What was the death penalty?

[Sgt_Shligger]

Like was there a penalty if you died? (XP debt, XP loss, etc..)

[RedSummers]

lol the death penalty.. that sounds nice... I cant tell you, cuz im not sure, but I'll share my thoughts, I think there should be a loss of Xp and money. that way, you work jsut that much more harder and you go more out knowing that if you fail, its not going to be nothing.
me my self, I find that if I die, and dont loss anything, I still Find that as a penalty, cuz I no I failed my self so next time i give it 107%! thats all byeeeee!

-Jack RedSummers

[DevilsArm]

hmm i think there should be a xp loss but there shouldnt be a money loss unless money ends up with everyone overly rich and having no use for it like in pso

[Earthsunderer]

As can be read on point 3.39 on the FAQ to PSU on this board, game deaths result in a lowered mission ranking after finishing the mission.

The lower the rank, the less reward you receive.

[RedSummers]

On 2006-08-03 19:47, Earthsunderer wrote:
As can be read on point 3.39 on the FAQ to PSU on this board, game deaths result in a lowered mission ranking after finishing the mission.

The lower the rank, the less reward you receive.



mmhh, I like that idea. cuz if i wanted some one to do something for me, and they where to die while doing it (and some how come back to life? lol) then I be like, you suck, you only get half the money for getting killed on the job!

[DarK-SuN]

There's a death penalty, just not EXP or money loss as we're used to.
It's, as Earthsunderer said, a heavily lowered mission rank (it gets even worse if you die often, but it's already bad as it is), which in turn affects the "job experience" you get, which is BAD if you wanna level up your skills, increase your job stats (which are seperate from your regular "physical stats") and weapons you're able to equip.

So it's good on one side (no regular EXP loss) but you get a lot less (and sometimes even ZERO) job EXP, making it bad on the other side.

[Earthsunderer]

As far as I have read, mission rewards also include monetary dispensation.

Meaning that finishing a mission is the standart way to earn meseta.

So the more you die in a mission, the less meseta you will earn.

And according to the beta testers, things were quite expensive, and money was not that abundant.

[PALRAPPYS]

Wait, so infinite revives? Nah, there's still Moon Atomizers and new is the Cosmo Atomizers, so if no one will revive you, you'll get sent back somewhere by pressing a YES or something? But still you'd probably lose stuff anyways.

[Nisshoku]

Actually, if there is no one to revive you, you get sent back to the area you were in before you started the game with friends; essentially, the 'main lobby'.

[PALRAPPYS]

Oh, but you CAN go back into the area with the same amount of defeated enemies, opened boxes, etc. etc.?

[DarK-SuN]

That's correct.

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-03 19:53, DarK-SuN wrote:
There's a death penalty, just not EXP or money loss as we're used to.
It's, as Earthsunderer said, a heavily lowered mission rank (it gets even worse if you die often, but it's already bad as it is), which in turn affects the "job experience" you get, which is BAD if you wanna level up your skills, increase your job stats (which are seperate from your regular "physical stats") and weapons you're able to equip.

So it's good on one side (no regular EXP loss) but you get a lot less (and sometimes even ZERO) job EXP, making it bad on the other side.




I at least like that there is some form of penelty. WoW was just proof that the game was made for people who sucked at MMOs

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-04 00:01, PandaMasterX4 wrote:

I at least like that there is some form of penelty. WoW was just proof that the game was made for people who sucked at MMOs

Personally, I'd take a small exp loss to teleport straight back to my body over the traveling from the graveyard back to your body in WoW. Getting back your exp means killing monsters, which is fun. Just watching your ghost run for a few minutes, not fun.

Oh, and how does anyone "suck" at MMOs? I had a lot of fun with WoW (before I got horridly bored with it), but WoW and other EQ-esque games are not the most skill-heavy games around. Mostly, whoever had the best macroes was deemed the most "skilled."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-08-04 01:17 ]</font>

[l3iohazard]

as long as we dont lose items when we die i dont really care :s i played runescape for a while and omg you have no idea how depressing it is to lose 20Million in items and cash in 10 secounds when u worked 1 year+ on makeing that...

[Tystys]

Meh, that pretty much takes away most of the challenge. I remember people not going to fight Falz because they didn'twant to lose EXP from third form....

Good times...

