Getting Experience from non-battle actions?

[Ryo_Hayasa]

It just hit me, last night. i was playing Blue Burst, and being the FO i was i was supporting all my team mates, though, by the time i had gotten them all buffered up, and did all the healing for them (they were being hit left and right, and required constant heals)

the monsters were all gone, so...
would this make sense, getting experience from doing things like supporting your party, and healing them? say, you get a proportional amount of exp from healing your party (Exp : HP healed ratio)
and support techs ( Character level: Tech Level: Stat Increase)

That was FO could take on an exclusive role of being supporters. sure, Jellen and Zelure were there for a reason, but what if baddies died to quickly?

This does produce the problem of, "what if people power level by just causing damage to themself and heal. or worse yet, get your max level Cast to 1 hp and heal them.

Well what if it were only set in certain battle situations? or if you were in the "battle" mode. (near monsters)

I don't know, it was just a thought.

[ajenteks]

Eh, just use an offensive spell once in a while. The best experience points are given by the bosses anyways. The problem with a formula that grants experience for healing or support spells is that it would be much easier for bots to level up, let alone for a party to just get beat up much more than they would normally and let some lowbie FO heal their lifebars many times over.

Monsters in PSO, and I'm guessing in PSU, are for the most part a limited resource in each instance (with the exception of the slimes, mothverts and rocobots, none of which give much experience) and as such the amount of experience that you can get each in each instance is more or less calculated and known. The system that you're talking about would be too variable and prone to abuse.

Also, these are hack-and-slash games. There's no specific need for any class of characters, and any character can heal easily with items or spells. I'd rather have a Force with high damage output and S/D instead of fussing over my HP bar when it's more TP efficient for me to just use a crap resta on myself anyways.

[Saner]

tagging for exp is best.


people who finish off monsters get bonus exp anyways so it is balanced and keeps players active than absolutely doing nothing and still getting exp for it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/ducky.gif

the "be close enough to the party to get exp" is not teamwork, that's just LEECHING. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif so I'm glad PSU doesn't work that way.


and exp for healing would not work because then people would exploit it by hanging around like some safe spot, a friend would go get hit on purpose,
then come back to get healed and their friend gets exp for healing them over and over and they would keep doing that to farm exp, especially if both of them can use resta.

[ajenteks]

On 2006-06-29 14:23, Saner wrote:

the "be close enough to the party to get exp" is not teamwork, that's just LEECHING. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif so I'm glad PSU doesn't work that way.



After more thought, with the ability to kick players, that wouldn't be too big of a problem.

[Pure-chan]

I wouldn't mind if PSU distributed a fractional amount of exp to FOrces for enemies killed by players buffed with Shifta. Not that it has to be as much as tagging an enemy for direct damage - but some exp would be nice, since your action is increasing the damage done to enemies. Balance-wise I think that it would need to be X% of the exp gain from jellen or zalure, since they need to casted on every mob (rather than once per X time limit on a teammate).

With some careful balancing, I feel that it could be done in a way that - while not providing an unfair advantage for forces - clearly encourages the use of support techs for party members.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-06-30 16:40 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

Pure-chan, nice idea.

but, its not really needed. an ally w/ shifta will kill the monster faster, meaning the force will gain exp faster. plus dont forget that you will gain technic exp pts every time you cast shifta/deband/jellen/zalure/resta/anti etc.

when i was playing in the beta, and i saw an ally poisoned or low on HP, i wanted to heal them even more than i normally would. b/c it was helping me level up my support tech levels.

[Ether]

How does the exp in PSU work? I assumed it was the same as PSO, everyone who tags a monster gets at least 80% Thus a deduction system for casting shifta wouldnt exactly work, since the monsters exp is not being divided up from a set 100% to begin with

[Saner]

On 2006-06-29 14:42, ajenteks wrote:


On 2006-06-29 14:23, Saner wrote:

the "be close enough to the party to get exp" is not teamwork, that's just LEECHING. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif so I'm glad PSU doesn't work that way.



After more thought, with the ability to kick players, that wouldn't be too big of a problem.




ah ha.

but then the kicking players feature would mean sadistic players who form parties would then kick everyone to annoy them.
and they can simply make a new character to avoid being identified. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Ryo_Hayasa]

Hmm, well i thought it would be a good ideal. Though i knew deep down it just wouldn't work, it would be easy to find a way around it and suck up Exp. but you know, what about those support FO's who just plan on being support and heal, since, well:

Six in a party, Two FO's, one nukes, the other buffs, exclusively. i donno, then again that really is WHY Jellen and Zalure are for.

[A2K]

KOTOR does an interesting thing by awarding experience points not just for battles but for pushing the plot further. I don't think, though, that such a thing would be appropriate for PSU.

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-06-30 17:45, Inazuma wrote:
Pure-chan, nice idea.

but, its not really needed. an ally w/ shifta will kill the monster faster, meaning the force will gain exp faster. plus dont forget that you will gain technic exp pts every time you cast shifta/deband/jellen/zalure/resta/anti etc.

when i was playing in the beta, and i saw an ally poisoned or low on HP, i wanted to heal them even more than i normally would. b/c it was helping me level up my support tech levels.



You know, that actually occured to me after I made that post, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Although really, leveling up your techs by casting support spells should add an interesting new facet to the game.

BTW, your messenger name sounds pretty familiar to me. Is there any chance that you used to run around as a megid-slinging foney of the 'green magic' variety? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Inazuma]

yea, my first GC char was a green fonewearl named Midori Maho. i later started her over w/ the name Mahou-chan.

what char did you play? add me on msn or aim sometime.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Personally, I really do like PSO's system of distributing exp. One could argue that Forces have the best exp gathering ability, since they can just tag everything with J/Z then sit back and let others finish the enemies off. I assume PSU will operate similarly.

[Zinsian]

i get what your saying. But I think they should rework the system just a little.
Your stats should be increased and decreased based upon your usage of a certain skill. there should be Skill Levels and a overall level.

for example ill used two characters, A and B. A is a force. B is a ranger.

A barely uses her offensive techniques and her Skill level in Offensive magic would be pretty low. But...
She uses her Support techniques to help the ranger out (health, mana, temporary boost) and her skill level in Support magic will be increasingly high. You would than take your top 5 or top 3 high skill levels and average them to get your overall level. You wouldnt have to do that though cause the game will average it for you.
Lets move on.
B the ranger has never hit an opponent directly and physically in his life. This will cause his strength to remain low causing him to walk slower and hold less item in his inventory. However...
B has great dexterity and knowledge of handling ranged guns. he constantly uses and practices with ranged weapons increasing his dexterity skill. With this aiming lockons will be more widespread (aka Gunner awareness). So he doesnt have to look directly at an opponent to lock on. however there will be a limit because 360 instant turns to lock on is ridiculous. with more guns played with, his knowledge of handling them is increased opening him self to a wider variety of guns. if he recieved a rare gun at LvL 45 (highy doutbful) but cant use it because his ranged weaponry skill is at say lvl 23. but he requires a higher level of ranged weaponry skill. he will hav to practice with other guns more often and master lower level guns. later when he is more leveled and his knowledge of guns increased, he will be able to use that rare.
However, just because he can use it doesnt mean he'll go on a killing spree. He has to master it and unlock its full potential just like the others. there should be 3 stages for each weapon, novice, intermediate, and master. the more you use a certain weapon , the higher weapon stage you will have. see where im going with this???

[Zinsian]

I forgot to mention one more thing. In response to EXP Points, EXP should be used to increase the exp points of certain MAJOR skills which will have effects on your MINOR skills. then the minor skills under a certain MAJOR skill (dexterity, awareness, speed under the MAJOR skill of ATA) would be averaged to determine the MAJOR skill level of ATA. Same goes for the other MAJOR Skills. Then the MAJOR skill Levels would be averaged to determine your overall level.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-07-03 02:33, Zinsian wrote:
i get what your saying. But I think they should rework the system just a little.
Your stats should be increased and decreased based upon your usage of a certain skill. there should be Skill Levels and a overall level.


I thought this is what PSU was already going to do. I didn't play Beta so correct me if I'm wrong, but let's take a Force for example.

First they have their base level, which goes up from experience from defeating enemies in the field.

Next there is the level of their Technics. You'd first buy a disk from the store (level 1 by default?) and as you use them, the level of said Technic would increase.

(not sure on this part) Next is your Force level, which gains experience from completing missions. This level modifies your base stats, which gears your towards being a Force. Changing to Hunter, for example, would change your base stats and gear you toward being a Hunter.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-06-30 23:43, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Personally, I really do like PSO's system of distributing exp. One could argue that Forces have the best exp gathering ability, since they can just tag everything with J/Z then sit back and let others finish the enemies off. I assume PSU will operate similarly.



For tagging for exp. system, I too think that PSO's system isn't all that bad in that regard. True, Fo's could tag everything easily with a good tech. But they'll rarely get the finishing bonus exp. for the final kill (on ultimate anyways) that rangers and hunters would get. So it's balanced in that regard.

What I think ISN'T balanced is that hunters seems penalized or discouraged for using a weapon that'll target only one enemy. With hunters + rangers without slicers now, tagging would be a bit more trickier with spread shots, spears, swords,etc. But I find that as a waste of time if I want to specialize solely in a saber. I'd just want to jump right into the action and not worry about those group of enemies on the other side of the room I'm missing out on instead of the 1 or 2 right infront of me.
Maybe they're just encouraging players to be more versatile and use all types of weapons on a given mission.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-03 09:35, chibiLegolas wrote:

What I think ISN'T balanced is that hunters seems penalized or discouraged for using a weapon that'll target only one enemy. With hunters + rangers without slicers now, tagging would be a bit more trickier with spread shots, spears, swords,etc. But I find that as a waste of time if I want to specialize solely in a saber. I'd just want to jump right into the action and not worry about those group of enemies on the other side of the room I'm missing out on instead of the 1 or 2 right infront of me.
Maybe they're just encouraging players to be more versatile and use all types of weapons on a given mission.



It's not that much trickier. PSU offers much larger mobs of enemies than what most people are used to in PSO; making it really easy to group them up. Put them together, then slam on your PAs. There are a good number of PAs that have very good crowd control abilities, so tagging them isn't really an issue.

[Saner]

ya tagging is great. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

if you want exp from that monster, you have to contribute some damage or attempt to damage it to earn that exp. it's only fair.

[Kyuu]

Aye, like Lyrise said... with the Photon Arts, even "single-hit" weapons like daggers, sabers, etc. can still be used for crowd control since their PAs will toss groups of enemies around like rag dolls.