What is the purpose of rangers now?

[Sgt_Shligger]

In PSO, rangers didn't have much of a purpose compared to forces... they just dealed less damage than hunters at a longer range. In PSU, do rangers have purpose because forces deal all the damage now and hunters just keep enemies distracted...

[avai]

I guess if you cant play as a hunter or force well you can stand in the back and shoot. They may also get guns that would say freeze the enemy making it easier for the hunters. Plus they can easily shoot the same enemy that a hunter is attacking for extra damage.

[Kano-Okami]

Their purpose is to attack from long range and support cover-fire for Hunters who are under constant attack in the fray. A calvary, if you will.
Forces play a roll as spellcasters and stat boosters, best used for support/long range.
The advantage rangers have overy Forces is that the weapons they use do damage based on an enemy's physical defense rather then elemental defense (unless the gun has an elemental attribute, then its the latter of the 2).
Besides, who else is better at taking down aerial baddies?

[Inazuma]

you kidding? i thought rangers killed faster than hunters in pso. maybe it will be the same for psu.

the main way they seem to balance the chars is offense & defense. hunters have the best defense but worst offense. rangers are in the middle for both. and forces have the worst defense but the best offense. psu seemed to follow the same balance plan from what i played.

actually, the difference between hunter and force was a lot bigger in psu. hunters had a LOT more hp than forces, like twice as much. but the forces would kill twice as fast as the hunters. so it still balances.

[Tycho]

On 2006-05-21 10:37, SgtShligger wrote:
In PSO, rangers didn't have much of a purpose compared to forces... they just dealed less damage than hunters at a longer range.If you're talking about Blue Burst, you're completely off. In that version, they were kind of like Hunters, except with more ATA and better weapon options.
If you're talking about the Dreamcast versions, you're right. Let's hope Sonic Team is not making any of the balancing mistakes they made in the past though.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-05-21 10:54, Tycho wrote:

On 2006-05-21 10:37, SgtShligger wrote:
In PSO, rangers didn't have much of a purpose compared to forces... they just dealed less damage than hunters at a longer range.If you're talking about Blue Burst, you're completely off. In that version, they were kind of like Hunters, except with more ATA and better weapon options.
If you're talking about the Dreamcast versions, you're right. Let's hope Sonic Team is not making any of the balancing mistakes they made in the past though.




Let's say I was talking about the GC version.

[Bastille]

My friend who played a ranger was equal with my friends hunter and my force on the GCN version so yeah <_<

[Axios-]

Even so, in the GC version, I'd say that Rangers did the most damage. My opinions aside, Hunters, Rangers, and Forces all always had a purpose, and I don't see why PSU would be any different.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-05-21 11:20, Axios- wrote:
Even so, in the GC version, I'd say that Rangers did the most damage. My opinions aside, Hunters, Rangers, and Forces all always had a purpose, and I don't see why PSU would be any different.



In the GC version of PSO, a ranger did way less damage than a force of equal level... when you get to ultimate I am talking about. The hunter did more damage too but the only thing the ranger did was sit back and not get hit.

[Axios-]

On 2006-05-21 11:28, SgtShligger wrote:


On 2006-05-21 11:20, Axios- wrote:
Even so, in the GC version, I'd say that Rangers did the most damage. My opinions aside, Hunters, Rangers, and Forces all always had a purpose, and I don't see why PSU would be any different.



In the GC version of PSO, a ranger did way less damage than a force of equal level... when you get to ultimate I am talking about. The hunter did more damage too but the only thing the ranger did was sit back and not get hit.



That's not true, but I'm not going to get into a PSO debate. I'm sure that in PSU, every job will have a strong purpose, but we'll just have to wait the see it played out so we can nail down the specifics.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-05-21 11:30, Axios- wrote:


On 2006-05-21 11:28, SgtShligger wrote:


On 2006-05-21 11:20, Axios- wrote:
Even so, in the GC version, I'd say that Rangers did the most damage. My opinions aside, Hunters, Rangers, and Forces all always had a purpose, and I don't see why PSU would be any different.



