Question regarding story *SPOILERS*

[Gyser]

Alright. There's going to be spoilers from here on out so you have been warned.


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Has any news regarding Dark Falz/Force/Phallus being in PSU been announced anywhere?

I mean, he/she/it has been in every Phantasy Star game (With maybe the exception of Neis' text based game. Not sure on that one), so it makes sense that it would appear in PSU, however, with SeeD seemingly being the main bad-guy focus here, Falzy may have been pushed aside.

So has there been any news on our old friend?

[coomdoom]

there has been no news as far as I know on Falz.

[Sinue_v2]

Nothing, as far as I know.

Chances are that in the offline storyline mode, you'll mostly be dealing with SEED and the Endrum collective. Falz/Force/Phallus will play a very small role - if that. Probably hinted at - perhaps fought in a small pre-emptive teaser battle - but not much more than that. If he makes an appearance, it will most likely be in the online mode as the final - FINAL - boss.

Dark Force has always been a fairly shy and reclusive enemy. He manipulates people from a distance, hiding in his Pandora's Box and whispering evil intentions to them, so that they do his work for him. The only time he generally fights is when there's no other choice. After all - he's only released once every 1,000 years traditionally. It makes no sence to go on a blood spree and attract the attention of the Hunters, Espers, Guardians, ect who could stop him. The only time he directly took an active hand in events is durring PSIV, when the seal was so weakened that the Profound Darkness could send multiple DF's through in a very short time span. Even so... he still relied, at least partially, on Zio.

[Zedric]

So no one thinks the SEED is simply being manipulated by said evil mainpulator?

[Kyunji]

Same as above, but I just had to laugh at this:



with SeeD seemingly being the main bad-guy focus here


http://members.lycos.co.uk/idiosyntric/images/ffviii.jpg

We are all doomed.

[Dingo]

SeeD could definately hand SEED their asses on a silver platter.

[Zedric]

Dark Falz is like Dr. Wily.

"Oh, what's this?! A mysterious and unseen evil force is threate- ... oh, no, it's just Dark Falz again."

[Sinue_v2]

So no one thinks the SEED is simply being manipulated by said evil mainpulator?

I take it you didn't just read what I had written. -_-

If Dark Force is in PSU, then yes, he very well likely IS manipulating SEED.

Just like he manipulated Lassic - the Main Enemy of PSI.
Just like he manipulated the Earthlings/Mother Brain - the Main Enemies of PSII
Just like he manipulated Rulakair - the Main Enemy of PSIII
Just like he manipulated Zio - who died before he could become a main enemy in PSIV.
Just like he manipulated Dr. Osto Hoyle in PSO

Oh - and as for other games, Dark Force did not appear in:

Phantasy Star Gaiden
Phantasy Star Adventure
Phantasy Star Text Adventures (All 8 of them)
Phantasy Star: Memorial Drama CD (TTBOMK)

So that's 10 games and one Radio-ish production he's not in compaired to 8, possibly 9, that he is in. That's if you count his influence in Ep II, Ep III, and Ep IV of which he was the final boss of none of them. If not, then there's 14 games he's not in, and only 5 that he is.

The difference is - those 14 games are all side-games and expansions. The 5 games which he IS in, are all the core games of the series.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2006-08-22 05:06 ]</font>

[zandra117]

Falz cannot come back anymore, Dark Falz is part of a larger entity called The Profound Darkness. Dark Falz cannot be revived if the Profound Darkness is destroyed, however if a Dark Falz survives while the Profound Darkness is destroyed the Dark Falz is able to build up energy and sacrifice itself to create a new Profound Darkness.

Phantasy Star III (not PSO episode 3) takes place on a giant spaceship that escaped the Algol Star System when planet Palma was destroyed. A Dark Falz sneaks on board the spaceship. Phantasy Star III has four different endings. In all of the endings the Dark Falz doesn't get destroyed. Instead it vows to return in 1000 years then runs away and hides. In two of the four endings the spaceship lands on an earthlike planet with two moons. This planet is believed to be planet Ragol. In all of the episode 2 lobbies you can see the two moons of ragol outside the window. The ruins in PSO episode 1 is believed to be the spaceship Alisa III from PSIII. The Dark Falz at the end of PSO episode 1 is believed to be the same Dark Falz that wasn't destroyed in PSIII.

An additional thing to note about PSIII is that in all the other endings besides the 2 "Ragol Endings" Alisa III meets up with another spaceship that also escaped the Algol Star System called Neo-Palm.
It is speculated that because Neo-Palm never met with the Alisa III in the "Ragol Endings" it kept drifting through space and eventually landed and settled on planet Coral. Coral is the planet that Pioneer 1 and 2 came from in PSO. This would explain why the currency used in PSO is Meseta.
It is also speculated that the same scientists that worked in the lab that developed Nei, the first newman, escaped the Algol Star System on Neo-Palm and passed their data on to the scientists that created the newmans in PSO.

