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Saner
May 29, 2006, 03:14 PM
Well Dark Force was always the greatest threat in all the Phantasy Star games.

in PSO they went from DarkFalz, to other new threats.

but since PSU is new they might start if off with Dark Force being the 'final' threat again.

It would be interesting if it's the source of SEED.

Because seeds come from trees and stuff like that. so there is definitely a source most likely.

does this mean PSU might lead us beyond the solar system itself???? That would be quite extraordinary.

SEED comes from another part of space, so either the source will come to the solar system or the Guardians have to travel to its homeworld/core to defeat it.

well it might be Dark Force or maybe something like the Profound Darkness (that was the coolest final boss ever. climactic forms and perfect music too!) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Kyuu
May 29, 2006, 04:34 PM
My understanding was that Dark Falz, Dark Force, and the Profound Darkness were all just different incarnations of the same thing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-05-29 14:35 ]</font>

Jozon
May 29, 2006, 04:37 PM
On 2006-05-29 14:34, Kyuu wrote:
My understanding was that Dark Falz, Dark Force, and the Profound Darkness were all just different incarnations of the same thing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-05-29 14:35 ]</font>


I believe you are correct

Parn
May 29, 2006, 05:38 PM
Dark Force to the Profound Darkness is equivalent to an arm or leg from one of us. An extension... or part if you will.

A2K
May 29, 2006, 05:56 PM
On 2006-05-29 13:14, Saner wrote:
Well Dark Force was always the greatest threat in all the Phantasy Star games.


If by "greatest threat" you mean "final boss", it was only the final boss in two of the original games. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

And... I think everyone's pretty much expecting DF to be the source of SEED, actually. It would be an interesting twist if it wasn't, though.

Miphesto
May 29, 2006, 06:46 PM
do i smell star wars?

zandra117
May 29, 2006, 07:04 PM
Dark Falz and Dark Force are the same thing, Falz is Force written in Palmalatin, the ancient language of Palma.

My clan worshops Thol-Falz (Dark-Force) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Also Dark Force cannot return because he was officialy defeated in PSO. In PSIII you fight Dark Force but he escapes before you are able to defeat him and if you get cry's ending the ship that you are on lands on planet Ragol, this is the same spaceship that is the ruins in pso. PSIV takes place around the same time as PSIII. In PSIV you defeat four Dark Forces and the mother of all Dark Forces, the Profound Darkness. PSO takes place roughly 1000 years after the end of PSIII. The same Dark Force that got away in PSIII returns as Dark Falz to attack the citizens of Pioneer 1 and 2. In PSO episode 3 Dark Falz was never defeated and created something called GERM. GERM eventually grew to become a new Profound Darkness called the Great Shadow. By the end of PSO episode 3 the Great Shadow and Dark Falz was destroyed. Because of this it is impossible for Dark Falz, Dark Force, or the Profound Darkness to return.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-05-29 17:24 ]</font>

Ancient
May 29, 2006, 08:02 PM
Hey if some two-bit burn victim with a hand full of knives can come back from destruction for a bizzilion different crappy movies, then I'm sure the embodiment of all that is evil and covered with pulsing florescent lights can come back any time it wants as well.

Besides, who says we destryed Dark Falz in the first place, heck we can't even destroy a Rappy. Falz prolly just waits till everyone one has gone from his disco-tek of doom, and then comes out and proceeds to dance the night away. Like Night on Bald Mountain, only with more FUNK!

A2K
May 29, 2006, 08:27 PM
On 2006-05-29 17:04, zandra117 wrote:
Also Dark Force cannot return because he was officialy defeated in PSO. In PSIII you fight Dark Force but he escapes before you are able to defeat him and if you get cry's ending the ship that you are on lands on planet Ragol, this is the same spaceship that is the ruins in pso. PSIV takes place around the same time as PSIII. In PSIV you defeat four Dark Forces and the mother of all Dark Forces, the Profound Darkness. PSO takes place roughly 1000 years after the end of PSIII. The same Dark Force that got away in PSIII returns as Dark Falz to attack the citizens of Pioneer 1 and 2. In PSO episode 3 Dark Falz was never defeated and created something called GERM. GERM eventually grew to become a new Profound Darkness called the Great Shadow. By the end of PSO episode 3 the Great Shadow and Dark Falz was destroyed. Because of this it is impossible for Dark Falz, Dark Force, or the Profound Darkness to return.


Actually, Phantasy Star III takes place 1000 years after Phantasy Star IV, according to the original Japanese.

If the AU calendar in the original series is equivalent to the AUW calendar in PSO then PSO takes place approximately 800 years after Phantasy Star IV (PS4 taking place in AU 2284, and PSO occuring in AUW 3084).

Chaz and co. only fight three Dark Forces in Phantasy Star IV, as well as the Profound Darkness. There are Dark Force-like creatures called "Prophallus" in the final dungeon, however, as the name suggests they're likely not "fully mature" DFs. You could possibly fight more than one "Prophallus", or none at all, depending on your luck when it comes to random encounters in certain rooms. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

PSU is a seperate continuity as far as we know, though. So all that has happened in previous games is largely irrelevant.

Skuda
May 29, 2006, 08:37 PM
wouldn't it be fun if SEED were used to prevent Dark Force/Falz from coming back? Then the guardians try and kill off all the SEED and find out that they were usefull. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

PJ
May 29, 2006, 09:18 PM
Uh

Yeah, they beat up Dark Falz/Force/whatever good in Episode 3, but, as the one capsule left by Rico says/someone says in PS4, Dark Falz comes back every 1000 years.

I'm really hoping Dark Falz/Force/Profound Darkness/Jesus is either a boss, or the final boss of this game, purely for continuation sakes, and it'd be cool http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Kyuu
May 29, 2006, 09:27 PM
Aye, I thought the lore surrounding the Profound Darkness was that it returns every 1000 years.

However, as has already been stated, I also remember reading that PSU is intended to be its own continuity, and won't fit in the AUW year charts of the previous games.