In the GC version of PSO, a ranger did way less damage than a force of equal level... when you get to ultimate I am talking about. The hunter did more damage too but the only thing the ranger did was sit back and not get hit.



That's not true, but I'm not going to get into a PSO debate. I'm sure that in PSU, every job will have a strong purpose, but we'll just have to wait the see it played out so we can nail down the specifics.



It's not a debate, it's a fact. Techniques from level 80 forces were more powerful, faster, and longer range than a ranger could ever do with a gun.

[Tycho]

(http://aerfen.free.fr/rly/ilold.jpg)
At low levels Forces were more effective. Most people would not quite consider level 80 high... if you have played online, you would probably know what I mean. Because eventually, and much to my dismay, Rangers did win out.

[Bastille]

A level 200 ranger with their atp and ata maxed with a couple god/battles and a deadly shot type weapon can level a room pretty damn fast

[Blitzkommando]

Funny, I thought it often was the other way around where Rangers were so overpowered that there was neither a point to have a hunter or force in a game. I remember some of my fastest games with least deaths were in four ranger games. If anything, even though I would hate to see it happen, rangers need to be more balanced out with hunters and forces. They were simply so overpowered that they simply slaughtered everything too quickly to allow the forces, but especially hunters, to tag the enemies.

[therealAERO]

In PSU forces do a shit load more damage than hunters and rangers.

[Alisha]

from what ive seen in videos handguns do horrible damage. so using a handgun on a boss as opposed to having a ranger with more powerful guns hardly seems efficient.

[Nuclearranger]

Remember if PSU is anything like PSO Rangers were quite weak at lower lvs and didnt show there true power untill 180s thats when rangers pulled ahead 10 fold. Rangers might do craptaskular dmg at lv 1 but say at 180 perhaps (if max is 200 again) there atp will finaly reach a higher amount to bring the rangers ahead (ranger+power>no range+ slightly more power) Not to mention that RANGERS HAD mecguns dont forgit that they can do easly 1000 dmg per shot (charge) x9 with mec. Even without charge i do 500-600 with yas9k/GMs. Also rangers get all there atp used because they never miss rangers could and can do charge charge charge. hunters most of the time wont do that because they will miss...

[physic]

i dont know what weakling hunters you were playing with rangers never had anything on my hunter in any pso game. the only time they seemed superior is with spread needle, and that wasnt so much dmg as much as speed. God battles dont stack btw.
rng was able to hit many enemies at once or from far away without taking much damage was their main bonus. but with a sword i always outdamged them easily, just they could hit stuff while you were still running.
In psu seems rng have a similar role, but i think this time some specials will be ranger only, like paralyze debuffs freezing etc. and they have the added untouchable aerial enemies, and far targeting

[Bastille]

I only ever managed to get one so I never knew if they stacked or not <_<

[REJ-]

Rangers always had a good role in PSO (and were a bit over-powered). Freezing enemies, cover fire, taking out the bad enemies before they could OHK the force.

It'll be similar in PSU.

[Jozon]

I hate to see Hunters be tanks, do we do a poor amount of damage compared to forces, or slightly less, very poor in comparison, and would the nanoblast be able to make up for some of that defecit.

[physic]

forces do insane dmg from what ive seen, huners do decent dmg rngs prolly decent to depending on weapon. Forces do way more than other people though

[_Tek_]

also the point is they get big guns, hunters don't.

that's also an aspect of gameplay if you just love big guns.

[Tycho]

On 2006-05-21 14:22, physic wrote:
i dont know what weakling hunters you were playing with rangers never had anything on my hunter in any pso game. the only time they seemed superior is with spread needle, and that wasnt so much dmg as much as speed.
You should play with Kef some time.


