Androids, the best race this time around?

[EnixBelmont]

After reading about all the classes stats and everything....It seems like the game really favors Androids. They have the best ATA, 2nd best attack and HP, best defense, and worst magic. But now that magic is a force exclusive, Androids completely overshadow Humans and Newmans that aren't forces. They have SUV weapons, where humans and newmans have nothing,and they have MUCH better stats than Humans and Newmans for Hunter and Ranger class.

Not only that, but they seem like they will end up being better than beast as well. More defense and less HP seems like they will be about even in durabiltity, and although the beast has a bit more attack, they have abysmal ATA. Going from previous experience on PSO, on the higher(highest, rather) difficulties, everything became much harder to hit. This may end up making beasts suck later in the game(Although be a bit better until then, probably) Androids would have no trouble at all with this, on the other hand...And the fact beasts have bad accuracy makes them a worse choice for rangers, too, IMO. IIRC, Androids are still immune to most status effects, right?

Of course, this is just going on what I know. Humans may have a slight edge, or Androids a weakness I dont know about.This may not even be true for the real game, this is just an observation of what I know.

[Disasteroid]

Any and all meatbags are inferior to machines.


http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/108/anchorman5nh.jpg
It's science.

[tank1]

Us meatbags created you and we can reach for the off switch XD. But seriously you do sound like you have a point EnixBelmont Cast's may just end up being the most powerful overall by the end of the game.
But im still going Human.

[Kyuu]

Casts are susceptable to all the same status effects as the other races, I believe.

Also, don't forget that it doesn't seem there'll be difficulties this time around, so it's likely there won't be any sudden jump in enemies' evade levels that makes accuracy as huge a factor as it is in ultimate in PSO.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-04 03:22 ]</font>

[EnixBelmont]

Well, I wasnt sure about the status effects. Thats good that it is the same now.

And from what I hear, instead of difficulties, there are ranks for each mission. As in Say mission 1: battle training will have 4 ranks, C, which you can do at any level, B. which you must be level 20 for, A, which you need level 40 for, and S, which has a level 80 requirement. Thats what I heard, am I wrong? Of course these are just examples, I only heard there were 4 ranks for missions and you need to be level 20 to do the second rank http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And I cant blame you for going human, they can do any job well. So if you want to switch, they'd be the best. They also look the most normal.(But I like casts the best, personally, in looks)

[Neural_Nebula]

Hmm... now I like to play defensive strategies whenever I can 'cause competitively it seems to screw with people's minds that they can't breach my defenses - but yet I wish to have a beast as my main which are aggressive as hell, who knew?! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif - and raw durability and HP amount - plus agility/evasion to some degree - are always things to factor in.

Yet I always find that people ignore the importance of HP - from MY experience that is - but in my eyes it goes mo' HP > mo' Defense. Why? Because when there are two - if not more - different natures that one can receive damage from usually you can only bolster the one defensive stat no (as in physical or magical.)?

So, when you look at HP now... it is also a 'durability' stat' yet it serves to guard you against any form of assault, that is... it increases your longevity versus attacks of any nature be it magical, physical or what have you. But then again, it is often the case that you must raise your HP a lot for it to be useful, as in high enough so that you can withstand that uber-pwnage-kablamo-blast but hey... when you do, it'll be the HP saving your hide rather than your defense since if you happened to have moseyed on over to that area earlier that shielding value just wouldn't have cut it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

So HP = better general durability. Defense = can serve a better purpose than HP if it's specialized.

Um, yeah... so I'm groggy right now, and I've more than likely beat around the bush so if you've managed to pry out my 'point' then more power to you. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

(BTW yeah, the casts look mondo kewl this time around. I may find myself having a hard time sharing the 'air-time' between my two characters because of that.)

[Alisha]

SUV's are cool but are inferior to nano blasts from what ive seen. the damage output and utility of nano blasts seems far greater than that of SUVS. plus SUVs i believe take up unit slots and require a special types of armor.

[EnixBelmont]

I think Nanoblasts seem better too. But SUVs > Nothing, which is what Humans/Newmans have.

And in general, HP does > Defense, but since Androids have close HP(second best) anyway, I say they are equal. Although I dont know anything about monsters in this game, in battlemode, Defense is probably more useful. Since 75% of all players will be Hunters or Rangers(50% hunters, 25% ranger) and only forces get magic now, defense is a bit more useful. And most of those forces will be Newmans, which IIRC has the best evasiveness. Not good for beasts. Regardless, the difference will probably be so small it will barely make a difference, which is why I say they have equal Durability.

Can anyone confirm what I said about ranks? I may be wrong, and I'd like a confirmation...

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I don't care, I'm picking whatever I want, which are meatbags.

[EnixBelmont]

....Just to be clear, the purpose of this topic was to say androids seem to be more advantageous this time around, not to make fun of anyone that plays as a human or newman. I was just stating they seem better.

[_glowstiq_]

So if humans are "meatbags," would a Beast be a really, really rare steak? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Tough and whatnot?

[Sevenfold]

Oddly enough thats really all speculation EnixBelmont. I would like to think Casts are the best only because Im a Cast for life myself http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif But, I say just wait for the release, well all know for sure then.

[Saner]

even if they are the best race for certain things, many people will just play as whatever they like.

[Sevenfold]

Agreed, even if Casts werent the best, and perhaps were the weakest, they would still be my choice.

[Saner]

Casts? Weak? Haaaahahahahahahaha! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/ducky.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Saner]

On 2006-07-04 09:16, Saner wrote:
Casts? Weak? Haaaahahahahahahaha! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/ducky.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



huh? how come that title thing under my name says Battle Fiend???? O.O

who comes up with these titles????? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Sevenfold]

O_o. Buwhaha!

[Saner]

lol I'm not a fiend. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Neural_Nebula]

Course you are, you fiendish emoticon spammer you. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Oh and while there's the sound of senseless laughter ringing in the air, mind if I cut in? (http://ytmndlols.ytmnd.com/) *Guffaw, snigger, giggle, chortle, snicker, hee-haw! < o_O;* LOLsawr.

Yeah, so I put too much sugar in my tea. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Saner]

On 2006-07-04 09:47, Neural_Nebula wrote:
Course you are, you fiendish emoticon spammer you. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Oh and while there's the sound of senseless laughter ringing in the air, mind if I cut in? (http://ytmndlols.ytmnd.com/) *Guffaw, snigger, giggle, chortle, snicker, hee-haw! < o_O;* LOLsawr.

Yeah, so I put too much sugar in my tea. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



*falls face flat*

WAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAAAA http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Must...maintain sanity...for...3 months..longer. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Kers]

Beasts don't sound second best to a Cast as a hunter to me. There wasn't any material drops in Beta, but there should be more ways to raise your choice of stats. Casts could go for more power, and beasts more accuracy.

PSO misses are replaced by zero damage hits, as everyone who videos from beta knows. I couldn't determine if zero hits interrupt attacks, but, if so, having decent accuracy would be much less important.

As stated, defense effects physical damage. Well, Mental Strength could effect certain status effects or resistances.

[AzureBlaze]

What's so great, is that there is such a big unknown quantity here.
Most of your PSO life is spent above lvl 100, while the demo only let anyone get to 30. As was mentioned, there can be huge stat differences once people get above 100. (It is assumed that the cap is 200 or higher, given the easyness of everyone reaching 30 in the short time the demo provided, even though there was no "Powerleveling" quest or boss run.) So no one really knows how most characters will be for most of their lives.

