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Kupi
Oct 19, 2002, 06:36 PM
As I am prone to doing, I've been pondering the mythos of PSO (and for that matter, anything with an unexplained plot point). In particular, I've been formulating a theory concerning the origin of the monsters in the Ruins.

Before we begin, I'd like to state the assumption that leads to the other conclusions. As several of Red Ring Rico's messages imply, the nature of Dark Falz is to search out the strongest body possible. However, it doesn't simply steal this body; it twists and perverts it into a stronger form that Dark Falz then moves through. This is evident in the several forms of the big guy himself. I mean, would you have guessed that Dark Falz's physical form was derived from Red Ring Rico? About the only tangible connection is the power. Recall that Rico was/is the most powerful Hunter on the Pioneer 2.

This assumption in place, it is safe to say that every creature within the Ruins is a perversion of a previous monster, and I'll support this claim with observations of the similarities.

Dimenians: You have to ask? Dimenians are obviously derivatives of the Sharks, by shape and behavior of mindless approach and attack in numbers. They are not, however, derivatives of Boomas. Why not? The bladelike arms. This, I presume, is the result of Dark Falz's intents: to find the perfect body. Boomas (and, additionally, Rappies) are took weak to serve DF's purposes, even if powered up. However, upon their transformation into Sharks by De Rol Le's mutogens, they become strong enough to warrant Dark Falz's attention and get taken over.

(While we're on the subject, wasn't it Dr. Osto who created De Rol Le? De Rol Le then reproduced and mutated whatever got into its caves. So, in a way, we could say that Dr. Osto's experiments are the reason that we're plagued by Dimenians. Argh.)

Belras: Created from Hildebears. Note the Hildebear's main features: large size, lumbering pace, overwhelmingly powerful but slow physical attacks at close range, and a long-range attack that activates if you're too far away. Now, look at the Belra: powerful close-range attack that paralyzes (an addition from Dark Falz, likely), slow pace (ever wait for a Belra to cross a room?), and a ranged attack that activates when you're too far off. Both creatures, as well, are best defeated by attacking from their back or sides, which is easy to accomplish.

Claws: This one's a bit of a stretch, but Claws are probably advanced Mothmants. For one, they're airborn. Second, their attack pattern is similar. The float up, attack, and run away. Lastly, they also have a unit that creates more of them, though they often go without it. Perhaps reliance on a hive was a weakness that Falz got rid of, and instead turned into an advantage. Let's not forget similar appearances; a Bulclaw and a Monest look fairly similar in having a main mass with legs hanging off. I'll admit here that the semblance between the two is strained, but not as strained as...

Dark Gunners: I really struggled to come up with a a beast these annoying grief-bringers could possibly have spawned from. At first, I thought of the Poison Lilies, but Lilies just don't exhibit enough of the behavior besides projectile moves and being extremely annoying to deal with. They can't be Rappies, and Grass Assassins are out of the question. So, finally, I settled on Wolves. The resemblence is hard to grasp, I'm sure, but they do have their similarities. First of all... they're both quadrupedal! Well, besides that, they also have the pack mentality. There are few instances in which you see a lone Wolf, pardon the pun. Note that Dark Gunners attack simultaneously. Wolves, to an extent, do this as well. One circles you one way, and one circles you the other. Unless you've got a spell that'll hit them both, one of them's going to take a shot at you. But, the clinching factor of both behavior is the reaction to their leader's pain. When you kill a Barbarous Wolf, the rest of the Wolves lower their stats. Harm the lead Gunner, and the rest of them short out.

That's all the monsters but a few, which I've separated from the main group specifically. Recall that I've said that Dark Falz takes the body of its victim and twists it to a form that it'll actually want to use. Therefore...

Delsabers: Hunters. Meaning, Hunters from Pioneer 1, and those whose souls have succombed to Falz from Pioneer 2. It's hardly a stretch to say that they fight like a Hunter. Note the three-hit combo and use of a shield to block attacks... as well as looking at the shield like "what the heck is wrong with this stupid thing" when they actually take damage. Such can only be the result of a human's transformation. The jump attack I don't know how to explain... besides reiterating that sometimes Falz adds some new stuff when it changes its victim's bodies.