DraginHikari
May 29, 2006, 09:47 PM
Either way with the knowledge of the plot that we have... there no clue about the origin of the SEED, prehaps it's connected to Falz/Force or maybe not. There no telling exactly. Even if it's the a different continuity it doesn't necessary mean it couldn't happen either.

NightHour13
May 29, 2006, 09:54 PM
I think the SEED are not exactly as evil as their made out to be. Humans have a tendency to label anything evil that is a threat. Struggle for exsistence is the key i always think. Dark Falz had to eat somthing ya know...

Seed seems to come from some wacked out eye ball looking planet. In the original trailer, you see all the ships blowing it up. Could be somthing ya know, although in the original trailer...Ethan had long hair hahah.

hypersaxon
May 29, 2006, 10:58 PM
On 2006-05-29 19:18, PJ wrote:
Uh

Yeah, they beat up Dark Falz/Force/whatever good in Episode 3, but, as the one capsule left by Rico says/someone says in PS4, Dark Falz comes back every 1000 years.

I'm really hoping Dark Falz/Force/Profound Darkness/Jesus is either a boss, or the final boss of this game, purely for continuation sakes, and it'd be cool http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



If Jesus was a final boss in PSU, Sonic Team would get hate mail from every Christian on this planet.

Kyuu
May 29, 2006, 11:10 PM
If Jesus was a final boss in PSU, Sonic Team would get hate mail from every Christian on this planet.

I think that's a good argument in favor of making Jesus the final boss. =P

PrinceBrightstar
May 29, 2006, 11:20 PM
You mean the great light?

Saner
May 30, 2006, 01:30 AM
On 2006-05-29 19:54, NightHour13 wrote:
I think the SEED are not exactly as evil as their made out to be. Humans have a tendency to label anything evil that is a threat. Struggle for exsistence is the key i always think. Dark Falz had to eat somthing ya know...

Seed seems to come from some wacked out eye ball looking planet. In the original trailer, you see all the ships blowing it up. Could be somthing ya know, although in the original trailer...Ethan had long hair hahah.



ya that would be a surprise if even SEED is not the real threat.

Zorafim
May 30, 2006, 02:09 AM
I dunno, Jesus as a final boss could work if they do him right. Nobody's hating the fact that Sephiroth is the final boss of FFVII, are they? Just make him a huge badass while keeping his basic image...

Okay, I'm just having fun here. Here's hoping for Dark Force as PSU's final boss.

CupOfCoffee
May 30, 2006, 02:28 AM
Heh, wasn't God the final boss in Xenogears? Or something. Anyway, I don't remember that game ending video entertainment as we know it for having controversy, so why not?

Ancient
May 30, 2006, 09:04 AM
Nah, Jesus as an end boss would be too easy, cause he'd keep miraculously healing your party...its what he does...

Fleece
May 30, 2006, 09:35 AM
Wasnt god the boss of Super smash Bros? I've seen the UK national lottery adverts.

Also : Buddy Christ is the final boss on PSU, lets start a petition.

DizzyDi
May 30, 2006, 10:58 AM
On 2006-05-30 00:28, CupOfCoffee wrote:
Heh, wasn't God the final boss in Xenogears? Or something. Anyway, I don't remember that game ending video entertainment as we know it for having controversy, so why not?



Not THE God, but A God, AKA Deus.

Parn
May 30, 2006, 04:03 PM
On 2006-05-29 19:54, NightHour13 wrote:
Humans have a tendency to label anything evil that is a threat.
And reasonable people are able to understand simple concepts, such as a force which kills off countless innocents for its own personal benefit being evil. How can anything that feeds off of hatred, sorrow, and pain be anything BUT evil?

Saner
May 30, 2006, 04:09 PM
ok ok enough with the religious boss ideas. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Uri
May 30, 2006, 05:06 PM
Like the posters above said, Dark Force/Falz comes back every 1000 years regardless of his distruction. Plus I don't really believe that Chaz and a group of mortals could really kill the Profound Darkness.

Sha_Hua
May 30, 2006, 05:09 PM
Saner wrote:
SEED comes from another part of space, so either the source will come to the solar system or the Guardians have to travel to its homeworld/core to defeat it.

The launch game will probably be only defeating the seed on known planets and getting Ethans sister back.
I expect a version 2 will probably contain the traveling to the seed homeworld and new instances for the online part.
Ofcourse trilogies are always better so a version 3 will probably bring the reason for the seeds existance... defeating the dark force, which we will probably have to do cause the seed is gone. I expect these versions over a span of 3 years or more, but it might just keep to one game.

But we will find out in the future. Don't be hasty to find out, it will spoil the game for you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.


*hypersaxon on this board as well. Think we might like the same games http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.*

Kupi
May 30, 2006, 05:20 PM
On 2006-05-30 15:06, Uri wrote:
Like the posters above said, Dark Force/Falz comes back every 1000 years regardless of his distruction. Plus I don't really believe that Chaz and a group of mortals could really kill the Profound Darkness.



I agree. I absolutely agree. I mean, they'd need something like a sword containing the spirits of all those who had ever protected the Algo system and their combined will to protect said galaxy or something.

Oh wait...

And: technically Dark Falz didn't "return". Once destroyed, a Falz was gone, forever. Kaput. They were generated as offshoots of the Profound Darkness, and slipped through the seal when it weakened every 1000 years. That's not regeneration, that's replacement.

Saner
May 30, 2006, 05:31 PM
ya. and destroying the source, I believe the PSIV heroes did finish evil once and for all.

at least for their dimension.

Nuclearranger
May 30, 2006, 10:32 PM
who says profound darkness is the final and most power full being? What if a higher being like idk called Pure evil spawns profound darknesses every million years?

PJ
May 30, 2006, 11:34 PM
On 2006-05-30 07:04, Ancient wrote:
Nah, Jesus as an end boss would be too easy, cause he'd keep miraculously healing your party...its what he does...