On 2006-05-21 14:53, _Tek_ wrote:
that's also an aspect of gameplay if you just love big guns.Nuh-uh. Whether or not you like cannon-sized guns, it's aesthetics, not gameplay. >_>

[Fleece]

Forces do damage a lot but they if they get hit they take a LOT of damage, Hunters can take a lot of damage and deal an average amount of damage but hit a lot faster than Forces

[Sgt_Shligger]

Well this is a good argument about PSO rangers and PSU rangers abilities but my question hasn't been answered.

If this info has served me right then my guess is that rangers will be covering hunters and inducing status effects.

[Kyuu]

That's right, Shligger... rangers have the ability to very quickly shoot things up with elemental rounds (guns are no longer comboed, so they can fire continuously, with only the gun's PP to worry about) and not only deal decent damage to many enemies, but also to induce freezing and paralysis (which helps out hunters a whole lot) as well as burning (for some damage over time).

[NightHour13]

I'd also like to add that guns in PSU can shoot fast now with no "delay" like in PSO. The 3 combo thing has gone out the window, so i think rangers can deal a crazy amount of damage. While their recharging, i think the hunters will now run in and finish them off, while forces support both and nuke the enemies. Thats how i see it happening, although im just the monkey king and i have no idea really.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NightHour13 on 2006-05-21 19:55 ]</font>

[physic]

well basically in pso/u i think unless you re in challenge mode every jobs job is to kill as much as they can. If you want to think about optimal performance, i would gues sthey prolly do some type of covering fire essentially allowing teh hunters to get hit less, while dealing dmg

[_Tek_]

On 2006-05-21 15:39, Tycho wrote:
Nuh-uh. Whether or not you like cannon-sized guns, it's aesthetics, not gameplay. >_>


yeah that's the word.

[Sgt_Shligger]

My ranger will be supreme support guy... elite.

[Zarbolord]

My Ranger will be FO/RA, and he'll be an android. I'll mostly use the capabilities of fire/light spells and bows http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Fleece]

I'm going Hunter, my Best Mate is going Ranger I hear he wants to dual wield pistols, he'll probably use dual mechs if they're in the full game (I know they wern't in the beta so dont correct me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

[Zarbolord]

Rangers are done for long range, I agree that forces kinda take the role but still rangers at full capacity will rock, if you ask me...

[REJ-]

Do spells go for a longer range than rifles?

Even if they do, Rangers can shoot faster than Forces can cast, so they'll probably still be better at long range than Forces.

[Numnuttz]

i think certain guns had better range than spells . dont qoute me on this though, it just a guess.

[Axios-]

On PSO, I think Resta and Zonde could clearly beat a rifle. Everything else, though, seemed pretty close or less.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Axios- on 2006-05-22 20:30 ]</font>

[_Tek_]

Plus RA's get mechs, which witht he right stats behind them can be very deadly.

[Kyuu]

Aren't mechs for any class though, like in PSO? Or did they limit them to rangers only in PSU?

[_Tek_]

I think its for RA class only now.
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=111350&forum=20&199

[Alexandrious]

On 2006-05-21 10:50, Inazuma wrote:
you kidding? i thought rangers killed faster than hunters in pso. maybe it will be the same for psu.

the main way they seem to balance the chars is offense & defense. hunters have the best defense but worst offense. rangers are in the middle for both. and forces have the worst defense but the best offense. psu seemed to follow the same balance plan from what i played.

actually, the difference between hunter and force was a lot bigger in psu. hunters had a LOT more hp than forces, like twice as much. but the forces would kill twice as fast as the hunters. so it still balances.



Unskilled hunters...maybe. lol

[physic]

forces got huge numbers, but i really dont knbow how thier pp was, maybe thy did that in bursts and had to stand around regening pp after awhile. But Ra in the vids usually did less than the hu i saw, so i doubt they are the middle road of damage.

[Pillan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like everything does balance out pretty well.

Forces do the most damage, but techniques are slower than bullet shots and sword swings. They also can't take a hit...

