Item: Rares?

[Sevenfold]

Alright, off question. Iv been reading around, but still havent found a direct answer as to wether or not "rares" are still a part of PSU. Now I can put 2+2 together and guess as much. But, I was just curious if anyone knew with some official word somewhere. PS is all about those rares! O_o

[EspioKaos]

Yes, rares are still in the game. When one is picked up, it and the one who collected it are identified to the party. Now the party leader actually has the ability to change how rares are distributed. They can be set to go to whoever picks them up or they can be randomly distributed to party members.

[Sevenfold]

Interesting....Im down for random, that way I dont have to watch idiots run around the level breaking open boxes before they ever attack any enemies. Thank you though.

[ShadowDragon28]

I think many "rares" will be made via Item Synthesis, and some may be findable as enemy drops or perhaps a reward for completeing a challeging mission/quest.

There's little reason I can think of why there wouldn't be "rares" other than this: if their are no "rare" in PSU, then it decresses(sp?) the amount of weapons what hackers could try to make or dupe via hacking. Hacking to make certain Sythesized weapons *may be* a bit more difficult for cheaters/hackers.

But as far as I can dig up, their been only hints of "rare" weapon models, but no official information on "rares" persay from Sonic Team.

PSU I think should be more about the social aspects, and the challenge of making your own weapons and attempting to finish missions with an improved ranking.

"Rares" should only be third or forth on the list of importance IMO.

[Sevenfold]

Perhaps, for me it was just the addictive quality and the "chance" to find one that kept me coming back. Because, even though I loved to level, team, and chit chat, after all thats accomplished (specifically lvling) ....then what?

[ShadowDragon28]

Create a new character? Start up a in-charactrer RP? Play some other game offline for a bit maybe? That's what I would do.

[Sevenfold]

LoL I guess were on two different wavelengths...because even though I have, and will make different toons, my main toon will always be there for the rares.

[ShadowDragon28]

Getting a darn good weapon out of successful Item Synthesis I think will play a geater importance items-wise. Hunting for the the best materials, some of which are pretty darn rare, seem to make-up some of the "rare hunting" aspects of PSU.

Team-work and accomplishing missions/quests with a good ranking/result I think will be most important to an enjoyable game experience online. I believe this is what ST was/is working to achieve.

[Sevenfold]

I like the sound of it, as long as there is a rare aspect in there somewhere. Color me happy.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-28 15:33, ShadowDragon28 wrote:
Create a new character? Start up a in-charactrer RP? Play some other game offline for a bit maybe? That's what I would do.

Many people (like myself) much prefer spending lots of time on one or maybe two characters. Many people (like myself) just aren't really very interested in RPing in a videogame, or writing RPs based on the game. And if we have to play other games... well, I would think Sonic Team's aim is to keep us playing, not make us want to play another game.

Treasure hunting is undeniably a large part of what gives games like PSO and other MMOs their replay value. Sonic Team would have to be very, very foolish to decide to not include rares as a part of PSU.

[ShadowDragon28]

I know many people like to spend lot's of time playing one or two characters. I know of the lack of interest in RP'g in a online game;
even though IMO; PSU is supposed to be a online RPG (Role-Playing-Game), not a somekind of 3-D Chat System with a non-immersive game thrown in as a second-thought.

I wish more PSO and even PSU players *were* interested in actually RP'g to some degree in-game... It would be IMO just as fun as chatting about real-life stuff, current events, one's self etc,etc...

RP'g a character within the context of the PSU world i think would be really fun. I only hope more PSU players felt the same way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

OCC (out-of-character) chatting is fine, but doesn't feel all that immersive in the actual game world and setting IMO.

As for spending lot's of time to gain exp. to level or do repetitive "runs" to hunt for "rares"; there *are* older gamers with college (+assignments from each class), +Work, and a even a girlfriend/wife/kid(s),etc; that such players often don't have the luxury of lot's of spare time to play one or more characters; I deal with such a situation myself. So for older players like me (with very limited spare time) "rare hunting" can feel like a *chore* with near pointlessness to it. IMO.

Squeezing in 2-3 hours out of maybe 2-3 days in a week to play an online game like PSU at most for myself.Sometimes maybe only having 1-2 hours spare time at on two days out of the week.
So I'm thankfull to ST for Extra Mode and the offline "story mode" for those times I don't have 5+ hours to go "rare hunting" online.

I'm sure I am not the only one with very limited spare time to play PSO or PSU online.