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-04 01:15, Kyuu wrote:
Personally, I'd take a small exp loss to teleport straight back to my body over the traveling from the graveyard back to your body in WoW. Getting back your exp means killing monsters, which is fun. Just watching your ghost run for a few minutes, not fun.

Oh, and how does anyone "suck" at MMOs? I had a lot of fun with WoW (before I got horridly bored with it), but WoW and other EQ-esque games are not the most skill-heavy games around. Mostly, whoever had the best macroes was deemed the most "skilled."




Killing monster is fun which is why I'm pro xp loss. The other reason I'm pro xp loss is just because it gets people to take their life a little more seriously. A lot of people from FFXI went to WoW because it was too difficult and they didn't know how to do their job properly. WoW was simply training wheels for MMOs. I liked it for the first few weeks I played WoW, but then i was like... this is TOO easy.

[PrinceRhys]

XP loss does make one take death more seriously in a game. However, I played a bit of FFXI, and I have to say I'd prefer not to have XP loss. One of the fun things about games is that you can take risks you wouldn't normally take in real life. In FF, I was reluctant to explore because doing so would get me killed and thus set me back XP which can be hard to get, considering the whole pary situation in the game. At least the way it is now, I can try a mission and if it is too hard or I die a couple times (not that I will or anything), I don't have to worry about ending up worse off then when I started.

[maoZedong]

DEAD MAN WALKING!...*clank* DEAD MAN WALKING!...*clank*

[EtherForce]

Hmm, losing mission rank points instead of exp sounds like a good idea imo. Instead of losing exp and taking steps backwards you've gotta stay alive in order to go forward. The penalty of dying in online games and even some single player games has always been very a controversial issue.

[Numnuttz]

i agree with a lot of people here, the FF 11 xp system was one of the worst features of the game. Just trying to get a xp was the worst but losing xp when you died was horrible. that was one of the key reasons why i decided to quit and the fact i found out PSU was comming out played a huge role as well. But back to the main topic, i too am looking forward to the new way PSU will handle death. It doesnt make death seem like a bad thing at all when compared to other games.

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-04 09:59, PrinceRhys wrote:
XP loss does make one take death more seriously in a game. However, I played a bit of FFXI, and I have to say I'd prefer not to have XP loss. One of the fun things about games is that you can take risks you wouldn't normally take in real life. In FF, I was reluctant to explore because doing so would get me killed and thus set me back XP which can be hard to get, considering the whole pary situation in the game. At least the way it is now, I can try a mission and if it is too hard or I die a couple times (not that I will or anything), I don't have to worry about ending up worse off then when I started.



I'd have to disagree with that. People who were aware of the penelty of death would take more precautions and be well prepared before going somewhere. I explored just about every part of that game and have died many times in missions but I wasn't as butt hurt as the majority of people were mainly because I was a damn good player in that game and had a reputation to get picked up by only the best or assemble the best PT.

If you know things aggro to sight, you simply avoid in huge spaces or use prism powders to go invis. I didn't like the exp idea in FFXI with the level gap. I hated that tremendously but FF made you feel like what you earned or accomplished was more cherishable than most other games did.

What I look foward about PSU is that, you can solo a lot but you will also need PTs for a lot of missions. In FFXI you pretty much need a party for everything and anything. This is the advantage I see that PSU has. My arguement is pretty much stating that games NEED a penelty for death, otherwise you're gonna be stuck with a higher percentage of wreckless idiots.

[Nuclearranger]

A 1% total Exp loss wouldnt be to bad or a set number per Difficulty of area or somthing allthough at 199 in PSO you have around 80,000,000 and 1% of that..... is 800,000 OUCH could you imagine that..... that would suck lol so more like 10k on the hardest area. Or they could do it by level but they way they got it now is Not to harsh and its at least noticeable

[Kyuu]

I suppose I should have clarified that I'm not at all in favor of exp loss as a penalty for death. It's always been a poor idea; I was just saying that WoW's "penalty" of having to just run for minutes to get back to your body was sometimes worse, in my opinion.

I very much like the route that PSU has taken, with getting rated for your performance on missions. You have motivation to avoid getting killed, because dying will take a large chunk out of your reward at the end of the mission, but you don't have to deal with the frustration of losing experience that you worked for.

[Phaze37]

I have a question:

Is the rank at the end of the mission shared between the entire party, or does everyone get their own individual rank?

For example, if something comes up in real life that requires my immediate attention and I'm forced to abandon my game and let my character die, will my death affect everyone else's rank at the end of the mission, or just my own? If my death affects everyones rank, that would be really bad, because it's rare for me to be able to sit down at a game for long periods of time without distractions, and if I die I don't want to drag my teammates down with me.

[PrinceRhys]

On 2006-08-04 10:49, PandaMasterX4 wrote:

I'd have to disagree with that. People who were aware of the penelty of death would take more precautions and be well prepared before going somewhere. I explored just about every part of that game and have died many times in missions but I wasn't as butt hurt as the majority of people were mainly because I was a damn good player in that game and had a reputation to get picked up by only the best or assemble the best PT.

If you know things aggro to sight, you simply avoid in huge spaces or use prism powders to go invis. I didn't like the exp idea in FFXI with the level gap. I hated that tremendously but FF made you feel like what you earned or accomplished was more cherishable than most other games did.

What I look foward about PSU is that, you can solo a lot but you will also need PTs for a lot of missions. In FFXI you pretty much need a party for everything and anything. This is the advantage I see that PSU has. My arguement is pretty much stating that games NEED a penelty for death, otherwise you're gonna be stuck with a higher percentage of wreckless idiots.



You make good points, and I guess I am/was not that good of a character. Maybe I just didn't have the patience for the game. Maybe I suck. Either way, I like how it was put that dieing a lot doesn't take you backwards, but disallows you from moving forward. Remember, even if there are a lot of wreckless idiots, they won't be able to advance far in this system to begin with.

Needing a party for everything was brutal, but as others have said, it was because of the level gap. Even if we needed parties for everything in PSU, it wouldn't be nearly as bad because the number of players one can acceptably play with and still advanced is a lot larger. Plus you can change servers so you can play with the whole player base. No more waiting for an hour for that white mage around your level!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PrinceRhys on 2006-08-04 15:10 ]</font>

[PhotonCat]

PSU's death penalty is way better than having FF11's penalty... but... I rather there be none. Dieing is a big part of games, it shouldn't be somthing to get punished for.
Now when you go on Missions you will feel like you cannot afford to make any mistakes and cannot have fun. I like to play care-free, not worrying that somethings gonna pop out and kill me.
I rather they have WoWs penalty and just pay some money for repairs.

[DarK-SuN]

On 2006-08-04 14:37, Phaze37 wrote:
I have a question:

Is the rank at the end of the mission shared between the entire party, or does everyone get their own individual rank?

For example, if something comes up in real life that requires my immediate attention and I'm forced to abandon my game and let my character die, will my death affect everyone else's rank at the end of the mission, or just my own? If my death affects everyones rank, that would be really bad, because it's rare for me to be able to sit down at a game for long periods of time without distractions, and if I die I don't want to drag my teammates down with me.


As far as I remember from playing, it affects everyone, the team is ranked as a whole.
If one dies, then everyone loses something since it means someone might have messed up with the healing or protecting of the healer (depending on the situations).
But I'm not sure, I honestly don't remember it very well, so don't quote me on that.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-04 15:27, PhotonCat wrote:
PSU's death penalty is way better than having FF11's penalty... but... I rather there be none. Dieing is a big part of games, it shouldn't be somthing to get punished for.
Now when you go on Missions you will feel like you cannot afford to make any mistakes and cannot have fun. I like to play care-free, not worrying that somethings gonna pop out and kill me.
I rather they have WoWs penalty and just pay some money for repairs.

Well, fortunately (in my opinion), many people get more enjoyment when there's some sort of challenge to the game. If you can just die over and over with no negative results, that removes all challenge. And besides, if you want to play care-free and die over and over, then you can. You just won't get good rankings on your missions. Why should someone who plays willy-nilly and dies be rewarded the same as someone who plays skillfully and avoids dying?

I'm not sure about whether the ranks are individual or not, but in any case, if you have to suddenly get up in the middle of a mission, just leave the game. Problem solved.

[Phaze37]

it affects everyone, the team is ranked as a whole.

That kinda sucks. I guess I'll have to play seriously. I really liked how laid back PSO Ep1&2 was. Now there's going to be lots of pressure to play well, which can be tough sometimes at my house, people are always walking in and out of my room and in front of the TV and distracting me in other ways. Overall, I like PSU's penalty for death but making my death negatively affect my teammates means that one honest screw-up at a bad time could make 5 people very angry at me. I don't like that kind of pressure, I like to be able to just sit back and relax while I play, and I don't want people to complain that they don't want me in their party simply because I'm not a hardcore player with uber-rare items and I don't have the quest perfectly memorized.

Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not going to be bad at the game, but I'm not going to be a powergamer either.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-04 20:04, Phaze37 wrote:

That kinda sucks. I guess I'll have to play seriously. I really liked how laid back PSO Ep1&2 was. Now there's going to be lots of pressure to play well, which can be tough sometimes at my house, people are always walking in and out of my room and in front of the TV and distracting me in other ways. Overall, I like PSU's penalty for death but making my death negatively affect my teammates means that one honest screw-up at a bad time could make 5 people very angry at me. I don't like that kind of pressure, I like to be able to just sit back and relax while I play, and I don't want people to complain that they don't want me in their party simply because I'm not a hardcore player with uber-rare items and I don't have the quest perfectly memorized.

Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not going to be bad at the game, but I'm not going to be a powergamer either.

It's not that much pressure, honestly. Unless you're playing with a bunch of tight-wads (and if you are, you should find new people to play with anyway), they're not going to blow up at you just because you make them get an A-rank rather than an S from an accidental death. The only people I would ever get mad at are people who simply refuse to even try, and people who die on purpose to ruin it for other people. Luckily, both kinds of people can now be kicked by the party's leader, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Just relax and have fun. You should play seriously enough to try and do well and enjoy the challenge of getting a good ranking, but the most important thing is to remember to have fun. Once it becomes a job, you've defeated the whole point of a game. You might as well just sign up for more hours at work. At least you'll get paid to be miserable.

[Zinsian]

you start over from the beginning http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif hahahahaha good luck to everybody http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-04 23:20, Zinsian wrote:
you start over from the beginning http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif hahahahaha good luck to everybody http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

? Huh? You don't start over from the beginning if you die. o_0

[Sinue_v2]

For all that was wrong with EverQuest - it did have a good death penalty. I liked the idea of EXP Debt which slowed down advancement in the game until your debt was paid. It never stopped advancement - so you never faced with the tedious task of simply "getting back to where you were", but it encouraged players to stay alive and play more intelligently.

[Abaru-FP]

I think I already know the answer, but does the time spent in the mission effect rank?

I really hope not, being under the pressure of time would make partying too serious for my taste. It would be more enjoyable to be able to kill monsters under a relaxed condition, while still playing your best, than have to constantly scramble to get to the next room.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-08 10:58, Abaru-FP wrote:
I think I already know the answer, but does the time spent in the mission effect rank?

I really hope not, being under the pressure of time would make partying too serious for my taste. It would be more enjoyable to be able to kill monsters under a relaxed condition, while still playing your best, than have to constantly scramble to get to the next room.

Yes, the time it takes you to finish the mission affects your rank.

[Velocity_7]

Time does not affect your ranking. I've had a team not die, kill (almost) everything, then take a break by using the teleporter to return to the main lobby. Then we'd chat a bit, refill our PP, and then go back and finish the boss, and we'd get rank S (the highest you'll ever get).

The only factors that affect your ranking are:

1. Party member deaths
Notes: There was something that made it so that deaths did not count... I think it had something to do with Scape Dolls, but do not take my word for it. Please note that summoning NPCs and then having them die count towards deaths.

2. Mob spawn areas cleared (usually can be around 80~90% and can still get S rank)
Notes: So say there were 15 mob spawn areas in a mission, and you cleared 13 or 14 of them. That will still count towards S rank. A mob spawn area is defined as an area where enemies appear and block your way before the doors will open. You have to kill all enemies for a mob spawn area to be cleared.

3. if you were in the party from the beginning of the mission until the end, even if you didn't do anything.
Notes: This means that, out of all the mob spawn areas cleared in the mission, you must have been in the mission area along with the party during those clears. So say the team cleared 13 mob spawn areas; you had to have been inside the mission area (even if it's not the same area itself) to get the full ranking.


So although the first two factors affect overall team ranking, the third factor makes it an individual ranking, so you can't just join in on someone's game and get an S rank right away.

So for example, a team of 5 could get a mission done perfectly, and then a 6th member joined just as the party finished the game. Also in this example, out of the 5 players that got an S ranking, at the beginning of the game, 1 decided to go afk. The 5 members would get an S ranking (yes, even the one who went afk), but the 6th member was more likely to get D or F.

Note though that you can't simply leave a character afk on a party and think you'll go into a mission automatically; although yes, your screen will say "the party has entered a mission", you have to actually enter the mission area yourself, otherwise it does not count as being with the team from beginning to end.

Also something to note is that at the end of a mission you usually see results that tally up and show how much Job EXP and Meseta you got; if you do not see this report because you decided to have your character go afk, do not fret. The Job EXP and Meseta already entered your character automatically, but if you're not around you won't get to see how much you got.

Note that the "time" taken in terms of being with the party from beginning to end is not counted in minutes or seconds. It's counted as how many mob spawn areas were cleared while you were there with the party when they were cleared.

A final note is that, if you were in the team mission for half the time rather than just the last portion, you could potentially get some higher ranking, although it will not be as great as if you were the one who started the mission to begin with. Maybe we could call it some multiplier, where if it was supposed to be S, you had S x 0.5 = C, maybe? Just a thought, I never really calculated the actual values, but that's how it is.

DISCLAIMER: Although I've described the system as accurately as possible, it is only based on observations during the Windows Closed Beta, and is not representative of the final version. Needless to say though, it's a good place to start from in terms of figuring out what you need to do in order to win.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Velocity_7 on 2006-08-09 14:36 ]</font>

[PandaMasterX4]

Better question, Can you boot someone from your party at any given time?

[Velocity_7]

Only if you're the team leader.

[Arrow203]

niccceeeeeeeeeeeeee post ftw dude good info.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-08-04 10:49, PandaMasterX4 wrote:

I'd have to disagree with that. People who were aware of the penelty of death would take more precautions and be well prepared before going somewhere. I explored just about every part of that game and have died many times in missions but I wasn't as butt hurt as the majority of people were mainly because I was a damn good player in that game and had a reputation to get picked up by only the best or assemble the best PT.



That's still not a completely valid argument, at least to me. Although there's no direct penalty for death in this game, if you want to level effectively, and quickly, I'd imagine you'd have to keep your wits about you as you play in PSU as well. Not to mention that PSU is an entirely different game from FFXI.

FFXI's free roam environment made it possible to easily intertwine places with a mediocre to extreme difficulty (an example, for those who know, would be the dungeon containing a monster known as Serket. Staying on the first floor is fine, but if you fall through the floor, enemy levels jump by at least 20 to 30 levels, with Serket being a monster that can easily trample an unprepared level 75 character) So yes, you would have to be well prepared before taking a trip anywhere in that game. [and not to go too far off base, or incinuate anything, but it feels as though you're sorta tooting your horn about your best of the best teams. bottomline in that game is either you were good enough for the situation or you weren't, apparently you were good, so let's leave it at that.]

Using PSO as my frame of reference, the most you can do to prepare for an excursion would be to stock up on mates, fluids, and whatever weapon you felt like whacking monsters with. Monsters for the most part were of a preset difficulty so you know what you're dealing with before you get there.

Back to the main point, the death penalty. Perhaps it's my own wierd way of viewing things, but this is how they appear to me:

In FFXI, you die and lose exp, effectively making the leveling process longer. In other words, not dieing means you'll level faster than some boob who face plants left and right.

In PSU, you die causing your rank to be lower, resulting in a lower exp bonus at the end of the mission. In other words, not dieing means you're still leveling faster than that boob who face plants left and right.

In either case, not dieing and playing well results in faster leveling. I'd just take greater satisfaction in knowing that, unlike in FFXI, my character won't level down if I die.

[Kyuu]

Ah, my apologies then. I could've sworn that I saw it stated that time affects your mission rating, but obviously I was mistaken.

[Arrow203]

But you gotta think in FFXI They had 3 different revival spells, Raise I, II, and III that gave your a % of your lost exp back per death (providing that you had a WHM RDM or something that was subbing WHM) In PSU I dont think they'll have anything like that that will cause you to regain a certain %'d of the rank back..

[PrinceRhys]

So although the first two factors affect overall team ranking, the third factor makes it an individual ranking, so you can't just join in on someone's game and get an S rank right away.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Velocity_7 on 2006-08-09 14:36 ]</font>


Hehe, so I guess it stops that random person from mooching off of other people's work. I never thought of that, but it's a good system. If it wasn't in place, it would be like:

Random person to Party Leader: "I'll give you 10K meseta to let me join when you are about to finish the mission."

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-09 14:58, Spellbinder wrote:


On 2006-08-04 10:49, PandaMasterX4 wrote:

I'd have to disagree with that. People who were aware of the penelty of death would take more precautions and be well prepared before going somewhere. I explored just about every part of that game and have died many times in missions but I wasn't as butt hurt as the majority of people were mainly because I was a damn good player in that game and had a reputation to get picked up by only the best or assemble the best PT.



That's still not a completely valid argument, at least to me. Although there's no direct penalty for death in this game, if you want to level effectively, and quickly, I'd imagine you'd have to keep your wits about you as you play in PSU as well. Not to mention that PSU is an entirely different game from FFXI.

FFXI's free roam environment made it possible to easily intertwine places with a mediocre to extreme difficulty (an example, for those who know, would be the dungeon containing a monster known as Serket. Staying on the first floor is fine, but if you fall through the floor, enemy levels jump by at least 20 to 30 levels, with Serket being a monster that can easily trample an unprepared level 75 character) So yes, you would have to be well prepared before taking a trip anywhere in that game. [and not to go too far off base, or incinuate anything, but it feels as though you're sorta tooting your horn about your best of the best teams. bottomline in that game is either you were good enough for the situation or you weren't, apparently you were good, so let's leave it at that.]

Using PSO as my frame of reference, the most you can do to prepare for an excursion would be to stock up on mates, fluids, and whatever weapon you felt like whacking monsters with. Monsters for the most part were of a preset difficulty so you know what you're dealing with before you get there.

Back to the main point, the death penalty. Perhaps it's my own wierd way of viewing things, but this is how they appear to me:

In FFXI, you die and lose exp, effectively making the leveling process longer. In other words, not dieing means you'll level faster than some boob who face plants left and right.

In PSU, you die causing your rank to be lower, resulting in a lower exp bonus at the end of the mission. In other words, not dieing means you're still leveling faster than that boob who face plants left and right.

In either case, not dieing and playing well results in faster leveling. I'd just take greater satisfaction in knowing that, unlike in FFXI, my character won't level down if I die.



Which is why I agree with there being at least some kind of death penelty. I'm gonna be stressing on my party (not later on due to the unknown and the difficulty) that people are going to be needing scape dolls and doing what is needed for XP. Yah there is no xp loss, but if someone is face planting, they're holding the PT back with dropping xp. My arguement is pretty much "A death penelty is needed. Games with no penelty encourage wrecklessness and poor players."

Yah the exploration isn't really the same and there were many places in FF where there was a huge level difference. I just don't want some random idiot to wander off while we're trying to complete a mission and get gang raped by a horde on his own.

[PrinceRhys]

Which leads me to my other thought. A death penalty is necessary to cause people to try harder/play better, but I think I'll miss seeing deaths and reversers, which made forces more necessary in GC PSO since no other class could use it. I just hopes this does not lead to dumbing down the top levels and hardest stages so they can be beat without deaths. If I can't see reversers, I want to see a lot of Scape Dolls being used at those levels--not because of lack of skill, but because of the sheer difficulty of the enemies.

Just a thought.

[Velocity_7]

Expect more Scape Dolls to be used, and Forces will have staves (and those will be the only sort of weapons that will allow use of Reverser, by the way).

A little off topic but still relevant to the previous question re: kicking team members... as stated before, only the team leader can do that sort of thing. Likewise, at the mission select screen he/she can also decide how items are distributed. There are three types (described by me, not actual name):

1. Whoever picks it up first gets it.
2. Distributed evenly in team based on how many items per person (?)
3. Distributed evenly in team based on rare item value (?)

