High EVP bad for HU - Why Cast may be the best hunter of the

[Kaply]

This argument that I'm about to present hasn't been talked about a lot. One of the benefits that I'm finding that a cast may have is their higher DFP and LOWER EVP (as per the charts of level 60 hunter comparisons). Notice I include the fact that they have LOWER EVP than other races. This seems to defy all logic as getting hit for less and getting hit less would make them more survivable, etc. However, there is one detriment to being all that evasive. It INTERRUPTS PAs. What happens is your character will be performing a PA and if they avoid an attack, they do a blocking animation and that interrupts their PA causing you to lose the PP used and stopping it from continuing. The alternative is being hit, there are two types of hits, one being a light poke (low damage taken) and the other is hard pokes (high damage taken). In the case with low damage taken you can continue your PA while being hit. I can't recall specifically what happens in a hard hit, I'm tempted to say that you get knocked out of the PA animation, but my memory might be mixing it up with special attacks from enemies which purposely knockdown.

Anyway, to sum it up high EVP during a skill causes your character to stop further PA animation. Getting hit during a skill doesn't necessarily mean you will stop. All of this may change at higher levels if it ends up like PSO where evp doesn't do a thing at the higher levels.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaply on 2006-09-22 07:59 ]</font>

[peenk]

Agreed.
Not to mention higher accuracy.

[Phaze37]

Interesting. I'm changing my mind all the time as to what race I want to be. Right now I'm trying to decide whether I want to be a Cast Hunter or a Human Hunter. For a while I was set on being a Cast Hunter, but then someone pointed out that their low MST makes them take alot of damage from techs, and of course their low EVP means they won't be dodging much, and so I figured maybe a more balanced race (human) would be more survivable all-around. This makes a convincing argument in favour of me using a Cast. I probably won't be able to decide until I actually get the game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I remember in PSO how high DFP could sometimes be bad because you'd get combo'd to death instead of being knocked down on the first hit.

[Kaply]

I've had enemies smack me around while I was lying on the ground in PSU. Also note that this doesn't take into account end game fighting, since it's not even unlocked, which is why I'm saying that this effect is true for some levels.

In regards to higher accuracy issues, what you have to remember is that HU weapons have a ATP requirement, which means beast would equip higher weapons earlier which in turn provide more accuracy from the weapons itself.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaply on 2006-09-21 15:41 ]</font>

[DurakkenX]

kaply offline stats where you are taking those from are different from online stats. do not make assumptions based on those.

[vg_geek86]

If what ur saying is true, tis good news for me cause thats all I use =)

[DizzyDi]

Don't missed attacks simply show up as 0's, and there is no animation?

[watashiwa]

On monsters, missed or evaded attacks simply show up as 0 with no animation, yeah..
On players, it makes you do a block animation, similar to PSO, with a barrier showing up.

It *IS* a bit annoying how with high EVP and in the middle of a PA, if an enemy swings, it stops your PA... whereas if you're hit during the PA, you will continue it. (Provided the hit wasn't a really really hard hit knocking you back or down..)

[Alisha]

sounds like poor tactics. now im using pso as a reference here but in pso anytime i was using a melee weapon i always waited for monsters to commit to an attack then move to their side and attack this way if i miss i miss thier side giving me ample time to get out of the way to reposition myself.

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-21 21:40, Alisha wrote:
sounds like poor tactics.


Actually, sounds like you've never played the game!

Unlike PSO, and especially in missions higher than C rank, monsters don't ALWAYS flinch when you hit them. In PSO, you were guaranteed to flinch them as long as you registered 1 damage.

In PSU, you can hit them a few times and they won't flinch.

Since you've never played a game and probably didn't bother to watch the Shikon video I uploaded.. an example in that video is when I'm circling behind the big guy with the twin swords, I use my PA from behind him, and although I'm hitting him for 100+ multiple times, he can turn around during my PA and do a side swipe which will cause my character to block it and interrupt the PA.

[Alisha]

thanks for clearing that up.the reason i never watched your shikon video is because im on dial up till next week when the cable company comes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif.do monsters always make you flinch? if not that could be a logical purpose of what END is for :/

[watashiwa]

If you don't evade during a PA, usually the PA will continue, unless it hit pretty hard..