IMO the social aspects of PSU, and the special quests/missions should be a large and important part of PSU's "replay value."

With some players, selfishness and greed that can sometimes grow out of repetitive and tedious "rare hunting" and can lead some players to lose sight of what is IMO more important than "rares" and that is one's friends they team-up with.

There will be rare Materials, and probably some rare weapons. IMO I don't think that "rares" or "rare hunting" as such is the "most important" aspect of gameplay, due the highly repetitive nature of "rare hunting" in general.

Special quests/missions, team-work, socializing, and creating one's own weapons & armor units I would think are more important to the replayability of PSU.

Some of the materials needed to make really good and powerful weapons or units can be pretty darn rare. So hunting for them will be pretty important I think.

Overall, it's a matter of time, and what the player values. Is it just "rares"?, or is it the friends he or she makes and teams up with he or she values most? That is something to ponder...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2006-06-29 03:31 ]</font>

[Sevenfold]

Hmm, I get you ShadowDragon28 but, as Kyuu said, treasure hunting was/is a large part of what made PSO so addictive to begin with. Because if you look back at it, imagine PSO without any rares.

All it really is then, is short, small, and ridiculously tedious. (Not that I mind, still addicted me) I can see where your coming from with the whole busy life view but, if you really want to know what people thought the most important part of PSO was, ask around or poll it.

From personal experience though, me, my brother, friends I play/played with loved everything about the game, but rares, rares my friend, are what kept all of us coming back.

[TheGreyCliche]

I wonder if you can change the settings for rare retreival in-game... for instance, if i was the leader of a game and set the rare distribution to random, i would have a chance of getting the rare if someone else found it... now say i kill a purdy little monster and find one myself, could i go and change the settings to "finders keepers", pick up the rare, and then change it back to random afterwards?

it's diabolical... yes... and i PROBABLY would never do it... (unless there was some jerk in the party who i really didn't want getting rares)...

[Lyrise]

On 2006-06-29 10:40, TheGreyCliche wrote:
I wonder if you can change the settings for rare retreival in-game... for instance, if i was the leader of a game and set the rare distribution to random, i would have a chance of getting the rare if someone else found it... now say i kill a purdy little monster and find one myself, could i go and change the settings to "finders keepers", pick up the rare, and then change it back to random afterwards?

it's diabolical... yes... and i PROBABLY would never do it... (unless there was some jerk in the party who i really didn't want getting rares)...



If anyone did that, I would purposely get myself killed several times, blacklist the person in question, then leave.

Going back to rare items though, I think the ultimate rare will definitely live up to their names
It's very likely you'll have to synthesize them. That alone has a probability that you'll fail. If you succeed, you'll still have the daunting task of synthesizing GOOD grinders (believe me, it takes absolutely dumb luck to create a Grinder +10), then with those grinders, you'll have to grind your weapon 10 more times. The first grind is a giveaway, then keeps dropping by about 10% success or so. by +9, if you do get that far, your chance of getting to +10 with a Grinder +10 is about 11%.

For me, having the rare itself isn't good enough, it has to be at full potential too, so it's probably going to take me a year or 2 of attempts just to get one done right.

[ShadowDragon28]

I agree totally on youur point about rares Lyrise.

[Saner]

rares are important but these games are not only about substances.

[Kyuu]

After reading the whole rant about busy life and blah blah blah, I have to say I don't get your point. If you're too busy to play much, then you're going to play less than those with more time. Obviously, they'll have more time to level up and find rares. But them's the ropes, kid. I'm not sure what exactly you're saying, really.

And as I've stated in another thread, the fact that PSU is in the RPG genre does not, in any way, shape, or form, imply or demand that people have to RP their character. That is completely ludicrous. Tell me how you RP your own original character in FFVII, or Grandia 2, or most RPGs that aren't online and let you create your own character. You're free to wish whatever you want, but people don't have to enjoy what you enjoy, and many don't. I enjoy just chatting with people, and playing the game. The gameplay, the social aspects, the style (art and so forth), and the treasure hunting are what I love about PSO and PSU. I don't feel the need to inject the character I play with any personality other than my own. (Just to point out, I did RP actively on a forum in high school and for a little while afterwards, and enjoyed it. Videogames just don't appeal to me as a platform for RPing, though. Probably just because I prefer the space and time of being able to write large chunks of story at once, as well as playing off others' (hopefully) well thought-out posts. Oh, and not having to deal with cat-girl RPers is nice. ^_^)

Also, I dunno why so many people think it's "very likely" you'll have to synthesize the best rares. I totally disagree. The chance of failure after you find the rare ingredients will add nothing but unneeded frustration. I don't doubt that there will be rares you can synthesize, but I think (and hope) plain-old drops will constitute the majority.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-06-29 20:42 ]</font>

[Sevenfold]

Im with you Kyuu. *Prays for drops*

[TheGreyCliche]

I roleplay all the time...

