Clans/Guilds Abolished

[Roken]

I've played PSO for DC, but only offline so I dont know much of what had happened here. I've played many other MMO's that have clans and guilds as well, however, for some reason, they said in an interview ( not sure on this ) that there will no longer be a guild system. I dont really care if there is or isnt one, but why did they not put it in this game ? I heard there were some problems in the past but in the discussion, it was only touched briefly. If anyone can answer this for me, thanks.

[-Shimarisu-]

Because clans are for silly little boys and their silly playground power struggles.

[Saner]

that supported feature are not needed. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

people will STILL form clans in this game. Partner Cards are all they need to keep in touch. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[White_Zephyr]

I could care less about a clan system, but I would like to have a reward system between friends, even individually. In BB for example, the little lobby avatar you get for wracking up team points is neat (I only played 1 month on BB, so I may not be remembering how it worked right). I'll be happy if there is no super 1337, snobby, endgame only clan/guild.

[Mewn]

Teams only caused factionalism in BB, and a lot of friction in the community. I'm glad they're gone for PSU. The idea didn't work well with the community and it was horribly implemented to boot, imo.

[Saner]

ya there shouldn't be opposing factions within something like Guardians. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-08-17 11:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Because clans are for silly little boys and their silly playground power struggles.


Heh, I'm actually in total agreement with you. They always seem to be comprised of younger kids wanting to feel important (which is ok, everyone needs to feel important) but were usually a mishmash of varying levels of officers/members and were the model of ineffectiveness/inefficiency/uselessness. If you have a group of players that you enjoy leveling with and generally have a good time with, that's awesome, but it doesn't require the need for any type of formal (and I use the term loosely) guild/clan/whatever.

[ShadowDragon28]

On 2006-08-17 11:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Because clans are for silly little boys and their silly playground power struggles.




I agree.

[Tycho]

I'm with Shima, Mewn and Violet. >_>;

[Emrald]

I'm indiffernt as long as you can have a friends list I'm okay

[FANTASHEVA]

On 2006-08-17 11:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Because clans are for silly little boys and their silly playground power struggles.



Amen.

[Arrow203]

FFXI Ruined me of clans... tired of them all together.... *yuck*

[White_Zephyr]

endgame linkshells killed my inner child.

[Roken]

I played FFXI ( quit it ), but I think the community on a whole was better than alot of other MMOs, at least on my server. Of course there were times when people became aggrivating and what-not, I believe one of the reasons I made my own LS, aside from having a couple friends to keep in touch with, feeling as if no matter where we went, we were always together, instead of having to type to each person individually through /tells ( /tells are PMs in FFXI ).

Ours was more of a social/helpful LS, but still, after a while we did have our problems with some of the members and what-not. People said that our LS was a good one, I didnt really believe that, even if the majority of members werent at higher lvls.

But after making a second character, I guess they were right. There was factionalism, with people trying to do Ballista ( PvP ) against other LS over petty arguements, as well as a place for immature people to curse up a storm for no reason and never making any sense. Even after seeing that, I never thought that people really disliked guilds in MMOs, but I guess here in PSO there must have been an obessive amount of factionalism, which is why it isnt here in PSU. In any case, thanks for your answers/opinions.

[Arrow203]

Well it was all the drama in FFXI that ruined me of the entire game including clans / linkshells.. hell i remember back in PSO DC version you could go onto a lobby and be like hey "insertnamehere" your a fag.. and you would aregue for like 5 mins.. all of the sudden one of the 2 dudes who were fighting would be like ok i'ma go make a room.. the other dude would be like.. cya lata and that's that...

[Kyuu]

*shrugs* I dunno. I never had any problems with the guild system in PSOBB.

I won't really miss it, though. The only reason guilds are really needed in MMOs at all are for large-party raids (20 people and up), because organizing the raids within a guild is much simpler. It does have the downside of factionalizing and petty guilds who think they're "superior," but that's a necessary evil, just as governments are a necessary evil in the real world.

On a small scale, as with the 6 member parties in PSU, formal guilds aren't necessary (just as formal governments aren't needed for small populations).

