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DavidNel
May 21, 2006, 08:12 PM
I was looking through the topics, and I think I read something about a low level cap. Can someone provide me with more details.

PS: I'm sorry if this has been asked before!

Axios-
May 21, 2006, 08:13 PM
No one knows the character level cap, but I believe that it was stated that the job level cap was 20. That may be a bit low, but we'll just have to see how it plays out.

Ryna
May 21, 2006, 08:14 PM
The character leveling cap for closed beta was 30. It will be higher once the game is released.

Strider_M
May 21, 2006, 08:25 PM
The Cap could be 100 and raised to 200 when PSU Episode II comes out for Nintendo Wii which would include Battle and Challenge modes...

No! No! I'm kidding! But that might be the case granted that's how PSO worked out!

Axios-
May 21, 2006, 08:37 PM
Even though the character level cap was 30 in the beta, wasn't the job level cap 10? I think I heard that hitting 10 wouldn't be difficult, and if that's true, then the level 20 cap is concerning.

Tystys
May 21, 2006, 08:52 PM
I think they said Job level cap would be level 20.
Not sure about regular level though. I'm thinking a little bit over 50 atleast.

OutlawX
May 21, 2006, 08:54 PM
Wait! hold the phone! Theres a beta version of PSU? If so, where can I buy it?

Axios-
May 21, 2006, 08:55 PM
Erm...it had better be a hell of a lot higher than 50 if people reached 30 before the beta ended.

Edit: It was a Japanese closed beta that ended a while ago. Quite a few people on this forum were in it so that's how we've gotten quite a lot of information.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Axios- on 2006-05-21 18:56 ]</font>

Ancient
May 21, 2006, 08:58 PM
Actually Strider might have the right idea...Sega could be planing another EpII/V.II type thing for PSU maybe a year or more after the original release in order to expand upon the game once its got a solid player base. It's a proven, workable system.
Would I be silly to say that I look forward to an expansion for the game...before the game is even released?

Skye-Fox713
May 21, 2006, 09:00 PM
you can't it was a closed beta for japan only and some psoworld members managed to get on and give us feed back also i beleve it would be best to check the new intervew there was somthing said about the job lv cap was 20 and the character lv cap was probably going to be 200 again, but look in to the newer intervew and it might answer your q's & a's.

TheStoicOne
May 21, 2006, 09:08 PM
On 2006-05-21 18:58, Ancient wrote:
Actually Strider might have the right idea...Sega could be planing another EpII/V.II type thing for PSU maybe a year or more after the original release in order to expand upon the game once its got a solid player base. It's a proven, workable system.
Would I be silly to say that I look forward to an expansion for the game...before the game is even released?



If this happens they better damn well let us transfer characters!(GeTS PISSED, and starts smashing stuff)

OutlawX
May 21, 2006, 09:12 PM
Geeze all that work would be for nothin! That would suck!

Tystys
May 21, 2006, 09:13 PM
Well, releasing an EP II would be the only logical thing considering the fact that they want to release Challenge and Battle mode...and considering they're not going to be releasing major patches with the game, that's actually a great prediction.

Strider_M
May 21, 2006, 09:15 PM
Well aren't the characters saved on the Server side?!

Axios-
May 21, 2006, 09:17 PM
Yes, they're server side, and as long as it's still the same game at the core, they should let you transfer. If you can play your char on your PC and then play it on your PS2 and back, then logic says that updating with a new version should be fine.

NightHour13
May 21, 2006, 09:35 PM
Hmm, i dont think the level cap will be so low. Certainly not if the Beta players reached level 30 before Beta's end. If they have the level cap THAT low, then it's gunna be hell to get to the top level.

Inazuma
May 21, 2006, 10:01 PM
it only took me 30 hours to reach level 30 in the beta, and i wasnt rushing to do it. i seriously doubt 100 is the max cuz then everyone would be 100 in a few weeks. i bet it works out exactly like pso, and we can get to level 200.

as for the type max level, reaching level 10 for me took much longer than reaching char level 30. maybe 60 or so hours, i dont really remember. having it max at 20 still prob wont take too long, but trying to max all 3 types at 20 would take quite a while i imagine.

and then there are the photon arts, which have levels of their own. in the beta they maxed at 20. i bet 30 is the max in the full ver. i was able to max every tech except for regene (the anti tech) in the beta.

physic
May 21, 2006, 10:28 PM
ba and challenge would be mostly serverside changes, the first challenge only existed on the servers back on DC. im pretty sure the early level caps will be meted out to us like fake new content, a la psobb. (unlocking VH and h and ult for ex)

Russ2576
May 22, 2006, 01:56 AM
On 2006-05-21 20:01, Inazuma wrote:
it only took me 30 hours to reach level 30 in the beta, and i wasnt rushing to do it. i seriously doubt 100 is the max cuz then everyone would be 100 in a few weeks. i bet it works out exactly like pso, and we can get to level 200.