...just not with video games. OH! giggidy giggidy goo!!

[Alielle]

On 2006-06-29 21:34, TheGreyCliche wrote:
I roleplay all the time...

...just not with video games. OH! giggidy giggidy goo!!



So you mean like... D&D?

Where's the Mountain Dew?!

[TheGreyCliche]

On 2006-06-29 21:45, Alielle wrote:

So you mean like... D&D?

Where's the Mountain Dew?!



well... yeah...

And when i put on my cloaks and tell worlock jokes, I'M THE COOLEST KID IN THE SCHOOL!

[Lyrise]

On 2006-06-29 16:38, Kyuu wrote:

Also, I dunno why so many people think it's "very likely" you'll have to synthesize the best rares. I totally disagree. The chance of failure after you find the rare ingredients will add nothing but unneeded frustration. I don't doubt that there will be rares you can synthesize, but I think (and hope) plain-old drops will constitute the majority.




Whether you like it or not, synthesis will play a big part in your rare and its abilities even if the rare is dropped.

Unless you don't care about having the absolute best weapon, then you need synthesis to punch out some grinders (Grinders don't fail, but what varies is the level of grinder you get, from 1-10).

And then you get to play russian roulette with the grind system.

That in mind, I would rather the best rares be synthesized. At least I should be able to create 2 or 3 before the board dies out. That and the fact that should a weapon/rare be godlike powerful, having to find a rare board and rare ingredients to create a rare weapon would be a good balancing act. (I don't need to see a situation like on PSO where EVERYONE has an Excalibur)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-06-29 22:26 ]</font>

[phunk]

After reading through this thread I'm getting the feeling that PSU won't be as casual as PSO when it comes to gameplay. In a way, I'm actually excited to hear that but I hope it doesn't get to the point where it becomes a grind with synthing weapons etc.. as do other major MMOs.

[ShadowDragon28]

1) My point was that IMNHO; only focusing on, and placing top importance on "Rare hunting" above all else has its drawbacks IMO and even though may be addicting to many, to some people it may not be so "addicting";

For some players,like myself, due to limted time to play online; "rare hunting" can grow into a fruitless, and repetitve chore, with little to no reward and not very fun at all.
In-My-Experience. Not saying it's some universal phenomenon.

2) I Never said anyone "had" to RP, or "must" RP.

Only expressing my view that it is a bit disappointing to me IMO; that there wasn't more interest among PSO players wanting use their imagination, and use that to in some degree RP their character in the context of the game world. I'm not talking about fleshing out full plots or sub-plots with one's characters in some kind of story, just lighthearted RP via dialogue.

It was just a mild disappointent, only expressing my views, nothing more.

3) IMO some mild RP could make the game a bit more fun for a player and maybe for others, lessing the monotony of doing Area 1-A for the 1000 times trying to find the special "shiny widget."
The monotony can be reduced via chatting as well, but things can get carried away In-my-experience.

IMO only chatting about real-world/real-life stuff all-the-time can be distracting and is often a detrement to the game's sense of *immersion* IMO.

In PSO, this had happened quite a bit in my experience; sometimes extended and continuous chatting had spilled into the team during gameplay to an excessive degree, that IMV tended to not be so fun IMO.


4) Now, about RP with Grandia III,etc; a player would obviously not RP a character in Gradia III, or FF 7 due to all the characters being pre-created, give scripted personalities, goals & dialogue; and centrally the story is for the most part is pre-scripted, and over-all linear. The gameplay flow and storyline are very tightly "pre-scripted."

So RP within those games are not open to any level of RP within them. the RP'ng comes in the form of player made choices, and the gaining exp & level uplearning new attacks or spell are all "rpg" flavored. But still pretty closed in nature.

Thankfully Cloud doesn't start talking about gas prices, or how he had to work 2 hrs of overtime at MacDonalds.

For example: In FF VII or Grandia you can't type in " Bahamut is a powerful Guardian Force" and have it pop-up as a speech bubble above Cloud's head.

With PSO, or PSU the player can if they *choose* RP a personality/archetype that has little to do with how they are IRL.