[Tystys]

OMFG NOOB LEIK DUN INSULT DAH MEHGA ULTIMATE CLNAZORS, LAWL

;(

[Killuminati]

The thing is you guys are comparing PSO guild system to FFXI(linkshell) or WoW(guild system). The guild system in this game is nothing like those two. It's nothing but a friend list that's it they just renamed it.

[FANTASHEVA]

On 2006-08-17 23:49, Killuminati wrote:
The thing is you guys are comparing PSO guild system to FFXI(linkshell) or WoW(guild system). The guild system in this game is nothing like those two. It's nothing but a friend list that's it they just renamed it.



This is the real truth.

The idea of clan/guilds in any MMORPG become quickly an "elite stuff" and then a way of playin' based on selfishness, that kind of egoism that leads players to join only with people who can give them more exp, more power rather than fun & friendship...

A kind of "everybody has to do somethin' for me but don't ask me nothin' for you...

The soul and the game-culture of PSO [PSU] has always been "the other side of the moon" of this concept...

"People" come in first, The Game is the mean to reach others and not vice versa.

This is why there's no need of Clans and Guilds as they are conceived in other Online Games.
This is one of the aspect that make me love PSO...

[Niki]

On 2006-08-18 01:23, FANTASHEVA wrote:

This is the real truth.

The idea of clan/guilds in any MMORPG become quickly an "elite stuff" and then a way of playin' based on selfishness, that kind of egoism that leads players to join only with people who can give them more exp, more power rather than fun & friendship...

A kind of "everybody has to do somethin' for me but don't ask me nothin' for you...

The soul and the game-culture of PSO [PSU] has always been "the other side of the moon" of this concept...

"People" come in first, The Game is the mean to reach others and not vice versa.

This is why there's no need of Clans and Guilds as they are conceived in other Online Games.
This is one of the aspect that make me love PSO...

I just don't belong in North America. The people I fit in with are 8000 miles away. Funny, there I go using the Imperial measurements again...

For me, the whole idea of a Team/Guild is camaraderie. Making a commitment to people you trust. It's true that it's not necessary to form a Team to do that. You know who your friends are. It's also true that in a game like PSU, Guilds are more or less unnecessary. I don't think it's a feature PSU is lacking, but I'm not against it. People find camaraderie in different ways.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

/me agrees with Mewn and Shim and Tycho and the rest. If it weren't for things like PoD, then I wouldn't be on a team at all (nothing against my teammates, all of whom I love). But yeah, almost all the trouble I encountered on BB was in some way related to the team system.

[l3iohazard]

im going to have to disagree with some of you on this clans is one of the most fun features of any mmorgp like in Runescape(yea i know lol) just the team work and the freindship and the wars all out 200 Vs. 200 of humans beings at there computers fighting for who is the strongest earning respect...then when u have, all absolute power your clan has such an infulence in the game where you can alter rules like saying protection prayer is for pussyies and guess what? about 60% of all runescape stoped useing prayer >:D

another example of clans was on PSOBB i liekd the donateing rare items for the team and getting bonuses like the clan flag and other perks

any way clans ftw

[Neith]

For the most part, all I've seen from clans in games is negative, they seem to fuel the PWNED culture http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

Creates a lot of backlash between clan members/rival clans, and ends up spoiling a game for a lot of people.

I can't say the same about my team in PSOBB, but we all got on really well anyway.

So yeah, I'm glad the whole clan/guild feature is gone, it certainly won't be missed. If you have friends who play, you can probably contact them in some way- there really isn't a 'need' for clans in PSU. Here's hoping there won't be AS much drama as there's been in BB, that got beyond ridiculous.

Hopefully it'll be more like a group of friends having a good laugh too, rather than 'ZOMG POWAHLEVEL ME!1111'.

[RLoge21]

Good because clans are not necessary IMO.

[ulyoth]

Not necessary, but its nice to be in one, just a group of friends for me will suffice...and we got 3rd on the AOL cup. Abit of competition is good.

[Emrald]

Yeah but some of the PSO BB clans were like to into it....Trying to stay at the top of the list....blark....like SwiftKnights (a clan I was in for most of my PSOBB life) was up there a few times...though we didn't TRY to get up there like jeM did.

