In your opinion, is phantasy star universe an MMO? [Archive]

Carlo210

Jul 13, 2006, 12:01 AM

On 2006-07-12 21:58, EnixBelmont wrote:
I say it is an MMO. Everything is in instance, yes, but MMO just stands for massively multiplayer online RPG. I say it is an MMO, because a massive amount of people all play it. And its an RPG. Its an MMO, just not in the traditional sense of the word.

Sorry, I can't type today, its late and I didnt sleep last night. Sorry if you have no clue what I was trying to say XD

Yeah, you got a point. I never knew sea squid were that big of an issue for deep sea divers. That new deep-sea squid-executing troupe seems like a dandy idea, Enix.

Edit: Someone better get this...

[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-12 22:01 ]

Foxix

Jul 13, 2006, 12:30 AM

yes this is true but the fact is that the amount that these players can interact and change the world is far more limited than say an actual MMO

and I am sorry carlos but I don't get it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Carlo210

Jul 13, 2006, 12:36 AM

He said: Sorry if you have no clue what I was trying to say XD

I made it clear that I 'didn't' have a clue what he was saying.
(although I udnerstood what he was saying perfectly)

*Nudge Nudge*
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_chuck-ball.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-12 22:37 ]

Foxix

Jul 13, 2006, 12:39 AM

D'oh! NOW I get it... man I am really slow today http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Jife_Jifremok

Jul 13, 2006, 01:24 AM

I don't know anything about sea squid, but I will say that it used to be quite clear what was an MMORPG and what wasn't. Games like Guild Wars, Auto Assault (car combat MMORPG) and PSU are blurring these lines something fierce, and without a clear definition of what makes something MMO (such as, is it just the amount of people in a town, or does the non-town stuff count too?) there's probably gonna be no end to the debate. I'm in the camp of "Who cares?", and I could call both PSU and GW pseudo-MMOs as a compromise.

But if I need to give a short answer, I'm not calling PSU an MMO just because of the fully realtime combat system complete with full manual control that the common MMORPG lacks.

A2K

Jul 13, 2006, 01:39 AM

I'm going to with "who cares." I see no use in diving into the particulars and semantics and such. It's online, it's multiplayer, it will (most likely) be pretty fun, no matter how you label or categorize it.

Ryudo

Jul 13, 2006, 07:19 AM

The term MMORPG is deprecated now anyway, online games are now classified as Persistent Online Games or Non-persistent.

Garroway

Jul 13, 2006, 07:55 AM

Firstly - I feel like I've somehow cheapened my existance by even putting my 2 cents into this debate...

Secondly - after several minutes of research into what an MMO actualy is I've come to the determination that nobody has actualy hammered down a deffinate deffinition. There are many general similarities between commonly accepted MMO's but I can't find any hard criteria that makes the final determination.

Finnaly - Is this what the next 3-4 months (assuming there is no further delay) are going to be like around here? You guys ever hear that expression, "A watched pot never boils"?

DavidNel

Jul 13, 2006, 08:46 AM

OFFTOPIC: If Superman was watching a pot. he coul use his laser eye... thing!

ONTOPPIC: From my understanding, PSU is a MMO because there are a lot of people playing the same game. So, what I'm really trying to say is, any online game that is good is an MMO.

Jaske

Jul 13, 2006, 08:52 AM

How can you really decide when it's not even out yet, MMO - Mass Multiplayer Online, if theres alot of people playing it online then sure... such as halo can be considered one and Diablo 2 back in the day. MMORPG thats a diff story. But hell it's phantasy star and it's an rpg off line and if it has RPG elements online then it's MMORPG or atleast ORPG but I'm pretty sure phantasy star has a gigantic fan base for it to be MMORPG.

Combat_Wombat

Jul 13, 2006, 09:22 AM

Does it really matter i mean come on, it's Phantasy Star im sure it will do well. oh and Pray that the online is free xD

Kyuu

Jul 13, 2006, 01:02 PM

On 2006-07-13 07:22, Combat_Wombat wrote:
Does it really matter i mean come on, it's Phantasy Star im sure it will do well. oh and Pray that the online is free xD

I don't enjoy crushing dreams, but no way in hell.

... Okay, I did enjoy that just a little. >.>

Pyronin

Jul 13, 2006, 01:11 PM

Its not an MMO because you can't have as many people as you want in a single map, it only goes up to 4 (in PSO) and 6 (in PSU). Sure there are hundreds of people in the cities but you can only trade, talk, and other social non-violent stuff.

Abaru-FP

Jul 13, 2006, 01:11 PM

The only thing that would separate PSU from a MMORPG is the lack of travel time and competition. Instead of having to run/fly/ride from the main cities to your leveling area, PSU allows you to transport there instantly and eliminates the need for competeing for pulls. Its like a sleeker, faster, sexier MMO.

tank1

Jul 13, 2006, 01:14 PM

I went for "who cares" because i think PSU is somewhere inbetween being an MMO and not quite being one.

Sevenfold

Jul 13, 2006, 01:42 PM

In the end, I could go with a hybrid of sorts. But, its just so much easier to call it an MMO. For example, why in the world do I need to name every single type of rock muisc something different? Im just going to call anything I like rock, and make it simple. Same with the MMO delima here.

zandra117

Jul 13, 2006, 04:15 PM

Its a Hybrid MMO end of story. Lets just call it an HMMO for short.

Shivore

Jul 13, 2006, 08:18 PM

I say it's an MMO, because the style of play will be like an MMO. If I wanted to describe the game to someone, I would start by comparing it to an MMO. And to be honest, I fail to see how anyone who doesn't like MMO's can like PSU. I know there are people like that, but I don't understand it.

Sev

Jul 13, 2006, 08:19 PM

On 2006-07-13 11:11, Pyronin wrote:
Its not an MMO because you can't have as many people as you want in a single map, it only goes up to 4 (in PSO) and 6 (in PSU). Sure there are hundreds of people in the cities but you can only trade, talk, and other social non-violent stuff.

I'm not sure if it does it with all maps... But on City of Heroes/Villains, when there's people overloading a map (I've only seen it with towns) it'll create a second town. And this does matter because there are things to be fought in every zone.

Also, in FFXI you don't fight in towns... That doesn't change the fact that it's considered an MMORPG.

And for the last one... Doesn't really matter what it's considered, it can be both if you look at it in different ways. So yes, PSU goes both ways.

Please don't read into that. At all.

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 09:05 PM

On 2006-07-13 14:15, zandra117 wrote:
Its a Hybrid MMO end of story. Lets just call it an HMMO for short.