I am not saying any level of RP'g is "required." Not saying or implying anyone or everyone "should RP", and neither was I implying that everyone has to want to do the same thing I want to.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2006-06-30 03:44 ]</font>

[Pheromone]

deleted by me

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pheromone on 2006-06-30 06:14 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-29 22:22, Lyrise wrote:

Whether you like it or not, synthesis will play a big part in your rare and its abilities even if the rare is dropped.

Unless you don't care about having the absolute best weapon, then you need synthesis to punch out some grinders (Grinders don't fail, but what varies is the level of grinder you get, from 1-10).

And then you get to play russian roulette with the grind system.

That in mind, I would rather the best rares be synthesized. At least I should be able to create 2 or 3 before the board dies out. That and the fact that should a weapon/rare be godlike powerful, having to find a rare board and rare ingredients to create a rare weapon would be a good balancing act. (I don't need to see a situation like on PSO where EVERYONE has an Excalibur)

Really? EVERYONE has an Excalibur? I have seen very few Excaliburs on PSOBB. The only people who have it in abundance are known dupers, and/or teams consisting of many level 100+ players who have probably wasted a month or two of their life doing nothing but hunting for that weapon.

Also, your point about grinders is irrelevant. We are talking about rares, not the grinding system.

Further, as I have stated, it is my opinion that having to find a board, a rare ingredient, and have the chance for your synthesis to fail is merely asking for lots of frustration and a total waste of time.

As far as I'm concerned, grinding is a broken system unless there is some way to restore a "trashed" weapon to usability. Who is going to risk losing the rare weapon they found just for a chance to upgrade it slightly? Choosing between having a nice, ungrinded weapon, and a useless piece of trash from a failed grind, I think I'll choose the former. The only things people will grind are the common weapons and synthesized weapons which they can make more of.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-06-30 10:33, Kyuu wrote:
Really? EVERYONE has an Excalibur? I have seen very few Excaliburs on PSOBB. The only people who have it in abundance are known dupers, and/or teams consisting of many level 100+ players who have probably wasted a month or two of their life doing nothing but hunting for that weapon.


Given the new drop rates on PSOBB, maybe I was exaggerating it a little. But it still stands that with the new drop rates, it's become increasingly more apparent that more and more people have them and have found them.




Further, as I have stated, it is my opinion that having to find a board, a rare ingredient, and have the chance for your synthesis to fail is merely asking for lots of frustration and a total waste of time.


This is your opinion and I respect that. But my take on the situation is that even if you have to synthesize the rare, there's still elements that you can control to change the situation, such to the point where it can almost be considered your fault if synthesis fails.

You can see your success rate of synthesis. If you think it's too low, don't just go ahead with the synthesis process; raise your PM more so that the success rate goes up.

Not only that but the rares you'll synthesize will most likely have a degree of customizability as the choice of ingridents you use affect the outcome (not success rate) of your item. I for one would love to have an item I could really call my own, with unique stats and elements, as opposed to a fixed item where everyone who has it will have the exact same stats as every other item of the same kind floating out there.

The rare ingredients/board isn't even too big an issue given the new shop system. If you can't find it, let someone else do it. Make some money from your own shop, then go browse the shops of other players to find what you need.



Also, your point about grinders is irrelevant. We are talking about rares, not the grinding system.

As far as I'm concerned, grinding is a broken system unless there is some way to restore a "trashed" weapon to usability. Who is going to risk losing the rare weapon they found just for a chance to upgrade it slightly? Choosing between having a nice, ungrinded weapon, and a useless piece of trash from a failed grind, I think I'll choose the former. The only things people will grind are the common weapons and synthesized weapons which they can make more of.



Grinders ARE relevant. I don't know about you, but if I find a rare item, I'm going to use it to full potential. To do that, I have to grind it to max, which is insanely improbable but still possible. In a sense, it makes the rare even more rarer, which was the point no? Sure x number of people might have a certain rare, but how many people can say it's grinded to a certain point?

Additionally, Sonic Team knows what they are doing. This grind system is far from broken, it's actually an exceptional moneysink. In fact, I'd almost go so far as to say this is the biggest moneysink in game, and will do a LOT to protect the economy from becoming lopsided like in PSO, where meseta has very little worth. I could go on for pages on why this is very important, but this thread, as you've already said before, is about rares.

Grinding in PSU isn't the same grinding in PSO; it's not a slight upgrade, it's a huge upgrade. 1 Grind can take weapon stats up anywhere from 5-20. Just 3-5 successful grinds can take a weapon to a whole new level, to the point where your item isn't what it used to be, it's like a whole new item.

