How much time will this game need?

[Zorafim]

Would it be possible to just turn on the game, kill some stuff for half an hour, and leave? I've been playing FFXI, and my biggest complaint is that you need hours to do the tiniest of things. You need to schedule your day around FFXI, instead of schedule your FFXI around your day. Will this game have the same problem, or will it be as free as say, PSO?

[Saner]

don't worry you can accomplish much more in less time in these games than those evil and slow chores FF11 makes you do. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Sev]

Any game... Is faster then FFXI... At least every game that I've played so far has been. This should be the fastest of all though. You can join groups that are already in a mission, wait and form a team, or solo a mission. You get a good bit of options.

[Zorafim]

That's nice to hear. Really need a change from FFXI. If, you know, it weren't so addictive...

[Saner]

how could you find something soo... tedious and ridiculous, to be addictive? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[hypersaxon]

I just quit FFXI, couldn't stand the whole "stand in the same spot and wait for team mate to pull same creature over and over, provoke, auto attack, provoke again, etc."

If you hate those sorts of games, you have very little to worry with PSU. The series is known to be very fast-paced, and instead of camping you're fighting your way through entire areas to get to the bosses as quick as possible, which I find to be a lot more fun than FFXI's bore fest.

[Zorafim]

Well, it's not that I hate it... It's just that it's rediculous how much time it requires. I'd rather have something I can start up, have fun, and stop whenever I want, instead of waiting hours to do something of mild importance.

[Spellbinder]

Having played FFXI for 2 years, I can testify to what this guy talks about.

Time to form a party: 2 hours?
Time to travel to destination: 30 minutes
Time to travel to a different spot because the one you found is crowded: 10 minutes
Time you actually spend leveling up: who knows?

If Phantasy Star Online is anything like its predecessors (which more than likely it will be), you should be able to hook up with friends and roll through some good clean fun much MUCH faster than you do in FFXI.

[Zorafim]

You forgot to add in farming for your equipment, getting a group to selflessly help you get something that you'd be worthless without, and having to regain exp that you lost in rank missions/dynamis/hnms/trying to solo something ten levels lower than you.

[Spellbinder]

Oh right.. let's see

Farming for your equipment: 2 weeks to a month? (depends on what you need)
Getting a group to help with something you really need: Hmm... a few days, maybe a week
Regaining lost exp from Missions/Dynamis Raids/HNMs: Priceless

[Rihcky]

Really, PSO wasn't a "pick up and play" game. Sure it's faster than FFXI, but it wasnt a fast game.

If you are looking for a game like that, don't play RPGs at all.

[_Tek_]

pso's a much more sociable envoriment, since I doubt you see alot of bots, if any.

[Kers]

Online game markets do attract botters tho. Sellin meseta might be worth real money heh

[DraginHikari]

Meh personally I find the idea of buying a game currenacy with real money for game that is already p2p anyway rahter sad

[Kers]

Yeah, ditto. Sadly, actual companies have been established over farming game currency lol. Buyers say they don't see a difference in ethics. They're just "paying money for a game to make it more fun". I suppose money isn't an issue for some people without morals for gaming hehe. I may be alittle harsh though.

[Sev]

Opinions are Opinions.

I've never been one to brag about my morals IRL, let alone "Game Morals" so you can assume my morals suck. People are going to do what they gotta do to enjoy something they've purchased though. Selling currency is a service, as long as it gives people something that they want... People will buy it, and people will enjoy their purchase.

Out of the 5 MMO's I've played, I've bought currency for Lineage 2. This was the 4th MMO I played. The currency is cheap, because the prices are pretty high. 20,000,000 Adena was like $15. And yeah... You aren't making that much money easily at a lower level, if at all. I'm lazy, so I went ahead with it... I've always been lazy though. It's nothing justifiable, but I got my fun out of the game for $15 extra. I only bought the game in order to enjoy it in the first place.