[White_Zephyr]

I'm still pretty neutral on the subject. I thought I'd point out that it's usually gung-ho clans that discover most of the content of a game early, so that casual players can look it up on the intarwebs. Usually, yes clans are driven by gain, (like capitalism lawl), but I've seen dedicated clans/linkshells that are close-nit like family. Just playing devil's advocate a little.

[Emrald]

You don't have to be a hard core player to be in a clan

[Natrokos]

On 2006-08-17 14:12, coolcat33333 wrote:
I'm indiffernt as long as you can have a friends list I'm okay



Agreed. It would be pretty foolish not to include a friends list. =(

[Authenticate]

Guilds just allow easy communication between multiple people. You can easily accomplish the same thing with an IRC channel for your PSU friends, in my oppinion. It'd be nice if they at least added some kind of channel system like WoW has.

[Arrow203]

yea a general chat system where you could talk with all your friends at one given time instead of just sending them all the same message.. that will get kinda annoying.

[JAR]

On 2006-08-18 20:40, Authenticate wrote:
It'd be nice if they at least added some kind of channel system like WoW has.


Yeah it was great how you could use the general channel and then swith to party or guild(Although I guess that last one wouldn't be an issue for PSU), I found it was a good system for isolating the people you wanted to talk to moment to moment.

[_Tek_]

if there was an integrated clan system it would be too easy for people to make random clans, and it ends up not really meaning anything.

and then you end up getting forced to be in a clan if you want to get its exclusive rewards.

also in the end its just a tag/user title. if we could just have that alone that'd be alright. User titles are cool

[Shade-]

from what I hear about PSO:BBs team system, i wouldn't like it much.

But I dont see a problem with having a guild system where one can get a group of friends/contacts that they can chat with at any time, weather in a city or in a game. I guess that was most of my experience with linkshells in FFXI. It was a group of a few dozen players who would just chat it up while waiting around/playing in a group. I dont see any harm in that really. And yes, I know the general feel if PSO is different than a regular MMO where you just enter a random room and "sup guys" everybody, but PSU will be a little more involved and MMO-like, and I think being able to say "Hey, I'm going to do Linear Line A in a few, anybody want fo join?" to a bunch of players you know you get along well with ruins the gaming experience for anyone.

[SS_Death]

Ok, I haven't noticed anyone say i but I might be wrong but...how about Guild Wars.

Yes, i know, totally different but look at the similarities. When you go out into the world you get a copy for you...and your party. Just like in all the PSO games to date. Guilds in that worked rather well, personally my friends and I have a very small guild just for us. Makes chat easier when lots of us are online together and not in a party.

In truth that's the only reason I would want to see that kind of system, as someone else already pointed out. Easier than trying to PM five friends and co-ordinate forming a team.

[Killuminati]

On 2006-08-18 20:40, Authenticate wrote:
Guilds just allow easy communication between multiple people. You can easily accomplish the same thing with an IRC channel for your PSU friends, in my oppinion. It'd be nice if they at least added some kind of channel system like WoW has.


That would be the best thing to me and the best setup I have experienced while playing any of these games(PSO,FFXI, WoW)

[Saner]

On 2006-08-18 21:01, Arrow203 wrote:
yea a general chat system where you could talk with all your friends at one given time instead of just sending them all the same message.. that will get kinda annoying.



well that encourages friends to actually play together instead of just chating from long distance.

just send a message to friends to meet somewhere and just chat in the same area.

[Roken]

On 2006-08-20 05:44, Saner wrote:


On 2006-08-18 21:01, Arrow203 wrote:
yea a general chat system where you could talk with all your friends at one given time instead of just sending them all the same message.. that will get kinda annoying.



well that encourages friends to actually play together instead of just chating from long distance.

just send a message to friends to meet somewhere and just chat in the same area.





Even though thats probably a good option, it can sometimes get cumbersome, especially if your in the middle of doing something you want to hurry and get done. It also allows privacy between the friends, maybe if they were acting goofy around their good friends in that certain chat, and dont want others to perceive them as if they act like that all the time.

[Black_Heart]

On 2006-08-20 05:44, Saner wrote:


On 2006-08-18 21:01, Arrow203 wrote:
yea a general chat system where you could talk with all your friends at one given time instead of just sending them all the same message.. that will get kinda annoying.



well that encourages friends to actually play together instead of just chating from long distance.

just send a message to friends to meet somewhere and just chat in the same area.

