If you are religous don't bother reading this

[TheyCallMeJoe]

K. Sometimes I have to watch this kid when his parents go off on vacations, so I know him pretty well. Apparently he goes to some camp...nothing wrong with that right? Just a fun summer activity.

Then he comes back saying he's been "saved", and he suddenly wants to go to church. So I'm watching him one day, and we decide to play some video games. I say: "How about Halo." Oh but apparently it expresses unnecessary violence now. Mentally I do a "wtf" but I just shrug it off. Later I find out through the mom that the camp counselor said "everytime you masterbate a kitty dies." She was pretty pi$$ed and so was I. That suddenly reminded me of all the horrible stories I had heard on the news about priests and whatever disgusting things they did to little children.

To sum it up:
1.) No I do not hate religion. It's only when you preach a philosophy that restricts enjoyment in a persons life and causes them to start spreading it around too. Ok, so they might be happy with their "newfound life", but I'm not because I have to listen it.

2.) Dude...the counselor. Wtf is up with that. I have to take a little "lol" at it though purely because the guy was dead serious. Also a little messed up though....*shudders while remembering news stories*.

3.) That was supposed to be a fun camp, not a "hey-im-going-to-sit-here-and-preach-to-you" camp. Why is it so godamn necessary for everybody else to believe the same things they do?

Amen.

Oh noes...pun-ish remarks. Well anyway, I don't care if you agree with me or not. Publically flame and shame me, agree with me, remain silent...I don't care. This is what rants are here for, right? So I've ranted. Now you may rant back.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

You have every right to hate religion. Religion causes a great deal of obnoxious, and often terrible things. One of the things that boggles me most, is how every denomination can claim high and mightily that they are the "true" way to God's favor, yet they all trace back to the same denomination that they split from to begin with, because they felt it was too corrupt. The only denominations that are exempt from this general rule are Orthodox denominations (as they pre-date the Roman Catholic church), which can in fact be rather straight and narrow, but often suffer from discriminatory problems (ie, if you're not Greek, then the Greek Orthodox church offers you no salvation).

The end result of all of this, is that there are a lot of really bizarre traditions out there, and really f'ed up extrapolations of "God's will"; case in point: "Every time you masturbate, a kitty dies." I ask you: is that so bad? How long as Bob Barker been reminding people to get their cats spayed or neudered, to try to cut down their overpopulation? Seriously, if that's gonna contribute to solving the problem, then we all need to get wankin'.

Mind you, I consider myself to be a Christian, and I'm saying this. I attend church every week, as I rather like the people at the particular church I attend, and I enjoy the fellowship. One thing that's fairly important, though: I place no faith in any church. Faith in a church is unduely placed-- the faith is to be attributed to God; not a place of worship.

[-Klaus-]

I really hate how corrupt relegion has become. It's one of the reasons why I'm athiest. It's just not right to brainwash little kids like that, and they have no room to say "everytime you masturbate a kitty dies". The priests touched the little boys! What do you have to say to THAT, eh? Maybe if the priests wanked, they wouldn't be raping little boys.



..Sorry. Got carried away...

But yeah... It just really makes me mad. According to christianity, only and ONLY if you believe in Jesus will you be saved.
Jews don't believe in Jesus, does this automatically send them to hell? it's just not right, imo.

[isahn80]

Damn, I've killed A LOT of kitties.

In all seriousness, I would have no problem with religion, except the for rampant prosthletyzing. Not all faiths do this, but the ones that do irk me to no end. Some people need faith, but I've never met someone that's liked it shoved down their throats.

Another thing I despise is when devout religious followers have the "Join us if you want to be saved and go to heaven, and if you don't you're a stupid fuck that deserves to go to hell" attitude I so frequently recieve. Again, not all people do this and I have a number of cool religious friends, but I hate nothing more than someone looking at me like I'm the dumbest piece of shit because I don't believe what's written in the bible is true.

Okay, I have to stop or else I'm going to write a 5000 word post and get banned for excessive vulgarity.

When someone asks me if I believe in god, I ask them if they believe in Santa Claus.

By the way TheyCallMeJoe, that sucks about what happened to that kid. George Carlin once said the best thing you can do for a kid is to keep them as far away from a church as possible. Telling someone (especially when using lies like the kitty thing) that what's natural and pleasurable is wrong simply because of a dogma is just messed up, at least to me.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: isahn80 on 2006-07-10 23:49 ]</font>

[TheyCallMeJoe]

@ Meira
I'd say amen, but somehow it doesn't seem appropriate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I'm glad the title of this thread didn't scare you away, else I might still be silently fuming on my desktop lol. You drive home the point that I was trying to get across. Kudos.

-EDIT-
Actuall you all are dead on target -_-. It's releaving to know that I wasn't just being a pessimistic religious-hater lol.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheyCallMeJoe on 2006-07-10 23:55 ]</font>

[K-Morfos]

If that were true, there would be no kitties left.

http://www.amyletter.com/weblog/every%20time%20you%20masturbate%20god%20kills%20a% 20kitten.jpg



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: K-Morfos on 2006-07-11 06:07 ]</font>

[Solstis]

Organized religion bothers me. The philosophies and such involved do not.

[zwandude15]

I killed 20 kittens in a week once..

[Abaru-FP]

The majority of people that have given me trouble in my life have been religious fanatics who either thought it was their duty to inform me I was going to hell, or were totally two faced and didn't practice the good values they so loudly preached.

Example:
Last ski season I was snowboarding with a friend. He was ahead of me, and there was a 30 year old man matching pace with us to our left. The man started wobbly edging closer and closer, until he clipped the back of my friends board, toppled on top of him, and sent them both skidding down the hill in a heap. The end result was a broken snowboard binding, and a nice chunk out of my friend’s brand new board. My friend worked at the Ski mountain as a snowboard instructor, and after he had untangled himself from the man, asked him politely to escort him to the office to exchange information.

The man, who turned out to be with a church group refused, and loudly blamed the collision on my friend. When other resort personnel showed up to calm the man down, he denied ever hitting my friend, and claimed he had just fallen down on his own and had blamed him when he stopped to help.

My friend simply didn't have enough pocket money to replace a new snowboard and binding set, and had to take the man to small claims court. The issue wasn't resolved before the ski season was over, and he had to quit his job because he wasn't able to continue as an instructor without a snowboard.

Other incidents include my friend’s mom sneaking into her room and reader her diary because "God told her" that she was sinning. Afterward, she called me up and yelled at me over the phone for "corrupting" her daughter, and told me that she pitied my godless life. After listening to her for 15 minutes, I just told her pray for me and hung up. In hindsight, I wonder what was in the diary, because the worst I had done was be her ride to a party where there was alcohol.

I totally see where you're coming from. It seems going to church gives people the right to impose their views on others, or generally be guiltless bastards because they believe god is on their side. Makes me kind of laugh and whimper at the same time :/

[navci]

On 2006-07-11 08:17, Solstis wrote:
Organized religion bothers me. The philosophies and such involved do not.


That being said. Some of the people who are religious that I have met are damn nice. And maybe they are damn nice because the religion has influenced them so. Just that, fanatics make a bad name for just everyone. Sometimes people automatically assume when you are religious you are a fanatic. That's not true, it is only when you get consumed by it and take it to the extremes. There are some average joes that are nice people because they have learned soemthing from the philosophy about how to treat people and the world. That is what religion is originally good for, too bad not a whole lot of people remember anymore. ._.

I guess I am trying to say what Solly said in the philosphy; that some people do benefit from it. Most people are literal in their understanding and then everything got pretty screwed that way.

[DikkyRay]

Yea im a christian, and i can see where your views are coming from. And WTF about the masturbation. I know plenty of christians that yea.... And not playing halo? WTF. A religion teacher (I go to a christian school) once played GTA on PSP. Did anyone care? Nope. You are retarded if you do not play videogames because of religion. Hell, the 5 commandment id Thou Shall Not Murder. Its killing vg chars, i don't think Gods going to send you to hell just because you shot a hooker in GTA or killed aliens in Halo. I guess what im trying to say is that there are 2 types of religious people. 1. the Regularly practice it but still have a lifefull of sin. WHich is, for the most part, most religious people. Then theres 2.) Extremists. These are people that take religion waaaaaaaaaaaaay to much into life. Those are like the counsalors who are accusing me and other men of slaying kittens, and the 911 terrorists. I Love being a christian, ill say that much, but it sickens me that people take such stupid measures to get others to believe or make up total bs

[InfinityXXX]

(I was told by a freind that you can go blind -.-)

Personally, I've only been to a church three times(a freind invited me) and most of my family never been to church at all. I do believe in God but I don't consider myself a christian or a catholic, I just believe in him and me and God have our own relationship.(Maybe I should say I believe in a higher power) All that, "I'm a christian" or "I'm a catholic" stuff is just too confusing for me. But I do respect and am open minded to every religon out there.

But I do dislike religous people, that are close minded and have the mindset of "Every religon but mine will go to hell".

And I think its kind of dumb for religous kids to cheat themselves out of things such as playing a video game or watching certain TV shows or movies in fear they might have sinned or done wrong to their religon.