Call it bad morals... Call it what you will. It has nothing to do with money not being an issue. I'm by no means rich. But I'll be damned if I pay $50, and a fee, only to spend all of my time farming and never actually playing and enjoying the game.

If it were really as you say, and all it takes is bad morals and a lack of ethics... Don't you think I would've bought money on every game that I play? You don't think there's other reasons aside from personal enjoyment? I always find it best to not judge people as a whole, that's how you get stereotype.

[PhotonCat]

PSU isn't gonna be like FF11. In FF11 you NEEDED a group just to do anything. Fortunately, You won't need to in PSU. You can "pick-up" play just like in PSO I would assume.


Really, PSO wasn't a "pick up and play" game. Sure it's faster than FFXI, but it wasnt a fast game.

If you are looking for a game like that, don't play RPGs at all.


Yes PSO was.... and RPGs are very friendly with "picking up and playing". I have not played a game where you couldn't play for a few mintues then save and shut it off. Only games that get you "engrossed" are online ones, but you still can just log-off when you wanted to.

[Kers]

I call it morals because is an easy way to cheat the online experience. You're exploiting a way to achieve things that are worth real time in game. If ST wanted people buying meseta with real money, then they would have that option.

"Selling currency is a service, as long as it gives people something that they want... People will buy it, and people will enjoy their purchase." This is what keeps bots around. Bots are another thing that erodes the online experience down to a wreck of cheats and exploits.

"You don't think there's other reasons aside from personal enjoyment?" You need to have some lack of morals to cheat online because it effects the game for others.

Oh, and I'll voice a stereotype real quick. People who buy game currency also exploit. You will exploit.

[Sev]

On 2006-06-08 12:58, Kers wrote:
I call it morals because is an easy way to cheat the online experience. You're exploiting a way to achieve things that are worth real time in game. If ST wanted people buying meseta with real money, then they would have that option.

"Selling currency is a service, as long as it gives people something that they want... People will buy it, and people will enjoy their purchase." This is what keeps bots around. Bots are another thing that erodes the online experience down to a wreck of cheats and exploits.

"You don't think there's other reasons aside from personal enjoyment?" You need to have some lack of morals to cheat online because it effects the game for others.

Oh, and I'll voice a stereotype real quick. People who buy game currency also exploit. You will exploit.



I've never used a bot.

I've never used Action Replay or Gameshark on any of the PSO versions.

I never used the shop dupe trick.

I've played 4 other games, and never bought currency there. If I had a lack of morals, you'd think I'd do it over and over again since I just want everything to come so easily. You would think that there would be a way for someone of a low level to survive and level up in the game without heavy assistance from someone else, but there wasn't. Most of the new people I see come into the game, are coming to play with a person they know. That person then gives them assistance with all the starter equipment so they can just play the game and not spend days of gameplay fighting low level mobs because anything higher would kill them due to a lack of equipment. The game is equipment based.

It's in the Terms of Service for most games. That you are not to use this game to make any form of profit. Yet companies like IGE still thrive and sell currency for those very games. Nothing has been done about it. I'd assume that nothing CAN be done about it or the company would be gone.

Oh, and I'd like to shake the hand of the guy that makes a bot able to run through PSU dungeons.

Your stereotype fails. Better luck next time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sev on 2006-06-08 13:20 ]</font>

[PhotonCat]

I call it morals because is an easy way to cheat the online experience. You're exploiting a way to achieve things that are worth real time in game. If ST wanted people buying meseta with real money, then they would have that option.

"Selling currency is a service, as long as it gives people something that they want... People will buy it, and people will enjoy their purchase." This is what keeps bots around. Bots are another thing that erodes the online experience down to a wreck of cheats and exploits.

"You don't think there's other reasons aside from personal enjoyment?" You need to have some lack of morals to cheat online because it effects the game for others.

Oh, and I'll voice a stereotype real quick. People who buy game currency also exploit. You will exploit.

There is nothing wrong with buying currency on an Online game.