While I agree an integrated "friends" chat channel would be great. I believe it won't be hard to keep your group of friends together. There will be servers or instances of the cities correct? Just designate a specific instance/server/town for your friends to hang out in and things should be able to go smoothly.

[Varo]

I agree with you guys about the drama issues guilds bring. But don't you guys miss those late night guild chat topics (especially when alcohol is involved)? I mean common, I've had so many good laughs from those. I suppose you could just stay in your 6-man static party and still talk while messing around but something about that guild chat.

That's the only drawback I see but that's just me being too critical. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Blackwaltz-R]

Not that having clans is that big a deal, the problem that basiclly everyone is stating is that their are many pretentious kids who dilute the value of starting a clan putting a bad tatse in our mouths when clan/guild is uttered.

[Kindaichi]

Though i would love to have a guild system psu really doesnt need one. To me psu shouldnt even count as a mmo...whenever i play pso i feel like im playing a game of its own genre. Thats why I want it so badly, i'm sick and tired of pressing attacks and watch my character do them, I want to feel like I am in the action http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RoboKy]

There's not really a need for clans in this game since there's nothing that needs more than 6 people to get done. Guild wars only needed guilds because it was in the title of the game and needed to organize teams going into "competition". If you wanted a replacement for a chat type guild or role playing guild you could always go to the dance club when it opens up or where ever role players or people who just like to chat hang out (like random arenas in guild wars.... so many Naruto fans and rpers who did'nt like to get /drum ed)

[StanleyPain]

How can they disallow something that was a social function anyway? Clans are already forming and, expect there to be hundreds of clan people on day one all with their little tags in their name. Meaningless as it is.
I don't care if people want to make teams/clans/guilds whatever, but I do think it's pretty silly in general. On occasion it works. I remember in the early days of PSO, someone made a relatively successful Under Level 20 Guild, where characters could get help, extra items, etc.. It worked pretty well, and I participated for a little bit. When cheating became so widespread, there were a few anti-hack guilds that did a lot of good (and, no, not the fanatical, crazy anti-cheat people).

[Souppy]

Bah... tbh... guilds are not that important. Ppl will still make up clans but a lot of ppl will just enjoy playing with a lot of ppl they don't know... that's why I play PSO. There is no big strategy like FFXI about the jobs and clans can't control the market (by camping NMs and controlling AuctionHouse prices like they did in FFXI). So clans are really... eh... worthless in PSU. Play with your friends and others at the same time... it's more fun that way.

[Varo]

Hmm, after reviewing the full thread it seems that there isn't even a chat channel. Unless i'm misunderstanding. In order to talk to a specific person or group you have to be near them (or within "say" distance as it is sometimes called), am I right? Does this apply to all forms of chat? Friends, party/team, area/zone? In other words, is "say" chat and "tells/whispers" the only form of communication available?

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand how the communication system in this game works. It's hard for me to imagine the online portion of PSU working without having a more robust chat system than the one I described above. Even Guild Wars, which is closer to what PSU will be like, has chat channels. I would assume that people who play online do so to play with friends and meet new people. Perhaps some of the higher end missions have a boss at the end which requires a bit of strategy. Again, I've never played any of the previous PSO games so I don't know how difficult or in depth the missions become so maybe there aren't any bosses and it's just pure hack, slash, and shoot, no strategy involved. Even so, I would still think communication would be necessary for at least minor issues. At some point, I'd probably like to be able to say something to my entire team without having to send an individual whisper to all five party members or worry if one of them wasn't within the "say radius".

I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just trying to understand how this is going to work. I wish I could play the game or see an example of interaction with other players. Someone help me out here and explain it too me.

[Alexandrious1]

Pretty much I like the idea of no clans/guilds. Had enough of them in past mmos *mostly in powergaming guilds* however, I only like this idea so long as the hacking and duping problems, which may occur, are kept at a MINIMAL. If it gets, even to where its at on PSOBB, I would wish that teams/clans/guilds were in PSU so I can find a solid team of legits to play with for my girlfriend and I.

