Point of tech power for on-forces

[Carlo210]

This is jsut something I havenn't understood - what is the point of having Technique Power as a ranger or hunter? I mean, they have a lower Tech Power stat than forces, but why do they even have it at all? Sure, it's gotta raise as your character levels so, if you switch to a force, your Technique power would be high. Still, though, you can't cast magic unless you're a force, so I don't know why the stat is there.

[MAGNUShunter]

I was under the impression that you could cast "weak" magic if you were not a force. Is this incorrect?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MAGNUShunter on 2006-07-12 18:02 ]</font>

[drkoolguy]

From what i understand, it serves as a tech defence too, so you take less damage from spells.

[Carlo210]

No, you can't cast any spells as a non-force.
Also, there is a seperate stat for magic defense - mental strength.

[MAGNUShunter]

Ahh. Thx.

[DizzyDi]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, this is speculation, and I said this in another thread BUT! I heard eventually, somewhere down the line you will be able to dual-job. So that way you could Be a RA/FO, but your FO will be like half the lvl of your RA. Like I said, it was a rumor I heard, may or may not be implemented, although it does make sense and I wouldn't be surprised if I saw it happen in the final release.

[Pure-chan]

Is there anything rules out TAP being used to either a) govern damage caused by Photon Arts/Bullets, or b) effect the reserve of PP available for Photon Arts and/or Bullets? TAP seems like the most logical stat that would effect these moves, since they're the HU and RA equivalent of Technics.

[Lyrise]

The fact that the PA status screens show the modifiers, of which Technique Attack Power is not one of.

[Carlo210]

Someone must've played the beta. What does TAP dictate???

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-12 19:53, Carlo210 wrote:
Someone must've played the beta. What does TAP dictate???

Technic Attack Power... figure it out?

(The damage done by technics, i.e. force spells.)

[Carlo210]

Kyuu, is that some kind of joke?

First post in thread: "This is jsut something I havenn't understood - what is the point of having Technique Power as a ranger or hunter? I mean, they have a lower Tech Power stat than forces, but why do they even have it at all? Sure, it's gotta raise as your character levels so, if you switch to a force, your Technique power would be high. Still, though, you can't cast magic unless you're a force, so I don't know why the stat is there. "
I said what TAP is 3 times. I also know that it dictates your technic power.
My 'question' is what does it do for hunters and rangers? They don't cast spells. I am wondering if it has something to do with how much PP you have on your weapons.

So... does it?

[Kers]

This is just a thought, but maybe TAP modifies status effects (burn, poison, freeze, ect) as well as Photon Techniques?

Hunters and Rangers could be affected by their amount of TAP in the sense of casting offensive status effects (through traps, SUVs, rare weapons, whatever).

Another thought is: even though the Hunter and Ranger classes don't have Techniques, maybe the use certain rare weapons will have teqnique casting abilities?

TAP should effect something for Hunters and Rangers!

[Carlo210]

Doubt it because elemental effects on weapons are set at an amount (25%, for example). The damage will be increased or decrease by 25% depending on the enemy's resistance to it.
Also, someone has tried to tell me that ranger elemental attacks get better as your class levels (ice shot becomes an area-effect kinda thing), but he never got back to me on that (it's in one of these threads somewhere. I ahte it when people don't give answers to a topic they brought up). Anywho, who has played the beta. Hmm?
Remember, weapons pp is used by every class (rangers use it to shoot, hunters use it to use photon blasts, and forces use it to cast spells). Can someone confirm or deny if TAP affects both Power of spells and Amount of PP on weapons.

[Carlo210]

I jsut thought of something. Maybe TAP has to do with the power of your photon blasts/bullets?
Heck, if someone who played the beta would jsut post this'd be a lot easier to sort out. Blargh!
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ...

[Kers]

Quote: Doubt it because elemental effects on weapons are set at an amount (25%, for example). The damage will be increased or decrease by 25% depending on the enemy's resistance to it.-

As for Hunter PAs, higher TAP could compensate for the monster's higher resistance!

Quote: Also, someone has tried to tell me that ranger elemental attacks get better as your class levels (ice shot becomes an area-effect kinda thing), but he never got back to me on that-

I think the increases in elemental attacks as the players level could still have TAP play a part, in that TAP increases with leveling.

[Carlo210]

That's be cool because that'd actually be a pretty big 'equalizer' for the Cast class as rangers.
So, are we also assuming that TAP dictates the power dished out from melee photon blasts? There has to be a reasonf or hunters to have TAP.


Someone who has played the beta (there are many of you) - post when you can.

[Kers]

I think the melee SUV is also defined by attack power. But since SUVs have status effects from what I said before, TAP could still have value.