Firstly, it is a GAME, meant to have fun, nothing more, nothing less. If someone wants to spend their OWN money and make the game more fun for themselves then so be it. It's none of your buisness.

Second, it does NOT effect you in anyway. So what some guy just bought some meseta, how would you even know?

You act like it's because of gold seller/farmers that ruin games. Well let me tell you they don't. It's because of junky communities that ruin games or the game is doomed because of it's poor mechanics, or it sucks.
People don't stop playing a game just because of botters/gold farmers/sellers.

Gold sellers/farmer and botters will always be in online games, there is nothing that can be done to stop them completly.

And the ONLY reason game companies don't want you to buy currency from their games is because THEY DON'T GET THE PROFIT FROM IT. They could care less if it "ruins the game" for you. Sega could sell meseta themselves if they felt the need to milk more cash.







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PhotonCat on 2006-06-08 13:22 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

Buying and selling currency in a game does effect the economy. Sure, there are always players who try to sell an item for the most that they can, and buy it for the least that they can, but the people who sell their currency do this much more often, making that item sell for much more than it should. Then there's the people who buy the currency themselves. Since they have more than enough of thier currency, they can buy an item for however much the seller wants. This will effect how much the next person buys said item for, and the process may continue.

During newyears, IGE sold their gil for a discounted price, and in turn everything in the game doubled in price. After a few months, everything went down to what they were being sold for again, except maybe some of the rarer items.

[uhawww]

On 2006-06-08 13:19, PhotonCat wrote:
Firstly, it is a GAME, meant to have fun, nothing more, nothing less.

There are MANY people who will be lost on this one line.

[Shrevn]

This game is no guild wars and that game is fast...
but it should be somenthing like
Guild Wars> PSU> WOW> Everything else> FFXI lol
at least i hope so http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Elumny]

WoW is just as bad, I hate it now basically because of how time consuming the simple tasks are.

[Sev]

On 2006-06-08 15:00, Zorafim wrote:
Buying and selling currency in a game does effect the economy. Sure, there are always players who try to sell an item for the most that they can, and buy it for the least that they can, but the people who sell their currency do this much more often, making that item sell for much more than it should. Then there's the people who buy the currency themselves. Since they have more than enough of thier currency, they can buy an item for however much the seller wants. This will effect how much the next person buys said item for, and the process may continue.

During newyears, IGE sold their gil for a discounted price, and in turn everything in the game doubled in price. After a few months, everything went down to what they were being sold for again, except maybe some of the rarer items.



Everything affects the economy. I already know that much. I'm talkin about one game speciffically in my case, Lineage 2 on the Hindermith server. Nothing is going to save those prices. Nothing.

As far as FFXI goes, yes... People selling currency have an affect. The biggest affect is the people buying currency though. They buy it, and then blindly spend it and in turn hike the prices. I've never bought gil, it'd be a waste of my money because I'm prone to quit the game for months at a time randomly. Prices also dropped when SE axed a good bit of currency sellers and a good bit of gil from the game. There's also the fact that if people knew how to spend money or work an economy in the first place, prices wouldn't go up as they do.

Honestly, I don't think most of the problem with prices in FFXI is related to currency sellers persay. The player base as a whole helps contribute to bad prices. They also contribute to lack of parties and loss of experience. This is why I can't wait for FFXII. It's FFXI minus all the stupid.

[Zorafim]

But will it have mithras and .dat modding?
I didn't think so.

[Saner]

On 2006-06-08 15:00, Zorafim wrote:
Buying and selling currency in a game does effect the economy.



all the more reason to not have an Auction House in the first place. cheapskates just exploit it to benefit themselves and sell things for more than they're worth anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Sev]

On 2006-06-08 18:58, Zorafim wrote:
But will it have mithras and .dat modding?
I didn't think so.



What are we talkin about now? If it's PSU...

No... It doesn't have Mithra, it has Beasts. It also has Cat Girl pieces available to buy as accessories...

And .dat modding is something we wouldn't know about. Considering the game isn't out. If you do know that it won't, you my friend, have information from the future. And if that's the case, I'd like to know in advance when I'll finally get a speeding ticket, so I can avoid it.

[uhawww]

any sort of hacks/custom modelling will be VERY difficult to perform for the time being. Those who've seen a fully installed PSU (for the Beta) and bothered to check out the installation and data structure know that instead of any sort of ordered or modular data storage (eg FFXI, where you have succinct DAT folders and individual .dat modules that represent self contained graphical or animationi information that can easily be swapped and edited), we were greeted with an absolute jumble of non-sensical alphanumeric folders and packages. God bless anyone trying to decipher that mess. It's a very good start to thwarting cheats, hacks, and the like.

[DizzyDi]

Here we go, another Bash on FFXI/WoW MMO thread. There should be an official Bash on FFXI and WoW thread, that way there won't be any more of these discussions in a PSU forum.

[uhawww]

You're right. We should probably move this thread back on track, seeing as comparing PSO/PSU to FFXI/WoW presents the whole apples and oranges situation. They aren't comparable.

Anyways,
The thing I really loved about PSO was the fact that in any small amount of time, I could log in, drop to the surface of Ragol, and just murdalize stuff for however long I wanted to. Granted, we all know how tiresome full Caves or Ruins runs were, but this more defined mission system in PSU seems like it will allow for combat to any length of time. One thing that a lot of long-scale MMORPGs fall into is that sometimes people don't have time for the monotonously epic.

[Zorafim]

Well, see, I have time. That's not my problem. My problem is that, I don't want to wait an extra 30minutes-1hour to leave a group, or have to sit down for the entire day once I start something. I don't mind playing for hours, but please, let me leave when I want to.

Oh, by the way. Most of the FFXI forums I see are complaining about the game as well >.>

[Sev]

I don't know much of how fast Guild Wars was, since I didn't play it long. PSO was the fastest game I played though. That's the main appeal of hte game. You don't have to wait around, you can if you want to, but you can moreorless start as soon as you log on. I don't think anyone will have to worry about finding a group and such unless it's for something speciffic, in which case you may need more time then usual.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-06-09 11:10, Zorafim wrote:
Well, see, I have time. That's not my problem. My problem is that, I don't want to wait an extra 30minutes-1hour to leave a group, or have to sit down for the entire day once I start something. I don't mind playing for hours, but please, let me leave when I want to.


Sounds like you and PSU will get along just fine if you ask me.

[OdinTyler]

You must give your life to PSU. Resistance is futile...

...or something like that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Just a guess, but, if I'm right, perhaps each mission (with individual difficulty ranges) should range in how long it takes to complete said mission. There could be quickie ones (maybe even solo ones) or ones for the long haul. Hope that's the case. Then, you can pretty much pick one based on how much time you have to play. If so, that's a nice option.

[Oji_Retta]

You don't even have to complete the mission if you don't want to. You can go down kill a bunch of enemies and then just quit the mission and keep the gained experience. You don't have to go to the end unless you want the mission bonus (job points ans meseta)

[OdinTyler]

Well yes, I know. But what's the point of just experience? You need job skills to really improve your char. I mean sure, you don't HAVE to, but, if you really intend to play for a long time (as I do) & plan to keep your char, it's going to take alot of invested time. I just hope that if you reach the max char lvl (current as of release at least), you can still do missions to get extra job points.

[Sev]

Job levels seem to be set at 20 for now. So after you hit that, you don't necessarily need to complee the missions unless you change jobs.

Still, it's just the point that people have been wondering if they can log on, get in a game, and play. The short answer is yes. The long answer is you may wanna do alot more then that, ALOT more. It won't be a hard game to start into, and it shouldn't be hard to keep up. Unlike other games, you can get right to the fighting if you prefer. After reading the interview, I guess I'm gonna spend the first 2 (That's right... 2 days...) beating the Offline Story and then get Online.

Generally, when the game developer thinks you should try something... You should probably heed the advice a bit.