[Garroway]

To me, it seems that the people that want to have petty squabbles over irrelevant criteria will find ways to organise factions and participate in these so-called "power struggles" reguardless of a functioning guild system. Guild systems are nothing more than tools to facilitate certain aspects of social elements within a game. You can make arguments about the actual usefulness of the tool in general, however the tool is nothing more than that. It is pointless to believe that by simply limiting social functionality you will eliminate the undesirable aspects that you've attributed to a guild system. These aspects will simply manifest anew using a different medium. What then? Eliminate more tools to make social interaction even more ambiguous? I think it would be a better course of action to address the undesirable behavior than to eliminate an otherwise useful apparatus out of concern for it becoming a medium for this undesirable behavior.

[AnamanaAU]

The only real use of Teams in PSOBB was the Team Chat, which is now merged into parties. Cards is all you need to find your friends.

[DrizaSiegmund]

Partner cards and My Room personal speaking medias exist. If people want to dwell in fear that their happyness has been obstructed before theyve even actually played this game then heck, go ahead, make yourself paranoid.


Linkshells/Clans and Guilds are not forms that promote communication, they cause isolation. What better way to make a new person feel they are unwanted than by having seperate socialite groups from them?
This is when helpful people neednt make clans/linkshells because hanging out with everyone in the city promotes openness and comfort for all.

Forgive Sega for not thinking soo idiotically as to promote such environments :J and people who actually want guilds should continue thanking your highschool that such sad forcings continue to exist.

[Zael]

I liked the Factionalism.

From what I experienced, if the team system is used right - for the purpose of meeting new people, making it easier to put together game, and to bring many different people as a close group of friends; it can be one a really awesome feature. While it may be the unpopular opinion, I loved PSO:BB's team system. It's helped me make so many friends, and to introduce new people into a pretty cool, close group of friends. It's helped the members feel like someone important, and someone who can make a difference.

I honestly beleive all the team system hate comes from the fact that many people use the concept of guilds and clans for the wrong purposes, such as "making a 1337 end-game group that's better then everyone else" or to have drama wars with other clans/guilds.

The team system's really what the people who use it make of it. It can be one of the best gifts, or one of the worst curses.

[Tystys]

On 2006-08-17 11:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Because clans are for silly little boys and their silly playground power struggles.



This made me laugh.

Power Struggles over the playground are fun.

[Ryogen]

There is no Guild System probabilly becuase there are Guild Cards (or friend cards or somthin). It dosen't stop you from making a connecting community though.

[Ryogen]

I read though the thread and many of you don't have a fully understand of what most guilds are and what most guilds isn't. A guild in PSU would most likely be for easy communication, trustworthy, friendship and a helping hand in a community. Would you rather be in a guild where you have people you can play with, communicate, trust (with items, money, etc), and befriend with rather than be with people who will use you, backstab, annoy, nag or make a dishonest trade with you?

Many guilds are made for a community basis. Communication, trust, friendship and a helping hand. That is what real guilds are about. Stop comparing PSU to games like WoW and Everquest. A different game is a different goal.

Some of you lost the idea of a Guild as a easy communication community rather than a powerleveling, powerhungry and fame based play. Most guilds are like that, but I don't think a guild like that would make it far in PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryogen on 2006-09-28 03:28 ]</font>

[Zarbolord]

It would implode the first day http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Jack]

My guild in WoW rules. There's only about six of us in it, and we don't care about endlessly farming raids to get slightly better items. We're just there to help each other, have fun, and take the piss out of each other on Teamspeak.

[Tycho]

lolz, thread necromancy

[Zael]

On 2006-09-28 03:27, Ryogen wrote:
I read though the thread and many of you don't have a fully understand of what most guilds are and what most guilds isn't. A guild in PSU would most likely be for easy communication, trustworthy, friendship and a helping hand in a community. Would you rather be in a guild where you have people you can play with, communicate, trust (with items, money, etc), and befriend with rather than be with people who will use you, backstab, annoy, nag or make a dishonest trade with you?

Many guilds are made for a community basis. Communication, trust, friendship and a helping hand. That is what real guilds are about. Stop comparing PSU to games like WoW and Everquest. A different game is a different goal.

