Game economy >.

[MoonSblaise]

[b]Now i'm just a little concerned... In all the MMORPG's i've played, everything gets a little out of hand... look at FFXI who-evers played it. Notorious monsters were so heavily camped by the same people, currency sellers, or just plain obsessive money makers, that they could sell the items for millions more than normal items... >.<!!! and making money was difficult too... getting beehive chip stacks at 20,000g a stack wasn't easy.

Looking at Lineage... all the adena buyers made the economy go bottoms up, willing to pay so much for things that it ends up the "normal" price, and people who actually farm and earn their dang currency have no chance of affording anything >.<..

Hmm, i guess the problems more or less that game currency always gets sold, but how can we get around that!!!? its not too easy to track, so i guess a lopsided economy is inevitable... Am i right?

[PhotonCat]

This stuff happens in ALL MMOS. There is nothing stopping it. The only way it can be suppressed is if the company (Sega) actually DOES something about it.
NCsoft and Squeenix don't give a darn so that's why they are filled with "gold farmers" and screwed up economies.

I don't think PSU will be effected to that extreme because it's not excatlly the same as an MMORPG. There is no "Rare mobs" to be camped, or "camp spots" to be taken since you play in a private room.

But the best thing to do is just shrug it off and forget it. Don't let stupid things like that bother you.

If I gave my opinion on the matter, I don't really care about it and what other people do with their time.

[tank1]

I agree with PhotonCat on this one to.

[Ikubi]

I don't quite understand what you're saying. I understand in MMORPGs that rare items(and not so rare items) get sold for high prices. But with PSO(At least with my experience of it), when you get to the higher lvls, v-hard and ult, those rare items don't really seem that rare. They seem to drop like hotcakes for the most part. XD More times than none, in the harder modes i've never been wanting for anything. ;x So i'm guessing PSU will be the same way. Not to mention, most of the time your friends will help you out, ne?

[MoonSblaise]

Mmmm, jus got me on the other games that it was impossible to get a truly good piece of equipment with out paying real money for it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[MoonSblaise]

Never played a PSO game before... jus saying ma experiences on other MMORPG's ^_^

[tank1]

PSO and PSU are a very different animal compared to standard MMORPG's.

[Inazuma]

maybe the best way to make meseta in psu will be doing some incredibly difficult mission w/o dying and collecting some big meseta reward. instead of just doing some small thing over and over. that will encourage ppl to actually play the game instead of just programming some bot to do some simple thing over and over for meseta.

i dont really see meseta selling as a problem for psu either. unless psu happens to become extremely popular. arent the main money sellers in these rpgs Chinese? if thats the case, then both the jp and eng vers of psu would be safe.

PSOBB had a seperate chinese ver. does anyone know if that ver had problems w/ the economy at all?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

if you mean like selling items you don't need to make meseta, I do it too so I don't see the problem.

[Kers]

Since adventuring is done only in instances (there will be no camping) items will be free to hunt for.

There has been currency sellers in all the MMORPGs I've played. The amount of cheaters who buy the currency (which keeps it going) depends on how long it takes to make money legit in PSU (It's been established that meseta is highly valued).

If PSU attracts RPGrs that don't value the experience of playing the game legit, I think we'll see alot of meseta selling, mainly on PC/PS2 servers.

My best wishes are to find a server that the society tries to keep legit.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kers on 2006-07-10 14:03 ]</font>

[Ikubi]

-blinks- What is this meseta selling?

Items really aren't that expensive in PSO(and easy to acquire), so who would spend real money for game money in PSU(if thats what that means). I know there are currency sellers for RO and FFXI, but the rare items in those games(RO at least) sell for millions of currency. In all my time of playing PSO, i've never seen any people spamming, "S>[insert rare/highly sought after item here] for 5m. deal me." So i don't see currency sellers coming to the PS series for a while.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

oh, thats what you mean? using real money for items in a game? IMO thats pretty stupid, I'm not gonna pay for real just to have like a super cool weapon.

[Saner]

economies/auction houses are not a good idea anyway. that just makes things more rare and had to get and therefore everything becomes more work and moeny becomes less valuable since everything is priced higher than they are worth. simply ridiculous.

people would just exploit it to benefit themselves while others are left in the dust being cheated into paying more.

I rather entrust all items, weapons, etc. that are not rares, to shops run by NPCs. they always buy and sell at a more fair price than any auction house in the universe. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

plus NPC shops always have infinite supplies, so that makes it even better than auction houses cause its a pain going to many cities and none of the AHs have the armor/item you're looking to buy, which means MORE time wasted.


leaving these consumer elements mainly to the players is not a practical idea. yeah even in this game people will sell and buy from each other, but at least people can't sell things for more than the NPC shops sell them, otherwise players might as well buy that stuff from an NPC shop or someone else.


but ya overall NPC shops are 100% more fair, friendly, and trustworthy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[tank1]

Wots fair about getting lets say 10meseta for a rare weapon off an NPC shop seems like the biggest con in the galaxy lol.

