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LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 05:50 AM
Don't bother making a Ranger if you care at all about how weak / strong your character is. If you're cool with players of equal skill being more useful than you just because they're playing a HU or a FO, then go right ahead and make a Ranger. After all, Rifles and Dual Handguns are pretty cool to look at and you're certainly not useless while using those weapons. You just get boned for doing it and other classes are still stronger than you.

This is the original post, enjoy:

Contrary to popular belief I don't hate Ranger. I also don't suck at playing it. I am frustrated by it, and from this frustration came a wacky plan to see how I could reduce the cost of playing Ranger without reducing the effectiveness in combat. This guide is the result and explains how to play Ranger without ever spending money on PP from L1 to L14 (where I'm at now, I haven't use a PP cube, or made my party wait for regen since character creation) and probably higher.

Basically your "job" in PSU is to disrupt enemies so they don't kill your party. You use Ice bullets to freeze them in place, you use Lightening bullets to paralyze them (prevents them from attacking like in PSO), you use Earth to mute them, and Fire.. well Fire just does weak DoT and as such I don't use it, it isn't crowd control, so it won't really help your party as much as say Ice.

You can accomplish this easily with Rifles and Dual Pistols, they both have a high effect level of your debuff of choice and tie for the highest damage output of any Ranger-only guns. However, they become increasingly expensive to refill with PP as the game goes on. Over time this hole in your pocket allows thousands of meseta to slip out and will always leave you feeling strapped for cash, especially when it comes time to buy 18,000 (or higher) armor and 30,000 weapons.

The alternative, which plugs the hole in your proverbial pocket is not easy. It is difficult, because you must swallow your pride and accept that no matter how hard you try, you won't do quite the damage of a FO 5 levels under you with L1 techniques and cheaper gear.

What you will do however is your job, and fairly well. As long as you're a maelstrom of distraction your FO and HU friends can take on enemies and come out reletively unharmed, and the essentially free method of doing that (compared to PP cube visits) is this:

Roll an RAcast (or whatever)
Buy Ice Bullets for Single Handgun
Buy the PA for Single Saber (or do the tutorial for it)
Buy whatever else will make you stronger like armor with a slot for the +32 ATP Arm Unit

Simple, no? Now all you have to do is pepper groups of enemies with Ice bullets while strafing, then use your Saber PA to knock dangerous enemies into the air where they can't hurt your party. Note that I didn't say spam your Ice Bullets or your Saber PA. You will never need to buy PP at a cube if you learn how to alternate your attacks properly and make use of regular Saber attacks to keep your damage up (uh.. kind of anyway) while giving both of your weapons a chance to regain a little PP.

The most damning thing about Ranger is that if you use a Rifle up and swap weapons, that Rifle stays empty until you either way for it to refill while not attacking, or go bite the bullet (lol) and pay for a refill. The only option left to you if you want to avoid being raped constantly by PP cubes is to use the 1 gun / 1 melee set up as it regens PP on both weapons simultaneously. Not only that, single Handguns have an interesting feature: They have better PP effeciency than Rifles and Dual Handguns.

Rifles and DH use 8 pp to fire and regen 11 per tick.

Single Hand Guns use 6 to fire and regen 13 per tick.

While these are not large numbers, if you try playing with DH for an hour, then swap to single Handgun you will definitely notice how much harder it is to run out of ammo with the single (especially if you read the rest of this and use it).

Now what really seals the deal is the Saber PA. Even if you can't get it to L11, you still get the crowd control function of knocking up to 2 enemies into the air and leaving them prone to massive ass whuppings on the ground by the rest of your team. 2 good examples of enemies this is incredibly useful on are the boss claw monsters in Rafon 1-2 (with the shields on one arm), and the giant beasts that drop 300 meseta in Relics. You can effectively stop these enemies from threatening your party with a well placed PA, and as for the beasts in Relics, Saber and Dual Saber are the only PAs (or so I am told) that can knock them over.

So basically, you have to be incredibly active and aware of the battle at all times, or you are wasting space with this method. Why? Your damage sucks. Horribly. Worse than a normal Ranger using Rifles even. Handguns do not do a lot of damage, and I have not had time to see if Machine Guns are viable to use in this set up. My prediction is that they do not do a lot of damage either, or that they will run out of PP too fast and you will be relying on your Saber even more, which is hurting your DPS to begin with.

Basically the best way I can describe this is that it feels like I'm playing in PSO's Challenge Mode at all times. Even with L10 Saber PA and L11 Ice Bullets. You're completely abandoning what little damage capability you had with Rifles and Dual Handguns in the interest of saving money, which will hopefully benefit you in the long run. Anyways, maybe it only feels like Challenge Mode because I started duo S-ranking Relics at L11 with an L6 FO like this.

What I tell you for sure is that you will spend a LOT of time in melee range and if you're not damned good at PSO/PSU you will not be as good a contribution to your party as a random other player with a good rifle who just stands back and shoots and spends lots of money on refills.

Whew.. and that is it for my book post on how to play Ranger for "free" while still going balls to the fucking wall all out offensive.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 20:34 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 20:38 ]</font>

Kaply
Sep 16, 2006, 07:53 AM
I'd like to add that if you're truely going for support, it is better to buy a shotgun class weapon. It has the benefit of hitting multiple targets and giving you the opportunity to freeze more enemies per shot. Effectively this allowed my RA to become a crowd control class because I'm also able to pull away multiple enemies at one time to other areas of the map so that the party can pull what they can handle from my herding. This is effective in C rank missions. I think this may become a problem when/if enemies start moving faster.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaply on 2006-09-16 05:55 ]</font>

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 08:06 AM
It doesn't fit with the theme of not spending money to refill PP though, which was the entire point. Man you're good at not understanding my posts.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 06:07 ]</font>

Kaply
Sep 16, 2006, 08:15 AM
Try using the shotgun class weapon first. It fires pretty slowly, has limited range and if you want to avoid getting hit, then you won't be firing a lot at all. If you use it as a CC weapon, then you aren't likely to run out of PP anytime soon. If you try to do damage with it yes you will run out of PP (and it's damage is abysmal)

Cry0
Sep 16, 2006, 10:30 AM
If you just want to level up, that is a very good tactic, vandal. Or you could just use this tactic the first 20 levels, and spare a lot of meseta. That way, whent he more expensive meseta weaps come into play, you can buy them from your trust funds, and just use the meseta you gain to keep your money steady.

Wubbie
Sep 16, 2006, 11:39 AM
I see that Lone has FINALLY took the time to "L2P"

Thank you, Lone... You see, the Ranger class has Evolved and your job no longer lies in spamming with your weapons. But you seem to understand that, nice job.

Blueblur
Sep 16, 2006, 01:18 PM
Good post, LV! I'll do my best to remember this. I love how the easiest class to play in PSO is now the hardest class in PSU.

Ether
Sep 16, 2006, 01:36 PM
On 2006-09-16 03:50, LoneVandal wrote:
Buy the PA for Single Saber

All the money and then some that you saved with this method was just lost, because you get that PA free when you beat the tutorial


Rifles and DH use 8 pp to fire and regen 11 per tick.

Single Hand Guns use 6 to fire and regen 13 per tick.

Which brand? Did you know Youmei guns have a higher regen rate?


you will not be as good a contribution to your party as a random other player with a good rifle who just stands back and shoots and spends lots of money on refills

I agree with this part!


Your damage sucks. Horribly. Worse than a normal Ranger using Rifles even.


Whew.. and that is it for my book post on how to play Ranger for "free" while still going balls to the fucking wall all out offensive.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 03:54 PM
Ether:

As in, fighting non-stop from the moment the missions starts until it ends without letting up. Which is normally what will cost a Ranger dearly if you are using other weapons.

I can't read Japanese, so I skipped the tutorial. You're right of course, but I didn't know anything about that until after I already bought it. No, you're not losing more money than you're saving if you buy that. Rangers spend multiple thousands of meseta on refills over the course of one day even at low levels.

I'm talking about GRM weapons, because Youmei sucks. Who the hell wants even lower ATP on a Ranger?
- -
Edited for content & flaming.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dhylec on 2006-09-18 17:30 ]</font>

Ether
Sep 16, 2006, 04:05 PM
On 2006-09-16 13:54, LoneVandal wrote:
Rangers spend multiple thousands of meseta on refills over the course of one day even at low levels.


You exagerate too damn much. I just duo-ed B rank Linear Line 2 with a level 16 force, myself a level 18 ranger. I used dual handguns the entire time. My refill cost was 150. The forces was 190. However, this was an area that was considerably over our level and took a while to clear. It would be much faster and cheaper to do relics or the dragon, or party with 4 other people and kill even faster


I'm talking about GRM weapons, because Youmei sucks horse cock. Who the hell wants even lower ATP on a Ranger?

Apparently you do, since your entire opening post was about intentionally gimping your damage so that you could not pay for PP refills




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ether on 2006-09-16 14:15 ]</font>

Kupi
Sep 16, 2006, 04:18 PM
On 2006-09-16 13:54, LoneVandal wrote:
Ether:

As in, fighting non-stop from the moment the missions starts until it ends without letting up. Which is normally what will cost a Ranger dearly if you are using other weapons.

I can't read Japanese, so I skipped the tutorial. You're right of course, but I didn't know anything about that until after I already bought it. No, you're not losing more money than you're saving if you buy that. Rangers spend multiple thousands of meseta on refills over the course of one day even at low levels.

I'm talking about GRM weapons, because Youmei sucks horse cock. Who the hell wants even lower ATP on a Ranger?

Wubbie:

I don't need your fucking approval. I figured out how to play RA the first day I got this game, this is just a very difficult "extra mode" style challenge you can put yourself through if you want to try to save money. So, take your condescending attitude and shove it up your ass.



I have to point out one thing (well... besides that bold part, which made me laugh). You mentioned that you haven't used Fire extensively, because it's "just" DoT. I seem to recall one of the Beta testers commenting in a previous thread that the cumulative damage of a well-levelled Fire Bullet (enough to cause a Level 4 Flame condition) could kill an enemy from a single application. Now, I have to wonder... if damage is such a concern for you, why are you ignoring your class's most powerful offensive tool? We've already established that Rangers don't do massive damage up-front, so why not go with the indirect damage? You're playing with a support build (primarily ice and lightning) and complaining about not getting enough damage.

EDIT: It should also be pointed out that Fire-elemental bullets cost fewer PP per shot than Ice and Lightning bullets. So, not only are you using support-type bullets, you're also primarily using higher-cost bullets as well. In short: if you want more PP effeciency AND higher damage, level your Fire bullets already.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2006-09-16 14:23 ]</font>

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 04:24 PM
Well, really I'm trying not to spend PP while maintaining effectiveness. I'd try Fire but all my friends always tell me how useful my freezing enemies is to them. L11 Handgun raises you to a level 2 condition, so I wouldn't be at whatever you're talking about anyway.

Edit: I thought I smelled something fishy. I just bought the Fire bullets to see for myself if the damage outweighs the crowd control of Ice, and they cost the same PP to fire as Ice. You're talking about Offline mode as I thought, which doesn't fucking matter.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 14:35 ]</font>

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 04:30 PM
On 2006-09-16 14:05, Ether wrote:

You exagerate too damn much. I just duo-ed B rank Linear Line 2 with a level 16 force, myself a level 18 ranger. I used dual handguns the entire time. My refill cost was 150. The forces was 190. However, this was an area that was considerably over our level and took a while to clear. It would be much faster and cheaper to do relics or the dragon, or party with 4 other people and kill even faster


Congrats, that was just one run. Now try duo'ing Relic 15 times and spending closer to 3,000. More people means more enemies, but not enough to make up for the money being split 6 ways. Besides, I've rarely been in a 6 player game where at least one person didn't suck and cost us the S rank.



Apparently you do, since your entire opening post was about intentionally gimping your damage so that you could not pay for PP refills

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ether on 2006-09-16 14:15 ]</font>


Right, and doing more damage per bullet means spending less PP shooting extra bullets, nulling and voiding whatever you're trying to say about Youmei being better.

Wubbie
Sep 16, 2006, 04:34 PM
I do not have a condescending attitude, heh...

If you've learned how to play Ranger from "day one" then why are you experimenting with new styles of play? Or why are you losing mass amounts of PP and meseta? Because you're not managing well, that is why. You may know the BASICS of playing a Ranger, but you are certainly not executing very well if you're still complaining about mistakes.

Please, continue to play your "new challange mode" ranger, as it's closer to the way Ranger should be played then your old, "I'm a man with heavy arsenal, I'll do what I want," style... You're parties would love you much more if you were able to do you job and not focus on Damage... They'd also like you more if you had a better attitude.

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 04:35 PM
You're so full of yourself it astounds me. Go die in a fire.

Editz: L1 Fire Bullets add 3-4 dmg a tick to my pistol's 50. Uh.. yeah that is some amazing DPS from Fire. They also cost the same as Ice for those who weren't aware. If I spent all day getting this clip to L11 I would hit condition 2. We can't get to condition 4 on any weapon in PSU online mode right now, and I couldn't even try con 3 unless I was spending money refilling a Rifle or Dual Handguns.

Yet another Ranger myth dispelled by me. Hooray.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 14:41 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 14:46 ]</font>

Polly
Sep 16, 2006, 04:44 PM
When valid points are made and one can not properly retort, personal attacks are the key!

Phalynx
Sep 16, 2006, 04:44 PM
Oh the love!

Ether
Sep 16, 2006, 04:50 PM
On 2006-09-16 14:35, LoneVandal wrote:
You're so full of yourself it astounds me. Go die in a fire.


But not a handgun induced fire, as it only does 3 damage!

Valkayree
Sep 16, 2006, 05:01 PM
On 2006-09-16 11:18, Blueblur wrote:
Good post, LV! I'll do my best to remember this. I love how the easiest class to play in PSO is now the hardest class in PSU.



Hunter was the easiest class to play imo.

Deprimenthia
Sep 16, 2006, 06:02 PM
Hunter was the easiest? I really don't think so. Sure it was easier to kill, and such. But as you get in, you realize you have to spend lots of money on healing items, especially if you were an android. Rangers can just stay back, and shoot everything. I remember I had a Ranger who never got hit until Caves 2, after I replayed the Forest twice.

watashiwa
Sep 16, 2006, 06:11 PM
lol internet.

Valkayree
Sep 16, 2006, 06:17 PM
On 2006-09-16 16:02, Deprimenthia wrote:
Hunter was the easiest? I really don't think so. Sure it was easier to kill, and such. But as you get in, you realize you have to spend lots of money on healing items, especially if you were an android. Rangers can just stay back, and shoot everything. I remember I had a Ranger who never got hit until Caves 2, after I replayed the Forest twice.



Androids had traps. If you used them efficiently, and recharged them, they were just as valuable as any force tech, and hit every time. Ranger had to deal with status effects on monsters. Really, all classes were easy, but hunter, come on. Boost ATP, equip sword, start swinging, take damage, deal damage, heal if needed, or ask force for heal (easier with voice chat). If you were taking damage you either A. did not use traps, B. Had a ranger who evidently did not know how to immobalize an enemy (making it tougher to play RA evidently, maybe just for him), or C. Had a horrible force. Eh, maybe they were all equal in difficulty, but ranger was not easier to play than hunter, in my opinion. Force was a little tougher, but had the potential to be the easiest to play post lvl 100, imo.

Deprimenthia
Sep 16, 2006, 06:17 PM
>_> lol stay alive ads on psoworld.

Kaply
Sep 16, 2006, 06:45 PM
I just wonder when LoneVandal will start complaining about the costs of traps.

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 10:29 PM
When I try Protranser probably.

For now though I have a loltastic update to this thread http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I got to L18 still not spending any money on PP cubes, then saw Parn the HU `doing the same damage with a 3* pistol that I was with my 4*, and it occured to me to see if I would do the same damage with a 4* Saber on a HU that I was doing with a 3* Saber on my RA...

I'm sure you can see where this is going. Yeah. Hunter using Ice Pistol / Saber freezes enemies just as much, does the same ranged damage with a weaker weapon, doesn't seem to miss any more than my RA, and holy fucking christ the L11 Saber PA is awesome.

The "free" Hunter is amazingly superior to the "free" RA.

Updating first post to reflect this http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Spellbinder
Sep 16, 2006, 10:45 PM
Congrats, that was just one run. Now try duo'ing Relic 15 times and spending closer to 3,000. More people means more enemies, but not enough to make up for the money being split 6 ways. Besides, I've rarely been in a 6 player game where at least one person didn't suck and cost us the S rank.

A little off-topic but, wow... that's scary. The only times I don't get S-Rank are when I'm fighting a boss for the first time and am learning attack patterns and such. 90% of the time a good team of 6 should be able to get S Rank, and in somewhat later levels easily outweigh any PP cube costs.

Alisha
Sep 16, 2006, 11:14 PM
On 2006-09-16 16:17, Valkayree wrote:


On 2006-09-16 16:02, Deprimenthia wrote:
Hunter was the easiest? I really don't think so. Sure it was easier to kill, and such. But as you get in, you realize you have to spend lots of money on healing items, especially if you were an android. Rangers can just stay back, and shoot everything. I remember I had a Ranger who never got hit until Caves 2, after I replayed the Forest twice.



Androids had traps. If you used them efficiently, and recharged them, they were just as valuable as any force tech, and hit every time. Ranger had to deal with status effects on monsters. Really, all classes were easy, but hunter, come on. Boost ATP, equip sword, start swinging, take damage, deal damage, heal if needed, or ask force for heal (easier with voice chat). If you were taking damage you either A. did not use traps, B. Had a ranger who evidently did not know how to immobalize an enemy (making it tougher to play RA evidently, maybe just for him), or C. Had a horrible force. Eh, maybe they were all equal in difficulty, but ranger was not easier to play than hunter, in my opinion. Force was a little tougher, but had the potential to be the easiest to play post lvl 100, imo.


if you ever had to ask a force for a heal theres a problem. as for lone ill hold my judgement till we get some content updates. im starting to wonder if only the extra classes can get lvl 10+ PA's/technics

Fleece
Sep 16, 2006, 11:38 PM
On 2006-09-16 14:35, LoneVandal wrote:
You're so full of yourself it astounds me. Go die in a fire.




Inconsiderate prick, you even stop to think someone on heres family might have died in a fire. I myself have set myself on fire once and believe me that shit hurts (i was ABOUT to say burns......) so how about you use your brain before you decide to touch your keyboard. Also my friend has the game and his tactic was to just carry 8 rifles, one of each element type and a few backups just in case and the amount of meseta he collected on each run (alone or not) heavily outweighed the amount he spent on PP regen. Now its either your a bad shot and need more practice or that you dont know where the 'Pickup Item' Key is.

Im off to bed. Nights all http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

LoneVandal
Sep 16, 2006, 11:49 PM
Because everything that everyone says on the internet is absolutely 100% what they mean. No, I do not wish anyone to die in a fire 100% literally in real life. There, I have explained that for the touchy person who isn't used to the internet.

Jife_Jifremok
Sep 16, 2006, 11:54 PM
You name a means of death, and chances are there's someone who already died in such a way. Even if you were to tell someone to die by horse-fuck.

Tetsuro
Sep 16, 2006, 11:57 PM
I like how people use the internet as a means to justify their ignorance.

Deprimenthia
Sep 17, 2006, 12:01 AM
How was he being ignorant? I understand what you mean. Lyk wen ppl type lyk dis on da net. And then say "Its just the internet"

But he said go die in a fire. I tell my friends to go assrape a donkey. am I being serious? Why no, my fine feathered friend, I am not. >>

Jife_Jifremok
Sep 17, 2006, 12:08 AM
And I'm sure there's a few who've died by donkeyrape too...I'll reserve my judgment..*snicker*..phh...phtt.t...*face turns blue*

Tetsuro
Sep 17, 2006, 12:13 AM
Ignorance can come in many forms. It is not limited to the inability to spell.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tetsuro on 2006-09-16 22:16 ]</font>

Deprimenthia
Sep 17, 2006, 12:16 AM
It is not limited to the inability to spell.

...Dur. >_> JEEZ.

Joking, but yeah. I suppose. I dont care. This whole topic is an over analyzation anyway.

Natrokos
Sep 17, 2006, 12:17 AM
People who use the internet to justify their ignorance isn't half as bad as people who use it to exaggerate their intelligence.

Deprimenthia
Sep 17, 2006, 12:21 AM
People who use the internet to justify their ignorance isn't half as bad as people who use it to exaggerate their intelligence.

I wouldn't say that. Because you don't usually meet them in real life.

Natrokos
Sep 17, 2006, 12:41 AM
^I don't care, I deal with incompetant morons everyday (I live in Oklahoma). I HATE arrogant little jackasses who think they are intellectually superior.

Luceid
Sep 17, 2006, 12:46 AM
On 2006-09-16 21:49, LoneVandal wrote:
Because everything that everyone says on the internet is absolutely 100% what they mean. No, I do not wish anyone to die in a fire 100% literally in real life. There, I have explained that for the touchy person who isn't used to the internet.



HEY GUY I HAVEN'T PLAYED PSU BUT LET ME TELL YOU HOW WRONG YOU ARE BLAH BLAH BLAH AND THAT'S WHY YOU SUCK.

PS MY FRIEND SOLOED THE ENTIRE GAME USING A PHOTON CANNON ONLINE FOR 2 MESETA

Some people here really do sound that bad. :P

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Luceid on 2006-09-16 22:48 ]</font>

Alisha
Sep 17, 2006, 12:54 AM
http://synbios.net/avatars/arksig.jpg

LOL!

i used to confuse ark with dios when i used to go on the rpgfan chat.>.>

Ether
Sep 17, 2006, 12:58 AM
On 2006-09-16 03:50, LoneVandal wrote:
Contrary to popular belief I hate Ranger. I also suck at playing it. I am frustrated by it, and from this frustration came a wacky plan to see how I could reduce my effectiveness in combat. This guide is the result and explains how to play Ranger without ever doing any damage from L1 to L14 (where I'm at now, I haven't done any damage, or helped party speed up kills) and probably higher.

Basically your "job" in PSU is to run around with a gun and not damage enemies so they kill your party. You use Ice bullets to freeze them in place for half a second, you use Lightening bullets to paralyze them (works great on mage types), you use Earth to mute them, and Fire.. well Fire does damage so I haven't tried it extensively yet, my goal is to not do any damage, doing that won't really help your party die as much as say Ice.

Whatever you do, don't use Rifles or Dual Pistols, they both have a very high application rate of your debuff of choice and tie for the highest damage output of any Ranger-only guns. They aren't even expensive to refill with PP as the game goes on. Over time you might spend hundreds of meseta on them, but will always end up with more money than when you started, and you should have no money troubles when it comes time to buy 18,000 (or higher) armor and 30,000 weapons.

The alternative, which competely gimps any damage output you may have is not easy. It is difficult, because you must swallow your pride and accept that no matter how hard you try, you won't do quite the damage of a L1 FO with L1 foie and starter gear.

What you will do however is your job, and fairly well. As long as you're a huge waste of a party slot, your FO and HU friends can take on enemies and come out severly harmed, and the essentially free method of doing that (compared to doing damage) is this:

Roll an RAcast (or whatever)
Equip your starting Handgun
Equip your starting Saber

Simple, no? Now all you have to do is shoot every enemy once while strafing, then let your party do the rest of the work. Note that I didn't say spam your Bullets. You will never need to buy PP at a cube if you learn how to only shoot each enemy once, for as little damage as possible.

The most damning thing about Ranger is that if you use a Rifle up and swap weapons, that Rifle stays empty until you either way for it to refill while not attacking, or go bite the bullet (lol) and pay 30 whole meseta for a refill. The only option left to you if you want to avoid being raped constantly by PP cubes is to use the 1 gun / 1 melee set up as it regens PP on both weapons simultaneously. Not only that, single Handguns have an interesting feature: They have terrible damage. I'm talking 2-4 damage a shot. While these are not large numbers, if you try playing with DH for an hour, then swap to single Handgun you will definitely notice how much less damage you do (especially if make sure not to use Fire bullets).

Now what really seals the deal is the Saber. Even if you can't get it to do damage, you still get to run up to enemies, quickly get surrounded, leaving yourself prone to massive ass whuppings on the ground while rest of your team watches you die. 2 good examples of enemies this is incredibly common on are the boss claw monsters in Rafon 1-2 (with the shields on one arm), and the giant beasts that drop 300 meseta in Relics. You can ineffectively melee these enemies and get yourself killed very easily, which your team will love.

So basically, you get to be incredibly inactive and unaware of the battle at all times. You are wasting space with this method. Why? Your damage sucks. Horribly. Worse than a normal Ranger using Rifles even. Handguns do not do a lot of damage, and I have not had time to see if Machine Guns are viable to use in this set up. My prediction is that they do not do a lot of damage either, so they may be great for this method.

Basically the best way I can describe this is that it feels like I'm playing in PSO's Challenge Mode at all times. You're completely abandoning what little damage capability you had with Rifles and Dual Handguns in the interest of being a cheap ass, which will hopefully benefit you in the long run, but certainly not your team. Anyways, maybe it only feels like Challenge Mode because I only do about 2 damage a shot.

What I tell you for sure is that you will spend a LOT of time in melee range getting your ass kicked, and you will not be as good a contribution to your party as a random other player with a good rifle who just stands back and shoots like a ranger should.

Whew.. and that is it for my book post on how to play Ranger for "free" while still going balls to the fucking wall all out offensive.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

Luceid
Sep 17, 2006, 01:02 AM
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif^

Quality post 5 stars great effort man!

Authenticate
Sep 17, 2006, 01:09 AM
Maybe you should get a "conversion kit" and change to a female cast shell, then ho yourself out to those horny JP businessmen for PP refill money? You'll probably feel dirty at first, but a cast has to keep his guns full of PP somehow...

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 01:18 AM
Auth, I totally should, and Ether, props 2 u, that probably took like 30 minutes.

I did find something out today though, application chance isn't influenced by the "status effect" rating on your special bullets, that rating actually changes with the effectiveness of your debuffs. As in Status L3 Fire on a Rifle (not the PA's level itself, Rifle debuffs get effectiveness rating 3 starting at L11 PA) would do more than 2-3 damage per tick.

Also, I was doing 60 dmg a shot with my Pistol when I gave up the ghost, my Rifle when I was 2 levels higher did 100 a shot. Either way I do a whole lot more when I hit 2 enemies for 400 each with my L11 Saber PA.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 23:20 ]</font>

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 01:21 AM
On 2006-09-16 21:57, Tetsuro wrote:
I like how people use the internet as a means to justify their ignorance.



I like people who compare themselves to video game characters. So deep.

Spellbinder
Sep 17, 2006, 01:24 AM
On 2006-09-16 23:09, Authenticate wrote:
a cast has to keep his guns full of PP somehow...



Hehe... that's so dirty

Alisha
Sep 17, 2006, 01:35 AM
On 2006-09-16 23:18, LoneVandal wrote:
Auth, I totally should, and Ether, props 2 u, that probably took like 30 minutes.

I did find something out today though, application chance isn't influenced by the "status effect" rating on your special bullets, that rating actually changes with the effectiveness of your debuffs. As in Status L3 Fire on a Rifle (not the PA's level itself, Rifle debuffs get effectiveness rating 3 starting at L11 PA) would do more than 2-3 damage per tick.

Also, I was doing 60 dmg a shot with my Pistol when I gave up the ghost, my Rifle when I was 2 levels higher did 100 a shot. Either way I do a whole lot more when I hit 2 enemies for 400 each with my L11 Saber PA.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-16 23:20 ]</font>


i feel like i just read somethin in a foreign language. i can see the letters but my brain hurts when i try to understand it.

Weak
Sep 17, 2006, 02:16 AM
This thread was a fun read.

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 03:26 AM
It was a fun run. I've gone and done just about everything there is to be done with Ranger at this point in the "beta" part 2.

Let me update my quest for RA knowledge yet again with this:

Shotguns fucking suck. Machine guns fucking suck. I actually wasted the money on an 8,600 meseta B rank Machine Gun just to see if they somehow got better, and no, unfortunately they do not.

Fun fact about Machine Guns, they are the only gun in your arsenal that you will probably do more damage without using Elemental Bullets, than with. It cuts your ATA by 50% and adds 1% to your ATP for equipping even the "OMG DMG" Fire bullets. Knowing this, I as an L19 RAcast went into Relics and spent 400 of my 650 or so PP trying to kill the big rhino monster. I failed, it sucked down 400 B Rank Mech Gun PP and didn't die.

I'm not even going to bother going into detail about why Shotguns are worthless. Imagine a Rifle that you have to stand next to enemies to fire, and you can only fire once every 3 seconds. You can try standing back and spreading out the damage to cause status debuffs, but chances are only 1 in the 3 bullets you fire will actually debuff something, while the other 2 monsters laugh at you for using a Shotgun on them.

Ok so I lied, I did go into detail.

physic
Sep 17, 2006, 03:42 AM
well even if your stuff sonds coarse, you are sharing real info and information, ive only played online but one thing i noticed is guns charge like 8 times faster than melle, course you dont want to run around shooting nothing so take that how you want. My true guess is they meant for rangers to mellee sometimes in this case.

BTW all the caps they put on everything looks sucky and dont reflect what peoples play level probably is everyones talking bout having reached limits on multi jobs, and the games been out for 3 weeks, the slow release bullshit is weaksauce. specially when you can go offline and be a god (compared to online ) in a few days

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 04:03 AM
Guns charge either 8 on Rifles and Dual Handguns, 13 on Handguns and Mechguns, or 11 on Shotguns. Sabers charge 3 per tick as an RA, 4 as a HU, and Handguns charge 10 or 11 as HU, I forget.

Not that you can fairly compare gun PP to melee PP. After all, Hunters still do more damage per swing for free than I do spending 8 PP, thought it does get a little closer if you're using Rifles or Dual Handguns.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-17 02:06 ]</font>

Luceid
Sep 17, 2006, 09:36 AM
I don't really understand what the heck they're trying to do with rangers at this point in time. In the offline mode, rangers are absolute beasts who can blow away entire rooms for obscene amounts of damage. Online, you're basically relegated to a wussy support class unless you want to turn your wallet upside down into your ammo clip.

I've had it absolutely easy-mode since I'm playing Force (and will be come the US release) but while playing alongside Vandal, it's insane to watch him whip out an expensive SMG and start busting mobs about 10 levels below him for 15 damage a pop. Then swap in a handgun that does about 80-90 damage per shot and regens PP faster than we can wipe a room.

Can't comment on rifles other than when I played a cast RA for fifteen seconds and ran out of ammo. I'm sure there's something missing in translation but so far it feels like they're forgetting something with RA's. Kind of concerning.

(WHERE THE HELL IS THE REST OF MY CONTENT RAAAGH SEGA)

Parn
Sep 17, 2006, 09:53 AM
For the record, mechguns did incredibly low damage in PSO as well, up until very hard and ultimate mode where character ATP was high enough to make them work, since mechguns by default came with little to no ATP on the weapon itself.

Rangers probably don't shine until a bit later, kind of like how PSO handled. Only time will tell.

Cross
Sep 17, 2006, 10:17 AM
Just to aggravate the old argument, Rangers are (at least with the current equipment and skills available) the only class that gets more useful in a boss fight than out of one.
Hunters don't have their damage output affected much, but they're put in a position where they can easily get the shit kicked out of them due to the wide reach and high damage of boss attacks, while Forces are limited to single-target techs (AoE techs do not hit more than one target on a boss), which have prohibitively long cast times and flight times when you're talking about extended burst damage, plus if a boss moves, you have to reposition yourself to get a good angle. Not only that, but tech ranges are not really long-range, and casting makes you very, very immobile, meaning that if you're not careful you stand a good chance of getting hit - and if you're fighting a boss meant for your level, that means a distinct possibility that you are effectively one-shotted on any multi-hit attack that stuns.
Rangers, on the other hand, can stand almost anywhere they want - even halfway across the battlefield in the boss's blindspot where it can't attack - and can fire off a rapid barrage of shots with no penalty. Even if they have to move, the transition from moving to attacking is nearly instant.

Check out watashiwa's Onma Gohg video (http://www.ro-world.com/psushiz/onma_60.avi) and take a look at his Ranger's performance in comparison to my Force's. Despite his Ranger being eight levels below my Force, his damage is equal or even higher than mine when I'm using techs, and much higher than mine when I'm using my bow (owing to a much higher firing rate on the rifle; my per-shot damage is still quite superior). And this is with a 4-star Rifle, whereas I'm using a 5-star Rod and a 5-star Bow.