Some of you lost the idea of a Guild as a easy communication community rather than a powerleveling, powerhungry and fame based play. Most guilds are like that, but I don't think a guild like that would make it far in PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryogen on 2006-09-28 03:28 ]</font>

I definitely agree here. I see my PSO:BB team (Forever) as a close group of friends I can trust, play lots of games with, and becomes friends even outside of PSO with.

I really do wish they had a team system on PSU. It's not like anyone's forced to use it. Hate it? don't use it. Love it? use it! Kinda like the debate on whether PvP should be in PSU.

[AngelLight]

Alot of these negative responses seem to be from people who were having organizational problems and/or conflicts in previous MMOs, mainly focused on FFXI which is pretty much on it's last legs. I haven't played FFXI in quite a long time, but from what I've heard its been rapidly spiraling downhill. In that case then, any MMO will be a fresh start, including here.

However, like anything, a good guild or clan will support an ideal of team play, cooperation, and family. Any competent "non-power-rushing" organization will tell you that. Since this game will also not open up with PvP, these tenents are even more critical to the PvE focus then in any other MMO. And yet, what we're seeing here is a more soloist bent (yes you'll rack up lots of friends and could theoretically play with them, but it seems that there's more of a hardline independence coming from the PSO forum community). I suspect that this too is also due to the fact that most of its members seem to be ex-FFXI players, aka the most solo unfriendly MMO on the face of the planet today. Nothing wrong with being able to solo from time to time.

But, in the end, if you're in a good guild....with good people....who share the same idealogy....there's no reason why that guild should ever have drama or cause friction. What everyone seems to be describing is either a PvP bent (which wont exist here for the time being) or poor leadership or organizational problems. But again, I imagine I wont convert anyone due to the fact that I truly sympathize with anyone who has played FFXI this long.

The only thing that really surprised me on this thread was that there's a mod for this site posting anti-guild when the site itself has its own personal "team page" hosting for guilds http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Of course, even mods have the right to have their own opinions. ^_^



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-09-28 05:45 ]</font>

[Varo]

I think Angel is right. A lot of us, myself included, are probably blowing this way out of proportion. The only issue I'm remotely worried about is the communication system. I'm probably over analyzing (like usual >.>) and it's probably not going to be a problem at all. Just have to wait for the game to be released.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Varo on 2006-09-28 07:05 ]</font>

[Valkayree]

On 2006-08-17 12:24, White_Zephyr wrote:
I'll be happy if there is no super 1337, snobby, endgame only clan/guild.



*Thinks of FFXI and cringes* ^~^

[zofia]

On 2006-08-17 13:01, Mewn wrote:
Teams only caused factionalism in BB, and a lot of friction in the community. I'm glad they're gone for PSU. The idea didn't work well with the community and it was horribly implemented to boot, imo.



I couldn't agree more!

I hated the team system in BB.

I like how in pre-BB PSO, when you were in a team that's who you chatted with. If you had to chat with someone else, there was always simple mail (or away-messages). But in BB you had that team chat window plus in-team-chatting and, I dunno, it felt too mmorpg-like.

I just like chatting with who I play with.

Guilds are one of the many reasons I end up hating any mmorpg I play. I just like to play and meet who I meet and like who I like and that's it. I really can't stand 'organized friendships' because it ALWAYS, I repeat: ALWAYS, turns into drama.

I don't particularly like drama. I like fun.

And cake.

And caek.

And Kool Aid.

And various other things... >_>

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-28 03:27, Ryogen wrote:

Would you rather be in a guild where you have people you can play with, communicate, trust (with items, money, etc), and befriend with rather than be with people who will use you, backstab, annoy, nag or make a dishonest trade with you?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryogen on 2006-09-28 03:28 ]</font>


My average day in every guild I had in FFXI went something like this...

"Hey can I have XXXXX? Can someone help me out? Can I get XXXXX? Does anyone have one of XXXXX they want to get rid of? Hey I'm doing Mission X-X can someone help me? I need XXXXX. Why won't anybody help us!" Need Need Need Need Need never Give.

[AngelLight]

On 2006-09-28 07:15, Valkayree wrote:
My average day in every guild I had in FFXI went something like this...