Or, lets not, since that is dangerously close to the word homo >_>

The-King

Jul 13, 2006, 09:09 PM

What is an MMO anyway?

zandra117

Jul 13, 2006, 09:11 PM

Wewt

Jul 13, 2006, 09:14 PM

Well, I used to play PSO back in the day. Then I left the game for others, and eventually found FFXI. I still play it. It's not perfect, but I like a lot of aspects of it. One of them is the economy in it.

After some homework on PSU, I'm branding it not an MMORPG, because it's too much like PSO. Now sure how I'll like a PSO style game after playing an MMORPG and really enjoying it, but I'm pretty sure I'll try it regardless.

Of course, I could be wrong since there's still a lot to learn about the game, and developers don't like to give too much away, but you'd think if it was an MMORPG, we'd know by now.

BTW, my definition of an MMORPG is being able to take part in the action with massive amounts of people where there are worlds and areas that can occupy many, many people. PSU houses 6 "per room" as far as I know.

zandra117

Jul 13, 2006, 09:16 PM

On 2006-07-13 19:09, The-King wrote:
What is an MMO anyway?

A Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) is an online computer role-playing game (RPG) in which a large number of players interact with one another in a virtual world. As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (traditionally in a fantasy setting) and take control over most of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game.

Though MMORPGs have evolved considerably, many of them share various characteristics.

Traditional Dungeons & Dragons style gameplay, including quests, monsters, and loot.
A system for character development, usually involving levels and experience points.
An economy, based on trading of items (such as weapons and armor) and a regular currency.
Guilds or clans, which are organizations of players, whether or not the game actively supports them.
Game Moderators (or Game Masters, frequently abbreviated to GM), sometimes paid individuals in charge of supervising the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG

I believe that PSU fits under that definition.

Plus the wikipedia article actually says that PSO is in fact an MMORPG. "In 2002, Final Fantasy XI was released, which hoped to bring in fans of the extremely popular (but single-player) Final Fantasy series, which was particularly popular in Japan. Like the previous Final Fantasy games, this one was playable on a console, using a handheld controller, but bore little resemblance to gameplay in prior Final Fantasy titles. Though not the first console MMORPG (this was probably Phantasy Star Online, for the Dreamcast)"

[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-07-13 19:23 ]

The-King

Jul 13, 2006, 09:21 PM

Heh, now I have another question...What does it all matter? What matters in a video game is Gameplay and Graphics, not if its a special type of one game, Can;t we all just get along, these Video game Special genres are tearing us all apart!

Wewt

Jul 13, 2006, 09:27 PM

PSO was definitely not an MMORPG. The game was limited to 4 player battles. PSU is limited to 6. The fact that you can "interact" with people in a lobby doesn't really take people to the core of the game where you do the fighting and exploring.

Well, The-King, it matters to me. Upon finding out that PSU was not going to be in a typical MMORPG style, it put me off the game a little.

zandra117

Jul 13, 2006, 09:31 PM

I have found the official genre of PSO, Guild Wars, and PSU.
It is a CORPG.
A competitive/cooperative online role-playing game (commonly abbreviated CORPG) is an online genre of computer and video games centered around the creation and development of an avatar with the intent of competing with and against others in a global competition or cooperating together in a private instance of the game world.

The term was first coined along-side the creation of Guild Wars, after the developers decided that their game did not to fit under the usual MMORPG moniker, due to its almost total use of instanced playing areas.

Other games in this category could include Diablo and Phantasy Star Online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CORPG

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 09:31 PM

Why? Because now people can't KS you? Or a lesser sense of exploration, I'm guessing?

Eh. If you want exploration, go buy WoW or something. PSU is going to have far better combat to make up for that tenfold. Thats the main reason PSU >>> All other MMOs(barring a few, possibly). The combat is actually something you would find in a non-rpg game. Its not just Click, click, click.....

The-King

Jul 13, 2006, 09:31 PM

No need to get snippy, its a game, no ones going to die over it, maybe in it, but not over it, lets just agree to disagree, hmm?

The-King

Jul 13, 2006, 09:35 PM

On 2006-07-13 19:31, EnixBelmont wrote:
Why? Because now people can't KS you? Or a lesser sense of exploration, I'm guessing?

Eh. If you want exploration, go buy WoW or something. PSU is going to have far better combat to make up for that tenfold. Thats the main reason PSU >>> All other MMOs(barring a few, possibly). The combat is actually something you would find in a non-rpg game. Its not just Click, click, click.....

Preach it mate

Wewt

Jul 13, 2006, 09:37 PM

More importantly about the MMORPG genre, it has "endgame" material. PSO never really had that, unless you count C-Mode...

Wewt

Jul 13, 2006, 09:39 PM

On 2006-07-13 19:31, EnixBelmont wrote:
Why? Because now people can't KS you? Or a lesser sense of exploration, I'm guessing?

Directed at me?

Carlo210

Jul 13, 2006, 09:47 PM

Well, no one knows what a CORPG is (you'd still have to explain what type of game PSU is after telling them it's a CORPG), so I'm still referring it as half mmo/half mo.

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 09:53 PM

On 2006-07-13 19:39, Wewt wrote:

On 2006-07-13 19:31, EnixBelmont wrote:
Why? Because now people can't KS you? Or a lesser sense of exploration, I'm guessing?

Directed at me?

Oh. Yeah, that was directed at you XD

Also, what do you mean by endgame material in other MMOs? PvP?

Wewt

Jul 13, 2006, 09:57 PM

PvP is one of them. Another is, and this is the main one, where you basically spend most of your time enhancing your character by gaining new abilities and items and taking on large scale quests/missions with large parties/alliances. PSU's already been limited to 6 people per party, so we'll have to see how things turn out for it.

My memory of PSO was, after you hit the level cap or get bored of that character, you level a new character or play battle mode or C-Mode.

edit:

Exploration gets old. It gets old real fast. I learned this the hard way, and I have to say I really don't care much for exploration in RPGs anymore.

[ This Message was edited by: Wewt on 2006-07-13 19:58 ]

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 10:04 PM

Well, PSU is entirely mission based now. And as for enhancing your character....What do you call rares? And synthesizing and clothes play even more of a part in this game.

PvP is much better in other MMOs, but IMO still sucks ass. Not quite the level of sucktasticness as Battle mode, but still mostly sucked. Guild wars is the only MMO that really pulled this off well.

I never cared for exploration, either....I just dont see what pros other MMOs have over PSU.

Sev

Jul 13, 2006, 10:11 PM

Endgame... Is something that people do at the end of the game...

For instance... In FFXI there's Dynamis... What is Dynamis you ask? It's where the high level characters in FFXI go to die. Kinda like the elephant graveyard in a sense. Now there's the Aht Urghan area for them to die in, but in essence... They only go to these places to die.