But, yeah, if you get hit while not doing a PA, you'll flinch.. the delay isn't nearly as bad as PSO, though. If you're running around and get hit, you can still keep running, you'll just do your flinch animation while running.. (Unlike PSO where you stopped in your tracks to take the hit.. and could get trapped..)

[Authenticate]

Metal Wolf Chaos is just pure hilarity.

I've only been interupted during PAs if I blocked or got hit hard enough to send me to the floor. It's also a bit harder to just hit things in the side. Some monsters seem to track your movement as they attack, or they just plain attack and jump away. Not all monsters do this, I'm just saying evading and countering doesn't work as well on some enemies.

[foamcup]

On 2006-09-21 15:27, Phaze37 wrote:
Interesting. I'm changing my mind all the time as to what race I want to be. Right now I'm trying to decide whether I want to be a Cast Hunter or a Human Hunter. For a while I was set on being a Cast Hunter, but then someone pointed out that their low MST makes them take alot of damage from techs, and of course their low EVP means they won't be dodging much, and so I figured maybe a more balanced race (human) would be more survivable all-around. This makes a convincing argument in favour of me using a Cast. I probably won't be able to decide until I actually get the game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I remember in PSO how high DFP could sometimes be bad because you'd get combo'd to death instead of being knocked down on the first hit.



Yeah, this is a lot to think about and consider, although I'm still pretty damn set on newman(and have been since the info was revealed way back when), all this new info is making me think of alternatives.

That high DFP causing one to get one's own ass handed to them was pretty lame, but I beat it out by using lower level armor, and that was just a happy side effect of the fact that I didn't toss out 4-slot armor until I found another 4-slot, lol. Of course, that didn't stop people from hitting me with Deband and asking wtf I was doing with only Shifta on. Jerks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Edit: YES! Metal Wolf Chaos is the joint!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: foamcup on 2006-09-21 23:29 ]</font>

[Zarbolord]

Casts apparently do good hunters. But you can say that the other classes give different bonuses, mostly will depend on your style then...

[Amalgam]

Wow you know that sounds REALLY REALLY gay. Seems to follow the same path most MMO games follow that if you don't match the right class or the right race up you are f*cked.

[Kyuu]

^ Not true in the least.

[Niki]

As a side note, my Offline Cast Hunter LV10 has lower Accuracy than my Online Beast Ranger LV10. I was surprised by that, but maybe I haven't been paying attention...

[ö_ô];;

[Ryogen]

I can't say I agree with you in anyway. I mean I never played it yet so I can't agree with you. All has a weakness and a strength, I belive no class is better than another. So I respect your post but can't agree with you.

[Eclypse]

No character will be the best because it all depends on the person controlling the character. You could have the most gifted character stat-wise, but if you suck then it really wouldn't matter would it?

[Zarbolord]

By 'style' I meant how you play AND what you like. The point is, would YOU make a good hunter? Not 'would a cast be a good hunter?'

[vg_geek86]

Sounds more like casts would be best for those that prefer an 'over-aggresive, dont let, in yo FACE ' style of fighting.

WINNAR FOR ME!

[-Shimarisu-]

Hello!

I am seeing that beasts make better hunters. I made a cast and he's sucking worse than my beast did at low levels, OK he is only lvl 10 but time shall tell!

Also I am just doing this because the game is fun, stats be damned!

[zofia]

The argument for low evasion (and why it's good, in a way) reminds me of DEF on FO's. I tended to like my FO's with low DEF in PSO, since a hit would knock them down and trigger instant-invulnerability for a second or two. Long enough to get off a resta or an offensive spell.

[Animosity]

On 2006-09-21 14:28, Kaply wrote:
All of this may change at higher levels if it ends up like PSO where evp doesn't do a thing at the higher levels.

[Zarbolord]

I think they've thought about that actually.

[Jozon]

Cast > Beast BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!

besides, Beast looks cooler http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ImmortalTio]

its too bad that PSU hasnt come to the US though...but i can wait 31 days....to create the ultimate Cast. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kaply]

Well, there are other things to consider for end game purposes. Beasts do have higher HP compared to casts. If chance of being knocked down is based upon damage done vs. overall hp, then beasts do have a slight advantage towards endgame when enemies may start ignoring your EVP. The chances of me getting to endgame is very very low which is why casts may be more beneficial for my purposes. (although I still play a beast just because they look better than robos)

[DONTOSE]

casts are the best hunters but think about this- since casts have great ATA wouldnt they make great rangers they would never miss a shot they would make great snipers and no one would be able to even get nere thats how good a ranger cast is.