If it is level 200 again, then I hope to god they make it reasonably obtainable this time. Level 200 was a pipe dream back on DC v.2 and GC Ep1&2.

physic
May 22, 2006, 07:47 AM
having your max level as very hard to achieve is a good idea in my opinion, games like pso get substantially less entertaining when you can no longer get stronger.

mitchm
May 22, 2006, 08:52 AM
i hope the level cap is atleast 200... it would be awsome though if it was like 999 or something crazy like that. the only problem with it would be it would take like a year to go up one level at some point. As for the expansion stuff you guys are talking about, since i hear its coming to the 360 i kinda dont have to worry about it unless they dont make it a content download. I really want to get this game since i couldnt play blueburst.

voxie
May 22, 2006, 09:13 AM
On 2006-05-21 18:25, Strider_M wrote:
The Cap could be 100 and raised to 200 when PSU Episode II comes out for Nintendo Wii which would include Battle and Challenge modes...

No! No! I'm kidding! But that might be the case granted that's how PSO worked out!



Haha, tht made me laff! XD

Anyway, yeah of course it's common sense that the final release will have a much higher level ca. If one, I mean it could be 999...

Zarbolord
May 22, 2006, 09:22 AM
Don't forget about the interview. He said that since the characters are server linked/saved, they will be able to adjust things and change really easily. I think that EPII will actually just be a continuous adjust of PSU, kinda like patches for The Sims. Slowly everything is added, put back to normal, etc... and new worlds/new story would just be added. You probably will need to finish EPI to go to EPII which will be easy for us as we'll be playing as of start http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Skye-Fox713
May 22, 2006, 04:13 PM
if they do make somthing like a PSU ep 2 or any thing like that. I hope that the characters will be transferable to the newer version unlike what they did with PSO ep1&2 plus where they only made the japanes characters transferable over to the new version. cause that would suck uber time.

REJ-
May 22, 2006, 10:16 PM
Having the level cap at 200 seems pretty cool, but there'd still be a bunch of people who reach it. As for class type level cap, it should be somewhere along the lines of 50 or more, to make it hard to reach max.


Or...

...Unlimited Levels anyone?

Strider_M
May 22, 2006, 10:19 PM
Unlimited Levels would be insane.... You know... Walking around in Ultimate mode... doing a single Rafoie and ALL the enemies instantly die?!

Axios-
May 22, 2006, 10:21 PM
They should have unlimited levels, but only have monsters suitable for up to 200. Then have one area that has a level requirement of 500. People would just go crazy trying to figure out what's there.

_Tek_
May 22, 2006, 10:24 PM
Yeah for infinite levels they'd need infinite difficulty modes then.

Speaking of leveling I haven't read up on how the job levels and main levels work. They are seperate right?

Tystys
May 22, 2006, 10:32 PM
On 2006-05-22 20:21, Axios- wrote:
They should have unlimited levels, but only have monsters suitable for up to 200. Then have one area that has a level requirement of 500. People would just go crazy trying to figure out what's there.



Too bad it's not possible to do this

SirenV
May 22, 2006, 11:53 PM
On 2006-05-21 23:56, Russ2576 wrote:


If it is level 200 again, then I hope to god they make it reasonably obtainable this time. Level 200 was a pipe dream back on DC v.2 and GC Ep1&2.



Seriously.

But as for infinite levels I don't know... the idea of constantly getting stronger is entertaining but it can cross the line of ridiculous.Although you don't want those who want to play more to max out prematurely, there's a line to be drawn between working towards something and becoming a slave to achieve a certain amount of content.