Chaos Sorcerers: Forces. Do I honestly need to say why? They cast offensive and defensive spells, and use something that looks like a Rod while they're at it. There honestly isn't more to it than that. Like the Dimenian's jumping attack, the teleport seems to be an addition made by Dark Falz.

Chaos Bringers: Hoo boy. With the Hunter and Force slots already taken, these could only be Rangers. That's quite a transformation, eh? Especially in battle tactics. I'd have to say that this is the weakest link in my theory, honestly, but the statement stands. For one, they've got two ways to nail you from afar: either charge you, closing the gap in seconds, or hit you with that rifle of theirs. The standard sword-swinging is an anamoly to me; advanced physical strength is apparently what Dark Falz shifted in these poor lost souls.

In support of the human capture theory, allow me to give this "proof:" examine the enemy part items dropped by each of them. The Delsaber drops a Saber and a Shield; perfect equipment for a Hunter. The Chaos Sorcerer hands over a C-Sorcerers Cane, which isn't just good for Forces, it's *only* for forces. And, finally, the Chaos Bringer gives up its Rifle to Rangers. I suppose it's a "kindred spirit" type of reaction.

Anyway, that's it. I'm done. What do you all think? I welcome opinions and comments either way, for or against. ^_^



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2002-10-19 17:50 ]</font>

RavenTW
Oct 19, 2002, 07:14 PM
I will say right now that that is a very convincing theory. There are just a few things though, only one really matters:

1st. Dr. OSto only found Del Rol Le, he didn't make him.

2nd. You made a typo. The Hunter transformations that you refer to are Delsabers, not Deminions. No harm done, though, right?

3rd(the only plausible one). HOW THE HECK COULD ANIMALS FROM THE FOREST HAVE GOTTEN TO THE RUINS? I mean, seriously, I can understand the caves, but Forest? That's stretching it. And how could a lumbering Hildebear have even fit through one of those halls?

Ok, my own renditions on a couple of the ruins monsters:

Dark Gunners, and maybe even claws. Yes, they have a pack mentality like wolves or Mothmants, but then again, so do...Canidines. I mean seriously, just because he can't take over a machine (due to no soul), that doesn't mean he can't easally reprogram a computer! Then amke the neccessary body adjustments, and viola. Claws resemble Canadines because of the Canane rings, kinda like a Bullclaw. Now, what might contradict this is the fact that claws only attack via the ground, whereas Canidines attack from both the ground and air. But their relation to Dark Gunners is also good, but they only attack via the long distance method. So maybe, Dark gunners and Claws are both reprogrammed Canadines and Cananes, acting like Yin and Yang, each supplying where the other lacks.

Now, for the Dark Belras. If there's any possibility for a Hildebear to wonder into some closed ruins, far be it for me to contradict. But if that's possible, then perhaps Belras might be a hybrid between Hildebears and Garanzes. This combination would give a Hildebear more speed in firing it's long distance attacks, and more power and speed in it's short-range attack. But here's the contradictory evidence: Belras get dizzy. Now I've run circles around Bears several times, and Garanzes too, but they never started to slowly walk around, swaying. This one factor, contradicting the idea of transformed creatures becoming more powerful by DF, could make Belras actually be brand new creations by Falz.

As for the other monsters, your theory is very persueding, as well as logical. It's an interesting an unique idea to beleive that those four humanoid monsters are actually P!(and some P2) Hunters.


EDIT: one last thing: why is this in Fan Works?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RavenTW on 2002-10-19 17:15 ]</font>

Kupi
Oct 19, 2002, 08:01 PM
Hrm... I'll have to go back and play Unsealed Door and Osto's Research to see where the truth lies on that one.

EDIT: Right, I went back and did both quests and found nothing to suggest that De Rol Le was either found or created by Dr. Osto. However, considering that, I found it quite amusing to read the scientist's line: "What was he doing on Ragol? Everything is a mystery..." http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Dimenian/Delsaber snafu fixed.

As for a Hildebear getting into the Ruins... well, you never know. Dark Falz takes its victim body, mind, and spirit. In other words, it would be irresistably drawn to the Ruins, no matter what it might run into... scary thought, eh?

Belras getting dizzy... never thought of that. It may be possible that not all of the changes are positive. Perhaps, then, Dark Falz doesn't improve upon its victim, but exaggerates it both ways if one of the victim's positive traits will be useful when exaggerated. Therefore, a big, powerful, slow, and stupid Hildebear becomes a bigger, even more powerful, slower, and dumber Belra, hence the appearance of dizziness when circled, and the total loss of function when the Dark Gunners' leader is hit, whereas Wolves simply lowered their stats when the leader was killed.

I stand by my implied statement that there are no Mines enemies in the Ruins, primarily because all of the monsters in the Ruins seem... I don't know... too organic to have originated from machines. Machines don't have that innate flexibility that flesh does, in the evolutionary sense. Organic creatures change, and could rapidly be changed. I'll admit that you can change any machine into any other machine, but it's easier to just build a new one. See what I'm saying?

EDIT #2: It's in Fan Works because it's simply questioning the mythos rather than the gameplay, so as long as I was attempting to explain something about the story I might as well put it in the stories section.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2002-10-19 18:35 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2002-10-19 18:37 ]</font>

RavenTW
Oct 19, 2002, 09:49 PM
Ok, I take away one thing, and that's the "getting to the Ruins" part. If you look at the Intro, DF is on the surface when he cause the large explosion, so he could probably have altered the Hildebears there, and then lead them down to the Ruins.

Hmmm...stat balance. An interesting concept. Suggesting that not even Falz has the power neccessary to make a perfectly powerful creature, obviously shown in how many times he gets his/his host's butt handed to him. Makes sense.

As for the Mines enemies, you have to remember that this is a long time in the future. Making practical machinary an art is easy probably at this time, making cool-looking robots that can do what you need done. It's not that hard just to remake a body. But thinking about it, I retract that for a different theory: maybe Falz made copies. Spirits loyal to him fashioned they're own monsters that took on the mentality and basic functions of some of the Mines robots, or maybe Falz made the minds himself, copying the thought patterns of Mines robots. It's possible, but so is the Wolf theory. We could keep debating, but Dad says to take a break, so, uh...I rest my case for a while.

Kupi
Oct 20, 2002, 06:41 PM
First thing: I found something else to relate Claws to Mothmants. They both float out of reach of melee weapons from a distance. Watch a claw if you run away from it; it'll rise higher into the air until it's close. Mothmants do the same thing, except they just lower to attack and don't come down until they do that.

And... quite interesting about the "copy" idea, Raven. Perhaps DF doesn't take over their bodies, but rather mimicks them, hence the evil shift. There's actually a precedent for that; Seth from Phantasy Star 4. After getting its butt kicked by your primarily-humanoid party, Dark Falz took the form of a humanoid. Perhaps we're not seeing the monster's actual body, but just their consciousnesses! Thanks for proposing that, Raven!

Davion
Oct 20, 2002, 08:33 PM
I was wondering. Could there of been living things on the ship that was the ruins? I mean, It's a huge place! Doesn't it make sense that there would scads of things living on it? Or maybe they all died and their bodies were used to create those beasts, but here's my theory.

I believe that gods created the world of PSO, I know it sounds crazy but here me through. The gods formed the creatures of the forest, and their style of attack. Then the gods, being overwhelmed with their own stuff, used the spirits of the forest dwellers and used it as a program in which to form other creatures. That's why they all attack the same! I mean, think about it. The gods could of made a basic model of an animal, and used it to make all of the creatures of Ragol. The wire frame, of sorts of, the Booma could have been used to make all the other basic grunts, and so on and so forth.

