Flanking as a game mechanic

[JasonWFD]

As mentioned here (http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=1570&mode=&order=0&thold=0), there will be in-game rewards for tactical manuvering and teamwork. If you attack an enemy from behind, you have a %100 chance to hit.

Let's discuss the implications of this feature. Any strategists out there that have some interesting ideas?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JasonWFD on 2006-08-24 18:27 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JasonWFD on 2006-08-24 18:28 ]</font>

[Foxix]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif thats gonna be hard to do while typing

[DizzyDi]

Thats why you plan stuff out before hand. I love it. Adds a little more OOMPH to fighting rather than just running up and mashing on attack.

[Emrald]

For you...I'm a fast typer so It will be easy...and plus you could try to do it ahead of time

[Kupi]

This really gives you a bonus to something that most of the good players were doing anyway. Attacking from the side was something I'd always aimed to do because, y'know, you don't get hit back.

[Phaze37]

That's awesome! Anything that rewards skillfull play is a good thing in my book. And it's not like you'll necessarily have to plan it out beforehand or try to type in the middle of battle in order to take advantage of it. Just keep an eye out for an opportunity to slash the enemy in the rear. Unfortunately, it probably only works with melee weapons, which won't help me much as a Ranger.

[Foxix]

I am a fast typer as well but for every key you press thats a precious moment you have to take your hand away from the controls.

[Sinue_v2]

Strafing an enemy is skillful tactics? I thought that was just common sence?

I hope enemies are a bit smarter and more robust than they were in PSO - because the ability to strafe around enemies will make the game far too easy otherwise.

[DizzyDi]

On 2006-08-24 19:01, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Strafing an enemy is skillful tactics? I thought that was just common sence?

I hope enemies are a bit smarter and more robust than they were in PSO - because the ability to strafe around enemies will make the game far too easy otherwise.



Its been seen that enemies flip away from attacks sometimes and perform various other sorta manuevers so yeah, enemies are smarter and more robust.

[Kakashi_Xero]

have a friend over to type for you, ive done that b4, ROFL

[phunk]

I'm glad the developers are putting in things like this, gives another dimension and excitement to battle. Its going to be really fun going in there with tactics thought out.

[Axios-]

A lot of online RPGs are more about time than skill to determine how 'good' you are. Any little thing that can tilt the scale toward skill like this is good in my book.

As far as tactics go, I'd imagine that many rangers will shoot as the hunters approach the enemy, and if the ranger can make the enemy flinch or pause in any way, that'll provide a good opportunity for the hunters.

[Jife_Jifremok]

I wonder just how necessary flanking would actually be. Well, I imagine it'd be really handy for those with low ATA (it actually makes Beasts seem a bit stronger now), and it'd possibly encourage better teamwork. I just hope there won't be too many parties being anal retentive about it, since there are times when a simple frontal assault is good enough. I also hope this won't make for repetitive strategies, strategies that are used over and over and over again to make combat even more repetitive than it'd normally be,

[Kers]

I didn't translate the blog, did it mention flanking? Because flanking woud be attacking from the sides. Having the ability to attack a monsters back with 100% accuracy doesn't imply flanking.

[Ryna]

Something to keep in mind is that several monsters have front and rear attacks. For example, a typical "goat-like" enemy can ram you or kick with its rear legs.



On 2006-08-24 20:19, Kers wrote:
I didn't translate the blog, did it mention flanking? Because flanking woud be attacking from the sides. Having the ability to attack a monsters back with 100% accuracy doesn't imply flanking.


The translation mentioned "attacking from behind".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2006-08-24 20:21 ]</font>

[Kers]

Oo, that'll be more fun! I'll be a little more cautious when sneaking up on a boss like Gol Dolba, might rip one in my face for 2k.

[kazuma56]

Well i'm usually good at making strategies but in the case of PSU, I think that i'll just be watchful and take the opportunity if it arrives, unless said otherwise.

[Sgt_Shligger]

THis will make my job easier. . . as if being a ranger won't be simple enough, I can walk up behind things while my team fights.

As rude as it sounds, teams that don't like to talk are excellent distractions >_> If there's no planning, than I simply go and do without asking anyone. . . http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SgtShligger on 2006-08-25 02:40 ]</font>

[Jeral]

Will be easily done, Even on the 360, USB keyboard hooked up, have it on ma lap with my joypad in hand, I can type over 120-130 words a minute, shouldnt be a problem, And as someone else said just plan ahead, it'll just be like when people automatically run close to the hildebears then make em attack, go back some paces, combo and it is delayed in chasing you ect, Will be a bit hard at first but after a week or so it'll be easy.

[AngelLight]

well as I stated in another post, this is going to bring normal MMO tactics into PS for the first time.

As far as communication, just use voice communication for best results. Worked wonders on PSOBB....