Not too sure about #2 and #3, but they allowed items to be distributed in some fashion among the team members. Basically prevents people from simply camping and looking for item boxes like, Exhibit A (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/03/18). Anytime someone picks up an item, it'll be distributed using #2 or #3. Note though that it'll only be distro'ed through whoever is in the mission area.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Velocity_7 on 2006-08-09 15:42 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

So if the AFK player in the mission area can get that S rank because he was at the mission area while the other players cleared the monsters out, does this mean a player can get away with running around doing nothing as long as he's in the mission area?

[Abaru-FP]

From Velocity_7's explanation, it would seem that way. I don't predict that this will be a problem, since if someone is halfassing it they can just be kicked from the team.

By the way, Velocity_7, it’s good to see people around who are knowledgeable and willing to take the time to explain things clearly. Thanks for the information.

[therealAERO]

Whoa Whoa whoa!! Dying doesn't mean you just get a lower Rank ie C, compared to S. Getting S rank means you get higher Class exp for the class you have equipped, and beating missions is the only way to raise your Class exp. Now if you got a C rank you would get very low class exp(which is seperate from normal exp) You can level up all you want, but if your class rank exp is low, and its level is low your stats won't be very good. Which is why dying in any mission, any mission at all should be strictly avoided.

Penalty for death(atleast for the beta)

subtracts high amount of points from your over all mission rank

By subtracting; your mission Rank goes lower

The lower the score the lower the Rank.

Low Rank means you get less, or no Class exp, and less money(Basically if you get no Class exp you might as well have not even done the mission)

[Eternal255]

XP loss for death is THE WORST IDEA EVER

Trust me, think about it. You do NOT want to lose XP for dying, or anything XP related. Losing money is ok, hopefully money is useful in this game. I dont know if they have item durabilities but if they did they could make you lose some durability when you die and such so you'd have to pay for repairs. (That would be how you make money useful too)

[PandaMasterX4]

Eternal you haven't explained why XP loss is a bad idea. The better question is "why the hell are you dying in the first place." Seriously, if you're face planting all along the way, you deserve something bad happen to you.

[Arrow203]

Meh i'd rather lose xp than money... its easier to get xp back than money... that's what i learned in ffxi but again this isn't ffxi so... yea... lowered ranks sounds fine to me.

[Jife_Jifremok]

Exp loss is for games that don't have performance-based mission rewards like this. PSU sounds fine the way it is, since you still need to do well to advance. And the lack of exp loss means you don't have to suffer because you happened to have a crap team.



On 2006-08-10 12:29, Abaru-FP wrote:
From Velocity_7's explanation, it would seem that way. I don't predict that this will be a problem, since if someone is halfassing it they can just be kicked from the team.

By the way, Velocity_7, it’s good to see people around who are knowledgeable and willing to take the time to explain things clearly. Thanks for the information.



Yeah, though there may be people who let them halfass it. I don't think that's gonna happen too much though. And if it's the team leader who decides to halfass it, the real players can just go get themselves killed and leave. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Actually, that gets me to another question: What if someone dies and leaves or gets kicked afterward? Does that death count toward the mission grade?

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-10 18:07, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

Actually, that gets me to another question: What if someone dies and leaves or gets kicked afterward? Does that death count toward the mission grade?

The death that happened would probably still count even if s/he left. Otherwise, leaders would probably just kick anyone who dies to make sure that they get a good ranking.

[PandaMasterX4]

I'll be sure to kick someone out who is in the red and soloing without the rest of the PT

JOKES!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PandaMasterX4 on 2006-08-10 20:53 ]</font>

[Axios-]

I think that the loss of potential exp is the best penalty I've heard for a while. It makes dying a real problem, but it doesn't rob you.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-08-10 21:46, Axios- wrote:

I think that the loss of potential exp is the best penalty I've heard for a while. It makes dying a real problem, but it doesn't rob you.
Agreed.

(One word posts FTW!)

[NDkEwL]

I like the grading system, it works perfectly for me since its more of a bonus for leaving rather than a penalty for dying...better for the self-esteem. Personally, i am going to quit FFXI soon, but from my experiencing, dying sucked a lot, but it was so underhanded to have people Power Levelling you too (I did accept so many PLs in my life, there isnt much to do after becoming a lvl 75 WHM besides Dynamis anyways) It made the game too easy, with a grading system like this, people can still power level you (mauling EVERYTHING while you probably kill one on your own...if that) but at least with lower missions you could have gotten the same job experience if you did a higher mission poorly.