[Carlo210]

We'll have to wait for someone to kindly post. *waits*
These boards can really be dead... Yawn

I've done so much speculation on games in the past, and it's proven to be a waste of brainpower.
Someone, just post the facts, alright?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-12 21:52 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

On 2006-07-12 18:47, Pure-chan wrote:
Is there anything rules out TAP being used to either a) govern damage caused by Photon Arts/Bullets, or b) effect the reserve of PP available for Photon Arts and/or Bullets? TAP seems like the most logical stat that would effect these moves, since they're the HU and RA equivalent of Technics.


Woah, didn't realise you posted this! That's the same reasoning I'm using.
Currently, no beta tester wants to or is online to give us some sort of answer. We have to wait.

[A2K]

I vaguely recall someone posting that most of the attack power of bow-type weapons comes from TAP? If I'm not mistaken, though, bows were force class only anyway.

[Kyuu]

If you understand what TAP is, then the answer to your question about what good TAP does hunters/rangers is:

No one knows. From what we know and have seen so far, it does absolutely nothing.

[mechatra]

Well I can't give you a solid answer as to why Hu's and Ra's have TAP, but I can kill some misinformed ideas off.

First off, I believe it was Lyrise who already said, TAP does not effect anything about Skills or Bullets, only Technics. This is because there are already damage calculation setups on a certain wiki page, and TAP is not one of the effecting factors.

Secondly as bullets raise, the damage does go up, but that's because they're raising in level, nothing to do with your TAP. The percentage chance of effecting their respective element also raises but each level of bullet has a set %

Finally, the PP of a weapon is not governed by the user at all. You buy or find a weapon and it has a PP capacity, thats it. The only way this can increase is through grinding the weapon.

So far it really looks like there's no point to TAP outside of Forces =S

[Carlo210]

I know the PP of a weapon is governed by the type of weapon, but TAP could play a role. For example, weapons have a set damage output, but the amount of ATP makes you do more damage with it. This could be the same with PP on weapons/guns. A rifle could have 400 TAP base, but the amount of TAP you have dictates the final amount of PP you have.
Who knows.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-13 10:31 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-13 10:31, Carlo210 wrote:
I know the PP of a weapon is governed by the type of weapon, but TAP could play a role. For example, weapons have a set damage output, but the amount of ATP makes you do more damage with it. This could be the same with PP on weapons/guns. A rifle could have 400 TAP base, but the amount of TAP you have dictates the final amount of PP you have.
Who knows.

No, we do know. The amount of PP a weapon has has zero to do with your TAP. The only way PP may be affected by a character's stats is that it's speculated the endurance stat might affect the rate at which PP regenerates. But, that's entirely speculation and has not been confirmed.

[Lyrise]

PP capacity on a weapon is FIXED. It's only changed from grinding and using good materials for synthesis. The user will have absolutely nothing to do with it. You could be a cast, a beast or a newman, no matter what you use, it's always going to be the same.

At the moment, TAP (as you call it) is good for one thing and one thing only - magic damage. Why other classes have it? Perhaps you'll have to level up your classes past 10 to find out if you can truly use techs or not. Beta was only limited to 10 levels after all.

[Carlo210]

One more question - what declares how much damage you do with guns? Is it static?

[Kyuu]

Unless I'm sadly mistaken, I believe gun damage is determined by ATP, just like it was in PSO.

[Carlo210]

So hunters do more damage with their guns than Rangers? I guess it's evened out since rangers get better accuracy and can use better guns. I guess ATA and guns is what seperates hunters from rangers then, right?

[Kyuu]

Correct... and also the fact that rangers can level their bullet arts past level one, allowing them to burn, freeze, poison, paralyze, etc. much more effectively than a hunter ever could.

[Lyrise]

A hunter can level a B.Art to 10 max. A Ranger can get theirs to 20. That's an additional 15-30% damage + 1-2 levels of status severity. Besides, B.Arts have pretty severe Accuracy penalties only a Ranger could overcome easily, meaning that when you fire a shot, you're not wasting PP.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-07-13 11:10, Lyrise wrote:
A hunter can level a B.Art to 10 max. A Ranger can get theirs to 20. That's an additional 15-30% damage + 1-2 levels of status severity. Besides, B.Arts have pretty severe Accuracy penalties only a Ranger could overcome easily, meaning that when you fire a shot, you're not wasting PP.

Ah right, sorry, level 10. I was thinking Photon Arts for forces. ~_~

[Carlo210]

Yeah. Anyways, do you think the casts race's increased accuracy over humans is such a big deal when choosing a ranger? Casts start at 47 while humans start at 40. Just something ese ranger-related that is on my mind.

[Earthsunderer]

At level 1? I doubt it's going to play such a big deal.

At level 30? Pretty sure the Cast Ranger is upper range.

At level 100 (assuming the maximum level cap at 200 for instance)? I doubt any other race ranger will have as much accuracy.

At level 200? Unequal advantage that probably no other ranger from a different race could attain.

This all assuming the growth stays constant and neglecting race and genderspecific hidden items that may cange everything.