A typical party tactic I see would be like this (this is for trash mobs, not bosses as they require unique ideas for each one):

Hunter #1: Main Tanking, basically keeping the biggest and baddest thing you're fighting under control and its back to the rest of the party.

Hunter #2: Protecting the rangers and forces from the adds or the rest of the original mobs you're fighting.

Ranger #1: Using a shotgun with frost bullets (or electric bullets depending on circumstances), sole purpose is for crowd control....freezing targets, shocking targets, maybe even paralysis or confusion. After the fight is stable and under control, just spreading out damage or switch to high power dmg.

Ranger #2: Single Target High Dmg Output, a rifle or launcher attacking the MT's target he or she is tanking.

Force #1: Primary Healer, Secondary Nuker

Force #2: Primary Nuker, Secondary Healer

Again, there's nothing to stop you from just kiting mobs all over the place...a common tactic in PSO. Also, nothing here says that this tactic I gave above is the only way to do things. However, I feel that what I have listed is sound and gives everyone a primary focus in a battle which can lead to efficient victories and rapid progress.

If the game is going to rate you on tactics then you may have to think simular to what I'm thinking here...we'll see.

[Saner]

On 2006-08-24 18:33, Foxix wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif thats gonna be hard to do while typing



its easy to type with one hand and do actions with the other. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

the art of using a keyboard and controller is a flexible skill. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Dirty_Filthy]

I really think this changes little compared to how it was in PSO, I would always attack from behind when possible only to be able to limit incoming damage while using a weapon with long animations. From what I've seen in videos, the aggro from enemies in PSU seems to work the same as well, meaning that who ever is closest is the one they try to attack, making any sort of advanced tactics overkill.

Really all this changes is the tactic we've all learned to use actually does something other than make up for some less than optimal weapon animations.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dirty_Filthy on 2006-08-25 11:06 ]</font>

[vitius137]

On 2006-08-25 07:24, Saner wrote:

its easy to type with one hand and do actions with the other. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



o_O

(on another note) I don't think this will be too big a change from what we've been doing so far, but it will at least give us something to do besides hack and slash. Hopefully they'll give us more tactical things like that.

[Valkayree]

Hmm, 360 = voice chat = easy setup for flanking attacks. Have fun typing and pre-planning guys.

[kazuma56]

heh, unless enemies prove to have some "advanced" A.I over PSO, I think most "veteran" PSO players won't need to pre-plan at all, and if the beta is any indication of how A.I is, it's not going to require that much pre-planning at all or at least until your close to a boss.

[Roken]

But many of the missions played on the beta versions seemed to be lower ranking missions.... unless theres someone that played an S or A rank mission and the enemy A.I. still seemed to make no difference ?

[Saner]

with 14 bosses at least one of them is going to school your party to kindgom come. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Roken]

On 2006-08-25 14:06, Saner wrote:
with 14 bosses at least one of them is going to school your party to kindgom come. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Alisha]

how is this anything new to advanced players?
pso was basically about freezing then killing monsters. if anything it enhances rangers role.

[Fleece]

On 2006-08-24 20:19, Kers wrote:
I didn't translate the blog, did it mention flanking? Because flanking woud be attacking from the sides. Having the ability to attack a monsters back with 100% accuracy doesn't imply flanking.





Well flanking just means going around, In a battle it'd be easier to scream Flank them than to shout "Go the fuck around to their back" in a warzone. And i Believe you got Flank confused with the Pincer Movement.

[tank1]

Im just gonna shoot stuff and if i end up behind the monster and hitting it in the back then yay me.

[Foxix]

On 2006-08-25 07:24, Saner wrote:


On 2006-08-24 18:33, Foxix wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif thats gonna be hard to do while typing



its easy to type with one hand and do actions with the other. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

the art of using a keyboard and controller is a flexible skill. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



This is why I think Saner is a woman. Look at it this way, this is coming from someone that can multitask. Who can multitask? Women thats who.

I don't really understand what pincer/flank is anymore http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I will adapt to typeing though. I will just use the oppostite hand I am using at the time. So lets say I am shooting something I will just use my left hand, if I am running I will use my right hand http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Authenticate]

I can multitask and I've got male parts. Does that mean secretly, deep down, my soul is that of a woman? Or maybe those sexist generalizations are old and outdated? Or maybe penguins are plotting to take over the world with the help of the frog's battlecruser armada?

[Foxix]

Authenticate, I would go with the first, but as not to offend anyone and the fact that I like the second option better I would choose the second.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Foxix on 2006-08-25 16:12 ]</font>

[vitius137]

I read in a magazine that women are mooch better at multitasking while men are better at logic puzzlez or something. I dunno, don't ask me XP

(still have no clue what gender Saner is, but for now it doesn't seem important) *cancels flower delivery to Saner's house* XD XD XD XD XD

EDIT: Seriously though, for now I like to think of Saner as an entity, a soul so powerful it is beyond gender and human form. I'm probably just insane tho ^_^

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitius137 on 2006-08-25 16:52 ]</font>

[ColonD]

I assume Saner is a girl, just because she seems girlish.
Just does.
In any case, I am praying hard that the enemys in some areas will be really, Difficult!
(W/ rewards would be cool too, but I still would fight them.)

[Kyunji]

My vote is that Saner is actually a young girl (think 12-15) desperately trying to convince people that she is a college graduate and failing in a very hardcore way.

But that's just my opinion.

As for the whole "back shot" idea, maybe. It seems like it would be most useful for Rangers, particularly if it's possible to sneak up on enemies (i.e. get fairly close to them without them automatically detecting you, regardless of their relative orientation, as in PSO). It's a nice bonus, but I imagine it won't be applicable to most situations (nine times out of ten, you can get the exact same result with a head-on melee attack).

[vitius137]

say what you will, I'm still sticking with my genderless entity theory. Perhaps Saner is the last boss in PSU >.<

OK, if I seriously had to guess right now I would probably say Saner is a girl because most guys aren't as optimistic and nice as Saner is. However if Saner is a guy then he's one in a million. But you know, entity theory not lookin so bad, huh?

[Foxix]

why does Saner get all the attention? She's always psoting opinion as fact http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif nobody loves me

[vitius137]

It's ok, I love you Foxix. (not in that way, lol)

There's alway at least 1 person on every forum that (nearly) everyone likes. I have found that people with Saner's personality usually aquire this position. Don't feel too bad for being left out http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

As for posting opinion as fact, well I guess Saner likes to post the most optimistic responses to cheer people up. Although they probably aren't true.

[Foxix]

From now on I am Saner version 2 @_@ love me @_@

Yeah I have noticed that too. Fortunately for me I am like Saner in real life in that everyone loves me so HA! I win at life W00~

wow talk about off topic

[Sinue_v2]

t'll just be like when people automatically run close to the hildebears then make em attack, go back some paces, combo and it is delayed in chasing you ect

I always thought that was a poor tactic. I've often found it quicker, and easier (expecially in the case of Hildetorrs) to simply equip a decent gun and hit them with repeated normal attacks. It juggles the Hildes so that they can't move, and are essencially paralized. (Their damage animation is about the exact duration of a normal handgun shot recovery)

[vitius137]

On 2006-08-25 18:09, Foxix wrote:
From now on I am Saner version 2 @_@ love me @_@

Yeah I have noticed that too. Fortunately for me I am like Saner in real life in that everyone loves me so HA! I win at life W00~

wow talk about off topic



OMG! a newer and better version of Saner never seen before!!! must... resist urge to worship >.<

[Foxix]

It's ok my son, you may worship me for I am Saner v. 2

Unless beast ATA is really that bad I doubt that attacking from behind will really be that important though. I could see if it maybe did some additional damage, then it would be worthwhile http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/pizza.gif

[JasonWFD]

How did my thread about backstabbing mobs turn into a discussion about the 6 Million Dollar Saner? I fail. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[vitius137]

no, you don't phail. Saner just always succeeds.

[NightHour13]

What the hell is all this talk about that weird person. You guys lost it. Watch him be a 90 year old creep who collects hello kitty merchandise.

Listen, I'll let you all in on the truth. Saner is a cross breeded creature between a duck-billed platypus and a hamburger. Gender? hah, we totally forgot to throw that in when we created Saner. For years, Saner struggled to be normal - but in the end it was all for nothing. We had to jettison it out into space. What you see in it's posts are nothing but a faded memory.

[vitius137]

How can a cross breed between a duck-billed platypus and a hamburger type? I'm still going with my genderless entity theory gosh darn it >.<

[Foxix]

Why are we talking about Saner? it/she is dead and I am all that is left now... version 2. The 6.2 million dollar version. In other words the version you should actually be talking about because I am so awesome.

[ShinMaruku]

Now you see if this was a true MMORPG with pitbosses then you cna outflank and MAU rush them bitches...

[Sev]

On 2006-08-25 21:27, ShinMaruku wrote:
Now you see if this was a true MMORPG with pitbosses then you cna outflank and MAU rush them bitches...



I assume your talking about RF Online...

But what in the hell is a MAU rush?

Back attacks should be fun though. It really benefits characters that wanna use weapons with faster attack rates like Daggers and Claws when you think about it. Alot of the Photon arts for those weapons give off alot strikes, the more strikes you have, the more chances you have to land or miss an attack. With this, if you're behind, your Photon Art will succeed completely and that can really destroy a mob.

I always hated how enemies blocked attacks from behind anyway.

[zandra117]

On 2006-08-25 19:39, JasonWFD wrote:
How did my thread about backstabbing mobs turn into a discussion about the 6 Million Dollar Saner? I fail. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



We can make it faster, stronger, better than before.
http://camineet.net/camineet/ps3cast/miun.gif

[tank1]

Why bother id rather leave it dead and have the cash.