Phantasy Star IV (not PSO episode 4) takes place in the Algol Star System at about the same time as the Orakio/Layan war at the beginning of PSIII. At the end of PSIV all of the Dark Falzes except for the Dark Falz onboard Alisa III are destroyed and the Profound Darkness is destroyed.

In PSO episode 3 Dark Falz was not destroyed in episode 1 and it sacrifices itself to create a new Profound Darkness called the Great Shadow (Amplam Umbra). At the end of PSO episode 3 the Great Shadow is destroyed. Dark Falz and The Profound Darkness/Great Shadow can not return.

PSO episode 4 takes place before episode 3 and focuses it's story around WORKS and Project MOTHER rather than Dark Falz and the Profound Darkness.

(I copied and pasted what I wrote on sega's boards.)

[Saner]

well there is a soundtrack music in the game called SEED Hive. So there is a definitely a source of SEED of some kind. and the coolest would be Dark Force but it might be called something else.

then again, Star Fox was always about Andross being the surprise last boss, but Star Fox Assault had something else for a final evil threat.

so if SEED's homeworld involves a hive, then perhaps the final boss might be some form of an organic 'Mother Brain'?

but ya it's a theory.

[Saner]

On 2006-08-22 06:35, zandra117 wrote:


was there an official confirmation from Sega/Sonic Team that PSO is related to the classic Phantasy Stars and the Profound Darkness?

your explanations between the possible relations between the classics and PSO episodes do sound possible but unless this is how Sega intended it then they are in fact two separate timelines.

If this isn't official then they can bring back Dark Force as much as they want even if they call it something else, no one would complain as long as it looks cool. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[zandra117]

In PSIV there is a Planet called Ryucros that has an extremely elongated orbit, so much that it orbits around 2 stars, It only enters the algol system every 1000 years as a warning that Dark Force is about to awaken. The last of the Great Light beings exist on planet Ryucros. What if the other star system that Ryucross passes through is the Gurhal system and after the final destruction of the Profound Darkness there was an imbalance of power. This imbalance of light and darkness caused the Great Light beings that lived on Ryucross to become unstable and change into the SEED. Thus Ryucros becomes the SEED Hive.

That's my theory.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-08-22 06:56 ]</font>

[Parn]

I don't buy the Profound Darkness being destroyed bit, mostly because of the fact that the Great Light wasn't able to destroy it, yet some kid armed with a Laconian Sword with a fancy name and some memories is able to? I enjoyed Phantasy Star IV, don't get me wrong... I just refuse to believe in this idea, especially since the game never outright says it.

[zandra117]

On 2006-08-22 06:59, Parn wrote:
I don't buy the Profound Darkness being destroyed bit, mostly because of the fact that the Great Light wasn't able to destroy it, yet some kid armed with a Laconian Sword with a fancy name and some memories is able to? I enjoyed Phantasy Star IV, don't get me wrong... I just refuse to believe in this idea, especially since the game never outright says it.


Light cannot destroy darkness and darkness cannot destroy light, they are balanced powers. They have to depend on other people to defeat eachother. The Great Light depended on the main characters of the Phantasy Star games to destroy the Profound Darkness and the Profound Darkness depended on the people it manipulated to destroy the Great Light.

[Parn]

Agreed with the first statement when considering the whole and not just the entities themselves. I don't agree with the rest because if that were the case, they would have thrown minions at each other to begin with.

Edit: An addendum... the Great Light most certainly did NOT depend on the protectors to destroy The Profound Darkness. The Seal of Algo was placed to keep the darkness at bay... the Protectors' role was to simply kill Dark Force every 1000 years. The fact that the satellite Gaira was smashed into Palma resulting in a piece of the seal weakening was an unexpected factor.

Edit #2: Another addendum, the darkness did not depend on its minions to defeat the Great Light because the Great Light left long ago. The darkness' minions only purpose is to break the Seal of Algo by any means necessary.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-08-22 08:09 ]</font>

[hypersaxon]

Eh, everyone thought Lavos was defeated in Chrono Trigger, and then Chrono Cross proved that wrong.

So who knows, the Profound Darkness could still exist. In fact, there could be more than one of them.

[JasonWFD]

Writers can and will go retroactive. "You THOUGHT this happened, but this is what REALLY happened..." I hope to see Mr. Falz back in action, it just wouldn't be the same without the big ol' lug.