[Eros17]

I'm not religious but I went to a somewhat similar christian camp with my friends. The counselors were cool but the liked to call me a filthy pagan. The funny thing is I'm not a pagan and I bet they don't know the definition of pagan. I still LOVED this though... On the first day our counselor aske us...
Would you rather
a)make a baby cry or...
b)kick a puppy

No matter what we answered, (make a baby cry), we were filthy sinners.

By the way I have no problem with this camp because most of the time they were joking around and I'm going back in 6 days.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-07-10 23:52, TheyCallMeJoe wrote:
@ Meira
I'd say amen, but somehow it doesn't seem appropriate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


There are people out there who call themselves Christians, who are in fact making greivous errors in the sight of God. I believe it would be quite appropriate for you to capitalize on an "Amen" at this time.



On 2006-07-11 09:21, Abaru-FP wrote:
Other incidents include my friend’s mom sneaking into her room and reader her diary because "God told her" that she was sinning.


If she needs God to tell her that her daughter is sinning, then she needs to start paying a bit more attention in her bible study class, because it doesn't take a whole lot of input to recognize that everyone is sinning. I mean, that was really kind of the point behind, well, the vast majority of the Bible, and emphasized (with great fervor) in the New Testament.



On 2006-07-11 18:56, Eros17 wrote:
On the first day our counselor aske us...
Would you rather
a)make a baby cry or...
b)kick a puppy


My response to this question: "I believe I can justify taking both actions, separately and independently of eachother."




Now as far as faith goes, I believe that I can witness a bit of information rather effectively. Make of it what you will, but here's my brief story:

Back in late January or so, I was rather dissatisfied with the direction my lifestyle was taking. I had just received a raise in November, and money wasn't much of a problem, but simply enough, I really wasn't happy with my job (drafting is incredibly boring, and without a certain prerequisite level of enthusiasm for the subject at hand, I submit that it may very well take a toll on your sanity, as well), and I was unresolvedly malcontented with the city I was living in (between the traffic, the conditions of my apartment, and the observation that those I knew and could hang around with in Fresno were few and far between, I was hating living there). In short, it was driving me nuts. I never really intended to live there permanently, but I was stuck.

So I prayed. I prayed, "God, I don't know how or what, but something's gotta change, or I'm just gonna flip." So, indeed, I prayed for change.

Fast forward to February 10th. It was a typical Friday. Toward the end of the day, I was discussing with one of the engineers what I would be doing on Monday. I had just returned to my desk, and my supervisor, Art, said, "Can I talk to you in Scott's office?" Now, one might think that being asked to discuss something in the office of the president of the company should raise some red flags, but usually this sort of thing resulted in receiving work to do on a new project, or something along those lines. So I sat down, and the door was closed. Present were Art and Dan; the two people who were present at my interview that got me the job to begin with. At this point, I was told, to paraphrase, "We're laying you off. You won't be coming back on Monday." A little shocked to begin with, I shook their hands, told them it was a pleasure, and I was soon packing up my stuff. There was no warning. Just BOOM! Job gone.

The end result of all of this, is that I am now living in Merced, which was the city where my wife's family (and therefore, a great deal of my friends) live in and around, I am working at a job that is somewhat more interesting, and endlessly laid back. My wife is now one of four partners owning a Gymnastics center. Yeah, money is a little tight, but the fact is that I live in a more favorable city, my new apartment is by far superior to my previous, I have an active social life... It's just better all around.

Ultimately, I received precisely what I prayed for, and in a timely manner at that. It's been an absolutely drastic change in my life, stripping me of pretty much all the things that I was unhappy with. Perhaps it's just coincidence, or perhaps it's not. I have no reserves about attributing all of this to God. I believe that he answered my prayer. Make of it what you will.

[Sinue_v2]

You have every right to hate religion. Religion causes a great deal of obnoxious, and often terrible things. One of the things that boggles me most, is how every denomination can claim high and mightily that they are the "true" way to God's favor, yet they all trace back to the same denomination that they split from to begin with, because they felt it was too corrupt.

Agree'd, and I'm Roman Catholic btw.



I place no faith in any church. Faith in a church is unduely placed-- the faith is to be attributed to God; not a place of worship.

My sentiments exactly.


it is only when you get consumed by it and take it to the extremes. There are some average joes that are nice people because they have learned soemthing from the philosophy about how to treat people and the world.

I agree here too. I've always said that the Bible should not be read litterally - simply because even if it really is the doorway to salvation, man has had too large a hand in it's creation. It's no longer god's will - but a mixture of both man's and god's will.

I think you really have to read between the lines and take the good and ritgeous parts of the bible, while questioning the rest. The Ten Commandments, for example, are excellent rules to live by. Yet in the same book, it says that any man who lays with another man as though a woman - he should be put to death and burn in hell. Huh? Where did it mention any of that in the 10 Commandments? A gay guy shouldn't covet his neighbor's husband/lover... but the simple (and involuntary) attraction to those of the same sex is wrong?

A simple example of man's meddling, IMO. The Romans were notoriously open with their sexuality - and the amendments to the bible were a great rally against them. By saying that they, in their homosexual acts, they offend god and should be put to death because of it, they inspired revolt and dissident against the Romans in the common people who heard it preached at the temple.

The problem is.. how do you know what parts God approves of and what parts he doesn't? What keeps a person "good" if they just cherry-pick what they like and what they don't like from the bible? It's tough to "know" God - and it's a form of faith that must be found - it cannot be taught or preached. Everyone must forge their own personal relationship with god. It's a hard road to follow - but it's a better road IMO. The Bible (or whatever doctrine you believe in) can be a good start.. but shouldn't let it hold your hand and lead you in the path of spirituality.


That is what religion is originally good for, too bad not a whole lot of people remember anymore.

Originally... Wow, I couldn't even speculate at how long ago that MIGHT have been. Religeon, as an institution, has been a tool of control and political manuvering for nearly as long as it's existed.

[isahn80]

Ultimately, I received precisely what I prayed for, and in a timely manner at that. It's been an absolutely drastic change in my life, stripping me of pretty much all the things that I was unhappy with. Perhaps it's just coincidence, or perhaps it's not. I have no reserves about attributing all of this to God. I believe that he answered my prayer. Make of it what you will.


The power of belief is amazing. Why do you think placebos work so well? (Note: I'm not discounting what you said)

My dead grandfather left me his old Omega watch when he died (he didn't have much), and when I put it on, I swear wierd stuff starting happening... for the better. Without getting into endless details, I'll just say it feels like he's with me when I wear the thing. Now, I'm not a superstitious or religious person, so this is quite a difficult concept for me to accept.

Does this mean it's really happening? Who knows. All I know is that if people believe something will happen, it does more often than if they don't believe.

I guess that's why people of different faiths can pray to different different Gods (or versions thereof) and get the same results.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: isahn80 on 2006-07-11 23:31 ]</font>

[Ikubi]

OMG!! You guys are killing kittens and you don't care. ;-; WTF?! XD No respect for life....

But seriously, somethings people have to learn how to control. I'm religious, and i don't really care what people do. And to tell a kid a lie is wrong, he shoulda just said, don't masterbate like its going out of style. xD I think its alright sometimes, but there are some people who do it constantly and that just tells me they have no self control. >_> I mean i get urges to hit people but i just don't go and do it.

[navci]

On 2006-07-11 23:23, isahn80 wrote:


Ultimately, I received precisely what I prayed for, and in a timely manner at that. It's been an absolutely drastic change in my life, stripping me of pretty much all the things that I was unhappy with.


The power of belief is amazing. Why do you think placebos work so well? (Note: I'm not discounting what you said)



Well. I think it works out to be a way that, if you were unhappy with your life, and you are the type to do something about it. When the opportunity come up, instead of just do it the same old way, the faith give you the courage to take the bigger risk and eventually you work on it to get to where you are now. Of course there is the luck involved where the opportunity shows up. It prolly is a very nice blend of the blessing and you working hard on it with new found confidence. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Lord_Kratos]

I killed 5 kittens in a day once! but seriously i understand what ur trying to get at. I dont go to church. I just believe in god and that his son sacrificed himself for us and thats all that really matters.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

On 2006-07-11 23:21, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Religeon, as an institution, has been a tool of control and political manuvering for nearly as long as it's existed.



Organized religion has been, yes. And now it's also the source of one of the most ongoing conflicts in history. Everything that's happening in the Middle East has its roots in religion. It's this kind of religious competition and provincial mentality that frustrates me. Do you have to convince everyone that your philosphy is the only right one?

But like Meira said, you don't need to place your faith in the church itself, else risk immersing yourself in all the pointless religious segregation and conflicts that run rampant through society. You only need place faith in what you believe will succeed in helping you achieve a fulfilling life.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheyCallMeJoe on 2006-07-12 14:59 ]</font>

[Otis_Kat]

On 2006-07-11 10:06, InfinityXXX wrote:
(I was told by a freind that you can go blind -.-)

It's true...to an extent. It releases endorphins(Hormone that provides pleasure) into your body, and they impair vison slightly. You'd have to do it a crap load in a short time to go blind though, by that time you'd have other problems with your body besides blindness. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Marter]

1. What is wrong with Christianity?
Evolution has problems too.
2. Was there any proof of evolution?

1. Nothing
1. No.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marter on 2006-07-12 20:40 ]</font>

[isahn80]

On 2006-07-12 20:37, Marter wrote:
1. What is wrong with Christianity?
Evolution has problems too.
2. Was there any proof of evolution?