Of course that's a joke, but basically... Endgame is making your character better. Of course, there was rare hunting if PSO but that got ruined, so you had endgame... Just didn't get to do it. Same with finding mates and actually hitting level 200. After you hit 200 you could still rare hunt if you wanted to do it legitely. And there were still quests and such which came up like Maximum Attack, Seat of the Heart, Toward the Future. This was all endgame if you wanted it to be.

Simply put, not many people got to endgame PSO legitly anyway, I'm not saying that no one did. But not many did.

Wewt

Jul 13, 2006, 10:14 PM

To myself, and a lot of people I knew from the game, searching for rares in PSO got boring too fast as there wasn't much variety at all.

What turns me away from PSO, now that I think about it, is the fact that after you hit the level cap, there was just too little to do. PSU is a different game, I know, but I haven't seen enough for me to think it's that different to PSO.

You just reminded me of the ridiculous level cap Dreamcast Version 2 had >_>

PhotonCat

Jul 13, 2006, 10:28 PM

Seriously, what's with all these topics debating this?

PSU/PSO is a MMO/MMORPG. They are online RPGs that you play with other people. Simple enough.

MMO/MORPG doesn't = non-instanced(ahem, most MMORPGS have instances - WoW, EQ2, D&D etc). Even with instances there is 1,000s of other players playing the game online as you do.

The people who think that PSU isn't a MMO are like the people who think every game that has lvl ups, turn-based gameplay and a story is an RPG...

It boggles the mind.

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 10:34 PM

On 2006-07-13 20:28, PhotonCat wrote:
Seriously, what's with all these topics debating this?

PSU/PSO is a MMO/MMORPG. They are online RPGs that you play with other people. Simple enough.

MMO/MORPG doesn't = non-instanced(ahem, most MMORPGS have instances - WoW, EQ2, D&D etc). Even with instances there is 1,000s of other players playing the game online as you do.

The people who think that PSU isn't a MMO are like the people who think every game that has lvl ups, turn-based gameplay and a story is an RPG...

It boggles the mind.

....Every game that has level-ups, turn based gameplay, and story IS an RPG.

Sev

Jul 13, 2006, 10:43 PM

On 2006-07-13 20:34, EnixBelmont wrote:

On 2006-07-13 20:28, PhotonCat wrote:
Seriously, what's with all these topics debating this?

PSU/PSO is a MMO/MMORPG. They are online RPGs that you play with other people. Simple enough.

MMO/MORPG doesn't = non-instanced(ahem, most MMORPGS have instances - WoW, EQ2, D&D etc). Even with instances there is 1,000s of other players playing the game online as you do.

The people who think that PSU isn't a MMO are like the people who think every game that has lvl ups, turn-based gameplay and a story is an RPG...

It boggles the mind.

....Every game that has level-ups, turn based gameplay, and story IS an RPG.

But RPG's aren't defined by just that. That's not ALL that RPG's can be. And you don't have to be an RPG to include level ups or have a turn based system... Of course Story... I don't need to say anything there, any kind of game can have a story.

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 10:48 PM

Uh, yeah, they basically are. The term RPG, when it comes to games, doesn't just mean "Role Playing game" any more. Now, it means a game you can level up in with a focus on story, generally having random battles(or battles you get into by touching enemies). Games that allow you to make your own character that have most of this, like PSU, are also roleplaying games because that character is basically you.

Sev

Jul 13, 2006, 11:09 PM

They aren't defined by that, if they were, there wouldn't be so many different types. You just defined the genre, it says nothing about leveling up, and it says nothing about being turnbased. Not trying to be too much of a dick, just trying to prove the point that it's not something needed to be an RPG.

EnixBelmont

Jul 13, 2006, 11:11 PM

Well, maybe not, but my point was they all do fall into the RPG category. Photon Cat said that all games like that aren't RPGs...I disagreed.

PhotonCat

Jul 14, 2006, 01:44 AM

....Every game that has level-ups, turn based gameplay, and story IS an RPG.

Not trying to argue but, An RPG is a game where you make your own character and the game is played from your point of view, as in, you make all the decisions and such.

How does leveling-up, turn-based, and story mean ROLE PLAYING? It doesn't.

The Japanese just label all their games that have those 3 things as "RPGs" when they are not.

In that sence, if let's say, the next Resident Evil had lvling, you'd say it's an RPG? See how that doesn't make sence?

Most "RPGs" these days are just interactive story games.
Oblivion is an RPG, Final Fantasy 12 isn't.

Foxix

Jul 14, 2006, 02:10 AM

On 2006-07-13 23:44, PhotonCat wrote:
[quote] The Japanese just label all their games that have those 3 things as "RPGs" when they are not....

Most "RPGs" these days are just interactive story games.
Oblivion is an RPG, Final Fantasy 12 isn't.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_chuck-ball.gif

hold on let me grab some

http://www.farnhamandpfile.com/images/partyrentals/popcorn_bag.gif

I wanna see how this plays out

hmm lets see in any story driven game are you not making adjustments to your characters, changing them and experiencing the story as it is told? In this way are you not taking on the role of the main character/s and experiencing the story as it unfolds from your/the characters perspective?

Jife_Jifremok

Jul 14, 2006, 02:36 AM

(note: I didn't think this through thouroughly so don't be surprised if I missed something)

Unfortunately, regardless of how much you can choose when developing the characters, you are basically set on a dotted-line path without really making many actual decisions that can influence the story. Sidequests are often insignificant compared to the main story, and chances are you cannot go off and explore certain regions until you've completed the plot events in your current area. If there's a kingdom you don't wanna save, "But thou must". If the female lead loves your hero, your hero loves her back no matter what other female you'd rather hook up with. If there's a trap during a cutscene, your hero will most likely fall for it. If he likes swords or axes, you cannot change that.

The role you most often play is that of a spectator. While Baten Kaitos for the Gamecube openly states this and uses that fact for its plot, the same is true for most common J-RPGs.

The contrast to this is what is often thought of about a typical Western-made RPG, most notably a Dungeons&Dragons game or Elder Scrolls: You can do whatever quests you want, make whatever type of character you please (within limitations of course), choose what you say, and the main plot feels rather minimal and insignificant compared to the freedom that you have on anything outside the plot. (However, these games are accompanied by tedious combat systems and the J-RPGs wind up being more fun to play anyway, but that's another story.)

lostinseganet

Jul 14, 2006, 06:58 AM

It is not massive enough in the dungeons. 6 is way to small. the battlefield series of games are 64 player. Need something like 100 to make a convincing massive status.