[Junker]

Seriously, although it seems essential that he be in it, i would be surprised and delighted if I saw him in PSU. Ah, the good ol' days.

[Sinue_v2]

Falz cannot come back anymore, Dark Falz is part of a larger entity called The Profound Darkness. Dark Falz cannot be revived if the Profound Darkness is destroyed, however if a Dark Falz survives while the Profound Darkness is destroyed the Dark Falz is able to build up energy and sacrifice itself to create a new Profound Darkness.

That is assuming that PSO and Phantasy Star are cononitically connected. There isn't a link between the two series outside of vauge references and similar archetecture.

Even so - the Profound Darkness and Dark Force are not two seperate beings. Dark Force can act independantly of the Profound Darkness - but he is only an extension of the Profound Darkness's power. So if the Profound Darkness is destoryed, Dark Force doesn't sacrifice itself to become a new PD - it IS the Profound Darkness.

Think of it in correlation to Christianity terms. There is a holy trinity of God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. They are seperate beings, and Jesus had his own identity outside of God - but all three are just different facets of the same being.


The Dark Falz at the end of PSO episode 1 is believed to be the same Dark Falz that wasn't destroyed in PSIII.

That's a possible conclusion which takes the assumption that the two series are connected. However, Sonic Team has said that they are not connected - so that theory is just that - a theory, because it's not supported officially. A tool to help fan-fiction, but not much else.


It is speculated that because Neo-Palm never met with the Alisa III in the "Ragol Endings" it kept drifting through space and eventually landed and settled on planet Coral. Coral is the planet that Pioneer 1 and 2 came from in PSO. This would explain why the currency used in PSO is Meseta.

Of course, it's also possible that Coral is the same planet as Copto - nicknamed AlisWorld from Phantasy Star Gaiden. The names certainly match up in a very PSO way (Poumn/Palma, ect.) That colony also uses Meseta. Not to mention that droids in PSO have a very utilitarian look - like evolutions of the Hapsby model rather than the Mother Brain created Wren/Demi models.

The kink in both theories, is the presence of Numans - of which were only present on Motavia in VERY short supply.


It is also speculated that the same scientists that worked in the lab that developed Nei, the first newman, escaped the Algol Star System on Neo-Palm and passed their data on to the scientists that created the newmans in PSO.

The Neo-Palm was a Palman ship - but Numans are uniquely Motavian. They were created by Mother Brain's subsystem called the BioLabs. I doubt the presence of a Numan project on Palma simply because of the manner in which Palma was destoryed. The Earthlings destroyed it because it was the seat of Palman government throughout the system - and most likely contained the largest part of any sort of military they might have had. It was the only major threat to Mother Brain should Algolians rebel against her. Numans were created as a form of super-soldier which could be quickly breed, controlled, and then just as quickly die. They were intended to destory the remaining weak and pampered Algolian society so that the planets would easier to conquer by the Earthlings.

Why bother putting a Numan project on Palma when they planned to destory it anyhow?

Not to mention that according to PSIV - Numen are not an ancient race. They were created by a joint project between Osto Hoyle and Jean Carlo Montegue. They also created Casts, at least, in their latest version of AI.


n PSO episode 3 Dark Falz was not destroyed in episode 1 and it sacrifices itself to create a new Profound Darkness called the Great Shadow (Amplam Umbra).

IIRC, Umbra was a guardian of the Great Shadow. The Great Shadow itself was the term used to describe the apperant collective conciousness of the GERM.


At the end of PSO episode 3 the Great Shadow is destroyed. Dark Falz and The Profound Darkness/Great Shadow can not return.

That is, of course, assuming that ONLY three Dark Force's were released in PSIV's time - and assuming that PSO and PS have a connection.


I don't buy the Profound Darkness being destroyed bit, mostly because of the fact that the Great Light wasn't able to destroy it, yet some kid armed with a Laconian Sword with a fancy name and some memories is able to?

Darkness cannot be destoryed as long as there is light. Light cannot be destoryed as long as there is Darkness. They're perpetual opposites, Yin and Yang. So long as the Great Light is around, so will at least some form of the Profound Darkness.

However, it should be noted that The Great Light and Profound Darkness were not intended to be singular "Gods". That was a change made in the Western version to help players (who were largely monotheistic) identify with the concept. In the Japanese version - it wasn't one being which split - but a whole race of spiritual beings (of which Ra-Faze and others on Ryukros were a part of) who engaged in a devistating Civil War. The Profound Darkness wasn't necessarily evil to begin with - but it became that way after aeons of hated and lust for revenge boiled and seethed from them in their dimensional prison. Eventually, they congeiled into a singular form - the Profound Darkness.


