or will you always need a recipe?

[Tycho]

On 2006-05-16 14:32, Kano-Okami wrote:
Question:
1. Will you start out with a certain amount of recipes or none at all?
2. Do you need to buy additional recipes or will you be able to find them in missions or as a special reward(very likely)?
3. Can you experiment with potential materials & discover new synthesis methods or will you always need a recipe?

The word 'recipe' implies it's something unlockable with infinite uses, which isn't the case. It's more like a 'core ingredient' for a certain craftable item, that has a certain limited amount of uses. So, no crafting without them either, and you don't start with any.

[Lyrise]

Hence the term "board". I refer to them as recipe boards before someone thinks otherwise (cardboard anyone?). But to answer the questions:

1. "Boards" are items, invoking limited use directions for your PM (a template if you will). Of course, since you start each character with limited items, a board is probably the last thing you want (also because you probably have nothing to make use of said board).

2. You can find the boards, you can buy the boards. I'll even bet there will be quests that give boards as a reward. More on finding boards, obviously the higher end stuff you won't be able to buy. Brings a whole new spin on finding rares - You find the board of a rare item; question is, can you successfully build the item?

3. You're always going to need a board to make stuff. And for synthesis recipes you use often, you're going to have to keep restocking them (like Board/Trimate - I refuse to buy a trimate from the store normally, why pay 2500 meseta for one, when you can build it for much less?.)


The word 'recipe' implies it's something unlockable with infinite uses, which isn't the case. It's more like a 'core ingredient' for a certain craftable item, that has a certain limited amount of uses. So, no crafting without them either, and you don't start with any.

A better way to explain a recipe board is more or less like a cake mix you can buy from a store. You're given some things to use, but you also need to provide some of your own. You can only use the mix so many times (in this case, once.) before you need to get another. And just like in game items and boards, said cake mix can fail. (Sometimes its your fault, some times its sheer bad luck, but that's not the point.) If it succeeds, you're happy. If not, you'll probably be fuming a little.

I dunno if people here will get this analogy, but it seems to work when I was explaining the process while playing the beta.

[Saner]

If it succeeds, you're happy. If not, you'll probably be fuming a little.



Now everything has become clear! Thanks! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Fleece]

Awwwwww crap i can't bake for shit.

[Kano-Okami]

Thanks Lyrise for clearing that up, and I believe that was a perfect analogy.
I'm beginning to grasp this synthesis process.
and as for your answer to my number 2.
you know those kind rares will be a wildgoose chase to make, but oh-so worth it.

[PhotonCat]

Eh, item synthesis is kinda absurd to me because you can fail at making something. If you have all the mats neccisary you should be able to make it right away with no failure. Taking 90 minutes to make something is dumb also.

But I guess all JP games have sucky crafting... FF11 is the other example...

They shoulda made it like WoW's crafting. That is the best.

[Kyuu]

You kiddin'? Crafting in WoW is terrible. The things you can make frankly stink compared to what you can find lying around, and the only good things require materials you can only get from the 40-man raid instances, which means you're pretty much stuck making stuff for your guild. The only crafting I enjoyed at all in WoW was engineering.

What's wrong with it taking some time? It prevents the market from getting flooded. And it's not like you have to sit there watching your PM; unless I'm mistaken, you can go out and do whatever while it's making the item. Also, the ability to fail is there so you have more incentive to level up your PM. Higher PM level = greater chance of success.

[ANIMEniac]

On 2006-05-16 21:08, PhotonCat wrote:
Eh, item synthesis is kinda absurd to me because you can fail at making something. If you have all the mats neccisary you should be able to make it right away with no failure. Taking 90 minutes to make something is dumb also.

But I guess all JP games have sucky crafting... FF11 is the other example...

They shoulda made it like WoW's crafting. That is the best.


to me it seems logical. think of depending on the quality and compadibility of said item it along with user error are all things that can effect the outcome of the final product. if u give a katana maker or armor maker low quality metal or bad tools, it might just come out to be JUNK.

and honestly, when was the last time anything of remote worth was produced instantly. even if i gave you 2 peices of choth and some fluff and asked you to make a pillow for me, it would take longer that "selecting the fluff and holding it over the 2 peices of cloth"
it just sounds like you are unable to have delayed gratification

[Lyrise]

It's also one of the biggest money sinks in game. I'm sure everyone here can agree with me when I say we don't want to see meseta to be worth as much as its PSO counterpart - worthless. If everyone could make these items one shot, meseta would have no semblance of worth, not even grinding could correct it, since even if you break it, you'd just make another item knowing that it will succeed, and grind it until you get the desired result.