"Hey can I have XXXXX? Can someone help me out? Can I get XXXXX? Does anyone have one of XXXXX they want to get rid of? Hey I'm doing Mission X-X can someone help me? I need XXXXX. Why won't anybody help us!" Need Need Need Need Need never Give.




May I ask where in this makes you think this is how a guild should be?

Again, this isn't what someone looking for a guild should be going for. Why subject yourself to this? And, yet....in the same breath....why would you blanket statement ALL guilds as this? This isn't a black or white world....nor society....so why start painting guilds this way when it isn't so?

[princejake2]

I plan on making a Guild. We arn't going to be elitests either, because I don't allow that in my current one.

[Ryogen]

On 2006-09-28 03:27, Ryogen wrote:
I read though the thread and many of you don't have a fully understand of what most guilds are and what most guilds isn't. A guild in PSU would most likely be for easy communication, trustworthy, friendship and a helping hand in a community. Would you rather be in a guild where you have people you can play with, communicate, trust (with items, money, etc), and befriend with rather than be with people who will use you, backstab, annoy, nag or make a dishonest trade with you?

Many guilds are made for a community basis. Communication, trust, friendship and a helping hand. That is what real guilds are about. Stop comparing PSU to games like WoW and Everquest. A different game is a different goal.

Some of you lost the idea of a Guild as a easy communication community rather than a powerleveling, powerhungry and fame based play. Most guilds are like that, but I don't think a guild like that would make it far in PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryogen on 2006-09-28 03:28 ]</font>






On 2006-09-28 05:43, AngelLight wrote:
Alot of these negative responses seem to be from people who were having organizational problems and/or conflicts in previous MMOs, mainly focused on FFXI which is pretty much on it's last legs. I haven't played FFXI in quite a long time, but from what I've heard its been rapidly spiraling downhill. In that case then, any MMO will be a fresh start, including here.

However, like anything, a good guild or clan will support an ideal of team play, cooperation, and family. Any competent "non-power-rushing" organization will tell you that. Since this game will also not open up with PvP, these tenents are even more critical to the PvE focus then in any other MMO. And yet, what we're seeing here is a more soloist bent (yes you'll rack up lots of friends and could theoretically play with them, but it seems that there's more of a hardline independence coming from the PSO forum community). I suspect that this too is also due to the fact that most of its members seem to be ex-FFXI players, aka the most solo unfriendly MMO on the face of the planet today. Nothing wrong with being able to solo from time to time.

But, in the end, if you're in a good guild....with good people....who share the same idealogy....there's no reason why that guild should ever have drama or cause friction. What everyone seems to be describing is either a PvP bent (which wont exist here for the time being) or poor leadership or organizational problems. But again, I imagine I wont convert anyone due to the fact that I truly sympathize with anyone who has played FFXI this long.

The only thing that really surprised me on this thread was that there's a mod for this site posting anti-guild when the site itself has its own personal "team page" hosting for guilds http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Of course, even mods have the right to have their own opinions. ^_^



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-09-28 05:45 ]</font>



I'd say Angel and I stated the subject perfectly well.

[zofia]

I'm not anti-guild for everyone, technically.

I've just never seen an 'official' guild actually work. Ever.

I have been in loose-knit groups of friends on PSO (DC and GC) where 5-12 people just, naturally, over time, became online friends and chose to play and rare hunt and have fun together. Some people might have called those groups guilds, but we never did.

I've also been in guilds (in WoW, FFXI, etc.) that 'promised' they were casual and all about fun and it NEVER worked out that way. Never. The pressure in an 'official' guild to maintain the # of guildmates and status and all that always leads to elitism or factions (or both) and eventually power-grind-or-leave or they just break up in a big dramatic mess of ultimate badness or they just fade away...

My hope is to find new cool friends, over time, in PSU. People I like to play with. People who want to help each other. But I'm not interested in having a group 'name' or a group 'mission statement' or anything like that. And I don't want very many people, because a lot of people = drama. That's like a law or something. =p I also like to be free, to wander the servers and meet new people. When I'm in a guild I always feel obligated to help guildies first and I'm just too chaotic to be held to that sort of stuff. =p

But if you all have had good experiences in guilds and like the concept and want to make a sort of guild on PSU then all I can say is: good luck and have fun! Really!

[Cymdai]

I hear you entirely on the FFXI destroying the guild system for me forever.