The Seal of Algo was placed to keep the darkness at bay... the Protectors' role was to simply kill Dark Force every 1000 years. The fact that the satellite Gaira was smashed into Palma resulting in a piece of the seal weakening was an unexpected factor.

The Protectors role was to remain vigilant in case the seal were ever breached. The millenial cycle didn't start (IIRC) until Lassic broke the seal by summoning Dark Falz. Once the seal was breached, it progressively got larger and allowed more and more of the PD's influence to seep through. When Palma was destoryed, it rended the tear in between the dimension wide open.


In PSIV there is a Planet called Ryucros that has an extremely elongated orbit, so much that it orbits around 2 stars

I don't recall seeing anything in PSIV or the Compendium which alludes to Ryukros being shared by two solar systems. I don't think the orbital map present in the game supports that idea either.

[hypersaxon]

Rykros follows a similar path to a comet, meaning that every 1,000 years, it comes into Algol, then it leaves and goes someplace else. That was explained during the game.

So seeing as it's not in Algol for very long, it must have a very long orbital path that spans far from the galaxy.

[ShadowDragon28]

My theory is that Seeed *is* the Profound Darkness "reborn", and that the Gurhal Star System (Gu-rA-Ru , switch up the Katakana it spells Ar Gu Ru i.e. Al-Gul a.k.a. "Algol ") so perhaps Gurhal is a re-formed Algol Star System (re-formed by the great Light perhaps?)

The three planets names are very similar to the names of the classic planets: Parum (Pa-Ru Mu can be transliterated as PALM as in " Palma ", Motoob ( Mo-Tuu-Bu reminicent of "Motabia"/"Motavia", amd Neu Deiz (sp?) Nuu-Dae-Zu seems like "New DeZo" similar to "Dezo"/"Dezoris."


Just a theory, thouh the game probably would not mention any such thing cannonically....

[ColonD]

Ah, word tricks. ^_^
I saw that the planets were the same design, so I was wondering if the seal would be a shared design.
Or, when I saw the first few videos of the game, I swear it seemed more like a gun of doom, or some kind of street cleaner/purifier. ><

[Sinue_v2]

It's just a play-on-words in reference to the originals, nothing else IMO.

Palma (or similar planets) has been called:
Palm/Parma/Palma/Poumn/Parum

Motavia (or similar planets) have been called:
Mota/Motabia/Motavia/Muut/Motoob

Dezolis (or similar planets) have been called:
Dezo/Dezolis/Dezoris/Dittz/Nudaiz

Gurhal, as mentioned before, is a play on Algol. However, Ragol is obviously another play on words. Despite being a planet, and not a solar system, it still represents basically the whole of the Phantasy Star Online universe.

Coral was the name of the PSO home planet, yet it's most likely a play on Copto, the colony planet located outside of the Algol solar system in which Phantasy Star Gaiden takes place.

Now, honestly, I think that if PSU would have any hope of becoming story-line connected to Phantasy Star - it would have to be preqel to the main series. There's a pretty huge gap of time from between when the Great Light sealed the Profound Darkness to the start of Phantasy Star I. Ra-Faze mentions that Guardians were placed on each of the planets - but that they eventually forgot their tasks. It could be possible that PSU takes place in some far-far distant past, but it would be a pretty big storyline leap for Sonic Team to make - and I doubt they'd do that.

PSU, like PSO, simply makes some very curious references to the previous series in the franchise - but they are still stand-alone games disconnected from a storyline perspective.

[Nai_Calus]

It has in fact been stated that PS and PSO are not linked. Theories attempting to link them are cute, but not correct in the slightest.

Episode III does not exist, particularily Endu's ending, as it directly contradicts what we know of the first two episodes. Even Episode 2's linking quest to Episode 3, Blue Star Memories, can be used as evidence against Endu's ending's explanation of things. It's ludicrous retconning made up to explain a character someone thought was a really cool idea. (Personally it smacks of bad fanfic to me, heh. That's a classic crappy plot device for Mary Sue fic, isn't it? Lil' Miss Sue is the polar opposite of the big baddy and is destined to defeat it and is the Only One(Wait, so then how the hell did, say, Ino'lis pull it off? OH NOES))

...Yeah, don't get me started about this kind of thing. >_>;;;

And where the hell has it ever been stated that Rykros orbits more than one star? Or are we back in the realm of annoying theories? Unless Algol is a binary star that's not even really possible. Furthermore a 1,000 year orbit period wouldn't be enough to get between two stars distant enough to both have inhabited solar systems where the inhabitants aren't aware of the other system; an object within our own solar system, Sedna, has an orbital period of around 12,050 years! Pokes along too, since it's so far distant. Even objects with a shorter orbital period than Rykros is supposed to have are still nice and poky - 2003 UB313(Xena) has an orbital period of around 557 1/2 years and still pokes along at around 3.436 km/s.