[Ikubi]

leaving these consumer elements mainly to the players is not a practical idea. yeah even in this game people will sell and buy from each other, but at least people can't sell things for more than the NPC shops sell them, otherwise players might as well buy that stuff from an NPC shop or someone else.



Actually, in RO people do just that. Things that are sold in item shops, a lot of people sell for higher in their own shops....and the bad thing is, people actually buy from them, when i'm like 'screw that, i'll just buy it from that shop you're standing in front of.'

[MoonSblaise]

Yarr thats the prob, it would be hard for the NPC shop to take in to consideration the rarity of that item compared to others. but if they could get it right then go for it... anything not sold by an NPC would be a rip off though

[tank1]

People that are to lazy to walk to an NPC to get the same item for less deserve to be conned.

[Saner]

well I know NPC shops are not that accurate when buying from you, but selling-wise they are pretty balanced and fair. at least in PSO games.

but ya this game, I can tell the most player to player business transactions will be related to Synthesis items/equipment.

[Sev]

There's only one problem with getting everything from an NPC. And NPC can't sell a rare weapon with an unlimited stock. Even a limited stock would make it less rare then it ought to be. That's why things like player shops and auction houses are put into games, because honestly... Selling 50 Diska of Bravemen to the NPC shop just to get rid of them was pathetic and sad. Not to mention a waste of my time.

Player shops functions are supposed to be to sell things under the NPC price, or to sell items that you can't find in any shop. And it's like others have said, this game is different from the others... For instance, the whole getting or not getting a group problem is almost non-existant in this game. Not to mention that you're still able to solo in the earlier levels if there's nothing that interests you going on. The in game economy shouldn't really be affected that badly.

[Abaru-FP]

PSU won't have an auction house so this shouldn't be a problem. Exorbant prices can only exist if people pay them, and in other MMORPGs where a comutiny center is based around an auction house means theres always some epic-geared gold farmer in the area willing to throw away money like nothing. PSU wont make this mistake, and item trades will generally be kept between the common player without the gold farmer as a middle man.

[Ryudo]

On 2006-07-10 14:25, Ikubi wrote:


leaving these consumer elements mainly to the players is not a practical idea. yeah even in this game people will sell and buy from each other, but at least people can't sell things for more than the NPC shops sell them, otherwise players might as well buy that stuff from an NPC shop or someone else.



Actually, in RO people do just that. Things that are sold in item shops, a lot of people sell for higher in their own shops....and the bad thing is, people actually buy from them, when i'm like 'screw that, i'll just buy it from that shop you're standing in front of.'



Uh, no, people sell npc items at a discounted price because some classes have the ability to buy things cheaper, selling npc items for more than the npc price is illegal in RO and can get you banned

[EnixBelmont]

UH....No. You cannot be banned in RO for selling NPC items for higher than NPC price. Its the idiots that buy the items fault, not the seller. Unless you played at some seriously ****ed up private server run by idiots.

[Ikubi]

On 2006-07-10 18:43, EnixBelmont wrote:
UH....No. You cannot be banned in RO for selling NPC items for higher than NPC price. Its the idiots that buy the items fault, not the seller. Unless you played at some seriously ****ed up private server run by idiots.



Exactly. I've seen plenty of merchants selling NPC items(for example the Blue Gemstones which sell in Geffen for 600, i've seen them sold for 1000) for far higher than the NPC prices are. And usually a lot of them are infront of NPC/shopping areas.

And i know there is a class that can buy items for cheap, they are the Merchant class. I had one. And they are usually the ones ripping off other people with their shops. ;x

[EnixBelmont]

Thats because merchants are the only ones who can vend in RO >_> Well, and BS/WS and alchemist/ Creator.

White smith = Best class in RO not Assassin Cross. Or at least my favorite. Cart termination + a Rich person = God.

[Ikubi]

On 2006-07-10 19:39, EnixBelmont wrote:
Thats because merchants are the only ones who can vend in RO >_> Well, and BS/WS and alchemist/ Creator.

White smith = Best class in RO not Assassin Cross. Or at least my favorite. Cart termination + a Rich person = God.


LMAO

I didn't say merchants, i said merchant class. (ie merchant>alchemist/blacksmith>creator/whitesmith ;p)

And people overrate the sin class, geez. they are not that good. =_= btw, never been a whitesmith, always creator. Homunculi ftw!