1. Nothing
1. No.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marter on 2006-07-12 20:40 ]</font>


Oh, please. There's a whole hell of a lot more proof of evolution than there is for the existance of God or any god-like entity. Come on, show me some tangible, emperical proof God exists. Even a little scrap will do.

THERE IS NONE!

Micro-evolution has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to exist, so why not macro-evolution? You obviously have listened to too many people say, "oh, evolution hasn't been proven so that means it's not true." Have YOU researched the matter yourself? Somehow I doubt it.

The sheer amount of fossil records, geological samples, and multiple methods of dating said remains (Carbon-14 isn't the only way anymore) hold much more scientific weight than the bible does, that's for damn sure.

No proof, my ass. You just intentionally blind yourself to the evidence. That's like saying in court, "well, we have the bloody weapon, and his DNA linking him to the murder, but since nobody SAW him kill her, then we have no proof."

[Lord_Kratos]

Now now children no fighting ^-^ Theres no need to fight over something stupid over religion. Let the evolution guy believe what he wants and let the religion person believe what he/she wants. You believe or u done. I believe god did evolution that would take millions of years like the creation of earth and the sun in a manner of seconds..Still happened what would take nature milions of years God did it in seconds. So no fighting and this is what i believe so dont yell at me!! ^-^

[-memoru-]

I believe that God created evolution between species. I DON'T believe that i evolved from an ape. Sorry, if your ancestors are gorillas, yay for you, but my ancestors are human.

[Lord_Kratos]

GO YOU!!!!! I believe in things like -memoru- said.

[Solstis]

People believe in things like -memoru- said because their egos cannot allow any other explanation.

[-memoru-]

my logic won't allow for any other explanation. ;p and like i said, if your ancestors are gorillas that's your family tree, not mine.

and as for proof that God exists, what proof is there that he doesn't? ;x

[CupOfCoffee]

Sigh! Even the most hard core evolutionists don't say "we evolved from apes." It's that we share a common anscestor with apes, but that isn't something a lot of people can wrap their head around without more explanation than what I just gave. And that's unfortunate because I haven't had a shower yet and that's what I'm going to do next instead of more typing. Bye.

[-memoru-]

"share a common ancestor with apes"? >_> what exactly does that mean, exactly? ancestor, our predecessors. common, something that appears often/something that isn't hard to find. to me, that seems to say the same thing. I'm an open-minded person, if that's not what you mean, then please explain.

[Marter]

On 2006-07-13 01:06, isahn80 wrote:


On 2006-07-12 20:37, Marter wrote:
1. What is wrong with Christianity?
Evolution has problems too.
2. Was there any proof of evolution?

1. Nothing
1. No.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marter on 2006-07-12 20:40 ]</font>


Oh, please. There's a whole hell of a lot more proof of evolution than there is for the existance of God or any god-like entity. Come on, show me some tangible, emperical proof God exists. Even a little scrap will do.

THERE IS NONE!

Micro-evolution has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to exist, so why not macro-evolution? You obviously have listened to too many people say, "oh, evolution hasn't been proven so that means it's not true." Have YOU researched the matter yourself? Somehow I doubt it.

The sheer amount of fossil records, geological samples, and multiple methods of dating said remains (Carbon-14 isn't the only way anymore) hold much more scientific weight than the bible does, that's for damn sure.

No proof, my ass. You just intentionally blind yourself to the evidence. That's like saying in court, "well, we have the bloody weapon, and his DNA linking him to the murder, but since nobody SAW him kill her, then we have no proof."

Wow, I was a n00b to think about that. Evolution is false.



I read threw the entire bible all over and over. The textbooks for most schools about evolution are OUT OF DATE. Since it is out of date, why would I belive it?

Some of proof for evolution are false. The expiriemnts I was led to belive (2 Years ago) were out of date. I did a quick check on google and many webpages reported taht the expriments were false. I checked the webpage for the "official" evolution and the expiriemnts were out of date by 4 years. So why should I trust evoltuion? The materiels it teaches are out of date and are false.

The mass amount of fossils are EASILY EXPLAINED by Noah's Flood.
A flood of that magnitutre can give you fossils easliy.



17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [al] , [am] 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.


A gigantic flood of that sise and speed makes alot of fossils.
The waters will have come at a speed which can bury animals and kill them.

Then you see, if you view the bible with a logical mind, you get the ENTIRE EVIDENCE fits the bible's timeline. Evoltuion has problems about...

What happened before the so called "Billions of Years before the earth?
No proof.

Before you flame me...
Read this.

A young man says
"Well, I still believe in the big bang, and that we arrived here by chance random processes. I don’t believe in God."

The Pastor, "Well, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the pWell, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the product of randomness. So you don’t know whether it evolved the right way, or even what right would mean in that context. Young man, you don’t know if you’re making correct statements or even whether you’re asking me the right questions."

After all the overwheilming eviedince for Christianinty, if you still don't belive it.

Find out the truth when you die and your body burns in hell.

PS.

Many Christians play Halo. I play it with the blood turned off.
I personally know 100 Christians who play Halo.

[KodiaX987]

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/060619.jpg

Thread over.

[Solstis]

I'm no geologist, but I don't recall there being any evidence for a massive, world wide flood. Yes, the ocean did swell a bit (for instance, most of Florida was under water at one point), but no one has found any evidence that the entireity of the world was covered over.



A young man says
"Well, I still believe in the big bang, and that we arrived here by chance random processes. I don’t believe in God."

The Pastor, "Well, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the pWell, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the product of randomness. So you don’t know whether it evolved the right way, or even what right would mean in that context. Young man, you don’t know if you’re making correct statements or even whether you’re asking me the right questions."

If randomness is a Universal constant, then it is easy to believe that the Pastor is equally as confused as the young man. The Pastor's counter-argument would have defeated himself.

Not a good example.

Assuming that an omnipotent and omniscient God created the Earth, you have to ask yourself; 1. Why does Evil exist, 2. Do the laws of morality bind God to any one decisions, and 3. What about the laws of physics?

An omnipotent being has no reason to allow evil to exist; especially if he (it also makes no sense for God to have a gender) is the ultimate good. The counter that Satan devised evil while God wasn't looking if horsewash, as God is ALWAYS looking. If God made sure that evil existed in order to make Good seem... "more good" it wouldn't make any sense, as God should be able to do anything.

There's also the point of whether or not morality has any relevance to God whatsoever. If God created the difference between good and evil arbitralily, then the two words have no meaning to him. Otherwise, the concept of good and evil would have to exist before God, and it doesn't seem possible that anything exist before the Christian concept of God.

The same thing goes for physics, though that argument is less important, I think.

Also, playing Halo with the blood off does not make it non-violent. Seems pretty sinny to me. Oh, do hope that you don't eat any shrmp, either. That be a sin. How about polyester/cotton combinations? The more fundamental the argument, the easier it is to defeat.

[Edit]: Yes, there is no proof that God doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that he does exist, though. Interesting stuff once you start talking about it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2006-07-13 07:54 ]</font>

[CupOfCoffee]

On 2006-07-13 07:20, -memoru- wrote:
"share a common ancestor with apes"? >_> what exactly does that mean, exactly? ancestor, our predecessors. common, something that appears often/something that isn't hard to find. to me, that seems to say the same thing. I'm an open-minded person, if that's not what you mean, then please explain.


Rah, here we go.

An animal, kind of monkeyish, starts standing on two legs. Soon his friends catch on. Then his children do it, too. Soon, this animal has initated a new era--the walking on two legs era. Not long after, the ones who started walking on two legs (not all of his species did it, of course) start to evolve. They become something else which eventually becomes something else which eventually, many various species down the line, becomes humanoid. The ones who didn't ever walk on two legs evolved, too, just into something that more resembles modern monkeys.

Honestly, they never explained that that is what evolution is about to you in high school? It's not just "lol monkeys turned into us for some reason!" It's creatures adapting to environmental change, and the ones that get it right survive to breed and send their genes into the future--the ones that don't, don't.

Edit: "common" can mean "the same." Not just "easy to find." -_-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CupOfCoffee on 2006-07-13 07:53 ]</font>

[-memoru-]

LOL, VGcats is hilarious! xD

And Marter, i love your logic. ;D
I also enjoy a mixing of videogames. I play a lot of fighting games, and i even played the Xenosaga games, and other religious themed games. I enjoy them, but i don't allow it to affect my own beliefs. You can be religious/a christian and not go over-board.

[Solstis]

Out of date by 4 years? OUT OF DATE BY FOUR YEARS?

That's not very good logic a'tall! Why update the experiment if the evidence is already there?

[CupOfCoffee]

Haha, ah... I really didn't want to go here, but...

The Bible is kinda out of date by about 1900 years.

[-memoru-]

On 2006-07-13 07:52, CupOfCoffee wrote:


On 2006-07-13 07:20, -memoru- wrote:
"share a common ancestor with apes"? >_> what exactly does that mean, exactly? ancestor, our predecessors. common, something that appears often/something that isn't hard to find. to me, that seems to say the same thing. I'm an open-minded person, if that's not what you mean, then please explain.