Kyuu

Jul 14, 2006, 10:19 AM

On 2006-07-14 04:58, lostinseganet wrote:
It is not massive enough in the dungeons. 6 is way to small. the battlefield series of games are 64 player. Need something like 100 to make a convincing massive status.

... Battlefield series? ~_~

Massively Multiplayer does not mean there is some magic party number where it starts being "massive." World of Warcraft is most definitely considered an MMO, and it's parties are limited to five people. Yes, there are raids of up to 40, but you spend less than 1/4 your time in such raids, even if you're part of a raiding guild (unless you only sign-on for the raids, of course). 99.9999999% of the time before you hit the level cap, you will be by yourself or in small groups of 5 or less.

Massively Multiplayer does NOT mean there's a big, non-instanced overworld, or that there has to be 40-man raids, or anything else that people like to make up to defend the arbitrary little line-in-the-sand they've drawn between what does and does not qualify for an MMO. Massively Multiplayer. Look at the words, and look at a dictionary. Put the two definitions you find together. That's what it means, and nothing more. You generally don't hear the term applied to anything other than an RPG, because, well, people are arbitrary and stupid. No such thing as an MMOFPS, but here we are having a completely meaningless debate about what qualifies or doesn't qualify as an MMORPG.

Sev

Jul 14, 2006, 01:25 PM

On 2006-07-14 08:19, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-07-14 04:58, lostinseganet wrote:
It is not massive enough in the dungeons. 6 is way to small. the battlefield series of games are 64 player. Need something like 100 to make a convincing massive status.

... Battlefield series? ~_~

Massively Multiplayer does not mean there is some magic party number where it starts being "massive." World of Warcraft is most definitely considered an MMO, and it's parties are limited to five people. Yes, there are raids of up to 40, but you spend less than 1/4 your time in such raids, even if you're part of a raiding guild (unless you only sign-on for the raids, of course). 99.9999999% of the time before you hit the level cap, you will be by yourself or in small groups of 5 or less.

Massively Multiplayer does NOT mean there's a big, non-instanced overworld, or that there has to be 40-man raids, or anything else that people like to make up to defend the arbitrary little line-in-the-sand they've drawn between what does and does not qualify for an MMO. Massively Multiplayer. Look at the words, and look at a dictionary. Put the two definitions you find together. That's what it means, and nothing more. You generally don't hear the term applied to anything other than an RPG, because, well, people are arbitrary and stupid. No such thing as an MMOFPS, but here we are having a completely meaningless debate about what qualifies or doesn't qualify as an MMORPG.

I think it would be more profitable if we charged admission to arguments. Since there all over this board and can get pretty entertaining.

Oh right... To be on topic umm... To be honest,I don't think a PS2 could handle 40 man PSU battles. I just don't think that'd fly. To me, it's not really the more the merrier. Raiding in large groups doesn't really seem fun, and if that classifies and MMO (Which of course it doesn't...) then I'm glad PSU's not in the bracket. Don't you feel alot more powerless when it takes 6 people to kill one damn rabbit?

[ This Message was edited by: Sev on 2006-07-14 11:40 ]

Neith

Jul 14, 2006, 01:36 PM

I really couldn't care if it's an MMORPG or not. It's online community will likely be smaller than the likes of WoW, but that doesn't mean it's not massively multiplayer.

Heh, as long as I enjoy playing it, I don't care what it's classed as.

lostinseganet

Jul 14, 2006, 01:49 PM

On 2006-07-14 08:19, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-07-14 04:58, lostinseganet wrote:
It is not massive enough in the dungeons. 6 is way to small. the battlefield series of games are 64 player. Need something like 100 to make a convincing massive status.

... Battlefield series? ~_~

Massively Multiplayer does not mean there is some magic party number where it starts being "massive." World of Warcraft is most definitely considered an MMO, and it's parties are limited to five people. Yes, there are raids of up to 40, but you spend less than 1/4 your time in such raids, even if you're part of a raiding guild (unless you only sign-on for the raids, of course). 99.9999999% of the time before you hit the level cap, you will be by yourself or in small groups of 5 or less.

Massively Multiplayer does NOT mean there's a big, non-instanced overworld, or that there has to be 40-man raids, or anything else that people like to make up to defend the arbitrary little line-in-the-sand they've drawn between what does and does not qualify for an MMO. Massively Multiplayer. Look at the words, and look at a dictionary. Put the two definitions you find together. That's what it means, and nothing more. You generally don't hear the term applied to anything other than an RPG, because, well, people are arbitrary and stupid. No such thing as an MMOFPS, but here we are having a completely meaningless debate about what qualifies or doesn't qualify as an MMORPG.

While there is no definate number which defines massive, massive still has to be a number regarded as big. Now the parties that play WoW may choose to play in groups of five the ability to play in such large groups is still there. The earth is filled with billions of people, but you will mostly interact with only a few people. The earth has a massive number of people so the potiential to meet and interact with large people is possible.
This one world is populated with all the people who you can both meet, and interact with. In the psu world you will never have the potiential to interact with so many people like in the world of warcraft or the planet earth. no matter the desire of the people who populate that world. That is the difference.
In WOW and earth it is choice in PSU there is no choice.
So massive requires a large number of people to potientaly interact with. Multiplayer requires the potiential players a task that they all use to interact with the world, and each other. Online requires all potiential participates to use internet bandwidth to communicate their interactions. RPG(role playing game) is simply a theme that is the stimlus that makes all potiential players actually interact. Also there is a MMOFPS it is called planetside. 500 players on one massive world.
http://planetside.station.sony.com/

Sev

Jul 14, 2006, 02:12 PM

All that labels do is give you a way to restrict and classify something. Then when you find something that's not in the regular category but at the same time can fall into it, you throw a fit and absolutely HAVE TO put it somewhere. Being who I am and how I am, I simply don't like labels. Just because it falls outside of the norm, doesn't mean you have to put it somewhere. To me, PSU could be an MMO, but at the same time it can't be. It doesn't matter to me, titles only take away from what it really is anyway.

If you wanna title PSU, how about just titling it as "NR" for Not Released? Then depending on how you like it, call it "VF" for Very Fun. I like that category myself.

PSU will be Online, it will be Multiplayer, and there could be alot of people on the game at once. That's what I like about it. I don't wanna have to deal with them when I'm fighitng mobs, I only wanna deal with my party.

Saner

Jul 14, 2006, 02:18 PM

you can jump between servers without limitations. that's pretty massive being able to interact with practically thousands more than you usually meet.

Vetto

Jul 14, 2006, 02:53 PM

In my opinion No.. No it's not and THAT why I love it.

Most MMORPGS there allot compotation in area to get quest items, gold, rare items. What I liked about PSO with i hope goes on in psu. Rare are a tad easier to get then your normal MMO. With makes you feel good to hold that special object knowing that this is one of MANY you can earn out in the world and that at any moment off of any mob it may drop for you. Made me warm and fuzzy =3.

Abaru-FP

Jul 16, 2006, 02:02 PM

Its a online action RPG, debating if a MM belongs somewhere in the equation is not grounds for a five page debate. Seriously, this is now borderline FKL material.

Massive: Because in one PSU session it is possible to see at least a hundred players at a social center at any time, I think you can put a check here.

Multiplayer: After logging on and coming in contact with any other player, PSU becomes a multiplayer game.

How is this becoming so complicated? PSO is one of a kind. Who cares if it hangs out with the MMORPG kids?

Blackwaltz-R

Jul 16, 2006, 03:18 PM

This is not a matter of opinion.

PSU is not a MMO.

This is a Fact.

Stop deluding yourselves.

Foxix

Jul 16, 2006, 03:30 PM

thank you black, and imo this is important. I you go and tell someone this is an MMO they will mosre than likely think along the lines of WOW if they are not familiar with the franchise. This is different and deserves a different title so that newbies know what they are getting into.

Kyuu

Jul 16, 2006, 04:11 PM

On 2006-07-16 13:18, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
This is not a matter of opinion.

PSU is not a MMO.

This is a Fact.

Stop deluding yourselves.

No, you're just presenting your opinion as fact.

Tell me what part of Massively Multiplayer Online PSU doesn't agree with. I've yet to see an argument show otherwise. Party size isn't an issue, nor is the system of lobbies and instances. Guild Wars is pretty much exactly the same, and it is considered an MMO by most.

Kasuke

Jul 16, 2006, 05:33 PM

MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online. PSU is indeed an MMO.

Ryudo

Jul 16, 2006, 06:48 PM

This is not a matter of opinion.

PSU is a MMO.

This is a Fact.

Stop deluding yourself

there's an equally well thought out counterargument ¬_¬

Shiro_Ryuu

Jul 16, 2006, 06:56 PM

I don't really care, so I voted it as such. I just wanna go around and slash things up with a character[s] that I can create and level up, which is why I'm getting this game. I don't care about its genre or whether its an mmo or not, I just wanna have fun playing this game.

Ether

Jul 16, 2006, 07:47 PM

On 2006-07-16 14:11, Kyuu wrote:

Tell me what part of Massively Multiplayer Online PSU doesn't agree with

Massive

PSU does not have a persistent world, it's impossible to have combat with more than 6 people at once. In a game like FFXI or WoW you're only really limited to however many people you can fit in an outdoor area, and its a few hundred in both games

Mixfortune

Jul 16, 2006, 08:03 PM

It's a game.

Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't somehow make it better or worse.

Moo2u

Jul 16, 2006, 08:14 PM

I qualifie it as an MMORPG, cause if you brake it down, PSU is a RPG with a lot of people playing it online at the same time. The reason most people don't qualifie it as one is because it is so different from other MMOs, which is also the reason I like it. But just because it's differently set up doesn't mean it's a different genre of game.

Kasuke

Jul 16, 2006, 08:19 PM

You people who say it's not are forgeting the overworld. The dungeons are instanced, but the overworld isn't. It's possible to have a 6 man team with 2 people on each planet.

Foxix

Jul 16, 2006, 08:29 PM

yes the overworld is large but it is still just basically a place to buy and sell items and thats it.
all of the actuall fighting, or what makes the game fun takes placein a much smaller enviroment. The fact alone that the majority of gameplay takes place instances means that it is not an MMO.

And as Mixfortune *bows to the Gitaroo Man* stated "Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't somehow make it better or worse." I did not make this thread to try to say one is better or one is worse, and I hope noone else thinks that either one is better since they all have their pros and cons. IMHO I think that they have the potential to be equally fun games. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Kasuke

Jul 16, 2006, 08:33 PM

-ahem- I said overworld, not city. You don't just warp from the city to the dungeon like PSO. I'm sure you've heard of the vehicles. Why have vehicles if there wasn't a place to drive them?

The cities are the lobbies, basically the same as in PSO, but with shops and your room, not to mention much bigger capacity.

Ifrian

Jul 16, 2006, 08:52 PM

Pso/u are soccer games.
Whoever thinks different just visit lobby 15 back on pso.

Pd: someone stated before pso/u is a ccorpg.

Ether

Jul 16, 2006, 08:56 PM

On 2006-07-16 18:33, Kasuke wrote:
You don't just warp from the city to the dungeon like PSO

Yes you do

http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psu200605101914020281rx.jpg

Outdoor areas with enemies still count as dungeons

Zinsian

Jul 16, 2006, 09:55 PM

i dont really count it as a MMORPG. ORPG BUT with a more interactive way of creating a game server (by creating a team!).

Tystys

Jul 16, 2006, 10:00 PM

I don't give a damn, it's PSU Online, homey!

EtherForce

Jul 16, 2006, 10:11 PM

I don't consider it an MMO cause it's all instanced. Imo in an MMO you sould be able to play the game with (not just chat with) hundreds of players in the same area/zone at the same time.

I dunno why people say it has more emphasis on online play. Imo it's just the opposite. It has more emphasis on offline play, hence the offline story mode with exclusive playable characters

Carlo210

Jul 16, 2006, 10:15 PM

PSU with more emphasis on offline? *dies*

Kyuu

Jul 17, 2006, 12:07 AM

On 2006-07-16 17:47, Ether wrote:

Massive

PSU does not have a persistent world, it's impossible to have combat with more than 6 people at once. In a game like FFXI or WoW you're only really limited to however many people you can fit in an outdoor area, and its a few hundred in both games

The word isn't Massive. It's Massively, an adjective that is modifying the word Multiplayer. All that "Massively Multiplayer Online" means is that there it is capable of supporting a lot of people for online play. That's it. It doesn't mean you can form 40-man raid parties, or whatever other definition people make up. Also, I never, not once, saw a few hundred, or even a hundred, people together in any outdoor area ever in WoW. The closest was 80 people in the Alterac Valley battleground (a full game with 40 on each side). That was an INSTANCE, however. Not to mention, you were generally with a small party of 5 or less even in there, unless you were engaged in throwing yourself mindlessly into the meat grinder known as the front lines. You still had 40 or less people on your screen at any one time.

Phantasy Star Universe can support 1000 people per server. Even if there was only one server up at a time, I'd still call 1000 people playing online simultaneously good enough to qualify for the term "Massively Multiplayer."

Edit: Personally, I could care less about whether or not PSU is grouped with games like WoW and FFXI. In fact I consider it superior to either. However, I still don't agree with people arbitrarily deciding what constitutes an MMO. Especially as most people are simply making things up and have no real idea what they're talking about.

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-16 22:10 ]

Foxix

Jul 17, 2006, 09:09 PM

On 2006-07-16 22:07, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-07-16 17:47, Ether wrote:

Massive

PSU does not have a persistent world, it's impossible to have combat with more than 6 people at once. In a game like FFXI or WoW you're only really limited to however many people you can fit in an outdoor area, and its a few hundred in both games

The word isn't Massive. It's Massively, an adjective that is modifying the word Multiplayer. All that "Massively Multiplayer Online" means is that there it is capable of supporting a lot of people for online play. That's it. It doesn't mean you can form 40-man raid parties, or whatever other definition people make up. Also, I never, not once, saw a few hundred, or even a hundred, people together in any outdoor area ever in WoW. The closest was 80 people in the Alterac Valley battleground (a full game with 40 on each side). That was an INSTANCE, however. Not to mention, you were generally with a small party of 5 or less even in there, unless you were engaged in throwing yourself mindlessly into the meat grinder known as the front lines. You still had 40 or less people on your screen at any one time.

Phantasy Star Universe can support 1000 people per server. Even if there was only one server up at a time, I'd still call 1000 people playing online simultaneously good enough to qualify for the term "Massively Multiplayer."

Edit: Personally, I could care less about whether or not PSU is grouped with games like WoW and FFXI. In fact I consider it superior to either. However, I still don't agree with people arbitrarily deciding what constitutes an MMO. Especially as most people are simply making things up and have no real idea what they're talking about.

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-16 22:10 ]

I have seen someone say something like this before.
It was someone stating that typical Japanese RPG's are not RPG's at all because you're not impacting the story and your not playing a role. By disecting the actual meaning of the term, certain things lose their common definition used by the majority of people.

So an RPG not made by a company like bethesda would not be considered an RPG using this logic. But since the more linear Japanese RPG's were some of the first to be ever be released the term has stuck and this is why we use it.

The same is true for an MMO since until recently the only titles that actually qualified were games like ragnarok, FFXI, and WOW. But what I am saying is that since these types of games have been considered MMO's first, this style of game is now considered to be the standard MMO.

However, the gameplay and style of grouping together and the world in general in PSU is so radically different in comparison. I don't think that this game can even be considered an MMO at all. Neither can titles like Guild Wars since they operate in a similar fashion. These titles should recieve an appropriate genre like CORPG that needs to be recognized by the general public so that the term MMO does not become a term used to describe any online game.

Garroway

Jul 18, 2006, 01:13 AM

....crap, I am this bored aren't I....

The only reason people say Guild Wars isn't an MMO is because wikipedia states that the creator didn't want it classified as such. That's great, I get lumped into the same category as the rest of you simpletons reguardless of what I decide I should be classified as. Yet this guy decided since he created it, it gets to be classified differently.

Since you're all so interested in having categories you might as well start from scratch as the self designated authorities. What I want to know is where on the chain is MMO? is it Kingdom, Phylum, or Class? Once you decide where MMO fits, where do the rest of your brilliant acronyms fit? Then once you have your tree hammered out, figure out where PSU belongs compared to other games. Then we can do another poll and we can jabber incoherently about why CORPG should be a Subphylum under Phylum MMORPG and not it's own Phylum, blah blah blah...

[ This Message was edited by: Garroway on 2006-07-17 23:18 ]

Kyuu

Jul 18, 2006, 01:20 AM

That's all fine and dandy, Foxix, but no such category as CORPG exists, and MMORPG is the only widely acknowledged genre under which PSU fits. No amount of arguing on these boards is going to make a new genre. Obviously PSU has many differences from games like WoW and FFXI, no one is saying otherwise. But the differences are really unimportant. The point of a genre is not to pinpoint exactly what the game is like. The point is to lump it with a large group of games with similar elements for convenience's sake.

I still don't see any reason why it shouldn't be under the genre of MMORPG.

Oh, and I give your rant a hearty thumbs-up, Garroway.

EtherForce

Jul 18, 2006, 09:18 AM

Who decides what an 'MMO' is anyways? I used to think Zelda and Tomb Raider were rpgs because you play the role of a specific character. But as it turns out those are largely classified as 'action/adventure' games simply because you don't gain exp and levels. So do we go by the history of the term and call anything which you gain exp and levels in an rpg or break it down and look at every little piece, which could easily classify games into different categories than what they are considered now?

Foxix

Jul 18, 2006, 09:15 PM

as garroway said, the creator of Guild Wars didn't wan't it to be classed as an MMO so why should PSU fall into the category when the other doesn't, Kyuu?

And at least a few people have acknowledged that CORPG is a seperate type. If you don't believe that then this is an ORPG since it shares more in common with that genre.

also, garroway, what about: order, genus, and species http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (is that right? I flunked biology due to a teacher that would walk out of class every 10 minutes and tell us to go ask someone else if we asked here a question)

Saner

Jul 18, 2006, 09:55 PM

offline and online RPG (OORPG) sounds better. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

after all, your typical MMORPGs don't have an offline mode. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Foxix

Jul 18, 2006, 09:59 PM

yes another excelent point http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_chicken.gif! since when do MMO's have offline mode! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_chicken.gif ftw!

Saner

Jul 18, 2006, 10:21 PM

On 2006-07-18 19:59, Foxix wrote:
yes another excelent point http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_chicken.gif! since when do MMO's have offline mode! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_chicken.gif ftw!

whyyy... mee... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

kazuma56

Jul 18, 2006, 10:31 PM

Well PSU doesn't havean "offline" mode which ties in with the online mode like previous versions, the online mode is an extension of its offline mode (follows the aftermath of what occured before).

As for the CORPG comment, it really doesn't "fit" PSU because there is no "competition" between players in PSU, BA mode no longer exists (or is said not to) at this point so unless you consider rare hunting "competition" in an instanced game then go ahead.

Ether

Jul 18, 2006, 10:43 PM

On 2006-07-17 23:20, Kyuu wrote:
no such category as CORPG exists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CORPG

MMORPG is the only widely acknowledged genre under which PSU fits. No amount of arguing on these boards is going to make a new genre

So because the term MMORPG is well known, everything should be lumped under it?

Obviously PSU has many differences from games like WoW and FFXI, no one is saying otherwise. But the differences are really unimportant

Most complaints about MMOs come from the combat systems they use, which can usually be summed up as click monster, then watch as your avatar stands there on autoattack until the monster dies. The vastly different combat system that PSO/PSU use that is unlike any other online game, I would consider an important difference

I still don't see any reason why it shouldn't be under the genre of MMORPG.

Lack of persistent world

EnixBelmont

Jul 18, 2006, 11:00 PM

"Lack of a persistant world" is not one of the qualifications of an MMORPG. It is massive, it is multiplayer, and it is an RPG.

EDIT: Woah, woah woah. I just read over that wiki you posted. "A cake-oriented role-playing game (commonly abbreviated CORPG) is an online genre of computer and video games centered around the creation and development of an avatar with the intent of eating an assload of cake together in a private instance of the game world.

The term was first coined along-side the creation of Guild Wars, after the developers decided that their game did not to fit under the usual MMORPG moniker, due to its almost total use of instanced cake-eating areas and focus on cake eating PvP (PvP) contests.

Other games in this category could include Diablo and Phantasy Star Online, since Phantasy Star online has referances to cake and diablo rhymes with orange."

....Although this was obviously edited, probably by someone that read this post, it's still hilarious as hell XD

Cake-oriented RPGs FTW.

[ This Message was edited by: EnixBelmont on 2006-07-18 21:09 ]

Kyuu

Jul 18, 2006, 11:12 PM

On 2006-07-18 20:43, Ether wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CORPGHow ironic. Go to that very same site to which you have linked me, and look up Phantasy Star Universe. Notice what genre it classfies it as. Here, I'll even give you the link so you don't have to do the work yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Universe

Also, my meaning was obviously that the term "CORPG" is not widely used as a genre for games, and I have yet to see any publication use it, nor I have seen any gaming company use the term for its own game asides from the makers of Guild Wars, who it seems made up the term for the same reasons some here seem to loathe the thought of PSU being under the MMORPG genre: a rather irrational thought that being classified an MMORPG somehow alters what the game actually is. The genre does not define the game. It's simply a convenient way to lump a large number of games sharing similar qualities together for the sake of convenience.

So because the term MMORPG is well known, everything should be lumped under it?Well, yes, actually. Not quite as you state it, though; because the term MMORPG is well known, and an accepted genre under which to classify these sorts of games, then it should be put there, yes.

Most complaints about MMOs come from the combat systems they use, which can usually be summed up as click monster, then watch as your avatar stands there on autoattack until the monster dies. The vastly different combat system that PSO/PSU use that is unlike any other online game, I would consider an important difference.See, this is the real reason most people don't want to classify it as an MMORPG. They don't like the well-known ones (WoW, FFXI, Ragnarok Online, etc.) and feel that PSU shouldn't be classed with the games they don't like. There's nothing in the term MMO, nor the term RPG, that specifies what kind of combat system the game has to use.

Lack of persistent world Neither do the terms MMO nor RPG denote the requirement that there be a persistent world.

If the community (and by community I mean videogame community, not this message board) decides to segregate games like PSU and Guild Wars to a different genre, then I will shrug and go along with it, since it really doesn't matter (though I will maintain that it was unnecessary).

Edit: Enix... did you make that edit to the Wikipedia's CORPG page? In any case... LOL. I find that highly humorous.

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-18 21:18 ]

EnixBelmont

Jul 18, 2006, 11:19 PM

No, I didn't edit it. Although I so, so would have XD

Polly

Jul 19, 2006, 12:22 AM

Who fucking cares what it's called? WHY does this keep coming up? WHY is it such an issue? I don't get why people care what it's classified as. I don't get why there's such a ridiculous amount of effort going into this argument xD

I can't think of one reason why people would care or want to argue about it as much as people do here.

"Online Game Featuring Offline Elements"

OGFOE

There ya go.

EtherForce

Jul 19, 2006, 12:26 AM

Well, there are also other elements missing from PSU commonly found in MMO's, what about raids with over twenty people working together to kill the same mob? What about people arguing over camp sites? What about boss mobs which take a week to respawn? I'm afraid you can't find these sorts of things in an all-instanced online game.

I can't think of one reason why people would care or want to argue about it as much as people do here.
Cause engaging in meaningless debates is fun! Not to mention it can help increase one's 'smarts,' heh heh.

[ This Message was edited by: EtherForce on 2006-07-18 22:31 ]

Carlo210

Jul 19, 2006, 12:37 AM

Heh. PSO is an action game too. It's also a racing game since you 'race' to enemies to hit them first with your sword. It's also a strategy game ebcause you think when playing it. It's also a family game because it has neon colors in it. It's also an adventure game because you move from one square foot of landscape to another quare foot of landscape.

Lines are drawn for reasons. PSO may be MAssive, Multiplayer, and Online, but, with that reasoning, it is also an Aciton game, a racing game, and so forth. As you can see, that just isn't right.
Halo 2 could also an MMO. Sure, the lobby may not be visual, but they contain hundreds of players.
Mario 64 is a RPG game too because you play a role. Sound right? Doesn't to me.
Lines are drawn to categorise. These categories have been used for many years without too much confusion. When enough games (or a good enough game) comes out that challenges the current genree system, a new category is created. A hybrid, if you wish.
Lets see what PSU is. Hmm.. It is part MMORPG (a compound category - MMO and RPG), and part action. The ACTION is derived from games such as Doom, Contra, and so forth. A reasonably static singleplayer world where reflexes and/or hand skill is used to complete tasks. Sure, Diddy kong racing may fit in, but history's events have moulded our genre system much as it has to other things.
PSU is a hybrid. 'Cooperative Online' and 'RPG' are fitting in every case, but PSU has a reasonable focus on certain MMO features. Cooperative/Competitive Online Semi-Massive Multiplayer Online(2) Role Playing Game!
Yes! It's a Cosmmo Rpg!

By Samuel L. Jackson, I think I've got it!

Spread the word.

[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2006-07-18 22:58 ]

Ether

Jul 19, 2006, 12:45 AM

The saddest part is that while you guys are joking, wikipedia actually has stuff like that

"GunZ the Duel, also known as GunZ, is a Third-Person Multiplayer Online Shooting/Role Playing Game (MOSRPG)"

"BBMMORPG: Browser Based Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games are MMORPGs played through an internet browse"

PSO: "Online Hack and slash RPG"

I think its clear no one knows how to catagorize any of these games anymore

Carlo210

Jul 19, 2006, 12:58 AM

To me, PSU is and always will be a Cosmmo rpg.

EnixBelmont

Jul 19, 2006, 01:21 AM

......Cake-oriented RPG for the win.

Carlo210

Jul 19, 2006, 01:22 AM

Did you say cake? I'm in!

*lost*

Jife_Jifremok

Jul 19, 2006, 02:13 AM

On 2006-07-18 22:45, Ether wrote:
The saddest part is that while you guys are joking, wikipedia actually has stuff like that

"GunZ the Duel, also known as GunZ, is a Third-Person Multiplayer Online Shooting/Role Playing Game (MOSRPG)"

"BBMMORPG: Browser Based Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games are MMORPGs played through an internet browse"

PSO: "Online Hack and slash RPG"

I think its clear no one knows how to catagorize any of these games anymore

Those individualized made-up categories explain the gameplay style far better than simply lumping the games in with EverQuest and Guild Wars by calling it "MMORPG". We're not in a cut-and-paste gaming world anymore where everything fits neatly into existing genres or subgenres. There are plenty of games that are easily classified, but there are plenty that need their own category just for themselves just so people don't dismiss games like Monster Hunter and PSU from hearing that they're MMORPGs and thinking that they play like EverQuest or something.

Kyuu

Jul 19, 2006, 02:58 AM

On 2006-07-19 00:13, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

Those individualized made-up categories explain the gameplay style far better than simply lumping the games in with EverQuest and Guild Wars by calling it "MMORPG". We're not in a cut-and-paste gaming world anymore where everything fits neatly into existing genres or subgenres. There are plenty of games that are easily classified, but there are plenty that need their own category just for themselves just so people don't dismiss games like Monster Hunter and PSU from hearing that they're MMORPGs and thinking that they play like EverQuest or something.

*shrug* Well if that's the way you want to look at it, then you have a point. However, anyone who dismisses a game simply because of the genre it's classified under is the sort of closed-minded fool I'd rather not have playing a game where I might have the misfortune to meet him/her anyway.

Edit: And my edit was in the double post, which I didn't realize until too late. ~_~ Anyway, no matter how you look at it, dismissing anything because of the genre it belongs to is shallow, at best. It's not about not having heard/played everything in a genre and not making a general statement like "I dislike rap," but rather instantly deciding you won't even listen to any song that is under a genre you generally dislike before making a decision about it.

I also don't believe that new genres should have to be invented just to please closed-minded people like that. Genres are supposed to be very general and not concerned with specifics.

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-19 07:51 ]

Kyuu

Jul 19, 2006, 03:03 AM

Well now that's odd. No idea how I double posted, and I can't seem to delete it. -_-

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-19 07:42 ]

Carlo210

Jul 19, 2006, 03:31 AM

That's a whole different arguement. Genres exist for a reason. I don't like rap. If somewhere out there are some rap songs I may like, that's fine, but I'm not going to hold back on saying 'I don't like rap' just because I haven't 'heard them all'.

Let's not get started. Damn, too late.

Phaze37

Jul 19, 2006, 05:25 AM

Online Action RPG.

It doesn't have a full world like a true MMORPG does, so I don't consider it an MMORPG.
Most of the time I just refer to it as an Online RPG, but the action element makes the gameplay different enough from ordinary Online RPGs like Guild Wars to warrant it's own subgenre. I haven't played Monster Hunter but from what little I've heard it sounds like it belongs in the Online Action RPG subgenre as well.

Garroway

Jul 19, 2006, 12:07 PM

On 2006-07-19 00:13, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2006-07-18 22:45, Ether wrote:
The saddest part is that while you guys are joking, wikipedia actually has stuff like that

"GunZ the Duel, also known as GunZ, is a Third-Person Multiplayer Online Shooting/Role Playing Game (MOSRPG)"

"BBMMORPG: Browser Based Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games are MMORPGs played through an internet browse"

PSO: "Online Hack and slash RPG"

I think its clear no one knows how to catagorize any of these games anymore

Those individualized made-up categories explain the gameplay style far better than simply lumping the games in with EverQuest and Guild Wars by calling it "MMORPG". We're not in a cut-and-paste gaming world anymore where everything fits neatly into existing genres or subgenres. There are plenty of games that are easily classified, but there are plenty that need their own category just for themselves just so people don't dismiss games like Monster Hunter and PSU from hearing that they're MMORPGs and thinking that they play like EverQuest or something.

Holy crap. Thanks for clearing this up for me. Until now I always thought that Monster Hunter and Everquest were the same game due to genre confusion. Now I truly see the importance of every game being classified under their own genre so errors like this don't get repeated.

Jife_Jifremok

Jul 20, 2006, 12:00 AM

On 2006-07-19 00:58, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-07-19 00:13, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

Those individualized made-up categories explain the gameplay style far better than simply lumping the games in with EverQuest and Guild Wars by calling it "MMORPG". We're not in a cut-and-paste gaming world anymore where everything fits neatly into existing genres or subgenres. There are plenty of games that are easily classified, but there are plenty that need their own category just for themselves just so people don't dismiss games like Monster Hunter and PSU from hearing that they're MMORPGs and thinking that they play like EverQuest or something.

*shrug* Well if that's the way you want to look at it, then you have a point. However, anyone who dismisses a game simply because of the genre it's classified under is the sort of closed-minded fool I'd rather not have playing a game where I might have the misfortune to meet him/her anyway.

Edit: And my edit was in the double post, which I didn't realize until too late. ~_~ Anyway, no matter how you look at it, dismissing anything because of the genre it belongs to is shallow, at best. It's not about not having heard/played everything in a genre and not making a general statement like "I dislike rap," but rather instantly deciding you won't even listen to any song that is under a genre you generally dislike before making a decision about it.

I also don't believe that new genres should have to be invented just to please closed-minded people like that. Genres are supposed to be very general and not concerned with specifics.

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-07-19 07:51 ]

I understand what you mean about closed-minded foolishness. I used to look at games with a much more open mind, like maybe five or ten years ago. But now I've gotten pretty lazy, and I've found it a waste of time to bother looking deeply into every game. Usually all it takes is one or two questions at some forum (often already asked so I need only lurk) and then I know enough to stay away from it. (games that look interesting are exceptions)

Plus, there are many genres (such as FPS and sports) that I don't like enough that I'd want more than one series in the genre unless it's significantly different and satisfying. And there are genres (mainly FPS and RPG)in which I only like some of their elements, and not their whole games.

So when I start seeing individualized categories like "Car Combat MMORPG" or "First Person Adventure", I start to get intrigued since I see elements getting thrown together that normally aren't, so I can at least see if this something different is actually fun.

By the way, there are games that seem (to me)like a royal pain in the ass to categorize by traditional means. What would you categorize the following games...

Culdcept, a game that melds Monopoly with Collecticle Card Games (CCGs). Has strat-RPG elements too. Is it a card game or a board game?
Katamari Damacy, nuff said.
Lost Kingdoms, a CCG Adventure game. Oops, I hybrid-genre'd it. But hey, that made it nice and easy to tell the BASICS, not the specifics, of what the game is.
Mister Mosquito, where you fly around and suck human blood.