Man, I can't believe my Jesus comment had so many... XD

It's one of those things, like etc/all that jazz, but I just used Jesus. Man alive, though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Zorafim
May 31, 2006, 01:56 PM
You know, he'd also miraculously keep himself alive. Though it would take him three days to revive if he's eat down...

Sev
May 31, 2006, 02:28 PM
On 2006-05-30 20:32, NuclearRanger wrote:
who says profound darkness is the final and most power full being? What if a higher being like idk called Pure evil spawns profound darknesses every million years?



Until you have some proof, or Sega states that there is such a being that is above the Profound Darkness... There isn't.

New enemies are a good thing. I swear to God if I would have had to fight Sephiroth in Final Fantasy Tactics I would've thrown the game out of the window.

Axios-
May 31, 2006, 03:00 PM
Yes, I definitely want a new boss instead of the same old throwback.

Keyeszx
May 31, 2006, 10:51 PM
u know they should make the leader of seed the ultimate evil, micheal jackson

SirenV
Jun 1, 2006, 01:52 AM
Not only that, but this is a new Solar System (despite the startling similarities), the Algo solar system itself was formed (by the Great Light) after a tremendously lengthy battle between spirit-like lifeforms many millions of years before 'Phantasy Star' as we know it - as a seal to those unvictorious life-forms who's collective hatred more or less coalesced into the profound darkness. Or something like that - I'm tired and that whole area is a little hard to follow.

And yes, as many have said - those many manifestations of Dark Force were only part of the Profound Darkness. I don't believe there's anything beyond the Profound Darkness to be honest - for it's just absolute madness born of the heart of malice. You have to draw the line somewhere, really - if it gets TOO 'extreme' it loses credibility, I think.

For all intents and purposes, I guess we can say that those Heroes in IV vanquished it [The Profound Darkness] for good. (Or Ep. 3 which would have been the last of it)

Although I'm a bit wary of where Miyoshi is taking the series... (PSO worked well enough, if you assumed that MAYBE it was one of myriad renegade ships fleeing the destruction of Planet Parma from the imminent impact of Satellite Gaila that would thusly obliterate their homeworld (Yet you'd think maybe they'd flee to Motabia or Dezoris - but then that whole "underground resistance of MotherBrain" comes into play - so they seek life away from the ill-fated solar system of Algol)... That somehow flew under MotherBrain's radar, or overrode her command somehow... and left the solar system in search of a new hospitable planet - happening upon Ragol... Thats a shady tie to PSIII and perhaps a link to PSO. In which case - maybe it's entirely possible that a Manifestation of the Profound darkness lingered on one of these ships.)

Anyway, as I was saying - although I'm a bit unsure of where this will go, and that they may be leaving behind a big history, some variance in the main antagonist may not be a bad thing. (Although in II the final boss was MotherBrain(The Earth Men))

I do hope there are ties or references, however.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2006-06-01 00:01 ]</font>

OdinTyler
Jun 1, 2006, 09:21 AM
Having not played EpisodeIII or IV, I still have alot to learn about those. However, didn't the devs make it a point to say that PSO is not related to the old PS games? If so, then how could we have fought the DarkFalz from III & finished it once & for all throughout PSO? Not saying you guys are wrong. If anything, I'm agreeing that PS was, is, & always will be connected to it's roots & it just seems that more & more proof keeps emerging. Also, in my readings here, it seems that the games seem to be following a pattern: 3rd game (a boss is not defeated), 4th game (a higher form is discovered & finally defeated). Odd indeed...

zandra117
Jun 1, 2006, 10:25 AM
In my opinion episode 3 is what happens when you take the bernie subplot in episode 1 and 2 and episode 4 is what happens when you take the sue subplot. They happen at the same time just alternate universes.

Padium
Jun 1, 2006, 12:43 PM
Wow, so many "Jesus" comments, thats just odd. I'm not going to get into a religous debate, but thats the same as puting Bhudda as the final boss, or Muhammed, or that Hindu god, or Zues, or what ever else there is that I can't think of, but my point is How would you like someone saying that your god is the source of all evil (unless your satanist, then thats pretty much what your asking people to say)? Would you honestly want to have to beat up a good god incarnate? To me that's just wrong. Especially with the Jesus constantly healing your party, which logically would happen, and now that I think of it, it sounds somewhat funny.

Sha_Hua
Jun 1, 2006, 03:25 PM
I wanted to make a fighting game with jesus, mohammed, budha and many others to unite people by making religion discussable by creating a rediculous game which contained a lot of religous aspect. But I never did.
The thing is, people will not check the content of the game but just that there is religionous characters in it. Leading to an angry mob of united religions that want to kill me.
Hmmm... meaning if I make it I will unite people one way or the other, the thing is I don't like gambling with my life :S.

A2K
Jun 1, 2006, 04:24 PM
On 2006-06-01 08:25, zandra117 wrote:
In my opinion episode 3 is what happens when you take the bernie subplot in episode 1 and 2 and episode 4 is what happens when you take the sue subplot. They happen at the same time just alternate universes.



Uh... no they don't. Episode IV takes place shortly after Episode II, and Episode III takes place 21 years after Episode II.

REJ-
Jun 3, 2006, 01:21 PM
Perhaps SEED was spawned from Olga Flow.

DraginHikari
Jun 3, 2006, 04:11 PM
On 2006-06-03 11:21, REJ- wrote:
Perhaps SEED was spawned from Olga Flow.



Somehow I doubt it, Olga Flow was merely Flowen infected by the d-cells he recieved after attempting to attack Dark Falz. If that were the case it would be easier to say their were still Dark Falz/Force in nature.

REJ-
Jun 3, 2006, 09:22 PM
It could be a possibility. Perhaps Dark Falz/Dark Force/Profound Darkness follows a chain of evolution:



In PSIII you fight Dark Force but he escapes before you are able to defeat him and if you get cry's ending the ship that you are on lands on planet Ragol, this is the same spaceship that is the ruins in pso. PSIV takes place around the same time as PSIII. In PSIV you defeat four Dark Forces and the mother of all Dark Forces, the Profound Darkness. PSO takes place roughly 1000 years after the end of PSIII. The same Dark Force that got away in PSIII returns as Dark Falz to attack the citizens of Pioneer 1 and 2. In PSO episode 3 Dark Falz was never defeated and created something called GERM. GERM eventually grew to become a new Profound Darkness called the Great Shadow. By the end of PSO episode 3 the Great Shadow and Dark Falz was destroyed.