Flaking Out
On an earlier post someone complained that there were no PBs. The VERY valid counterpoint was that PB was nearly useless later on. Let's hope ST learned their lesson here, and it doesn't get that way for beast and cast. I mean, what if everyone had to nanoblast just to hit a boss and then cast SUV did as much damg as golla on ult fallz? It doesn't seem likely because of all the varieties of SUV, and then nanoblasts should lvl along with their beast. (so if you were effective before the NB, then you will be moreso while it is on)

Can't discount the FO
Everyone is also used to techs being somewhat mediocre later on due to DCPSO and somewhat GCPSO on ult where stuff had these enormous resistances. But how will FOs stack up later on? As for dumping on humans/newman, all that balancing has to be good for something, and we also know that newman will have a huge MST advantage over everyone else. (they spacifically say cast and beast are bad at magic) And we also know there's spells and levels of spells that no one's even TRIED yet.

So that just leaves humans...
It's hard for me to believe ST would dump them as 'worst at everything' but even if they are, you know you'll see 82385 HUmars. But it remains a mystery for now.

As for this whole androids may be superior thing...can't say I mind! I was worried I couldn't take point any more with beast having more ATP (we'll see about that! must find new god/power++) but so long as I can waste a whole lotta stuff while looking totally awesome, I'm good.

Argh game, come out already! We need answers!

[Saner]

Humans are really not worst at everything. they are in fact the most flexible at changing classes and not suffering any potential losses.

and also, I think the PSU Casts are Cyborgs (like PSIII), not Androids (like PSIV), since they are no longer immune to poison and stuff like that.

[Inazuma]

the casts are the best at the ranger class, thats pretty much certain. but we dont know exactly how the classes compare at high level play.

[Saner]

well at high level play it makes sense that they are still good at whatever they are good at.

plus any combination can solo no matter what. so it's all possible.

[Alisha]

On 2006-07-04 11:09, AzureBlaze wrote:
What's so great, is that there is such a big unknown quantity here.
Most of your PSO life is spent above lvl 100, while the demo only let anyone get to 30. As was mentioned, there can be huge stat differences once people get above 100. (It is assumed that the cap is 200 or higher, given the easyness of everyone reaching 30 in the short time the demo provided, even though there was no "Powerleveling" quest or boss run.) So no one really knows how most characters will be for most of their lives.

Flaking Out
On an earlier post someone complained that there were no PBs. The VERY valid counterpoint was that PB was nearly useless later on. Let's hope ST learned their lesson here, and it doesn't get that way for beast and cast. I mean, what if everyone had to nanoblast just to hit a boss and then cast SUV did as much damg as golla on ult fallz? It doesn't seem likely because of all the varieties of SUV, and then nanoblasts should lvl along with their beast. (so if you were effective before the NB, then you will be moreso while it is on)

Can't discount the FO
Everyone is also used to techs being somewhat mediocre later on due to DCPSO and somewhat GCPSO on ult where stuff had these enormous resistances. But how will FOs stack up later on? As for dumping on humans/newman, all that balancing has to be good for something, and we also know that newman will have a huge MST advantage over everyone else. (they spacifically say cast and beast are bad at magic) And we also know there's spells and levels of spells that no one's even TRIED yet.

So that just leaves humans...
It's hard for me to believe ST would dump them as 'worst at everything' but even if they are, you know you'll see 82385 HUmars. But it remains a mystery for now.

As for this whole androids may be superior thing...can't say I mind! I was worried I couldn't take point any more with beast having more ATP (we'll see about that! must find new god/power++) but so long as I can waste a whole lotta stuff while looking totally awesome, I'm good.

Argh game, come out already! We need answers!



anyone that thinks pb's suck later on clearly never participated in a multi plaer pb combo involving the twins. would be interesting if SUV's could be combo'ed in a similar fashion.

[Dahilia]

Casts are sexy. That's all that matters.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

What's this I hear? Casts = y? Oh and what else? Casts > meatbags?

Yay for win-wins. Although I do find it strange that Casts should be adept at ranged combat. It seems a little reverse to me.

[UltimateCarl]

Eh, Casts being good with ranged makes sense to me.

After all, guns = technology; robots/androids/cyborgs = technology. Plus SUV weapons seem to be all ranged... (Anyone else get the image of dropping a giant vehicle from space on your enemies' head when you hear that name?)
Sure, lightsabers = technology too, but the way you use them is more traditional...

Also, I wasn't so worried about Androids being too powerful as much as I was worried about HUcasts not being the pure dominating force they were in PSO. Which, I suppose they still will be, but with Beast ATP and Nanoblasts... Regardless, I'm still making a HUcaseal and a RAbeast. (Another thing, is it driving anyone else totally crazy that since they dropped the PSO shorthand, we don't have shorthand for male and female Beasts? Saying 'FObeast' or 'HUbeastess' is bugging the crap out of me...)

Mostly what I'm concerned about is the seeming penalty that Humans have. Also, while Newmans will make the best Forces by having entirely too much MST and Tech Damage, they have horrible stats otherwise. I mean, they've got high EVP and that'll definitely mean something, but I just think all those PSO vets who are still attatched to their HUnewearls are gonna need A LOT of patience. Those and the newcomers that think Space Elves (Come on. Newmans = Space Elves, admit it) are cool are prolly gonna go for some HUnewms. Not that they'll suck or that good players can't play them... And in fact I think you should play whatever you want, (after all, it's a game and it's meant to be fun. Doing what YOU want to do is certainly fun, I think) but I'm just afraid that certain characters will be just plain stunted and I think that is less fun than not being able to play what you want.

People keep stating "balance" as their advantages... But if the balance takes away from useful stats and adds the points into useless or only semi-helpful stats, then balance isn't quite so nice! "Ease of class switching" isn't really an advantage, either, since you can only play one class at a time and your levels in one class wont help your levels in another class. Besides, who wants to switch all the time? I know I certainly would prefer to focus so that I become powerful and get cool abilities rather than be completely mediocre at everything and switch so much that I don't have a good feeling for any of my classes.

Honestly I think they could solve a lot of this by making Techs not Force-only again. Sure, it'd take some tweaking, but ah well.

But, y'know, the game isn't out yet. Who knows?

[Dahilia]

Guns need accuracy and presiscion.
Casts are accurate and prescise creatures.
Makes sense to me, too.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

Since both Beasts and Casts couldn't be proficient in melee, I guess one or the other had to be chosen to fill the role of Ranger, and it certainly wasn't going to be beast. But if there weren't character occupation slots to fill, I still don't see why casts couldn't be the perfect melee fighting machine. Sure they aren't as savage as beasts, but they're precision (as you mentioned) and superhuman combat prowess would make them seem more suited for close-range encounters.

Or perhaps I'm too inclined to view everything under the traditional "HUcast pwn all" perspective. Precision makes sense, but I still seem them as Hunters http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[EnixBelmont]

I agree with pretty much everything UltimateCarl just said.

And I still think ATA will be extremely important later on....Time will tell.

I'm going to try Beast and Cast both out before I decide on what race to have as my main....ALthough both may just be my main. I level much faster than my friends, and having 2 mains may balance that a bit...Although 2 hunter mains is kinda boring.

I cant wait till august 31 >_< I'm going to play Xtra mode 2 months straight before I actually get the real game and go online....

[Kers]

On 2006-07-04 22:34, UltimateCarl wrote:
Eh, Casts being good with ranged makes sense to me.

After all, guns = technology; robots/androids/cyborgs = technology. Plus SUV weapons seem to be all ranged...



