Human/Newman Specials?

[Kimil]

I know that they already said they werenèt going to get any spacials like Nano blast or SUV, but this doesnèt seem fair. What ideas do you have for a spcial for the other two racesÉà

Mine:

Break Seal - Alows Newmans to use TWO kinds of Technique in another class other then Force after lv 20 only. The Tech is chosen with a Badge. (like nano blast)

Extra room - Humans, at ALL times can have more weapons equpied and can hold more items.

[Alisha]

you fail newmans mst is thier specia ability. they blow everyone else out of the water in mst. and humans created newmans beasts and casts.

[A2K]

I too was thinking of some sort of tech booster for Newmans. Heh, I was kind of hoping the human special would eventually turn out to be Megid. Real Megid, I mean. Only obtainable after level 70 or something crazy like that.

Oh well... it evens out, I think. It doesn't really break the game (although it does suck a bit) for Casts and Beasts to have these special abilities and the Humans and Newmans not to possess such things.

[Alisha]

no it doesnt suck its called balance

[Tycho]

I don't think Casts and Beasts were vastly superior over Humans or Newmans in the first place... Newmans are the best casters, and HUmans the most well-balanced characters. Seems decent to me, especially since we don't really know much about stat growth yet.

[DizzyDi]

This has been discussed and over-discussed.
But as far as we know they aren't getting one, and probably never will.
And it is fair, for two reasons.
1) Humans and Newmans don't really need 'em. Humans are the jack-of-all trades and thats more than good enough. Afterall, being a HUNewman sucks, and being a FOCast/Beast is almost just as bad, but being a FO/HU/RAHuman is acceptable, just not the best. And as for Newmans, well...Thier MST beats out everyone by a LONG SHOT.
2)ST did it so that people would choose Cast and Beast more. Sorta as an incentive. That way Cast and Beasts have a lower chance of being a huge minority in the game.

[Sev]

On 2006-06-08 10:45, DizzyDi wrote:
Afterall, being a HUNewman sucks, and being a FOCast/Beast is almost just as bad



If you haven't played as or with any of those combo's... You should sorta refrain from saying they suck. Stats alone don't make the game... And we only have an idea of how these stats will work in the final game anyway... My only example is this.

People say that RABeast will be the worst Ranger. Yet they'll hit the hardest, but maybe miss the most. You can see how this isn't as bad a people say.

It is true that Human's don't need anything special, and the special trait for Newman's is simply their MST as well as TAP.

[OdinTyler]

Also, let's remember that in any good RPG, you have to have various lvls of learning curves. Humans being the most balance are the easiest to take to & would be considered 'beginner' characters. Casts would be intermediate as you have to get used to healing without spells. Beasts being the all new race, there is a mystery to how easy or difficult they are to raise so they would be considered intermediate to expert (especially if you've played PSO before, Beasts are a sort of bonus to past players).

ST is right to give a couple of races extra abilities as reasons to play as them. I've always said that it made sense. Clearly, ST wants to promote Newmen as the 'best' Forces (giving them the highest MST). As for humans, in any...ANY RPG, a human does not stand out as statistically the best, so to overcompensate would just be overkill & would defeat the purpose of playing as a different race.

The idea is to choose a race & class type suited to how you want to raise your char or how you view the raising of a char. If you want balance, human is the way to go. Just don't expect to be super uber at everything & then be disappointed when it doesn't happen. If you value physical or mental strength more, there are other choices to make.

Class balancing is 1 of the few things really set up in online RPG environment. People claim one particular char better than another without respect to real reasons why. There are some reasons why 1 race may be more effective than another in a particular area, but, that's OK.

It all comes down to this: choose the race you want, choose the class you want. Just don't expect that your choice will be given everything & be sad when it doesn't get all that you expect. If anything, a fantasy setting should remind you to play something different than you're used to & you might be surprised what you uncover.

[Kyuu]

Casts would be intermediate as you have to get used to healing without spells.
That's not really true. Cast Forces can, of course, cast spells. And no one who isn't a force can cast spells regardless of their race. You're thinking of PSO. =P


Clearly, ST wants to promote Newmen as the 'best' Forces (giving them the highest MST).
Obviously, but this isn't new to PSU. Newmans have always had the highest MST (although TAP is now almost certainly the relevant stat for dealing tech damage, not MST). Of course, they have the highest TAP too. The problem being, of course, that having high TAP serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever to any class except Force. Unless there are, as I hope, some mechanics that make TAP useful to Ranger and Hunters (such as perhaps contributing to Photon Art damage), then the Newman "strength" pretty much relegates them to being effective Forces exclusively.

It should be pointed out that the same is not true for any other race. Beast's high ATP, defense, and HP can be put to use by a Force, as Forces are allowed to use melee weapons, and being able to take a hit or two is still useful to them. Newmans are the only race whose strength seems to be entirely negated for two of the three classes. That's what irks me about it.

I'm still going to give newman hunter/ranger a go, and hope that ST didn't make one of their races completely unbalanced.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-06-08 12:54 ]</font>

[Sev]

That's exactly why I believe TAP is going to affect Photon Art and Shot damage as well as Tech effectivness.

It would make perfect sense, and it would make the races truly balanced. I don't see why there would be a stat exclusive to ANY class. And that's why I don't think that MST and TAP will only affect Force's, but other classes as well. It's been said before, Technics encompasses Photon Arts, Shots, and Techs. So those should all be affected by TAP if it really is Technic Attack Power. And as far as MST, I'm still going with Magic Defense and Resist... And things like the effectivness of Healing and Support techs? Maybe... Maybe not...