[Dre_o]

On 2006-09-22 05:50, -Shimarisu- wrote:

Also I am just doing this because the game is fun, stats be damned!



SOMEONE IS FINALLY GETTING IT!!!! You're going to be interrupted/knocked down/damaged NO MATTER WHAT!

Just deal with it and be happy, k?

[Flamingo99]

On 2006-09-25 13:59, DONTOSE wrote:
casts are the best hunters but think about this- since casts have great ATA wouldnt they make great rangers they would never miss a shot they would make great snipers and no one would be able to even get nere thats how good a ranger cast is.



Casts are the best (stat wise) Rangers. They start out as a Ranger when you make the game. You seem to be making the assumption (not only in this post) that PSU is a remake of PSO, which it is not. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I see your relatively new to the boards. I'm jletting you know, so when you get the game, your not disappointed.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flamingo99 on 2006-09-25 14:54 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2006-09-21 23:28, foamcup wrote:


On 2006-09-21 15:27, Phaze37 wrote:
Interesting. I'm changing my mind all the time as to what race I want to be. Right now I'm trying to decide whether I want to be a Cast Hunter or a Human Hunter. For a while I was set on being a Cast Hunter, but then someone pointed out that their low MST makes them take alot of damage from techs, and of course their low EVP means they won't be dodging much, and so I figured maybe a more balanced race (human) would be more survivable all-around. This makes a convincing argument in favour of me using a Cast. I probably won't be able to decide until I actually get the game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I remember in PSO how high DFP could sometimes be bad because you'd get combo'd to death instead of being knocked down on the first hit.



Yeah, this is a lot to think about and consider, although I'm still pretty damn set on newman(and have been since the info was revealed way back when), all this new info is making me think of alternatives.

That high DFP causing one to get one's own ass handed to them was pretty lame, but I beat it out by using lower level armor, and that was just a happy side effect of the fact that I didn't toss out 4-slot armor until I found another 4-slot, lol. Of course, that didn't stop people from hitting me with Deband and asking wtf I was doing with only Shifta on. Jerks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Edit: YES! Metal Wolf Chaos is the joint!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: foamcup on 2006-09-21 23:29 ]</font>


I would wish that the high dfp would be like PSO in this game, that way casts can have a weakness if they want to go Hunter. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif

[ImmortalTio]

although they have great ATA, their ATK should be nothing to sniff at. All the way with HUcaesals for me!!!!!! (pardon if there was a mistranslation)

[DONTOSE]

THANKS FOR GIVING ME THE HEADS UP Flamingo99
YOU REALY LET ME KNOW WHAT IM DOING WRONG NEXT TIME ILL KNOW BETTER THEN TO THINK PSU WAS GOING TO BE ANY THING LIKE PSO

[Flamingo99]

On 2006-09-25 15:10, DONTOSE wrote:
THANKS FOR GIVING ME THE HEADS UP Flamingo99
YOU REALY LET ME KNOW WHAT IM DOING WRONG NEXT TIME ILL KNOW BETTER THEN TO THINK PSU WAS GOING TO BE ANY THING LIKE PSO



Oh, Alrighty then. Here are some of your quotes.

"I think only casts are able to become protransers because they were the only ones that were able to use traps in pso in the first place." Found here:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=118929&forum=20

Here your applying what you know about PSO and transfering it to PSU. Casts are not the only ones who can use traps now buddy.


"casts are the best hunters but think about this- since casts have great ATA wouldnt they make great rangers they would never miss a shot they would make great snipers and no one would be able to even get nere thats how good a ranger cast is." Found here: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=119594&forum=20

The HUcast was arguably the best Hunter you can pick. Of course Casts would make great Rangers, your only stating a fact that pretty much everyone knows.

About SUV's
"thats just so cool that casts can use suvweapion and thier just like photon blasts but what about does other classes like humens and newmens what can they do I dont think its fair that casts and bests can use cool moves like suvweapions and nanoblasts which are like photon blasts. and humens & newmens cant do any thing cool like that." Found Here: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=119793&forum=20

Beasts and Casts where given special abilities to balance them out from humans and newhumans. Humans can be decent in any class. A newman has the best TAP. These two aspects of the characters acts as a bonus.

"Im going to have a cast hunter named Dontose and he will be the greatest most powerful of them all casts have the most ATA & DFP AND THEY CAN USE SUV WEAPIONS----THEY ALSO NOW HAVE THE POWER TO USE TECHNIQUES LIKE FOE ZONDE BARTA ETC EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL RECOVERY MOVE RESTA THATS WHAT MAKES CASTS IN PSU SO POWERFUL" Found Here: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=119656&forum=20&start=45

... No comment has to be made here.

There's alot more where that came. You sound like a newb (I hate that word with a passion). We were all there once, I'm not insulting you by saying that. Just know what your talking about if your going to say something. You wanted me to point out what your doing wrong, so here.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Nanoblast owns, you really think beasts medium evasion is going to make them evade like mad and get screwed over every battle? I doubt it, i think nanoblasting on bosses and stuff is better than maybe geting interupted 1 time more than a cast would, also youd think something this flawed would get fixed since we are after all paying monthly fees

[Kaply]

erm, SUVs are very very similar to nanoblasts and in some cases even better than nanoblasts since they do damage in one shot. In addition both are basically used once per mission, unless your party sucks then you end up taking/doing enough damage to use them twice per mission. My playstyle gets me to use a LOT of PAs. If I wanted to at level 28 in a B rank dragon mission I can kill some of the mobs before the party gets to them if I complete one two string combo on them. I find that I sometimes hold back my damage in order to let other people get a chance to hit the mobs.

[ShinMatsumoto]

Shin's gonna be a human character.

Why?

Because Shin's human.

It doesn't really matter to me. I play to enjoy myself. That's all there is to it. If I have to learn how to work around things, I will. Big deal. I just want to enjoy myself.

So Shin will be a human Expert Hunter (Fortefighter, whatever, expert Hunter sounds better) and I'll go along with things how they are.

Besides, I'm sure I'll be able to figure SOMETHING out.

Thanks for the info though. I may just whore out my DFS and try to minimize EVP... who knows. But it's good to know as it is.

[RuinedReBirth]

On 2006-09-21 21:50, watashiwa wrote:


On 2006-09-21 21:40, Alisha wrote:
sounds like poor tactics.


Actually, sounds like you've never played the game!

Unlike PSO, and especially in missions higher than C rank, monsters don't ALWAYS flinch when you hit them. In PSO, you were guaranteed to flinch them as long as you registered 1 damage.

In PSU, you can hit them a few times and they won't flinch.

Since you've never played a game and probably didn't bother to watch the Shikon video I uploaded.. an example in that video is when I'm circling behind the big guy with the twin swords, I use my PA from behind him, and although I'm hitting him for 100+ multiple times, he can turn around during my PA and do a side swipe which will cause my character to block it and interrupt the PA.



Well, I'm not sure about that but monsters didn't always flitch in PSO. Ultimate mode to be specific. I may be wrong but I remember walking through Ult F1-2 power attacking a Bartle and they would sometimes smash me to my feet in the middle of my attacks.

So I imagine monsters don't flinch as much onlineas compared to offline. I've only played this easy world of offline. There were rare instances where my PA was cancelled due to an attack - sometimes it was annoying when I use PA with twin swords (after level 11)...my third string would rarely, if the monster didn't fly away, hit the monster. So in my opinion...it's better for that run.

EDIT: Typo ><



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RuinedReBirth on 2006-09-25 17:17 ]</font>

[DONTOSE]

thanks for helping me out Flamingo99
now i know what i was doing wrong. thanks again Flamingo99

[Zarbolord]

No bother, play what you want when you want, and how you want.
Why did you choose DOTNOSE as a name... *sorry I had the urge to say it...*

[DONTOSE]

i choose dontose as my name because the name dontose comes from the capcom game chaos legion

[Zarbolord]

I feel mean today, nothing to do with the origin, sorry for that. Being dislexic gives you things like that (I though gor one second that your name was DOT NOSE....)

[DONTOSE]

no im dontose its one word the thing is that its realy thanatos i changed it to make it shorter as dontose and so capcom cant say that i stole it from them

[Zarbolord]

Ok, no folly then. Hey people. This is my 1000th post! Yay! I'm a chatterbox member!

[DONTOSE]

thats funny i like your tales of symponia thing i realy never got to beat that game maybe i should start playing that game again.lol lol

[Zarbolord]

PM me if you need help, I've completed every quest.

1001 Arabian posts...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarbolord on 2006-09-26 10:13 ]</font>

[DONTOSE]

realy wow that game is long how long did it take you

[Eclypse]

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how getting ONLY the PA interupted will mean characters with high EVP are going to be in worse shape than characters with higher DFP! If it only occurs when you use a PA then so be it, I'm sure there are plenty of times you use PAs but there will also be times when you don't use your Photon Art combo.

[ImmortalTio]

Most of the time i'd rather just pummel that enemy mercilessly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

[Kaply]

On 2006-09-26 22:49, Eclypse wrote:
Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how getting ONLY the PA interupted will mean characters with high EVP are going to be in worse shape than characters with higher DFP! If it only occurs when you use a PA then so be it, I'm sure there are plenty of times you use PAs but there will also be times when you don't use your Photon Art combo.



Out of curiousity, what else are you expecting to get interrupted in as a Hunter?

Technically if you're running and you end up doing an evade this could cause more problems if some mob that can do a lot of damage is running at you while you were running away but some dinky weak hit stopped you because you ended up blocking instead. It's not like you block ONLY when you're doing a PA, you block at any time you would have gotten hit but your avoid kicked in and forced you to do a block animation.

[Zarbolord]

There is also the thing that high EVP will be more like Forces and rangers than hunters, right?

[fireant]

On 2006-09-27 06:26, ImmortalTio wrote:
Most of the time i'd rather just pummel that enemy mercilessly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif


I agree. Martyr style combat is the best. Anyway if the monster is hitting me the means he the monster is not hitting the rest of the team. Taking damage keeps the forces employed




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fireant on 2006-09-27 08:21 ]</font>

[Kaply]

On 2006-09-27 08:21, fireant wrote:


On 2006-09-27 06:26, ImmortalTio wrote:
Most of the time i'd rather just pummel that enemy mercilessly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif


I agree. Martyr style combat is the best. Anyway if the monster is hitting me the means he the monster is not hitting the rest of the team. Taking damage keeps the forces employed



Not quite true, I don't believe there's a target limit to enemy attacks. So if a force is standing where you're standing and you get hit, most likely both of you will get hit.

[fireant]

On 2006-09-27 08:24, Kaply wrote:


On 2006-09-27 08:21, fireant wrote:


On 2006-09-27 06:26, ImmortalTio wrote:
Most of the time i'd rather just pummel that enemy mercilessly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif


I agree. Martyr style combat is the best. Anyway if the monster is hitting me the means he the monster is not hitting the rest of the team. Taking damage keeps the forces employed




Not quite true, I don't believe there's a target limit to enemy attacks. So if a force is standing where you're standing and you get hit, most likely both of you will get hit.


do'h

[Nika]

For monster in PSU, they also have low damage and high damage too. when you do low damage to them,sometimes monster flinch,sometimes not. However, if you can do a very high damage to them, they not only flinch,they also fall down at the ground(even the very big 1,or the twin saber one)
I have do it in extra mode be4 (I use LV 78 FO and damage them about 1200~2000 damage by RaFoie)

[ImmortalTio]

the very first time i was knocked down was when i was hit by Da Rie La's multi-beam attack....talk about HURT ><
o

[Eclypse]

On 2006-09-27 07:30, Kaply wrote:


On 2006-09-26 22:49, Eclypse wrote:
Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how getting ONLY the PA interupted will mean characters with high EVP are going to be in worse shape than characters with higher DFP! If it only occurs when you use a PA then so be it, I'm sure there are plenty of times you use PAs but there will also be times when you don't use your Photon Art combo.



Out of curiousity, what else are you expecting to get interrupted in as a Hunter?

Technically if you're running and you end up doing an evade this could cause more problems if some mob that can do a lot of damage is running at you while you were running away but some dinky weak hit stopped you because you ended up blocking instead. It's not like you block ONLY when you're doing a PA, you block at any time you would have gotten hit but your avoid kicked in and forced you to do a block animation.



...but you did block animations all the same on PSO and that turned out fine. I can't see this being a problem at all for those that are used to it.

[Pinha]

Quick question... so if you get attacked and block, your character is forced to stop running and do a block animation? Is he pushed back or anything?

I can understand having a mechanic where you cannot block while moving, but are there any ways to avoid that, such as giving your back to mobs? Do they get a 100% hit rate on your back like we do on theirs?