Hunters do slightly less than forces, but attack more often so the damage they deal per second becomes slightly higher than that of a Force. Also, as a consequence of this additional power, they receive the most damage.

Rangers do the least damage, but they also have range, so they receive the least from enemy attacks. Also they can provide additional support with status infliction abilities (I'll assume the Frozen Bullet on a spread has a higher chance of freezing than Rabarta).

It seems this game will be what PSO was meant to be.

[fumatanera]

i like how every other post says that a different class does insane damage while the other classes lacked. ":P no one agrees...

any hoo, i hope they make aerial enemies more of a presence in PSU to make a ranger's abilities more essential. RA takes the high road while the HU takes the low, and the FO takes the middle. sweet destruction

[Pseudo]

"I find this Topic most Blasphemous" XD

I will always be a ranger no matter what, picking off the monsters from a safe distance is part of my playing style. I've seen so many Hunters dash into a group of monsters and getting K'Oed within seconds, The new sniper mode will work well with my style. In PSO i was one of the elite and most deadliest of RaCasts and often killed things long before the hunters got even close.

Sure we rangers dont have high atp but with a constant level of damage and high accuracy coupled with a great Weapon a Ranger can devastate an entire army without taking any damage from Long Range.

[Fleece]

From what i've seen on the vids there are a few aerial enemies that can only be shot in first person mode.



Oh and lvl 140 + rangers were the buisness, I just loved my Zanba so RA's can go to hell.

*Goes on a berserker rage*



*Dies*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fleece on 2006-05-23 07:36 ]</font>

[BestRAmarEver]

Don't forget that the Beta of PSU was about the equivalent of Beta for PSO. By that I mean, it's like comparing the classes only by how good they are in Normal mode. More than likely the forces will lose out on power later on in the game, and I'm sure hunters and rangers will be better towards end-game.

So bickering about this is stupid.

[zandra117]

The original pso for windows beta only allowed you to go into the lobby and when you went into a game you appeared in the forest instead of in town. when you beat the dragon you auto teleported back to the lobby. you weren't allowed to go to pioneer 2. Yes, I played the original pso pc beta.

[Jozon]

to waste a space in a party, to make casts feel wanted........wait, ranger lovers are here........ummm........exit, stage right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif I think they probaby status ailment stuff up and then hunters and FO's jack them up.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Ya, in that beta you also couldn't take a hit, god mode.

[zandra117]

On 2006-05-25 08:30, Jonathan_F wrote:
Ya, in that beta you also couldn't take a hit, god mode.


yeah, when you died you instantly were revived like you had an infinite amount of scape dolls.

[fumatanera]

what does everyone have against status effects? i would much rather be freezing, confusing, poisoning, etc. monsters all day than doing, OMFG111 INSANE L337 DAMAGE!!! WOOOT WOOOT11 blek that's why hacked weps spread so fast, no one wants to actually play the game they just want to be able to clear an area in 5 minutes without taking any damage, and claim that they are so good at the game.
FOs and RAs will be the most challenging and most fun to play, even more so depending on the race you choose.

[Zarbolord]

Each race, and job, give different effects/capabilities. So why asking for so much? Remember that Forces aren't pure rangers because they have to heal and cure, boost and reduce all the time, so they won't get too much into the actual Ranger type attack ways.

[Sev]

The point of all the classes it to do damage in the end. It varies in the ways that it's dealt, but they all help the cause. Even if it's just freezing and enemy, a ranger would be giving the Hunter the ability to go full out without worrying about being hit, while the Force doesn't have to worry about healing the Hunter. In the end, the overall offense and defense of the party is raised.

Every piece of the party counts at this point.

Plus depending on the weapon you use, you do higher damage. It won't be higher then the one shot of the Force, but all the damage will add up. Rangers should do the most Damge Over Time from Ranger, while Force's would have spiked damage right?

