You, my friend, are a gimp hunter.

[Kaply]

So after having played all 3 classes to some extent, I've come to the realization that there is a gimp way to play hunters. It's called using your normal attacks.

Now hear me out on this. Most skills and normal attacks are comparable in time to attack, however the difference in their damage potential is huge. Even at level one the damage potential is on average 25% more than their regular attacks. In addition to this, all PAs have at least the potential to double hit per attack used (that is on two different targets though). This is a huge difference in damage when multiple targets are factored in, on the magnitude of 2.5x more damage than your normal attack.

So it's not that hunters don't have PP problems it's that they're playing a gimp style. While everyone is using their PP to boost their damage, rangers with bullets, forces with techs, a few hunters are out there trying to "save" meseta and play in a gimp style.

[DizzyDi]

I don't think gimp is the proper term. Just cause a hunter isn't trying todo 100% of the damage he possibly can by spamming PAs 24/7 he shouldn't be called a gimp hunter.

[DiosGX]

You're saying using regular not photon art attacks ever makes you gimp?

All I see is "damage this damage that". You're ignoring the blatant accuracy deficiency in photon arts as compared to regular attacks.

Your point sucks, sorry.

[Kaply]

I play a beast hunter, accuracy issues be damned. They don't exist on par with the damage issue. I have over a 75% hit rate with skills (not the amount reduced) against even level or higher. The fact that I'm hitting more targets for more damage outweighs the one or two misses in the one combo. Note that the damage difference I'm estimating is a VERY conservative estimate.

[DiosGX]

This is on or offline, I'm curious.

Also wondering what level you are, what level your photon arts are, and what area you're fighting in. Level 28 twin saber photon art still misses sometimes for me in the final dungeon at level 84.

[Kaply]

Playing online, my highest hunter was 18 or so. But from 12?-18 I was fighting against level 16 mobs. I'm not saying I won't miss but the damage potential is a lot higher than just regular attacking as well as being faster to dishing out damage. The chance to hit multiple enemies/targets makes them a lot more advantageous.

Take the sword (two handed) PA, it can hit in a circle, while the range on it does seem short, being able to hit in a full circle allows it to do a lot more damag than just regular attacking. I'm not sure what the second combo does yet, I will level up the PA to find out.

Double daggers PA, it also hits in a circle, but can only hit 6 times, across 2+ targets with one combo activation. The second combo repeats the first one I believe. This attack activates as fast as two parts to the regular attack with double daggers (I think closer to one but not really timing it).

[Animosity]

it takes meseta to use photon arts?

[LoneVandal]

This topic is pretty retarded. You're saying because you have the option NOT to use PP constantly, and because some people do choose not to, they're gimps?

No shit PAs do massive damage, that is the entire point of HU, get close and do huge damage. Even your normal attacks do more damage than a Ranger's guns though, so there is no reason not to use them.

[Alpha-Hunter]

ditto ^ in that aspect it seems the same at PSO. I use my heavy attacks most of the time against higher opponents, but get smacked around often when i miss. if i'm patient and want to do it right i'll mix it up and not worry about doing max damage but will max out my survival. it's called strategic options or plain old play style, lol.

[uhawww]

Oh Snap!
A Coltoba!
Let Me Tornado Break It 8 Times!

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Zarbolord]

Hey! You killed it 8 times! O_o'''

[Weak]

So... You're saying if a hunter doesn't use half of their battle capabilities, they're gimped?

Who'd have thought?

[Fleece]

Morons, i use normal attacks most of the time until i NEED to use a PA, Say i gimp all my PA away on my weapons by just spamming like a small bundle of sticks then one of my team mates gets surrounded and starts to get raped.... i got no PP to help them so generally by saving my PP on my PA's im being a smart player not a gimp.... its the same as saying OMG this force spammed all his PP away now he cant heal. In your eyes would that make him a good player BECAUSE he spammed all his PP???

MEIRA-EDIT: I agree with what you say, but watch your language.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2006-10-31 12:01 ]</font>

[darthplagis]

obviously not using PA saves PP and slows down yr kill rate but hunters generally specialize in 1 or 2 wepon types so they generally limit there need for varied PA and go for varied photon wepons.

where as rangers have a limited spread of weps with no photon attributes so they use bullets. yes they constantly use PP but likley they((the rangers) have multiple wepon types (rifle in 1 slot shot in another and a mele wep as backup).

forces have even less choice with magic being 'junctioned' into the wepon, they NEED a few canes/wands and maybe a rod for the extended magic options and a mele as backup.

in my veiw PA are used as the hunters trade mark like a rangers accuracy or a forces TP & MST as hunters NEED to be close to kill they NEED to kill quick

[Gumbotron]

the tc has a point, although converyed rudely. firstly, it depends greatly on the choice of weapons. for me at least, having both level 20 spear and twin dagger PAs, i can say i use my normals only for clean up.

to put it in prespective:
a normal spear combo does 3 hits to 2 targets, at 100% normal damage (duh)
a PA spear combo does 2/5 hits to 2 targets, at 180% normal damage
the advantage from both hits and bonus is 180*5 / 100*3 = 300%

i can of course link the two combos together, but against most enemies, i'd be too close to my target to land my PA combo after my normal combo. so pp allowing... i will toast my pa combo first and go from there

---

the dagger combo is outright broken...
a normal twin dagger combo does 7 hits to 1 targets, at 100% normal damage (duh)
a PA twin dagger combo does 3/6 hits to 2 targets, at 155% normal damage
the advantage from both hits, targets and bonus is 155*6*2 / 100*7*1 = ~26x%

while the damage isn't huge (if you don't manage to catch a second target), the broken part stems from the circle aoe of this pa...
weak enemies are knocked back completely... i don't have to aim... hits are spread so i tag mobs for exp... guys around me just start dying...