Rah, here we go.

An animal, kind of monkeyish, starts standing on two legs. Soon his friends catch on. Then his children do it, too. Soon, this animal has initated a new era--the walking on two legs era. Not long after, the ones who started walking on two legs (not all of his species did it, of course) start to evolve. They become something else which eventually becomes something else which eventually, many various species down the line, becomes humanoid. The ones who didn't ever walk on two legs evolved, too, just into something that more resembles modern monkeys.

Honestly, they never explained that that is what evolution is about to you in high school? It's not just "lol monkeys turned into us for some reason!" It's creatures adapting to environmental change, and the ones that get it right survive to breed and send their genes into the future--the ones that don't, don't.

Edit: "common" can mean "the same." Not just "easy to find." -_-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CupOfCoffee on 2006-07-13 07:53 ]</font>


yes they did explain this in high school to me. Pretty much the same thing. But this is what i got out of it:
This monkey-ish type of creature bred and some of its offspring developed into humans while the other ones developed into primates.

So this monkey-ish type of creature still is the "eve" of evolution.

My questions:
Why didn't any other animal evolve to a humanoid creature?
Why don't we still evolve? Or any other animal for that matter. I'm sure there have been animals that have been hunted for quite some time now. If the strong survive and the weak perish, shouldn't there be just predators?

I think that's it.

[Saiffy]

On 2006-07-13 07:52, Solstis wrote:
I'm no geologist, but I don't recall there being any evidence for a massive, world wide flood. Yes, the ocean did swell a bit (for instance, most of Florida was under water at one point), but no one has found any evidence that the entireity of the world was covered over.

Perhaps not the entire world was flooded, maybe just around the Mediterranean(Oh yes I had to look that up) sea, where the Bible "took place". There'd be no possible way that Noah could've floated to where North America would be in that timeframe, thats a given. But...

I don't think you need solid proof of such events to believe in the existence of whatever God. Faith would be useless if there was absolute solid proof in such and such religion. And then, could anyone go to Heaven?(And if you need to know why i say this, well, you're probably in the wrong topic).

I could've worded that better.

I've always thought, people who call themselves religious were always looking for proof to support their "faith". Perhaps they can't stand to be wrong. I don't like going to Church, or my church at least for this reason.

Have faith if you believe in God, multiple Gods, that a giant sandwich created all life. Just have faith, theres no evidence to prove any side right or wrong. You just have to go with what you know. And try not to convert people(Another reason religion has a general bad name)


Blah, rambling ._.

[-memoru-]

And the bible is still gives accurate advice, dispite being that old.

[Solstis]

On 2006-07-13 08:03, -memoru- wrote:


On 2006-07-13 07:52, CupOfCoffee wrote:


On 2006-07-13 07:20, -memoru- wrote:
"share a common ancestor with apes"? >_> what exactly does that mean, exactly? ancestor, our predecessors. common, something that appears often/something that isn't hard to find. to me, that seems to say the same thing. I'm an open-minded person, if that's not what you mean, then please explain.


Rah, here we go.

An animal, kind of monkeyish, starts standing on two legs. Soon his friends catch on. Then his children do it, too. Soon, this animal has initated a new era--the walking on two legs era. Not long after, the ones who started walking on two legs (not all of his species did it, of course) start to evolve. They become something else which eventually becomes something else which eventually, many various species down the line, becomes humanoid. The ones who didn't ever walk on two legs evolved, too, just into something that more resembles modern monkeys.

Honestly, they never explained that that is what evolution is about to you in high school? It's not just "lol monkeys turned into us for some reason!" It's creatures adapting to environmental change, and the ones that get it right survive to breed and send their genes into the future--the ones that don't, don't.

Edit: "common" can mean "the same." Not just "easy to find." -_-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CupOfCoffee on 2006-07-13 07:53 ]</font>


yes they did explain this in high school to me. Pretty much the same thing. But this is what i got out of it:
This monkey-ish type of creature bred and some of its offspring developed into humans while the other ones developed into primates.

So this monkey-ish type of creature still is the "eve" of evolution.

My questions:
Why didn't any other animal evolve to a humanoid creature?
Why don't we still evolve? Or any other animal for that matter. I'm sure there have been animals that have been hunted for quite some time now. If the strong survive and the weak perish, shouldn't there be just predators?

I think that's it.



No other animal needed to become humanoid. Not to mention that some variants of humanoids were killed off (ah, those poor Neanderthals).

Er... the predators wouldn't have anything to eat, other than themselves. We might be evolving, but it'll be slow. Anyway, society seems like a pretty new concept (compared to the general rate of evolution), and I do believe that humans evolve through their civilizations, not necessarily their bodies. Why change shape when you have technology?

Oh, and I think that there's a few species out there currently evolving, but it's not something that we'd really notice. Much easier to look at evolution that has already happened; not so much as it is happening.

Oh, and Saiffy, I pretty much never get into religious discussion with my (even fundamental) Christian friends. The Internet is serious business.

I just noticed that I wrote "Oh, and [...]" twice. This bothers me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2006-07-13 08:09 ]</font>

[-memoru-]

Lol! "Sinny". I like that word. <3

I'm personally not trying to convert anyone. But I think it's funny when people say that. I have an agnostic friend, and she's the one who brings up our discussion of religion. And a lot of other people i know too who believe in other things, they tend to bring up religious subjects. I don't care what you are, but if you bring it up i'll tell you my beliefs. ;x

[-memoru-]

The predators could eat us. xD we're fleshy-meat bags(altho a lot of animals do not like the taste of human flesh), without much natural protection. And not all of us have the most common sense. xD Easy target. xD

[CupOfCoffee]

On 2006-07-13 08:03, -memoru- wrote:
yes they did explain this in high school to me. Pretty much the same thing. But this is what i got out of it:
This monkey-ish type of creature bred and some of its offspring developed into humans while the other ones developed into primates.

So this monkey-ish type of creature still is the "eve" of evolution.

My questions:
Why didn't any other animal evolve to a humanoid creature?
Why don't we still evolve? Or any other animal for that matter. I'm sure there have been animals that have been hunted for quite some time now. If the strong survive and the weak perish, shouldn't there be just predators?

I think that's it.


Other animals haven't evolved into humans because they're radically different from our ancient anscestors, I guess. A deer wouldn't randomly change its entire bone structure, redesign its brain to be exponentially more potent, and grow fingers to start using tools in any timespan less than infinity billion years, I'd say. Which brings me to my next point: we do still evolve. It's just not radical change because of the window of history we're looking at. If you think we're going to be developing psychic powers and growing extra legs to run faster in a span of about a million years, you've got another thing coming. It's generation after generation of slight genetic change after slight genetic change leading to something entirely different from what you started with, not X-men.

Oh yeah, and the reason predators can't hunt their prey to extinction is because of the food chain. If animal X ate all the plants that keep animal X alive, it would die out, too. There's a balance between predatorial killings and prey giving birth to more prey which nature doesn't often disturb. Humans, though, that's an entirely different story. We've killed lots of things out of existence. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And yes, the Bible does still offer good advice despite its age. It's just the syntax and exact passages and stories about this or that happening to whoever that are likely to have been translated incorrectly at least once, and once is more than enough for the meaning to change entirely.

[astuarlen]

Okay, I must have a lot more faith in human intelligence than most, because I can't believe Marter is being serious.
I mean, you're not, amirite? Alas, perhaps I am too optimistic.

Anyway, you really can't place a matter of faith (belief in Judeo-Christian mythology) on par with a matter of science (the theory of evolution). Creationism, ID--whatever the hell you want to call it--cannot be considered a scientific explanation and therefore a scientifically-based alternative. That doesn't mean you can't be religious and also embrace evolution as the most logical and elegant theory we have for explaining diversity of life in the natural world.

I don't want to waste too much time here, but I have to say that I am appalled by the lack of basic understanding of the scientific method and the theory of evolution. Are kids not paying attention or are our science curricula (look ma, Latintastic!) seriously deficient? Humans evolved from monkeys? A cute idea, but you'd be hardpressed to find an educated individual who believes it.

Haha, I sound like a snooty bastard. ;o

Edit:

Are humans still evolving? I'd say so, but this stuff can take a long time before anything appreciable happens. But we can observe evolution first-hand and at a much faster clip when we look at microorganisms (mmm, drug-resistant bacteria).

wasteoftimewasteoftimewasteoftime

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astuarlen on 2006-07-13 08:28 ]</font>

[CupOfCoffee]

Humans average a few inches taller today than they did a couple hundred years ago.

Evolution at work(!)

[isahn80]

Find out the truth when you die and your body burns in hell.



This is the kind of elitist bullshit that gives Christians a bad name. I don't agree with you, so I'm going to hell. At least it'll be warm.

There's nothing I can say or do to make any rebuttal convincing to "Marter" (by the way, it's spelled "Martyr"), so any further elaboration is useless. Oh, as fas as Marter's argument... well, let's just say I've had WAY more convincing bullshit flung at me than THAT. Noah's flood caused the fossils... psssh. Maybe you can explain why they're from millions of years ago when Noah's flood was what? A few thousand?
If that's the best you can do, I'm not impressed.

