NO LEVEL GAPS and no EXP decrease! Hooray!!!! ^_^

[Saner]

ya I really hated that in games like FF11, if a party member is like 2-3+ level difference from the rest, everyone ended up getting awful exp.

this led to fewer party member options for recruitment/joining, etc. and prevented like lv.10 players from doing well with lv. 14 and lv. 15 party members.

and level gaps resulted in EVEN MORE TIME spent searching for party members!! especially when like existing members have to leave and you wanna replace them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/watermelon.gif



but ya then again we don't know the full scoop for this game's level requirements, if any.
and if level affects the exp the rest of the party receives.

it is said the Mission system might have later requirements for certain levels. or maybe that's just to redo those missions at higher ranks?

maybe missions have no level requirements. but higher ranks might have special requirements, whether exp level or party member limit. because I think I saw a party member limit in some mission description.

[PandaMasterX4]

Level gaps sucked. It was retarded that if someone was 3lvls too high you got nurfed like none other. In a game like FFXI that's a HUGE problem. I think there should be a minor penelty like PSO had, but nothing extreme like FFXI. Of course now it's finally up to the people to get others around their level to do harder missions instead of making it manditory.

[Saner]

ya level gaps destroyed the community.

or more accurately, split the community into strict 'ranks' everyone was forced to follow or end up spending 5x more time leveling up.


level gaps were so horrible, perhaps even more so than exp losses/deleveling.

you run the player search list: lv. 20, lv. 55, lv. 70, lv. 63, but no one that's lv. 26 or 27. and you don't find any for hours.
A TOTAL NIGHTMARE AND WASTE OF TIME. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cheese.gif

[Roffkaiser]

I think it would be nice if you just got a percentage of experiance depending on how much damage you did, IE do a fourth of the damage you get a fourth of the exp. That is probably the most balanced way to solve the issue.

[JAR]

Definitly happy about no exp loss. I remember when my friend Jay told me about exp loss in FFXI and it totally turned me off from the game, a punishment for dying - NO THANKS!

[PandaMasterX4]

I was a fan of XP loss mainly because every reward should have a downside. It makes achieving that so much sweeter and made you care more about your preformance. That was actually what turned me away from WoW where there was no penelty or reward for just about anything you did.

In FFXI, XP loss in parties was horrible as hell. You could randomly get stuck in a crap party and lose more xp than you gained. That's pretty much why I made a static party and we were able to get anywhere between 14000 - 24000 an hour.

The average party was 4000-6000 an hour.

I think games need at least some kind of penelty than no penelty at all. PSO had meseta loss, but then again, it wasn't that important in the game later on.

[Sotaka]

I had someone ten levels below me...

He recieved maybe... 30 exp less? I don't remember the exact numbers, but considering we were duo'ing for fun, it wasn't so horrible.

The reason level gaps suck is because the lower-levels won't be as much use unless they're a WHM or other supportive-type job. Melee's already have a hard time hitting because of over-hunting.

[Saner]

for fun is one thing, http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_salad.gif

but when people camp or whatever with the intention of leveling, a 10 level difference, even a 4 level difference would break things apart with those kind of rules. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


"I'm gonna go party for exp now."

"I wanna come too."

"you are too low level, hang with people around your level"

"but there aren't any around right now. and my power leveler just left."

"too bad. cya."

*and so, little Biscuit waits hours and hours seeking a party their levels, then realizes its all a waste of time and quits.*


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-08-03 15:52 ]</font>

[PandaMasterX4]

That's when you solo, hunt for money or rare items http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Ryna]

On 2006-08-03 13:53, Saner wrote:
ya I really hated that in games like FF11, if a party member is like 2-3+ level difference from the rest, everyone ended up getting awful exp.

this led to fewer party member options for recruitment/joining, etc. and prevented like lv.10 players from doing well with lv. 14 and lv. 15 party members.


I think you'll see this to some extent on PSU. If I remember correctly, every mission above Level C had some sort of level requirement. The more difficult the area, the higher the level requirement was. Everyone in your party had to meet the requirement to play the area on a particular difficulty.

Even though you may not lose EXP anymore, there are serious penalties for dying. You'll receive only a small fraction of the final reward for a quest if someone in the party dies.