---

to put pp into perspective, i pack 3 spears and 4 twin daggers
if i solo, i usually can clear 1 or 2 rank b level before i am out... costs 2xx to recharge each time
if i group.... i can usually make it just with the cubes within the levels to clear them...

---

however beyond those two.... not all pa combos are as nice....
for instance... the twin saber combo or the sword combo in my opinion are outright bad if used alone:
huge warmup, low hit count, huge cooldown (maybe i'll find them tolerable if i pack better swords and leveled up the pa, until then... they're garbage)

the twin saber pa combo gives me the impression that i need to chain my normal combo into my pa and then repeat the full chain... which doesn't sit well with my after being used to spamming daggers

[Vetto]

I find this funny; playing a Warrior/Hunter Type in EVERY MMO i ever played. I can safely Say playing the "gimp" style isn't Gimped... it THINKING! Why waste PA on weak monster you know you can take down easily, and Save the PA for LARGER STRONGER enemies, or if your strong enough save it all for the boss. Call me nuts but i think that playing smart. Hunter don't get that nice little ability to hide in the back and cast spells or shoot a gun. A good hunter in the middle of it all and need to save there heavy hit for when it matters.

[Diablohead]

Im sure a time will come later in the game where you used up all your PP and end up bumping in pack of 10 mobs with no PP to spare.

Don't you think sega thought of these things before? also note that a hunter probably has no ranged PA at all so they are always risking their lives in attacks.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Ok so by everyons logic there are zero people in the game purposely playing gimp to save money but waste everyone elses time and money, they are just "saving pp" even though they never use pp


If I play with a hunter and he rarely uses his pp and i join up with him again and im the leader, he gets the boot



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-09-20 12:28 ]</font>

[DiosGX]

All I'm seeing from some people in this thread is "omg damage". This isn't FFXI or an MMORPG. Not doing some odd 150 damage doesn't mean anything, you're not racing a clock here.

I'd rather play with intelligent people who don't get hit as opposed to some reckless nutcase who spams his photon arts in B ranks and dies constantly.

[Authenticate]

But it's fun getting ranked B or lower on every mission... S ranks are for people that know how to play, and we can't have people like that hanging around.

[Vetto]

On 2006-09-20 12:23, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Ok so by everyons logic there are zero people in the game purposely playing gimp to save money but waste everyone elses time and money, they are just "saving pp" even though they never use pp


If I play with a hunter and he rarely uses his pp and i join up with him again and im the leader, he gets the boot



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-09-20 12:28 ]</font>


My I love people Like you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif. Don't Worry I'd leave before you could boot i don't need people telling my how to play, what works for some people WORKS them using PA or not has no effect on you what so ever the whole. "Well if i have to you should have to angle" is pretty weak.

[Blackwaltz-R]

"If I suck, everyone else must also suck too" *makes a thread*

[DiosGX]

"Oh my God this hunter isn't using his PHOTON ARTS to open these boxes. He's wasting half a second of time in this party. MAKE THE BOXES BLEED FASTER, HUNTER."

Get real.

[anmato145]

Smart players > Rich Players.

[Vetto]

Players Having FUN> Smart players> Rich players.

[Vetto]

>>'

I Know you are but what Am I. -hides-

[Blackwaltz-R]

Smart players have more fun than players playing for fun.

[anmato145]

Agreed lol

[Blackwaltz-R]

Who are the first to get mad about exploits? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Polly]

On 2006-09-20 13:24, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Smart players have more fun than players playing for fun.



Sometimes. Then again I've also seen super serious stat whores freak out over the smallest +s or -s and make it seem like it's the end of the world too. The end of the world isn't fun :(

[Blackwaltz-R]

On 2006-09-20 13:28, Triela wrote:


On 2006-09-20 13:24, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Smart players have more fun than players playing for fun.



Sometimes. Then again I've also seen super serious stat whores freak out over the smallest +s or -s and make it seem like it's the end of the world too. The end of the world isn't fun http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Yeah I can't deny that.

[anmato145]

Hey Waltz, remember this? (offtopic) I'LL GET YOU FOR THIS GADGET!

[Kaply]

Ok, guess most people said their points by now.

People are free to play their characters however they feel like. But if you aren't using your PAs most of the time, then you're holding back your characters potential.

If you're afraid you'll run out of PP for important areas, start carrying extra weapons. You are NOT limited to carrying only six weapons that fit on the hotbar. Your character has room to carry 60 items, at least 45 of which you can fully devote to weapons if you wanted to.

PAs with regards to other weapon types PAs.

One handed saber has one nice benefit in it's PA. The second part of the combo can do a LOT of damage, I believe it's 200% for one hit, that can send multiple enemies flying, good to clear out breathing room, not good if you have people that want to bunch up enemies. Also the first attack can launch enemies into the air reducing their attacks.

Twin sabers has the benfit of launching in it's first PA combo. I can't remember what the damage is for the second part, will check that later.

Fists PA, very unwieldly in the first combo part. Dashes left and right to attack. Need further testing to see how second part of the combo compares.

[anmato145]

On 2006-09-20 12:23, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Ok so by everyons logic there are zero people in the game purposely playing gimp to save money but waste everyone elses time and money, they are just "saving pp" even though they never use pp


If I play with a hunter and he rarely uses his pp and i join up with him again and im the leader, he gets the boot



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by:
Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-09-20 12:28 ]</font>


Aka: Play how I want you to play or go away?

[Vetto]

Wouldn't it be a MORE waste of time to have to stop and change out all 6 hot bar weapons with differnt ones case you ran out of PP?

[Itsuki]

Personally, alot of the time I think that using the PA could be bad. If theres no reason to use PAs, then why use them? Forces are there to do the damage. The speed at which things die really isn't increased that much by empty 12 weapons. I can see a good person in any class emptying ~3-4 weapons for a normal run, hunters included. Any more than that is excessive.

- PAs can be comboed off of normal attacks
- PAs spread out enemies, making you have to walk and making your party members deal less damage in some situations.
- Changing weapons is slow
- PAs are slow and can result in you getting hit.

Against bosses and big mobs, I can see spamming PAs as the obvious choice, but in most situations, it seems pretty useless to waste PP like that. Only marginal benefit for the cost.

[DiosGX]

Vetto:

No see when you switch your six hundred weapons around you're multiplying the exponential factor's square root which is the axis tilt of the earth in coagulation with the rotation of the fourth moon of Saturn in its southern vector this causes you to save time by switching weapons instead of using adaptive skill that would vary with circumstance

Duh.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DiosGX on 2006-09-20 16:37 ]</font>

[A2K]

I'm curious as to whether or not there will be a different photon art for double sabers in Network Mode. The basic one in Story Mode would seem rather broken online if everyone had it.

[DiosGX]

Dunno how it would be online, but off it takes 20PP to use it, and best double saber I have gotten so far has about 225PP. Not exactly a long duration weapon to be using its art.

[Kaply]

double sabers online, Rank C 2 stars GRM version has 216 PP.

[Alexandrious1]

Back in PSO I usually carried a long distance gun Holy Ray, a repeated gun *Charge vulcs love em* my preferred weapon style *S-Rank Twin Swords Masamune, yes the bugged s-rank -_-* and a Big sword for mob control *usually Red Sword*

Edit: Oh yea and a pair of S-Rank Sasuke J-Cutters, god those are fun.

I dunno how id have it setup for this, Id probably have twin sabers packed away, a Double Saber, Saber and Gun combo *I dunno never did find out if hunters can Duel wield two guns can someone tell me this?* and a saber mechgun combo, and a big sword. But this is a totally different game to PSO concerning battle mechanics, so id have to mess with it and see what weapons Id usually bring to the battle field.

As for PP regulating, id probably conserve on PP, balance it out really, use a move to finish off a mob if I know its gonna die in that specials hits, when PP of the weapon reaches 20 percent ill switch it out to another weapon, only switch back to use if its nessecary like saving a teammate.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-09-20 17:42 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-09-20 17:43 ]</font>

[Alisha]

thats like saying anyone in pso that used any attack other than the special attack is gimp.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I only use PAs when I have to, like in dangerous situations or tough monsters, not on weak monsters or boxes, and also, its impracticle to just spam PAs all the time since eventually, I'll have 0 PP and it'll have to refill again, leaving me to do normal attacks.

[SonicTMP]

If your going to spam PA's you need rougly 4-6 weapons to get thru a mission. Since PA damage is based on a % it tends to be more effective if you buy the best weapons avaible. Seeing as the better the weapon the more expensive it is, your going to find yourself in the hole by weapon X 6 + 6 PA's + armor + units + heal items. It's not simply about saving your cash for PP refills. Gimp nothing, if you don't have the cash you can't go PA spam crazy cause you simply dont have the equipment.

[JAR]

Is the point of all this PP efficiency to save $$$, because there is an item group that refills PP(Circle Dot: Don't know what they're called I don't read nippon) and as far as I've experienced warrior class character are traditionally item dependant. I mean it's good to be thrifty but I'm not above burning a few items in order to keep the PA train rolling if the situation calls for it.

[DiosGX]

Money isn't the concern, and in fact I personally prefer spamming arts early on to level them up, that way they don't need to be used so much later on. Just doing some weak sauce soloing to build up the basic level of the art so it's useful. Thing is, you don't want to blast all your PP because you need it last the duration of the mission. Rather, at least until the next photon cube to refill.

You need some type of conservation/filler. It's like rice in a chicken bowl, or something.

[Kaply]

With the US release and having grouped with some mid level hunters I would just like to bump this one back to the top. I'm not saying we did bad, but we could have done so much better.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

yeah, and I would like to say that spamming PAs isn't the way to go. I'm not gonna use my PA on a weak enemy for example, I would prefer to save it for a strong enemy like a boss or a mob of delsabans and vahras(which are like the boomas and deminians of this game, gosh I hate those guys). The only valid reason I see to spam PAs is to level them up or a strong enemy.

[Alisha]

i think spamming pa's is better for some weapons than others especially in the case of swords. maybee spears too since i cant stand using spears for regular melee hits.

[DreamLocke]

Spamming PA's is only useful when soloing and trying to buff your PA levels. In a team, you have to at least try to be conservative. You never know when you have to get a friend or yourself out of a jam.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

yeah, I don't really like the normal attack animations for either the swords or the spears, too slow for the former and tough to hit something in the latter, though I do like how the stabs make the spears unique to the swords.

[wildstar]

I use PA's as often as make sense (basically every time enemies are bunched up). I make sure I'm at just about o PP when I get to the next recharger, on all my weapons. This way I do lots of damage and I'm leveling up my PA's quickly. The 600 meseta per s-rank Relics run (plus drops) way more than pays for the PA-recharges at the end of each block.

Plus... they're fun and helpful! Rising Strike and Rising (whatever the Twin one is called) are great for lifting enemies in the air and disrupting their attacks on the team. I usually use my twins for regular waves of monsters and save my single saber (Sava Seta, Rising Strike PA) for the bigger sub-bosses and end boss, since I have 2 combos on it. Total carnage!