And yes, you can indeed go out and do stuff while your PM is synthesizing your item. Heck, as long as you're not using the same recipe more than once, you can set in motion as many items to create as you want. For all you multi-taskers out there, it means you can potentially create 2 armors, and 3 weapons at the same time...provided the items are derived from separate boards.

[Shrevn]

So red boxes are gone? youre saying all the good items are to be crafted not found?...

[Kano-Okami]

No no no, thats not the case at all.
You can craft your own rares aswell as find rares. And with crafting, you'll need to find rare elements aswell.
It comes around full circle, so theres no need to worry.

[Lyrise]

You may not have to find rare elements though, you can always refine the higher end elements. However, that would require finding the proper refining board if you can't buy one (In beta, we could only buy up to 6 star refining boards.)

[PhotonCat]

You kiddin'? Crafting in WoW is terrible. The things you can make frankly stink compared to what you can find lying around, and the only good things require materials you can only get from the 40-man raid instances, which means you're pretty much stuck making stuff for your guild. The only crafting I enjoyed at all in WoW was engineering.

What's wrong with it taking some time? It prevents the market from getting flooded. And it's not like you have to sit there watching your PM; unless I'm mistaken, you can go out and do whatever while it's making the item. Also, the ability to fail is there so you have more incentive to level up your PM. Higher PM level = greater chance of success.

What I meant was that I like how in WoW you only need to make one item to get a skill up and it only takes like 5 seconds max to make an item and you never can "fail" it and lose mats.

In FF11 and EQ2 it was way too much of a money and time sink and those two games are dependant on tradeskills. If you don't have a high crafting skill you have nothing and no money. I hated that. I rather all the good stuff be drops if they're gonna make crafting so hard.

[Alisha]

On 2006-05-20 13:01, PhotonCat wrote:

You kiddin'? Crafting in WoW is terrible. The things you can make frankly stink compared to what you can find lying around, and the only good things require materials you can only get from the 40-man raid instances, which means you're pretty much stuck making stuff for your guild. The only crafting I enjoyed at all in WoW was engineering.

What's wrong with it taking some time? It prevents the market from getting flooded. And it's not like you have to sit there watching your PM; unless I'm mistaken, you can go out and do whatever while it's making the item. Also, the ability to fail is there so you have more incentive to level up your PM. Higher PM level = greater chance of success.

What I meant was that I like how in WoW you only need to make one item to get a skill up and it only takes like 5 seconds max to make an item and you never can "fail" it and lose mats.

In FF11 and EQ2 it was way too much of a money and time sink and those two games are dependant on tradeskills. If you don't have a high crafting skill you have nothing and no money. I hated that. I rather all the good stuff be drops if they're gonna make crafting so hard.



you dont have to craft in ffxi but the richest players are typically crafters or people that do a lot of bcnm/ksnm/assault missions

[_Tek_]

So now we're going to have droprates for certain materials, and then success rates for certain items to be syntehsized.

holy crap, I bet there'll be stuff harder to get than the TJS.

[Inazuma]

even if you find the tsumikiri, you would have to risk losing the item if you wanted to grind it ><

for that reason alone, i bet having a perfect char in psu will be at least 10 times more difficult than in pso.

[Witchblade56]

I have to agree with Inazuma's input.

Also think of the gratification you get for personally being able to bling your character with items that you crafted. Ya alot of my gil was gotten from crafting and bcnming. Also having a good guild that can get you your much desired items is a must. I have been very fortunate in FFXI to have a great guild/linkshell that has helped me to attain some of the nicest items you can get in game for a melee job.

People balk at the idea of having to spend a great deal of time to get your character where you want it. Think about this too, you would really have to have a good group of friends in a guild to get things you wanted together. Say you get a group of 12-14 people together. Then you all decide to make certain nights to go and just farm/kill bosses for certain items for crafting. I can see the possibility of having to work together to get everyone an item they want.

As for myself i really want my PM to be top notch so i can craft goodies for my friends. I spent alot of time in GC PSO leveling mags and either trading them to people for rares or giving them as gifts to my really good friends. I can see it as a boon for people who just level their PMs and craft. They can then level their characters at their leisure after gaining some wealth and a decent venue to obtain rares for their selected classes in game. I didn't get rich over night in FFXI it took me 2.5 years to finally get what i wanted as far as an income. I plan on playing PSU for a long time to come when it's finally in my xbox/ps2 so i have long term goals in mind for when i play http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[_Tek_]

hacking will fix that right up

lol

[_xX_Frosty_Xx_]

Can you use a board more than one time?

[Voltage]

Does luck have any effect on the outcome of your synth?

I'm waiting on level 3 luck myself before removing an armor from my pm with a 17% success rate. Is this the right thing to do with a success rate this low?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voltage on 2007-01-26 08:53 ]</font>