Downloadeable language tracks for PSU 360?

[VR_Pilot]

While browsing Gametrailers.com, I ran across a preview of the upcoming 360 RPG Enchanted Arms and one of the features that I was surprised with was that the people at Ubisoft were gracious enough to include a Dual Language option.

Now I don't think PSU is a big a game as Enchanted Arms (Data-wise), so why not include that option for PSU360? Of course the obvious answers would be something along the lines of "its too far into developemenet" or "Sega just doesen't care".

So, if it ever got to the point where fans REALLY wanted the JP language track (I do after hearing the horrid voices in the E3 demo) do you guys think releasing it as a download through Xbox Live is a possibility? Would SEGA be willing to listen if the game ever got popular enough?

[Parn]

I honestly wouldn't count on it... if only because dual language option means Sega of America would have to pay royalties to the Japanese voice actors, meaning smaller profit margins.

[Mokona99]

It would be really nice if they just include it for the game. That wold be awesome. In truth I'm not too fond of the english voices also. But, a download is also nice. I wouldn't be hesitant on spending Microsoft points to download the Japanese tracks with English subtitles. They already said it'll release later than the PC or PS2 so there is a possibility of it being included in the 360 version. It would be really nice.

[Kers]

Yeah I'd pay to have the Japanese voices too. I find it more enjoyable.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kers on 2006-08-11 20:34 ]</font>

[PhotonCat]

I really hope all the versions have a dual-language option. If they have to make it a DLable extra, then the PC and 360 are perfect for that(I guess the PS2 will be SOL unless they implement the HDD some way).

But they shouldn't really have problems with disc space, DVDs still can hold quite a lot(dual-layer).

[PrinceBrightstar]

.hack had dual language (but that's because the JP version had the secret parody voice track)

[Saner]

downloading an alternate language selection? that has never been done before. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif



English is not so bad a language to need such a feature.

if you don't agree, why not just import the Japanese version. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Foxix]

its not that english is bad its just, for the vast majority, japanese voice acting is of a higher quality in terms of how much emotion the acters manage to pack into their voice. There are exceptions though, I have watched a few episodes of chobits and azumanga daioh in both english and japanese. I can honestly say I prefer english in these series more.
I will probably end up buying them... the creators of the series can thank youtube for the sale http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Saner]

emotion? nonsense. if you can't understand verbally what they are saying then you can never get the full feeling out of their words, since most languages express their emotions quite differently,

so much that you would think their tone is overexaggerated and fake
(which I hear often in Japanese voice-overs with their stereotypically extra loud/quiet heroes and extra squeaky heroines.
I mean have you even HEARD VOs like Lumia Waber's Japanese VO??? my gosh!!! in the scene where she's waving and jumping up and down next to Ethan, she sounded like she was mentally handicapped! ) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Foxix]

well I would just like to say that overexaggerated and fake is WAY better than bland and boring.
Star Ocean anyone? Magna Carte? I would rather have them jumping with overexaggerated joy than speaking in a passionless baritone voice as they tell me to run before some random object explodes.

[Saner]

Star Ocean 2 and 3 were voiced well. and the ones that were bad were actually pretty humourous in a good way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

never bothered with Magna Carta. from what I read and saw it didn't look like a game worth my time. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Foxix]

mmm I suggest a rental it is a love or hate it game really.
and don't sit there and tell me you enjoy bad voice acting like the last star ocean game. I saw one cutscene of that crap and vowed never to play that demonic thing. Magna cartes saving grace is it's gameplay and delicous art style.

the battle mechanics are some of the craziest I have ever seen... in magna carte of course. however if you don't even touch rhythm games you won't last in it.

You get three characters to control but can only use one at a time. Some people hate it for this reason alone. If you start to treat it like an MMO though with a tank, a healer, and a major damager dealer, its pretty fun. You need 2 attackers simply for the fact that there is only so much chi out on the field and each attack uses a different type... anyways its overly complicated but in a good way to me.

[Jife_Jifremok]

Honestly. I've heard more emotion from both Ben Stein and the pilot from Starblade than from some of the Star Ocean 2 characters, particularly Dias. Not to mention how IRRITATING it was to have Celine say "ENERGY ARROW!" and "ThunderBALL" every time she used those spells. Sadly, I didn't get too far in that so I don't know just how much worse it gets.