[Ryna]

I tried playing the Ranger class with a Human for a few hours on a couple of occasions. I used low-to-mid level equipment.

The impression I got while playing the Ranger class is that they are supposed to sit and support the hunters/rangers. You have to play conservatively. Otherwise, you'll run out of PP on your guns. If you go all-out, you can do some decent damage. However, you'll have to bring a bunch of extra guns along.

The HP for Rangers was only marginally better than a FOs. So, meleeing shouldn't be their primary method of attack.

Here are my impressions of the gun-types that were available:

Rifles - They have decent range and each shot does a significant amount of damage. There was a bit of a delay before you could fire another shot.

Shots - A slow weapon that allows you to hit multiple targets for a small amount of damage. The one I used only allowed you to hit three enemies at a time. Also, the range really wasn't that good and you can't go into FPS mode with these weapons (as far as I can remember).

Machine Guns - A rapid fire gun that allows you to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. These things will eat up a lot of PP. Like the shot, you can't go into FPS mode. The machine gun seems to be best used in close-quarter combat.

Handgun - The gun that everyone can use. They have average range and below damage output. Handguns seem to only be useful on Rangers if you've run out of PP on your main weapons or you are using it combination with a melee weapon.

Dual Handguns - Dual Handguns seem to fill a gap between the Machgine Guns and other gun-types. They allow you to hit an opponent with multiple handgun bullets over average distances.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-05-25 10:38, Ryna wrote:
The impression I got while playing the Ranger class is that they are supposed to sit and support the hunters/rangers. You have to play conservatively. Otherwise, you'll run out of PP on your guns. If you go all-out, you can do some decent damage. However, you'll have to bring a bunch of extra guns along.




The gun PP meters... I don't fully understand it. When your gun is out of PP, can it be refilled easily or should you just get another gun out?

[Axios-]

I think I heard that PP restorative items are quite expensive so during the beta, it was more cost efficient to carry around multiple guns. However, later in the game, you'd have more money so you could handle the PP items, and once we get into rare weapons, you probably won't have 2 or 3 of each rare you want to carry.

I'm not sure about this; it's been a while since I read anything about PP restoration.

[_Tek_]

And when you have a weapon equipped it slowly regained PP.

I'm not sure about unequipped ones though, they'd be slower I guess.

[Alisha]

it sounds like rangers play in a way that few rangers played in pso

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-05-25 14:20, Alisha wrote:
it sounds like rangers play in a way that few rangers played in pso



Which is?

[physic]

probably using primarily teh specials of their weapons. but that was STs fault because in early games specioals all sucked, or rarely happened, except for teh spread needle. And Elemental specials always sucked. also providing covering fire, IE keeping side mobs busy, hitting main mobs to interupt them.

[Kupi]

On 2006-05-25 15:42, SgtShligger wrote:


On 2006-05-25 14:20, Alisha wrote:
it sounds like rangers play in a way that few rangers played in pso



Which is?



Emphasizing status effects, I would suppose. Most Rangers in PSO (the ones I knew, at least) went for the idea of "damage at range" unless they had a Spread Needle or Frozen Shooter, and really, how many of them did?

[Punishment]

Forces have the ranged power in PSO but you forget the fact that they can not keep on unloading due to TP when the rangers had the range to fight tougher mobs with distance and a Hunter could just run up there and attempt to beat the crap out of it but they were limited with there spells. So Forces to sum it up were DD/Suppport (Jellen/Zalure) While Hunters were "Tanks" they could take hits and dish them out while keeping monster distracted and the Ranger could sit back there Sniping/Unloading bullets with mechguns for straight DD or rifle for range / pistols moderate range moderate DD then there were the Shots with low DD/multiple targets next comes the Bazookas with HIGH DD slow firepower and good range. ~My memory cards sucks Decided to get corrupted so I lost my lv.111Force 60+Hunter and my items Good luck all! w~

[Nuclearranger]

Baceicaly if PSU is the same as PSO the best team would be 5 rangers and 1 FO UNLESS you needed one tank seeing as how 6 players loosens up the best team you MIGHT want one HU now not to ruin any fun for people but if psu is the same as pso rangers will own all.