[Foxix]

I don't see anything like this happening in PSU I mean in PSO you either got all your stuff from shops or by trading other items for other items... and seeing how this is set up I only see the player stores being a quick way to erarn some extra cash

[hypersaxon]

PSU isn't even an MMORPG. It's just an expanded version of PSO, there's huge cities and stuff you can walk through but the actual fighting of monsters is just like PSO: there's no camping for enemies, no other teams, you go from Point A to Point B, fight a boss, get meseta.

[Saner]

And usually a lot of them are infront of NPC/shopping areas.




what do they do??? form a blockade in front of NPC shops so players can't check their prices???? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif


That's so mean. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-10 20:05, hypersaxon wrote:
PSU isn't even an MMORPG. It's just an expanded version of PSO, there's huge cities and stuff you can walk through but the actual fighting of monsters is just like PSO: there's no camping for enemies, no other teams, you go from Point A to Point B, fight a boss, get meseta.



When did you make the rules on an MMO? Or even better, what is your definition of an MMO? I personaly classify PSO/PSU as on Action MMO. The only large differences in PSU to many other MMO leaders is the amount of people in an area/level/world, and the battle system, which is obviously action oriented.

[Ikubi]

On 2006-07-10 20:09, Saner wrote:


And usually a lot of them are infront of NPC/shopping areas.




what do they do??? form a blockade in front of NPC shops so players can't check their prices???? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif


That's so mean. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



Something like that, they form a blockade, so all you can see are their names when you move your mouse over them!!!! So the npc name almost never shows! ;O

[hypersaxon]

On 2006-07-10 20:16, Sevenfold wrote:

The only large differences in PSU to many other MMO leaders is the amount of people in an area/level/world, and the battle system, which is obviously action oriented.



You've just described in a nutshell why PSU is NOT an MMO.

[Sevenfold]

Yea ok, but why in your words does that dispell PSU as an MMO?

[Foxix]

Becauese an MMO in a traditional sence is a very large open in world with player to player/ player to world interactions that actually have an effect on the world. This operates in a manner similar to guild wars in which players can interact with eachother in a very large lobby but the meat of the gameplay is handled in an instance aka a dungeon crawler.

[Sevenfold]

In a taditional sense perhaps, but just because it doesnt follow that standard, since when did that become the definition? Any and all MMOs are always changing and adding new features, just because PSU favors a more instanced battle setting this detracts it from being and MMO? I just fail to see that I guess http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Foxix]

actually you sort of just pointed out another topic because MMO's are updated with patches and new content to be downloaded, this most patched as far as I know are said to be server side and they just unlock content off the disc for us to use. It's really just an illusion of an update since it's already in the game you bought.

difference? subtle I know but this by definition is an online rpg/dungeon crawler although what with games like guild wars and what not this may soon change as we are already seeing discussions on the differences as we speak.

[Sevenfold]

Time will tell I suppose.

[hypersaxon]

Yeah basically what Foxix said, PSO and PSU would be described as online RPGs rather than massive multiplayer online RPGs.

People who think PSU is going to be anything like Everquest and Final Fantasy XI should know that Phantasy Star Universe, while having large expansive cities and such, at it's core is an enhanced version of PSO. You'll still be making teams and doing missions, and when you enter the battlefield you will only be with your team, no one else. No camping for monsters all day, it's just like the classic PSO runs through the levels, followed by a boss.

[Kyuu]

People really need to stop getting their panties in a bunch about the term MMORPG. A game does NOT have to be like Everquest or WoW or FFXI to be an MMORPG. There's nothing in that term that requires a large, persistent overworld. Massively multiplayer just means you can interact and play with a lot of people. In PSU, ou can interact and play with a lot of people. The fact that it's instanced or that parties are limited to 6 people are irrelevant factors. Guild Wars is an MMORPG, PSU is an MMORPG.

Get over it. It's not really that important anyways.

[Sevenfold]

hypersaxon its not that I dont know what happens in PSO/PSU, beleive me, I played PSO into the ground, I was debating your definition for MMO. In which I still dont agree, but hey, to all their own.

[Kyuu]

Sevenfold, you do know you can actually delete your posts? When you go to edit, there's a little checkbox below the text field that says "Delete This Post." Check it, hit submit, and the post will be deleted.

[Sevenfold]

Live and learn, ty.

[hypersaxon]

I think it's actually an insult to consider PSU to be an MMO. It gives people who play MMOs, or more specifically people who hate MMOs (like me) the wrong impression about what kind of game PSU is. If I walk up to my friend and I go, "Hey! There's this cool RPG called Phantasy Star Universe coming out. It's an MMO!" he'd be like "God I hate MMOs! I'm so not getting that!" But if I say "Hey! There's this cool RPG called Phantasy Star Universe coming out. You can play online, but don't worry, it's not an MMO. It's like PSO but better!" he'd be like "Sweet! PSO rocked, I'm so getting PSU!"

[Sevenfold]

LoL I guess man, thats you and your friends. Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree. I just dont see your point of view as valid. Cheers!

[MoonSblaise]

Lol wow... Seems my topic has kind of drifted away in to a debate over MMO or just plain RPG... But heck, keep it going, interesting to read.

[Tystys]

PSU doesn't strike me as the kind of game where the economy will matter. I mean look at PSO. The only way we could get an item is if we duped, or if we traded one rare for another. Now, I'm pretty sure by the beginning of PSU, hacks won't be immediately available, so any dupes or things like that won't ruin the economy for quite some time. However, I know I will NOT be selling weapons for money or buying weapons from other players with money. Instead, I'll be trading rare for rare like I used to do in PSO.

[Sevenfold]

PSU will not HAVE an economy if dupers and hackers run their little 10 year old game again.

[PhotonCat]

PSU IS an MMO. Massively Mulitplayer Online. That's what PSU and PSO is.

It doesn't need to have a huge static world like EQ or WoW to be labled as a MMO or MMORPG. It is still an online game that's an RPG.

[Saner]

ya and it has thousands of players.

ya the servers hold like 100-200 per lobby,

but it's still massively multiplayer since players can freely jump between servers instead of needing a stupid 'world pass' like FF11 does. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Neural_Nebula]

It seems your source of worry springs forth from most standard format MMORPGs. Y'see in PSU - and as was in PSO - everything is instanced; so that means, no contested mobs and thus no contested items. So fret you should not, if you see an overly priced item in PSU just don't buy it, it's a simple as that really. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Why buy that uber-saber-of-teh-sworditiness for 1,000,000 meseta when you can just get it yourself eventually without having to worry about a super guild camping the mob that it drops from day and night? (Which don't exist in the game anyway). Sure if you want it that badly go ahead, knock yourself out.

And really, what would there be out there to purchase that is so highly desired? Clothes? Room items? Restorative supplies? Really there's not much you need to blow cash on - and even so, you can farm money without anybody bothering you.

Anyone who forks over cash – RL cash that is – to buy an item to get ahead of the pack are very, very demented people… and they are usually the types that race to max levels, spend two weeks basking in their glorious – and in their eyes, exalted – end-game majesty before jumping ship to slip into a another game where they rinse and repeat the formerly described behaviour.

lol, auctions. Don’t even go there… seen enough of the madness ensuing from such a flawed mechanic in Everquest II. vV; You get folks who either slap on unattainable price-tags onto an item just because it has a ‘legendary’ tag on it or, those who place prices which are ludicrously below their worth – and no, not to just get rid of them either.

EDIT: Hmm... it appears that I have forgone the reading of 3 pages of this topic without realizing there was more to the topic. Please disregard the post should I have addressed subjects that have already been countered beforehand - and most probably, I have. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neural_Nebula on 2006-07-11 13:55 ]</font>

[Sev]

I'm a very, very demented person.

I apologize.

Although... I didn't race to max level. Simply because I'm always basking in my own glorious and exalted majesty. And so is everyone else for the most part. You just don't know it yet.

[Blackwaltz-R]

MMO applies to games where the maximum number of players is greatly higher than6 in ALL instances outside of private instances. You can only have more than 6 players in the visual lobby thus detracting from what would make it an MMO. PSO/PSU are merely MOGs (multiplayer online games) which would be a better generalization since its more inclusive than MMO. I'd go deeper into why PSO/PSU aren't MMOs but I doubt this dilusion can be... diluted. >.>

Why are there those so hard-pressed to label these MMOs? They keep contradicting themsleves in their reasoning and fail to notice *twitch*

"wanna go for a swim in the ocean?"

"what ocean? you mean the lake?"

"its an ocean!"

"oceans are large bodies of water connected to other large bodies of water.."

"it is a large body of water connected to a large body of water!"

"yeah.. 200 miles downstream.. being connected to rivers and creeks does not make the lake an ocean.. despite the similarities.. and its not large enough to be classified as an ocean since oceans aren't inland.. it'd make more sense to mistake the lake for a sea since they are directly connected to an ocean which is why they call them seas instead of lakes.. don't confuse yourself with what makes them the same.."

"No! they are connected! therefore they're the same!"

"o.o.."

