Humans and elves gimped?

[Amalgam]

Yeah so I read that the new race Beasts get some kind of powerup that increases their attack extremely high and that androids can summon big ass guns.

So sega has announced that humans and elves won't be getting any special racial ability.

Here's the question now. Why would anyone want to play anything but androids or beasts? You would just be gimping yourself.

[Tystys]

Not really....and, just to be an ass, they're called Newmans, not elves, XD.

No, there's no such thing as gimping yourself in a game like PSU, mainly because it's all about team work. Androids can only summon BIG ASS GUNS and certain levels, and the same goes with the Beast's nano transformation. You rarely see anyone use them, too....why? Because they take alot of...PP, I think it is....to use!

So, no, there is no such thing as gimping a character. Beasts and Casts cannot use techniques as well as Newman's can, and Human's are the most balanced of the four races, mainly because their stats are equal across the board, meaning you can use it for any class.

[ShinMaruku]

Elves all the same... Anyway thry are not shanked because huamns are Gods and Newmen are witches! XD

[Zarbolord]

Does it really matter? They might help you on ingleplayer, but you don't need the oober stuff on team play.

[Zabrio]

On 2006-09-19 09:08, ShinMaruku wrote:
they are not shanked because humans are Gods and Newmen are witches! XD



If you look at there stats humans have middle high on most stats
Same with newmans execpt they have a bit better MST and TAP but a bit lower HP and atp
also Nano blasts and SUV will work like mag blast and they are exspensive
plus Beasts were only good for ATP and HP with medium MST and low ATA. That is why they gave them nanoblasts Cast are medium high at most things but have low MST, TAP and EVP So they gave them SUVs to even the races out.

[kassy]

SUV and Nano Blasts are nice, but they're not worth picking solely beasts/casts simply because they have them and humans/newmans don't.

They're there more so to balance the classes out, once you play humans and newmans you'll see they're not gimped just cause they don't have those extra abilities.

[darthplagis]

if u want a big ass gun as well as ok skills as a ranger but dont care about magic (who can with the new wepon/magic system) then cast is for you. if you wanna go APE on some enemies and suck ur PP instead of just using PA then beast is the one.

or most importantly if you like the look of a cast or a beast then pick one!!!!

[butzopower]

Newmans are hardly elves. More like, Biomonster genes mixed with Human. Learn your PS history. (I expect to have something wrong there http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

[Alpha-Hunter]

i think they added that stuff to make the casts and beasts more interesting. so that only 75% of the population are human hunters instead of 90%. i'm not sold. my first char will be a human hunter like always... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kano-Okami]

Newman's aren't Elves Dx
(although since pso, they've kind of been forced into that 'cliche')
also
@Butzopower, isn't that what beast are, in the new psu storyline? biobeast of burden?

[zofia]

elves? lolegolaz...

[Blackwaltz-R]

Their is no such thing as "gimped" in a game of this type. Thats just another example of those who try to apply MMO mentalities to a game that is not an MMO. progression is this game will be alot more moot since in action based game emchanics style comes into play over optimization.

[Tystys]

On 2006-09-19 10:41, Kano-Okami wrote:
Newman's aren't Elves Dx
(although since pso, they've kind of been forced into that 'cliche')
also
@Butzopower, isn't that what beast are, in the new psu storyline? biobeast of burden?




I think in the story line Newmans were genetically created beings, as humans attempted to try and create a genius race, O_O

[Zarbolord]

That's right. Casts are also the same things but in the mechanical direction. Humans also created the beasts to resist to hostile territory, wow, we've made many geneticly changed races!

[Phaze37]

From what I've heard SUV attacks suck anyways, (much like photon blasts aside from mylla and youlla in PSO) so only beasts get a useful transformation. I'm not gonna let that stop me from using a cast as my main though.

[Zarbolord]

Me too, I'll use a cast, and instead of SUV, I'll adjust Whitill wing, it's much more useful.

[DrewSeleski]

Humans and Newmans have higher stat totals.

[Saikyn]

On 2006-09-19 07:52, Amalgam wrote:
Yeah so I read that the new race Beasts get some kind of powerup that increases their attack extremely high and that androids can summon big ass guns.

So sega has announced that humans and elves won't be getting any special racial ability.

Here's the question now. Why would anyone want to play anything but androids or beasts? You would just be gimping yourself.


I know abstract thought is tough man!! but think about it.

Just because humans and elves dont get a special ability, doesn't nessecarily mean they are worse off or better off. You need to consider that humans can also use magic and put out damage with that, and that extra damage might compensate for their inablity to put out high damage numbers in comparison to the Robots or Beasts :3. Just have faith my man, and play what you want to http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saikyn on 2006-09-19 12:29 ]</font>

[Zarbolord]

You probably know nothing about abstract! Neither do I, but there isn't an explanation for....
*this would go back to the religion and scientific combat which is still going on, pathetic >>' )
... abstract thoughts and art.

[zandra117]

Newmans are a result of mixing Human genes with genes of a Musk Cat. http://camineet.net/camineet/ps1images/tmyau.gif

Fun fact: When a Musk Cat eats a Laerma Nut, it will sprout wings and grow from house cat size to the size of a horse. I wonder what would happen if a Newman eats a Laerma Nut?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-09-19 12:41 ]</font>

[Tystys]

WTF?

OK, that was odd, zandra XD.

@Zarbo's first post on this second page
Meh, I'm going to be using a HUman this time around. I've been usin' casts all my PSO life, so I wonder how humans will feel, XD

[Phaze37]

Do humans and newmans really get overall higher stats than casts and beasts? Combine that with the fact that SUVs aren't good, and I'm now having second thoughts about using a cast as my main. SUVs and nanoblasts dont sound like theyre worth losing stats for.

[DrewSeleski]

http://www.mirakuru.us/PSU/OnlineRRatios.png
Found on the second page of this thread
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=119181&forum=20&start=15&29
Taking Human as the standard since it's average across we get 600% total
Adding Newman up we get 90 + 85 + 110 + 120 + 90 + 105 which also equals 600%
Adding Cast 115 + 110 + 115 + 50 + 120 + 70 = 580%
Beast 125 + 115 + 80 + 60 + 110 + 90 = 580%
Just to clarify how much of a difference there is. You also need to take into account that SUVs and Tatoos take up an slot that could have a different unit in it

Er... I left this open for a while so I hope it's still on topic

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Actually Zandra, the games state that Nei was created by integrating the genes of Humans and Biomonsters. It is only ever even hinted at in Nei's Text Adventure (never officially released in an English-language version) that the "Biomonster" in particular happened to be a Muskcat. It may be considered that there was a lot of Muskcat influence, but chances are there are other beasts involved, as well.

So here's how basic group strategy is going to work in PSU, when confronting large, threatening groups, taking advantage of each race's strengths:


Beasts: Run in first and take the aggro.
Newmans: Hang back just far enough to keep the Beasts healled, also nuking the group.
Casts: Provide covering fire for the beasts, shortening the time they have to spend in there.
Humans: Possibly taking any of the previous three positions; probably best for the second two.


So really, it all works. The only one that's marginally out of place is the Humans.

[Phaze37]

I didn't see the post above mine... looks like they do miss out on stats overall... and just when I thought I had finally decided on a race/class...

EDIT:
Nevermind, I just realized that those lost stats are mostly TAP/MST that I won't be using anyways. I'm sticking with a Cast.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phaze37 on 2006-09-19 13:01 ]</font>

[Tystys]

Yeah, but even than, that doesn't make the human race a bad choice. Because they are pretty much equal in stats, choosing this race really helps in experimenting with Expert Classes later on in the game....ofcourse I'm just assuming this XD

[Phaze37]

Keep in mind though Meira that not every Beast will be a Hunter, not Every Cast will be a Ranger, and not every Newman will be a Force. I plan on using a Cast Hunter, and I hope that people don't go all elitist on me and say that I should use the class that "matches" my race.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phaze37 on 2006-09-19 13:11 ]</font>

[Kupi]

It seems like I can never have said this enough, but... the single most important influence on your stats in all the analyses so far has always been the character's Type. If you're a Hunter, you have strong close-range attacks and great defensive power, whether you're a Beast or a Newman. Race tints your stats, but it doesn't alter them enough to make you play a completely different role in your party than your current Type's. And, on that same note, gender appears to be well near irrelevant. So... pick whatever you want, so long as you're going Hunter for melee, Ranger for disruption, and Force for casting.

[Tystys]

I think Gender DOES take a bit of a toll on the stats. I once saw somewhere that HU females have lower stats in the online mode than the HU males.

[butzopower]

The MuskCat idea is probably furthered with the fact that most Newmans use claws in the old games.

I think "Biomonsters" is healthy. Making the tie-in is up to the player, just like it's up to the player to decide if there's any tie-in with the old PS games and PSO and PSU.

I'm glad they brought the genetic-engineering abuse/racism/government thing back to Phantasy Star.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-09-19 13:06, Phaze37 wrote:
Keep in mind though Meira that not every Beast will be a Hunter, not Every Cast will be a Ranger, and not every Newman will be a Force. I plan on using a Cast Hunter, and I hope that people don't go all elitist on me and say that I should use the class that "matches" my race.



I am, of course, assuming that all the characters in the group have been chosen to take the maximum advantage of their race and class. If you'd rather run with a FOcast as a challenge character, then by all means do it, that's your choice. You probably won't be at the top of the list when people are LFG for a healer, though.

[Sexy_Raine]

Choose who you think looks most interesting to you. As for me, I refuse to use low-tier characters, however I am not a stats whore nor a top-tier whore, honest to God. I only want a suitable character to use who I feel that I could stay with.
I'm not going to choose someone that scrubby noobs are going to use, so let them pick the beast hunters. I believe is using someone challenging, yet suitable for me to enjoy using, and the female newman force fits that perfectly.

[ShinMaruku]

Now the numbers truly stand to prove my point... That and watch what ougi therm expert classes are...

[Kimil]

FUCK WOW, KEEP ALL THAT SHIT AWAY FROM PSU

[foamcup]

Did not the newmans used to have a life-span of 10 years? Were not they fully grown adults after one? Anyway, Karen is 17, so I guess they made modifications to the development process.

Back on topic, nothing is gimped on here, as people have stated previously. Instead of looking at your character as a bunch of numbers, become the character, overcome the shortcomings. I will be playing a newman HU. Lowest attack power? Meh, I will develop my Photon Arts and break out mad combos, then switch out my weapons so the PP can recharge and keep going. On another note, does anyone know if it possible to switch weapons mid-combo to keep a combo going longer? From what I have seen on the site here, it seems not. That would sure be sweet though.

[MoonSblaise]

Quote- "I'm not going to choose someone that scrubby noobs are going to use, so let them pick the beast hunters" -_-... damn you shot me down... I just love the melee with huge swords, apologies if it makes me a noob... who is "scrubby"

[Sev]

It's just how it is... Being a HUMar be default made me a n00b and scrubby in PSO. Being a Beast HU makes you a n00b and scrubby by default in PSU.

People will never get over categorizing things like that. I wouldn't put... Rather... I don't put much thought into other peoples opinions when it comes to matters like these.

[Flamingo99]

why would someone be called a "n00b" for being a beast hunter? what the crap.... thats like saying that your a "n00b" for being a newman force.

[foamcup]

HUmars were scrubby noobs? That thought never crossed my mind at all in all the time that I've played PSO. I played with a good group and we never gave a damn what class a person played. The only people I would classify as scrubby noobs are the kids who name their characters DBZGokuVegeta27 or xXCloudStrife32Xx or something unoriginal like that.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: foamcup on 2006-09-19 14:34 ]</font>

[Sev]

That my friends is stereotyping... Even judging someone by name alone is stereotyping. But I'll just leave it alone, becuase people are gonna think how they're gonna think.

Whatever class you are, whatever your name is, whatever language you speak, as long as you can do you thing in my group then I won't really care about anything else.

[DiosGX]

On 2006-09-19 07:52, Amalgam wrote:
Here's the question now. Why would anyone want to play anything but androids or beasts? You would just be gimping yourself.



Hope you enjoy your zero MST when an enemy casts Foie on you, and virtually one-shots you from full life. Cast and Beast get destroyed by techs.

Oh yeah, I went there.

PS: I play Cast.

[Sexy_Raine]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way Sev. I've only assumed that because there are people who only care about stats and will only choose the strongest characters. I know the beast are a new race and many people are going to want to try them, and there's nothing rong with them. I was wrong for my harsh statement, I didn't mean to upset anyone. There is nothing wrong with wanting to choose a male beast hunter, as long as that person is a smart player, and the character fits that persons preference.

Honestly though, I hate people that purposely choose a character that they feel can be abused and think they're da shit., that's what I really meant by noobs. I didn't meen to offend anyone, I apoligize



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-09-19 14:44 ]</font>

[zofia]

I can't wait to make my gimp 'elf' FO!

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-09-19 14:08, foamcup wrote:
Did not the newmans used to have a life-span of 10 years? Were not they fully grown adults after one? Anyway, Karen is 17, so I guess they made modifications to the development process.


After 1 year, Nei was aged to maturity (no comparison made), and after a year, Rika's growth was comparable to a 16 year old human. Sue comments that a Newman may die at any time; she could die tomorrow, or she could die twenty years from now. Basically, a Newman's life expectancy is random. They might age normally, they might age super-slow, or they might age extremely rapidly.

The only assumption I would make, given the political significance of the Newman population in PSU, is that they've probably achieved a more stable lifespan for the Newman race, which I rather expect is more comparable to a human's. Furthermore, I would anticipate that they've graduated up to the point where significantly more are born from normal breeding than by gene splicing.

[Tystys]

Damnit, Meira, now my brain hurts. THANKS ALOT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kupi]

On 2006-09-19 13:16, Tystys wrote:
I think Gender DOES take a bit of a toll on the stats. I once saw somewhere that HU females have lower stats in the online mode than the HU males.



Hence "well near irrelevant". When you compare the difference in ATP between a Hunter and a Force of the same race, a Beast and a Newman of the same Type, and a male and a female of the same race and Type, I'm pretty darned sure that the male/female stat difference is going to be petty compared to the effect of the other two.

[Animosity]

newmans forces dont need one. theyre nukers no doubt. there normal attacks are special enough.

humans are all around so they cant be gimped in any proffession

[Sev]

On 2006-09-19 14:42, Sexy_Raine wrote:
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way Sev. I've only assumed that because there are people who only care about stats and will only choose the strongest characters. I know the beast are a new race and many people are going to want to try them, and there's nothing rong with them. I was wrong for my harsh statement, I didn't mean to upset anyone. There is nothing wrong with wanting to choose a male beast hunter, as long as that person is a smart player, and the character fits that persons preference.

Honestly though, I hate people that purposely choose a character that they feel can be abused and think they're da shit., that's what I really meant by noobs. I didn't meen to offend anyone, I apoligize



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-09-19 14:44 ]</font>


Don't worry about it, people are free to think how they want and I'm not here to judge anyone about it. Since I myself, am not perfect... I'm damn close but not perfect.

*Ahem*

On a more on the topic note... If you've seen one of the charts, you can tell that the differences are kind of significant... All that people need to remember, is that the jobs can be played in different ways. A FOCast with a Bow shouldn't be that bad of a thing should it? Even though Newman Hunters have low ATP and HP, they most likely don't get one-shotted like people expect. Even then, supperior EVP and a good bit of ATA make being in front of the mob that much more bearable. And a Beast Ranger has the most ATP out of all the Rangers... Your damage won't be bad at all.

Everything has it's upsides and downsides overall. It all depends on how you look at it... I myself am Making both a Human and a Beast... Maybe even 2 Humans. And I'll be enjoying it every step of the way.

[Alexandrious1]

Ill butt in here and add to not forget bout the Expert Classes =) Leaves more to discuss and debate on races/classes. Wartechter for example, *hint hint*

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-09-19 18:35, Animosity wrote:
humans are all around so they cant be gimped in any proffession



Consider that "gimp" is a relative measure. A Human in PSU may be a jack of all trades, but he is a master of none. Though he can do anything, there will always be someone that can do an individual task better.

Because of this, Humans will actually be more complicated to play. A Beast as a Hunter has the gift of simplicity: Run up to something, kill it, repeat. It's the same formula that made the HUcast so straight-forward in PSO. A player using a Human though, will either be forced to be more creative in his tactics, to take better advantage of the Human's flexibility, or accept that he'll always be out-nuked, out-meleed and out-gunned.

Personally, I look forward to seeing what tactics people develop to deal with this.

[Phaze37]

On 2006-09-19 14:37, DiosGX wrote:

Hope you enjoy your zero MST when an enemy casts Foie on you, and virtually one-shots you from full life. Cast and Beast get destroyed by techs.

Oh yeah, I went there.

PS: I play Cast.

Dang, I didn't even think of that. The reason I wanted to use a Cast was because they seemed very suvivable, but if they're going to get owned by techs.... great, now I don't know what race I want to use anymore. The last thing I want is to be a liability to my team. The fact that dying negatively affects your teammates is really annoying to me; I really don't want to screw my team's rank by dying. With their balanced stats, do you think Humans are the all-around most survivable race? I just want to use a survivable race for my hunter, yet I don't want to be a beast because I might want to change my class at some point.

[DiosGX]

Or you could just not get hit by techs. Avoiding them isn't that hard, just keep strafing your enemy and don't use FPS rifle at close range.

If you play cast hunter, get some armor with a head slot in it and boost your MST if it bothers you that much. Consider techs kick you around, regular attacks don't do nearly as much, and your HP is massive. Also consider about 60% or more of every enemy in the game cast techs. Woo.

[Phaze37]

I doubt I could avoid techs all the time though... I'm the kind of person who equips 3 resist/devils before every temple run, theres always that one lilly that manages to hit me with it's megid. If 60% of the enemies use techs, that's pretty huge compared to PSO.

[kazuma56]

Correct me if i'm wrong? but didn't sue in PSO also say something about the randomness of Numan lifespans also?

As for races, play what you want, if ST has a crazy amount of gear for you to use your race most likely will just need more "gear" to be on par with someone of the other race who's "fitted" more for X class.