By the way, why does someone go into a topic marked "if you're religious don't bother reading this" and post something like that if they don't mean to stir up an argument? It seems kind of an asshole thing to do, in my opinion.

[Neith]

Religious Debate.

Usually ends up with either:

- Total confusion on one or more sides
- Religious fanatics (as seen to a lesser extent)
- People totally dismissing either point of view.

Of course, to post anything like 'you're going to Hell'- that to me is just trying to stir up people to retaliate.

Respect each other's beliefs, but believe what you want, heh.

Edit: Might help if you just consider other people's points of view, rather than telling us we're going to Hell. If I go to Hell, whatever, it happens.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2006-07-13 08:48 ]</font>

[-memoru-]

On 2006-07-13 08:30, CupOfCoffee wrote:
Humans average a few inches taller today than they did a couple hundred years ago.

Evolution at work(!)



But i'm shrinking. D;

whoops, you said an average. xD


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -memoru- on 2006-07-13 08:51 ]</font>

[isahn80]

I agree with UrikoBB3. I should've known better than to even acknowledge Marter's post.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i100/isahn80/dumbkid.jpg

So I'm going to stop arguing and hopefully we can get back to the matter of bitching about organized religion.

[-memoru-]

On 2006-07-13 08:50, isahn80 wrote:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i100/isahn80/dumbkid.jpg


;-; but, but i won... -runs away crying-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -memoru- on 2006-07-13 08:53 ]</font>

[Marter]

On 2006-07-13 08:04, Saiffy wrote:


On 2006-07-13 07:52, Solstis wrote:
I'm no geologist, but I don't recall there being any evidence for a massive, world wide flood. Yes, the ocean did swell a bit (for instance, most of Florida was under water at one point), but no one has found any evidence that the entireity of the world was covered over.

Perhaps not the entire world was flooded, maybe just around the Mediterranean(Oh yes I had to look that up) sea, where the Bible "took place". There'd be no possible way that Noah could've floated to where North America would be in that timeframe, thats a given. But...

I don't think you need solid proof of such events to believe in the existence of whatever God. Faith would be useless if there was absolute solid proof in such and such religion. And then, could anyone go to Heaven?(And if you need to know why i say this, well, you're probably in the wrong topic).

I could've worded that better.

I've always thought, people who call themselves religious were always looking for proof to support their "faith". Perhaps they can't stand to be wrong. I don't like going to Church, or my church at least for this reason.

Have faith if you believe in God, multiple Gods, that a giant sandwich created all life. Just have faith, theres no evidence to prove any side right or wrong. You just have to go with what you know. And try not to convert people(Another reason religion has a general bad name)


Blah, rambling ._.



? What is your problem about the flood was only in the Mediterranean? It was not local. Read the bible in Genesis, the flood.



19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet.
[quote]
It says the water rose over the mountains. All the high mountains UNDER THE HEAVENS. So how can you have a local flood if the water were above the high heavens. This is a picture of your logic.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/Marer_/NoahFloodHalf.jpg

[quote]
, 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.



Why can't people belive it?

We will wait.
Lets see...
At the flood of fire, we will find out.

[navci]

Find out the truth when you die and your body burns in hell.



You know who this remind me of? Phelps. All of them Phelps.

That being said.
It is inevitable that everytime a topic with the word "religion" comes into a thread it will eventually evolve (lol!) into a thread about whether or not the Christian God exist. Can't we have some variety? How about them Buddhas? How about them Allahs? We need to see all sides of the issue!!!

[Saiffy]

Well, Marter has proven he is retarded, and it's just not worth my time to reply to :>

Navi, I'd love to have some variety, but I can't bring it up! I don't know the first thing about Buddha or Allah XD

navi is my god, discuss

[Solstis]

? What is your problem about the flood was only in the Mediterranean? It was not local. Read the bible in Genesis, the flood.

We will wait.
Lets see...
At the flood of fire, we will find out.



Gee, you're kind-of turning me off this whole Christianity thing.

Sounds like one of the biggest sins right there.

But, yeah, the only deity based thinking I've done is on Christianity. :/

[-memoru-]

Talk about Asura, Indian(Hindu?) god of destruction.

[navci]

On 2006-07-13 10:46, -memoru- wrote:
Talk about Asura, Indian(Hindu?) god of destruction.


You mean Shiva? Asura in Hinduism is kinda like an opposing group of deities.. kinda demon like. Or, in Buddhism Asura are demons.

[-memoru-]

Shiva is the god of destruction? i know there is an Asura somewhere. with the six arms? maybe that's another name for her somewhere else.

[astuarlen]

Actually, don't Hindus believe in a single God of which there are many manifestations/aspects?

Yeah, it would be interesting to discuss other religions, but I don't think many of us are well-versed in the Qu'ran or the teachings of Buddha or what have you. Most of us, I assume, are most familiar with the Christian tradition--in at least one of its myriad interpretations.

But what I really want to know is this: why aren't there more discussions about the FSM? ;o

[-memoru-]

FSM?

[navci]

On 2006-07-13 11:16, astuarlen wrote:
Actually, don't Hindus believe in a single God of which there are many manifestations/aspects?


I believe that is the case with quite a few different religion. Not so much as in believing in this god will save you that god will do whatever. More of through these manifestations that you come to understand the universe and the forces at work, then from then you learn how to live with these forces.



Yeah, it would be interesting to discuss other religions, but I don't think many of us are well-versed in the Qu'ran or the teachings of Buddha or what have you. Most of us, I assume, are most familiar with the Christian tradition--in at least one of its myriad interpretations.


That is kind of my point. In the way everyone is taking this really seriously as if all facts are known and they have studied everything so thoroughly that they can make whatever statement they wish to say the other person is wrong. In any normal discussion wouldn't you have to explore more perspective to prove your point? I'd find it mightyly interesting to see the kinda comparison of similarities of how people/religion see the world and maybe how they have evolved with time to what we are seeing in the present days. Which, I guess is what scholars and professors do.

My point is! Meh screw the point. This is way too serious. XD



Shiva is the god of destruction? i know there is an Asura somewhere. with the six arms? maybe that's another name for her somewhere else.

That be Shiva yo.

[-memoru-]

Then who the hell is Asura? xD -looks it up-

[TheyCallMeJoe]

AHHH....

This is getting a little out of hand. The original point of the thread was not to debate organized religion and argue the theory of evolution -_-. It was a simple rant about church councelors that expanded a bit beyond its boundaries.

[KodiaX987]

On 2006-07-13 10:04, Marter wrote:

Why can't people belive it?

Because it's a fucking book of fiction, that's why.

Here, I'll do the same, I'll write up my own religious book and tell everyone about it.

What, you've never heard of my religion?

Shame. Well, let me show you the true path: our world was created roughly 25,000 years ago by the Pakestanese Clams and their chief, King High Liter. Their rules are very strict: we must respect and let the fish and seafood live. If we kill or eat a single one of them, we are irrevocably doomed to go straight to hell.

What?

You don't believe me?

This is preposterous. You HAVE to believe me! Don't you understand that if you've eaten a single piece of maritime food, you're going to spend your entire afterlife in a state of constant drowning, for all eternity? I know a solution. I know THE ONLY TRUE SOLUTION. Everyone has to convert to King High Liter. NO EXCEPTIONS. EVERYONE HAS TO BELIEVE IN HIM AND WORSHIP HIM. All other religions are nothing but perverse deviation from His Great Work.

What? You say YOUR god is the true one? Haha! Oh wow! You're more dark-sided than I thought. I have to save you, I MUST.

What? You don't want to convert? You still want to believe in your false, perverted, evil so-called "god"? Well, then you can never expect salvation from The Great Omnipotent King High Liter. You are a minion working his cause, and I have no other choice but to KILL you. Maybe when your pitiful soul stands before King High Liter, MAYBE you will have one last chance to ask forgiveness and repent for your sins.



We will wait.
Lets see...
At the flood of fire, we will find out.


Yeah, that's right. While you spew your your incessant bullshit, I'll be doing productive things, like building and repairing computers, making sure the corporate database is in top shape, and developing programs and solutions for those who call for my services. Maybe watch a movie once in a while, go play golf and have some fun with my friends.

I'll tell you where you went wrong. It's when you stopped believing in the bible as a guide to moral etiquette and started believing in it as a prophecy where every single word in it is true to the first degree. I'll tell you what the bible is. It's a self-help book. It's a book that teaches you to be a nice guy, to believe in yourself and what you're doing, and to help your friends when they're in trouble. You'll never be able to handle the Internet if you don't get that into your thick skull. I'll warn you in advance: if I bump into you in real life and you try to shit your beliefs into my throat, the only religious thing that'll happen between us with be the marriage between my fist and your face.

[isahn80]

*bows to KodiaX987*

I always get so pissed off at people like Marter that I find it difficult to properly compose my thoughts without going into catatonic shock, so I usually just stop debating.

You basically said everything I wanted to, but couldn't.

*Raises beer* maybe this will help my hangover....

[TheyCallMeJoe]

My point has been proven. Religion causes conflicts everywhere, and that includes PSOW forums apparently. Although I must say, Shurikane just served one of the biggest dishes of Pwnage thath I've seen in a long time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Kisari]

"If there were no God, it would have been necessary to invent him.”
-Voltaire

“Of all religions, Christianity is without a doubt the one that should inspire tolerance most, although, up to now, the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men”
-Voltaire

Thank God I'm athiest. Pun intended...