Star Ocean 3...I actually stomached that whole game somehow and don't remember a single instance of the voice acting, or the voices themselves. Probably wasn't that great. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

On examples of English being better than Japanese: Ever hear Makai Kingdom? Wow. The Japanese actors were blander than most bad English tracks I've heard! The English track hasd a lot more oomph in it. I didn't get far in that, but WOW the difference was astounding. The one game I actually chose English over Japanese when I had the choice.

And, even without knowing the language, there are times when you can just FEEL the emotion or whatever. Take Sora from dothack, for instance. The way his voice sounds, he really sounds like a childish ass. And that was just from hearing say that he wanted to go to the dungeon! "Dungeon ni ikou yo~!"

[Foxix]

Exactly Jife. I actually own Phantom Brave, Makai kindom, Disgaea, and Disgaea 2 on reserve.
I am a bit of a Nippon Ichi fan, and for all of these games even though I have yet to finish them, I must say the voice work is great. It is silly, but it was meant to be, you can really tell the voice actors knew what they were doing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Badass freakin' overlord.

I know exactly what you mean, if the voice actor is good then you don't actually need to understand what they are saying to get the emotion out of it.

I believe it was Saner who originally said something like this

"But the best music doesn't need words to express itself"

same goes for voice acting http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2006-08-12 00:57, Foxix wrote:

I know exactly what you mean, if the voice actor is good then you don't actually need to understand what they are saying to get the emotion out of it.

Too bad you may get little more than emotion out of the acting if you have no idea what's actually being said. Thank you subtitles for letting us understand.


On 2006-08-12 00:57, Foxix wrote:

I believe it was Saner who originally said something like this

"But the best music doesn't need words to express itself"

same goes for voice acting http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

That doesn't apply to bad voice acting though, especially if laughably bad acting is accompanied by a laughably bad script or translation. Just check out Resident Evil 1 ("You were almost a jill sandwich!") or Castle Shikigami 2 ("Irritate the world like ordering food!"). I dare anyone to find a funnier bad voice/script combo.

On another note, I think an English vocal track on par with RE1 and CS2 would increase PSU Offline's replay value, for who wouldn't want to hear tose crappy voices again? It might be pretty bad in battle though...well it can't be worse than 'Tales of Destiny II' ("Omega Demon Chaos...take this!") or Tales of Phantasia (where do I begin on the battle voices here?).

[Jack]

On 2006-08-12 01:37, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
I dare anyone to find a funnier bad voice/script combo.

Oh, that's easy. I give to you Winback (http://www.audioatrocities.com/games/winback/) on the PS2. The first clip is AMAZING (http://www.audioatrocities.com/games/winback/clip1.mp3).

[Saner]

On 2006-08-12 02:22, Jack wrote:


On 2006-08-12 01:37, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
I dare anyone to find a funnier bad voice/script combo.

Oh, that's easy. I give to you Winback (http://www.audioatrocities.com/games/winback/) on the PS2. The first clip is AMAZING (http://www.audioatrocities.com/games/winback/clip1.mp3).



LOL http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif I heard of Winback. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Foxix]

sweet lord that is the funnies thing I have ever heard

[Saner]

On 2006-08-12 00:44, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Honestly. I've heard more emotion from both Ben Stein and the pilot from Starblade than from some of the Star Ocean 2 characters, particularly Dias. Not to mention how IRRITATING it was to have Celine say "ENERGY ARROW!" and "ThunderBALL" every time she used those spells. Sadly, I didn't get too far in that so I don't know just how much worse it gets.




OH GOODNESS you have no idea what you're missing! SO2 has a really great story farther down the road and even funnier lines. not to mention the true villains of SO2 are very interesting and the climax is something people shouldn't miss. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


"Mirror Slice!"

"Rocket PUNCH!" http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Jife_Jifremok]

Wow. That site. It has things that trump, match, or come close to Resident Evil. Salute!

Great story? True villains? Sorry, but the only true villain I ever saw in SO2 was the AI as it always took over Claude whenever I pressed the attack button. That thing kept deliberately getting Claude killed, every time I pressed attack, or tried to do Air Slash or Shooting Star, the only two specials I recall having. Both moves sucked, though Shooting Star would have been good if the AI didn't take over. (I played in Semi-Auto and so-called "Manual" mode, and the AI took over the same way!) That villain kept me from seeing the story, but some big things did get spoiled for me. I'd suggest not mentioning them without blacking them out in spoiler tag.

[Saner]

the a.i. doesn't take over, attacking in Star Ocean 2 has your character automatically move in range to attack their target. if you felt like the a.i. is taking control from you, you should only attack when you manually within range, that way you have a better feel of the control and can cancel doing an action if you want to move out of harm's way instead. but ah even this is a more complicated way of explaining how SO2's attacking and targeting works. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

oh well I'm just saying it's too bad you didn't complete SO2, as a whole it gets better and worth playing through once.

[Jife_Jifremok]

I know the AI doesn't fully take over...it gives me control at the beginning of battle, after poor Claude gets hit, or after the rare moment he'd actually hit something.

Know what happened when I manually moved Claude in range to attack and then pressed the button? He moved AWAY from said enemy and got hit. Know what happened when I put him just slightly short of attack range so I could "lead the target"? He moved right into attack range and got hit. So no, I actually didn't get any feel of control, EVER. Except when I completely refrained from attacking. And then I got to see Ashton die, and Rena and Celine raped because they couldn't cast spells without the meatshields protecting them.

One time, an enemy went for Rena. Know what happened when I tried to save her by attacking him from behind? I got behind the enemy, hit the attack button, and then Claude moved IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY and got hit.

One time, I dunno why but the enemy was walking in circles and so was Claude.

Know what happened when I fought big hopping bunnies? Well, the rabbit was in the air and I hit the button, so Claude swiped at the air below him. So I pressed the button while the bunny was on the ground, and Claude did some weird "upthrust" air attack that somehow missed. The process repeated and the next MISS upthrust landed him on top of the bunny. I pressed the button again, and he walked off, swung and I forget what happened after that.

I've died more times in that game in two hours (counting only battle time), than I would have died if I were playing Ghosts n Goblins, Gunsmoke, Gradius, Ikaruga and Space Harrier at the same time for the same two hours. The sad part is, I can't even tell if I'm exaggerating. Well, I look back on it and laugh because it really is funny. Especially the running in circles bit.

And then I played Tales of Eternia (well, "Tales of Destiny II" as I thought it was at the time), which has Semi-Auto like SO but Reid actually hit stuff. Plus its Manual mode gave full control over Reid's actions so I didn't lose control at all, so it was actually my own fault whenever I got hit, missed, or died.

Wow, that totally hijacked the topic. Well, let's just say that whoever gripes about bad voice acting has NOTHING on one who's seen such atrocious control issues.

[Fleece]

They wont be able to fit dual languages on the disc ATM, Its a dual layer DVD and most of it is taken up with data, putting an entire games worth of MP3/WAV files on the disc will take up a hell of a lot of extra space. Lets not forget its not just the game on this cd its also the online mode with upto 3 years of extra content.

So the question is, would you rather have less online content and have to buy another disc in a year and have the japanese speech or would you rather have it the way it is now.

[Saner]

good point the voice overs after all are said to be a few hours worth, and that doubles if theres' two languages.

[PhotonCat]

Why do Eng-dub lovers come in threads like these and just have to preach about "Eng-dubs is soo much better!"

We aren't(at least I'm not) saying that "Eng-dubs suck!". I am saying that I would like to have both dubs as an option.

And liking either Eng or JP dubs is purely based on opinion. You may think all the dubs you hear are "Godsend" but others may cringe at them.

[Foxix]

mmm not really think about its what is the current space required on the PC version? something like 3 gigs? well I can't imagine the voices taking up more that 1 gig if they are well compressed. so what does that mean? you just add a little more information on the disc >_> they're not out of room they are just lazy. Current DVD 9's hold 9 gigs, Oblivion only took up about 4.5 gigs and thats WITH all of the voices. Dear god PSU is going to be massive O_O

[Parn]

Actually, the space required for the PC version is 9 gigs.

[Foxix]

mmm, linky? that can't be right >_>

actually never mind I just found a link saying it will take up a minimum of 3 gigs the max will be 10 gigs... that much won't even fit on the discs O_o <-- is confused. link:

http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=1523

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Foxix on 2006-08-12 17:06 ]</font>

[A2K]

I would surmise the extra room is probably for caching of some sort.

[Emrald]

On 2006-08-12 00:44, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Honestly. I've heard more emotion from both Ben Stein and the pilot from Starblade than from some of the Star Ocean 2 characters, particularly Dias. Not to mention how IRRITATING it was to have Celine say "ENERGY ARROW!" and "ThunderBALL" every time she used those spells. Sadly, I didn't get too far in that so I don't know just how much worse it gets.