According to that:

Profound Darkness is the original
it spawned Dark Forces,
one of them evolved into Dark Falz,
Falz spawned some "GERM" thing,
Germ evolved into Great Shadow (which might even be completely different from Profound Darkness)
Great Darkness and Falz are wiped out

The evolution chain could have been split at the first Dark Falz, since he infected Flowen and spawned GERM. Since GERM could evolve into a full fledged Profound Darkness (Great Shadow),
who knows what Flow could have spawned to create SEED. If you're creative, you could think of many ways to open up a new storyline out of it.

Keyeszx
Jun 5, 2006, 12:27 PM
Wow, so many "Jesus" comments, thats just odd. I'm not going to get into a religous debate, but thats the same as puting Bhudda as the final boss, or Muhammed, or that Hindu god, or Zues, or what ever else there is that I can't think of, but my point is How would you like someone saying that your god is the source of all evil (unless your satanist, then thats pretty much what your asking people to say)?
u know bhudda and jesus team up and fight u as the final boss and its only you just u 1 on 2

Sev
Jun 5, 2006, 03:30 PM
The speculation will never end...

They could set PSU in a country western universe and people would still do there very best to link it to the orgional PS series.

Look... They said it's not linked, so technicially it ain't. There are similarities, but it's honestly not supposed to be linked. They probably say this because they want to be out of the shadow that is the PS series and have this game recognized on it's own.

I don't know how many of you have older siblings, but it's that kind of feeling... You're in high school and suddenly instead of being you as you always were, you're so and so's brother. No one takes you for you, but only as so and so's brother.

For a game related reference, just take how most people always compare a Final Fantasy to another Final Fantasy. They try to say they're linked, but they're normally meant to be completely seperate stories. The most direct link that I know of was Cloud being in FFT.

I'm not big into the older PS series. Yes I know of it, and yes I like it, but I don't have the whole history of the series down and really... I never intended to. Just looking at things, it's easy to make links. Very easy. Just don't let it change your opinion of PSU. It is it's own game, and is not supposed to be related to the origional PS series. Any similarities are most likely to satisfy you, the fans, who want these similarities around.

Keyeszx
Jun 5, 2006, 04:35 PM
that happens to me but i make sure to make a name for myself like my teachers love me while my bro umm well they like me and no one dares calls me so and so brother

Moo2u
Jun 5, 2006, 10:11 PM
On 2006-05-29 21:10, Kyuu wrote:



If Jesus was a final boss in PSU, Sonic Team would get hate mail from every Christian on this planet.

I think that's a good argument in favor of making Jesus the final boss. =P



They just have to change the name around and no one would be the wiser.

JAR
Jun 9, 2006, 06:42 PM
Why not just make it some sort of Jesus/Mohammed pan arms hybrid and call it a day!

TheyCallMeJoe
Jun 10, 2006, 12:23 AM
Well in all honety I hope they have ties to the Episodes 1-4, although some things are already reminscent of the previous games (ahem...ancients ruins anyone?)

Everyone knows how Dark Falz was sent to Ragol by some civilzation. I think it would be neat if we found out that the PSU universe is where he was sent FROM. That might explain the similar ruins. Agree?

Nai_Calus
Jun 10, 2006, 01:19 AM
Actually, the references they're being overly heavy-handed with annoy me. They're trying far too hard at this point. PSO stretched it as it was. (Hell, PSIV has some things that annoy people by being too cutesy and throwaway and heavy-handed) I still maintain that they could quite easily set a PSO/PSU-style online game in Algol. Which would please me to no end, think of how COOL it would be to run around a 3D version of, say, Dezolis, and visit places from the original games. That would be awesome. But alas.

Also, if they really wanted the game to stand on it's own and not be in PS's massive shadow, they shouldn't have named it PHANTASY STAR Universe, and shouldn't have name characters and such after people and things from PS. No Tylor or Rutsu or Parum or Landeel or any of that 'lawl ain't we cute' stuff.

*hiss*

...I'm not even going to TOUCH the sheer amount of bullcrap and fan theories passed off as fact in this thread. It makes my head hurt, my soul tired and sucks my will to live just thinking about it.

hypersaxon
Jun 10, 2006, 03:06 PM
On 2006-06-03 19:22, REJ- wrote:
It could be a possibility. Perhaps Dark Falz/Dark Force/Profound Darkness follows a chain of evolution:



In PSIII you fight Dark Force but he escapes before you are able to defeat him and if you get cry's ending the ship that you are on lands on planet Ragol, this is the same spaceship that is the ruins in pso. PSIV takes place around the same time as PSIII. In PSIV you defeat four Dark Forces and the mother of all Dark Forces, the Profound Darkness. PSO takes place roughly 1000 years after the end of PSIII. The same Dark Force that got away in PSIII returns as Dark Falz to attack the citizens of Pioneer 1 and 2. In PSO episode 3 Dark Falz was never defeated and created something called GERM. GERM eventually grew to become a new Profound Darkness called the Great Shadow. By the end of PSO episode 3 the Great Shadow and Dark Falz was destroyed.


According to that:

Profound Darkness is the original
it spawned Dark Forces,
one of them evolved into Dark Falz,
Falz spawned some "GERM" thing,
Germ evolved into Great Shadow (which might even be completely different from Profound Darkness)
Great Darkness and Falz are wiped out

The evolution chain could have been split at the first Dark Falz, since he infected Flowen and spawned GERM. Since GERM could evolve into a full fledged Profound Darkness (Great Shadow),
who knows what Flow could have spawned to create SEED. If you're creative, you could think of many ways to open up a new storyline out of it.



Wow. So perhaps maybe the goal of the Pioneer project was really to get someone infected with the parasitic gene and have him evolve into something like Dark Falz in the hopes of creating the ultimate evil creation. But in attempting to do so, they were unable to contain control of their creation and almost brought doom to the planet of Ragol.

A controlled Profound Darkness? That would definitely be a scarrier threat than a nuclear missile launch.

SirenV
Jun 11, 2006, 12:44 AM
On 2006-06-09 23:19, Ian-KunX wrote:
Actually, the references they're being overly heavy-handed with annoy me. They're trying far too hard at this point. PSO stretched it as it was. (Hell, PSIV has some things that annoy people by being too cutesy and throwaway and heavy-handed) I still maintain that they could quite easily set a PSO/PSU-style online game in Algol. Which would please me to no end, think of how COOL it would be to run around a 3D version of, say, Dezolis, and visit places from the original games. That would be awesome. But alas.

Also, if they really wanted the game to stand on it's own and not be in PS's massive shadow, they shouldn't have named it PHANTASY STAR Universe, and shouldn't have name characters and such after people and things from PS. No Tylor or Rutsu or Parum or Landeel or any of that 'lawl ain't we cute' stuff.

*hiss*

...I'm not even going to TOUCH the sheer amount of bullcrap and fan theories passed off as fact in this thread. It makes my head hurt, my soul tired and sucks my will to live just thinking about it.



*Applause*

You have stolen the words from my mouth, hehe.

I bet they'd be afraid of losing fans if they completely tore the game out of its element.

Lets not forget other heavy-handed references! Like Motavia -> Moatoob (Motavia was also a a great expanse of desert before mother brain's interference, also, by the time of IV - it had reverted to that desert state.) *Huffs*

Well, if you really want to make a new game, you have to draw the line somewhere between having references for those who know the series, and then recycling old stories/universes/characters/whatever. What kind of creative vision does it take to make space pirate Tylor? Oh wait. None. There (basically) already was one.. get where I'm going with this? If they wanted a "NEW GAME" they should have been more original. (And seriously, how hard is it to come up with the stereotypical overbearing hotheaded 'new guy' kid-leader out to save "Girl X" or someodd thing that sweeps him into saving the world that graces 95% of Japanese fiction?) It's hard for this game to stand on it's own when it seems recycled ... well Ian-KunX said it already, lol.

And yeah! It'd be awesome to explore the Algol system.. even if Palma is gone >>.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2006-06-10 23:12 ]</font>

Nai_Calus
Jun 11, 2006, 04:21 AM
*bows*

Yeah, the references feel like they're not trying to be creative, just trying to cash in... Bleh. "If you squint and pretend, you can pretend it's PSV!"

Not that there's much creativity in RPGS these days anyway. Oh look, emo teenage hero boy accidentally embarks on a crazy epic journey, gains various wacky teammates of various races and saves the entire solar system. I think I've played this game before. XP

I dunno. If you set it immediately after PSI, you could do a PS MMORPG with an intact Palma. There'd presumably still be monsters left over from Dark Falz's influence, and presumably there were at least a few twisted people not happy about Lassic being overthrown... Or set it around the time when Motavia and Palma swapped orbits. Or hell, pre-PSI.

Post-PSII and post-PSIV could potentially work too, though you'd end up with two seperate servers since you'd have to pick whether you wanted to be on Motavia or Dezolis since there'd be no way to get between the two. >.> (I suppose a pre-PSII one would be really futile since you'd probably end up dying in the end unless you were one of the 'lucky' 10% of Algol's population to survive, though it'd be interesting to see what Palma was like around that time.)

Thread hijack for the win.

Brus
Jun 11, 2006, 04:35 AM
I dont think that ST is taking the references too seriously at all, if anything I think the fans being "insulted" by the references are the ones taking it too seriously. They're not trying to remake PS as we know it, and as much as I want another REAL PS it doesnt seem like Rieko is going to be writing one (and if that's the case I'd rather see the original series stay dead rather than have other people actually tamper with algo). It's not a cash in. Nobody is going to SOLELY buy this for the easter eggs. A cash in would be anything that had to do with the original galaxy that didnt involve rieko. From what i've seen so far ST is putting alot of real effort in making this game GOOD (hell we already know that or else the game wouldve been out in november of LAST year), and I see the easter eggs as nothing more than their gift to original fans of the series. The way I see it, look at the references, have your giggles, and in the end have a good time. I mean as surprising as it is I'm sure LOTS of people who will play the game will NOT get the references, its not solely original PS fans who are gonna play this game (although I'm assuming most people HERE will get them, we are on a phantasy star forum of some sorts).

As for the cutesy references, I think that is alot of what made PS great. It was a serious story that never actually took itself TOO seriously. The journey and storytelling was always fun (as well as emotional) and entertaining and that is what gave the REAL Phantasy star heart. (I still think PSIV has some of the best story telling and cutscenes of the 16 bit era). If you take yourself too seriously you end up with pretentious crap like FFVIII.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brus on 2006-06-11 02:36 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brus on 2006-06-11 02:39 ]</font>

Kupi
Jun 11, 2006, 12:21 PM
I have to disagree that the references are merely cash-ins. One of the things that made Phantasy Star stand out was its internal consistency from game to game. Seriously, how many (plot-based) games can you say were real continuations of an overarching plotline? In Phantasy Star, there are certain constructs that always (or almost always) recur, like the Esper, Lutz, the pointy-eared healer/claw wielder, and the three planets (albeit in various states of cohesion). If Sonic Team had just made a science-fantasy RPG and called it Phantasy Star, that would've been a cash-in. The references make it more legitimately a member of the Phantasy Star series. It's just an alternate universe, kind've like what I've done with my fanfics. The Kupi and Sapphire of Light and Dark are not the Kupi and Sapphire of The Observer's Test. Similarly, the Lutz and Tylor of PSU won't be the Lutz and Tyler of Phantasy Star (X). They will, however, fulfill the same roles, and I think that those roles must be represented for PSU to count as something other than a generic space RPG with the Phantasy Star name tacked on.

Brus
Jun 11, 2006, 12:24 PM
On 2006-06-11 10:21, Kupi wrote:
I have to disagree that the references are merely cash-ins. One of the things that made Phantasy Star stand out was its internal consistency from game to game. Seriously, how many (plot-based) games can you say were real continuations of an overarching plotline? In Phantasy Star, there are certain constructs that always (or almost always) recur, like the Esper, Lutz, the pointy-eared healer/claw wielder, and the three planets (albeit in various states of cohesion). If Sonic Team had just made a science-fantasy RPG and called it Phantasy Star, that would've been a cash-in. The references make it more legitimately a member of the Phantasy Star series. It's just an alternate universe, kind've like what I've done with my fanfics. The Kupi and Sapphire of Light and Dark are not the Kupi and Sapphire of The Observer's Test. Similarly, the Lutz and Tylor of PSU won't be the Lutz and Tyler of Phantasy Star (X). They will, however, fulfill the same roles, and I think that those roles must be represented for PSU to count as something other than a generic space RPG with the Phantasy Star name tacked on.



Nicely said.

zandra117
Jun 11, 2006, 01:10 PM
Endu was the Lutz of PSO even though he wasnt a force.

Kyuu
Jun 11, 2006, 01:46 PM
On 2006-06-11 10:21, Kupi wrote:
I have to disagree that the references are merely cash-ins. One of the things that made Phantasy Star stand out was its internal consistency from game to game. Seriously, how many (plot-based) games can you say were real continuations of an overarching plotline? In Phantasy Star, there are certain constructs that always (or almost always) recur, like the Esper, Lutz, the pointy-eared healer/claw wielder, and the three planets (albeit in various states of cohesion). If Sonic Team had just made a science-fantasy RPG and called it Phantasy Star, that would've been a cash-in. The references make it more legitimately a member of the Phantasy Star series. It's just an alternate universe, kind've like what I've done with my fanfics. The Kupi and Sapphire of Light and Dark are not the Kupi and Sapphire of The Observer's Test. Similarly, the Lutz and Tylor of PSU won't be the Lutz and Tyler of Phantasy Star (X). They will, however, fulfill the same roles, and I think that those roles must be represented for PSU to count as something other than a generic space RPG with the Phantasy Star name tacked on.

*applauds*

And also, yeah sure, the hot-headed protagonist setting out on an adventure to save girl X, meeting various wacky people who become party members, and ends up saving the world/solar-system/galaxy/whatever has been done many times. So what? I highly doubt you or anyone else can come up with any storyline that hasn't been done before. Most great stories aren't great because or originality, but because of execution. And honestly, I'd rather have a well executed story that was mostly unoriginal than an original story that stinks. People have been telling stories for quite a few thousands of years. Most the good plot lines have been taken. Get used to it.

Parn
Jun 11, 2006, 03:35 PM
So Ian-KunX and SirenV, do either of you own Panzer Dragoon Saga?

SirenV
Jun 11, 2006, 05:01 PM
Of course there is a certain framework required to make this a Phantasy Star title, but that's not the point.

It's all well and good for them to include references, but realize that some in this Universe basically hold no bearing towards anything. Yeah, it's not a terribly huge deal, will I still enjoy the game? I'm most certain I will. Do I think the fact that they're trying to keep certain things running is cool? Yes, but that too is not my point.

The point is - is that he's taking all of these old things and calling them a new game, and wants us to treat it as a new game. For example, Motavia didn't make Phantasy Star in itself, so I don't see the point in naming this new parallel desert planet "Moatoob". Like really it's not a big deal, but if you take a bike and move it three feet that doesnt justify you to say "Why old bean, I do believe that contraption is now a boob!" or something, it's still a bike. Painting it red doesn't change anything either.

For all intents and purposes, you're basically playing in Algol but with similarly different names. If you're saying that all Phantasy Star has to its name are a few key "names" and a couple planets *Shrug*(and its required that you make a new Solar System derivative of these), then I don't know what to tell you. Do I think PSU could have been a hit without the name "Moatoob?" for example? yes. If it's basically the same, then why change it? Its like buying a product and then putting your own name on it, and reselling it. And yes, there HAS to be a certain amount of this, but like Ian said, it seems to be a little too much.

Yes, It's arguable there's nothing left to do in Algo. Its arguable he wants a fresh start. All I'm saying is, is that it's not so fresh. And in terms of the story, yeah, I know, nothing can be new anymore becuase it's all been done 399843^93843 times, but that doesn't mean someone's "Creative Vision" is always the best. I'm not livid or anything, but I'd just think something new would be... newer. Yes one of the great things about phantasy star was that it was all in the same Solar System, over time. *But the fact they're so parallel makes them sort of discredit each other. I guess that's mainly what I'm trying to say. But I can see where he's trying to keep it similar, so, you're right, at least its not something so completely far removed and branded with a PS title. You all have points.


ANYWAY, I must do other things now. XD

Regardless, the game will be good I'm sure, and no, I have not played Panzer Dragoon.

Kupi
Jun 11, 2006, 07:35 PM
And I do admit that I was speaking in absolutes that may have been too extreme; it was either that or write something twice as long as I explained every single exception to the rules I was writing. All I'm saying is that there are some distinctive plot elements within the Phantasy Star mythos that make PSU look much more like a Phantasy Star title, like the three-planet system, a pirate captain named Tylor/Tyler, and so on. Personally, I think PSU's on the positive side of the line with regards to how much stuff is referenced or reimagined from the old series. That's all.

Saner
Jun 11, 2006, 09:56 PM
well even if it's not Dark Force, it will be some kind of final threat, so it might as well be Dark Force.

but either way is fine as long as it looks cool, have multiple forms and not easy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



Then there is this MYSTERY!!!

What if there are two final bosses?

one for the offline story and one for online?


I was thinking about this because someone said the online campaign takes place 2-5 years after the offline Story.

so although some bosses are reused (although I doubt Magashi will be a boss online), there might be exclusive online last bosses. maybe.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-06-11 19:59 ]</font>

Brus
Jun 12, 2006, 01:31 AM
On 2006-06-11 13:35, Parn wrote:
So Ian-KunX and SirenV, do either of you own Panzer Dragoon Saga?



I DO! ahaha I love that game.

Nai_Calus
Jun 13, 2006, 12:17 AM
Nope, Parn, don't. Is there some sort of example you're trying to make with that question? Because if there is, it seems to be lost on both of us. >_>;

I don't horribly mind a reference or two, BUT.

See, this is where PSO, for all its flaws, got it RIGHT. Ragol is not part of a three-planet system. Neither, as far as we know, is Coral. None of the NPCs are trying to be bizzaro alternate versions of PS characters. Rico isn't some bizzare alternate universe version of Alis, she's Rico. Sil'fer isn't some weird alterna-Nei, she's Sil'fer.

But things like, say, Gifoie and Dimates and the like provide that link and feeling without the need for throwing a random guy named Lutz in there. Sure, the boss is called Dark Falz, but it's not quite the same as the PS Dark Falz. (Besides, it gives the 'zomg must link' people something to do.)

It's like the link between Final Fantasy games. Chocobos and spell names. Sure, there's usually guys named Biggs and Wedge, and often a Cid, but they're either minor or don't have much of anything in common. FFVI Cid and FFVII Cid, for example, have very little in common besides a name. If PSU's Rutsu were, say, a warrior-type character, that wouldn't bother me nearly as much. Same as if Tylor were, I dunno, some girly Force-type merchant. That'd fall into the Cid thing. (Yeah, yeah, I know, there were probably at least a dozen girls named Alis the year after PSI happened, and a bunch of boys named Odin and Lutz). But all the overbearing references increase the likeliness of it NOT being linked, IMO. You can, should you wish to, assume that Coral was settled by survivors of Palma's explosion, that Ruins is what's left of another Palman ship that happened to have a Dark Falz/Force on it, blahblah. The sheer number and the importance in the plot of the references for PSU is just strange and doesn't lend itself as much. It's not like Tylor is a minor NPC you run into in a town(I dunno, some kid on Moatwoob or whatever the hell telling you his name is Tylor/Tyler and that he wants to be a space pirate when he grows up, that would be a good 'snicker' moment, but as it is it's just 'Uh... Yeah, mkay. O_o; ')

It's overdone. And yeah, I'd rather can the references entirely and have the game called something else entirely. >_>

Tycho
Jun 15, 2006, 02:41 AM
On 2006-06-05 13:30, Sev wrote:

Look... They said it's not linked, so technicially it ain't. There are similarities, but it's honestly not supposed to be linked.


Not all countries linked, not all consoles linked, not all games linked... what the hell are they doing? >_>;

zandra117
Jun 15, 2006, 08:02 AM
PSU is gonna be the sequal of Phantasy Star Gaiden, SEED is actually the descendant of KABURON from planet Copto. lol http://pscave.com/psg/psge/kaburon_anim.gif see the resemblance.

Parn
Jun 15, 2006, 04:10 PM
On 2006-06-12 22:17, Ian-KunX wrote:
Nope, Parn, don't. Is there some sort of example you're trying to make with that question? Because if there is, it seems to be lost on both of us. >_>;
Yeah, there is. You both are all on Sega's case about their lack of originality, yet you never played one of the most original RPGs ever created, by Sega no less. It was a project they spent a lot of time and money on, and most people ignored it because it didn't have a familiar name on it.

Nai_Calus
Jun 15, 2006, 07:13 PM
*looks game up* Ah, yeah, bad example there to use for me at least, I didn't get into gaming until after the Saturn was already long dead and can still count the number of consoles I own on one hand. An apparently rare game for a console I never owned isn't something that I'd ever have played, no. (You're also talking to someone who takes so long to finish RPGs that they often have to re-start them to remember what the holy hell was going on. I have no clue where the hell I am in FFX, for example, and if I ever feel like going back to it, I'll probably have to start over)

(This is also why I prefer, when attempting to make a point, to simply come out and make the thing, because if you don't know your target audience well enough you end up with things like this. Sorry, the crowing won't work if there's no way I ever would have been able to play the game whether I'd wanted to or not. Whoops.)

And actually, as many RPGs as I haven't played due to lack of time/money/etc, I'm probably less jaded than most people. I just know when something is really really badly over-done. Whether or not I've played x unrelated RPG is irrelevant to Sega being outright lazy.

I understand what you're trying to say, yes. "Sega tried original without name recognization and it didn't work." Except you seem to have picked a really bad example since what I've found on that game indicates that it was hard to get when it came out because more people preordered it than they made copies, that Panzer Dragoon was an at least moderately known shooter series(At least in Japan, anyway) and that it's since become something of a cult classic, so I have no clue what you're getting at with that. >_>;

And yet things with no name recognition somehow seem to end up working out. Final Fantasy had to start somewhere. Phantasy Star had to start somewhere. Beatmania, not that it's an RPG, had to start somewhere. (So PS isn't a good example because it's still relatively obscure, sue me.)

If a game is good enough, people will discover it one way or another, whether or not there's a famous series name attached to it. Hence, yes, they could very well have made PSU named some other thing entirely. If people thought the game looked good enough, they'd still buy it. If it died because of lack of pushing(Oh, kind of like what Sega's doing with it?), well, that's on Sega for not advertising their damned game. Hell, name recognition can backfire. I'm less likely, I'd say, to buy FFXII simply because it IS FFXII and recent entries in the series that I've played have been disappointing.

Regardless, though, there's STILL no reason to go this batshit insane with the references. If I were buying it solely for the Phantasy Star name, I'd buy it whether or not they threw a guy named Lutz in there and ripped off PSII and named the planets with names that sound suspiciously familiar to another three-planet solar system we all know and love. If I was buying it solely because it looked cool and knew nothing of PS, the references would be lost on me anyway. Thus... Yeah, back to the same old 'What the HELL?'.

(But yeah, if it's not on the PS, PS2, GC, GBA, or an 8/16-bit console there's emulators for, I probably haven't played it. Probably still haven't if it's for those consoles, hell)

Brus
Jun 15, 2006, 09:45 PM
On 2006-06-15 19:40, Brus wrote:


On 2006-06-15 14:10, Parn wrote:

On 2006-06-12 22:17, Ian-KunX wrote:
Nope, Parn, don't. Is there some sort of example you're trying to make with that question? Because if there is, it seems to be lost on both of us. >_>;
Yeah, there is. You both are all on Sega's case about their lack of originality, yet you never played one of the most original RPGs ever created, by Sega no less. It was a project they spent a lot of time and money on, and most people ignored it because it didn't have a familiar name on it.



I remember someone else perhaps in another thread was mentioning how can a short game be epic, and I totally forgot about this game. I must say 20 hour compelion including secrets, yet one of the most epic RPG's to date. I still have my copy despite being offered a few hundred dollars for it. I agree that this game was definintely a masterpiece.



If a game is good enough, people will discover it one way or another, whether or not there's a famous series name attached to it.


Very not true. so very sadly not true. If this were true everyone and their mother wouldve played psychonauts. Nothing but good press, won just about every videogame award imaginable yet sold about 20 copies. It's also another favorite of mine. The sad story is you cant rely on a good game to be a good seller.

Parn
Jun 15, 2006, 10:06 PM
On 2006-06-15 17:13, Ian-KunX wrote:
*snip*
Sega being outright lazy
*snip*
An interesting statement given your point of view. A new game in a seperate continuity with similar references used purely for the sake of rousing a bit of nostalgia from fans of the series is "laziness", yet your desire for them to make a game based shortly after Phantasy Star I's closure where they'd be reusing the exact same NPCs and world is A-OK? Feel free to explain that one.

Then again, if they did make another game in the original continuity as you seem to desire so much, you'd find some other reason to bitch and moan about the game. It really comes down to the game not fitting your own personal vision of what Phantasy Star should be. I listened to similar garbage about Phantasy Star Online, most notably before the game shipped back in December of 2000 in Japan.

Nai_Calus
Jun 16, 2006, 07:05 AM
What needs to be explained? You could quite easily set an MMORPG-type game shortly after PSI. No need to even come up with that much of a story. How much story do you run into in a typical day on, say, RO? Point of it would be mostly, yes, pure senseless nostalgia and the sheer coolness factor of running around PSI-era Algol with the kind of graphics and gameplay in existance today. (And yeah, I'd probably find something to bitch about with it. Same as with any other online game. x class is unbalanced, too many people use y, blahblah. XP)

But it's not even really comparable anyway since that idea doesn't involve creating a new large story framework and would be more or less to PSI what PSU's online mode apparently is to its story mode.

It's kind of like FFX-2. FFX-2 isn't lazy, even though it uses the same settings and characters for the most part as FFX because it's supposed to be a sequel and follow directly. FFX-2 Yuna is FFX Yuna.

Accordingly, running into, say, Lutz/Noah as an NPC in a PSI-based MMORPG-type game would be like that. Same Lutz, it's not mindless reference because, well, if it were a couple years after PSI he'd still be around. It would be intended to be in the same universe and thus it would fall into the realm of sequels. Palma would be Palma(Unless it was Palm or Parma. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif ), Alis would be Alis, there's nothing cutesy or overdone there. Same universe, same people, makes perfect sense.

It's when you're supposedly coming up with something new and original and then... Re-using stuff randomly, that's when it gets stupid. Don't name the goddamned planet Parum, steal the name and job of a character from PSU, name some random guy Lutz and then go on about your new original game, because at that point it's gone beyond 'nostalgia'.

Beating up on FFX again, would you roll your eyes if you were playing, say, FFXIV, and hey, the main character came from, say, Sanarcund and had a girlfriend named Yuunah and oh look at all this stuff that's a cutesy reference to FFX to the point you want to smack your head against the wall in a game supposedly set in a different place and time entirely?

(And pssh, I can find something to bitch and moan about in every game. FFVI is one of my favourite games ever, quite possibly my favourite, but I'll be the first to tell you how godforsakenly broken Espers are and how lame the final boss fight is. Or how much I love Myst but goddamn some of the puzzles aren't something you would ever bloody think to try... I pick things I like apart. Stuff I hate I usually don't even bother with. >_>; ) (And yeah, I'd find something to bitch about. Some inconsistency or some broken thing or whatever. Would I also love every minute of it? Of course. Do I bitch about PSU? Well, yeah. Will I love every minute of it? Yeah, probably. Won't keep the things that piss me off from pissing me off, though. XP)

Ahh, 5am rambling posts. This would probably have been so much more coherent if I weren't half asleep.

Saner
Jun 16, 2006, 07:17 AM
On 2006-06-15 00:41, Tycho wrote:


On 2006-06-05 13:30, Sev wrote:

Look... They said it's not linked, so technicially it ain't. There are similarities, but it's honestly not supposed to be linked.


Not all countries linked, not all consoles linked, not all games linked... what the hell are they doing? >_>;




oh come now when PSO first came out it was only on Dreamcast and it was still exploding with fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Brus
Jun 16, 2006, 01:55 PM
On 2006-06-16 05:17, Saner wrote:


On 2006-06-15 00:41, Tycho wrote:


On 2006-06-05 13:30, Sev wrote:

Look... They said it's not linked, so technicially it ain't. There are similarities, but it's honestly not supposed to be linked.


Not all countries linked, not all consoles linked, not all games linked... what the hell are they doing? >_>;




oh come now when PSO first came out it was only on Dreamcast and it was still exploding with fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



But it also had all countries linked http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Aidan
Jun 26, 2006, 01:50 AM
i dont even know what a dark force is lol im new to the game can somebody explain it

DraginHikari
Jun 26, 2006, 05:45 AM
On 2006-06-25 23:50, Aidan wrote:
i dont even know what a dark force is lol im new to the game can somebody explain it



*Points* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Force_(Phantasy_Star)