Exclusive content for certain levels is a good idea. There will definately be those who max out and will still spend alot of time on the game - in this case there could be more exclusive content.. but (Level 500?) is a little extreme - it'd either have to have an auto-proportional difficulty setting or constantly updated material that goes beyond just giving you new items to get or things to do - and I don't think ST would go out of their way to make that content for those few who got there. The game as it is can only go so far anyway.

I'm sure the level cap will be higher in the final version and I wouldn't outrule the raising of level caps and stuff in later versions. As exhilerating as the notion of unlimited leveling is, I just don't think it'd be particularly fucntional

And I'm pretty sure personal and class levels are separate



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2006-05-22 21:55 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2006-05-22 21:57 ]</font>

Russ2576
May 23, 2006, 01:23 AM
On 2006-05-22 05:47, physic wrote:
having your max level as very hard to achieve is a good idea in my opinion, games like pso get substantially less entertaining when you can no longer get stronger.

Hard to get I agree, but so far out of reach that the majority of the playerbase never got to it? That's just out of whack. The great thing about the lv100 cap on DC PSO, was the sense of accomplishment that came along with it. And really the experience is two-fold - the journey there and that sense of accomplishment once you get there. PSO v2 and GC/Xbox Ep1&2 didn't have that. They were fun no doubt, but it just felt like there was no end in sight.

And let's not forget about all the rare armors and shields that were only equippable at the very high levels. Who all found a rare armor or shield, filed it away into storage, and never got to use it because they never got to the required level for it, before leaving the game? A lot of people I'm sure.

I really, really hope that ST learned from their past mistakes and bad decisions with PSO.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ2576 on 2006-05-22 23:39 ]</font>

_Tek_
May 23, 2006, 02:00 AM
And you could always just start your exact same character from scratch, but try to level it faster.

Shigecki
May 23, 2006, 02:14 AM
On 2006-05-22 23:23, Russ2576 wrote:
Hard to get I agree, but so far out of reach that the majority of the playerbase never got to it? That's just out of whack. The great thing about the lv100 cap on DC PSO, was the sense of accomplishment that came along with it. And really the experience is two-fold - the journey there and that sense of accomplishment once you get there. PSO v2 and GC/Xbox Ep1&2 didn't have that. They were fun no doubt, but it just felt like there was no end in sight.

And let's not forget about all the rare armors and shields that were only equippable at the very high levels. Who all found a rare armor or shield, filed it away into storage, and never got to use it because they never got to the required level for it, before leaving the game? A lot of people I'm sure.

I really, really hope that ST learned from their past mistakes and bad decisions with PSO.

When I took my character to 200, almost two years ago BTW, (the game came out three years ago for the GC/XBox) I felt a huge sense of accomplishment. It doesn't take a huge amount of work to get a character to 200, just consistant play. I hope they at least make it very hard to level, if they are going to cap the level so low. I don't want a week or two to go by and think "WTF, that's it? This is what we were all waiting for? It's done now?'

REJ-
May 23, 2006, 08:57 PM
A good idea would be unlimited personal levels, class levels, and someone said there were levels for photon arts, so unlimited photon art levels as well.

The weapons would only have requirements that reached around level 100-150, and there would be areas that would have difficulty settings up to 300-400. As the area difficulty got higher, there would also be exclusive rares in those places that are hyper, yet they could be equipped by lvl 100-150's.

That way, everyone of any level has somewhere that's challenging, they can use any weapons by the time they are lvl 150, and since by the time you were lvl 200+ when it takes a long time to level up there would be uber weapons to help you through the insane levels, and they could be sold to lower level players for good money as well. Also, players would be a lot more unique, because since class and photon art levels are unlimited, people would be a lot more specialized, and there wouldn't be as many clones doing the same thing.

It's perfect.

SirenV
May 23, 2006, 09:38 PM
Ok... but what if someone level 400 in an 'insane' area finds an 'extremely insane' rare, and gives it to a 100-150. The game might become unbalanced - overpowering was a big problem in PSO becuase of duplicating items, mag and stat manipulation. Anything used to take on a level 400 area would most likely be devastating in an area of a place that was half its level, or a fourth for that matter. Ok for 'making money' from these weapons, but at that point (level 300-400) something tells me you'd have more money than you'd need anyway.