[Wheatpenny]

Oh my god.blah blah blah.Calm down.Yes Photon Arts...do them as muchs as possible.In a exp pty not spamming them does not make you gimp,Its caled photon conservation.Personaly now that I have a Claymaud manufactued and enougb of a PP spread to unleash the fury mitch,so to speak, I do spam it.But don't hand out some bull about being gimp just because someone doesen't spam the ability.That's just bad form.

[Kaply]

The thing is, there are no "weak" enemies once you get out of c rank. Things don't die to one hit after rank C anymore. The faster the enemies dies, the more meseta, item drops and job xp the group can get. The slower the enemies die, the more you put the burden on other people or yourself (Rare to see a HU use mates but, meh, technically possible) to keep you healed or status free.

[FenixStryk]

Not spamming PAs isn't gimped, it's called conserving PP for important parts, and saving a few meseta.

[Alisha]

please its not like this is ffxi where efficiency is king. plus sometimes using normal attacks helps me work my way behind an enemy.

[Nayte]

In my opinion spammming PAs (all the time) would be the stupidest thing to do ever. The clever way to play would be knowing when to use PAs. Im not saying this becuase it saves money on charges, im saying this because it makes sense.
Anyone who has played FFXI and played Black mage would know that spamming the highest level spell you have continously would ultimately get you killed.
There are also some PAs that take time to charge (knuckle PA, dagger PA etc) and leave you open whereas a simple combo could have finished the job.
By the way; normal attack combo then chainin a PA at the end makes much more sense than spamming PAs.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

just so you know, online isn't timed, the only things that determine s-rank is if all the monsters are dead and if nobody in the party dies once. well, maybe I should redefine my meaning of weak enemies to enemies that are less strong than others. like sendillians and pannons are less dangerous than delsabans for example.

[Deja]

Well if you ever play with me, I got through 7-8 Spears using all the PP I can. I'm at lvl 19 on Dus Daggas. I play like 250 meseta per refill (not much as you guys, but a ton for a hunter).

[_Deliverance_]

::sniff sniff:
Do you guys smell something? Smells like... like....failure.

[Alisha]

On 2006-10-31 08:36, _Deliverance_ wrote:
::sniff sniff:
Do you guys smell something? Smells like... like....failure.



haha and for your punishment say relics 100 times XD

[Dai-Kitana]

Play how you want. Not to appease others.

[Aegias]

Some people dont know how to play on an MMO?

News to me.

Keep your play style to yourself, if you want to teach people how to play better write a guide. Then its up to the reader to decide if your play style suits them, or if theirs is "better" than yours. If you don't like how other hunters play, you dont have to party with them. You can just play with your friends who might actually listen to your rabble, that is if you have friends.

[Shango]

I don't know why everyone who thinks spamming PPs will somehow make you not have PPs "when you need em". Like a person on page 2 said, I carry 3 spears, 4 twin daggers and that's all you really need. Spear for huge damage, daggers for fantastic AOE potential.

I use my regular attacks every now and then (boxes, single weak monsters) but if there's two or more fresh monsters on the field within the same PA range, they are getting slammed (assuming the others in group have had a chance to tag them)

I don't agree with running in and AOEing things so fast that everyone can't tag them all (even though with the broken twin daggers I truely can) but a few seconds into the fight if everything is still bunched up they are getting PA spammed to death.

I agree with the OP, I consider using my regular attacks pretty gimp compared to twin dagger PA and spear PA and carry more than enough weapons to stretch through any mission, so your arguments about "running dry when you need em" aren't there yet for me. Granted this may change in the high game, but as long as mobs still group up, I'll still be in there dancin with my daggers, spammin PA



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shango on 2006-10-31 09:07 ]</font>

[Nagidar]

Wow, just wow....

[Yoruichi]

I dunno what fleece is talking about, I carry tons of 3-5star weapons I pay atleast 200 meseta a rechage. I use PAs more than I swing most of the time, specially relic runs, I'm pretty sure I outdamage most players.

[Alisha]

On 2006-10-31 09:06, Shango wrote:
I don't know why everyone who thinks spamming PPs will somehow make you not have PPs "when you need em". Like a person on page 2 said, I carry 3 spears, 4 twin daggers and that's all you really need. Spear for huge damage, daggers for fantastic AOE potential.

I use my regular attacks every now and then (boxes, single weak monsters) but if there's two or more fresh monsters on the field within the same PA range, they are getting slammed (assuming the others in group have had a chance to tag them)

I don't agree with running in and AOEing things so fast that everyone can't tag them all (even though with the broken twin daggers I truely can) but a few seconds into the fight if everything is still bunched up they are getting PA spammed to death.

I agree with the OP, I consider using my regular attacks pretty gimp compared to twin dagger PA and spear PA and carry more than enough weapons to stretch through any mission, so your arguments about "running dry when you need em" aren't there yet for me. Granted this may change in the high game, but as long as mobs still group up, I'll still be in there dancin with my daggers, spammin PA



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shango on 2006-10-31 09:07 ]</font>


carrying multiple weapons so you have tons of pp wont work unless they are all green wich is even more gimp you need to match your weapons to the elements of the enemies.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

I spam PA's untill there's about 2 mobs left, then ill just finish them off with normal attacks to save pp

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-10-31 09:23, Alisha wrote:

carrying multiple weapons so you have tons of pp wont work unless they are all green wich is even more gimp you need to match your weapons to the elements of the enemies.



Your crazy, you don't need to match your element unless you get lucky and get a 20% or higher weapon to make it noticeable. You can carry 1 great weapon and auto swing and sometimes PA for 30% more damage sometimes or always bring weapons that work on some of the enemies some of the time and increase your damage output as a whole.

[Nagidar]

" just so you know, online isn't timed, the only things that determine s-rank is if all the monsters are dead and if nobody in the party dies once. well, maybe I should redefine my meaning of weak enemies to enemies that are less strong than others. like sendillians and pannons are less dangerous than delsabans for example. "


Actually, it is timed, you just don't see the clock, I've gone through an entire mission, killed every Mob w/out anyone dieing and got an A rank because the "Trial Time" was under 100%.

[Yoruichi]

thats your time in the party not time doing the mission I believe

[Shango]

On 2006-10-31 09:34, Yoruichi wrote:
thats your time in the party not time doing the mission I believe



Agreed, I have gone AFK during a solo mission and walked away for quite a while to come back, finish it, and still get S rank.

[Nagidar]

"thats your time in the party not time doing the mission I believe"


If it is, than how come I can solo through a mission, kill all the enemies and still get a A rank? (Serious question, this happened to me before)

[Alisha]

On 2006-10-31 09:27, Yoruichi wrote:

On 2006-10-31 09:23, Alisha wrote:

carrying multiple weapons so you have tons of pp wont work unless they are all green wich is even more gimp you need to match your weapons to the elements of the enemies.



Your crazy, you don't need to match your element unless you get lucky and get a 20% or higher weapon to make it noticeable. You can carry 1 great weapon and auto swing and sometimes PA for 30% more damage sometimes or always bring weapons that work on some of the enemies some of the time and increase your damage output as a whole.


let me clairify that i havent played online yet and offline ive synthed weapons with 30% element. i also got 30% light knuckles from s-ranking a boss.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-10-31 09:43 ]</font>

[Yoruichi]

Ah, well online missions unless your severly overleveled and geared takes awhile 1 weapon autoswinging slows this down even more. That will make it also boring just autoswinging. Spamming PAs with the occasional swinging ups fun factor and progress. Right now I carry atleast 4 to 5 weapons not counting 2in1(gun/saber), only time I preserve PP is on LL boss runs wheres theres no recharge and I only save my light knuckles for the boss incase it survives nanoblast.

[Alisha]

i currently carry
generic bone dancer<----i dont really like using it because tornado dance is rediculously overpowered
light shot gun/dark claw
dark dual claws
earth knuckles
lightning sword(ascalon)
ice shot gun/fire single daggar

[Yoruichi]

Current online max is 5 star B rank unless rare drops and formulas are found

Ice calibur
Shadow calibur
TW autogun/TW saber
GRM autogun/light florescentbulb
Light Brass knuckles

currently making earth knuckles since I see so many mini bosses and captains lighting based and soon going to make lighting weapons for robo runs.

[perdition]

Morons, i use normal attacks most of the time until i NEED to use a PA, Say i gimp all my PA away on my weapons by just spamming like a fag then one of my team mates gets surrounded and starts to get raped.... i got no PP to help them so generally by saving my PP on my PA's im being a smart player not a gimp

Amen http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[KirinDave]

If people demand a good reason for not using PAs constantly that is supported by game mechanics...

Spamming PAs makes it much harder for rangers and forces to tag enemies for experience. Some PAs send enemies flying, which is just a nightmare as a force. We are all aware you can burn out a weapon and do amazing damage, and that's great. Please do that when the damage potential isn't hurting other's experience gain, like at bosses. Missions are timed, but the timer is extremely generous, so if you're killing things before everyone can tag them, you're hurting your party for no real gain.

Or don't, but then you shouldn't expect much in the way of healing. It's a two-way street, and if you cheat me on items or experience (and believe me, I am tagging them as fast as I can!), you're on your own for healing. Actually, odds are you'll be on your own for everything after a 5 minutes of experience hogging.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-10-31 11:04 ]</font>

[Kaply]

On 2006-10-31 11:03, KirinDave wrote:
If people demand a good reason for not using PAs constantly that is supported by game mechanics...

Spamming PAs makes it much harder for rangers and forces to tag enemies for experience. Some PAs send enemies flying, which is just a nightmare as a force. We are all aware you can burn out a weapon and do amazing damage, and that's great. Please do that when the damage potential isn't hurting other's experience gain, like at bosses. Missions are timed, but the timer is extremely generous, so if you're killing things before everyone can tag them, you're hurting your party for no real gain.

Or don't, but then you shouldn't expect much in the way of healing. It's a two-way street, and if you cheat me on items or experience (and believe me, I am tagging them as fast as I can!), you're on your own for healing. Actually, odds are you'll be on your own for everything after a 5 minutes of experience hogging.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-10-31 11:04 ]</font>


If the enemies are dead faster I don't expect to have to get healed much. Which also means that a FO has more time to cast offensive spells (ra versions) to tag enemies. Especially in B rank missions or higher. Losing out on one or two enemies isn't going to hurt much. I lose out even more when the party takes longer to go through fights and consequently making the FO focus more on healing instead.

If the missions gets done faster I still expect to average out the same amount of xp but with more loot and job xp.

[Vhex]

I have level 20 PAs, and they never fail to dish out way more damage than regular attacks, hit more enemies, look amazing, and since they are maxxed out they regenerate quickly for often use because they only cost like 12 PP.

>Fun Fact, leveling PAs not only increases damage and combo length, but also accuracy and a reduction of PP cost.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-10-31 11:19, Kaply wrote:
If the enemies are dead faster I don't expect to have to get healed much. Which also means that a FO has more time to cast offensive spells (ra versions) to tag enemies. Especially in B rank missions or higher. Losing out on one or two enemies isn't going to hurt much. I lose out even more when the party takes longer to go through fights and consequently making the FO focus more on healing instead.

If the missions gets done faster I still expect to average out the same amount of xp but with more loot and job xp.


All I am saying is, there is the maximum speed you can kill at, and there is a speed your party can comfortably move at. Please do not confuse my stance with "Go Slow." It's more like, "Go as fast as your party can." This may be faster or slower depending on your teammates and how well you work together.

You are not a gimp hunter if you vastly overpower everyone else and hold back to make sure that everyone gets a fair amount of xp. That's called being the Best Kind of Hunter.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-10-31 11:39 ]</font>

[Sev]

I still say it's really to each his own. PA's are useful, there's no doubt, but I'm still going to use my regular attacks fairly often. It's just the way that I play, and spamming PA's isn't always the best thing for your health. I mean, you still have PP limitations, and if you use weapons catered toward Ele weaknesses, it's not really a great idea to just unload all the PP on one group of enemies and then just switch weapons.

Normally I'll PA my way into the group, find a speciffic target, get behind it, and use 2 parts of my combo before PA'ing again. I really like to just save PP for when the mobs are grouped up well and I can hit multi targets. Gimp or not, my teammates don't complain so it's all good in the end.

[Ceresa]

No area requires more then 3 different elements, so you should have 18 weapons or so, 3 to each element, 6 on bar, 3 as backups, and the rest in your room until you change hunting areas and need to change it up.

3 star weapons are damn cheap, making a ton of those to spam PA with is more effective then buying 1 or 2 4-5star stuff and using their normal atk. Then you slowly replace all the 3s with 5, then 7-8, and so on as money permits.

Using normal attacks when there's more then one mob is just slowing everyone down, how is that being a team player?

[R3Dirkulous]

ummm gimp?? I strongly disagree, Theres numerous reasons to not use your PA over and over and it sure as heck isnt cuz of meseta.

[Zato-2TWO]

Oh my god.

I never wanted to hear the word gimp used seriously on this game. Saying something is gimp is like saying "You suck for using this".

So now we're gonna get people looking down on HUs using normal attacks? What kind of retarded monarchy has this become, where people are gonna be hounding on HUs for not throwing out PAs constantly? What next, "EVERYONE USE DOUBLE DAGGERS AND SPEARS, EVERYTHING ELSE MAKES YOU GIMP"?

I fear Parn was right when he went on his conformation speal.

"EVERY HU MUST BE BEAST, EVERY RA MUST BE CAST, EVERY FO MUST BE NEWM. EVERYTHING ELSE GIMPS THE PARTY AND SLOWS XP PER HOUR"

Seriously, SERIOUSLY, everyone just CALM THE HELL DOWN. All you pro-'Normal Attacks are Gimp' guys, keep it to yourselves and don't tell anyone else how to play the game; it's nice that you made an observation on it, but don't try to conform everyone to your ideals. All you pro-'I PLAY HOW I WANT, SCREW GIMP' guys, keep it to yourselves. No need to tear on someone for doing something they wanted to do, and even if it IS in defense of keeping from conforming, don't take it any farther than a simple "no".



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2006-10-31 12:04 ]</font>

[AlphaMinotaux]

i do the normal 3 hit combo and add the PA at the end of the combo :/ i guess im gimp

[Elleranda]

On 2006-10-31 11:03, KirinDave wrote:
If people demand a good reason for not using PAs constantly that is supported by game mechanics...

Spamming PAs makes it much harder for rangers and forces to tag enemies for experience. Some PAs send enemies flying, which is just a nightmare as a force. We are all aware you can burn out a weapon and do amazing damage, and that's great. Please do that when the damage potential isn't hurting other's experience gain, like at bosses. Missions are timed, but the timer is extremely generous, so if you're killing things before everyone can tag them, you're hurting your party for no real gain.

Or don't, but then you shouldn't expect much in the way of healing. It's a two-way street, and if you cheat me on items or experience (and believe me, I am tagging them as fast as I can!), you're on your own for healing. Actually, odds are you'll be on your own for everything after a 5 minutes of experience hogging.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-10-31 11:04 ]</font>


If you're in a party that has people that are killing things before you can tag them, maybe you should find a party more suited to your character level and skill level?

Not trying to be mean or anything, but I hate it when worse players try to get me to dumb myself down so they don't feel useless.

However, I've never looked down at anyone for playing a certain way or using a certain race/class combo, so don't think I'm one of those elitist beasts. >.>

[NightStorm]

Hooray Zato-2TWO you said it best. If you start to prescribe to the posters train of thought then everyone will have to box themselves in to a stereotype of char, same weps for same races, so on and so-forth. The whole point of creating a char and playing with other people instead of playing a game solo is that you get to meet and play with others, learn peoples personalities, maybe even make some new friends. What makes us all special is what makes us unique. There are pros and cons to everyone and everything. If you take out all the variety, things get boring rather quick. I love the diversity that this game provides. Its called OPTIONS.

[TheStoicOne]

I think we wouldn't have had this problem if they didn't take out the hard attack...-_-

[Jasam]

YOU MUST USE SPEARS AND DAGGERS OF THE BEST ELEMENT OF S RANK WHILE SPAMMING PA's FOR BEST EXP!!!111


So.... who wantsa to point out that you won't always be able to rely on this mentality anyway?

(notes that you should look at expert classes ^-^)

Seriously, anyone who says the word "gimp" should go back to FFXI and stay there.

[Cigaro]

Shut up.

Shut up.

SHUT UP.

SHUT UP.

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP EVERYONE SHUT UP PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JUST SHUT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK UUUUUUUUUUUUUUP

[Shango]

Haha you people are way too sensitive. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Cigaro]

I want to play PSU.

I don't want the game to be ruined like WoW was.

[VanHalen]

ooh i got an idea how about YOU PLAY THE DAMN GAME AND STOP TALKING ABOUT WHAT DOES THE BEST DAMAGE!!!. come on seriously i like the guides to different things but must we analyze this game to the point it becomes a science and not a game? and crap about this weapon is better then the other(freaking saber never did me anygood). can we please play for fun people?

[UltimateCarl]

I just want to play devil's advocate for a bit...

Yeah, the OP was a jerk and could've stated that better. Yes, you should play the way you want to play. After all, it's a GAME. Games are supposed to be FUN. How fun can it be if you don't do it the way you want?

That aside, I'm not buying a lot of this. What's so wrong with wanting to play as effectively as possible? PAs do more damage, yes. No, damage isn't the most important thing in the entire game, but you guys act like wanting to do the most damage possible is the worst sin a person can commit.

You say to play for fun, but for some people, that IS the fun. I myself am a bit of a perfectionist player. When I play offline RPGs, I want my party perfect. I want the max levels, the best equipment, etc. Something deep down inside me feels accomplished when my party completely dominates, and I think it's FUN. It's only natural that this crosses over into online RPGs.

It's been made clear here that, yes, there are plenty of situations where normal attacks are good, so you shouldn't spam PAs constantly or anything. However, it has also been made clear that it's possible to have a majority of your attacks be PAs without going broke. If that's possible and PAs do more damage, then why NOT use them most of the time? Furthermore, PAs look cool and make you feel powerful, which is fun. Fun is still the most important thing, is it not?

You guys like stereotyping, but do you still like it if it goes the other way? ZOMG LETS ALL PLAY CAST FORCES SO WE CAN ALL TAG THINGS EASY AND WE DONT KILL TOO FAST AND NEVER SWITCH TO EXPERT CLASSES OR USE OUR SUVS CUZ THEYRE EXPENSIVE AND LETS NOT USE TOO MANY TECHS CUZ ITEMS AND RESTORING PP ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE. Seriously, you guys send out mixed messages. "Don't care about your damage, have fun!" Umm... I have MORE fun when I do a lot of damage, as I'm sure most people do. "Don't act like damage is the most important thing! Don't use your PAs all the time for damage because it's expensive!" Umm... So damage isn't the most important thing, instead money is? "Using PAs sparingly is called TACTICS and SKILL." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought tactics were used to defeat your enemy in the best and quickest way possible? How exactly is doing less damage good tactics?

I'm also not buying the whole PAs letting your party members kill things before you can tag them. If they can dominate things THAT easily, you should be challenging stronger stuff! Besides, you guys are coming along with your double standards again. You don't want someone to tell you how to play, but you think some random Hunter is going to stop using PAs so much just because you want him to? How fun would THAT be? Besides, if anything that means the player is really good. You don't think to yourself, "Damn you, Einstein! Why did you have to be so smart and think up all of your science and math theories before I could?!" do you?

Eh, in the end, I don't even care. Hell, I'm playing a Ranger, and I'll let people play how they want to play. I just felt I needed to say something because all of you guys getting so mad got me mad.

Not that I'm really mad AT you, cuz' I'm not. I didn't mean this message as an insult to anyone. I just felt it needed a different point of view. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[HolyWizard]

I don't know. My Beast Hunter is at 11 so I'm not too far. I constantly found myself saving money for something or another, first it was a 3-star sword (Breaker) as I want swords to be my primary weapon and I got it. So really, my best weapon was the breaker by far and I'm still using it as my primary and only weapon(using tornado break naturally) as I was saving up for a 2-star armor for 2400. I finally got that.

Next step, secondary weapon, I want that to be knuckles and I want it to be the highest level knuckles I can use given my ATP. These are 3-star knuckles at the moment that sell for 2000. It takes a small while to get this money and once I get it, it's gone.

The point is, maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't really use 4-5 different weapons yet and spam PP like crazy. On the other hand, I don't see myself running out of PP THAT quickly as a hunter. I will say though, that I can't buy more weapons at this point, nor can I spend money on pp refiilling items.

This doesn't mean I'm overly conservative on PAs, no. I use them given the tide of the battle. Tornado Break is an awesome PA and does lots of damage, however, it can leave me open to receive attacks. Naturally, I use them when I can tag three monsters and I think I won't get hit afterward. Using this method, running out of PP is rarely an issue, but I don't consider it "spamming" PAs either. I just use them given the situation.

The point is, I can see both sides of the argument. I'm just saying, I'm wondering how much meseta you get later in the game because for me right now, meseta IS an issue as I'm trying to save up for the latest equipment.

I'm just saying, buying all kinds of weapons for limitless PP and having every element attack covered simply cannot be done right now unless I stock on 1-star weapons, and 1-star weapons are near useless against 15+ monsters I would think.

Bottom line: I use PA given the battle I'm in. I'm trying to save money, but that doesn't mean I hold back. I'm trying to do max damage, but that doesn't mean I spam. This is how I fight and I hope it's understandable.

[HiKeRI]

On 2006-10-31 12:55, Cigaro wrote:
Shut up.

Shut up.

SHUT UP.

SHUT UP.

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP EVERYONE SHUT UP PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JUST SHUT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK UUUUUUUUUUUUUUP


LOL xD I laughted for a full 2min's by this post xDxD

[KirinDave]

On 2006-10-31 12:17, Elleranda wrote:
If you're in a party that has people that are killing things before you can tag them, maybe you should find a party more suited to your character level and skill level?


Oh. I see. "L2P." Sure. Because I am just not good enough to tag them. It's not because the hunters go suicidal when they see a force in the party, and kick me if I don't heal.

Look, if we can steamroll the level, I'm all for it. More S-ranks = good. But you have to ask yourself if your party is really strong enough to do it. A good indication of this is that you don't need the force to Resta 40 times. But if you can't, and you try to act like you can, you are going to screw your healers over. This isn't about skill, it's about the reality of the experience system.

I've learned to leave groups quickly if I have to heal too much, because it's a losing proposition for me. I do leave when the hunters go to fast, because most of the time it's because they burn the party's healer to do it.


Not trying to be mean or anything, but I hate it when worse players try to get me to dumb myself down so they don't feel useless.

You need to stop equating max damage with success. It's only like that on boss fights. When running a map, the equation is more complex. Are you going fast? Is everyone staying alive? Is everyone getting experience? Is anyone being forced to burn items to succeed? All of these are questions you ask about any party when figuring out if it is good.

[HiKeRI]

Maybe they can just act like there were no Forces on there party and the forces can do whatever they can do help the party.

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-10-31 16:55, HiKeRI wrote:
Maybe they can just act like there were no Forces on there party and the forces can do whatever they can do help the party.



Stop making sense

[Thrash777]

*opens door to thread to hear loud voices and expressive people*
*peeks in to see people at eachothers throats*
*flaming bog roll flies past*
*finds a cookie on the floor* ^_^

Wow, there's a lot of different people in here! o_O

*laughs*
*throws flaming bog roll over shoulder as he leaves*

[Sev]

On 2006-10-31 11:42, Ceresa wrote:
No area requires more then 3 different elements, so you should have 18 weapons or so, 3 to each element, 6 on bar, 3 as backups, and the rest in your room until you change hunting areas and need to change it up.

3 star weapons are damn cheap, making a ton of those to spam PA with is more effective then buying 1 or 2 4-5star stuff and using their normal atk. Then you slowly replace all the 3s with 5, then 7-8, and so on as money permits.

Using normal attacks when there's more then one mob is just slowing everyone down, how is that being a team player?




lol

If you get in a party with me somehow, you may as well just ask me to leave, ask the leader to kick me, or kick me yourself, because I'm simply not gonna do that. Ever. You have your methods, I have mine, and apparently they're conflicting.

I play 3 characters.

Chai Rai
Sev Voz
Dima Viole

And I plan to play a "Gimp" Hunter at some point on all 3 of them. And for the record, when I synth, I don't normally... No... I basically never make 3 types of each Element. I simply make what I think would be effective.

[Yoruichi]

I actually used Ceresa's method, works but only to a outgoing person. Auto attack does get the job done.

[Sev]

I don't think it's a bad method if you wanna go that route. Everyone has there own ways of playing... That's just the thing though. Everyone has there own ways. You can develop or use a certain method to play the game, but that's not going to be the same thing that everyone else is gonna do.

If I get in a party with someone who's using that type of method, it's not gonna bother me one bit. They're doing their thing, and I'm doing mine, that's all that I'm worried about... To me, as long as someone is doing their part of the team, I could care less on how they're doing it. I can't look down on someone elses way of play, that's why I don't really expect anyone to look at my style of play and tell me I should change it. I've never once had anyone tell me that I'm slowing the party down, and if I don't like what someone else is doing, I'll normally keep it to myself. Nothing goods going to come out of me opening my mouth (Learned from experience) and trying to tell someone what to do and how they should do it.

If people seriously hate what I'm doing in a party, then they should just kick me and blacklist me. It's just that much easier.

[Yoruichi]

Well its a console game at heart not a MMO, its not that serious. Even online is just about 100% soloable if you were real careful about it, so a slighty different style doesnt matter.

Personally I like PAs and wanted multiple PA styles so I carry multiple weapons just to burn photons. Only thing I've achieved is my style of play which I think is fun(think blademaster), a heafty recharge bill, and 3 weapon skills about 17 and 3 bullet arts above 8.

[Elleranda]

On 2006-10-31 16:52, KirinDave wrote
You need to stop equating max damage with success. It's only like that on boss fights. When running a map, the equation is more complex. Are you going fast? Is everyone staying alive? Is everyone getting experience? Is anyone being forced to burn items to succeed? All of these are questions you ask about any party when figuring out if it is good.

Yes, yes, yes and yes!

Like I said, play with people around your level.

[Sev]

Blademaster indeed heh. I've got 2 weapons around 17, and my Fists at 13. I just switched to Fists after deciding I wanted to go Fortefighter on my Beast, and after seeing people sweep kicking the hell out of monsters. And just so I don't miss my Single Dagger PA, I'm making my Cast a Figunner, I really love that PA to death.

It really isn't that serious, I just normally don't think about these things. I figured as long as I wasn't dying and ruining S-Rank, people wouldn't really care what I was doing. Of course, making things fall down is also part of my job, but I'm pretty sure I'm doing a decent job of that as well. I thought this topic died along time again anyway, what brought it back up to toward the top? Heh.

[Jozon]

I got sword, knuckles, and spear to 20, gonna start leveling dual sabers next

[Ryogen]

I don't agree. Everyone has their style of playing so you can't just say gimp...is that the proper term?

[Darkchampion3]

As long as your PAs arent throwing monsters all over the freaking map, I honestly dont care if you are doing 75% of your damage potential. If you just happily stand in front, absorb damage (evade as best you can) and group everything up, I'll keep you healed AND kill stuff http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kaply]

Holywizard, one of the key points of this post is that you can use a lower star weapon and still do more damage using PA attacks than a higher star damage using the normal attack. So in your situation, you could go back and buy 3x 3 star weapons instead of getting the 1x 4 star weapon and be a lot more effective.