I say we bow down and worship the bold, almighty, and "sonic" creators of our favorite world. It's almost like they're a "team." http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

RavenTW
Oct 20, 2002, 09:30 PM
I think you somhow unintentionally reffered to Sonic Team, the creater of PSO and the enemy AI in it.

Really, you liked my mimicing theory? I just thought it up while coming up with some comebacks for what you stated. Thanks for saying so.

KodiaX987
Oct 21, 2002, 09:04 AM
A quick note: De Rol Le, I believe, was not born due to Dr. Osto. Take note that Dr. Osto listed his creature under a serial number, and nothing else. Therefore, how could your hunter computer (teh l337) identify it as a De Rol Le? Simple: Sonic Team just didn't feel like making up a new boss just for one quest.

Therefore, Osto's little creature looks like De Rol Le, acts like De Rol Le, growls like De Rol Le, but is NOT De Rol Le! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Davion
Oct 21, 2002, 12:10 PM
On 2002-10-20 19:30, RavenTW wrote:
I think you somhow unintentionally reffered to Sonic Team, the creater of PSO and the enemy AI in it.

Really, you liked my mimicing theory? I just thought it up while coming up with some comebacks for what you stated. Thanks for saying so.



http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Nidarrock
Oct 21, 2002, 01:45 PM
This is very interesting. I always thought the ruins were a prison ship that crash landed on Ragol. If that is the case I would feel that such a big place would have housed other prisoners. Ruins 3 was where the more spiritual convicts were held. Perhaps its other prisoners that are where Diminians came from? The shark idea is a very sound concept though. However I think Dark Gunners are a security system for the ship. That might describe the fairly different look to them and somewhat odd mechanics for which they work(ex. near invincible when the eye is up, hovering from place to place, shooting a "laser" beam). The things that confuses me with the Belras is that when confused they have an almost "robotic" sound, like it's short circuting(is that a real word?). I like the idea of Pioneer 1's hunters being C. Bringers, Delsabers & C. Sorcerers. I'm just throwing some ideas out there so feel free to shoot my ideas down. I've also been a bit out of touch with PSO for the past few months.

KodiaX987
Oct 21, 2002, 01:50 PM
Methinks the monsters of the ruins are spawned straight out from Dark Falz. The other are just mutations or modifications.

Kupi
Oct 21, 2002, 02:11 PM
It may well be that the Dark Gunners are simply a defense system. As much as whatever civilization sealed this Dark Falz in the ship wants him to stay in it, it's just as much of a concern to keep anyone from letting him out. *flash of inspiration* I got it! What if the ship itself is generating the similar monsters? Think... I dunno, Transformers: Beast Wars, if you want to go that far. The ship needed to develop an appropriate defense system wherever it landed, correct? So, why not imitate the forms of life on the planet? The strongest forms of life will make the strongest defense against whatever gets into the ship!

...but that would mean that Rangers are the strongest form of hunter...

As for the size of the ship itself: remember the view of Ruins 2 from Ruins 1, where you see a pod held in a giant gap? I think that's what it's supposed to be. Think of a multi-tiered dam. If one level breaks, the next one keeps the water from flooding everything. The ship is so huge because Dark Falz is sealed in the very center, and there are multiple seals just in case is escapes from the first one. (What is it with me and water analogies for Dark Falz?)

Thanks for the correction on De Rol, Kodia (I think that's the proper shortening?). Here's another idea, though: remember, Dr. Osto is a scientist. Know how scientists don't call dogs dogs, but canis familiaris? Same deal here: "De Rol Le," or simply "De Rol" may just be the hunter vernacular for it. Scientists call it a Beta772. Hunters call it a De Rol. I hope that makes sense. ^_^

RavenTW
Oct 21, 2002, 03:28 PM
The defense system idea is a lot better than what I thought up. I mean, just becasue a planet looks deserted, people can come anyway. So make some annoying security, perhaps mimic the creatures already on Ragol, and there ya go! But there is a small problem. Dimenians are obviously more like sharks than boomas. Now, Del Rol Le, whether found or created, didn't start mutating the animals until after it got free. Now, whether this makes a difference or not is dependent on when Del Rol Le got free. If he got out a long time before Pioneer 2 got there (which I doubt), then it makes sense. But if DRL's escape was recent, then so are the Sharks. Now, the security system could have made them while you were in the Caves/Mines, so that theory's still in the air.