[Punishment]

FFXI PWNS~~~sry lol

[physic]

Here we go with rangers were unstoppable again, rangers were weaksauce in pso my hucast was running around doing 1.5k dmg on crits offline and 1.2k crits online. The only thing that rangers had is range. teh ability to not get hurt while attacking, but a skilled hunter didnt get hurt that much either.
The only way rangers seem super strong is endgame when everyone is super strong, and they are in fact weaker but they just dont have to walk up to people to do it.

[Saner]

Rangers are a beginner class due to their safe range advantage while still dealing decent damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[MXdude]

Its not all about the damage physic...... And saying a ranger is a beginner class is down right wrong, I met so many people online who didnt play them right >.> they just wanted damage.

[physic]

its not about damage, but if your claiming they are teh most powerful, then your talking about dmg. I realize that rng can disable opponents with para, kill with hell, steal tp etc because their high ata allows them to use specials, and at a distance where it doesnt kill you, as well as being able to attack without taking much dmg. But your best party was hardly 3 ra and a fo. Id bring up challenge but some may say the ra dont get good till much later with teh right weapons, but ehhh hu can do some serious stuff as well.

[Axios-]

People underrate the advantage of range in PSO. Even if at low and mid levels, sure, it may not have a huge impact for the team, but at later levels where a hunter or a ranger can kill the monster in one combo or less, the ranger gets the kill. And that isn't just their benefit, it also speeds up the team as a whole.

I'm not saying that rangers are the end all of teams. In fact, hunters and forces are still just as useful. You can be useful and powerful no matter your class. All you have to do is just play the game. Ranking of classes in terms of who's best and who's worst is just retarded. The matter is entirely subjective and opinionated. You're never going to get people to change their opinions just as they're not going to change yours. One person says hunters are the best, another person says rangers are the best, and still a third person says forces are the best. That's fine! Play the game and play it well, and you won't be wrong. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

[Saner]

Ranger IS the class for beginners, they are the class least likely to get touched in combat. and their range has the advantage.

it's much easier to run away and shoot from a distance than striking and evading at close range.

and rangers can usually take more hits than a force, so their survival advantages are enough to recommend that class to beginners who are no good at melee or using techs properly.


if a beginner can't survive as one, well then there is no hope for them as a hunter or force. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Axios-]

Saying that rangers are a class for beginners demeans the ranger class. I think you mean to say that rangers are the most beginner-friendly.

I half agree with that. In terms of survivability, yes, they are more friendly to beginners. That's why when friends of mine wanted to play for the first time, I recommended the ranger class. However, in terms of attacking, hunters are more beginner friendly. People don't have a problem with running up to a monster and slashing, but a lot of beginners have a hard time aiming and an even harder time switching targets quickly.

And once again, please say that they're "beginner-friendly" rather than "for beginners."

[Numnuttz]

yea rangers were noob friendly. all you had to do is pull the trigger of teh gun and boom target hit. but now i think theve become a bit more advacne in psu since they seem to have lost some of teh abilities from pso. for example the auto aim is gone now. also teh fact that guns lose pp now. because of these reasons i think that teh ranger class is no longer for noobs but instead for more advaced players since they have to worry about actually hitting the target and if teh gun is about to run out of pp

[DraginHikari]

I used a ranger quite a bit in PSO though I hardly say I'm an expert but I found RAs easier in alot of sense because of the distance factors as well as unlike PSU there was not really any way of limiting the about the range shots which made long range weapons kinda broken in some ways. The PP for guns, lose of auto aim, and no combing necessary kinda changes the whole aspect of how Ras are handled here rather then on PSO.

Also more then anything I was kinda glad for the change in machine guns... I personally though mechs were extremely overpowered in PSO.