Watching friendships dissolve so that they could join an ''elite'' linkshell, and kis some officer's ass for months to get 1 piece of equipment, it was horrible. I was on Bismarck, and we had the Lunarians, IRON, and all that garbage. I'll never join a guild in any game again after that god-awful experience presented by LSes in FFXI.

End-game drama has scarred me for life, haha.

[AngelLight]

ok, see this is much better now......what started as a potential flame-fest thread has been brought down to a honest, mature discussion on the personal experiences and or the neuances of a good guild vs. bad one.

Lession of the day: People can disagree and still be civilized to each other ^_^

If you feel you've had enough of the guild system, then of all the outcoming mmos, this would be the one to do it in (due to the game mechanics). However, if you are looking for that family to be a part of, then there are good people out there (I'd like to think myself included) that are of the same mindset and a guild is still viable even without a special chat function (besides, there's always Vent or TS for that ^_^ )

[Zael]

You can't really compare FFXI guilds to potential PSU guilds. One main reason is because in FFXI you practically can't do ANYTHING without the party.



On 2006-09-28 08:33, zofia wrote:
I'm not anti-guild for everyone, technically.

I've just never seen an 'official' guild actually work. Ever.

You have never seen my team guild yet then. It's been the most active one on PSO:BB at times and it was a completely friendly environment with no pressures and such.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zael on 2006-09-28 09:54 ]</font>

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-28 08:02, AngelLight wrote:


On 2006-09-28 07:15, Valkayree wrote:
My average day in every guild I had in FFXI went something like this...

"Hey can I have XXXXX? Can someone help me out? Can I get XXXXX? Does anyone have one of XXXXX they want to get rid of? Hey I'm doing Mission X-X can someone help me? I need XXXXX. Why won't anybody help us!" Need Need Need Need Need never Give.




May I ask where in this makes you think this is how a guild should be?

Again, this isn't what someone looking for a guild should be going for. Why subject yourself to this? And, yet....in the same breath....why would you blanket statement ALL guilds as this? This isn't a black or white world....nor society....so why start painting guilds this way when it isn't so?



Oh come on now, read the post, no blanket statements. Really, I've been in three guilds and all three were exactly the same. I'm sure there are good ones out there, but if they are I guess me and the character with the pearlsack never met up.

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-28 08:25, Ryogen wrote:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-09-28 05:45 ]</font>



I'd say Angel and I stated the subject perfectly well.

[/quote]

EDIT: I completely butchered the quote, sorry! ^_^

Yeah, you did put it well Ryogen and Angel. Good posts. I believe that most of us on this board are just anticipating the game because it will not be FFXI or WoW, and that is a good thing.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Valkayree on 2006-09-28 10:15 ]</font>

[anmato145]

Don't get me started on Guilds/Clans or w/e you wanna call it. FFXI was horrible when it came to guilds. If you werent a 1st in the guild, or a favorite, or an hardcore ass kisser you never got anything. I was main Tank in an upcoming HNM LS on diabolos server (Currently left 2 other great end game shells to help this one) But I was main tank for like 8 months, when it came down to doing Kirin, and King HNM's I seriously got overlooked when it came to drops all cause I never kissed ass to leads. I left the LS and they didn't do anything for months until they begged a different tank back who left for the same reason I did.

Theres guilds that work on that game like POISONED. and Papajohns. PJ's had a extremely fair lotting system. and the LS finnaly broke after completing everything FFXI had to offer, they did it so much it got boring and finaly broke a few days ago.

Well thats my $00.02 on guilds http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[AngelLight]

Heh.....I'll reserve the pizza jokes till later http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[anmato145]

hahaha, yea XD. But they honestly were a pretty awesome LS, broke due to boredom lmao

[AngelLight]

It's just the lifecycle of MMOs (or however you'd like to qualify this game)....eventually, that's all there is to see. Someday it will be PSU's turn. Here's hoping that day is far away.

[anmato145]

^Agreed. May PSU bring us many many many many months and years of Joy D:

[zofia]

On 2006-09-28 10:46, anmato145 wrote:
^Agreed. May PSU bring us many many many many months and years of Joy D:



Agreed!

[Roken]

Agreed