[Lyrise]

it is said the Mission system might have later requirements for certain levels. or maybe that's just to redo those missions at higher ranks?

maybe missions have no level requirements. but higher ranks might have special requirements, whether exp level or party member limit. because I think I saw a party member limit in some mission description.

This game's level caps? To create a party, none. To travel to a specific area? Depends where you are, and what difficulty you choose (some areas have level requirements, even at C), so it's not just for higher ranking missions. Finally, yes, on the subject that some missions do have party size limitations, those depend on the mission, not it's difficulty.

[Saner]

thanks for info! but I think like say Level C requires players that are no less than lv.50.

at least anyone higher than that, even level 80 players, can play with them in that Level C mission, right? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

level requirements in PSU appear to be tied around advanced missions rather than tied around how much exp a party receives. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



oh ya those penalities don't sound so bad. ya mission rewards give ranks and money and stuff like that.

but at least time will not be spent recuperating lost exp or levels. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Saner]

On 2006-08-03 16:29, Lyrise wrote:

it is said the Mission system might have later requirements for certain levels. or maybe that's just to redo those missions at higher ranks?

maybe missions have no level requirements. but higher ranks might have special requirements, whether exp level or party member limit. because I think I saw a party member limit in some mission description.

This game's level caps? To create a party, none. To travel to a specific area? Depends where you are, and what difficulty you choose (some areas have level requirements, even at C), so it's not just for higher ranking missions. Finally, yes, on the subject that some missions do have party size limitations, those depend on the mission, not it's difficulty.



I wonder if the party size special requirements are involved with the Super Vehicle Missions?

maybe so, because the Tank can only carry like 3-4 players I think.

but we did see the trailer online video of 6 players online riding those hover jet skis.

but ya this sure is an improvement over past formulas. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


I mean like, anyone glad their weapon and money are not dropped when they get whomped and seeing red? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[MAGNUShunter]

On 2006-08-03 16:25, Ryna wrote:

If I remember correctly, every mission above Level C had some sort of level requirement. The more difficult the area, the higher the level requirement was. Everyone in your party had to meet the requirement to play the area on a particular difficulty.

Even though you may not lose EXP anymore, there are serious penalties for dying. You'll receive only a small fraction of the final reward for a quest if someone in the party dies.



I am very glad for this and I agree with Pandamasterx4.
I think it makes what you accomplish that much more valuable and worthwhile.

[Ryna]

On 2006-08-03 16:30, Saner wrote:
oh ya those penalities don't sound so bad. ya mission rewards give ranks and money and stuff like that.

but at least time will not be spent recuperating lost exp or levels. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif


Considering that missions are the only way you can get job skill points and will probably be your primary means of gathering meseta, I really don't want to play with an "awful" player that is constantly dying. My time is valuable. I don't want to lose out on job advancement and meseta because of someone like that. The point is to have fun, but losing a well-earned reward is frustrating if you experience it several times in a row.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2006-08-03 17:00 ]</font>

[Saner]

well ya but maybe farther down the road, a few K.O.s can't be helped sometimes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[MAGNUShunter]

Considering K.O.'s, I'm prefer the "No-Tolerance" school of thought.
:{



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MAGNUShunter on 2006-08-03 17:19 ]</font>

[RedSummers]

I liked the Lvl'n system for the dot hack games, you always needed 1000 exp to lvl, it was like kill a lvl 1 get 50 exp, then when your lvl 2 you get 20 or something ext for the same guy, but then theres another bad guy who gives you 50+ exp, but you always needed to get up to 1000. and when in a party, it could be a lvl 1 and 2 guy party'n and the lvl one and 2 guy kills the bad guy, the lvl one would get 50 exp and the lvl 2 guy would get 20, but it wouldnt matter if you where in a party anyway cuz thats how much exp you where gunna get with or with out the party members!

and dem are me thoughts

-Jack RedSummers

[Saner]

On 2006-08-03 17:21, RedSummers wrote:
I liked the Lvl'n system for the dot hack games, you always needed 1000 exp to lvl, it was like kill a lvl 1 get 50 exp, then when your lvl 2 you get 20 or something ext for the same guy, but then theres another bad guy who gives you 50+ exp, but you always needed to get up to 1000. and when in a party, it could be a lvl 1 and 2 guy party'n and the lvl one and 2 guy kills the bad guy, the lvl one would get 50 exp and the lvl 2 guy would get 20, but it wouldnt matter if you where in a party anyway cuz thats how much exp you where gunna get with or with out the party members!

and dem are me thoughts

-Jack RedSummers



ya! Suikoden II was like that too! it never took longer to level the higher your level was. I liked that exp system.

[MAGNUShunter]

Great system.

And I was kidding Saner. I wouldn't boot anyone for K.O.ing
I would give them at least three strikes before blacklisting thier sorry butt! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Saner]

lol oh http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cone.gif

but what if they commit a foul, would that still count as a strike?


and can they redeem themselves with a home run? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[RedSummers]

On 2006-08-03 17:48, MAGNUShunter wrote:
Great system.

And I was kidding Saner. I wouldn't boot anyone for K.O.ing
I would give them at least three strikes before blacklisting thier sorry butt! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif



I played FFXI and if some one was to get killed more then 3 times, they be out 2, cuz sometihng isnt right with that party/that player.

they could find new friends and get more, so by kicking em out, im helping them by getting them more friends!
sry for coming in on your convo btw lol

-Jack RedSummers

[Fleece]

Never blame the tank for dying, blame the mages for not healing properly and if a ranger dies its either unlucky on their part, they got caught off gaurd or they were doing something they shouldnt have been doing, such as meleeing.

I'll sooner kick a rubbish force out the party than the guy who keeps dying due to not being healed while tanking.

[MAGNUShunter]

On 2006-08-03 17:59, Saner wrote:
lol oh http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cone.gif

but what if they commit a foul, would that still count as a strike?


and can they redeem themselves with a home run? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



NO.
Thier name goes to the sticky titled "LOOSERS" that Ryna would create.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DevilsArm]

in Ragnarok the party lvl gap was everyone had to be within 10 levels of each other in order to even share experience and items. i hope it is somewhat like that in PSU. i want it so that if you die you lose some exp though because then it gives determination not to die.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DevilsArm on 2006-08-03 19:45 ]</font>

[Fleece]

Level referenced exp is the stupidest idea in ANY MMO, some people play at different times and for different amounts of time at each play meaning if you meet them once and you become friends that say they miss a few sessions of play your then a higher level and either:

A) You cant play with them again

B) you have to wait until they catch up to your level which could be weeks

Things like this just result in people alienating from each other and people tend to just use each other for their own means. It's just like politics all over again.

[physic]

truth is people would do it anyhow. People who are 10 levels lower than you afe merely leeches in a tough fight in those games. The truth is the exp penalty isnt that harsh in FF you only suffer like -5 per level difference per monster. maybe 10 the difference is that adds up. And although you are only getting say 10-20 lower than the other person in the crew per kill, if you were in a party your level doing the same monster you would get much more. Of course your more likely to die.
fact is the real reason people didnt take low levels around was not because they lost exp, but because they took up a valuable space in the tema slot and were often useless. they get resisted, cant hit the target or bearly do damage. the only job that was somehwat able to do its job while being very lower level was whm, and even then the dif is noticable. Point is dont expect everyone to want to run with a lower level dude in this game, especially when it increases chance of death and time taken to complete a mission. Power leveler types will prolly still be trying to have the best team possible.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-08-03 17:04, Saner wrote:
well ya but maybe farther down the road, a few K.O.s can't be helped sometimes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



Actually, it can be. Further down the road, you're (rich enough/smart enough) to carry 3 scape dolls with you at all times (that's the max). Scape dolls remove the death penalty.

Have other players transfer as necessary. But really, if you manage to die 4 times in a given mission, you most likely have no place in being there in the first place.

[Inazuma]

scape dolls are 3 max? im sure i had like 6 on me at one time. maybe the max is 10?

[doulin35]

I am an avid FF fan, but.. FFXI really blew. I really hope that PSU dosn't have any of that weird stuff in it like FF11 does.
Especially level gaps. I recall my friend playing WoW and there is some system in place where if you are a certian level, there is almost no way you can defeat a certian environment monster or other players. and I believe that it is no more than a few levels if i'm not mistaken.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: doulin35 on 2006-08-03 23:06 ]</font>

[doulin35]

Well... if there are Telepipes there is no big deal, really, when your low telepipe outta there and buy some more.. Although this obviously won't work on bosses., and get pretty heavy on your Meseta... Can you purchase scape dolls in PSU?

[Inazuma]

you could buy em from other players shops but im sure they would be very expensive.

[Ether]

According to psupedia scape doll carrying limit it 10

http://psupedia.org/index.php?title=Recovery_Items

[Lyrise]

I stand corrected. I got it mixed up with the number you can make maximum on one board. But my original point still stands. If you die too much in one mission, scape or not, you shouldn;t even be there.

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-03 19:23, Fleece wrote:
Never blame the tank for dying, blame the mages for not healing properly and if a ranger dies its either unlucky on their part, they got caught off gaurd or they were doing something they shouldnt have been doing, such as meleeing.

I'll sooner kick a rubbish force out the party than the guy who keeps dying due to not being healed while tanking.



I have the right to blame the tank. Being a lvl 75 thf and if I get more hate, then you're doing a poor job. If your equipment sucks, you're doing a poor job. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE has to contribute equally to a party no matter what game. If the tank does bad it's his fault. If the healer doesn't do a good enough job casting, they're doing a poor job. If melee miss like none other, GTFO.

If people don't know their jobs, they shouldn't be playing the game to begin with.[b]

[Jife_Jifremok]

I'll agree with all that, but I think tanks that don't have a constant healing backup should try taking less damage to stay alive.

[Killuminati]

This is why I LOVE PSO over FFXI anyday. Anyone who disagrees with this concept of gaming you have too much time on your hands. i don't like experiencing for hours and loosing my exp. I also don't like searching for hours for people who are in my level range just to play the game. FFXI had to be one of the suckiest games ever made and with contunied updates that SE did/does every month the game got worse and litterly drove me away. After the ranger nerf I was done with that game.

[Killuminati]

On 2006-08-03 23:58, PandaMasterX4 wrote:


On 2006-08-03 19:23, Fleece wrote:
Never blame the tank for dying, blame the mages for not healing properly and if a ranger dies its either unlucky on their part, they got caught off gaurd or they were doing something they shouldnt have been doing, such as meleeing.

I'll sooner kick a rubbish force out the party than the guy who keeps dying due to not being healed while tanking.



I have the right to blame the tank. Being a lvl 75 thf and if I get more hate, then you're doing a poor job. If your equipment sucks, you're doing a poor job. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE has to contribute equally to a party no matter what game. If the tank does bad it's his fault. If the healer doesn't do a good enough job casting, they're doing a poor job. If melee miss like none other, GTFO.

If people don't know their jobs, they shouldn't be playing the game to begin with.[b]


This is just another reason why i perfer PSO mainly because your really not depending on anyone to keep you alive or can't blame anyone for your death if you die.(in most situations)

[Tystys]

Play PSO. It doesn't have a level gap either.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-08-03 14:07, Roffkaiser wrote:
I think it would be nice if you just got a percentage of experiance depending on how much damage you did, IE do a fourth of the damage you get a fourth of the exp. That is probably the most balanced way to solve the issue.



At first, it makes sense, but only for hunter classes. Support classes like Rangers and Forces need their fair share of the exp. for keeping enemies off the hunter's backs and/or healing them constantly. Exp. distribution isn't such an easy/fair thing to come up with.

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-04 02:25, Killuminati wrote:

This is just another reason why i perfer PSO mainly because your really not depending on anyone to keep you alive or can't blame anyone for your death if you die.(in most situations)



I agree completely with that, but the reason to me why PSO was inferior was due to it only being 4 tiny dungeons. I don't agree with FFXI having to spend hours on end looking for a party and then losing xp, but I think there should be an xp loss for easier games. Look at WoW for craps sake. It's the MMO for newbies because there are no penelties at all.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-08-03 19:23, Fleece wrote:
Never blame the tank for dying, blame the mages for not healing properly and if a ranger dies its either unlucky on their part, they got caught off gaurd or they were doing something they shouldnt have been doing, such as meleeing.

I'll sooner kick a rubbish force out the party than the guy who keeps dying due to not being healed while tanking.



I say it all depends on ppl's play style. I wouldn't straight out put the blame on the forces. I'd really hate it if my FO class automatically dictates me as a healer as my primary skill. Unlike other RPG's, PSO/PSU meshes all 3 general type of magic users into one class (healer, stat support, and the nukes).
For those hunter tanks who automatically assumes that a FO = healer, they shouldn't (IMO anyways).

As a compromise, for those tanks out there who wants non healing FO's (as their primary skill) to heal more often, tanks should also pull out of melee a bit every so often and temperarily use guns till the FO could switch to their healing canes and heal you within their range.
(my 2 cents)

[Fleece]

On 2006-08-04 09:25, chibiLegolas wrote:


On 2006-08-03 19:23, Fleece wrote:
Never blame the tank for dying, blame the mages for not healing properly and if a ranger dies its either unlucky on their part, they got caught off gaurd or they were doing something they shouldnt have been doing, such as meleeing.

I'll sooner kick a rubbish force out the party than the guy who keeps dying due to not being healed while tanking.



I say it all depends on ppl's play style. I wouldn't straight out put the blame on the forces. I'd really hate it if my FO class automatically dictates me as a healer as my primary skill. Unlike other RPG's, PSO/PSU meshes all 3 general type of magic users into one class (healer, stat support, and the nukes).
For those hunter tanks who automatically assumes that a FO = healer, they shouldn't (IMO anyways).

As a compromise, for those tanks out there who wants non healing FO's (as their primary skill) to heal more often, tanks should also pull out of melee a bit every so often and temperarily use guns till the FO could switch to their healing canes and heal you within their range.
(my 2 cents)



Don't get me wrong i completely agree with you but on any MMO i have played (and ive played a lot) Ive had forces/mages who saw the tank dying and could even heal the guy and in most cases the tank had run in front of the mage to stop the guy getting killed and the mage stood there and continued spamming attack magic instead of healing. After the Tank had died he stood there insulting the tank saying he was a moron for dying and he shouldnt of jumped in the way etc, etc.

In most MMO's self sacrifice is always worth it, you always get to see who the morons are.

That is why ill mostly keep a tank who self sacrifices than a self centered mage/force who didnt heal because "It wasnt his/her job" when they couldve easily coped with healing the tank but just didnt stop to think.

There should be a common sense/intelligence test before ANYONE picks a Mage/Force it requires the most thinking and most self sacrifice of any job out there and if people arnt prepared to be the bitch occasionally and run round making sure everyone is OK then they should stick to something simple, like jumping in the way of bad guys and taking damage.


BTW I mostly play a tank. Im just too lazy to be a Force this is why i know what and who makes a good force.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-08-04 14:39, Fleece wrote:
in most cases the tank had run in front of the mage to stop the guy getting killed and the mage stood there and continued spamming attack magic instead of healing. After the Tank had died he stood there insulting the tank saying he was a moron for dying and he shouldnt of jumped in the way etc, etc.

There should be a common sense/intelligence test before ANYONE picks a Mage/Force it requires the most thinking and most self sacrifice of any job out there and if people arnt prepared to be the bitch occasionally and run round making sure everyone is OK then they should stick to something simple, like jumping in the way of bad guys and taking damage.


BTW I mostly play a tank. Im just too lazy to be a Force this is why i know what and who makes a good force.



Wow. Now that's just poor edicate on the mage/force's part. Not healing a party member that's hurt right in front of you?
*shakes head in disgust*
What I expect from my party members is to try and make an effort to get within my range for my healing when they need it & I'll try 'n meet them half way. To expect all forces to hectically run around to heal all the time is a bit much (unless it's a challenging fight).

But hey, with a broad level cap in place on PSU, there should be a nice amount of varied party members who are able to join in each team. And with the increased party max, I can finally be in a party with 2 different play style of forces and not worry too much on being the sole healing class option.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[therealAERO]

Trust me if you value your Job Rank at all you won't want to die EVER in PSU. It sucks so much...
You work your ass off on a level, but than you die and when you get the end you get maybe 2 job skill points when you should get 10 or more. Thats enough to make you not be stupid, and take things a little more seriously. Unlike PSO.

[Inazuma]

aero is right on. also, since all deaths count for the entire party's mission reward, no matter who dies, it will negatively affect YOU.

the force who doesnt want to save his allies w/ resta, is basically letting himself die.

[Saner]

well that's a harsh way to put it.

at least mission rewards are not tied to raw experience points. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif