Like RA in PSO? You won't here

[LoneVandal]

I will save oldskool RA fans a lot of potential frustration by letting you all know that right now RA is the worst class in PSU by a large margin.

Why?

1) Guns require you to spend massive amounts of PP to do any kind of damage, with or without elemental bullets. FO can freeze enemies too btw, it doesn't make you a unique snowflake (lol get it freeze + snow I am a komedy king).

2) Even if you go all out and spend PP like a madman, swapping weapons as each empties and never waiting for natural regen (which is about 1/5 the rate you spend PP or less), you do less damage than HU and FO. No, elemental bullets do not raise your damage considerably vs. enemy element types. You get maybe 5-10 bonus damage per shot on monsters that have 1,000 hp or more. You still do Phys damage and it still gets negated by enemy dfp, unlike FO techs.

3) Even while spending PP like a madman and doing less damage than HU and FO, you're spending roughly 4x as much PP as they are to do it, and thus 4x as much money to refill your weapons between missions. You won't see FO and HU complaining about PP refill costs because reletive to RA they are ignorable. When you empty your 800-1,000 PP rifle completely just killing the Dragon, you just spent 100 meseta of your 700 reward for S-Rank completion. Just in the boss fight. Now add what you spent just getting to the boss, which gets worse and worse as you get higher in level, not better, because monster HP increases outstrip your damage increases by a large margin.

EXAMPLE TIME!

I don't need to explain why HU is more effecient, you should all be aware already that they don't spend PP to do normal attacks which hit harder than RA guns, and PAs are just bonus damage / crowd control.

But wait, FO require PP to attack too! Yup, and FO are great at it, they can spend 10 PP and do a Zonde that hits 4 enemies for 100 damage each.

RA spend 8 PP with Dual Pistols to do 50 damage to 2 enemies with the same reletive gear and level. Which can also be lowered to 20 per hit vs. high dfp enemies no matter what element you're using. Same with Rifles, they do 100 per hit, lowered to 40 a hit vs. high dfp. They also cost 8 pp to fire, and regen 11 pp every 5 seconds or so (same as dual handguns). Oh and if you want to make an RA and use Spears, 1 Knife, or 1 Saber, you'll be more money effecient, at the cost of continuing to be a gimp because you can't use B rank in any of those weapons, and are reduced to a wannabe Hunter with no L11+ PAs.

Get the picture? This is at level 20, which is fairly deep into the game's content available at this point. The only content item I've seen that might alleviate some of this problem is an Arm Unit listed on PSUPedia that is described as "raising gun PP effeciency", which is not available online right now afaik. Even then, you'll probably still be spending more PP to do less damage than the other 2 classes.

Anyways, I just want all you RA fans to be aware of this before you jump in and go "WTF IS THIS CRAP?" a week later like I am right now. I just rerolled a HUcast and oh god is it more fun.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-12 13:41 ]</font>

[Axios-]

I look forward to being a Ranger still.

[tank1]

Nothing will deter from being a Ranger this justs makes it more of a challenge.

[Ether]

You forgot the part where the hunters spend 500 meseta on 10 monomates after the same mission. Rangers are a little low on the damage side, but being able to paralyze an entire room of enemies is extremly helpful to the team

[ShadowNeo]

I was a Ranger in PSO, and I love being a ranger now.

I must be crazy.

[Dre_o]

Wow.....you didn't consider what the future has to hold, did you?

[MoonSblaise]

This topic will only make me more proud of every ranger i see XD Plus i don't see how a week of experimenting with an RA in the early stages of the game can show too much... Theres alot more to be learnt yet it seems >_>

I love you Tank1 XD

[tank1]

Ok Dave dont go all gay on me now. Back on topic im sure if you stick with it the Ranger will be as fun as any other class.

[A2K]

Funny, I'm a level 16 ranger and I haven't had much trouble at all. I think it's because of my regular party... it's not that they're particularly accomodating, but it's convenient having a bunch of meat shields keeping the enemies from swatting you around.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-09-12 13:49 ]</font>

[ShadowNeo]

You forget the one great benefit of being a ranger.

In a good party, how many times do the enemy get close enough to hit me?

Never.

[Alisha]

i've seen videos that contradict what you just said. also unlike hunters rangers dont have to craft elemental weapons. i saw one video where the rangers damage went up by 100 points when she chnaged the element on her gun. maybee the levels of you barret arts are to low?

[watashiwa]

I don't believe a Ranger's job, in the first place, was to out damage or kill everything in the room. I've always viewed Rangers as a support class.. You can support the others by doing some secondary damage or using elemental attacks to weaken the enemies. (All of them seem to be DoTs except for ice, which freezes the enemies in the room..)

If you're really concerned about being able to out damage everybody else, then yeah, rerolling a hunter is probably the best move you made. (Although I still think forces are better for damage..)

Another thing that kind of proves that Ranger is not designed for massive damage is the fact that Forces can use bows online. If anyone's looked at the stats on the B rank bow compared to the B rank rifle, you'll see the bow has a higher ATP of about ~35-40 or so.. (The Parum B-Rank Rifle has 255ATP and the Parum B-Rank Bow is like 290+ .. I forget the exact number..)

Yesterday, while I was playing with Endjoy (who is a LV 29 Female Newman Force), her B-Rank ice bow was outdamaging my B-Rank ice rifle vs. those little fire worms in Shikon by about, uh, 15-20 points, I think.. That's really shitty, if you think about it. I'm a LV 25 Female Human Ranger and I've even got the +32 ATP slot item equipped into my armor, yet a LV 29 Female Newman Force without the slot item and who's ice bow special is lower than my ice rifle special, is still out damaging me...

It doesn't make me mad, but it does seem pretty lame. But I think it's a bit of a tradeoff, maybe, as said with Rangers not really taking much damage at all. Rangers can stay far behind and just pelt away at enemies without getting hit. They can even switch to melee when monsters are stunned or knocked down by the other players, to get some good licks in, then back off for some more firing.

It isn't very hard, so far, to play a ranger on a team and take entirely no damage in a mission if you are quick on your feet. Hunters will usually take damage almost all the time.. and sometimes forces, too, when they have to run in and cast something or have to run in and play medic for a dying party member.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-12 14:02 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

Anyone who gets hit as a Ranger sucks at playing it. Equip dual-pistol, hold the strafe button and back away while firing away with ice bullets until your PP runs out 3 minutes later, spend 100 meseta refilling, repeat ad inifinitum.

If you're really bad at Hunter you can get hit a lot, sure. If you do things like wait for enemies to commit to an attack, then move to the side and hit them, you tend to use a lot less healing items. Also, healing items drop like candy, they aren't a substantial meseta drain.

Alisha : Show me that video, and RA still have to craft weapons because right now that is the only way to get 5* guns without doing A rank missions (which requires like L30 probably to actually hurt anything in), and even if you did A rank missions weapon drop rates are abysmal in PSU.

[Saiffy]

From what I've seen from Sodaboy's movies, he's usually meleeing anyways, RAs don't ALWAYS have to use guns. I'd say fuck that shit if RAs couldn't use single saber/dagger, or whatever other melee weapons RAs can use.

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-12 14:01, LoneVandal wrote:
Anyone who gets hit as a Ranger sucks at playing it. Equip dual-pistol, hold the strafe button and back away while firing away with ice bullets until your PP runs out 3 minutes later, spend 100 meseta refilling, repeat ad inifinitum.


The way you explained how to play a ranger is NOT how to play one. Rangers have higher ATP and DEF for a reason.. as well as the ability to equip melee weapons. You should carry a mixture of both firearms and one or two melee weapons to offset bullet usage.

I can play entire missions without having to fill up. And, for the missions where I do have to fill up, there's usually a PP refill station near the end of it or in the middle somewhere.

I almost never have to go back outside, unless I am soloing an area with monsters around my level or we're fighting monsters quite a few levels above our level.

[LoneVandal]

You know Wata, I wouldn't mind the lower average damage as much if we weren't spending 4x or more PP to do it.

[Alisha]

im curious if the RA+FO extra class will have access to bows. and even though the force was out damaging you on a per hit basis she probally spammed 0's from missing the ice special more than you did.


can you put 2 dot's on a monster and how strong are the dot's? i bet rangers can kite monsters http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[LoneVandal]

I use the best Spear, Rifle, and Dual Handguns I can afford. I use the spear a lot, because sadly enough a C rank Spear does more damage than my B rank Rifle. I play missions like you do, but if you're going to rely on melee for the majority of your damage you might as well just be a Hunter since you're playing like a weak one anyway.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-12 14:12 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

can you put 2 dot's on a monster and how strong are the dot's? i bet rangers can kite monsters http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif


Yes, I described how you kite monsters in this. You hold Strafe and back up while firing on the move. It is pretty easy, but appearently the WRONG way to play a Ranger according to Wata.

[watashiwa]

You seem to have given up on Ranger pretty quickly. I have no doubt that with crafting, or released items, strength increasing, or as Alisha said.. perhaps an expert type of Ranger (like the RA+FO), they might be really ass kicking.

I think they're far from worthless.. and, yeah, at the moment their damage output is weaker than that of a Hunter or Force, but I still think they're an awesome class.. and have potential to be awesome in the future..

The content in this game is very very very limited right now.. what you can do with a class is also very very very limited.. think about future ranger only equipment.. or items.. stuff like that.. you don't know what's in store for the future, as the other guy said!

I'm going to stick to mine.. if they turn out to suck, I don't mind playing an underdog.. (Which is why I also have plans to make a SERIOUS Male Cast Force..)

[watashiwa]

It is pretty easy, but appearently the WRONG way to play a Ranger according to Wata.



I never said that was the wrong way to kite a monster. I said how you described to play a ranger, as if that's ALL they did, was wrong.

You don't just go into rooms, emptying out your dual pistols completely, and leaving to go refill every 3 minutes.. that's bullshit.. lol. You ARE a horrible ranger if that's your entire tactic of playing..

[Kaply]

Your comparisons are too simplistic. It doesn't really factor in damage over time. You only take in damage per hit. You also don't factor in some of the attack differences for the three classes. RAs are be able to hit multiple targets on one creature whereas FO and HU cannot.

edit: mixing up a bit about multiple targets. Meant that RAs can hit one target multiple times in one attack, such as shot weapon. RA and HU can hit multiple target points on one creature, but FO cannot.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaply on 2006-09-12 14:28 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

Actually, FO *can* hit different targets on a creature.. just not at the same time.. FO can use a bow and use the FPS/Sniper mode just like a RA can to hit weak points.

[drmcst45]

I'm still going with RA because I like their ability to just sit back and tag enemies collecting the EXP. I just hate on missing out all the Meseta/Rare drops =0..





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: drmcst45 on 2006-09-12 14:25 ]</font>

[A2K]

On 2006-09-12 14:25, drmcst45 wrote:
I'm still going with RA because I like their ability to just sit back and tag enemies collecting the EXP. I just hate on missing out all the Meseta/Rare drops =0..


The game's random loot distribution settings might help with that.

[LoneVandal]

Doesn't help with Meseta, that goes to whoever grabs first. Which is my entire problem with this class. Wata you dont' get it. I don't mind doing less damage than others, because yes, we're less risk than other classes.

WHAT I CANNOT FUCKING STAND IS PAYING 4X MESETA OR MORE WHILE BEING THE LOWEST DAMAGE

[Ether]

Forces spend just as much in PP as rangers do. Hunters have to buy mates. Its balanced

[Itsuki]

I think what makes rangers unique is their versatility. You can do everything that a HU can do, albeit, not quite as well. You can get elemental and status effects like a FO, albeit, not as well. And your AoE and tagging ability is far above both other classes (which helps with the status effect part).

-When melee is needed, they can do melee pretty well. Saber / mechgun is one of the best "close range" combinations.
-On targets that move fast or that aren't good to melee, they can deal ranged damage well. And their range is far above that of techs (though bow still outranges)
-They have great spike damage. When you need something to die fast, they can deal reliable damage fast from far away. I don't know what you're talking about with the elemental bullets. If you're using the right element and your bullets are of decent level, it should nearly double your damage. Meaning melee elemental PAs are about the only thing that should be outdamaging you, and you don't need to be close like they do.
-Their hit rate is faster than FO, meaning you can get more status effects faster.
-They're mobile while attacking at range with most weapons. FO have to stand quite still, and do that stupid animation before the spell goes off. Many times the monster can move out of range or hit you while you're trying to cast.
-Higher HP/DFP than FO makes them easier on your rank. XD

EDIT: And for the above post, FO do use alot of PP too. And if you're playing a RA right, you shouldn't use much more than a FO. But technically, a RA can empty itself 3x as fast as a FO.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-09-12 14:48 ]</font>

[RoboKy]

Remove the elemental bullets?

[Wubbie]

"The way you explained how to play a ranger is NOT how to play one. Rangers have higher ATP and DEF for a reason.. as well as the ability to equip melee weapons. You should carry a mixture of both firearms and one or two melee weapons to offset bullet usage." Quoted for Emphsis... I attempted to explain this to Mech inside of the IRC, but no one seemed to listen... You guys are playing Ranger wrong, it is in no way the worst class in PSU.

[Valkayree]

Thanks for your opinion OP, but although RA is classically the worst class to play early on, it becomes one of the best post lvl 100 in PSO, so I am sure that once we obtain the guns that have yet to be seen, (that increase PP recharge rate and minimize PP usage) then I am confidant that ranger will be a perfectly viable job. For instance, in PSO challenge mode, remember how useless a force is without resta? Now imagine how useless a ranger is without the proper equipment (I won't even mention a steady skillful hand at the controller). This leads me to draw the conclusion that the max level in PSU is currently nowhere near the ranger's peak effectiveness level, so maybe there is still a lot to be seen.

I think everyone's opinions here could be drawn based upon observations, however, it becomes obvious to me that certain opinions may also be drawn based upon skill, or lack there of. Perhaps the reason you are running out of PP simply can be assessed to the prescribed notion of mine that you should pick your shots better and aim for enemy weaknesses rather than just shoot aimlessly like in PSO. Perhaps an FPS player may be better at the ranger position in PSU. And hey, if it doesn't work for you, that's cool, be a force or a hunter, just don't try and demoralize other rangers just because you have an issue with the job. At any rate, thanks for your opinion, I won't be taking it into consideration.

[Cry0]

i plan on meleeing a lot. using PA's to throw them in the air or something (spear, saber), and kill them.

I must make a point though. if you go for fortegunner, your atp will obviously increase a lot more. Mechs will then become a lot more useful once your base atp increases more.

also note that make a wearl or human ra is probably not the best move if damage is what you're interested.

I think ra's have hidden deapths. In the end, they will always get the max damage output vs input (at lack of a better word) ratio. And if powerful guns are levveled up fully, Im sure they match other heavy HU weaponry at high levels.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cry0 on 2006-09-12 15:11 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

Wubbie I was with you on that, but I've changed my mind since it is fucking pointless playing RA right now. RoboKy, removing elemental bullets doesn't make bullets free. They cost the same until your Elemental Bullets get up to level 11, for most gun / element combinations. By L11 though the damage bonus from being L11 makes up for the 2 extra PP cost per shot.

However none of this makes your damage noteworthy with guns unless you're emptying clip after clip and spending assloads of Meseta.

FO can do 3-4x the damage per PP over a Ranger easily. Hunters don't even need to spend PP unless they want to go above and beyond. Hunters also don't need to buy Mates if a FO is there to heal them, and Mates drop everywhere. PP refill items are rare drops and cost 3x more to buy from a shop than it would to refill at a PP cube.

NO ONE COSTS AS MUCH AS A RANGER WHO ACTUALLY WANTS TO USE HIS GUNS

[Itsuki]

If you're using bullets, you probably want to make them count. Depending on which element it is, it may not add THAT much to the PP usage. Ice burns PP really fast. So does Lightning (I think it was lightning that did). Most of the others aren't quite that bad.

And yes, if you want to deal the damage you have to spend the money, but the point is, YOU DON'T ALWAYS WANT TO BE THE DAMAGE DEALER. If you wanted to be the nuker all the time, you'd be a FO.

[Valkayree]

NO ONE COSTS AS MUCH AS A RANGER WHO ACTUALLY WANTS TO USE HIS GUNS



Then stop complaining and switch jobs or sell the game if you don't like it. Take it as is, or learn to play the way it was designed. Sheesh. Also man, Caps Lock doesn't get you friends.

[Alisha]

yeah but from what ive seen techs dont fire instantly. seems you could get off 2-3 shots in the time it takes to cast the techs i've seen. this is starting to sound like ffxi again heh

[Parn]

OK Vandal, we get it. You think ranger sucks because it isn't LOLHIGHESTDPS. You've been bitching about this crap since day one with me, and I told you to just make a hunter. You picked a class that attacks from a safe distance... did you honestly expect your DPS to match that of a hunter? So shut the fuck up and make a hunter. That way you can bitch about taking twice as much damage as me from tech-using monsters later, and how the game's biased against casts, or something.

[Wubbie]

Parn, jumping all over it... I like this side =P...

Vandal, you're still not playing it correctly though, I explained how it should be played for the maximum damage to meseta output and you're obviously not using it... You MUST melee at some point...
Do cops only have guns? Nope, they carry Billy Clubs, Tasers and countless of other things that take a closer range to be properly used.

Think of it as running out of clips... Switch to the knife in your other hand and wait till you "find more," (or in PSU terms, recharge.) - You're using to much PP due to careless mistakes, so I'm gonna go off the usual Wubbie kick and say, L2P.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

This is great news.

In my opinion, Rangers were the least fun class in PSO, because they are all extremely broken. RAmarl was by far the best class for solo, RAmar's ATA was astronomically high, RAcast is a HUcl with better stats and cheaper weapons, need I continue? In PSO, playing a RA was a walk in the park. It was, quite litterally, like shooting fish in a barrel. Frozen, paralyzed, and sometimes even confused, fish, in a barrel.


As people have said here, STFU and make a hunter if you don't like ranger. Rangers keep their distance. They do not melee. They do not take damage. They do not have to buy mates. It all works out in the long run.

[kazuma56]

Anyone know what a ranger can actually use melee wise besides a dagger/saber?

Like as a Ranger can I dual sabers/daggers if i wanted to? or even a partisan/claymore type weapons for crowd control? because as a Ranger in PSO I usually adapted to the situation and would melee enemies if proved to be more useful then ranging.

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-12 15:09, Parn wrote:
OK Vandal, we get it. You think ranger sucks because it isn't LOLHIGHESTDPS. You've been bitching about this crap since day one with me, and I told you to just make a hunter. You picked a class that attacks from a safe distance... did you honestly expect your DPS to match that of a hunter? So shut the fuck up and make a hunter. That way you can bitch about taking twice as much damage as me from tech-using monsters later, and how the game's biased against casts, or something.



HEY ASSFACE (mods ignore that, Parn and I are actually good friends). You're missing the point entirely.

I've said like 5 times now I don't care about not being the HIGHEST DPS OMG so much as I cannot stand how much we have to pay just to FIRE OUR GUNS IN A FIGHT. Yeah a FO without Resta wasn't that cool in Challenge mode. Guess what? A Ranger that wasn't shooting guns sucked too.

Ultimately the money issue perpetuates the low damage output further because we take twice as long to get enough money for upgrades.

Also Valkyree, I don't know what game you're talking about with "hitting enemies in teh weak points". Only bosses have areas that take more damage than others, and those areas just let you do your average damage, not extra. Other areas are just higher dfp than normal enemies. Normal enemies do not have "weak points" in PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-12 15:50 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

Calling someone a name is a great way to get your point across.

For my ranger, I plan on using ranged weaponry to thin out numbers / weaken my enemies, then running in and finishing them off with melee. That way, I increase the life of my ranged weaponry by also using melee weaponry, but I don't exactly put myself in danger since enemies will be near death when I go in to melee anyways.

[zandra117]

On 2006-09-12 14:01, LoneVandal wrote:
Anyone who gets hit as a Ranger sucks at playing it. Equip dual-pistol, hold the strafe button and back away while firing away with ice bullets until your PP runs out 3 minutes later, spend 100 meseta refilling, repeat ad inifinitum.

If you're really bad at Hunter you can get hit a lot, sure. If you do things like wait for enemies to commit to an attack, then move to the side and hit them, you tend to use a lot less healing items. Also, healing items drop like candy, they aren't a substantial meseta drain.

Alisha : Show me that video, and RA still have to craft weapons because right now that is the only way to get 5* guns without doing A rank missions (which requires like L30 probably to actually hurt anything in), and even if you did A rank missions weapon drop rates are abysmal in PSU.


Stop soloing and join a group, PSU parties are similar to PSO's Challenge Mode. Rangers use covering fire and status effects to keep enemies from attacking teammates. Forces buff the party and also toss out status effects that are less accurate while dealing medium damage. Hunters keep the enemies grouped together away from the rangers and forces and do all the major damage.

Instead of paying money to recharge your stuff, after clearing a mission stay in the final area of the mission and naturally recharge most of your equipment before moving to the town, goal lobby, or outpost.

[Niki]

I like Rangers.

[kassy]

PSO's rangers were just pure out imbalanced, glad to hear they're a little more of a challenge to play in PSU, means I might actually play a ranger this time round http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-12 15:54, Miyoko wrote:
For my ranger, I plan on using ranged weaponry to thin out numbers / weaken my enemies, then running in and finishing them off with melee. That way, I increase the life of my ranged weaponry by also using melee weaponry, but I don't exactly put myself in danger since enemies will be near death when I go in to melee anyways.



I love all these posts from people who haven't actually played RA in PSU and think they can do it better than I am, or that I'm in some way doing it wrong.

Guess what, some day pigs will fly out of my ass and then Jesus will come tell me I'm a sexy beast then rape me. I'll also love the experience, despite having never had it yet.

Here is how it boils down:

You shoot guns to cause status effects like freeze which save your party from dying (not that they require this service in the first place, or that HP are expensive to refill lol FO). Freeze lasts for all of 3 seconds with people hammering away at random enemies you're trying to CC. You keep shooting anyway because inturrupting enemy attack animations helps the Hunters in the middle of 6 mobs not die from getting hit by all 6 at once or close enough together that they're stunlocked to death.

If you aren't shooting your guns you're not helping your party. If you shoot your guns you are spending PP and thus Meseta at an incredible rate compared to the other 2 classes.

If you use melee you are acting like a Hunter who sucks at being a Hunter due to weaker weapons, inferior Photon Arts, and lower hp. Sure it is cute for a change of pace, but lets not forget, if you aren't shooting your gun you aren't leveling your bullets, if you aren't leveling your bullets you're remaining more weak and ineffecient than a Ranger who does.

I hope this has ended all confusion on the topic at hand and some people actually get the point. RA is not a fun class compared to FO or HU in PSU. In November I bet half the people disagreeing with me in this thread will actually TRY Ranger (assuming they don't massively alter the class) and come back here and voice the exact same complaint I am right now.

[ShinMaruku]

Thaks to all this info 50cent will now be complete as he busts caps in asses....

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-12 16:00, zandra117 wrote:

Stop soloing and join a group, PSU parties are similar to PSO's Challenge Mode. Rangers use covering fire and status effects to keep enemies from attacking teammates. Forces buff the party and also toss out status effects that are less accurate while dealing medium damage. Hunters keep the enemies grouped together away from the rangers and forces and do all the major damage.

Instead of paying money to recharge your stuff, after clearing a mission stay in the final area of the mission and naturally recharge most of your equipment before moving to the town, goal lobby, or outpost.


Lets look at your logical fallacy here:

Yes, get a group then make my group wait for me to recharge 11 per 5 seconds of 1,080 PP on my rifle, then the same rate on my 780 PP of dual pistols, and however many more guns it took me to finish clearing the scenario. I'm sure they'll love that.

NOTE: To people who aren't aware, guns you aren't equipped with do not recharge PP on their own, and I do mean holding it in your hands equipped, not just on your weapon palette.

EDIT PART 2 LOL:

I typically duo either with Parn or a FO friend of mine, which is how I know this shit is so out of whack. I'm faced with it every fucking day.

Solo'ing is basically impossible for a Ranger, unless you're already rich somehow, and if you're a Ranger, you're not rich. LOLZ.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-12 16:27 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-12 16:36 ]</font>

[Ibuka]

I can see what Vandal is saying for those that wanna be a full Ranger and carry nothing but guns and bullets. But on PSU it looks like you can't really do that like you can on PSO, unless you have mesta... Which Rangers wasn't easy to play on PSO from the begining, But up in the lv100's there were the easist... PSO it wasn't a problem since your character never ran out of ammo... And since PSU you can, It's very noticable i'm guessing... Cause i'm sure Rangers would be harder on PSO if you could out of ammo. But the fact that you can keep shooting with no combo chain limit seems fair enough. Heck in Monster Hunter the Gunner/Ranger class cost the most money to play, cause you had to buy ammo. But i wish i could use melee weapons on MH as a Gunner like PSU Rangers can, Would save me money and alot of trouble.... Seems like if you wanna be full Ranger and use nothing but guns, you need the Mesta to do it. Starting off i'm sure you have to melee, But i'm sure later on you can go full Ranger. I would change jobs and get the money and then come back and play a Ranger, like i did on Monster Hunter, when i make a Ranger character

[Ether]

Did you know resta costs 30 PP to cast? OMG FORCE IS EXPENSIVE

[LoneVandal]

Did you know Parn is a good HU who doesn't typically get hit that much, thus not needing Resta?

Did you know when I duo with the FO she doesn't typically use Resta because I'm good at not getting hit too? Which is mainly because I USE MY GUNS AND GET FUCKED FOR DOING IT.

EDIT! Upon further thought, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! I should stop playing the strengths of my class and go melee with my shitty C rank spear so the FO has to spend PP and thus meseta healing my idiot self. After all, that is more fair right? Who cares that I might die and she might and the whole run will take twice as long.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-12 16:41 ]</font>

[Ether]

Maybe you honestly havent noticed this, but making money is hard for everyone

[LoneVandal]

Maybe this is news to you, but Rangers spend 4 times as much meseta as you do for the same damage output.

[zandra117]

On 2006-09-12 16:26, LoneVandal wrote:


On 2006-09-12 16:00, zandra117 wrote:

Stop soloing and join a group, PSU parties are similar to PSO's Challenge Mode. Rangers use covering fire and status effects to keep enemies from attacking teammates. Forces buff the party and also toss out status effects that are less accurate while dealing medium damage. Hunters keep the enemies grouped together away from the rangers and forces and do all the major damage.

Instead of paying money to recharge your stuff, after clearing a mission stay in the final area of the mission and naturally recharge most of your equipment before moving to the town, goal lobby, or outpost.


Lets look at your logical fallacy here:

Yes, get a group then make my group wait for me to recharge 11 per 5 seconds of 1,080 PP on my rifle, then the same rate on my 780 PP of dual pistols, and however many more guns it took me to finish clearing the scenario. I'm sure they'll love that.



I said after you clear the mission as in no more enemies to fight, before you leave the area and go to the lobby recharge your stuff. I didn't say to do it in the middle of a scenario. Plus get yourself enough weapons to swap between to get you through a scenario. It will save money in the longrun because you won't have to use meseta and items to recharge soo much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-12 17:00 ]</font>

[Phalynx]

On 2006-09-12 16:43, LoneVandal wrote:
Maybe this is news to you, but Rangers spend 4 times as much meseta as you do for the same damage output.



Again, Ranger isnt meant to do tons of damage.

[LoneVandal]

OK THEN I WILL REPHRASE JUST FOR YOU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Rangers spend 4 times as much meseta DOING THEIR JOB ACTIVELY.

God you people are so retarded it hurts my brain.

[Phalynx]

On 2006-09-12 17:04, LoneVandal wrote:
OK THEN I WILL REPHRASE JUST FOR YOU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Rangers spend 4 times as much meseta DOING THEIR JOB ACTIVELY.

God you people are so retarded it hurts my brain.



Aww, looks like somebody needs his nap.

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-12 16:57, zandra117 wrote:


I said after you clear the mission as in no more enemies to fight, before you leave the area and go to the lobby recharge your stuff. I didn't say to do it in the middle of a scenario. Plus get yourself enough weapons to swap between to get you through a scenario. It will save money in the longrun because you won't have to use meseta and items to recharge soo much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-12 17:00 ]</font>


You're still not making sense. Ok so when the party leader cancels the Relic mission I'm supposed to somehow magically refill my PP? Or if I'm the party leader, I need to make everyone else sit on their asses for 5 minutes while I recharge all my guns before I reset the mission?

And why on earth would carrying more guns SAVE meseta? THEY DO NOT REFILL PP UNLESS YOU ARE EQUIPPED WITH IT. If you burn all your ammo and swap guns, the empty gun STAYS EMPTY UNTIL YOU PAY TO REFILL IT.

[Nilot]

Maybe I'll be a ranger now =)

[Ether]

On 2006-09-12 17:04, LoneVandal wrote:
God you people are so retarded it hurts my brain.


The feeling is mutual http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

PS: What do you think a forces job entails?

Casting spells and using PP!

[Wubbie]

Sorry Lone, we're going to have to agree and disagree on many things in this topic:

Before we begin, allow me to state that though I haven't been online, I've been playing with Rangers offline. Though they are extensively different, you truely do begin to get a feel... Secondly, I'd like to state that I'm MAD for PSU, call me a loser, but I've been watching plenty of movies to pick up the feel for all the jobs so that I can further help my party and find out which I will be playing (Force is still for me, for anyone who is wondering).

I'll agree with you on this, half the people shouting in these forums have no idea what they're talking about... There are a few people who do, however... Parn and Ether come to mind... Though Ether's Resta talk was a bit out of wack.

I'll disagree however with everything else your saying... You can simply attack a monster and stop it's animations with a Melee weapon... No? So, why not switch to doing something like this:

1) Freeze the mob
2) swap weapons if you feel like it (pref. to an Autogun, Handgun... or something you can strafe with.)
3) begin to home in on the enemies while shooting... Next switch hands to the Melee weapon that should be conviently in your off hand and begin swiping around your PAs and Attacks.
4) Rinse and Repeat, helping your party with everything possible... INCLUDING melee weapons to keep your PP nice and recharged...

When a boss happens, whip out the Rifle and snipe... Or simply unload however you please.

Maybe think about changing up your action palette, something like this:
1)Autogun/Dagger
2)Handgun/Saber - Backup for #1
3)Rifle

4-6... All your choice, what ever weapons you feel like putting out there... All this "Polearm" bologna you were speaking about in IRC is ridiculous, it's not needed.

Simply calm down, stop being a hard-head and open up to the new style... It simply takes more time to get used to then the horribly Unbalanced PSO RA...

Side-note: FOs got a gimp to... We have no way to aim... We're not crying.

EDIT to include your "Melee means you're a gimped hunterz!" topic: Horribly false, you're still help your party out by whipping out that autogun/handgun of yours to freeze up a mob, add fire damage, earth damage, lightning damage, etc. to it... Maybe even confuse it, if possible! Throw those things out there once in a while in order to keep yourself ahead of the game!

It's like playing a Barbarian, or an Enchantress on D2... The enchantress will never outpower the Barb, but it will use it's smarts and abilities to get an upper edge.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wubbie on 2006-09-12 17:20 ]</font>

[A2K]

I've never found it to be that much of a problem. I carry four weapon with me (all C rank, and only half of a combo is a melee weapon), and I'm usually in a party of three or more. Doing damage at all can be difficult in the harder ranked missions, I suppose, but I can honestly say I've never been completely depleted. (Aside from a boss fight where switching to something other than a rifle probably would get me stomped on.)

There are little things one can do, like switching to and gaining a little recharge on weapons that need it in the short runs between mobs. The elemental resistances can make a bit of difference as well. More damage, however slight, still means saving a few shots, right?

I can't say I've been able to compare precisely playing a character from the start as a ranger versus anything else, but I don't think I've really been aching that badly for cash, either. At least, not any more so than my usual partymates were at my level.

[Blueblur]

This thread hasn't discouraged me one bit. In fact, I look forward to playing a Ranger because of the slight challenge it may present.

[zandra117]

On 2006-09-12 17:10, LoneVandal wrote:


On 2006-09-12 16:57, zandra117 wrote:


I said after you clear the mission as in no more enemies to fight, before you leave the area and go to the lobby recharge your stuff. I didn't say to do it in the middle of a scenario. Plus get yourself enough weapons to swap between to get you through a scenario. It will save money in the longrun because you won't have to use meseta and items to recharge soo much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-12 17:00 ]</font>


You're still not making sense. Ok so when the party leader cancels the Relic mission I'm supposed to somehow magically refill my PP? Or if I'm the party leader, I need to make everyone else sit on their asses for 5 minutes while I recharge all my guns before I reset the mission?

And why on earth would carrying more guns SAVE meseta? THEY DO NOT REFILL PP UNLESS YOU ARE EQUIPPED WITH IT. If you burn all your ammo and swap guns, the empty gun STAYS EMPTY UNTIL YOU PAY TO REFILL IT.



Why would you cancel a mission, you still get some reward at the end even if you don't do good. If you choose the wrong mission you can cancel it before anyone uses any PP. Just stop canceling mid mission soo much. If the mission difficulty turns out to be over your head then just quit and use money to recharge. You shouldn't put yourself into over your head scenarios too much unless you have bad decision making skills when choosing missions.

[Wubbie]

That's the way you must look at it, Blueblur... It's not even a challenge persay... It's simply a new style and you must learn to adapt to it...

If anyone plays Lacrosse, they know what Whip can do to their stick, and if they don't know how to get rid of it... They must learn to play with it... If anyone plays Hockey, they know that bending their blade wrong can severely mess up their shot... If they do not wish to rebend it, they simply must learn to shoot with it...

It's the same situation.

[Ibuka]

Only thing im seeing here in this topic being complained about is Ranger cost alot of money to do there job in being a full time Ranger without useing any melee weapons



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ibuka on 2006-09-12 17:28 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

Y'know, I was going to reply to Vandal again and point some things out, but feh, no point. If he wants to be miserable, I could care less. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

But keep in mind -- A football coach doesn't need to play the game as actively as his players do to know how to strategize.

[Ether]

On 2006-09-12 17:25, zandra117 wrote:
Why would you cancel a mission, you still get some reward at the end even if you don't do good. If you choose the wrong mission you can cancel it before anyone uses any PP. Just stop canceling mid mission soo much.


You can cancel the mission after you beat it and get the reward to go back to the previous lobby. Useful for missions that dump you in a different place after you beat them, which is most of them

[Blueblur]

On 2006-09-12 17:25, Wubbie wrote:
That's the way you must look at it, Blueblur... It's not even a challenge persay... It's simply a new style and you must learn to adapt to it...


Hence my use of the word "may."

[zandra117]

On 2006-09-12 17:29, Ether wrote:


On 2006-09-12 17:25, zandra117 wrote:
Why would you cancel a mission, you still get some reward at the end even if you don't do good. If you choose the wrong mission you can cancel it before anyone uses any PP. Just stop canceling mid mission soo much.


You can cancel the mission after you beat it and get the reward to go back to the previous lobby. Useful for missions that dump you in a different place after you beat them, which is most of them


Well you can use that time before the cancel but after the mission for everyone in the party to recharge naturally, forces and rangers will definately need the free recharge time and it would be useful for hunters also to recharge their skills. Just tell the whole party that it's recharge time and have everyone recharge their equipment naturally with you. It will save everyone's money.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-12 17:40 ]</font>

[Phalynx]

On 2006-09-12 17:39, zandra117 wrote:


On 2006-09-12 17:29, Ether wrote:


On 2006-09-12 17:25, zandra117 wrote:
Why would you cancel a mission, you still get some reward at the end even if you don't do good. If you choose the wrong mission you can cancel it before anyone uses any PP. Just stop canceling mid mission soo much.


You can cancel the mission after you beat it and get the reward to go back to the previous lobby. Useful for missions that dump you in a different place after you beat them, which is most of them


Well you can use that time before the cancel but after the mission for everyone in the party to recharge naturally, forces and rangers will definately need the free recharge time and it would be useful for hunters also to recharge their skills. Just tell the whole party that it's recharge time and have everyone recharge their equipment naturally with you. It will save everyone's money.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-12 17:40 ]</font>


Problem with that is too many people lack the patience in these kind of games, "I MUST MAX MY CHARACTER AS FAST AS I CAN!" is just a usual example.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-09-12 17:45 ]</font>

[TheStoicOne]

REcharge is the new mag feed.

[zandra117]

On 2006-09-12 17:44, Phalynx wrote:


On 2006-09-12 17:39, zandra117 wrote:


On 2006-09-12 17:29, Ether wrote:


On 2006-09-12 17:25, zandra117 wrote:
Why would you cancel a mission, you still get some reward at the end even if you don't do good. If you choose the wrong mission you can cancel it before anyone uses any PP. Just stop canceling mid mission soo much.


You can cancel the mission after you beat it and get the reward to go back to the previous lobby. Useful for missions that dump you in a different place after you beat them, which is most of them


Well you can use that time before the cancel but after the mission for everyone in the party to recharge naturally, forces and rangers will definately need the free recharge time and it would be useful for hunters also to recharge their skills. Just tell the whole party that it's recharge time and have everyone recharge their equipment naturally with you. It will save everyone's money.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-12 17:40 ]</font>


Problem with that is too many people lack the patience in these kind of games, "I MUST MAX MY CHARACTER AS FAST AS I CAN!" is just a usual example.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-09-12 17:45 ]</font>

If they are gonna be like that then let them leave your party. Let them waste money on their own.

[Ether]

On 2006-09-12 18:01, zandra117 wrote:
If they are gonna be like that then let them leave your party. Let them waste money on their own.


Levels of denial not seen since Saner, congrats

No one is gunna put up for your cheap ass standing around for 5 minutes after every 20 minute mission. Despite LoneVandals crying, the recharge price is not that much, and easily covered by the money you get for beating a mission

[Arrow203]

Okay listen up, I've heard enough of your Rants... Stop playing the fucking job... go play FO So you can have this uberz 1337 damage w/ 4xs less the PP cost... gdamn dude i've never heard someone cry so badly over some damn ingame currency, your starting to sound like people who play FFXI for a living.. zomg i want gilz@!!@!!1~ just STFU already and go play FO.....

[Sessilu]

Being a Ranger now seems more exciting o-o;

[Wubbie]

Arrow, that was horribly uncalled for, though I do see your point...

Tell him the reasoning behind the job, teach him that he's not doing it correctly... He doesn't WANT to play FO, he wishes to play RA.

[Nika]

I don't know whether you say for online mode or offline mode. However, I 'm gonna tell people here that PP in online mode is about 1.5-2.0x time of offline mode. it mean you get a lot more PP with the same name item for online,so you can shoot a lot more.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nika on 2006-09-12 19:53 ]</font>

[farplaner]

Frankly, I haven't played PSO for so long that I don't remember what it was like. However, I'm having tons of fun playing ranger in PSU. Give it an open mind, it's actually quite fun!

[Arrow203]

Agreed.. And dont try to pull that "oh you haven't played PSU because infact i have, i play the offline version of PSU JP and I've played the Closed Beta..


EDIT: I agree that what i said was horribally uncalled for, but for christs sake do NOT try to force your opinion onto other people, sure make a post about what you dont think you like about the game, but dont flame others when they do the same...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arrow203 on 2006-09-12 19:32 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

I'm looking forward to my RAnewearl, personally. Sounds like you just need to learn to manage your PP, which was obvious to most for some time now.

If your style of play isn't proving enjoyable or effective, then you have three options: 1) change your style of play; 2) change your class to something that fits your style better (as it sounds like you did when you switched to a HUcast, which is a race/class combo I'm looking forward to trying as well); or 3) quit playing something that obviously makes you so goddamn frustrated.

[mech259_]

Before reading: The servers have only been up for a few days. I am still experimenting with the RA class, and the game in general.

I have been playing a RA since the day the servers went up, and also a bit on the closed beta, and I agree with LoneVandal mostly. I actually had a similar outburst on irc a few days ago when I realized that rangers that actually use the guns that rangers are supposed to use suck and waste money. (I find it funny that Vandal got angry at me too then ;P)

I think it's stupid that when I played my RA using rifles, I was told that I wasn't playing my class right. Well, ok, I wasn't. But the stupid part about it is that using rifles should be a valid way to play my RA. But it isn't, because ST made it so that RAs have to melee, and that they can't just use guns or they will have to spend 4x as much meseta to be almost as useful as other classes.

Let me make one thing clear before I go any further: I did not make a RA for BIG DAMAGE NUMBERZ. I made a RA because I wanted to kill stuff using guns. And I really didn't mind doing a bit less damage. The status effects that I could inflict were kindof nice, but also pretty useless. But the main problem was that I had to spend way too much meseta. It doesn't make the class more challenging and fun. It's just annoying.

So what I did was I completely changed my weapon setup. I asked irc for advice (Vanadal, Wubbie, and Moon helped me choose this) and eventually narrowed my weapons down to Saber/Handgun, Dagger/Machine Gun, Dual Handgun, and Rifle. I tried spear but I didn't like three things about it: There was no gun to switch to while using it, it looks way too big for my RA-caseal looking character. And it made me feel too much like a subpar hunter. I'm a ranger. Yes, I use melee more often now. But all of my weapons are either guns, or have guns to switch to. I actually really like the dagger, and the saber is pretty good too.

I try to use all of my weapons equally, but my favourite is surprinsgly the dagger/machinegun combo. It's really hard to tell how much damage machineguns do compared to other classes and weapons, but I have fun using them, so it doesn't really matter. The best part though is that I can switch to my dagger whenever I want and use that, so my PP costs have gone waaaaaay down. I still use guns mainly, I just melee too sometimes bit to bring down the cost.

But in the end, I still feel, and play like a RA. Hunters have to use guns too sometimes, afterall. Maybe Fortegunners will be able to have an easier time using only guns, and I'll definetly become one if there's somehow a solution to the current problem, but otherwise Fighgunner seems like a good choice right now.

So...I'm not sure where exactly I'm going with this, but I just wanted to say that although LoneVandal is completely right: You can't be a ranger that uses only guns, it is still possible to be a ranger that uses guns most of them, and also melees to bring down the PP cube cost.

Also I want to say that you'd have to be stupid to have 'recharge time' at the end of missions. Sorry party, I'm trying to save money so can we just wait here for 10 minutes while I recharge all my weapons? (I need them to be equipped to recharge, remember.) Don't worry! It's not boring or a waste of time at all! And we definetly couldn't make enough money to do it in 10 minutes of playing anyways.

Also, it's not fun and challenging to be low on meseta all the time, and it definetly shouldn't want to make you play ranger more either.

[Cross]

On 2006-09-12 18:26, Ether wrote:
No one is gunna put up for your cheap ass standing around for 5 minutes after every 20 minute mission. Despite LoneVandals crying, the recharge price is not that much, and easily covered by the money you get for beating a mission


I dunno, my PP recharge costs for a moderately challenging mission (as a level 32 Force) are usually at least as much as you get for an S-Rank meseta reward (ie: 1000-1500 on average). If I don't make an effort to be a dick and ninja a lot of meseta drops, I usually lose money in party play versus things that are about suitable for me.

The difference between me and a Ranger, though, is that if I go back to an early meseta-farming mission and solo it, I can clear out 5-10 monsters in Rafon Relics using 30PP, and get a couple hundred meseta out of it. With a Ranger, your costs wouldn't scale down so much since they don't really have that killer AoE.
I don't think they're quite as bad as Vandal is making them out to be, but they do seem to be at a disadvantage in terms of soloing (and aside from a few things, that's more or les a disadvantage in terms of making money), and there are a few things that I wish they'd been given to at least make their lives easier in combat - like letting them assign the other button on their gun to a seperate Bullet Art to make multi-element rooms easier to fight against.

[Itsuki]

damn, did PP costs go up online? In the beta it was like... 1 meseta per 10pp. The most I ever need to fill up was ~400meseta, and that was emptying 4 C rank rifles when I was first learning RA. On average, it wasn't more than a 200meseta / mission cost, with an S-rank resulting in ~1500 meseta reward + ~1000 meseta in stuff that drops. And that was doing like 15min max per run. I never used more than 1 or 2 mates and usually didn't use any at all as RA or FO, so overall it was maybe 10% of my earnings going towards my guns.

I have to agree though, that whole "sit around and wait" thing is a load of crap.

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that you can't be a ranger that only uses guns, because thats a hard fact. I think it would be better to say "You can't go into PSU thinking its PSO." And I think what its boiling down to is that LoneVandal was expecting something that was beyond the limits of the game, and is mad because he didn't get what he expected. Hes not objectively looking at the class. The class is in no way bad, is still fun to play, and is still drastically different from the playstyle of a FO or a HU.

[Cross]

It depends on what weapon you're recharging. The more powerful/expensive the weapon, the more it costs to recharge. On my palette, I've got
2x Haujirodou (5-star, B-Rank staff, only the crafting board is sold in stores)
1x Slairodou (4-star, B-Rank staff, 8600m)
1x Reiharodou (3-star, C-Rank staff, 2000m, just there as a last-resort backup)
1x Rikarubari (4-star, B-Rank longbow, 8600m)
1x Beiabari (5-star, B-Rank longbow, crafted)

If I play through something that's kinda tough (but not really over my level range) like B-Rank Hakura in a party, or soloing B-Rank anything else, I'm usually running a bit dry on at least my Haujirodous at the end of every area (and they're a little over 200m each to recharge fully), so if I have to fill up maybe two and a half times throughout the mission, that's 1000 right there, plus any incidental charges for refilling if I have to use my weaker staffs or if I need my Bows for anything.

Edit: Also, yeah, sitting around and waiting for weapons to recharge isn't happening past maybe level 5 (at which point PP recharges cost like maybe 10-20 meseta and it doesn't matter anyway). I've got 6208 total PP between all of my weapons. At 7PP every five seconds, I would literally be waiting for over an hour to recharge all of my weapons from zero. If my money situation gets that bad, it would still be faster for me to pick up a 200 meseta saber and clear C-Rank Linear Line two or three times to get the money.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-09-12 21:11 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

Ever since I found out about mix-wielding and ammo limitations, I planned on mixing melee and ranged, conserving PP, and resting to recharge if permitted. (There WILL be some laid-back parties, and I know I'll be pretty laid back myself.) I feel like I've wasted my time reading this topic, so I'm replying just to get SOMETHING out of it. (post count +1 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

And if you think the ammo issue in PSU is bad, try being a gunner in Monster Hunter. I mean, a pure gunner that actually shoots all the enemies (not just the two dragons that are actually worth using guns on) and spending all their money, not to mention limited inventory space, on ammo and ammo components. (And yes, there are times a gunner has to make ammuunition in the thick of battle!) Now tell me that a RAnger has it bad.

[therealAERO]

Well when I was a ranger I just took a few shots at some enemies while I chilled in the back, than I let the others handle it so I didn't waste TP.

[Itsuki]

Do people allow you to do mid mission re-fills? I mean, we'd occasionally get some people doing it before the 3rd block of relics, but other than that it was almost unheard of and quite looked down upon. Perhaps things are just quite a bit different from what I remember. Only running off of say... 3500 PP total, I don't think I ever really ran out of PP.

[Cross]

Mid-block refills you don't really see, but in the higher leveled areas, it's a bad idea to run right into the first room of a new block by yourself, because chances are half your team is off refilling their weapons. Right now, I could maybe make it through the first two floors of B-Rank Hakura without filling up, but that would be a matter of draining all four of my staffs, and probably digging into my bows a little too.

Multiple refills are pretty much standard on missions that you haven't greatly outleveled, once you're done with C-Ranks. It's not really running out of PP that's the problem, per se - you should definitely be able to make it through a floor without running dry - nor is it really an issue that you take thirty seconds at the start of each block to go charge up. The problem people are running into is that by the end of the entire mission, it's not unheard of that you've spent so much money filling up your weapons that even an S-Rank reward might not quite break even.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-09-12 22:26 ]</font>

[Alisha]

i think people are misunderstanding the word ranger. look it's called ranger not sniper or gunner.
1.Ranger
a soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, esp. in jungle terrain.
consider using traps at all? cause i know the best pso rangers used traps extensively.

i also love the couple people that called pso rangers unbalanced yet i frequently bitched about the fact that gun damage was atp based causeing all rangers to be out damaged by hucasts and humars using guns.
is melee accuacy not an issue? because i remeber reading that in the beta using a photon art cut your accuracy nearly in half.

[White_Zephyr]

I read about half of this post, it started sounding like the same arguements being brought up again and again. Has anyone taken into consideration that we are NO WHERE near understanding everything Ranger has to offer. Do you know any level 50 rangers? ok. Has anyone taken into consideration special weapons that may moot this whole topic? ok. If you enjoy the concept of Ranger, I suggest you just keep going, you don't know how it will be later.

[Cross]

You don't need to be level 50 to give an impression of a class. If a class is bad and doesn't obviously have something coming up that makes them stronger, what sense does it make to pin your hopes and dreams on some nebulous "When I'm a higher level I'll be stronger" idea that nobody really knows about?

I mean, I don't think Rangers are that bad at all, but it's a pretty bad argument to say that you don't understand them until you're maxed out. Not to mention that leveling is slow enough in PSU that to get from level 20 to 50 is going to take dozens of hours of playing anyway; do you really think that it's not a problem if you think it's not a fun class to play until 50, just as long as it magically becomes awesome once it's maxed? It should be fun to play a class from start to finish. If you're not having fun at any point, that's reason enough to quit it.

[White_Zephyr]

It wasn't my intention to imply that everything is golden when you hit lvl 50. I'm saying that there are no experts yet.

[Tycho]

In PSO, Rangers initially did not seem great either.

[Mewn]

I do fine as a Ranger.

* I do decent damage (obviously not on the scale of HU or FO but then RA isn't about flat-out damage dealing) and can - horror shock - actually kill stuff, with a combination of guns plus melee weapons to back up on.
* Can support my party with status effects like Freeze and Combustion.
* Don't get hit as much as other classes, meaning I can just rely on found Mates and not have to buy one.
* Never have problems recharging my weapons.

I must be doing something wrong! I actually enjoy playing a Ranger, and I made the right choice. Spare us your anti-Ranger crap, please.

[Kurenaii]

I was an 85 Ranger in PSO, and I really enjoyed the class. I just kind of dropped it later on, and went on to other classes. I think I'm gonna make another Ranger this time 'round, ta see how I like it on PSU. If I don't, then I'll just switch classes again. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-12 22:34, Alisha wrote:
i think people are misunderstanding the word ranger. look it's called ranger not sniper or gunner.
1.Ranger
a soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, esp. in jungle terrain.
consider using traps at all? cause i know the best pso rangers used traps extensively.

i also love the couple people that called pso rangers unbalanced yet i frequently bitched about the fact that gun damage was atp based causeing all rangers to be out damaged by hucasts and humars using guns.
is melee accuacy not an issue? because i remeber reading that in the beta using a photon art cut your accuracy nearly in half.



I love how you're using an english definition and applying it to a game made in Japan by Japanese people. Come back when you have a clue, I can't afford to give you one cause I spent all my meseta refilling my rifle.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 02:28 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-12 20:02, mech259_ wrote:

Also, it's not fun and challenging to be low on meseta all the time, and it definetly shouldn't want to make you play ranger more either.



Thank you. I'm tired of all the retards who think this is going to make the game "more challenging". No, your job is not "challenging" unless you decide to go be a psuedo-Hunter and get smacked around a lot because you don't use your primary class weapons as your primary method of fighting. It is just frustrating, not hard. You don't get hit if you stand in the back shooting a gun. You have the easiest job of all actually (especially because of being able to fire on the move in PSU with Dual Pistols, no one comes close to your degree of Easy Mode gameplay), but it is also the most fucking expensive for the least amount of influence on a mission. Yes you can kill things, no you can't kill things anywhere near as fast as the other 2 classes, yes you pay 4x as much for the ability to slowly whittle enemies down from safety.

[Wubbie]

You guys are STILL looking at the job COMPLETELY wrong, this topic is getting HORRIBLY out of hand... L2P if you're going to sit hear and claim Ranger is a Psuedo-hunter, because it's NOTHING of the kind.

Giving an ENGLISH defintion for the word of the ENGLISH VERSION is a PERFECTLY viable approach... You're being nothing but stubborn and ridiculous.

I gave a perfectly viable "tutorial" on how to play the class, that is only 1 approach and it works fine while allowing you to shoot and continue to give status effects to the mob... Just because you can't play doesn't mean you have to bring it down upon the class... Chances are you won't make a good FO nor HU either, because you seem to nitpick at every little minor challenge. that you must overcome.

[farplaner]

Guys, recharging PPs don't cost that much! Soloing missions I rarely have to pay more than 200 mesetas. In groups sometimes it costs more but beating the missions yields a lot more mesetas than it costs to refill.

[princejake2]

Just let people do what they want. We all don't have to argue about it. Vandal, you arn't going to change anyones mind, including mine.

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 04:46, princejake2 wrote:
Just let people do what they want. We all don't have to argue about it. Vandal, you arn't going to change anyones mind, including mine.



Well, at least you can't say no one tried to warn you, which was the entire point of the op.

What I got in response was a bunch of posts from people who haven't even played PSU online for the most part, trying to claim I'm wrong, citing anything from LOL RANGERS R MORE THAN GUNZ to LOL IN THIS OTHER GAME IT IS EVEN WORSE SO STOP CRYING to LOL MAKE YOUR PARTY WAIT 4 U 2 RECHARGE. Right, shut up and go die in a fire. All of you.

Wata himself, the resident "expert" even admitted to a FO out damaging him with a god damn Bow, let alone all the techs they get 4x the PP effeciency for using while doing even more damage. There was one response out of the 4 people here I know have played PSU Rangers that totally disagreed with me, and he is a special case anyway, he plays in what are more or less permagroups afaik and maybe it doesn't matter too much to him that he is outperformed by everyone else. Of course, maybe the other people he plays with aren't that great. I don't know, I'm not him.

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 04:43, farplaner wrote:
Guys, recharging PPs don't cost that much! Soloing missions I rarely have to pay more than 200 mesetas. In groups sometimes it costs more but beating the missions yields a lot more mesetas than it costs to refill.



Yeah at level 5 it is like that, or maybe offline mode. Let me know when you've solo'd your first Dragon kill online for 200 meseta, counting the costs of getting to him.

Hint: I spend over 100 meseta just refilling my rifle from killing the Dragon (not counting getting to him), and that is while Parn is hammering away on it as well. Personally I don't see how it is fucking possible for you to maintain your story of spending less than 200 meseta per trip unless all you do is run Linear Line C over and over.

EDIT! I will pre-empt what I know is coming and type it for whatever random idiots want to pipe up with this gem again:

HEY VANDAL YOU DUMBASS YOU SHOULD GO MELEE THE DRAGON LOL THEN YOU WON'T SPEND 1,000+ PP SHOOTING IT LOL RANGERS CAN MELEE

Edit 2! Lets make this crystal clear, I'm not talking about Dragon B, I'm talking about Dragon C, the EASY one, normally costing me a bit over 1,000 PP to kill with a B rank Rifle while duo'ing with a competent (to say the least) Hunter. We're both L20 or so doing this, so we're FAR from underleveled for the fight.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 07:22 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 07:26 ]</font>

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-13 02:18, Mewn wrote:

I must be doing something wrong! I actually enjoy playing a Ranger, and I made the right choice. Spare us your anti-Ranger crap, please.



<Yes Please>

[princejake2]

You are right, I can't say that no one warned me.

[Blackwaltz-R]

Just becasue you are a Ranger doesn't mean you have to only use guns anyway. This definatly wasn't true in PSO and I mentioned in another thread a while back about how Ranger is the 2nd best class in the game after Force, especially when soloing IF you know what you are doing. If Rangers were meant to ONLY use ranged wepaons then they wouldn't have access to melee weapons. Your personal beliefs on how to play does not change the fact your style of play inefficient. The whole point/advantage of an action based game is that you have alot more flexibility to how you chose to play. You can't say you played PSO and never seen a Force who melees, I'm in no way saying that you are wrong but what I am saying is no matter what you think/feel about something, their is ALWAYS more than one way to think/feel about it. Just because you don't want to change doesn't mean you shouldn't, being cynical isn't going to make anything easier.

[Kaply]

Out of curiosity, why are you using a rifle against the dragon? Why not use a shot type gun? Does a laser cannon hit multiple parts on a dragon?

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-12 15:47, LoneVandal wrote:

Also Valkyree, I don't know what game you're talking about with "hitting enemies in teh weak points". Only bosses have areas that take more damage than others, and those areas just let you do your average damage, not extra. Other areas are just higher dfp than normal enemies. Normal enemies do not have "weak points" in PSU.



That means carrying multiple weapons, alternating to the proper weapon containing the best element to accomplish the task at hand, using your traps wisely, and not overconsuming. Enemies find strength in your lack of meseta and weaponry selection. Slow your roll, you are not expected to kill everything by yourself as a ranger. Meele as a ranger if you want to do that, it may be necessary, but don't rely on it all the time when your PP drops, like many others have claimed that is the "best" way to play a ranger. So don't try to. Carry a lot of guns, and don't blast away constantly. There is no "best" way to play, but you can listen to the JP if you want, they hammered on about that elitist nonsense in FFXI. The weak point of the enemy is knowing your limitations, not a "physical weak point" as my previous statement may have suggested. Read between the lines man, a good FPS player knows this.

[A2K]

On 2006-09-13 07:15, LoneVandal wrote:
[quote]
Wata himself, the resident "expert" even admitted to a FO out damaging him with a god damn Bow, let alone all the techs they get 4x the PP effeciency for using while doing even more damage. There was one response out of the 4 people here I know have played PSU Rangers that totally disagreed with me, and he is a special case anyway, he plays in what are more or less permagroups afaik and maybe it doesn't matter too much to him that he is outperformed by everyone else. Of course, maybe the other people he plays with aren't that great. I don't know, I'm not him.


I, for one, was not "totally disagreeing" with your assessment. I was simply stating that, from my experience, the problems you've had with the Ranger type simply aren't so apocalyptically damning to me as they are to you, illustrated by emotionally charged tirades.

You certainly have every right to discuss your misgiving with Rangers, and truthfully, I'd just be annoyed if my opponents were recycling the same arguments at me as well. But that's most certainly not an excuse to flip out and rescind a user's right to some damn respect at every contrary opinion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-09-13 07:55 ]</font>

[Dahilia]

Oooh.. <3


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dahilia on 2006-09-13 08:20 ]</font>

[White_Zephyr]

On 2006-09-13 07:53, A2K wrote:


On 2006-09-13 07:15, LoneVandal wrote:
[quote]
Wata himself, the resident "expert" even admitted to a FO out damaging him with a god damn Bow, let alone all the techs they get 4x the PP effeciency for using while doing even more damage. There was one response out of the 4 people here I know have played PSU Rangers that totally disagreed with me, and he is a special case anyway, he plays in what are more or less permagroups afaik and maybe it doesn't matter too much to him that he is outperformed by everyone else. Of course, maybe the other people he plays with aren't that great. I don't know, I'm not him.


I, for one, was not "totally disagreeing" with your assessment. I was simply stating that, from my experience, the problems you've had with the Ranger type simply aren't so apocalyptically damning to me as they are to you, illustrated by emotionally charged tirades.

You certainly have every right to discuss your misgiving with Rangers, and truthfully, I'd just be annoyed if my opponents were recycling the same arguments at me as well. But that's most certainly not an excuse to flip out and rescind a user's right to some damn respect at every contrary opinion.


Here, here.

[Alisha]

after reading this thread fully rested its clear to me that your main complaint is that you THINK you are paying more meseta for less dmg. however one piece of information i'm having trouble getting out of people is this. what is the difference in accuracy between a fo using a bow and a ranger using rifle? to expalin why this information is important imagine this situation.

a fo doing 150 dmg per hit and posting an average accuracy of 60%

a ra doing 110 dmg per hit and posting an average accuracy of 95%

in this situation it's clear to me who would come out on top in gun based damage. but if you are just eyeballing it its natural that you would get frustrated.

1 last question are the mid stage PP refills free?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-09-13 08:39 ]</font>

[Mewn]

PP refills are never free, but they don't cost that much Meseta either. At least not for me.

[Cry0]

indeed, i didnt read the full topic, but Ra's can do eg 60 damage at 95% accaracy, and HUs 80 at 60% accuracy. personally, I'd rather hit.

[Alisha]

something i've been thinking of. is it at possible that either mst or tap has some sort of influence on elemental gun photon arts? the reason i'm wondering this is simple. look at the percieved best race in the ohter 2 classes.

Hunter-Beast-great stats all around for a hunter except low ata

Force-Newman-good all around force stats but cant take hits.

but you if you look at a cast ranger they would appear to have no weakness what so ever. male cast even has more atp than a beast female. somethings gotta give somewhere eh?

[Ryoga4523]

I have not played PSU yet, but from reading through 4 1/2 pages of this thread, I can see where Vandal is coming from. (This is what I think Vandal is referring too) It is hard for everyone to make money + RA's use more to do their job + they cannot grab meseta as frequently as the other classes + if they use melee weapons their job is not being fulfilled ie crowd control = the worst in terms of having overall meseta because they are performing their job and trying to raise their bullet skills...


Since he has played the game, this is a valid opinion and sure he is a bit over zealouos with his opinions, I still think that his argument is rather accurate (in regards to the method I understood he was using to calculate his conclusions)

[Tystys]

lol, this topic makes me laugh.

People are still going to be rangers. Nice of you to try and warn us but alot of people like the new challenge PSU presents

[TheStoicOne]

This topic failed.

[Itsuki]

but you if you look at a cast ranger they would appear to have no weakness what so ever. male cast even has more atp than a beast female. somethings gotta give somewhere eh?
Well, most rangers excell in evasion aswell. I think part of being a ranger is actual manual dodging and moving around alot, but on the rare chance you do get hit, rangers that aren't underleveled for the area do have a better chance of evading. Now, when it comes down to it, cast's low evasion isn't an issue when its a HU, because it has SUVs to make up for it. But as a RA, I wouldn't ever expect to be able to use an SUV. Even though your defence is higher (by a very small amount as a RA), you'll be taking more damage, assuming you do get hit, with no real gain from it.

Of course, I would have to see higher level stat curves to really give a more concrete answer. The only race I know the ins and outs of is Newman. And I do actually plan on playing RAnewearl (yay for having lower attack power than male FOs).

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 11:39, Tystys wrote:
lol, this topic makes me laugh.

People are still going to be rangers. Nice of you to try and warn us but alot of people like the new challenge PSU presents



More fuel for the people fire. Mech has already helped explain that it isn't "more challenging", RA is not a "challenge" in any respect, it is a grind and it is annoying as fuck to play because everything you want to do will take twice as long as it will for other classes because of reletive low damage output + expense. Since people like comparing this to other games I've got one for you too:

Imagine a Ranger in FFXI that is still the most expensive class to play, but isn't anywhere near the highest DPS, in fact they're more like a Dragoon and just kind of poke and prod enemies rather than being any significant threat. No one in their right mind would play it.

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 07:44, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
LOL RANGERS CAN USE MELEE, U DONT NEED GUNZ LOL


Summerized.

[therealAERO]

How about...just switch classes than, and if you really want to be a ranger switch back. We have the power to do that now without making a new character

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 07:46, Kaply wrote:
Out of curiosity, why are you using a rifle against the dragon? Why not use a shot type gun? Does a laser cannon hit multiple parts on a dragon?



3 Reasons.

1) Shotguns in PSU only shoot 3 bullets until you level their bullet arts or whatever their called to 11+ (which takes a few days)

2) The dragon can stun-lock an L20 character to death with breath attacks / a lucky trample, so staying far, far away is always best

3) The only shotguns available max out at 3* quality, because only Mota sells better ones, and we can't get to Mota yet online. The ones in the Colony aren't good enough, and I don't have 30,000 meseta to spend on a 5* crafted one. I'd buy dual-handguns first because they are the best RA weapon for general fighting by far.

There are no "laser cannons" available right now. The only guns available to RA are Pistol, Dual Pistol, Shotgun, Single Mech Gun, and Rifle. We don't even get Bows in online mode for whatever reason. For melee we get 1 saber, 1 knife, or Spears. Obviously Spears do the most melee damage of those 3 choices, and Rifles / Dual Pistols do the most damage of all your guns typically.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 14:23 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 07:53, A2K wrote:
[quote]
Words
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-09-13 07:55 ]</font>


I wasn't actually referring to you. I didn't know you were one of the actual PSU Rangers here. Noted.

[chibiLegolas]

I actually find that most of Vandel's original points quit valid.
I too worried when I first heard about PP usage in PSU. That meant that the ranger class has greatly been changed from PSO.
Instead of argueing on the many ways one can play a ranger in PSU, how about discussing how to efficiently playing a pure ranger class? (since that's where the main fault seems to lye right now).
True, in the early levels of a ranger 1-20 or 1-50, it seems that multiclassing into a force or hunter is easier and an ideal thing to make since PP to meseta usage can be overwelming.

So how CAN one be a pure ranger?
Does resorting to a pure ranger mean you're forced to tag all enemies and run around to distract enemies from hunters being overwelmed and be temp. shields for forces?
Running around for distraction without meleeing seems a bit silly, but is there an alternative if a player only wishes to level up the ranger class and his guns/bullets? Maybe being more nimble with your foot is a good way to space out your PP usage?
Depending on your gender and race, a ranger's def and evade isn't all that bad afterall.

And I'm sure to be a pure ranger, you're pretty much have to be in a party of 3+. And the more team members, the better I assume since the role of a ranger is support and distraction, so you're relying on your other teammates to deal the actual damage, both melee and tech-wise.
Unload your guns whenever the occation is warrented and do so to speed up the mission for the best ranking to get the most out of your progress and meseta earned, no?
This pretty much has to continue till the ranger is high enough to earn more meseta than he/she is spending on each run. I assume saving up meseta to even earn better guns or items to synthesize better guns is going to be difficult. Sell off stuff on the side in your shop (if a ranger could even afford to open shop), but I don't see any way around it except for soloing (or piggy-back up with a force) for early runs to make quick cash (like previously suggested).

Are there any other ideas out there or misconceptions I have? I'd like to think of ways to avoid this handicap for pure rangers if possible. Or is this too early to discuss since we need more info for later items and character progression?

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 07:49, Valkayree wrote:
That means carrying multiple weapons, alternating to the proper weapon containing the best element to accomplish the task at hand, using your traps wisely, and not overconsuming. Enemies find strength in your lack of meseta and weaponry selection. Slow your roll, you are not expected to kill everything by yourself as a ranger. Meele as a ranger if you want to do that, it may be necessary, but don't rely on it all the time when your PP drops, like many others have claimed that is the "best" way to play a ranger. So don't try to. Carry a lot of guns, and don't blast away constantly. There is no "best" way to play, but you can listen to the JP if you want, they hammered on about that elitist nonsense in FFXI. The weak point of the enemy is knowing your limitations, not a "physical weak point" as my previous statement may have suggested. Read between the lines man, a good FPS player knows this.



No, what that means is not giving my 100% when everyone else is. If I want to spend the same money they are while playing I have the choice of only shooting enemies that aren't frozen, and stopping when they are frozen, or using melee weapons like a gimped Hunter. Either way I could be doing more for my party to end the mission faster. Carrying multiple weapons is what people with the money to afford multiple 8,600-30,000 meseta weapons do, currently the only person I personally have played with that is like that is an L28 FO, who has 2 of the coveted 5* staffs that cost the same as the 5* guns which are my only weapon upgrade at L20.

I like smaller games because they are actually more challenging, enemies can actually get to me before they're zerged to death like in 6 player games and I have to move around a lot. Besides that, I actually get to hit every enemy before it dies, and as a bonus if I'm actually trying my best for my duo partner I sometimes get the killing blow XP, which will NEVER happen in larger games with 2+ HU and FO in the group hitting things twice as hard as I am, let alone the difficulty in securing meseta against 5 other players. Plus if one dies because everyone is being lazy and just zerging I just got hit for another 100+ meseta loss when I don't get S-Rank.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 14:32 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-13 08:36, Alisha wrote:

Stupidity


Are you not even reading what I post then hitting "reply" and spewing random crap? It seems to be the pattern.

It doesn't matter what a FO does with a Bow at all, that is just salt in the wound. They get 4x the damage per PP spent using Techs, they don't need Bows or ATA period.

Hunters can attack stuff from behind and get 100% accuracy, so actually Beasts are perfect for HU if they know how to play the damn game. ATA is only important for Rangers really because what is the damn point of running behind every enemy when you could start shooting them as soon as you see them from a safe distance? If you were duo'ing you couldn't get behind most of them anyway while maintaining any sort of range, they'd turn around while you're running giant laps around them.

[Wubbie]

Please Lone, stop complaining... This is my last and final post due to your stupidity and horrible debating skills... You're OBVIOUSLY not playing the game correctly, Myself and many other people have no trouble with the PP costs and can play Ranger just fine... If you want to play with guns all day long, you're not playing the right job, nor game for that matter...

[LoneVandal]

Right, because Hunters that melee all day long and FOs that use techs all day long are obviously using their classes wrong too.

[Alisha]

On 2006-09-13 14:04, LoneVandal wrote:


On 2006-09-13 11:39, Tystys wrote:
lol, this topic makes me laugh.

People are still going to be rangers. Nice of you to try and warn us but alot of people like the new challenge PSU presents



More fuel for the people fire. Mech has already helped explain that it isn't "more challenging", RA is not a "challenge" in any respect, it is a grind and it is annoying as fuck to play because everything you want to do will take twice as long as it will for other classes because of reletive low damage output + expense. Since people like comparing this to other games I've got one for you too:

Imagine a Ranger in FFXI that is still the most expensive class to play, but isn't anywhere near the highest DPS, in fact they're more like a Dragoon and just kind of poke and prod enemies rather than being any significant threat. No one in their right mind would play it.


thats actually where ffxi rangers are now because they got nerfed about a year ago.warrior and monk are top tier dps now.
wich actually makes (psu)rangers sound worse because a(ffxi)ranger brings things to a party you cant measure in damage.like pulling and status bolts wich i doubt psu has anything remotely resembling unless the DOTS like blaze effect are amazing.

edit:wtf you cant go to mota yet online?lawl



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-09-13 20:09 ]</font>

[Ashimayu]

**LONG ARSE POST**

First of all lemme start by saying......calm down man, try to remember its just a game. take a deep breathe, some pills and a bottle of evian.
From looking at this post it just looks like a flaming competition and everyone is not listening to each others opinions and the same thing keeps getting repeated again and again

Before i started playing I was having the exactly the same arguement with my brother and i was considering not playing as RA but i just stuck in it. At the end of the day RA turns out to be a very good class, and i know its gonna get a feck load better http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Now. Lone I Agree With You, and alot of other people agree with you. From PSO to PSU being a Ranger is whole different ball game now. Raising a RA is so expensive the Repo Man has taken my Partner Machinary untill i pay my bills.

When i was first playing i emptied all my clips and was screwing thinking "I Can't Believe It! This Sucks!". This makes soloing very annoying, but it justs means you have to be more disciplined and skilled than in PSO

Yes there is the playing style in which you can carry some mellee weps and it does work well but some people just like the idea of being a pure ranger (I know I sure do) As it simply fits the job decription and if i wanted to melee i would of been a HU, and its possible to be a pure ranger. it just takes patiences. Everyone wants to get to the lvl 50 asap so they look l33t. just chill and take your time.

{Lone Vandal}
"Imagine a Ranger in FFXI that is still the most expensive class to play, but isn't anywhere near the highest DPS, in fact they're more like a Dragoon and just kind of poke and prod enemies rather than being any significant threat. No one in their right mind would play it."

If you want to refer to other online games ill take Ragnarok Online for example:
When you first start as an Archer in ragnarok (As Your First Char) its painfully annoying (not hard) because you dont have the money to buy enough arrows, you can't evade shit and you sure as hell can't cliff kill yet, but when you become a Hunter and your in the level 70+ you own the field, MVP and PVP. Range Base Character allways seem to get it bad in the beginning but i assure you it allways gets better.

As You Play On Your Weps become Stronger and get Better PP and You Bullets Get Better (and YES you do do extra elemental damage that helps alot)...and if thats not good enough Grindin increases both PP and ATK Power. In PSU there are more flying enermies than PSO so thats when you start shining when that little HU just can't reach and if they do pull out a gun your more likely to hit and in the long run it works out better for a Ranger.

PP's abit of a bitch when it comes to soloing but if your in a big party PP should not be a problem at all...take a few pop shots give them status effects act as an enemy attack interupter and let the damage dealers to the rest, chill and claim your exp. As for meseta...if someone is hogging all the cash tell them to be fair and claim your mohoney.

You Just gotta remember each class has their strengths and weaknesses when they solo its just with RA the Strengths arn't as obvious as the other classes. but IMO I'm happy I stuck with it

Ohh yeah....you could just start as a HU, Level abit save some cash and then change to RA when your at a stable cash point. whatever floats your boats~

[Kyuu]

On 2006-09-13 14:39, LoneVandal wrote:

It doesn't matter what a FO does with a Bow at all, that is just salt in the wound. They get 4x the damage per PP spent using Techs, they don't need Bows or ATA period.
Now that's just LOL-worthy. You do realize Forces have a horrible time hitting things with their technics (with the long wind-up animation and all) while Hunters are busy tossing the enemies across the room with their PAs.

It's pretty plain that Forces are, in fact, worse off than Rangers.

Managing your PP properly is part of the Ranger class. If you don't like it, or just suck at it, then the Ranger class may not be for you.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-13 22:34 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

I can't believe you just claimed FO have it worse than Rangers. Maybe you need to talk to Cross about that some time, he can set you straight better than I could.

Edit: It also occured to me in the shower that perhaps you lag too much or something to lead targets properly and hit them with your techs. In that case maybe you should play RA instead of FO, they don't get boned by lag quite as much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 23:12 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-13 22:59, LoneVandal wrote:
I can't believe you just claimed FO have it worse than Rangers. Maybe you need to talk to Cross about that some time, he can set you straight better than I could.


Yeah, Kyuu's comment there made me lol too.

[Kyuu]

*shrug* Whatever. I've heard a lot more people complaining about Forces, and you're the only one I've heard seriously whining about Rangers. Maybe it's a bit overboard to say they have it bad, but at least they have a legitimate reason to complain.

[LoneVandal]

Well, it is possible you hear less Rangers' opinions because hardly anyone plays them. That in itself is a good indicator.

Also, LOLLIN AT DIS, you're one of those people who don't even have the game yet you insist I'm doing something wrong. Shut up until you actually play one if you're going to disagree with me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-13 23:29 ]</font>

[Losodo1976]

Finally the Forces aren't the ones getting the short stick. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Kyuu]

On 2006-09-13 23:27, LoneVandal wrote:

Also, LOLLIN AT DIS, you're one of those people who don't even have the game yet you insist I'm doing something wrong. Shut up until you actually play one if you're going to disagree with me.
Yeah, it's kinda sad when someone who hasn't even played knows how to play better, ne? ^_^ (Just to make it clear: that wasn't an entirely serious comment, so keep the flaming to a minimum.)

Anyway, if you didn't notice, there were other posters who have, in fact, played the Ranger class, and who very heartily disagreed with you. But obviously, they're the ones doing something wrong, since they don't seem to have the same problems you do.

Plus, I've watched Watashiwa's videos, and, unless I'm very much mistaken, he plays a RAnewearl. He doesn't seem to be running out of PP every two seconds, and he seems to contribute to the team just fine. Weird, huh?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-14 00:18 ]</font>

[Cross]

Forces don't have a hard time at all unless you're a suck-ass player. Yeah, occasionally a Hunter hits an enemy out of the path of my Zonde... But it still hits the other 3-7 monsters I had lined up to be hit for 200-250 damage (plus a chance of paralysis), all for a meager 13PP.

Granted, that doesn't happen all the time, and occasionally you'll hit some rough spots where you're spending a lot of PP on techs and not hitting many monsters or doing a whole lot of damage, but that's almost all player error - the whole point of playing a Force is that you have to be the most situationally aware guy on the field. You have to know the flight path of your techs, the radius/width of their area of effect, you have to know where you should stand so that you can maximize the damage you can do with their particular range, you have to try to predict where enemies are going to go based on their semi-randomized patterns, whether they're aiming to attack other players, or whether other players are whacking them around with PAs, and while you're doing that you've got to deal with the fact that you have to stay out of their attack range because a powerful enemy can basically kill you in 4-5 hits, if you get hit while there are multiple enemies around you'll be stunlocked and killed in seconds, and you're also the healer/support dude, and Hunters take shitloads of damage if they get stuck in a group, so you have to be close enough to Resta them up.


But none of that is "Forces have it bad"; it's all "Forces need to kinda know what the fuck if they want to be an asset to a team".

[LoneVandal]

Cross is the coolest PSOW person I have met to date :| Parn, I'm leaving you ;_;

[Alisha]

forces sound almost as broken as blms http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Shadow_Wing]

Hmmm idk if I should be laughing at Vandel's emotional outbursts or not... quite frankly his opinion won't stop me from playing a Ranger. If it happens to be a crap class, which I might add I don't plan to play it as coventially as most people think around here infact I plan to experiment a bit, then I'll just simply change classes. I'm not one to dismiss his arguments however I'm not one to take it like it's the truth. I want to see for myself how bad or good Rangers are.

Btw, Lone I do play a 75RNG on ffxi and my dps isn't crap, it's quite high on both HNMs and parties, still expensive though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif. I'm not nearly as close to top tier DPS but I'm damn very near the top, contrary to what you say. Also don't give me that I prolly play with noob crap lol, I swear I'm the most likable elitist on that game.

Just because you think something is wrong or bad about a class/job doesn't mean it's totally bad.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2006-09-14 01:01 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-14 00:15, Kyuu wrote:

Plus, I've watched Watashiwa's videos, and, unless I'm very much mistaken, he plays a RAnewearl. He doesn't seem to be running out of PP every two seconds, and he seems to contribute to the team just fine. Weird, huh?


Nope, my character is Human. (aka RAmarl)

[Cry0]

On 2006-09-14 02:02, watashiwa wrote:


On 2006-09-14 00:15, Kyuu wrote:

Plus, I've watched Watashiwa's videos, and, unless I'm very much mistaken, he plays a RAnewearl. He doesn't seem to be running out of PP every two seconds, and he seems to contribute to the team just fine. Weird, huh?


Nope, my character is Human. (aka RAmarl)



still makes it a valid point, since you don't seem to tech much either(if at all).

[LoneVandal]

... Shadow_Wing you didn't understand what I said at all. I said imagine if Rangers were still the most expensive, but also the lowest DPS. As in, pretend that for me using your imagination. Yeah, you wouldn't like Ranger that much in FFXI any more.

Ranger isn't crap, it is just terribly expensive for what you can do compared to the other 2 classes. They are fine in terms of playability, the problem is all in how fast they burn through PP.

[Cry0]

On 2006-09-14 02:22, LoneVandal wrote:
... Shadow_Wing you didn't understand what I said at all. I said imagine if Rangers were still the most expensive, but also the lowest DPS. As in, pretend that for me using your imagination. Yeah, you wouldn't like Ranger that much in FFXI any more.

Ranger isn't crap, it is just terribly expensive for what you can do compared to the other 2 classes. They are fine in terms of playability, the problem is all in how fast they burn through PP.



wouldnt the opposite be worse for the game? if they didnt burn pp all that fast, and rather slow, then rangers would stick head and shoulders above the others, and the game would b unbalanced. I think that'd b worse.

[LoneVandal]

Or maybe Sega could have just made RA on par with HU and FO.

Wait that would make too much sense.

[Sev]

On 2006-09-14 04:04, LoneVandal wrote:
Or maybe Sega could have just made RA on par with HU and FO.

Wait that would make too much sense.



From what you're saying though, the class is on par with the others. It's just expensive and...

You're broke. The fact that you have to pay to fill PP more often isn't something that will have a huge effect once you're not having problems making money. As of right now though, money isn't easy to get in the first place.

[LoneVandal]

You're right, it isn't easy to make money, and the problem is compounded if you're a Ranger.

We're already the lowest DPS class, struggling to make the money in the first place. Now add unfair fees to our below average DPS, and you have a recipe for fun.

[Sev]

On 2006-09-14 04:23, LoneVandal wrote:
You're right, it isn't easy to make money, and the problem is compounded if you're a Ranger.

We're already the lowest DPS class, struggling to make the money in the first place. Now add unfair fees to our below average DPS, and you have a recipe for fun.



I think it'll balance out eventually. From what I've seen, the damage isn't THAT bad. It's below average, but you also have ways of stopping the mobs progress. Small damage builds up afterall. I think the people that are hardest on Rangers are probably going to be Rangers themselves, but Ranger doesn't seem like it'll be a job where you'll put up big numbers that people will notice.

The money situation will eventually resolve itself. Especially when they start to unlock more of the content... Plus, the rates can be changed if players feel that it's a huge disadvantage correct? Because one of the previous posters seemed to say that PP refills were cheaper durring the Beta.

[Invisible1122]

This is good info. I was wondering how PP regens and it seems like I found the answer http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (I'm making a hunter first then a Ranger later, hopefully they'll fix the situation a little bit by then).

[LoneVandal]

No idea if they were, I didn't make it into that. What I know about right now is that I'm going to probably stick with Ranger just because I like robots with guns, even if I'm going to get screwed on money for doing it. Hunter was fun, I'll probably swap my RA over to it for shits and giggles at times.

[Diablohead]

I'm probably going to play what I first made in pso (and the first char of mine to get realy high level), a human ranger http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I dont care what people say about defects and problems, im sure the game has them balanced somehow, even if its later in the game, a RAmar is still my fave class.

[Zarbolord]

PP should regen automatically, the name 'bullets' for the ranger PAs are just to distinguish them. Also, I haven't seen bullets in shops (from the guides I've seen up to now), so it's probably auto regen. like the others. Remember that you can also use multiple weapons, and types of weapons, which then can make auto regen the others, so unless you use too many PAs quickly, then you won't have problems. And RAngers are very usefull as they can shoot down enemies very easily with big range. All classes need to be present in a group for a mission for the balance to be perfect.

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-14 00:35, Alisha wrote:
forces sound almost as broken as blms http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif



More like as broken as blue mages needing sea access to get all the required spells to be in parties. In short, no sea access, no level 75 blue mage.

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-12 17:25, Wubbie wrote:
That's the way you must look at it, Blueblur... It's not even a challenge persay... It's simply a new style and you must learn to adapt to it...

If anyone plays Lacrosse, they know what Whip can do to their stick, and if they don't know how to get rid of it... They must learn to play with it... If anyone plays Hockey, they know that bending their blade wrong can severely mess up their shot... If they do not wish to rebend it, they simply must learn to shoot with it...

It's the same situation.



So you're saying that rangers were born with a bent stick?

[Kaply]

On 2006-09-14 07:17, Zarbolord wrote:
PP should regen automatically, the name 'bullets' for the ranger PAs are just to distinguish them. Also, I haven't seen bullets in shops (from the guides I've seen up to now), so it's probably auto regen. like the others. Remember that you can also use multiple weapons, and types of weapons, which then can make auto regen the others, so unless you use too many PAs quickly, then you won't have problems. And RAngers are very usefull as they can shoot down enemies very easily with big range. All classes need to be present in a group for a mission for the balance to be perfect.



Have you even played the game? A lot of wrong presumptions in your post. Bullets are indeed sold in the shops, it's basically all sold in one PA shop which includes skills (HU) and techs (FO). You only regen PP on the weapon you have out. The rest do not regen PP.

RAs can attack from range but with the current weapon selection they don't do damage on par with a HU. I played a RA a bit last night with some of the weapons online. The damage is abysmal. The ATP bonus for RA class is very low. Consequently I did low damage with most of my weapons.

One other issue that crops up with this is that mechguns innately add very little ATP. Couple this with RA low ATP and fighting even or higher level enemies mechguns do very little damage. Also found out that zero damage does not generate status effects. This isn't on a miss either cause on a high fluctuation, the mechgun did 1 damage which was able to generate a status effect.

Handguns I didn't test much I would imagine it would perform the same or worse than a hunter due to lower ATP.

On the issue with shotguns, these weapons originally in PSO was good to spread out status effects on multiple enemies. However with the new dynamics of this weapon it's a LOT harder to do so. What effectively changes this is that this weapon can hit one enemies with all of the shots at close range. This means that if you have multiple enemies in a pack, you'll usually have one enemy that's in the lead which partially overlaps the other behind it. This blocks the shotgun from hitting those other enemies. It's actually quite easy to hit one enemies with all four shots, whereas trying to hit four different enemies with one attack is very hard. I'm hoping that the laser cannon can help out more since it pierces, thus it might be better in helping the RA become a support character. One good thing with shotgun is that it has such a long recovery time between shots that it's quite hard to run out of PP with the weapon. (??) Also should add that the best shotgun I could find was one costing in the 2k range from the shops (w/o having to synth one).

The sniper rifle I did test but not with a good enough weapon (ran out of meseta to appropriately twink the character with a sniper rifle). It does what it does. Damage at range. It has good range has decent damage. Has a decent/low recovery time so quite easy to run out of PP with this weapon.

The picture is quite abysmal for RAs right now, but there are some things that also skews this picture.
1 - Light and dark element bullets aren't sold in the shops. So not having access to these makes it hard to truely tell their damage potential because there are a lot of dark elemental enemies in linear line and a lot of light elemental enemies in relics. Also light element bullets can cause confusion(offline) so it's quite good for a status effect since it causes enemies to bunch up. What HU or FO wouldn't want that.
2 - Not all the weapons are available currently. I haven't seen a laser cannon in the shops, crossbows aren't available, etc.
3 - Needing multiple of the same weapons to quickly access different elements. Typically one mission will have 2 (maybe 3) different elemental enemies. It's too difficult to swap elemental bullets in mid attack, thus optimally you would have two weapons available on the bar to swap between to fight different enemies. Not having enough meseta currently to afford multiple copies of the same weapon makes me wonder whether they will have the same damage potential as other classes.
4 - Low level bullets. It's hard to tell how much damage a higher level ranger can do right now due to having low level bullets. They add a consistent amount of damage that steadily grows with each bullet level that may end up evening out their damage with respect to HU and FO. I'm thinking this is possible with crossbows and laser cannons. But without actually seeing the damage bonus percentage(online) on those bullets it's hard to tell.

[Zarbolord]

Have you even played the game? A lot of wrong presumptions in your post. Bullets are indeed sold in the shops, it's basically all sold in one PA shop which includes skills (HU) and techs (FO). You only regen PP on the weapon you have out. The rest do not regen PP.
I said bullets, not PAs, and no I haven't played the game. Also I was told, I don't know how many times that weapons regen PP all the time, slowly, but surely. Sources are from this forum itself.

[Kaply]

PAs is the generic term for three things, bullets (RA), skills (HU) and techs (FO)

[ShinMaruku]

Now I want's gonna make a Ranger but now you gonna make me laugh at them....

[LoneVandal]

Wow Kaply, nice to see someone actually tried this stuff out instead of just arguing in ignorance with me. Now just imagine how much PP you'd spend in a B rank mission ... oh god.

I have a friend who uses Light bullets offline and he says the PP cost is higher than other elements. Leveling bullets raises their PP cost at L11 too. What does that tell me? It tells me the PP problem won't be going away any time soon.

[LoneVandal]

I think I should clarify something for everyone going on and on about elemental bullets:

First, each gun can only be equipped with 1 at a time, and you have to go into your menu options and re-assign elements one at a time if you want to apply a different element on your weapon than the one you have equipped.

Second, optionally you could fill your weapon quick swap palette with 4 different guns (6 once Light and Dark are unlocked.. oh wait.. you can only hold 5 weaps in your Palette anyway http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) and assign a different element to each one, but, then you couldn't have a variety of weaponry on your palette, if 4 of them are the same weapon type with different elements. This is not like HU, who only place one PA per weapon, so they can have 5 different weapon archtypes in their Palette and be situationally better prepared.

2nd, more fun, if you're planning on being a strategic master and having every bullet type for every gun so you can always be prepared, think again. Every class maxes out at 36 learned PA type abilities. That means at 6 elemental bullet types per gun you can have 6 gun types maxed and no melee Photon Arts learned period. Lets see.. We have pistols, dual pistols, mech guns, rifles, shotguns available right now and I know Shoulder Cannons exist in offline among weapon types not yet introduced, as they aren't even shadowed in yet on our class weapon template in game.. Yeah we're already at the cap and all the weapon types aren't even in the game yet, let alone the weapons we'll be allowed access to with advanced classes.

Third, the elemental bonus damage (afaik) works as a multiplier at the end of all other damage calculations (which is good). However, the multiplier your bullets add to your guns is tiny compared to "elemental" Hunter weapons which I've seen for sale in the shop with ratings of 20% or higher in their element. The highest I've gotten my Elemental bullets % influence on my Rifle is 8% at L9 bullets. Perhaps it takes a drastic leap at 11, I don't know. Someone else could probably fill us in on if that happens.

So basically, unless a drastic change in your elemental bonus % occurs at some point in the leveling of your chosen bullet, you don't really do that much more damage with one bullet type over another unless you are swapping from resisted bullet to weakness bullet, which would net like a 16% difference.

The only reasons I can think of if you guys see someone swap bullet types and suddenly do more damage are these:

A) They swapped actual weapons, their Fire bullets or whatever were on a C rank weapon, and their Ice bullet that is suddenly doing 2x the damage was on a B rank gun.

B) Their bullet levels are not even. At L20 with bullet arts you get a 20% higher ATP bonus than an L1 bullet, and 20% higher ATA, so combine that with switching to a monster's weakness and you get a decent damage boost, however it would not be anywhere near 2x dmg over an L1 bullet.

So now you all know how it is possible to skew the appearences of elemental bullets making a large difference (assuming they do not get a giant boost at L11 in elemental damage applied, I already know they don't get a giant boost in ATP or ATA, it goes 1% per level basically).

[Arrow203]

dude... wow.... my elemental attack for my lightning PA alone for my rifle is at 27%... yes that's 27% more damage than w/out that PA so yea... its only lv 25 anyways,



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arrow203 on 2006-09-14 17:27 ]</font>

[Kaply]

If elemental bullets are like techs, then they increase at 1% damage from 1-10? then from 11-20 they increase at 2%

Also calculation looks off for elemental damage.

The multiplier that you see on a bullet is a straight damage increase. The elemental portion is ~25%, not sure if it's on top of the amount listed or based upon your base weapon's damage, seems like it's closer to the later.

So I went to test dual handguns in offline mode. Tested against the same type of enemy. So base info first PP cost is 6 for everything except for fire and earth element which are both 5s. The enemy I was fighting was an ice element mob.


Fire = 110%, Range = 50-57
Ice = 105%, Range = 27-34
Plasma = 105%, Range = 40-46 (data skewed cause it was L3 at 107%)
Earth = 110%, Range = 40-47
Light = 105%, Range = 39-44
Dark = 110%, Range = 40-47
Nothing = 100%, Range = 37-42

Assuming this is a large enough data sampling

then 50/37 = 1.35, or 35% more damage from using a weapon that adds 10% damage and also has an elemental bonus.

then 27/37 = .73 or 27% less damage from using a weapon that the enemy is strong against, this number seems a little odd so I'm going to attribute it to rounding errors. So using the higher range 34/42 = .81 or 20% less damage which works out right (25% less damage + 5% bonus = 20% less damage)

Also you can have six weapons on the bar. Like I said earlier though you don't need one of each element, just need either 2 or three weapons of the same type since so far there's usually only 2 (maybe 3 but I haven't seen it) types of enemies in any one mission.

[Ether]

On 2006-09-14 17:24, Arrow203 wrote:
dude... wow.... my elemental attack for my lightning PA alone for my rifle is at 27%... yes that's 27% more damage than w/out that PA so yea... its only lv 25 anyways,


EXTRA MODE STATS

[TheStoicOne]

lol. Evertime somone brings something that makes being RA sound better, it turns out being wrong.

[Authenticate]

Rangers can fly in the air on magic potatos!

[TheStoicOne]

Awww sorry that costs too much pp, but forces can do it for none. Oh and hunters can do it too.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-09-14 02:02, watashiwa wrote:

Nope, my character is Human. (aka RAmarl)
Ah, couldn't tell the difference. It is kinda hard to see the shape of the ears during normal gameplay, and the outfit seemed to say newman to me. Ah well, my mistake.

Still, humans have slightly better ATP but less ATA, so it's much the same. Humans and newmans are in much the same boat as newmans for every class except Force. And anyway, doesn't really affect the rate of your PP regen.

I'll admit LoneVandal does have a somewhat valid complaint. However, I still think it's just a matter of learning to manage your PP properly. Rangers may be more expensive even with proper management, but I'm not sure what solution is being advocated. Give them free normal (green element) shots and make BAs cost 1 PP? Give them Hunter damage at rifle range? If Rangers don't have PP limiting them, then they're really the easiest class. I've already seen videos of a lone Ranger soloing the first dragon and the big flying imp guy (forgot his name.. Ohma Gog or whatever) without getting touched (and no, not a level 30 doing it on C-rank).

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-14 17:47, Ether wrote:


On 2006-09-14 17:24, Arrow203 wrote:
dude... wow.... my elemental attack for my lightning PA alone for my rifle is at 27%... yes that's 27% more damage than w/out that PA so yea... its only lv 25 anyways,


EXTRA MODE STATS



Quote for truth

You can't compare Extra or Story mode to Online. All the techniques / arts / bullets function differently in terms of statistics, and, online mode is capped at job level 10 and art level 20 for everything right now.

So yeah, someone tell me how much elemental % their weapon shows on it while having an L11 or higher bullet equipped so we can figure out of RA guns online even get more than 10% elemental bonus ever.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-14 20:36 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-14 18:37, TheStoicOne wrote:
lol. Evertime somone brings something that makes being RA sound better, it turns out being wrong.



Yes, this is why so many people argued with me at first. They had the wrong idea entirely about a lot of details concerning Ranger.

[LoneVandal]

On 2006-09-14 19:55, Kyuu wrote:
al does have a somewhat valid complaint. However, I still think it's just a matter of learning to manage your PP properly. Rangers may be more expensive even with proper management, but I'm not sure what solution is being advocated. Give them free normal (green element) shots and make BAs cost 1 PP? Give them Hunter damage at rifle range? If Rangers don't have PP limiting them, then they're really the easiest class. I've already seen videos of a lone Ranger soloing the first dragon and the big flying imp guy (forgot his name.. Ohma Gog or whatever) without getting touched (and no, not a level 30 doing it on C-rank).



You're missing the point again. I never said we're "underpowered" or not useful at all period. I'll be the first to say Ranger is the easiest class to play given infinite time and money. However, I don't have either of those commodities in unlimited supply.

[Kyuu]

Then what exactly is your point? That the easiest class to play should also be the cheapest? Also, I very distinctly remember your posts mentioning how Rangers don't do as much damage as Hunters or Rangers.

I admit it. I'm not getting it. o_0

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-14 22:45 ]</font>

[Nodachi]

On 2006-09-12 13:58, watashiwa wrote:
I don't believe a Ranger's job, in the first place, was to out damage or kill everything in the room. I've always viewed Rangers as a support class.. You can support the others by doing some secondary damage or using elemental attacks to weaken the enemies. (All of them seem to be DoTs except for ice, which freezes the enemies in the room..)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-12 14:02 ]</font>


Amen.

And for the record. RAs in oldschool PSO, taking DC Ver.1 had it real rough (until mass hacks >.>...). They've become way buff apparently in BB, almost a scrub class lol. RAs use to be rare until BB came out :/

[Zarbolord]

-_-'
Sounds like some people still didn't understand what I said. But hey! Let it go!

I say rangers are a nice class, be it pure or with another class in expert. That make you ppl happy =)

[Alisha]

On 2006-09-14 22:52, Nodachi wrote:


On 2006-09-12 13:58, watashiwa wrote:
I don't believe a Ranger's job, in the first place, was to out damage or kill everything in the room. I've always viewed Rangers as a support class.. You can support the others by doing some secondary damage or using elemental attacks to weaken the enemies. (All of them seem to be DoTs except for ice, which freezes the enemies in the room..)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-12 14:02 ]</font>


Amen.

And for the record. RAs in oldschool PSO, taking DC Ver.1 had it real rough (until mass hacks >.>...). They've become way buff apparently in BB, almost a scrub class lol. RAs use to be rare until BB came out :/



i lol'ed

[LoneVandal]

I admit it. I'm not getting it. o_0

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-14 22:45 ]</font>


They're ironically the easiest to play and the hardest to grow at the same time because meseta is so much more important in PSU than it was in PSO.

I'm not sure how I can make this any clearer.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2006-09-15 00:00, LoneVandal wrote:


I admit it. I'm not getting it. o_0

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-14 22:45 ]</font>


They're ironically the easiest to play and the hardest to grow at the same time because meseta is so much more important in PSU than it was in PSO.

I'm not sure how I can make this any clearer.


Perhaps being the hardest to grow is like a punishment for being the easiest to play? *shrug*

[LoneVandal]

Yes, playing RA does in fact feel like punishment.

[Pengfishh]

Just conserve your PP. I will. Throw in some melee. I will. Change your class if you don't like it. I will.

Some of you folks need to step up your MESSAGE BOARD POSTING SKILLS. Telling the guy the same fucking things is ridiculous because I had to sift through all that nonsense to really laugh at few people really understanding the nature of the complaint detailed in the very first post.

I could have been eating breakfast. I ought to be eating breakfast. I'm gonna go eat breakfast. I sure hope to avoid you morons (and not my breakfast) in PSU.

Peace!

[LoneVandal]

Yeah, pistol and to a lesser extend mechgun and saber is working well so far. It just sucks that we can't afford to use Rifles / Shotguns / Dual Pistols consistantly, the signature RA weapons.

[watashiwa]

I dunno about not being able to afford the weapons any longer.. I am finding I have a lot of money I don't know what to do with. I donated 10,000 to one of my new characters and right now I have about 13k or so on my Ranger. I'm planning to spend 20k of it on a new top once I get it. (I could have already had the new top if I didn't donate to my other character..)

If you're just using the shop weapons and not crafting, you should start to have extra money you have no idea what to do with soon.. At least it's been that way for me in my 20s.. (Level 26 now..)

[Kaply]

That's probably cause you haven't shopped on the player shops yet http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Some board lurker told me that he bought a unit for 50k from a player shop.

[watashiwa]

You'd be correct, I don't buy anything from anybody.

[tihoa]

have you tried attaching those elemental damage skills to the weapons yet? ice is really good cause it has a high chance of freezing enemies in place. combine it with the shotgun type weapon and you can freeze several enemies in 1 shot.

[Fleece]

My friends a RA he carries 8 rifles a few guns and a Spear

You complain about damage from the RA but you gotta rememeber your swapping damage for range. so even if you do less damage you get in more hits before the HU's even get close to swinging at them. if you did more damage youd be overpowered.

[Arrow203]

Ok, I think that you should farm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Pull something from ffxi and grab a few friends, go melee and not waste PP, Spend at least some time farming for Meseta and items you can sell for Meseta.. There's your solution go do that and not come back complaining about meseta... Seriously go farm dude its peaceful relaxing and you dont have to have a bunch of people like me jumping up your ass about a single flaw in a video game. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif kthxbye

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-09-14 19:55, Kyuu wrote:
If Rangers don't have PP limiting them, then they're really the easiest class.


This maybe a bit off topic, but it seems to me, to be fair for Rangers, easing PP expenses a bit (as mentioned before) or having them regen at a SLOW rate unequipped seems fair to me. This coupled with the slot item to regen PP faster, it might balance out a few things in the game, no?
I'd imagine that they'll be a rare ingredient released to make weapon regen slowly this way in the future.

Time will tell once more of the game is released.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2006-09-15 13:04 ]</font>

[LoneVandal]

Hooray, and a new page of forum morons who didn't read the rest of the thread and said the same crap everyone else has begins. Please regale me with more stories of how your friend of a friend heard from his mom that RA don't have money issues. Or just shut the fuck up if you haven't actually played PSU, this isn't "post your theorycraft about RA", or "so hay guyz when do you think RA will stop sucking?", this is a warning.

DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE, THE PRICE IS THE ISSUE, THERE I SAID IT FOR THE 100th TIME.

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-09-15 13:28, LoneVandal wrote:
DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE, THE PRICE IS THE ISSUE, THERE I SAID IT FOR THE 100th TIME.


Quoted for emphasis! And I lawled

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-15 13:28, LoneVandal wrote:
Hooray, and a new page of forum morons who didn't read the rest of the thread and said the same crap everyone else has begins. Please regale me with more stories of how your friend of a friend heard from his mom that RA don't have money issues. Or just shut the fuck up if you haven't actually played PSU, this isn't "post your theorycraft about RA", or "so hay guyz when do you think RA will stop sucking?", this is a warning.

DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE, THE PRICE IS THE ISSUE, THERE I SAID IT FOR THE 100th TIME.



Seriously, how many people are going to read through 13 pages of BS to answer a question that should be self-explanatory. The statement has been argued and is now a dead horse, but not for them. They may be new. You got your answer from us all. We heard your opinion, we agreed to disagree, and now you monitor all posts under this topic like this is your home and no one wiped their feet before they came in, and read the life story of your home and its history. Your original statement IS an opinion, not a fact, and they are posting to thank you for your opinion, but to tell you that they do not belive that they will dislike ranger on PSU like you say. You have no right to tell them otherwise unless you are a mod. Just like you can post your theory, they can post theirs. Maybe it is you that should watch your tone. It is all based on perspective. Also, caps lock does not get you friends.

[Ether]

On 2006-09-15 13:28, LoneVandal wrote:
DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE, THE PRICE IS THE ISSUE, THERE I SAID IT FOR THE 100th TIME.

Arguing on message boards doesnt restore PP, nor does it make meseta

[Kyuu]

And as usual, you ignore the post (watashiwa's) where you are, in fact, being contradicted by someone who does play the game.

[Arrow203]

Haha Pwn'd... GO MAKE SOME MONIES!!! Farm vandel boy farm! Welcome to my world of ingame currency, spend enough time farming and you WONT have PP Issues reguarding Meseta how many times do i have to say that? and YES I HAVE PLAYED THE GAME ORZ!!!!! Seriously dude.....

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Thx for leting us know, I will make it my plan to boot all rangers from my party and make every ranger my enemy for being so suck! LOLOLOLOL