[Saner]

it's still water. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-11 22:25, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
MMO applies to games where the maximum number of players is greatly higher than6 in ALL instances outside of private instances. You can only have more than 6 players in the visual lobby thus detracting from what would make it an MMO. PSO/PSU are merely MOGs (multiplayer online games) which would be a better generalization since its more inclusive than MMO. I'd go deeper into why PSO/PSU aren't MMOs but I doubt this dilusion can be... diluted. >.>

Why are there those so hard-pressed to label these MMOs? They keep contradicting themsleves in their reasoning and fail to notice *twitch*

"wanna go for a swim in the ocean?"

"what ocean? you mean the lake?"

"its an ocean!"

"oceans are large bodies of water connected to other large bodies of water.."

"it is a large body of water connected to a large body of water!"

"yeah.. 200 miles downstream.. being connected to rivers and creeks does not make the lake an ocean.. despite the similarities.. and its not large enough to be classified as an ocean since oceans aren't inland.. it'd make more sense to mistake the lake for a sea since they are directly connected to an ocean which is why they call them seas instead of lakes.. don't confuse yourself with what makes them the same.."

"No! they are connected! therefore they're the same!"

"o.o.."



Pff...thats like trying to convince everyone, what the best kind of music is, or what flavor ice-cream is the best. Useless. You can throw a million reasons at me, but that doesnt mean your definition of an MMO is the RIGHT one.

In the end, unless you have a dictionary, that DEFINES what makes, and what does not make, an MMO, I will continue to call PSO/PSU such. Infact, Im going to call it Pudding just to piss people off.

[Carlo210]

On 2006-07-11 22:49, Sevenfold wrote:

Pff...thats like trying to convince everyone, what the best kind of music is, or what flavor ice-cream is the best. Useless. You can throw a million reasons at me, but that doesnt mean your definition of an MMO is the RIGHT one.

It does if they are the RIGHT reasons.

MMo massively multiplayer online (Game). Parts of psu are mmo, but the rest isn't. Saying it is a MMO is misleading, but so is saying it's an online rpg. It's half and half, but not an mmo on it's own, which is why psu is not a mmo.

How about MM/MO

[Sevenfold]

Pudding.

[tank1]

jah Pudding ftw.

[Ikubi]

So is it massively multiplayer pudding? or just pudding? xD

[tank1]

just Multiplayer online Pudding or a M.O.D for short XD.

[F-o-x]

On 2006-07-11 10:19, Kyuu wrote:
People really need to stop getting their panties in a bunch about the term MMORPG. <Ect...>

Get over it. It's not really that important anyways.



I'm with Kyuu.

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-12 06:06, tank1 wrote:
just Multiplayer online Pudding or a M.O.D for short XD.




Hooray for M.O.D! O_O/

[Tystys]

On 2006-07-11 23:17, Carlo210 wrote:


On 2006-07-11 22:49, Sevenfold wrote:

Pff...thats like trying to convince everyone, what the best kind of music is, or what flavor ice-cream is the best. Useless. You can throw a million reasons at me, but that doesnt mean your definition of an MMO is the RIGHT one.

It does if they are the RIGHT reasons.

MMo massively multiplayer online (Game). Parts of psu are mmo, but the rest isn't. Saying it is a MMO is misleading, but so is saying it's an online rpg. It's half and half, but not an mmo on it's own, which is why psu is not a mmo.

How about MM/MO




Uh, no offense but WHO GIVES A FLYING FU--

Well you know. Most people already refer to it as a MMORPG so let's leave it at that. If you don't think of PSU as an MMORPG than fine, that's all dandy. But if you ask me, if I'm paying montly for it, it has to be a MMO of some sort. I mean, thousands of players playing it every day, a some what free roam world, etc etc....

[zandra117]

I consider PSU to be an HMMOARPG (Hybrid Massively Multiplayer Online Action Role Playing Game). I call it a Hybrid because it blurs the lines between Massively Multiplayer and a standard Online RPG. It takes the best of both worlds and then combines them into one.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-12 15:37, zandra117 wrote:
I consider PSU to be an HMMOARPG (Hybrid Massively Multiplayer Online Action Role Playing Game). I call it a Hybrid because it blurs the lines between Massively Multiplayer and a standard Online RPG. It takes the best of both worlds and then combines them into one.



This I totally agree with.

Going back to the real topic at hand before it was so horribly de-railed, the economy is relatively perfect IMO. Sonic Team put some incredibly large moneysinks, and with the large amount of meseta that each sink will take out, there won't be too much currency selling going on at all if any. Some examples:

-Healing items aren't cheap, and do cost a fair amount from the NPC, with monomates costing 50, di costing 200 and tris costing 2500.