Actually there is a cast using a melee SUV at 4:30-32 on the third video under the video section on this link (sorry I don't know much about computers) -http://phantasystaruniverse.com/.
The possibility of the SUV weapon matching your Job selection was already discussed, and it seems that a set number of certain SUV weapons are available to the casts as a whole is more likely.

As a force, I only found PBs useful to avoid a boss's attack after I've died a few times (from being in a full group and low lvl on ultimate)to charge it up. I never used it while running through levels because I don't get hit or melee.

Also, each race/job combination is expected to be able to solo, so it looks like Sega took the steps to balance the fact that PTs are force exclusive.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kers on 2006-07-05 09:35 ]</font>

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-07-04 23:02, TheyCallMeJoe wrote:
Since both Beasts and Casts couldn't be proficient in melee, I guess one or the other had to be chosen to fill the role of Ranger, and it certainly wasn't going to be beast. But if there weren't character occupation slots to fill, I still don't see why casts couldn't be the perfect melee fighting machine. Sure they aren't as savage as beasts, but they're precision (as you mentioned) and superhuman combat prowess would make them seem more suited for close-range encounters.


The Cast is a machine built for precision. It is amazing with a ranged weapon but a blade makes far less sense. Even though it is very near human and technology is at an amazing level, a machine can never be more agile than a human. It's not possible... gears, wires, hydraulics, and any other source that powers a Cast can not out perform a human hand... maybe in speed and power bu not in mobility.

Back on topic, Casts will nto be the best race but a good race with it's own advantages. At higher levels, hunter PA's could becomes amazing for humans and newmans... but we dont know that until the game comes out.

[EnixBelmont]

LOL, 666 posts, eh, SgtShligger?

Anyway, you really cant say that a machine will never be as agile as a human hand, because we have no clue how the insides of a cast look. Photon may make it more agile, since we dont have that in the real world.

I was under the impression PAs were based on strength....PP or w/e of the weapon was based on Mental. If I am wrong(and I probably am) then humans are much better than I had previously thought.

[tank1]

Even though it is very near human and technology is at an amazing level, a machine can never be more agile than a human. It's not possible... gears, wires, hydraulics, and any other source that powers a Cast can not out perform a human hand... maybe in speed and power bu not in mobility.

Hey you never know by the way Casts look they seem more like a Boomer from Bubblegum Crisis than the Terminator. Chances are they to have synthetic muscle fibres and semi-organic components just like in BGC. Also the whole thing about Cast's being the best Rangers baffles me because surely a machine just like in Terminator could crush someones skull etc without breaking a sweat and would never tire.(assuming they have a power source) This makes Cast's seem better suited for a melee role rather than plinking at someting with a Rifle.
ST clearly didnt do there anime/movie home work XD

[mechatra]

As earlier stated, I have to say you're probably right about the bubblegum crisis likelyhood Tank.
Since Cast's can now recieve abnormal status changes just like fleshies, that probably means they have synthetic or even organic tissues used as components. This does kinda slightly kill the "Terminator" massive strength concept for me.

To be honest I believe fighting at a distance seems perfect for casts. They still are the class with the second highest atp, but what I think limits their general strength is the fact:

Humans created the casts, just like the numans, and the beasts. To limit the numans they made them frail and weak, to limit the casts so they didnt get out of control they probably didnt make them massively powefull on purpose.

Also the idea of beasts being made to work in harsh conditions would just be killed because casts would do just fine in the same conditions had they been made stronger.

As for comparisons of strength, I see it this way:

Cast = hydraulic batting machine arm, high accuracy and pressure to the aimed point.

Beast = A bear with a large heavy implement, swung with terrifying force, lacking the accuracy, but mangling the target due to more force and overswing being exerted.

[Alisha]

On 2006-07-04 20:44, Dahilia wrote:
Casts are sexy. That's all that matters.

[tank1]

If your into that kind of thing then yes they are lol.

[AlaskaMan]

But only mages can cast resta or no? I heard it from some1 that only force can. If that's the case the "RoboCops" would be the best. But if they can use resta I'd choose a "Living Organism" any day. So I do think the Cast are the best (Onry if other classes besides Forces can cast, then Casts aren't the best)

[F-o-x]

Yes, only forces can use techs in PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-o-x on 2006-07-05 09:15 ]</font>

[Sevenfold]

All this speculation over ranged and melee. Honestly, alot of "points" made here all sound like something made for a RP session. Everyone has their favorite type, but does anyone actually have any stats, OFFICIAL stats when it comes to Cast's in PSU?

[F-o-x]

The only thing anyone has at this point are the starting stats for all race/classes listed on the site.

If you want my opinion, I think people are mistakenly assuming that the stats will remain the way they are for the entire game (For instance, beasts have the lowest ATA upon conception but who knows? Maybe in higher levels of a certain class their ATA will become better than other race's).

[mechatra]

That's a valid point FOX.

And I really hope the example you used turns out true, but the thing is, the way most stats are right now, creates a rough balance, and I dunno if ST would break that.

Sevenfold, as for the speculation, of course we're talking reasoning of why they might be like that BUT, we already know the basic starting stats, and Casts have:

The highest ATA, second highest ATP and highest DEF

Whereas Beasts have

The highest ATP, second highest DEF , highest HP, but the lowest ATA.

Of course these are the starting stats and not the stat growths as FOX stated, of course that may change, at this point there's not much else to say really.

[turtle323]

beast dont have lowest ata do they....

[hypersaxon]

On 2006-07-05 07:03, AlaskaMan wrote:
But only mages can cast resta or no? I heard it from some1 that only force can. If that's the case the "RoboCops" would be the best. But if they can use resta I'd choose a "Living Organism" any day. So I do think the Cast are the best (Onry if other classes besides Forces can cast, then Casts aren't the best)



If other classes were capable of using Resta, the Cast would still pwn because, since they can use magic as well, they can also use Resta lol

Of course, only Forces can use magic so in terms of best character for melee, Casts are probably up there with Beasties. I don't really care too much about stats and bonuses, etc. since you can make multiple characters. My main is going to be human regardless of stats and all that.

[mechatra]

On 2006-07-05 11:48, turtle323 wrote:
beast dont have lowest ata do they....




By starting stats, yes Beasts have the lowest ATA. Not by a long shot, and the ATA system may be vry different in PSU compared to PSO, but they do still have the lowest.

My mains still gonna be a HuBeast.
I don't mind if in later levels half my hits miss, cause when I land a hit I'm gon'a kill sum'in!!!

[AlaskaMan]

You know if u read what i typed it doesnt make sense.

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-05 12:46, AlaskaMan wrote:
You know if u read what i typed it doesnt make sense.



Good times.

[EnixBelmont]

OK, something I just found out. Photon Arts have lower or reduced accuracy than regular attacks. Which means they will be the best in general for using photon arts as well. I find it funny how whenever I think I find a weakness in Casts(other than the fact they are crap forces) it ends up being a strength or it applies to the other races even more...

I'll still have a beast. But I will be using a cast as my main. Beasts will most likely be the best class at low levels, though. But I care about later on more, personally.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, one thing humans and newmen seem to have on the androids is that they have higher evasion, so they have a higher chance of blocking enemy attacks, while also having higher ata than beasts, while having better ATP than Rangers. In other words, they are more well-rounded Hunters who Hit more than beasts and get hit less than both beasts and droids. well, I hope it means something in the real game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-07-07 06:33 ]</font>

[EnixBelmont]

Yeah, evasion is nice, but I dont like stats that rely on mostly luck. So it is an advantage, but evasion was never my first prioity in PSO thanks to my awful luck.