Regardless, since you can repeat missions over and over again, people will likely be soloing the beginner missions later for S-Rank in them and they won't amount to that much anyways even if a group gets S-Rank... "Woot, got a Trimate for beating a lvl 1 mission by myself" you know? Wait, are we awarded items along with money and job experience? You aren't going to get S-Ranks right away, I have to assume.

[Zarbolord]

Sounds like someone can do the leader and then kick everybody out before the mission ends and get all the stuff, nice....
Anyway, I hope that some mission will present you with a choice of stuff, like meseta, rare/non-rare items, etc.. Kinda like FFCrystal Chronicals.

[PandaMasterX4]

On 2006-08-11 07:16, Zarbolord wrote:
Sounds like someone can do the leader and then kick everybody out before the mission ends and get all the stuff, nice....




I was thinking the saaaaame thing.

[Violation]

Wow Zarbolord, they better prevent that somehow :/

[Parn]

On 2006-08-11 06:34, NDkEwL wrote:
People will likely be soloing the beginner missions later for S-Rank in them and they won't amount to that much anyways even if a group gets S-Rank... "Woot, got a Trimate for beating a lvl 1 mission by myself" you know? Wait, are we awarded items along with money and job experience? You aren't going to get S-Ranks right away, I have to assume.
Actually, earlier missions yield less job experience than later missions. It's proportioned based on difficulty of the mission. Also, I don't recall material rewards for the completion of any of the missions... just meseta and job experience.

Getting S-rank on a mission on the beta was pretty simple... kill every monster in all stages and have no deaths. Those that joined midway or late in the mission wouldn't get S-Rank since they didn't join at the start.

[Roken]

Coming from FFXI ( which I quit ) I think the death penalty in PSU is great. You can always go back and do the mission over if you want a better rank/reward ( someone correct me on this if Im wrong ), and the money and items that you have ON you before you start the mission isnt lost.

EXP loss in FFXI to me was a horrid idea, the main reason for this is because of the amount of time needed to even gain one level in situations. After a small portion of the game, a majority of the jobs ( probably 16-17 our of 18 ) can no longer solo. Because of this, you obviously either need to make up a static which a couple friends, or wait for a party. I've never waited a long time ( 68 Samurai ) but I've heard 'horror' stories of people who've waited 6+hrs or even days to find a party. ( Either they must have had a bad reputation or people believed their job "sucked" ). In any case, you couldnt get exp fast, or alone in FFXI, and when you died, you lost a great amount of exp, sometimes maybe even leading you to de-lvl, as well as having to wait for your "weakness" to wear away before your party can get back into the swing of things and continue battling.

To me, your bound to have someone in your party, or you, die once or twice throughout the game, however the penalty of being rewarded less for doing a 'banged up job' wont make the game a chore. However, because of this, there may be more of those happy-go-lucky people who dont care if they die and/or about their teammates, only concerned about doing what they feel is right, rather than working with the team.

[Velocity_7]

On 2006-08-11 07:16, Zarbolord wrote:
Sounds like someone can do the leader and then kick everybody out before the mission ends and get all the stuff, nice....


They'll only get whatever ranking they're supposed to get, but kicking *everyone* will probably lead to death. Only griefers would go through so much trouble, and it's not worth it.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-08-14 04:08, Roken wrote:
Because of this, you obviously either need to make up a static which a couple friends, or wait for a party. I've never waited a long time ( 68 Samurai ) but I've heard 'horror' stories of people who've waited 6+hrs or even days to find a party. doing what they feel is right, rather than working with the team.



I can testify to the waiting. I believe my longest stretch without a party was 6 or 7 days when Fenrir first came out, and I was in my 50's. I'm pretty sure the dialog for a party would go along these lines [retired 75 summoner, thank god]:

<random person> Hi
<me> Hello~
<random person> Do you have Fenrir? (Fenrir's a hard to get summon)
<me> No, I'm sorry
<random person> Oh, nevermind then...

*rinse and repeat for a week*

[Roken]

I'm sorry to hear that... with me, they usually just asked if I wanted to party, however of course since my job is one of the melee type, they would ask if I had certain peices of armor such as the Haubergeon ( which I had ) before accepting someone or not.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Roken on 2006-08-14 04:53 ]</font>