-Synthesis is a big part of the game, and high end synthesis will burn out your pocketbooks very often. Unless you have the willpower to FIND all your ingredients, you'll end up buying your resources, which like mates, aren't cheap. Add to the fact that there's going to be a number of failures in the process, even more money sunk.

-Grinding is another big sink. Just how far do you intend to take your weapon up to? This goes double for endgame equipment. In that situation, the only way to improve yourself is to grind. But the grind system has one messed up RNG, I can't count the number of times I've failed getting to +3, and yes other times I can get to +6 as if it were nothing (despite the 40% chance to succed at a +6 grind)

With the above examples, combine with the fact that meseta isn't as easy to amass as in PSO, you'll have one heckuva controlled economy, with lots of money going in, and just as much, if not more meseta coming out of the system.

[Kurosawa]

If PSU is anything like the previous PSO series, there will be no RMT problems at all and money will be plentiful. What will be PSU's problem will be duped and hacked items.

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-12 20:56, Kurosawa wrote:
If PSU is anything like the previous PSO series, there will be no RMT problems at all and money will be plentiful. What will be PSU's problem will be duped and hacked items.



This has been talked about/argued already but, The thing about duping and hacked items that was a huge problem in PSO is that fact that everything is server saved in PSU. Or server side saving as its called.

In PSO kids could pull their toon offline and go willy nilly with gamesharks and what have you. Which is where all these items and hacks were coming from. Im interested to see how it works in PSU now, because coming from playing WoW, and CoV, I rarely ever saw any kind of "hacking" and item duping is something I personally never saw.

So in the end, lets all hope the new protection their setting up for the online section, will dominate those retard kids and their lack of patience and integrity.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-12 20:56, Kurosawa wrote:
If PSU is anything like the previous PSO series, there will be no RMT problems at all and money will be plentiful. What will be PSU's problem will be duped and hacked items.



That's the thing, PSU is NOT like PSO. PSO's problem was that it was too easy to get money, with all the equip drops littered everywhere you could sell to the NPC.

In PSU. the drop rates are lower, and there's a lot less equipment floating around to make a huge profit on. Even duped and hacked items would have a problem too.

Unless you hack a perfectly grinded weapon, it's pointless. With server side saving as well as shifting many functions that used to be client side to the server, it just got a lot harder to compromise the system. Sure people could dupe an imperfectly grinded weapon, but good chance that they would all break at higher grind levels, and good chance that an ungrinded weapon won't sell to other players as well.

[Sev]

I apologize if this looks like I'm bumping but I find something funny...

When did the standard for MMO become more then 6 people in a party?

Just a thought. I giggled a little when I thought about that. And I'm not really the giggling type. Numbers aside, if being an MMO means that the game absolutely has to be cluttered, have a screwed up economy, and people battling each other to simply level up or improve their characters gear... Then no thanks, we can leave PSU out of that.

You know why games have instances? It lowers the strain on the players system as well as makes it easier for the player to actually enjoy the game. You even wonder why all the guilds that are in UBRS aren't in there all at the same time? Or why people doing BCNM aren't all doing it at once? Really people... Really...

Of course in the end, I don't care what you call it. It's PSU.

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-07-14 11:37, Sev wrote:
I apologize if this looks like I'm bumping but I find something funny...

When did the standard for MMO become more then 6 people in a party?

Just a thought. I giggled a little when I thought about that. And I'm not really the giggling type. Numbers aside, if being an MMO means that the game absolutely has to be cluttered, have a screwed up economy, and people battling each other to simply level up or improve their characters gear... Then no thanks, we can leave PSU out of that.

You know why games have instances? It lowers the strain on the players system as well as makes it easier for the player to actually enjoy the game. You even wonder why all the guilds that are in UBRS aren't in there all at the same time? Or why people doing BCNM aren't all doing it at once? Really people... Really...

Of course in the end, I don't care what you call it. It's PSU.




Greif thats what Iv BEEN saying. *clap*

[Saner]

thank goodness there is no downtime.

it's annoying having to 'rest' to slowly recover HP and stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Inazuma]

if ppl could dupe weps, they can just keep breaking em, until they end up w/ a perfect one -_-

[Earthsunderer]

Well, if the online characters cannot be influenced offline, the chances to 'dupe' said weapons should be really slim and probably only be makeable by expert hackers and cheaters, which should be such a minority, that they shouldn't be able to influence the game negatively.

[Saner]

ya people shouldn't be concerned about whatever dupers/hackers are doing and just focus on their own activities. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Wewt]

On 2006-07-15 16:45, Saner wrote:
thank goodness there is no downtime.

it's annoying having to 'rest' to slowly recover HP and stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Well, technically, PSO had this. Sooner or later you'd run out of HP/TP restore items and would have to go back to get more.

edit:

As for the MMORPG vs not MMORPG endless debate, here's something to think about.

Each server is unique in your standard MMORPG, while on PSO there was nothing unique at all about any of the servers on it. It's safe to assume PSU will be like this also?

It's nice to have your own server's different rule sets, or etiquette, and things like different item pricing for each server.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wewt on 2006-07-15 18:32 ]</font>

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-15 16:55, Inazuma wrote:
if ppl could dupe weps, they can just keep breaking em, until they end up w/ a perfect one -_-



They would also need to dupe lots and lots and lots of S10 Grinders too. 10 for every 1 weapon.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-15 18:26, Wewt wrote:

Each server is unique in your standard MMORPG, while on PSO there was nothing unique at all about any of the servers on it. It's safe to assume PSU will be like this also?

It's nice to have your own server's different rule sets, or etiquette, and things like different item pricing for each server.

Yes, PSU will have the same system, where you are able to switch between servers at will.

Maybe it's different in FFXI, but there was nothing really "unique" about any of the servers on WoW. It was just mostly just limiting, having to pick a server and be stuck on it, unless you want to lose all your progress and start again on another server. Unless of course you're referring to "PvP," "PvE," and "RP" servers, which are not needed in PSU, considering it's a 100% PvE game. And RP servers are really pretty superfluous.

[Wewt]

Item pricing wasn't different at all?

[Blackwaltz-R]

The only reason I found the MMO debate an issue is because its misleading to people who either want and/or DON'T want an MMO. the one thing I liked about PSO is that it is NOT an MMO, it isn'tt persistent (a characteristic of an MMO http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) meaning I can jump in and out without worrying about making sure I'm getting a certain amount of progress on a regular basis. categories exist for a reason, people have tastes, they want games that cater to their tastes, it doesn't NOT help their tastes when people for some reason can't seem to recognize what category a game fits in. People ahve expectations for what they look for in a game, when people ehar massive, they expect massive PUBLIC instances which PSU will NOT have outside of lobbies, not private instances with a player limit. Why is this so hard to understand? Its not rocket science.

[Kyuu]

... What exactly is a "massive public instance?" Instances are always private with a player limit. That's the definition of an instance.

[Blackwaltz-R]

I found that hard to make sense out of so I'll just reiterate.

"Massive" games don't resort to lobbies, this should be more clearcut. "Massive" games hold more than a handufl of players in the majority of their instances. while PSU only has one--The Visual Lobby.

[CalintzXAzel]

I don't like not being able to travel the world and not see everyone everywhere http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif takes away the MASSIVE yup yup.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-16 13:33, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
I found that hard to make sense out of so I'll just reiterate.

"Massive" games don't resort to lobbies, this should be more clearcut. "Massive" games hold more than a handufl of players in the majority of their instances. while PSU only has one--The Visual Lobby.

That's not true at all. The majority of WoW's instances, for example, hold 5 or less people. Then a few more hold ten or less. A very small minority hold 20 or 40 people. I still fail to grasp the point you're making.

[Kasuke]

Look at the real world, that's how things word. Rare items cost a ton. If the economy is anything like PSO, I wouldn't be worried about it. Once you got online, the use of meseta became obsolete. You just pick better euipment off the ground, because as everyone knows, you can't buy a rare item in a normal store. PSU has player stores, might make things interesting.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-16 15:32, Kasuke wrote:
Look at the real world, that's how things word. Rare items cost a ton. If the economy is anything like PSO, I wouldn't be worried about it. Once you got online, the use of meseta became obsolete. You just pick better euipment off the ground, because as everyone knows, you can't buy a rare item in a normal store. PSU has player stores, might make things interesting.

It won't be like PSO. For one thing, equipment drops are much rarer in PSU than they were in PSO. For another, I don't believe you can make weapons with elemental ratios except through Item Synthesis, and given the rarity of quality materials through random drops (from players' experiences in beta), you will often have to buy the materials from a store. Also, restorative items are quite expensive this time around (and only forces can cast resta, so...), especially PP restoring items. Then of course there are clothing accessories, which is yet another drain on meseta. AND to top if off, meseta is harder to come by, partially because you don't get much meseta from the missions unless you pass with the best grade, and partially because equip drops are, as I said, much rarer. Meaning, you can't just sell a bunch of crap you pick up off the ground to make easy meseta like you did in PSO.