[Marter]

Somebody really neads to get thier old books about the founding of America.
Religion does not cause conflicts on every website and forum. Need I post some links?

[zwandude15]

Stay in FKL.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

On 2006-07-13 19:51, Marter wrote:
Somebody really neads to get thier old books about the founding of America.
Religion does not cause conflicts on every website and forum. Need I post some links?



Oh, you're right. It just causes conflicts in this one.

[Marter]

Oh.. So since I am a Christian, I am ordered to stay in one area in the forum because I exxpresed my thoughts? The Bible is NOT all prophecy. If you call poetry prophecy, you need some help. Why are you saying Thank God if you don't belive in God?
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

Then again, what about the T-REX with blood cells on the news a few weeks (Or Months) ago. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I really think the Marriage of Shuri's Fist with my skull will be an unhappy one.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

Maybe you didn't hear me before. Religion causes conflicts. What do you think half of this thread has been about. People arguing back and forth between whose right and whose wrong about the creation of the world, God, the Bible, or whatever other debate has risen. Hell, I'm participating in the conflict now. Religion falls into the same category as politics, philosophy, appeal....they're all beliefs/opinions. And humans' have a hard time dealing with other peoples' concept of reality. So we get defensive. You did it, I'm doing it...and it all snowballs into conflict.

After all, you really should pay more attention to topic headlines http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Did you not read mine? I posted it for a reason.

[navci]

I'll tell you what the bible is. It's a self-help book. It's a book that teaches you to be a nice guy, to believe in yourself and what you're doing, and to help your friends when they're in trouble.


QFT.
That's what a few of us have been trying to say. Good job for summing that up.

Now. Lemme just say one thing.
Only Sith deal in absolutes, and yes I am talking to YOU!

[Scejntjynahl]

Religion is a tool like anything else we can lay our hands on. How we wield said tool is what causes the "conflicts". It is human nature to define ourselves by differentiating ourselves from the rest. Its all quite stupid really.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-07-13 01:06, isahn80 wrote:

Oh, please. There's a whole hell of a lot more proof of evolution than there is for the existance of God or any god-like entity. Come on, show me some tangible, emperical proof God exists. Even a little scrap will do.


While we do have plenty of information that suggests that Evolution is possible, we have a general lack of evidence that prooves that it is indeed true. You ask for emperical evidence of God, but at the same time, you fail to realize that there is no real emperical evidence of Evolution. It's important to recognize that while we can demonstrate simple changes like consistantly patterned variations in rate of growth, and in the case of one tropical fish in particular, the genetic loss of significant sensory organs (eyes, for example), we've yet to observe or demonstrate the very basic and essential concept of the addition of important and functional organs. The fact is, when you take into consideration that just to accomplish the human form alone, you have to take into account billions of mutations that turned out to be beneficial, entirely by accident. If you are to add up the odds of the whole thing occuring entirely by chance, taking into account that we've never encountered a mutation that was in fact beneficial (albeit, we've encountered a few that have proven to be neither beneficial nor harmful, such as that eyeless fish I mentioned a moment ago) then it becomes apparent that even a span of billions of years is unlikely to be sufficient.

Consider that regardless of how much we learn about the universe, there will always be more that we do not understand than that which we do. Given this knowledge, the odds that life and the universe came into being by some means that we have no concept or understanding of becomes a far safer bet than assuming that our meager time in existence has been sufficient for us to comprehend the complexities of our own origins. In the grand scheme of things, it can be compared to having just passed your first Algebra class, and coming to the conclusion that you now understand differential equations and advanced Number Theory.

In conjunction with science's history of being convinced of something, then being proven all-out wrong, I'm content to trust science's assumptions about as much as I trust a zealot's insistances.

As a slight tangent, I'd also like to point out that Creation theory demonstrates the basic physical law that "Things tend toward chaos," while Evolution theory relies specifically on contradicting it.



On 2006-07-13 08:18, astuarlen wrote:
Are humans still evolving? I'd say so, but this stuff can take a long time before anything appreciable happens. But we can observe evolution first-hand and at a much faster clip when we look at microorganisms (mmm, drug-resistant bacteria).


It's unlikely that humans will see any sort of evolutionary change, so long as we continue to remove natural selection from the equation, as we do. The very fact that I, as a Diabetic, am still alive and planning to breed, is indication enough that the human race is not improving.

[Shigecki]

On 2006-07-13 12:14, KodiaX987 wrote:
Here, I'll do the same, I'll write up my own religious book and tell everyone about it.

What, you've never heard of my religion?

Shame. Well, let me show you the true path: our world was created roughly 25,000 years ago by the Pakestanese Clams and their chief, King High Liter. Their rules are very strict: we must respect and let the fish and seafood live. If we kill or eat a single one of them, we are irrevocably doomed to go straight to hell.

What?

You don't believe me?


What you described was a cult, not a religion.



I'll tell you what the bible is. It's a self-help book. It's a book that teaches you to be a nice guy, to believe in yourself and what you're doing, and to help your friends when they're in trouble.



Have you even read the Bible? What part of it is teaching you to be a "nice guy"? Is it the part that tells a parent to kill the child if they talk back to them? How about that any man that "shares" a bed with a woman that is menstruating should be put to death? Not sure how these are helping anyone to bve a better person. And back on topic, how about the part stating if your hand makes you sin, you should relieve yourself of that hand.

Which does gets us back on topic of this post, no more dead kitties everyone, please. Easy enough, remove your hands and no more dead kitties. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Yes some of it does tell us how to be better through love, but that is the New Testament. Most of the Torah just tell us how we are sinners, and tells about how the jews survived many, many trials. If anything I would say it was more of an uplifting book (well, at least the stories http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif) then a "self-help" book.



On 2006-07-13 07:36, Marter wrote:
Find out the truth when you die and your body burns in hell.


Well I guess I would go to Jewish heaven. You don't even have to believe in God to go there, just lead a good life. Have fun in Christian heaven. Wait a minute, which one are you going to? Catholic? Protestant? Maybe Mormon? Choose correctly, the others won't let you play with the "true" believers (actually I believe you still have a chance if the Mormons are right, not too sure though).

This is something I always found strange. God is omnipotent. With this being said, why does God need us to believe in order to let us through the gates of heaven? Is God this insecure that God "needs" us to believe in God in order to let us be in heaven. I kinda find this hard to believe. Or maybe I just hope the ALMIGHTY doesn't need us to believe in order for God to exist. This would put the whole "ALMIGHTY" thing to rest, oh well. Can't be ALMIGHTY if some don't believe. Can God make a rock so big that God can't lift it anyway? lol

Anyway, none of us are going to see heaven anytime soon. I think we will be reborn time and time again until we relieve ourselves of karma or finally achieve Nirvana. Or maybe we all have a spot waiting for us in heaven, after all Jews did start all these (Abraham) religions, and I don't remember them saying anything about the Trinity or faith in Jesus or Five Pillars. All they asked was for you to have that nasty foreskin be gone and no porkchops. Just my two cents.

[navci]

On 2006-07-13 23:09, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

It's unlikely that humans will see any sort of evolutionary change, so long as we continue to remove natural selection from the equation, as we do. The very fact that I, as a Diabetic, am still alive and planning to breed, is indication enough that the human race is not improving.



You realize that means we need to kill you now?

I think in a few previous posts someone said at one point we kinda stopped/or super slow down evolving when we started to evolve the technology that we use instead. The technology help keep people who would otherwise been dead, alive. I don't think evolution is going to stop, per se. But I'd venture to say medical technology has certainly slowed it down to a super super snail pace. My 2 cents.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-07-13 23:23, navci wrote:
You realize that means we need to kill you now?


Yes. It is one of several reasons why I consider myself to be a hypocrit. By my own principles, I should never breed, but I plan to, anyway.



I think in a few previous posts someone said at one point we kinda stopped/or super slow down evolving when we started to evolve the technology that we use instead. The technology help keep people who would otherwise been dead, alive. I don't think evolution is going to stop, per se. But I'd venture to say medical technology has certainly slowed it down to a super super snail pace. My 2 cents.


The way things are going, the human race is more likely to die out than to become something new. If a new race is to evolve from us, it will be a race of machines, sprouting from the technology that we develop.



On 2006-07-13 23:15, Shigecki wrote:
God is omnipotent. With this being said, why does God need us to believe in order to let us through the gates of heaven? Is God this insecure that God "needs" us to believe in God in order to let us be in heaven. I kinda find this hard to believe. Or maybe I just hope the ALMIGHTY doesn't need us to believe in order for God to exist. This would put the whole "ALMIGHTY" thing to rest, oh well. Can't be ALMIGHTY if some don't believe. Can God make a rock so big that God can't lift it anyway?