There all just guesses. Really good guesses if I do say so myself.

[OdinTyler]

On 2006-06-08 12:53, Kyuu wrote:
That's not really true. Cast Forces can, of course, cast spells. And no one who isn't a force can cast spells regardless of their race. You're thinking of PSO. =P



Yes, I was going by past roots. Now, everything is changing.

Obviously, but this isn't new to PSU. Newmans have always had the highest MST (although TAP is now almost certainly the relevant stat for dealing tech damage, not MST). Of course, they have the highest TAP too. The problem being, of course, that having high TAP serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever to any class except Force. Unless there are, as I hope, some mechanics that make TAP useful to Ranger and Hunters (such as perhaps contributing to Photon Art damage), then the Newman "strength" pretty much relegates them to being effective Forces exclusively.

It should be pointed out that the same is not true for any other race. Beast's high ATP, defense, and HP can be put to use by a Force, as Forces are allowed to use melee weapons, and being able to take a hit or two is still useful to them. Newmans are the only race whose strength seems to be entirely negated for two of the three classes. That's what irks me about it.

I'm still going to give newman hunter/ranger a go, and hope that ST didn't make one of their races completely unbalanced.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-06-08 12:54 ]</font>


Perhaps MST was split in half (as I suggested) & that having both a high MST & high TAP would allow for not only high damage techs, but, the ability to keep unleashing them. Perhaps a Ranger can have decent TAP for putting elemental damage into their attacks. That would help their damage, but, they wouldn't be able to unleash the same level of damage as a Force, nor would they be able to do it as the same frequency or consistency as a Force. Hunters would naturally have a lower MST or TAP as they now more than ever will rely on other classes to support them while the melee rely on their physical attacks & their bodies to take the hits, keeping the group alive. In essence, meleers are now part tank (which isn't exactly a bad thing) while still being able to output the damage they're known for.

[Tycho]

I really don't think any of the classes are more for 'beginners' than other ones this time around... I think that's just an illusion from PSO.
As for Newmans and TAP in relation to Hunters and Rangers... now what if TAP affected all elemental composites of damage?

[SirenV]

Yeah, Kyuu, that's what I've been suggesting in different posts. There's something askew about the Numan constitution that doesn't translate well. If you want to make things SO drastically good at one thing only - that thing alone, then they shouldnt have bothered with choice.

If hunters had techs...I mean, sure it'd probably be a waste for a beast or cast [hunter], but they have nano/suv and high attack/def to compensate. Either way, that race durability wouldn't be useless if they were a force, and Numans are constitutionally weak as forces but are so mentally superior that it doesn't matter. (But if hunters got techs, forces might have to have some melee weps so cst/bst attack wouldnt be wasted either). I see balance in that *shrug*, but anyway.

I'm sure anything will work well enough though. Go with what you feel like playing, I'd say. Anyway, if you don't want to give human's or numans specials, let them accel at what they're good at - techs.

Although, Sev, you bring up a very interesting point about TAP - if it truly translated to photon arts. If PA's damage were derivative of TAP over Attack power itself, then, woah. yeah. balance right there. You just got me excited, lol. But if not, TECHS *huffs*

Edit: Also... if (although its not good to make assumptions).. that mystery stat END were the speed at which PP regenerate, then that theory would make Numans competant as hunters, and insane as forces, just as beasts are the opposite. Humans would still be very balanced then, as well - but a bit more adept as hunters than previously thought.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2006-06-08 14:10 ]</font>

[DraginHikari]

It could be possible like in PSO with humans, in PSO humans could be develed easier with the ability to consume more mats and things like that. I know there hasn't been any word on anything like that but it was just a thought.

[Kupi]

Also, you have to consider that there's no way we've seen all that PSU has to offer. If I recall correctly, the Skills in the Beta only relied on physical attack power, but who's to say that there won't be a few that use TAP? Like micro-Techs for melee weapons.

In any case, I'll repeat here what I said elsewhere: a Newman Hunter is still a better tank than a Beast Ranger or a Cast Ranger, even if you combined the best stats of both of them. Even if the HUnewearl is worst Hunter in the game, she's still better at it than someone who isn't a Hunter.

EDIT: And it should be noted that Newmen, with the second-highest ATA in the game and the best EVP, will probably make strong Rangers. So they've got one Type that they're far and away the best at, one they do well in, and the third Type they're merely adequate at. That's fairly well-balanced, I think.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2006-06-08 15:38 ]</font>

[Kimil]

Why are you all saying that Beast Forces suck? I heard that they were decent (if not better then humans) at being forces. Someone said that they are basically like the Fomars from PSO, Good ennough Offensive both through MST nad ATP, plus now they'd have good Def

[Alisha]

On 2006-06-08 17:59, Kimil wrote:
Why are you all saying that Beast Forces suck? I heard that they were decent (if not better then humans) at being forces. Someone said that they are basically like the Fomars from PSO, Good ennough Offensive both through MST nad ATP, plus now they'd have good Def




lol fomars had the 2nd worst dfp. fomarl would probally be a better comparison. if theres some nice robish armor in the retail version i may just make my beast a FObearl. XD



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-06-09 03:46 ]</font>