Assuming meseta will be quite as worthless as it was in PSO is most likely false, as all signs currently point to meseta being much harder to stockpile.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-16 22:48 ]</font>

[Lyrise]

On 2006-07-16 22:22, Kyuu wrote:
AND to top if off, meseta is harder to come by, partially because you don't get much meseta from the missions unless you pass with the best grade, and partially because equip drops are, as I said, much rarer. Meaning, you can't just sell a bunch of crap you pick up off the ground to make easy meseta like you did in PSO.

Assuming meseta will be quite as worthless as it was in PSO is most likely false, as all signs currently point to meseta being much harder to stockpile.



This is also where a double-edged sword comes into play. Most of your pickups will be resources. Do you sell them for money now? Or do you save them, knowing that you'll need them later and it'll save you a lot of money?

[Carlo210]

I dunno. In a couple of the vids I saw players with a very healthy amount of meseta (one had 280091 and dropped 91 m after a boss fight to 'even' their stockpile). Also, players seemed to have various varieties of weapons after level 15-20.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-16 23:10, Carlo210 wrote:
I dunno. In a couple of the vids I saw players with a very healthy amount of meseta (one had 280091 and dropped 91 m after a boss fight to 'even' their stockpile). Also, players seemed to have various varieties of weapons after level 15-20.

Yeah, most of those weapons were likely made through Item Synthesis. I know that Ryna (I think it was her) made like 20 (a bit of an exaggeration, obviously) different weapons with different elements. Not to mention, near the end of the beta they gave out a large amount of meseta for free for people to use on their last days before the beta ended, so any video shot past then will have characters with a lot of meseta.

I'm also willing to bet that person probably 1) played day and night doing little other than playing the PSO beta, and 2) probably didn't bother with Item Synthesis, grinding, or buying clothes, accessories, or room decorations. Obviously if you don't buy anything, you won't be spending any of your money. AND, once people reached the level cap of 30, they ceased progressing, and probably didn't have much to spend money on.

Ask any of the people who actually played beta, and they'll tell you that meseta was much scarcer than in PSO.

[Inazuma]

yea, i could never get enough meseta in the psu beta. not even close. im sure in the full ver, everyone will be in constant need of more meseta. sega really did a good job making meseta valuable.

[Lyrise]

Neither could I. Or rather, I keep losing it due to failed syntheses and failed grinds. It wasn't until the 2nd last day of beta or so that I said to forget it, and actually spent money on clothes (besides boots, those are cheap), since I wasn't expecting the meseta bonus on the last day (good thing too, I ended up wasting money on stuff I decided a few hours later I didn't like).

[mechatra]

So shoes are cheap then?

awesome ^_^

[RoboKy]

I think FFXI and Lineage had the problem of not being able to solo. And as for the notrious monsters being camped in FFXI and Lineage II's raid bosses being 24hr camped by Chinese RMT that's fixed by instantized areas. And those two games were stupid reliant on equipment and weapons. I remember after leaving the Lineage II for a year because I was stupid bored with the grind (6% an hr of max exp is zzz) and to come back and the prices more than doubled I was pretty much dead when I could not by my next available equipment because people were like "What grade equipment" and I was like "C" and they were like ".... or no thanks".

I think this game requires alittle more skill than a regular MMO or MMORPG because your strength comes from playtime AND dodging skill instead of just how long you've grinded so you can grind somemore.

[Sev]

On 2006-07-16 13:40, CalintzXAzel wrote:
I don't like not being able to travel the world and not see everyone everywhere http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif takes away the MASSIVE yup yup.



It also takes away the LAG yup yup. Not to be too much of a dick then normal, but it's the truth. Seeing everyone on your screen is really overrated and should be saved for towns. The last thing I want is lag messing up my timing in the middle of a fight. I'd rather not see too many damn people around then to get slap down and possibly die.

If people would use logic, they wouldn't instantly crap their pants when they saw the letters MMO. That's expecting too much though. People not crapping their pants that is.



On 2006-07-17 10:53, RoboKy wrote:
I think FFXI and Lineage had the problem of not being able to solo. And as for the notrious monsters being camped in FFXI and Lineage II's raid bosses being 24hr camped by Chinese RMT that's fixed by instantized areas. And those two games were stupid reliant on equipment and weapons. I remember after leaving the Lineage II for a year because I was stupid bored with the grind (6% an hr of max exp is zzz) and to come back and the prices more than doubled I was pretty much dead when I could not by my next available equipment because people were like "What grade equipment" and I was like "C" and they were like ".... or no thanks".

I think this game requires alittle more skill than a regular MMO or MMORPG because your strength comes from playtime AND dodging skill instead of just how long you've grinded so you can grind somemore.



Everything written here is fact. I deem it to be so.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sev on 2006-07-17 22:04 ]</font>