Further, he's making money in Shikon almost as fast as I can make it in Relics.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-09-17 08:18 ]</font>

Saiffy
Sep 17, 2006, 12:00 PM
On 2006-09-17 07:53, Parn wrote:
For the record, mechguns did incredibly low damage in PSO as well, up until very hard and ultimate mode where character ATP was high enough to make them work, since mechguns by default came with little to no ATP on the weapon itself.

Rangers probably don't shine until a bit later, kind of like how PSO handled. Only time will tell.


Sorta like how FOs did insane damage early PSO, in the back of my head, I think that once the support techs are released online, FOs will go back to their standard role.

Frankly, with what little is released so far, I don't think anyone has the right to make fair judgement like this.

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 01:30 PM
I heard you were a numbers person, Vandal.. so here's some numbers..

Solo run through the second part of Shikon C rank (Four floors + mini boss):

Meseta before mission: 11196
Mission start @ 11:05am
First PP Refill on floor 3 @ 11:20am cost 110 meseta
Mission clear @ 11:24am
PP refill @ lobby 108 meseta
Ending meseta: 14842 (before selling junk to shopkeeper)

Meseta gained in 19 minutes: 3646.

Wubbie
Sep 17, 2006, 01:37 PM
It's Sodaboy, I didn't even notice you were Watashiwa...

Sodaboy, not to smother you in compliments, you play the way a RA should play...

Lone, do you not remember me telling you to L2P? Watch some Sodaboy movies, you'll get a good idea on how the class should be played... I recently adopted Sodas style and is what I've been attempting to shove into your thick skull.

Zarbolord
Sep 17, 2006, 01:38 PM
Lesson, use what you like http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Anyway, I'll try out every weapon before deciding which guns to use.

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 03:52 PM
Is Shikon the path to the temple that goes the other way, and ends in the weird glowy mini-boss that is like the Golem in Ruins but dumber looking?


Also, Wata post a vid of that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif I want to see your "legendary" methods. I'm guessing they don't involve Shotguns or Machineguns.

Fuck it, I was going to just ignore you this time, but I'm bored enough to take the bait. Wubbie, good to see being arrogant isn't your only skill.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-17 13:53 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LoneVandal on 2006-09-17 13:55 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-09-17 15:02 ]</font>

Wubbie
Sep 17, 2006, 04:00 PM
Oh yes Lone, you've finally figured me out... Great job! Maybe you'll catch onto Ranger and spelling soon too!

Sodaboy uses Rifles, Machineguns, Handgun/Saber, and Handgun/Dagger as his main methods... I'll happily post one of his Shikon solo runs: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BrOy6IoNUpc

Luceid
Sep 17, 2006, 04:05 PM
On 2006-09-17 10:00, Saiffy wrote:
Sorta like how FOs did insane damage early PSO, in the back of my head, I think that once the support techs are released online, FOs will go back to their standard role.


Ouch, I kind of hope not. I was having fun with this 'damage' thing. :P

Luceid
Sep 17, 2006, 04:13 PM
On 2006-09-17 14:00, Wubbie wrote:
Sodaboy uses Rifles, Machineguns, Handgun/Saber, and Handgun/Dagger as his main methods... I'll happily post one of his Shikon solo runs: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BrOy6IoNUpc


That was definitely pretty good, seems easy when he does it.

And it was pretty freaking smooth, to think that's only 30 fps. Wow. :P

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 04:20 PM
Err.. thanks for the compliment on the gameplay style.. I don't think the sucking cock thing was neccessary, though, Lone.. just because you haven't been congratulated for talking down on rangers, doesn't mean it's O.K. to put other people down. =(

Anyway, Cross wanted me to gather some information about my Shikon runs, so I did 4 runs (including the one I just posted.. I'm going to do a 5th.. but I need a break.. gunna post what I have so far tho'..):

Run #1
------
Start time: 11:05
Meseta: 11196

Floor 3 Refill
Cost: 110

Clear time: 11:24 (19 minutes)
Meseta: 14842

Meseta gained: 3646

Run #2
------
Start time: 12:27
Exp TNL: 9708
Meseta: 3376

Floor 3 Refill
Dagger: 14/11
Handgun: 517/517
Rifle: 355/1172
Cost: 118

Clear time: 12:46 (19 minutes)
Exp TNL: 7273
Meseta: 6917

Total EXP gain: 2435
Meseta gained: 3541

Refill
Dagger: 159/211
Handgun: 512/517
Rifle: 815/1172
Dual Guns: ???/841 (I *did* use these on the last wave of enemies but realized I forgot to log the #)
Cost: 88


Run #3
------
Start time: 1:16
Exp TNL: 5776
Meseta: 10749

Floor 3 Refill
Dagger: 15/211
Handgun: 571/571
Rifle: 471/1172
Cost: 104

Clear time: 1:34 (18 minutes)
Exp TNL: 3447
Meseta: 13469

Total EXP gain: 2327
Meseta gained: 2720

Refill
Dagger: 167/211
Handgun: 517/517
Rifle: 728/1172
Dual Guns: ???/841 (I *did* use these on the last wave of enemies but realized I forgot to log the #)
Cost: 98

Run #4 (High Worm Variation)
------
Start time: 1:44
Exp TNL: 3447
Meseta: 13727

Floor 3 Refill
Dagger: 101/211
Handgun: 492/517
Rifle A: 15/1172
Rifle B: 77/1017
Dual Guns A: 741/841
Dual Guns B: 609/754
Cost: 252

Clear time: 2:05 (21 minutes)
Exp TNL: 980
Meseta: 16159

Total EXP gain: 2467
Meseta gained: 2432

Refill
Dagger: 126/211
Handgun: 351/517
Rifle: 912/1172
Dual Guns: 413/841
Cost: 92


EDIT: And the video you linked up there wasn't even like.. me playing for real.. lol.. it was a test video like I said.. I was just trying to see how it looked on YouTube uploaded at 60fps.. but it got downsampled to 30fps.. I've removed that video now.. If you really want to see a Shikon run video, I'll do one later, haha. That one is a BAD example.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-17 14:23 ]</font>

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 04:27 PM
Heh. Well Wata I won't argue that you did it right, preparing weapons with the right elements before going in and using Handguns / Rifles / Dual Handguns is basically the same conclusion I've come to after trying all the weapons available to Ranger. Being 10 levels over the area though is an important factor to consider though when telling people Ranger can make money solo easily.

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 04:28 PM
It doesn't really matter the class. Cross uses his Force when he clears out Relics and he's several levels higher than the area. He's what, level 36? He solos Relics C for money still.. and the enemies there are level 16. It's still the best way for solo money for him.

When I wasn't doing Shikon for money, I did the first Parum mission (LV 10 Raffon Fields) for money .. I think I only got like a little over 1,000 per run if that.. but it still helped and was mad easy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-17 14:30 ]</font>

Cross
Sep 17, 2006, 04:36 PM
Soloing is always going to involve taking on enemies that are much weaker than you; the areas are designed for six players of slightly lower level.

Just for comparison, I did five runs through Rafon Relics, C-Rank with my Force. Relics plays to the strength of Forces (multiple small, weak enemies who attack in melee and clump up), while Shikon is more Ranger territory (Worms who you need to be quick-on-the-draw for, and the teddy bear things that Barta you constantly, meaning that you have to stay mobile if you go toe-to-toe). My character is, admittedly, a higher level than his by a fair margin, but since I'm playing in Relics and I'm as far over the area's level as I already am, there isn't much difference between my Force at his level and at my current level as far as those enemies are concerned.

watashiwa averaged (from the data he just provided):
124.6 experience/minute
160.3 meseta/minute

I, on the other hand, made:
185.0 experience/minute
163.7 experience/minute


My experience is much higher than his - but the quickest way to gain experience is and always has been/will be to play high-level areas in a party, so I'm not going to give too much weight to that.

The far more interesting bit is that I scored 163.7 meseta/minute, and he got 160.3 meseta/minute. These are almost identical, and we only have data from four and five runs at 77 and 68 minutes of total playtime. With such a small sample size, it's quite likely that the values are mostly influenced by the luck of the individual monster spawns and drops.

I think this is pretty good evidence that the "Rangers can't make money" idea is fairly mythical.

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 04:51 PM
I'm actually really glad Wata posted all that, because I want to play Ranger and being wrong about this is the best news I could ever get.

Authenticate
Sep 17, 2006, 04:53 PM
Awww, so rangers don't have to sell themselves to horny japanese business men? *sadly puts away man-ho suit*

Wubbie
Sep 17, 2006, 04:54 PM
Oh, so you're finally giving into the temptation Vandal? I'm glad Sodaboy could change your mind, I've been telling you this for days now.

Glad to here you won't gimp yourself anymore, welcome back to the team.

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 04:59 PM
Well, going back to Rifles and Dual Handguns was the only option left at this point anyway. I've tried everything and those are the best pure-RA weapons so far hands down.

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 06:54 PM
On 2006-09-17 07:53, Parn wrote:
For the record, mechguns did incredibly low damage in PSO as well, up until very hard and ultimate mode where character ATP was high enough to make them work, since mechguns by default came with little to no ATP on the weapon itself.

Rangers probably don't shine until a bit later, kind of like how PSO handled. Only time will tell.



If you use DEX mag then the problem is you, not the Mechs. Give RA slot of MIND and POW and you have NO reason to complain about about RA or any of the RA wepaons in PSO. You're are especially more to blame if you used RA for the bullshit "support" role. If something doesn;t work right its best to assume the problem is with YOU and not the class or Weapon since people are likely to stick to their own perceptions of the "role" of things.

I used to be like that till I eventually ventured out with my own setups and developing my own methods for optimaizing every class in the game by strengthening their weaknesses rather than reinforcing their strengths which I found retarded and drove me to develope the methods I did. If I didn't bother to go out of my way to explore different setups I prolly would have stayed being some lamer who didn't try to different setups and condemn certain aspects when it was really my own ineptitude and/or me following the common conventions.

I've made all classes in PSO soloing monsters not that thats anything to brag about since anyone with sense should be able to do it too.

PSU I expect is a bit mroe intuitive especially since you don't utilize mags anymore so hopefully progression will be more interesting than PSO.

Luceid
Sep 17, 2006, 07:04 PM
For what it's worth, Parn played a hunter during PSO and not a ranger.

Parn
Sep 17, 2006, 07:10 PM
Hi guys, I like to twink my character with level 200 MAGs after-the-fact and pretend that I know how to think out of the box!

Get bent.

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 07:17 PM
Then how can Parn call Mechs weak? HUs have the ATP, I can see ATA being more of an issue unless Hes also one of those players who fail to realize the ACCUMULATIVE damage Mechs do.

For any job Hoping to use a Ranged weapon in PSO yes dex is important since you will get to the point where you are ONLY using the strong attack--hopefully. This is also part of how RA can be a soloing monster with shot weapons is having JUST enough DEX to use the strong attack almost 90% of the time. When tou have mad POW and MIND for that Shifta boost its just ownage, especially on all the bosses that have multiple target points. Boss fightins shouldn't last more than 1-2 minutes till Ruins.

DiosGX
Sep 17, 2006, 07:17 PM
On 2006-09-17 16:54, Blackwaltz-R wrote:


You're are especially more to blame if you used RA for the bullshit "support" role. If something doesn;t work right its best to assume the problem is with YOU and not the class or Weapon since people are likely to stick to their own perceptions of the "role" of things.


So you're telling me a Ranger using a Frozen Shooter in Ultimate mode was "gimped" of the sorts, compared to a ranger doing damage? Funny, Hunters loved the snot out of my RAcast spamming a Frozen Shooter in ULT Tower since I supported them better than anybody.

By the way, "you're are" looks funny. Kind of like everything else that comes from your beautiful keyboard. <3

EDIT: I suck at quotes ok.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DiosGX on 2006-09-17 17:18 ]</font>

Sev
Sep 17, 2006, 07:18 PM
On 2006-09-17 17:17, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Then how can Parn call Mechs weak? HUs have the ATP, I can see ATA being more of an issue unless Hes also one of those players who fail to realize the ACCUMULATIVE damage Mechs do.

For any job Hoping to use a Ranged weapon in PSO yes dex is important since you will get to the point where you are ONLY using the strong attack--hopefully. This is also part of how RA can be a soloing monster with shot weapons is having JUST enough DEX to use the strong attack almost 90% of the time. When tou have mad POW and MIND for that Shifta boost its just ownage, especially on all the bosses that have multiple target points. Boss fightins shouldn't last more than 1-2 minutes till Ruins.



For the record...

PSO = Old news.

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 07:22 PM
Yet people always make condenmning statements toward it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Nine of what I am stating is restricted to PSO otherwise I wouldn't have went into the depth I did in my posts. If people do the same thing in CURRENT games then my statements would be apt http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Saiffy
Sep 17, 2006, 07:24 PM
On 2006-09-17 17:17, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Then how can Parn call Mechs weak?

Cause they have lowest ATP of other weapons in their rarity range.

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 07:33 PM
The ATP isn't the point, Mechs hit NINE times, its the ACCUMULATIVE damage that I doubt people bother to count on the fly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

if a HU was doing say.. 40 damage per hit while a RA was doing 10 per hit, thats only a 10 damage difference per combo. Of course you prolly won't get mechs till you get to Mines but you'd still be doing alot of damage regardless even if a HU could do twice as much damage as you, HU has to get in the mobs face and risk getting hit (if they don't know the range to start the combo and the combo order to keep them at a safe distance from you with a saber AND don;t miss any hits). basiclly stating that mechs are "Weak" was moot which is prolyl what I should have said from the start.

Parn
Sep 17, 2006, 07:35 PM
For the record, I used a L&K14 COMBAT with 40% hit with my hunter very frequently on PSOGC, especially in ultimate mines. In fact, there's a video of my usage of them on Youtube in the Control Tower. I'm well aware of what kind of damage output mechguns can do, they're just not capable of it early on with a brand new character that isn't twinked with a level 200 MAG.

The problem isn't me Blackwaltz, the problem is that you assume everyone else is dumb and can't think for themselves.

DiosGX
Sep 17, 2006, 07:36 PM
What's awesome is when your magical accumulative damage is 0, because mechs have no ATP to match up to monster DFP when you're too low level.

Which is Parn's original point in that they don't have a purpose of even being used until later in your character's life.

Ether
Sep 17, 2006, 07:46 PM
Mechguns do like 5-8 damage a hit when you first find them in PSO. OMG SO AWESOME. Early game (and challenge mode) sabers do the most damage by a lot

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 07:50 PM
On 2006-09-17 17:35, Parn wrote:
For the record, I used a L&K14 COMBAT with 40% hit with my hunter very frequently on PSOGC, especially in ultimate mines. In fact, there's a video of my usage of them on Youtube in the Control Tower. I'm well aware of what kind of damage output mechguns can do, they're just not capable of it early on with a brand new character that isn't twinked with a level 200 MAG.

The problem isn't me Blackwaltz, the problem is that you assume everyone else is dumb and can't think for themselves.



I don't assume everyone else is dumb, I just don't assume they have the setup that would change their opinion rather than stay their course an leave their perceptions the way they are http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I mean if you aren't sporing a mag that has high DEX and POW then your statement is only relative to your inept/gimp setup. Not that I am saying their is such a thing as bimp/inept setups, I only use them for the sake of argument since thats basiclly whats being stated about Mechs. My stance is basiclly to point out their are NO inept/gimp things about wepaons, yeah their are in contrast with other weapons, but then if I compare roller skating to over driving, yeah skating would be gimp http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif otherwise making an inexplicable general statement about a class of weapons that if you can utilize is pretty inane. "yeah I donlt have a problem using them, but they are still weak", uh.. k?

Cause_I_Own_U
Sep 17, 2006, 07:51 PM
This is what i hear on these ranger threads when i read them

"OMG WTF BBQ RANGA ISENT AZ OVAPOWED AZ MY OTHA GAM MY DREAMZ OF EPEEN OWNAGE R RUINED WAHHHHHH"

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 07:53 PM
On 2006-09-17 17:46, Ether wrote:
Mechguns do like 5-8 damage a hit when you first find them in PSO. OMG SO AWESOME. Early game (and challenge mode) sabers do the most damage by a lot



YOu don't get mechs till you go to mines unless you trade them over or have a ID that lets you get them in Caves. and imagine how gey Mechs would be if they were any stronger, but I;m limited to how far I can go into this since not everyone has the same play style.

Blackwaltz-R
Sep 17, 2006, 07:56 PM
On 2006-09-17 17:51, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
This is what i hear on these ranger threads when i read them

"OMG WTF BBQ RANGA ISENT AZ OVAPOWED AZ MY OTHA GAM MY DREAMZ OF EPEEN OWNAGE R RUINED WAHHHHHH"


I also like how its only one person even having these issues, yeah their was a few peeps to concur but theirs somehting wrong when only one person is all out ranting about this lol

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 08:09 PM
I took a replacement video of a Shikon run.. this one done in 18:55. I guess you could call it "Making money as a Ranger while fighting monsters underleveled.." but, you know, it works. =P

http://www.ro-world.com/psushiz/solo_shikon.avi (For anybody who's interested.. I'm also gunna post it in the pic+movie thread too)

Shiro_Ryuu
Sep 17, 2006, 08:22 PM
I have a RAnewearl in PSU extra mode as my secondary character and I have to say that [so far], it doesn't seem to be too bad. what sux is that you have to have the weapon drawn out for it to refill the PP, but I guess thats part of the challenge. also, the damage from the rifles and long bows is unbelieveable, especially since its a female newman using it.

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 08:59 PM
Oh, I was just asked a question about the video on the game. The reason I'm using lightning bullets in the video is because I only just recently got them a couple of days ago. I wanted to level them up for Hakura 'cuz my other bullets are quite a bit higher. I'm trying to catch up for lost time. They're currently LV 10 for Dual and LV 8 for Handgun.. The run definitely could have been done faster if I used fire bullets.

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 10:57 PM
Downloading vid~ wata, I know killing underleveled shit is how you make money. I'm tired of arguing this crap for now though. I don't actually have a beef with you, just random retards who respond to my thread with "my mom's boyfriend's dog said blah blah about RA so you're wrong". Do you have any 5* guns yet or are you still using 8,600 stuff?

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 10:59 PM
I bought a 5* Rifle yesterday thanks to Cross helping me find one in a player shop.

In addition to that, the 5* Rifle is grinded +4. I also grinded my C rank Dagger 4 times.. and my B rank Handgun twice..

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 11:01 PM
Oh god. I want to grind stuff. How much does it cost to use grinders that won't break your shit?

In detail, please.

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 11:02 PM
The 4 C+7's I got for my Dagger cost 1,000 each.
The two B+9's I used on my Handgun cost 4,000 each.

The Rifle I bought for 26,000 from a Player shop pregrinded +4.

LoneVandal
Sep 17, 2006, 11:22 PM
You're using that Rifle in the new video? Nice 180 dmg shots, jesus.

watashiwa
Sep 17, 2006, 11:37 PM
Yeah.. does good crit damage too. =P Glad you liked the vid =D

Itsuki
Sep 17, 2006, 11:41 PM
you don't even need to use C+7s, I make all my weapons +3-4 as soon as I get them. I use a C+2, C+3, C+4, then a C+5 (if I have one). Has almost a 100% success ratio doing it that way, and adds atleast 20damage onto a 3* gun.

Luceid
Sep 18, 2006, 12:26 AM
Tried browsing the player shops for a little bit, but it's certainly not very easy to find anything without a way to bash out some actual japanese characters. I'll get a *****-level staff one day before the US release, I swear.

watashiwa
Sep 18, 2006, 12:32 AM
Just install the JP IME.. Then when in the game press LEFT SHIFT+LEFT ALT to change to Japanese mode.

When you're prompted to type something in, select Katakana off of the language bar and type in what you wanna find in a player's shop...