Also, about Del rol Le, Osto's records state that he can self-replicate himself. So you actually fought TWO Del rol Le's, and possibly an evolved form of Del rol is the Barba Ray, another copy of himself who grew on.

Kupi
Oct 21, 2002, 07:11 PM
Note also that in Dr. Osto's notes, he comments on De Rol's sudden surge in growth after the big earthquake. As you'll recall, From The Depths features earthquakes as a computer starts tampering with the seal (which is likely that crystal thing). Ergo, De Rol probably had a lot of time to replicate and infect stuff. The secret operations fellows on Pioneer 1 were likely at work right away, so whatever amount of Dark Falz slipped out while they were tampering with the seal would have cause De Rol's growth immediately. ...am I going in circles? I think so. I'll stop now.

Kupi
Nov 4, 2002, 09:39 PM
Aha! I just went through on the GCN PSO and found a quote that almost proves my point about De Rol. First scientist next to Mome in Unsealed Door, start of the mission: "I agree that Dr. Osto's research was amazing. But I think he was too arrogant. Creatin a new lifeform is dangerous... It might ever have some bearing on the Pioneer 1 accident." There ya go. Dr. Osto created De Rol.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2002-11-04 18:40 ]</font>

Eve
Nov 22, 2002, 06:27 AM
Have any of you played the earlier PS games ? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

You will know then where Dark Force/Falz originated from,it is a creation of the Profound Darkness .

According to some ps die hrds,the ruins is the ship
Allisa 3 ,from PS3.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eve on 2002-11-22 03:28 ]</font>

rarr
Dec 7, 2002, 10:31 PM
Err, about the Delsaber's jump technique: Couldn't Falz mix and match a little? Both Sinow Beats and Hildebears jump and punch/slash.

Corelton
Dec 10, 2002, 03:33 PM
I just want to say I think that all of your theories and hypothosis are great and really thought out, hey lets just say I took the time to actually read all of it! But anyway umm.. keep up the good "work" and I'll keep reading http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Night_Shadow
Mar 19, 2003, 05:27 PM
I think that maybe the reason why there are monsters in the Ruins is that they are ALL a way to keep anything from reaching Dark Falz. And maybe it was the army of Pioneer 1 that helped Dark Falz. The animals and "guards" on the planet didn't probably have enough emotion for evil, hate, anger, etc. so as the explorers went deeper Dark Falz gained more strength until he could reach out and control the creatures,"guards", and humans. That probably took time to get strenghth so that's why the city is attacked after 7 years.
I only have two questions. How did Dark Falz blow up the Central Dome if he didn't escape till Rico came. Even though Rico came long after the explosion. Finally, how would the city fit in that tiny little dome?

Kupi
Mar 19, 2003, 09:50 PM
Despite what I've said in my fanfic, I think the Central Dome is actually the government center of Pioneer 1's government. The Forest is the road system of the residential area, where they keep the majority of the houses.

sharkie-do
Mar 26, 2003, 12:31 AM
HAH! Thy great Sharkie has found a loophole. After years on ragol, the people of p.1 named the animals of the forest, scientists named the enemies in caves, and mines creatures already had programmed names. So who named the creatures in the ruins? Why of course, the military! They were the first in the ruins so they were named before the great explosion. That means the enemies must be the former recipients of the massive spaceship before it crashed on ragol and shook free Dark Falz who altered them and soon after went back into slumber. As for the natives, they were turned evil but remember the quest, forest of sorrow? The animals young was peaceful and therefore things eventually went back to normal! Voila!

Agree?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sharkie-do on 2003-03-26 17:08 ]</font>