There's an old metaphor about sorting the wheat from the chaff. God's sorting those who are loyal from those who are not. That's the general idea, anyway. When you consider that the Bible describes God as being everywhere and in everything, it starts to look like God is using us to filter Himself, and get rid of what he doesn't like.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2006-07-14 13:28 ]</font>

[Kratos123]

k ive got an idea ya guys! atheists an agnostics let the religious people like me believe in what we want im not gonna try to defend my beliefs cus i "know" there right.
religious people we dont need to argue with te atheists and others cus they think they're right/know there right

that means that dude who raisd the beer and the other two back the fark off! dont make a big deal about your beliefs like evolution and the stupid ape theory. dont be like that fag who got the 10 commandments from the courthouses. Us religious folk we ned to respect there beliefs cus they think ours are retarded so lets not be to hasty as in to argue with them. im guessin that our god would not want us to argue. oh and u atheists u guys are religious to o dont start. your god is your damned beliefs of technology and media and evolution. so dont start about not believing in god cus theres your go right there. Im done though so dont even start to flame cus itt wont change a thing

[TheyCallMeJoe]

Maybe you didn't understand the title of this thread.

that means that dude who raisd the beer and the other two back the fark off! dont make a big deal about your beliefs like evolution and the stupid ape theory. dont be like that fag who got the 10 commandments from the courthouses
It's funny how you can call out everyone who flamed religon, but not the people who were asking everyone "why don't you believe in god?!?!"


Im done though so dont even start to flame cus itt wont change a thing
Whoop-dee-doodle-doo. Would you like some balloons for your celebration? Your problem is that you don't even aknowledge the possibility of people having different viewpoints from you. You think everyone is out out to bash on your religion? Umm...no. Am I religious? No. Do I think religion is teh sux0rz? No. I understand why people believe in God, Allah, Buddha, whatever. But that doesn't mean that I have to believe it to.

your god is your damned beliefs of technology and media and evolution
Like I said, try understanding. There's this concept called "not everybody see's the world like you do." Get used to it. Maybe you should try and understand other people's viewpoints before you make another post that screams "ignorance."



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheyCallMeJoe on 2006-07-15 00:15 ]</font>

[Kratos123]

im gonna give up due to people that i just explained i was a little disoriented last night so sry TheyCall Me Joe. i apologize to everyone for the religion bashing and all i was tired and disriented. but on a serious note the point i was trying to make is thatthey were doing the most vulgar arguements. they as in the three people i described. and they should have done what i didnt do last night. keep their beliefs instead of getting the religious people rousd up and the religious people should have done the same thing. though i still stand partially with the whol media, evolution god thing.

[Marter]

I understand other people's veiw points. I can see how many people [binterpret[/b] the evidence. Alot of evidence were matched to fit the timeframe for evolution.
EDIT: Fixed some spellng.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marter on 2006-07-15 12:11 ]</font>

[InfinityXXX]

When you deal with the subject of religon, people need to understand that your going to get a LOT of different views on it(i say this for some people are acting shcked that somepeople actually differ from them). Its been that way for some time and it'll always be that way as long as we exist.

All those that are sitting around arguing back and forth and using insults towrds another just because someone differs from you in your opinion are sounding like immature children. Its just best for you to agree to disagree.

By now,(after the first 10-15 posts) I doubt you can change someone thats a thousand or million miles away from you on a message board views and total outlook on life. You only can make them ackowledge that you hold a different opinion.

I ain't tryin to be all preachy I'm just typed this cuz this is my first time reading ALL of the messages in this thread and it just ticked me off how immature people can act (I think your suppose to be 14 and up to join here but folks are acting like 10 year olds).

You can have differing opinions but don't insult them or call them names and stuff.

[CupOfCoffee]

Kratos, why I'm replying to you confuses me to no end as virtually every time I've read one of your posts on this site, I've shaken my head at how rarely you listen to anything anyone says to you, logical or otherwise. But...

The very fact that you come in here and lump everyone who posted into two competing sides ("religious people" and athiests, or believers in "the dumb ape theory") proves that you're unwilling to let go of your ignorance. Truth is I'm a very spiritual person who believes in God, Jesus, and the whole bit. I am not an atheist by any stretch of the imagination. The thing is, I know the Bible is too old and has been translated far too many times for every single word in it to still be true, assuming that it was true in the first place. It was written after Jesus' death and by men, not God, so there are parts of it I would've questioned anyway.

Trust me, kiddo, God doesn't want you to blindly believe everything you're told, even about him. Ever heard the "wolf in sheep's clothing" bit? To find the truest truth, you have to figure out what you believe for yourself and find spirituality in your own way.

Again, though, I'm wondering why I even replyed to you. You're obviously not grown up enough to have a serious discussion with anybody you disagree with.

[Solstis]

I do believe that the only reason to insult someone is because they differ from you in opinion.

Infinity, you must realize that most of the people acting like children (that aren't) are just having fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[InfinityXXX]

On 2006-07-15 10:49, Solstis wrote:
I do believe that the only reason to insult someone is because they differ from you in opinion.

Infinity, you must realize that most of the people acting like children (that aren't) are just having fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



*sigh* I guess. It just made me all edgy. Poeple cursing people to hell and stuff.lol

[zwandude15]

On 2006-07-14 23:04, Kratos123 wrote:
oh and u atheists u guys are religious to o dont start.
Atheism is considered religious?

My God! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

If that's true, can anyone describe the religious qualities it holds?

I mean, I'm really skeptical on religions now. I believe in science. If that even goes by a name (which i thought was atheism?!). Forget it all. I'm just going to go about my life living.

On subject, *cough*, it was bad of that counselor guy to tell the children about a kitten dying everytime you jack off. I mean, honestly, who can prove that?

[TheyCallMeJoe]

On 2006-07-15 07:43, Marter wrote:
I understand other people's veiw points. I can see how many people INTERCEPT the evidence.



You mean interpret http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

But at least we're making progress. At least you can acknowledge why some people believe what they do....as an aethiest I think that I understand why I don't believe in god...because I need evidence. I take the analytical approach, and when I turn up empty handed, I decide to move on. And besides, there's only one person/figure/diety/etc. that I need to believe in, and that's myself. But some people are different and I can accept that.

But it gets real hard to play cool when people walk around saying "how could you not believe in the bible" "why don't you believe in god." Because they haven't considered the possibility of a different perspective of life. A lot of other people don't see the same world that they do, and both sides end up considering eachother crazy.

Meira has got my respect. Why? Because he can percieve other opinions without getting totally defensive. Why? Because he knows that we're different, but doesn't try to persuade me otherwise. Rather, he agrees to the difference and goes on living his life. He describes religion as a personal faith, not one in the church, and I couldn't agree more. Maybe we should all close this thread and get on living our lives too -_-.

[Marter]

Thanks for correcting my spelling.
I don't consider evolutionist crazy, some so-called Christians are not acctually Christians. Many CLAIM to be Christians are not. Some of the so-called Christians ACTUALLY are just lying to be considered GOOD from other Christians.

[Sinue_v2]

While we do have plenty of information that suggests that Evolution is possible, we have a general lack of evidence that prooves that it is indeed true. You ask for emperical evidence of God, but at the same time, you fail to realize that there is no real emperical evidence of Evolution.

Which is why Evolution is just a theory. The truth is, we have a lot of little bits of information - but no answers. Evolution is just a guess at what the larger picture may be. Certainty (weither it be in religeon or science) is rather dangerous. It leads to conflicts, or worse, apathy. We should never stop questioning, researching, and learning. What we call evolution may be an entirely different pheonomena which we're just not seeing because we're too busy trying to figure out what evolution is.

Now this isn't to say that I don't believe in evolution - I do... but as I said, we just don't know very much about it... and until we do understand it (if ever) it's just an artical of faith which happens to have a bit more circumstancial evidence tied to it than a 2,000+ year old book.

(BTW: This doesn't discount god in the equasion of what we know as evolution. I believe in God, but I also believe in science. What we call physics, biology, ect, are just the tools god created and used to form the universe. We're merely kid's playing around in their father's toolshed. But that's just my own personal belief - and one that I will hold until convincing contradictory evidence, in either direction, is provided.)

[navci]

On 2006-07-15 11:00, zwandude15 wrote:
I mean, I'm really skeptical on religions now. I believe in science. If that even goes by a name (which i thought was atheism?!).


On a very broad sense, science is also a religion. If you "BELIEVE" in science, then it is your religion. As is Atheism. If you "BELIEVE" there is no god, then it is your religion.



On 2006-07-15 10:49, Solstis wrote:
I do believe that the only reason to insult someone is because they differ from you in opinion.


No. I am right and you're wrong!
YOU BURN IN HELL SINNER.

[Eihwaz]

On 2006-07-13 07:20, -memoru- wrote:
"share a common ancestor with apes"? >_> what exactly does that mean, exactly?


It means that at some point in time, apes and humans branched off from the same creature.

It's like this: you have Species A (for Ape? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif), and a group of Species A migrates to a new area, while the rest of them stay behind. Over millions of years, the group that move become humans, while the group that stayed simply remain apes (albeit with a few slight changes, possibly).

That's a vast oversimplification, but that explains it basically. "Common ancestor" means that at one point, humans "branched off" from apes. It means that if you go back far enough, you'll find that the apes and us were the same animal, more or less.

This was pulled from my own brain, and may contain errors. If I'm hideously wrong, someone please correct me. >_>;

[TheyCallMeJoe]

Actually, every living thing on the planet supposedly spawned from sea-born bacteria. Now my trust in modern sciences lets me have "faith" in their studies, hence my belief that it is true. There are those, however, who find this utterly perposterous and laugh at the mere thought. My opinion is my opinion...if you don't agree with it than that's grand. No sense flaming and starting another thread war http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_redface.gif.

K i'm going to take a risk and argue this:

As is Atheism. If you "BELIEVE" there is no god, then it is your religion.
While I agree on the "science" part....I'm not really under the impression that atheism is a religion. It's more of...the "absence" or religion. Sort of like black and white, which are absences of colors, and are not considered "colors" themselves.

[navci]

On 2006-07-15 18:43, TheyCallMeJoe wrote:
K i'm going to take a risk and argue this:

As is Atheism. If you "BELIEVE" there is no god, then it is your religion.
While I agree on the "science" part....I'm not really under the impression that atheism is a religion. It's more of...the "absence" or religion. Sort of like black and white, which are absences of colors, and are not considered "colors" themselves.


Think of it is this way. Absence of religion, itself is a concept. You believe in said concept. BAM. Religion. Think of it as a concept, theory, hypothesis. You believe in it in the same way that people believe there is a god.

[Sinue_v2]

Actually, every living thing on the planet supposedly spawned from sea-born bacteria. Now my trust in modern sciences lets me have "faith" in their studies, hence my belief that it is true. There are those, however, who find this utterly perposterous and laugh at the mere thought.

LOLZ, joo noob. Everyone knows that we didn't come from sea bacteria. The erth was seeded by an alien species from a planet called Xentar in the Crab nebula. Not on purpose either... they were just passing through our system and someone flushed the crapper in earth's orbit. The bacteria in the poop ball which slammed through the atmosphere spawned all life as we know it.

An no.. it wouldn't have burnt up in the atmosphere... it was ALIEN poop.


I'm not really under the impression that atheism is a religion. It's more of...the "absence" or religion. Sort of like black and white, which are absences of colors, and are not considered "colors" themselves.

I think that science is every-bit a religeon to some people. It's a patheon of dieties consisting of logic, intelligence, and experimentation. Different theories and ideas have factioned what we know as "established knowladge" - and belief structures are built so empirically on them that some scientists will go so far as to fudge data and file misleading reports in order to back up their theories. Anyone arguing contrary to these established theories are often ridiculed and persecuted out of the scientific community.

Take the debate over Global Warming, for example.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

An no.. it wouldn't have burnt up in the atmosphere... it was ALIEN poop.
No wonder we say holy crap http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Shigecki]

On 2006-07-15 11:00, zwandude15 wrote:
Atheism is considered religious?

My God! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

If that's true, can anyone describe the religious qualities it holds?


Just because one doesn't believe in god/s doesn't mean that they aren't religious. Many of the Eastern religions don't speak of Gods in them. Buddhism, Taoism, Confucism are a few examples. Many believe them to be atheistic (not sure if that's a word). There isn't a mention of a God in any of these religions. I'm not sure if you are or aren't a part of these religions, you might be. To be an atheist doesn't mean that you don't believe in religion or that you are against religion.

I believe that most people that claim to be an atheist don't really know what it means. It is simple, it's the belief that there is no God/s. I'm not saying that this is the case for you, just I think people misinterpret the meaning.

As far as the religious qualities go, I'll ask you this. What qualities do Taoism share with Christianity? How about Hinduism with Islam? These isn't this group qualities that all religions share.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shigecki on 2006-07-15 20:44 ]</font>

[Lord_Kratos]

ya he apologized so lay off. cupofcoffee9though im doin it right now) its not very nice to directly point someone out of everyone like that unless you apologize for it. Im just sayin but i think ths thread should end because its causin some conflict. just my personal thoughts so im not expectin anyone to go along with it. also what i hink he meant about atheism being a religion was sarcasm and that the media is corrupted at least where im from and it has to do with atheists. im just empathysing so......

[CupOfCoffee]

its not very nice to directly point someone out of everyone like that unless you apologize for it.

*shrug* I don't see anything particularly disrespectful about it on a message board setting, where your name is next to your posts and they're up there in public for anyone and everyone to agree or disagree with. Besides, it's not as if I just wrote something stupid like "u dumb christhians shut up!" Count your blessings, buddy boy, because there are lots of people who would be less tactful than I in replying to your similarly named comrade.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CupOfCoffee on 2006-07-15 22:08 ]</font>

[zwandude15]

On 2006-07-15 20:43, Shigecki wrote:


On 2006-07-15 11:00, zwandude15 wrote:

If that's true, can anyone describe the religious qualities it holds?


Just because one doesn't believe in god/s doesn't mean that they aren't religious. Many of the Eastern religions don't speak of Gods in them. Buddhism, Taoism, Confucism are a few examples. Many believe them to be atheistic (not sure if that's a word). There isn't a mention of a God in any of these religions. I'm not sure if you are or aren't a part of these religions, you might be. To be an atheist doesn't mean that you don't believe in religion or that you are against religion.

I believe that most people that claim to be an atheist don't really know what it means. It is simple, it's the belief that there is no God/s. I'm not saying that this is the case for you, just I think people misinterpret the meaning.


Thank you for clarifying.

I guess I was accurate to consider myself atheist then. I really don't believe in God(s).

[Marter]

Actually, Atheistisim is also Humanism.
The defenition of Religion is
1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Then you see why Atheistism is a religion.

[Shigecki]

On 2006-07-16 06:00, Marter wrote:
Actually, Atheistisim Humanism is also Humanism a form of atheism.


Helped you out a bit.

Not all atheists are humanists. There isn't a set, single ideology that defines all atheists.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I don't really have anything against any religion, but its true that there is alot of corruption in many religions. Some people use religion for good, who I think are the real practitioners of the religion. But there are and were people who used religion for evil, like the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Al Qaeda, the American Republican party, etc. Religion is something that a person should believe in individually, not something that should be shoved down one's throat, which includes brainwashing. I don't even think that parents have the right to force their own children to impose their religious beliefs on them.

[TheyCallMeJoe]

Heh, I'm gonna be a bitch and still disagree http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I'm not really under the impression that atheism is a religion. It's more of...the "absence" or religion. Sort of like black and white, which are absences of colors, and are not considered "colors" themselves.

However, I think that while science may not directly be a religion, it's a philosophy that's more closely related. That's not to be confused with scientology of course http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif. I don't even want to go there....

[Abaru-FP]

Then you see why Atheistism is a religion.

...Huh?
Lets pretend I accept your definition as being correct, and lets also briefly pretend we agree that Atheism is defined as the absence of belief in a higher power or guiding force.

I will bold the reasons why your argument is totally and utterly self defeating and leads me to believe you left out a "not" somewhere.


1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

According to your definition, Atheism is NOT a religion.

For the record, I define religion as a personal theory for the existance of everything around them and concider Atheism a religion.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abaru-FP on 2006-07-16 13:57 ]</font>

[Lord_Kratos]

i think what he means its not that different than a religion and should be considered one. humanism is like atheism or the other way around i think someone said that already though

[Otis_Kat]

On 2006-07-10 23:36, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
The only denominations that are exempt from this general rule are Orthodox denominations (as they pre-date the Roman Catholic church), which can in fact be rather straight and narrow, but often suffer from discriminatory problems (ie, if you're not Greek, then the Greek Orthodox church offers you no salvation).I went to an Orthodox carnival yesterday for a raffle and was told I was going to hell by a lot of people for being there and not being of Lebenese or Turkish(The main groups holding the carnival)decent...


They had some damn good food though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Dahilia]

I don't care what anyone says, that "saved" mess is a scam. I'm not shocked at all she used the kitty dies thing; "crusaders," as I call them, use the corniest schemes to "save" people.

I really feel for you. Those kind of people are rampant where I live, so I empathise in so many ways.
I hope your friend gets saved from being "saved."

[Nixia]

I have nothing against religion, just the asshats that twist it to for their own selfish purposes. And asshats in general. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Oh, and the people who give me grief about my practicing more than one religion, especially when one of them is paganism. ZOMG UR A PAGAN!!11!! DAI HEATHEN!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

[FOmarl_Kerry]

Don't hate religion. We aren't a bunch of hippocrites...There are some very firm beleivers of many religions. Would you have been angry had he gone to a Bhuddist or Hindu camp and come back preaching of releasing his soul?

Don't be mad a Christianity specifically...people tend to think "Christianity" when they hear "religion"...

[Jehosaphaty]

The battle of technicalities, in regards to atheism being a religion or viceversa or whatever, is delicioius. It's like who came first, the chicken or the egg? Who gives a shit? I didn't bother to read pages 1-5. Hope I didn't miss anything interesting.

[-memoru-]

why won't this thread die?! D:

[TheyCallMeJoe]

On 2006-07-24 21:20, Jehosaphaty wrote:
I didn't bother to read pages 1-5. Hope I didn't miss anything interesting.



You missed a thread war between religious and aetheist folk, plus the arguement of the theory of evolution. If that interests you, go right ahead and take a peek. But honestly, I have to agree with Memoru. This thread has diverged wayyyy off the original purpose of me writing this. Nobody can truly define what is "fact"...since real is merely the varying perceptions of the human mind. It's a pointless debate.