[Lyrise]

Personally, I think the race plays a minor role in comparison to the form you're gonna take, though the race chosen can help offset class faults and vice versa; this is where the beauty of PSU's race/form system lies.

For example, with enough levels, even a beast, who generally have the worst accuracy of all, if under the ranger form, could potentially be an extremely damaging class. Rifle B.art max for rangers usually caps off at 80% in beta, so -20% accuracy isn't a very big hit, given that the Ranger Form would up your accuracy tremendously. Pair that with status infliction, the fact that beasts attack power is really high, and ranged attacks (which would offset the low evasion and HP), you've got the makings for a devastating class. And just to add insult to injury, you can even use nanoblast as a way to escape deadly situations.

In the case of humans though, they're solid in every category. They don't have anything to really boast about, but when you think about it, they don't have any glaring weaknesses either...

[Carlo210]

I can't really find a glaring weaknesses to the cast class, other than the have weaker magic defense and weaker technic power.

Anyways, being a cast ranger seems cool because, imo, they look more like a ranger type of class. The look of an armored soldier (robot) slashing enemies with dual sabers doesn't look as fit as it would if the armored soldier was shooting enemies with a rifle. I don't know...
It just seems that, if you were to slap a cast's armor on a human, they wouldn't be agile enough to move like a hunter should. This has no relation to how the races are with classes - I'm going purely by how I see things aesthetically for my own taste.

Plus, I think the cast fleshyfaces look unique and interesting. The humans are still one of my favorites so far just because, well, they're humans and they don't have any visual drawbacks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Thus far, if I were to be a ranger, I'd be cast or human (cast preferred)
If I were to be a hunter, I'd be human or cast (human preferred)
If I were to be a force, I'd be newman or human (the newman elf-ears are discouraging)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-13 13:56 ]</font>

[Lyrise]

Well, weaker magic defense is a big hazard on Neudaiz, where pretty much EVERYTHING will use techs against you. This isn't quite PSO where you can just shrug off the damage either. Of course like in the previous point I've brought up, you could remedy that by being a Force/Ranger Form; you may not do as much as the other races, but you will be able to do a sizable amount regardless, plus the fact that casts have good defense and HP just kills off the remaining flaws.

Of course, there's no point in talking about what class is best for what form, every class performs somewhat evenly overall. The performance variations all depend on your own play style.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-07-13 15:23 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

Except for Cast and Beast Forces. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Come on. 30 TAP against 70 TAP.

[Lyrise]

Most of your TAP comes from your weaponry anyway.

[The-King]

This is why they let you choose j-o-bs

I just really want to use the weapon combos like Handgun and Saber

Machine gun and Dagger, its gonna be sweet, if only it was the same for Knuckles, Saber and Knuckle....Awesome



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The-King on 2006-07-13 15:56 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

a beast force doesnt sound so bad tho. sure, you would have weak offensive magic but support techs would prob be fine. then w/ your extra defense points and HP, youd have much better survivabilty compared to the newman forces.

beast force = best white mage in psu?

[Carlo210]

Theyd have worse ability to heal other players since TAP plays a role.

[Inazuma]

hmm your prob rite. they remind me of pso's fomarl. best defense outta all the forces but weakest magic. the fonewearl was the better white mage b/c of resta healing more.

ok so that means beast force = fomarl

[Garroway]

So what if having technic power really does do nothing for you as a Ranger or Hunter - it's not like it hurts you by having it...

[Carlo210]

Then so be it. The reason for my concern is it could 'benefit' you in some way. Casts have low TAP, meaning, if tap does something as a hunter or ranger, casts will actually have a negative aspect.

[Sev]

Even in FFXI where having INT as another class seemed pointless... It did something. You had modifiers for certain Weapon Skills where INT would play a role, mostly elemental skills would do more damage if you had more INT.

Of course, this isn't the same game, so that doesn't matter at all. I'd like to believe that there'd be no more randomly useless stats to one class or another, you can't really say that Force has any stat that they can't use. Guess that's just the way it'll be though, TAP affecting Skills and Bullets was the way I thought Newman Hunters would catch up a bit, but Evasion and decent Accuracy is enough I guess. Doesn't matter for me since I'm gonna be a Human. My whole thing was that I'm pretty sure TAP was translated to Technic Attack Power, and not Technique Attack Power, and that Techniques = Force Spells, whereas Technics = Skills, Bullets, and Techniques.

That's what really bugs the hell out of me about it I guess.

[Lyrise]

You never know, you never know!
n
Everything I say about this only reflects the experiences I have in beta. For all we know, there might just be a SA or a BA that relies on TAP.

[Carlo210]

SA oe BA?

[Lyrise]

Skills and shots respectively.

[Sev]

Guess we'll see when we see. It'd be nice for it to affect something that, that would be true balancing on their part. I really say... It's not so much that one race should be worse at a job, but more to the point they play it in a different way then other races. That's true balance right there.