It all boils down to your personal taste. You might like to have a rare like a trophy, that's fine and I won't argue with that. But for me, I want to strive for perfection. To do that would require the best rares at max grind. Other players who want to achieve this level like me (a LOT of the Japanese follow this philosophy as well) are basically the people who are going to put the rares on the line, willing to accept the fact that breaking is possible if that's what it takes to perfect a character.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-06-30 18:01 ]</font>

[ShadowDragon28]

Lyrise that was an *excellent* post. I very seldomly directly say such. I hope we can team up in PSU. Peace.

[PALRAPPYS]

Okay... exactly how do you grind weapons? And what are these ingredients, synthesis, and the board all about?

[Sevenfold]

I really havent grabbed the whole Synthesis deal yet. But as far as gringing goes...You go to the shops when you find grinders, which generally speaking fall from enemies/boxes. From there, the shop brings up options to where you take the particular weapon you want to grind, and lets you use the ginders you found to up the weapons stats.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-02 14:35, Sevenfold wrote:
I really havent grabbed the whole Synthesis deal yet. But as far as gringing goes...You go to the shops when you find grinders, which generally speaking fall from enemies/boxes. From there, the shop brings up options to where you take the particular weapon you want to grind, and lets you use the ginders you found to up the weapons stats.



Grinders don't drop from anything, you have to create them. Reason for it is because grinder quality can vary, and this has an effect of grinding success. Everything else is right though, with one point missing: when you grind a weapon, you have to take it to a shop that corresponds with the brand of the weapon you are trying to grind. GRM weaponry? Go to the GRM shop on Parum. You get the idea.

On to the rest of the questions asked:
Synthesis is just the term used to cover "Item creation". Boards are the limited-use "recipes" you need for the creation of items (think cake mix). Ingredients? Pretty self-explanatory isn't it?

[Sevenfold]

So basically even grinders fall under the synthesis category, yes?

[Zinsian]

i wouldnt name created weapons or synthesized weapons to be a rare.
rares should be found at the end or during a LIMITED time offer quest and as prizes from official contest held by Sega.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-02 16:35, Sevenfold wrote:
So basically even grinders fall under the synthesis category, yes?



Yes they do. Just to make it easy to understand how easy they are to synthesize, 2 points make that possible: 1. They don't fail. 2. You can buy the parts to create a grinder at any synthesis shop.



On 2006-07-03 03:03, Zinsian wrote:
i wouldnt name created weapons or synthesized weapons to be a rare.
rares should be found at the end or during a LIMITED time offer quest and as prizes from official contest held by Sega.



So by that logic, if you have an item that is created by a rare board and requires rare ingredients, it wouldn't be considered rare?

If you could find rares at the end, that just makes the accessibility a little too easy. There's a reason the community affixes the term "Rare" to this kind of stuff, as opposed to "Special Item."

Prizes from Sega? The term wouldn't be "rare", it'd be "unique". Rare is just term for saying that its uncommon, but its still possible to get. "Unique" would be best for this situation as chances are, if it came from a contest from Sega, the supply is limited, and there's no possible way for you to acquire one outside from getting the ones that already exist. If it's anything like what Maximum Attack events do on PSO already, then its far from being rare, the items that you'll get.

[Sevenfold]

Zinsian, they were already doing stuff like that in PSO. The chainsawd I believe it was, was one weapon you could get from completing missions for a limited time. I see them doing it again for PSU.

[Saner]

so that's where the chainsawd came from??

they sure come up with kooky rare designs. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Maybe there should be a Whopper weapon http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/burger.gif

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-04 10:27, Saner wrote:

Maybe there should be a Whopper weapon http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/burger.gif

They already had a hamburger mag, what more can you want? =P

[Saner]

On 2006-07-04 10:38, Kyuu wrote:


On 2006-07-04 10:27, Saner wrote:

Maybe there should be a Whopper weapon http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/burger.gif

They already had a hamburger mag, what more can you want? =P



A hamburger Partner Machinery? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

taht would be so cool in it's Battle Burger form! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/burger.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

*it would shoot tomato discs,

*fire a lettuce net to immobilize foes,

*spray cheese slices that randomly tranforms enemies into frenchfries, hotdogs, and soft drinks!

*the buns are like its armor,

*and the hamburger is its power source! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Sevenfold]

Saner...just open up a BK instead of getting PSU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif