DOUBLE RANT

[FOAtHeart]

#1

People who never post in Fan Works, except when they want to make a request

Not targeted at any specific user, since lots of people do it. Something about this just seems rude. I know the artist volunteers, and you are just taking advantage of that. At least contribute.

Failing that, post some comments once in awhile. By that, I don't mean "Thanks for the request, man. I am going to go disappear now until you do more."



#2

It seems like artists who work the hardest get the least credit.

In most forums and other big collections of people where art is shown (you too, PSOW) it no longer matters what art is good. Just what is popular. This makes sense. People like to appreciate what they like.

This seems unfair to the equally (or more) talented but less popular artists.

I feel like a victim of this sometimes, but my art get a lot of views so I do appreciate that. However every day I see really briliiant pieces of work drop to the bottom of the page with 1 or 2 comments just because fan art or more mainstream styles seem to be more popular.

What is even worse is the people who take advantage of that to get more comments and attention. Like by doing requests. Doing fan art. Changing their style (anime style? ;o).

This makes me mad because I do not think that is what art is about. It is about doing it because you like it. But there is a balance between doing art because you like it and enjoying that other people like it, too. I think that balance is missing, especially in Fan Works.

All I ask is that everybody consider the artist, and appreciate how they do things, instead of how "kawaii" it is or how much you like it.

[Jive18]

I'll be the first to admit that I hardly visit Fanworks. I dunno why, it's just a forum I don't think about often.

Reading this rant makes me wish I was more involved though, at least in terms of offering encouragement/praise/gratitude to those who are brave enough to post their work for everyone else to see. I think it's more than just the quality of art that matters, and all the members who post stuff deserve some kind of credit.

Good topic Fo.

[CupOfCoffee]

Aahhhh, too true, FO. Fan Works doesn't get very much attention as it is, but hopefully once PSU arrives, it'll pick up quite a bit. If you go back about 80 pages, man, that forum was hopping. Every other topic was a fanfic, which was like, awesome. I miss that. =/

[Solstis]

It's sometimes better when there are less posters. It's always fun to watch when one poster from FKL posts a picture or ficcie in Fan Works, and a week of spam in nearly every thread results.

The only reason why I wrote fan fiction is because people would pay more attention to it than my short stories (even though most of my fics were of lesser quality than my original works). After I noticed that my average was 2 posters per fic, I decided to stop bothering.

[CupOfCoffee]

Yeah... the severe lack of acknowledgement that fanfics generally receive makes posting them seem so futile and unappreciated. I'm not even sure if I'll finish the one of mine that's sticked right now because it just seems like there's nobody reading.

[Sagasu]

Blaming the audience for an artists failure(I use this term lightly) is taking it a bit far, Fo.

[Sayara]

I am not quite sure i understand the light term of "artist failure" could you explain it to me?

[InfinityXXX]

I feel where you comming from on Rant #2. I see that sometimes too. (It happened to me once >.<, but its all good lol)

I post there periodically(more often in the summer) but I lurk on that forum a lot.
(runs to fanfic forum)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: InfinityXXX on 2006-06-02 14:03 ]</font>

[Sagasu]

On 2006-06-02 13:53, Tingle wrote:
I am not quite sure i understand the light term of "artist failure" could you explain it to me?



Certainly. Though I was more specifically targetting the amount of replies issue. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

No one is obligated to like the art here on psow, despite the amount time, effort, or talent involved in creating it. If you aim to recieve, you gotta give something that they can value. If someone aiming to recieve puts out a piece that recieves little feedback, somewhere along the line the artist has "failed" to create(or advertise(present to), even) value to a wider audience.

If they dont mean to recieve then I'm not talking about them, and they probably dont post their art on a forum anyways. Also, as far as the "true" meaning of art, I see it as a means to an end. Not something that is right, or wrong, depending on how its done.

[FOAtHeart]

On 2006-06-02 14:19, Sagasu wrote:

Certainly. Though I was more specifically targetting the amount of replies issue. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

No one is obligated to like the art here on psow, despite the amount time, effort, or talent involved in creating it. If you aim to recieve, you gotta give something that they can value. If someone aiming to recieve puts out a piece that recieves little feedback, somewhere along the line the artist has "failed" to create(or advertise(present to), even) value to a wider audience.


I agree. The point I was trying to make was that ideally there would be a middle ground here.




...not something that is right, or wrong, depending on how its done.



I disagree. As an artist I place so much more value on something that was created with purpose and deliberateness than...a plane crash. So to speak.

Obviously not everyone has that same perspective, but that is just where my bias lies.

[Sayara]

Alright; I got ya.

[PJ]

Generally, people will comment on what they like or what is, 'Kawaii.'

I think you're asking too much of your audience [at PSOW]. To truly appreciate a piece of work, you'd probably have to be an artist yourself. Otherwise, the only opinions the non-artists can form is what looks good to them. The criticisms can't come from non-artists, since they would have no clue what's wrong with something except for something that looks wrong.

Generally, I like all/most of the stuff going through fanworks. But usually if I'm not saying anything constructive, then usually I won't post. I've done a lot of, "This is awesome, you rocks my socks, blah, blah" etc posts in the past, but those weren't very helpful, right? Hence why I hardly ever post at fanworks (I'm always lurking there however)

[navci]

I laughed at point #1.

#2. Hmm. It is really true on just about every forum. Remember how I hated oekakicentral? When I used to hang out there, the way they rate your picture is by how much time you spent on it. What if you are a speed drawer? You still get bullied that you are sketching. And of course if you draw a popular anime character you obviously receive more comments than if you draw something rather unknown.

There really is a lot of viewpoints out there.
Remember most of the internet is populated by people under 20. :>

[KodiaX987]

Case in point for #2.

I wrote several fics that I thought were good, but were given little recognition.

Then one day, I decided to do a "fanboy fic". Something loaded with cliches, shitty combat scenes, way too many characters, no definite plotline and which would never get finished. I got flooded with positive comments. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[FOAtHeart]

On 2006-06-03 08:16, PJ wrote:


I think you're asking too much of your audience [at PSOW].



This rant was a venting of things that bother me, and me painting my ideal of how I'd like things. Obviously I am not going on some crazy crusade to change people's minds. It's always going to be the way it is, but I don't have to like it. >_>; So in that sense I am not asking anything of anybody, just giving a perpective.
But I can see how you get that impression from my post. XD

[Neith]

Fan Works is a quiet forum compared to the others really (well, maybe except the Ep3 forums).

I've posted sketches up quite a few times, and had no comments.

The point of posting there is to let other people see/read your work, not for anyone to expect comments. Sure, its good to get constructive criticism I guess, but you can't expect to get feedback on everything.

Some work interests people, some doesn't. For example, I love looking at character sketches/concepts, but things like FanFics don't interest me (no offense to FanFic writers, I just don't read FanFics).

Remember too, that PSO is an old game now, people lose interest in things like this slowly (myself included).

Personally, I'd rather Fan Works had more in it, rather than the Rants forum.

[zwandude15]

On 2006-06-04 09:50, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Fan Works is a quiet forum compared to the others really (well, maybe except the Ep3 forums).

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Uncle_bob]

I couldn't agree more with #2. I don't spend hours and hours on what I draw, but I do put work and effort into it. And it's so frustrating when I only end up with about 5 comments after about a week. Then my topic gets pushed down to the bottom by some crudely drawn anime woman with huge knockers, and that topic ends up with about two pages of repies within a day. :|

[Neith]

On 2006-06-04 11:27, Uncle_bob wrote:
Anime woman with huge knockers


That's your reason why, heh.

[navci]

On 2006-06-04 11:27, Uncle_bob wrote:
some crudely drawn anime woman with huge knockers


QFT.

[Outrider]

On 2006-06-05 11:34, navci wrote:


On 2006-06-04 11:27, Uncle_bob wrote:
some crudely drawn anime woman with huge knockers


QFT.



QFTx2?

I mainly just check the recent updates in fanworks before posting in other forums, so I wasn't really aware that there were people who just used Fan Works as their own private resource department. I think people should contribute to the Fan Works community in order to benefit from it, y'know?

But yeah, I completely know what you mean about certain people getting lots of recognition for what is essentially playing the crowd. There has been a lot of great art posted up in the forums, particularly by some artists that have vastly improved since they started, and it's like nobody even cares. I'll be the first to admit that I can rarely think up a good comment besides "great job" when I see others' work, but even that can go a long way sometimes.

[navci]

On 2006-06-05 16:32, Outrider wrote:
particularly by some artists that have vastly improved since they started, and it's like nobody even cares. I'll be the first to admit that I can rarely think up a good comment besides "great job" when I see others' work, but even that can go a long way sometimes.



It is true tho. I totally see what you are saying. Sometimes it really is the improvement that matters. But you can only say it so many times without it starting to sound real cliche. But I guess that is when your posting character comes into play. Say, if you posted in fanworks say.. for fofo's topic. Even a simple "good job" can be a real encouragement. Cuz it is more of a matter that you care rather than just posting for the heck of it.