Besides, evasion is more suited to a force anyway. I believe they have more. And Humans and Newmans make better forces anyway.

[Ikubi]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif After looking into the Casts some more, they are the awesome. XD So i will be probably playing a Cast as my main character(Ikubi), followed closely by human. ;D

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, the Hunters are the ones going up to their enemies doing most of the melee stuff, so evasion would help them too.

[Ryudo]

well there are 3 types of weapon manufacturers, one makes weapons with more PP, one makes weapons with more ATA and one makes weapons with more ATP

You can work to their strengths, giving beasts the high ATP low ATA sword and androids the high ATA low ATP weapon, or cover their weaknesses

so I doubt thetre really is any best or worst races, just different

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-07-07 07:23, Ryudo wrote:
well there are 3 types of weapon manufacturers, one makes weapons with more PP, one makes weapons with more ATA and one makes weapons with more ATP

You can work to their strengths, giving beasts the high ATP low ATA sword and androids the high ATA low ATP weapon, or cover their weaknesses

so I doubt thetre really is any best or worst races, just different



I agree. Plus, I haven't heard anyone bring up the possibility of added hit%. Excluding S-ranks and some player-crafted items; all weapons in PSO had the potential of adding to your base ATA cap with extra hit% (in addition to the stock ATA increase provided by the weapon itself).

In contrast, finding items that modified your base ATP cap tended to be less commmon (ex. kasami bracer). By that logic, if PSO is an appropriate indication of the role of weapon stats on PSU, it will be easier to compensate for a lack of ATA than ATP.

Casts will be superior rangers and should prove to be above average hunters. Will casts supplant beasts and become the top race in two areas? I doubt it. Nanoblasts do more damage and last much longer than SUV's. The added bonus of being invincible while in NB form is a nice touch, too. Also, we still haven't seen the effects of adding another tatoo to a beast char yet ...and it remains to be seen how ATA specs will unfold later in the game.

In the event that beasts continue to lack ATA throughout their leveling arc, it may still not be a cause for alarm. Keep in mind that HUcast ATA was pretty bad all the way through lv. 200; yet few would argue their efficiancy in combat on ep 1 & 2.

BTW, can someone link us to the guide for PSU char specs @ lv. 1? I think it would be good for the discussion. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[mechatra]

http://ev.dhs.org/skorpius/psucharacterchart.html

Those are the charts you're looking for I believe.

[Saner]

[Male/Female] HUNTER
............HP..... ATP..... ATA...TAP .. DFP... EVP MST END
Human 173/166 41/39 18/18 22/23 12/13 12/13 5/5 20/22
Numan 157/151 35/33 19/18 29/30 12/12 13/14 6/6 20/22
Cast 193/189 43/42 21/20 13/14 15/15 9/10 3/3 20/22
Beast 216/205 48/46 15/15 16/17 13/13 11/12 3/4 20/22

aha! Casts still have the best accuracy, even as Hunters! and second best endurance and strength. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

they also seem to be ahead in defense too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Eternal255]

i still wouldnt play them

i only play humans

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eternal255 on 2006-07-07 14:41 ]</font>

[Kupi]

On 2006-07-07 14:10, Saner wrote:
[Male/Female] HUNTER
............HP..... ATP..... ATA...TAP .. DFP... EVP MST END
Human 173/166 41/39 18/18 22/23 12/13 12/13 5/5 20/22
Numan 157/151 35/33 19/18 29/30 12/12 13/14 6/6 20/22
Cast 193/189 43/42 21/20 13/14 15/15 9/10 3/3 20/22
Beast 216/205 48/46 15/15 16/17 13/13 11/12 3/4 20/22

aha! Casts still have the best accuracy, even as Hunters! and second best endurance and strength. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

they also seem to be ahead in defense too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



That should not be surprising. The racial advantages apply regardless of Type. For instance, Casts also have the best ATA of Forces as well, while Beasts have the best HP.

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-07-07 14:10, Saner wrote:
[Male/Female] HUNTER
............HP..... ATP..... ATA...TAP .. DFP... EVP MST END
Human 173/166 41/39 18/18 22/23 12/13 12/13 5/5 20/22
Numan 157/151 35/33 19/18 29/30 12/12 13/14 6/6 20/22
Cast 193/189 43/42 21/20 13/14 15/15 9/10 3/3 20/22
Beast 216/205 48/46 15/15 16/17 13/13 11/12 3/4 20/22

aha! Casts still have the best accuracy, even as Hunters! and second best endurance and strength. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

they also seem to be ahead in defense too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Thanks for the link. Here's what we can gather from the stats at level 1, by the numbers:

If you're a male cast, you can expect to have 14% more defense than a male beast at lv. 1. This is good, since you'll be blocking 13% less frequently... For myself, I would rather take a higher chance at receiving zero damage, than a lower rate of damage received when being hit. The extra HP makes the gamble worth it, imo.

On the plus side, as a male cast you will be 28% more accurate at level 1. Needless to say, this is a huge gap in ATA. However; if I understand the TAP stat correctly, the reduction in TAP also results in less Photon Arts (to the tune of using Photon Arts 18.7% less frequently than a male beast). As such, droids will logically be doing more normal attacks than beasts. This means that cast ATA will be applied to normal attacks more frequently - where the extra accuracy is not as critical.

On the subject of damage, male casts have 10.6% less HP than their beast counterparts and give 10.4% less damage. While no means exact, in viewing videos from the PSU beta, we commonly see beasts in NB form doing more than double the damage provided by comparible SUV's. Additionally, the NB form does last much longer than it's SUV counterparts. As far as having the second best endurance, how do you figure? It looks like all hunter races have the same endurance stats to me.

Will beasts will be better hunters in the long run? Casts? Predictably, it will probably come down to play style. I personally think that beasts will prove to be superior hunters, while casts will provide the most efficient rangers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-07-07 15:33 ]</font>

[Saner]

I personally think that beasts will prove to be superior hunters, while casts will provide the most efficient rangers.


ya but it just isn't a matter of which race is the best at something, as long as each race is good enough to survive and be effective as that race.

like say Casts may be not be the #1 best Hunters but that's still a very good bonus that they can still be solid and some of the greatest hunters.

of course most will choose whatever they want regardless of what's their tier in the 'stats/advantages' tree, but ya every point helps. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


either way all races and combinations will be good enough to survive on their own and complete all missions even on their own.

They have to be,

otherwise the class system will be looked upon as flawed if a certain combination can't do anything on their own, as well as contribute a significant amount of combat support in a party.

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-07-07 23:59, Saner wrote:

ya but it just isn't a matter of which race is the best at something, as long as each race is good enough to survive and be effective as that race.



That's a nice thought, and I agree personally. However; the title of this discussion is "Androids, the best race this time around?" - with the main theme of the pro-cast arguement being that they will ultimately supplant beasts as best HU; in addition to being top RA.

If what we've seen so far holds true; beasts clearly fill the role as the hunter archtype. Casts and humans fight for runner up. While hucasts have higher def, hp and SUV blasts, humars will be able to take advantage of 25% more evasion, 40% more magic resist and a much higher capacity for utilizing Photon Arts, (40.9% higher, to be exact). IMO, these are sizable numbers and should not be overlooked.