I don't want it to seem like I hate the idea of keeping the character and universe going, but that wouldn't really work. The only way that would work would be to have additional equipment suited for those high levels, and that would cause a need for alot more content. There's only so much they make that you can buy, so many clothes, so many house items. The big ticket I think is the constant updates of things to do and get versus unlimited leveling. I think they try and give you more to do as well by letting you interchange your class, but realistically theres only so much they can do.
I think they'd rather focus on where the majority is versus the few who got that far.


There's also the "sense of accomplishment" as well. Generally in games you want to be working towards something (as ultimately pointless as it could be) as you enjoy it. If there was no end in sight, I think that may turn some people off from the game, being overcome by the perpetual vastness and in this find a lack of direction.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2006-05-23 19:42 ]</font>

DeathMachine
May 23, 2006, 09:41 PM
Unlimited levels wouldn't work. You would have to level off somewhere. To prevent players from reaching the levels so quickly, ST will probably lower gained EXP, increase the amount needed to level, and make it so that level 70 monsters rarely appear into a 30 average group's area, to shake things up alittle...No one will be able to Rafoie monsters and they all die. The monsters grow in level as you do. You hit 80, they range from 69-82...probably...

REJ-
May 23, 2006, 11:37 PM
On 2006-05-23 19:38, SirenV wrote:
Ok... but what if someone level 400 in an 'insane' area finds an 'extremely insane' rare, and gives it to a 100-150. The game might become unbalanced - overpowering was a big problem in PSO becuase of duplicating items, mag and stat manipulation. Anything used to take on a level 400 area would most likely be devastating in an area of a place that was half its level, or a fourth for that matter. Ok for 'making money' from these weapons, but at that point (level 300-400) something tells me you'd have more money than you'd need anyway.



If a level 150 got a level 400 weapon, he'd probably start moving into the level 250-350 area's with it.

Also, the higher level items could also have a really high PP usage as they get past the 300's, so it would be expensive for a level 150 to use a weapon that strong, in an area where
he doesn't get as much meseta as he uses for refilling the weapon, so really, he wouldn't be staying in a level 100-150 area to wreak havoc. As for making money, they would probably be using the money to buy other uber weaons from high level players, so chances are, there won't be many 100-150's buying uber weapons.

Keep in mind that they are the rare weapons of the hard areas, so there won't be many of them floating around. Let's say a level 350 Ranger finds a lvl 300 force weapon. He would want to sell it, to make enough money to buy a good ranger weapon from a force or a hunter.

Sev
May 24, 2006, 01:33 PM
Unlimited levels? No thanks.

The easiest thing to do is raise the overall amount of exp you need to get in order to level. It wouldn't be unattainable, it would simply be harder then normal. I'd hope that getting to 100 on PSU (Which I think will be the cap) would be like hitting 140 or so on PSU. Maybe less, because afterall... That's alotta time your putting in there.

If you're getting to the level cap too quick, here's an idea. Play a different character, a different job, and/or, GO OUTSIDE.

McLaughlin
May 24, 2006, 02:35 PM
Where was it stated they wanted to release something akin to Battle/Challenge mode?

Axios-
May 24, 2006, 03:06 PM
Takao Miyoshi said that they didn't have a battle/challenge mode in the works right now, but they could add them later on if they wanted.

Lyrise
May 24, 2006, 03:17 PM
On 2006-05-23 21:37, REJ- wrote:

If a level 150 got a level 400 weapon, he'd probably start moving into the level 250-350 area's with it.

Also, the higher level items could also have a really high PP usage as they get past the 300's, so it would be expensive for a level 150 to use a weapon that strong, in an area where
he doesn't get as much meseta as he uses for refilling the weapon, so really, he wouldn't be staying in a level 100-150 area to wreak havoc.


If a level 150 got his hands on a weapon meant for a lv400, there is absolutely no WAY he'd be able to use it, barring cheating obviously.

Why? Because in this game, your stats revolve around your absolute base, and the requirements each weapon posesses revolve around your absolute base stats too. In short, you can't cheat the system by using units and other equips to boost your stats and expect to be able to equip items with requirements that your base stat hasn't met. For instance, if you need 300 ATP to use that shiny new sword, and you only have 260, then you only have 260, nothing more than that, even if you use a +40 atp unit. Remedy? Start levelling. Though with respect to the first example, if it was even possible, 250 levels would be a long LONG time away.

Pillan
May 24, 2006, 03:19 PM
I'd say PSO had a fairly perfect system as far as leveling. You were never forced to repeat the same stage constantly because the next quest was too difficult to complete, which is probably the most boring part of any RPG. Additionally, it kept those who wished to continue playing after accomplishing every quest busy by allowing them to gain a few more levels.

As was stated earlier, you could do everything in PSO by 140-150, but you still had an additional 50 levels that would take around 10 times as long as the other 150 put together. So, if you wanted the additional challenge, it was there but it still remained unnecessary for the majority of the players who would hate to complete such a task.


I guess my general argument is simply this:

Most (over 90%) of the players want to do all the quests and beat the game. Of those, most want to obtain several rare items. Of those, some (maybe 30% of the remaining) want to obtain a few of the rarest items in the game. Of those, even fewer (around 1% of those left) want to do the work to reach the maximum level.

Thus, to make everyone happy, Sonic Team's probably going to leave that system relatively unchanged, but simply change the level cap to whatever it desires (we'll assume 100). In this case, reaching level 70 will take about as long as reaching 140 and you'll be able to defeat the Profound Darkness (we'll assume that's the final boss mission).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2006-05-24 13:20 ]</font>

fumatanera
May 24, 2006, 04:45 PM
On 2006-05-24 13:19, Pillan wrote:
I'd say PSO had a fairly perfect system as far as leveling. You were never forced to repeat the same stage constantly because the next quest was too difficult to complete, which is probably the most boring part of any RPG. Additionally, it kept those who wished to continue playing after accomplishing every quest busy by allowing them to gain a few more levels.

As was stated earlier, you could do everything in PSO by 140-150, but you still had an additional 50 levels that would take around 10 times as long as the other 150 put together. So, if you wanted the additional challenge, it was there but it still remained unnecessary for the majority of the players who would hate to complete such a task.


I guess my general argument is simply this:

Most (over 90%) of the players want to do all the quests and beat the game. Of those, most want to obtain several rare items. Of those, some (maybe 30% of the remaining) want to obtain a few of the rarest items in the game. Of those, even fewer (around 1% of those left) want to do the work to reach the maximum level.

Thus, to make everyone happy, Sonic Team's probably going to leave that system relatively unchanged, but simply change the level cap to whatever it desires (we'll assume 100). In this case, reaching level 70 will take about as long as reaching 140 and you'll be able to defeat the Profound Darkness (we'll assume that's the final boss mission).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2006-05-24 13:20 ]</font>


agreed, i think most people just want to be able to get to the last boss on the hardest difficulty and beat it, maybe find some cool stuff along the way.

anyhoo, i can easily see ST coming out with a PSU EpII, not just online but i bet a complete offline EpII story as well. that would be sweeeet

REJ-
May 25, 2006, 10:01 PM
If there are areas for people up to level 400, it would keep people playing for a long time to get to the final boss. The insane rares would be there to help them reach that goal, as well as having no limit on class levels or on photon art levels. That means that if a person was level 250 that is extremely specialized in being a ranger, and that has a really high photon art level for one of his uber weapons, he could beat the lvl 400 boss, rather than being a lvl 400 that isn't as specialized.

It would take a long time, but as long as there was always a new place to go to, people wouldn't just quit.

justinbrady
May 25, 2006, 10:05 PM
being the top level doesnt make the game better....the moment ur playing right now is the best.

Russ2576
May 26, 2006, 01:58 AM
On 2006-05-24 13:19, Pillan wrote:

As was stated earlier, you could do everything in PSO by 140-150, but you still had an additional 50 levels that would take around 10 times as long as the other 150 put together.

And nobody can see the massive flaw with that? The leveling requirements were extremely wack and screwed up, plain and simple. And I for one, don't wanna see PSU go down the same path.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ2576 on 2006-05-26 00:00 ]</font>

physic
May 26, 2006, 02:07 AM
i will tell you that pso with level 200 was more entertaining than pso with level 100. Getting 200 was completely uneccessary, but if you didnt have those extra levels, then you lose a lot of reason to play the game. Coming to the end of your potential kills a lot of the fun. Really getting level 100 was way too easy, as was getting 150. And with the multi job system, its even less real point in starting a new charachter. I for one hope that teh max level is fairly high, and that whatever caps they put on it early arent to conservative. Waiting on psobb for them to release hard vh etc was very annoying, and left me and most my friends sitting there twiddling our thumbs with nothing to do.