But yeah, a 1,000 year orbital period isn't going to get a planet to another star. O_o;

I still want to know what they were smoking with that bit about EpIV. How the hell can Montague create HIMSELF? Mmm, crack.

[Sinue_v2]

Well, it is at least remotely possible that Algol could be a binary system. After all, Phantasy Star Gaiden eludes to the point that there is another solar system close to Algol - or at least, close enough to reach with the technology available in PSI's time since it was founded by Alissa.

But then again.. that doesn't mean anything except that there is another solar system with inhabitable planets moderatly close to Algol. It neither confirms or contradicts the idea of Ryukros being shared between two solar system. Since the games don't say it's shared, and none of the developers have eluded to it being shared, then you have to take the stance that it's not shared in a binary system.

And that's only if you accept the side-games as cannonitical. A lot of people don't.

[ShadowDragon28]

Heere a great site:

http://www.camineet.net/camineet/theories/

I agree with those theories, even if not "cannonical" or directly stated.

IMO, PSO had definite subtle and/or obvious connections to earlier PS games. There where way, way too many references, implied factors of the story, etc that seemed to me to be more that just "nostalgic"(sp) aspects....

PSU seem like it definately has some subtle "threads" of connections to PSO and earlier games in the PS series. I for one *appreciate* them, nostagia or not.

[Emrald]

I personally am hoping for Darkfalz in this game....or at least Olga flow....I heard they do mention Red Rinc Rico in PSU....dun dun dun!....I smell a block buster!

[Saner]

I don't think the Rykros superbeings are 'Great Lights'. they are something else.

[Sinue_v2]

Heere a great site:

http://www.camineet.net/camineet/theories/

I agree with those theories, even if not "cannonical" or directly stated.

Ehhh... I respect Mike for knowing his stuff about PS - but he's got some really out-there views and is too bull-headed to change his mind even when he's pretty obviously wrong.


IMO, PSO had definite subtle and/or obvious connections to earlier PS games. There where way, way too many references, implied factors of the story, etc that seemed to me to be more that just "nostalgic"(sp) aspects....


Certainly seems that way huh? It's what I thought too for a long time, that despite "offical" statements to the contrary - someone inside Sonic Team was pulling strings to deliberately make storyline links. I figured eventually they'd have a massive quest - or series of quests - which would reveal everything.

Never happened though. Not even on the eve of Phantasy Star Universe's release will they admit to trying to connect the storylines. Why? Well, because, they were telling the truth when they said the two are not connected. Either someone inside Sonic Team is increadibly stupid and uncreative - or they're increadibly ingenious by getting us all to discuss and argue theories just like the community has been doing with the original games for years.


I don't think the Rykros superbeings are 'Great Lights'. they are something else.

No, they are not the Great Light. They are members of a race which we have come to know as the Great Light. That race has spread throughout the galaxy, and possibly died off - leaving only Ra-Faze and the others on Ryukros to stand vigil over the Profound Darkness.

[Arias]

To be honest I don't think any kind of SEED/Seed/Dark Force/... will have anything to do with PSU.
In the interviews the question (Are there any connections to the previous PS game(s)) was always answered a NO.
There might be a new evil, but I sincerely doubt it will have anything to do with the other Evils.
It IS a different universe too

[Emrald]

not quite, explain meseta currency, explain casts and newmans, how did they know humans created newmans? and god damnit why do the ships look like the pioneer ships then from pso! HMMMM! They are trying to throw us off track from like going OMG OMG and emailing sega for inside info on the story line! I mean a long time ago someone mentioned red ring rico mentioned in PSU...It wouldn't make sense...why not just make it a totaly differnt name then phantasy star if it will NOT have old connections?

[Earthsunderer]

Well, in almost every Final Fantasy game, there is a Cid, moogles, chocobos, some ultimate sword called the Excalibur, nefarious beings called Omega Weapons, a currency called Gil, airships and other stuff, and still, the game's arent connected together with the sole exception of Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2.
So you can use names of previous games without them having any connections at all beside a similar gameplay and some trademarks. Names and systems are just that, trademarks that distinguish the games from each another.

[Saner]

ya it's basically fanservice and it's all for the good of the game.

but some people go too far and start claiming there are connections between the story timelines.

even Sonic Team itself said that PSU is a whole different 'universe'/timeline/etc.