Star Ocean 3...I actually stomached that whole game somehow and don't remember a single instance of the voice acting, or the voices themselves. Probably wasn't that great. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

On examples of English being better than Japanese: Ever hear Makai Kingdom? Wow. The Japanese actors were blander than most bad English tracks I've heard! The English track hasd a lot more oomph in it. I didn't get far in that, but WOW the difference was astounding. The one game I actually chose English over Japanese when I had the choice.

And, even without knowing the language, there are times when you can just FEEL the emotion or whatever. Take Sora from dothack, for instance. The way his voice sounds, he really sounds like a childish ass. And that was just from hearing say that he wanted to go to the dungeon! "Dungeon ni ikou yo~!"



First thing's first! Star Ocean Sucked! anyways

Remmber the sonic games? The old sonic adventure two battle? it had a japanese voice track! and it was very good if you had English subtitles...Though I prefered english cause knuckles sounded cooler...all the japanese voice acters sounded to old for their characters

[Blitzkommando]

I frankly don't enjoy English dubs. While there can be bad voice actors on both sides of the sea, the English dubs seem to, based on my experience, be annoying enough to ruin the story. I have to say another reason is that the Japanese tend to find excellent voice actors for the personalities of the characters. Yukari of Azumanga Daioh stands out to me as she came off as extremely believable, really the entire show was perfect in my mind. Turned it on the English dub and I frankly couldn't stand the tracks.

Another thing to keep in mind installation size and size of the install files are often different, and if done correctly, extremely different. The example I always bring up is Unreal Tournament 2004. It fits very nicely on a single-layer DVD at a little over 3GB. Once installed it jumps up to nearly 6GB. It had a nearly perfect 50% size reduction which accounted for the rather lengthy install where it had to decompress all of the data. If Sega were to incorperate any kind of modern compression techniques and use formats that easily compress they could very easily, based on my experience with a large number of computer games, cut it down by at least 25% and that is if they don't do it well.

While it is true audio files are some of the worst types for compression, other types, such as scripts with lots of repeating data (such as AI), maps, models, and certain texture formats, compress extremely well. In some cases they compress over 50%. Saying that Sega uses just a mild type of compression and poor choices for compression they could get the game down to around 7GB on the disc. That still leaves a full 1.4GB of 'empty' space on a dual-layer disc or if they were using two 4.7GB discs (which I would frankly not be surprised to see) they would have 2.4GB of free space left.

As for the PS2 version it should be much smaller anyway because it simply doesn't work with the high resolution textures (512x512 or greater) which greatly reduces the file sizes. I'm sure there are other hardware limitations with the PS2 hardware that will also allow for much of the data to be cut down in size. All of this reclaimed space could be used for a seperate scripting area.

The Xbox360 is a bit different from the PS2 in a number of ways. It can use the higher resolution textures, higher poly-count models, among other things that would be reduced for the PS2 but not for the Xbox360 or PC. Even so, there would most likely be enough room on the disc for a seperate audio track as audio tracks are rather small. And, I imagine the Xbox360 doesn't use lossless audio format for voice, but probably a higher quality WMA format which can have excellent compression while keeping optimal quality. Because I believe this would be used for the music, and all audio files associated (just like the Xbox did) would be rather small in total size. This, again, would allow for room for a second audio track.

I'm not saying that the original language track is included, but I am saying that it is quite possible to do so with all three versions rather easily. File compression is rather good today and there are a huge number of formats that do compression. The reason pictures and audio files don't compress is because they already are compressed formats and thus compressing them any more (such as zipping them up) can't remove any excess or duplicate data because there is none because the data has already been cleaned to the point that the net compression gain would be just a few bytes per file, essentially null. Personally I would love to see both included with the NA and EU versions but it wouldn't surprise me either way it goes.

[Inu_Shadi]

On 2006-08-12 17:00, Foxix wrote:
mmm, linky? that can't be right >_>

actually never mind I just found a link saying it will take up a minimum of 3 gigs the max will be 10 gigs... that much won't even fit on the discs O_o <-- is confused. link:

http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=1523

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Foxix on 2006-08-12 17:06 ]</font>
Nope, Never trust Sega of America, I guarantee you that, they havent updated that page for ages, look it still says CDROM!

Japanese PSU site says 9 GB MINIMUM

and heres a link for proof http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=1542&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Inu_Shadi on 2006-08-13 01:39 ]</font>