Also, the fact that casts have the highest HP and Def may not be as good as people think... Basically, with low EVP and high HP / Def, you may end up not getting knocked over, when falling on the ground would be much more helpful. This poses a serious problem when being hit with an attack that strikes multiple times (such as Ult DF 2nd form Rabarta). Anyone that has been trampled by a jellened ult Gal Gryphon online probably already knows what I'm talking about, but the combination of high HP and DEF, along with low EVP may end up putting cast hunters at risk of being juggled by enemies.

Stat comparisons aside, Saner does have the right idea. As long as you play with a high level of awareness in your party (and are courteous to your teammates), chances are that you will become an excellent hunter, regardless of race/gender.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-07-08 06:01 ]</font>

[Alisha]

i think you also have to think of the different weapon manufacturers here. wich will probally ultimately make things balanced.



Mechatra-
-G.R.M
-Tenora
-Youmei

Each of these brands create weapons with slightly different stats. For example G.R.M weapons have the most balanced stats.
Tenora weapons however have slightly more ATP and ATA than their G.R.M counterpart, however they also have slightly less PP points for use on the weapon. Youmei have the highest PP points, but have the lowest ATP and their ATA is in between G.R.M and Tenora.


so i dont think it will be as cut and dry as it once was.

looks like youmei will be the way to go for beast.

[EnixBelmont]

As I said, from what we know right now, technic attack power does nothing for any class but forces. They have higher attack, based on ATP and weapon and such. Its like a stronger version of the strong attack, basically. They also have reduced accuracy. For example, you may only have 56% accuracy with a double saber PA. So at level one, an android would have like 12 ATA to go on for the attack, and a beast would have like 8. That may make a huge difference later on.

And I thought Percents were gone on weapons? Replaced by manufacturers. I could be wrong though. Either way, I'm sure the manufacturers with high ATA could make up for it. But then Androids and Beasts would be pretty close in attack power...

They seem pretty equal to me, and we'll probably have to wait until it comes out to see which is better. I still say that casts seem a bit better ATM, personally. But as you said, we will have to wait and see how important ATA is as well as testing them.

[Kyuu]

And I thought Percents were gone on weapons? Replaced by manufacturers. I could be wrong though. Either way, I'm sure the manufacturers with high ATA could make up for it. But then Androids and Beasts would be pretty close in attack power...

You're correct that percentages are gone as they were in PSO, but the replacement is weapons having elements. Now, weapons (asides from the generic green ones) are of a certain element (purple blades = dark, yellow blades = lightning, orange blades = earth, etc.). The weapon will have a certain ratio, such as 25% fire, and that weapon would do 25% more damage against enemies who are weak to fire. And no, you don't get status effects from elemental weapons, only bullets and technics have that advantage. Also, the main source of elemental weapons seems to be Item Synthesis.

[EnixBelmont]

Ah, really? I didn't know elemental weapons had percents. I thought if a weapon was fire, it was fire, and thats it.

[Saner]

oh since the title is if Cast is the best race, well no race is the best.



can a photon weapon have 1% lightning element and become yellow? or do you need like 20% lightning photons in it?

[Sevenfold]

In the end, I really think this is kind of a dumb topic to have started. ST didnt make the game to have one outrageously powerful class to tower over the rest. Just wait for the game, and then spam your love for your "personally" favorite class.

[mechatra]

This is directed towards Saner's question.

I believe that no matter how little the percentage of the weapon is elemental it counts as having an attribute, so yes a 1% lightning saber will have yellow photons, however I don't think it's going to be possible to get something with that low %s at all.

[TheGreyCliche]

Will weapons be able to have more than one elemental effect? Say 20% Lightning and 20% Dark on one weapon? And if so, then what determines the color of the photon?

[Saner]

lol well if you can combine 2 elements to a weapon,

maybe we'll be seeing blue+green sabers and other multi-color photon weapons.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[DizzyDi]

I doubt its possible to have multiple elements on a weapon. And if it is, the weapon color and such will probably be based on what it has the most of.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

if TAP has effect on elemental damage, that would be good for Humans or Newmans who are Hunters. Also, now that I brung up the subject of stats, it seems that Newmans have the highest evasion of the hunters, the second best ATA, so they have the second best chances of hitting and the most likely not to get smacked. So beasts are the strongest who are most likely to miss and likely to get hit, casts are the second strongest and most likely to hit, but are also likely to get hit theirselves, humans are well-rounded, they are not as strong as the previous two but have better ata than beasts while having better evasion than both beasts and casts. newman have the weakest ata and dfp but have the second best ata and the best evasion. so all in all, I think they can all be equally good hunters, but they are only different kinds of hunters. of course I'm just using the example of hunters, the same can apply for rangers and forces too, such as beasts and casts being more able to take hits, I think it depends on your fighting style.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-07-08 13:36 ]</font>

[Saner]

well evasive stats really don't matter 'as much' cause you can manually evade attacks yourself. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

so dexterity and agility IS also partially related to skill/reflexes on the player's part to attack and move out of the way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[mechatra]

Some of the attacks and hordes of creatures don't seem all that easy to avoid anymore Saner, you know what I mean?

...
...

Ladies and Gentlemen... something tells me we're not on Ragol anymore...

[Saner]

ya but with the strafing features and all,

a careful person can defeat waves of enemies without getting hit!

it is possible.

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-08 13:52, mechatra wrote:
Some of the attacks and hordes of creatures don't seem all that easy to avoid anymore Saner, you know what I mean?

...
...

Ladies and Gentlemen... something tells me we're not on Ragol anymore...



I see evasion as a 50/50 deal. Your right, alot of enemies have AoE attacks and its irrelevant how much you dance around, on account of its really impossible to dodge. On the other hand, their will be plenty of zombie type (not literally) enemies that come at you mindlessly and with really basic attacks.

[mechatra]

^ of course of course.

I wouldn't expect all enemies to surround you and blast you with AoE moves (although that would entertain me to some extent)

[Sevenfold]

I do think it would make for a more challenging and entertaining battle(s).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sevenfold on 2006-07-08 15:14 ]</font>

[Alisha]

also dont androids and beasts kinda want to get hit some to fill their SUV/nano blast bars?

[Saner]

On 2006-07-08 16:53, Alisha wrote:
also dont androids and beasts kinda want to get hit some to fill their SUV/nano blast bars?



no those things are a last resort.


Survival is always the priority. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Pyronin]

I say, underdog ftw! Chances are I'll be a human, just to show those stinky androids who created who! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Saner]

not all Humans created Casts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

for all you know, there may be Casts that were created by Casts! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


and also, some Casts may be humans who volunteered to become Casts to prolong their lifespan.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-07-08 20:56 ]</font>

[Pyronin]

On 2006-07-08 20:55, Saner wrote:
not all Humans created Casts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

for all you know, there may be Casts that were created by Casts! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


and also, some Casts may be humans who volunteered to become Casts to prolong their lifespan.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-07-08 20:56 ]</font>

LIAR! *cries*
HUMANS CREATED ALL!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pyronin on 2006-07-08 20:58 ]</font>

[Saner]

it's true. Androids are artificial humans.

Cyborgs are part organic and part machine.


why do you think Casts in PSU are not immune to poison like the Casts in PSO?

so really the Casts in this game are cyborgs, which isn't a bad thing, their self-awareness and I.Q. look to be far superior to the automaton Casts of PSO.

[Ka0s]

Does anyone think that they might change the level one stats that characters start with to balance out the chracters more and to make androids seem a little less powerfull or are the stats in the beta most likely going to be in the final game

[EnixBelmont]

I agree with beasts/Casts kind of wanting to get hit. Nanoblasts and SUV weapons look worth it.

And its not like casts and beasts can't dodge, they'll just dodge less. And they get SUVs and nanoblasts to more than make up for it.

Looking into it more, I agree that all of the races are equal, and based on playstyle for the most part. I say humans are the worst, personally, though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif If you only plan on having 1 character, I can see them being used, but why not have a seperate character for each class? And it is hard to argue that Beasts,casts, and newmans would make better Hunters, Rangers, and forces, respectively...

[Saner]

ya but its not a matter of choosing the combination with the best advantages. some will still play with what they like, even if they have lower stats/advantages.

[EnixBelmont]

Yeah, but that doesn't make them equal. They would be worse. People can be whatever they want, really, but they would be slightly worse. A lot iof people dont mind that, and thats fine too.

[Saner]

lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif worse is such a strong word. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

'mildly different' sounds better. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[EnixBelmont]

Worse isnt very strong. "Awful", "Bad", "Sucktastic" etc. Are strong words. Worse doesnt mean bad. And really, class matters MUCH more than race. A newman hunter still is only slightly worse than a beast or cast.

[Saner]

oh yes strong is a strong word! I mean worse strong.

aaah anyways.... gee looking at Dan, Capcom really wanted to make Ryo and Robert look like a fool. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-09 14:39, Saner wrote:

aaah anyways.... gee looking at Dan, Capcom really wanted to make Ryo and Robert look like a fool. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

I don't think so. It's more of poking fun at their own characters (Ryu and Ken, I dunno where you got Robert from) with a rediculous kind of parody character.

I <3 Dan, btw.

[Saner]

that IS Ryo and Robert merged together!

because if you played the Art of Fighting games or seen the Art of Fighting team,

Ryo is the blonde one with the orange karate costume and black shirt, and Robert is the one with the black ponytail.

this is no coincedence. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Dan is a parody of Ryo and Robert combined. he even executes his short range fireballs the same way Ryo does.

aren't you familiar with SNK's cast of legendary fighting game characters? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



here is Ryo Sakazaki:

http://kingoffighters.planets.gamespy.com/gallery/2000/Ryo-Sakazaki.jpg

and Robert Garcia:

http://arcade.ya.com/mundocapcom/parecidos/robert.jpg

and Yuri Sakazaki is Ryo's sister.

http://www.personal.triticom.com/~erm/www.neogeo.co.jp/kof00_en/character/lady_2.jpg

SNK recently used her moveset as a Akuma parody (having his intro and finishing move), but ya, Dan is definitely a Ryo and Robert parody. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


aanyways, Sega balanced the races so ya there is no wrong way to play. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-07-09 16:36 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Dan is the only case in which video game characters are unbalanced in that he's like a supremely powerful, Chuck Norris-level bad-ass.

[Suiko]

This is kind of late and a tad off topic (then again, the last few posts have been also >.>), but here's a correction for a couple of things so to provide a better look at the situation.

One would be that you can now continue to be hit by enemies while knocked on your butt from a strong attack.

For the other, I'm pretty sure it was stated that Beasts and Casts could also raise their Nanoblast & SUV-Weapon gauges by attacking, as well as getting hit. But, this could have been false info... if any beta testers know differently about it, please correct me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif I hate going around with wrong info ._.

[EnixBelmont]

On 2006-07-09 17:33, Shiroryuu wrote:
Dan is the only case in which video game characters are unbalanced in that he's like a supremely powerful, Chuck Norris-level bad-ass.



Obviously. He is by far the coolest character ever, and never loses a fight ever. Why do you think he is in my sig? He'd be my avatar too if I could. Evil dan is even more badass. And pocket Dan even more than that(ELVIS POWER).

And anyone that doesnt think they are making fun of SNK....

"I hate the Art of Fighting, but I want to be King of The fighters!" - Dan's Win quote.

SNKS fighting games: The art of fighting and King of Fighters....Hmmm. Not to mention his ending in Marvel vs. Street fighter where he finds out Akuma is his dad right before killing him from his sister(a yuri look alike) is an exact ripoff of Ryos ending in KoF.

And when Go Hibiki, Dan's father, is seen in the pocket fighter games, he is wearing a tengu mask, like Mr.Karate, Ryo's father.

And for the record, Dan is actually a kickass character in almost every game he is in. He is by far my favorite since he is the coolest, and he actually is good, too. You just can't expect to win with little skill.

Oh, and you people should all go get MUGEN. It kicks so much ass to see Dan kick Kenshin Himura and Naruto's ass. And evil dan is worth it alone.

Back on topic, yes, I do believe Nanoblast/SUV gauge fills as attacking, not only as getting hit. But not nearly as much.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

so the nanoblast/suv are pretty much like the photon blasts from pso, right?

[EnixBelmont]

Yeah, only race exclusive and cooler http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Also, they dont freeze time.

[Alisha]

On 2006-07-09 19:04, EnixBelmont wrote:
Yeah, only race exclusive and cooler http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Also, they dont freeze time.



thank god. anyone one remember what happens if a photon blast is used in that poison room in the seabed D:

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-09 19:04, EnixBelmont wrote:
Yeah, only race exclusive and cooler http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Also, they dont freeze time.




Aww...always was funny walking into a room after they used their attack to see everyone frozen in those funky positions.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

oh gosh, I hate how the PB's freeze time, its like I wanna slash things up and out of nowhere, this PB comes and stops us from what we're doing.

[Carlo210]

Is there any chance that stats flesh out differently as you level up? For example, casts may be the 'best' at level 1 but, as time goes by, maybe they become more balanced. For example, if a cast goes from level 1 to 50, he'll gain (made up numbers) 100 in ATP. If a human goes from level 1 to 50, he'll gain 104 in ATP. I'm just pulling the numbers out of my ass - it's jsut an example. Anyways, is it possible this is how the levelling could work?
Can the stats at later levels be different across the races than they were at level 1? Maybe humans gain a certain stat faster than another race, etc.
Y/N

[Kyuu]

Possible? Sure.

Likely? Not really. Doesn't really make sense.

[Alisha]

wishful thinking.

[tank1]

Why cant people accept that humans are gonna be jack of all trades?

[Carlo210]

Well, I doubt being a jack of all trades (what a human is as far as we know) has a benefit because one of those trades (force) is only given to you if you choose that class. The other two are better mastered by the Cast.

[tank1]

The benefit is that your not crap at anything buy your not exactly spetacular either. Humans are now basically PSU's equivalent of a HUmar or RAmar now.

[mechatra]

Apart from you cant use magic at all times...

Which essentially kills the ability to be a jack of all trades at one time.

[tank1]

HUmars and RAmars using magic in the first place was hardly spectacular though. In the end it's what Humans are now if you dont wanna be a jack of all trades just be a beast with pinned back ears lol.

[Carlo210]

So, basically, what humans should stick to in terms of classes are what casts excel at.
I mean, you admit that magic and humans don't mix and that humans are better off being hunters and rangers, repectively, but that's the thing - Casts are 'better' at being hunters and rangers. If humans make good jack of all trades, but shouldn't bother mith magic and just be hunters/rangers, then you are basically saying they are weaker casts.

Don't take this as a flame. All I'm trying to point out is that if humans 'should' take on the roles of hunters/rangers and casts are basically 'forced' to be hunters/rangers, since casts are better at being hunters/rangers - why be human?
BTW to all that may be getting annoyed ( http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ), this whole discussion of 'what race is better' is only to get a few things sorted out, not to make certain races obsolete. I may play as a human just because it will be funner to play as a person.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-10 08:00 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-10 08:01 ]</font>

[Alisha]

RAmarl was a LOT closer to a jack of all trades than a RAmar lol.

[tank1]

I was referring to RAmars and HUmars from PSO when all classe's could use magic not the current Humans in PSU. Though in retrospect using HUmars and RAmars as examples probably wasnt a good idea though they were basically the jack of all trades in PSO.
Simply put aswell the reason to be Human is if you dont want to be an extremity Humans can be all 3 classes and perform average wehter they are Hunters, Rangers or Forces. Also just becasue the stats are better dosent mean the type of race/class is better in PSO the only char i got into properly was my RAmar Tank and most people think of the RAmar as the most nerfed character in PSO. There is also the whole looking good argument not everyone wants to be a huge robot some people want to look cool in there new funky neon jacket etc.

[Carlo210]

Yeah, which is what I was pointing out at the end of my post. Although, the casts in PSU don't have to be bulky robots (they can look a bit like humans too, with the cyborg face). Either was, I'm 'probably' gonna make it human. I will probably find actualy playing as a robot or cyborg a bit too dull and unrelatable.
Also, I'm entrely new to the PS series. As a human, I can be flexible.

[tank1]

I think maybe ST were aiming to have the Human as the noob char for beginers etc (not calling you a noob carlo210) and your quite right. Cast's dont have to be hulking monsters and ill even admit that a few of the combos of parts look quite cool. Though i to will be fielding a Human character though it will probably be my only char for long time i just cant get into character that arent basically jack of all trades.
Also thanks i havent had a healthy debate on this forum for a long time XD.

[Carlo210]

You're welcome. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And don't worry - I am a noob at PS.

[EnixBelmont]

Noob is an insult. It means idiot, not newbie. Newb is what you are looking for. Either way, I refuse to use either word seriously.

Anyway, people new to Phantasy star should definitely be humans. The fact it doesnt penalize you for not liking the job you picked first is reason enough. And no one ever said anything close to humans should not be forces. They make almost as good forces as Newmans, and are the really only class they should be, IMO. Or the class they do best at least. They have almost as good magic as forces and can melee fairly well too. FOmar is the real jack of all trades, in other words. Kind of http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from being human at all. Be what you want. This topic was just to point out how it seems casts are the best race overall(which I still stand by, since they make the best Rangers and IMO tied for the best hunters)

But hell, the game isn't even out yet. This is all just speculation.

[Carlo210]

On 2006-07-10 18:19, EnixBelmont wrote:
Noob is an insult. It means idiot, not newbie. Newb is what you are looking for. Either way, I refuse to use either word seriously.

Anyway, people new to Phantasy star should definitely be humans. The fact it doesnt penalize you for not liking the job you picked first is reason enough. And no one ever said anything close to humans should not be forces. They make almost as good forces as Newmans, and are the really only class they should be, IMO. Or the class they do best at least. They have almost as good magic as forces and can melee fairly well too. FOmar is the real jack of all trades, in other words. Kind of http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from being human at all. Be what you want. This topic was just to point out how it seems casts are the best race overall(which I still stand by, since they make the best Rangers and IMO tied for the best hunters)

But hell, the game isn't even out yet. This is all just speculation.


I know what a noob is, and the fact that I'm calling myself a noob is totally negating the offensive part of it. It's like calling yourself an idiot after you did something stupid.

All I know is that there's a 95% chance I won't be a Force (magic users are always the hardest kind of class to get into as a first timer). It's either Hunter or Ranger for me. This is precisely why it's either Human or Cast, although Casts are statistically 'better' for what I want.

[EnixBelmont]

Forces may be the hardest to get into, but you may end up liking them the best in the end. I know I did in PSO.(I started with a HUmar and later a RAmar, then ended up liking FOmar the best overall in PSO) Since you can change jobs in this one, it may be nice to be able to keep all the experiece you gained while in the other jobs. And humans do make the 2nd best forces, best depending on preference.

Although if you really dont like magic users, cast probably would be better. The reason I probably liked FOmar is because Red Mages are my favorite job in final fantasy, always have been since 1. And since FOmars are the Red mages of PSO, I felt right at home. If you have never liked a mage, cast may be best for you.

[Carlo210]

I liked the sorceresses in Diablo 2 and mage classes in the elder scrolls series (although I think those games aren't great at all). Magic is cool, but I don't want a mage as a first character. Then again, things could change. You never know.

[EnixBelmont]

Well, thats what I'm saying. Being a human lets you change to a force later if you feel like it, which could be better than starting a new character, since you would already be at a high level.

Also, you don't like the elder scrolls games? Not even Oblivion?!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EnixBelmont on 2006-07-10 22:23 ]</font>

[Sevenfold]

Oblivion FTW!! *remembers his uuber sneaky thief*

[Carlo210]

Oblivion was ok for a while. Morrowind was ok too but I didn't like the gameplay and presentation, therefore didn't play it much.
In the TES series, one of the coolest things to do is loot dungeons and find things to put on display - Oblivion killed that. Now all I have in my Oblivion house is 50 sets of glass and daedric armor.
Also, Oblivion concentrates on voiced dialogue and therefore strips itself of any form of content that you expect from a TES game. Morrowind had heaps more content and stuff to do, although I didn't find either games inticing. Morrowind wasn't too great in my eyes, but did everything right at the time that it was supposed to. With that said, I found Oblivion funner to play for 40 hours (was a pretty cool experience in the beginning) while I stopped playing Morrowind after 10-20. All in all, the series just isnt my cup of tea.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-10 22:45 ]</font>

[Aion_Clyuve]

The only thing meatbags are good for is raw material for axle grease. But seriously, I've always played CASTs and always will unless I suddenly feel the urge to play a force.

[Carlo210]

My cast is going to be a human who is wearing cool looking armor, and who has a scar across his face. I'm not up to playing fake people.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-19 10:32, Carlo210 wrote:
My cast is going to be a human who is wearing cool looking armor, and who has a scar across his face. I'm not up to playing fake people.

... Um, huh? If your cast is going to be a human, then he's not a cast. He's a human.

Also, there has been no indications of any options to add scars to your character, though that could of course change with the final release.

[The-King]

What in the world is SUV?

[hypersaxon]

On 2006-07-19 20:31, Kyuu wrote:


On 2006-07-19 10:32, Carlo210 wrote:
My cast is going to be a human who is wearing cool looking armor, and who has a scar across his face. I'm not up to playing fake people.

... Um, huh? If your cast is going to be a human, then he's not a cast. He's a human.

Also, there has been no indications of any options to add scars to your character, though that could of course change with the final release.



He probably meant his Cast would have a Human look, in essense more of an Android than a Robot. You know, since you can make Casts that look Human.

[Carlo210]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna think of my cast as a robot, just a 'Juno from Jet Force Gemini' kind of 'geared up' dude.

[Kyuu]

So you mean a cyborg?

[DizzyDi]

Does it really matter that much?

[Mwabwetumba]

My Android wont be an Android either..well, technically he might be, but he really is a human.. well, ofcourse he is not just a puny human, he is an aspiring champion of Chaos, embarking on his own quest in pursuit of glory and power!

[Dirty_Filthy]

My Cast will just be a Cast.

[Disasteroid]

I have a feeling thats what mine will be, too.

[Aion_Clyuve]

My Cast is gonna be heavily armored, no human aspect whatsoever, looks like he could kick your ass even though he's a midget.

[EnixBelmont]

hey, I was thinking.....Wouldn't extremely skinny midgits be the best charcters this time around, since aiming is more manual?

[Kyuu]

I'm pretty sure your dimensions don't affect enemies' ability to hit you. I could be wrong, though.

[Carlo210]

No. Every character has the same hitbox (the space that, when hit, affects your character.
For example Halo 2 has an obscurely large hitbox (except for sniping), shile Perfect Dark Zero has a very,v ery small hitbox (you gotta hit em on their skinny head or it's a no-hit.
___
_| O |_
|_-----_|
| | |
| / |

Something like that^

If I shoot within that box, it affects the person. That's how games work. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[EnixBelmont]

I know. I was just wondering if the first person aiming and such implemented would have smaller hitboxes for smaller characters(there will be a battle-mode, yes?)

[DoctorShasta]

Well I would make a small character anyway, I just like small chars for some reason O-o however right now I'm debating between human or android

[Nuclearranger]

Casts seem like they could do RA and HU pretty === because they have some redeeming statistics over other beasts. If ATA matters alot in this game later on after teh monsters level up a bit Casts might turn out better just because they dont have to worrie about doing a Miss miss miss or whatever n.n

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-21 11:13, EnixBelmont wrote:

I know. I was just wondering if the first person aiming and such implemented would have smaller hitboxes for smaller characters(there will be a battle-mode, yes?)

Read the interview with Takao Miyoshi, linked at the top of the home page. He was asked this question, and said no, there is no battle-mode included in the final release. He didn't rule out the possibility of it being added later, however (like it was for PSO).

[DoctorShasta]

I never really cared much about battle mode I just want a challenge mode with those nifty prizes like PSO http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[zandra117]

Based on what I have seen, a cast's abilities are most comparable to newmans, they are strong in 2 jobs and extremely weak in the 3rd.

Casts are the best rangers, 2nd best hunters, and the worst forces.
Newmans are the best forces, 2nd best rangers, and the worst hunters.
Beasts are the best hunters, mediocre forces, and the worst rangers.
Humans are the 2nd best forces, mediocre hunters, and mediocre rangers.

[DoctorShasta]

That sounds about right zandra. I'm just glad you can make the casts look more human I never really cared for the android look

[Kyuu]

Actually, that's a rather simple way of viewing things. Newmans may have the second best ATA, but I don't think that really makes them second best rangers considering their very low ATP (beast forces actually have better ATP). There's more to a class than just their primary stat.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-22 11:31 ]</font>

[mechatra]

Erm... Kyuu am I misreading your post or did you get a race or class wrong there?

just doesnt make sense >_<;

[Kyuu]

Er... *cough*

No idea what you're talking about. That bolded word was certainly not edited for the purposes of the post making sense. >.>

[mechatra]

*Grins*

Just glad to know I'm not totally crazy.

But yeah, now it's corrected its also a very valid point. One stat does not make a class.

[Carlo210]

I think humans are the 2nd best rangers.

[DoctorShasta]

Well if this whole "having 2 proffessions" thing is real then perhaps it won't be as tipped towards casts anymore cuz then people will make humans or newmans so they can be HUFO's or whatever

[EnixBelmont]

If the 2 class thing is real.

Anyway, Humans would be the most balanced rangers, and 2nd best IMO as well.

[Carlo210]

Casts would be the best rangers, best RaHus, but worst dual-class forces. I'm trying to think about what'd make being a RaHu worthwile.

[mechatra]

Why would a Ra/Hu or Hu/Ra be worthwhile?

one thing - Hunter strength + Ranger accuracy + mechguns = WIN



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mechatra on 2006-07-23 16:51 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

Heh, true... but every hufo around you will be buffed and always healed, thanks to them being a HuFo in the first place. They'll be better hunters than RaHu's.

[Earthsunderer]

But perhaps the Hunter/Force will be a worse Ranger than a Ranger/Hunter? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I do wonder however, at which level this whole 'expert-level' thingie is going to be applied and how it really works. Now, it's all speculations again.

But that's good, this means increased activities on this boards. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[The-King]

Personally, I hate every single detail about Casts, I always have. They suck with techs and I like techs, they make PSO kinda easier, and they just suck with being able to use Techs. Trust me, a lot of people are going to be Humans and Newmans, Its a fact, just check the poll. I might be a HuFo just so I can use decent Techs, and I think Hunters can use Techs, but if they can't, Hufos won't be around until a while after the game is released so We might all be Hufos,Rafos and HuRas by the time there will be any, unless the people who buy the game know nothing of PSU and just bought it, quote: Becuase it looked cool, end quote.. those people will get their butts kicked, coming online going "yo wats ^ duds!?!?!?!Q!@4932fourthousandninehundredandsixtyt wo"(yes that was a random number)

Sorry, did I just go off into a Rant?

Any ways, the poin I'm trying to make is CASTS SUCK, ahem, I must go now!

[EnixBelmont]

I wonder....You think a Hu/Fo, say, would be weaker with melee than a pure hunter? That would be better, IMO. You have the option to remain a pure class, or multitask and be slightly worse.(but the combo would make up for it.)

And Carlo, a Ra/Hu would be a stronger ranger, probably. More strength is basically the only +, but hey. And being able to use melee weapons well is nice thanks to having ammo now.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-23 17:18, EnixBelmont wrote:
I wonder....You think a Hu/Fo, say, would be weaker with melee than a pure hunter? That would be better, IMO. You have the option to remain a pure class, or multitask and be slightly worse.(but the combo would make up for it.)

And Carlo, a Ra/Hu would be a stronger ranger, probably. More strength is basically the only +, but hey. And being able to use melee weapons well is nice thanks to having ammo now.

Aye, and also leveling up the hunter side-job might give you yet more ATA, since hunters DO get ATA, not to mention more HP and DEF. Also, don't forget that Photon Arts are great defensively, so being able to bust out high level Photon Arts when the mobs get too close would be quite useful. You know, if you like to avoid getting hit and stuff.

[The-King]

On 2006-07-23 17:18, EnixBelmont wrote:
I wonder....You think a Hu/Fo, say, would be weaker with melee than a pure hunter? That would be better, IMO. You have the option to remain a pure class, or multitask and be slightly worse.(but the combo would make up for it.)

And Carlo, a Ra/Hu would be a stronger ranger, probably. More strength is basically the only +, but hey. And being able to use melee weapons well is nice thanks to having ammo now.

Now when you say Hu/Fo you are saying "I was a hunter first" but thats how I kinda look at it, a Fo/Hu would be weaker will melee and stronger with Techs, as a Ra/Fo would be able to use the guns and maybe a Cane, have good aim, good hit and decent techs. Is all I'm saying..

[Carlo210]

I'm gonna probably be a RaHu anywho, since casts look really cool and I don't want to have to 'heal' the team or whatnot. I'd rather a force take care of the healing/higher-level-buffing. Then again, at that point in the game, forces may expect other players to buff themselves, since most players will be hufos or rafos.

[Earthsunderer]

Casts will still probably be very usefull and popular for their ability to call down a SUV upon the enemy.

The same will be for the Beasts and their ability to transform into a Nanobeast mode.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

[/quote]Now when you say Hu/Fo you are saying "I was a hunter first" but thats how I kinda look at it, a Fo/Hu would be weaker will melee and stronger with Techs, as a Ra/Fo would be able to use the guns and maybe a Cane, have good aim, good hit and decent techs. Is all I'm saying..

[/quote]

I hope thats the way it is.