60 fps/720p(high def widescreen) on PSU X360 Bring It !!!

[HyperShot-X-]

I was quite impressed by Watashiwa's video clips on PSU movie thread for the pc version running at 60 frams per sec, http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif and i'm so excited about how X360 will play in comparison.

Considering the pc version is running at consistant 60 fps with decent specs even under maxed out stress the game requires in 1280x1024 resolution, i have no doubt that ST can make PSU X360 do 60 fps ultra-smooth gameplay in 1280x720 high res with no trouble.

You can't really describe how much better 60 fps game play looks compared to 30 fps, there's just no comparison.

Add to this Xbox Live chat system with less crowded and secure online server, here we got a huge hit coming to the next gen console gaming in history.

This is gonna be truly the next gen upgraded sequel to PS series that we all been waiting for so long, now, just bring it, Sega !!!
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

[tomkat492]

Well said.

[A2K]

The difference really is quite dramatic at 60 FPS. I mean we all know the game itself being built around PS2 doesn't really push the latest graphics cards all that hard, but maintaining 60 FPS alone can almost make you forget about that.

[Kurushii]

<.<;; still no widescreen support on pc

[StanleyPain]

I dunno...if it runs at 60fps on the 360 (which I doubt from a technical standpoint) I think a lot of people are gonna get motion sickness. 60 looks pretty, but there's a lot of scientific crap about it warping the normal perception of movement than a human eye is used to and it simply is too fast. Please note, I'm not complaining...developers rarely get that kind of ambition on a console, it's just...I think it might be overkill for some people, and I know I sometimes get woozy in games with really high FPS and fast camera movements.

[watashiwa]

I think a lot of people are gonna get motion sickness. 60 looks pretty, but there's a lot of scientific crap about it warping the normal perception of movement than a human eye is used to and it simply is too fast.


Err, the human eye can easily see over 60 fps. Although it is unfortunate for the few people who get motion sickness playing video games with fast movement, you can get stuff to help with that... (And, most people who do get sick from video game movement, usually get sick from first person shooters than 3rd person perspective games..)

You doubting the XBox360's ability to pull off a simple 3D application running at 1280x720 with 60fps is sad, though! There are plenty of XBox360 games that already do this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif It shouldn't be a sweat for the console if the application is programmed correctly.

[Shade-]

yes, the human eye can see well over 60 fps depending on how fps is exactly being interpreted. But in a visual application like a video game, most people don't notice much improvement at all between 60 and 90 fps. It's prettu much agreed that for most games (non FPS at least), the sweet spot is somewhere between 30-60 fps(closer to 60 no doubt), and anything after that, for the most part, is just bragging rights.

[Jozon]

I play lots of fps's at 200-250 fps all the time, ohnoes, my eyes are ruined! XD

[Dingo]

Progressive and interlaced don't mean 30fps and 60fps.

[A2K]

On 2006-09-24 06:06, Dingo wrote:
Progressive and interlaced don't mean 30fps and 60fps.


I don't think anyone was implying that.

[HyperShot-X-]

On 2006-09-24 06:06, Dingo wrote:
Progressive and interlaced don't mean 30fps and 60fps.



indeed, resolution & fps got nothing to do with each other, resolution is more about the picture quality of progressive scan on HDtv that is much clear and sharper defined than interlaced on regular tv(CRT),
PS2 is known to not support true 480p eventho it can be displayed on HDtv/VGA monitor* with an adaptor, correct me if i'm wrong.

Moreover, a lot of ppl seem to have this misconception that 60 fps plays 2x faster than 30 fps, no, it's not about how fast game plays. The game pace do not change, but 60 fps just displays frames 2x more frequently resulting in much smoother n' realistic action compared to 30 fps while retaining the same game play speed.

For most ppl, consistant 60 fps display with no frame rate drop is much less strain on their eyes than 30 fps, even worse with frequent frame rate drops, like my eyes feel burning and tired getting headaches after playing for hrs in such condition.

*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-24 09:43 ]</font>

[Kurushii]

On 2006-09-24 07:24, HyperShot-X- wrote:
[quote]
PS2 is known to not support true 480p eventho it can be displayed on HDtv with an adaptor, correct me if i'm wrong.

I am tired of correcting this on this forum. PS2 can display 480p and 1080i(Gran Turismo 4) with only the need for the PS2 Component Cables(which everything that wants HDTV fucking needs unless you are doing HDMI/DVI).

[watashiwa]

PS2 definitely supports 480p, although not many games take advantage of it. If you have an HDTV and component cables, it usually requires you to hold Triangle+X during your game's bootup sequence to enable the Progressive Scan mode.

[HyperShot-X-]

*edited my earlier post,
what i tried to mean by 'true 480p' ...

"...Playstation 2 Most games can only support 480i mode."
http://www.x2vga.com/

Has it been confirmed that PSU on PS2 supports 480p?

Even if it does, what really matters is that still can't change 4:3 display ratio with black bars on each side on 16:9 widescreen HDtv which isn't taking full advantage of it, might as well just play 480i on old CRT tube with s-vdeo connection, and for those who want 480p on VGA monitor have to get that expensive adaptor costing more than the game itself.

hence, the point* 480p(progressive) don't mean 60fps(got nothing to do with it) and is not 720p widescreen mode(you only wish it was).

[phunk]

We get 1080p soon, ye?

[watashiwa]

PSU doesn't support 480p, only 480i.

[HyperShot-X-]

...which would mean hooking up ps2 to HDtv with component cable would not display true 480p afterall for PSU at least, if it does display at all in the 1st place.
The same applies to VGA converter/box to display on pc monitor if there is such a thing, and don't be fooled by those 'fake' VGA adaptors either, basically if the game only supports 480i then it's not true 480p.

Another common misconception would be PSU on PS3 as backward compatible(BC) will somehow upscale to 720p and make it run 60 fps. This is not possible in Sony's case due to all BC games on ps3 will run on ps2 cpu chip set placed inside PS3 and will not take advantage of the new PS3 'Emotion engine' at all in contrast to Microsoft's approach to BC on Xbox 360 as software emulation to actually upscale most of orginal 480p games to 720p HD widescreen mode.

Basically, playing PSU on $600 console bundled with the useless Blue ray technology will not make the game look and feel much better than on $120(give o take) console with soon to be 6 yrs old technology as far as concerning the resolution and fps. One must be dreaming if he/she thinks PSU on PS3 will somehow magically come even close to PSU X360 in every aspects whatsoever.

1080p on HD dvd by next yr is still ahead of it's time for me since 720p looks amazing as is. Blue ray is really no competition without those Sony fans who don't care about technological advantages and blindly supports the francise and brand name.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-24 18:05 ]</font>

[ShinMaruku]

Don't boast about resoulution when the PC has it in 1080P... XD

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-09-24 17:58, HyperShot-X- wrote:
...which would mean hooking up ps2 to HDtv with component cable would not display true 480p afterall for PSU at least, if it does display at all in the 1st place.
The same applies to VGA converter/box to display on pc monitor if there is such a thing, and don't be fooled by those 'fake' VGA adaptors either, basically if the game only supports 480i then it's not true 480p.

Another common misconception would be PSU on PS3 as backward compatible(BC) will somehow upscale to 720p and make it run 60 fps. This is not possible in Sony's case due to all BC games on ps3 will run on ps2 cpu chip set placed inside PS3 and will not take advantage of the new PS3 'Emotion engine' at all in contrast to Microsoft's approach to BC on Xbox 360 as software emulation to actually upscale most of orginal 480p games to 720p HD widescreen mode.

Basically, playing PSU on $600 console bundled with the useless Blue ray technology will not make the game look and feel much better than on $120(give o take) console with soon to be 6 yrs old technology as far as concerning the resolution and fps. One must be dreaming if he/she thinks PSU on PS3 will somehow magically come even close to PSU X360 in every aspects whatsoever.

1080p on HD dvd by next yr is still ahead of it's time for me since 720p looks amazing as is. Blue ray is really no competition without those Sony fans who don't care about technological advantages and blindly supports the francise and brand name.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-24 18:05 ]</font>


Point, Han.

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-24 17:58, HyperShot-X- wrote:
Basically, playing PSU on $600 console bundled with the useless Blue ray technology will not make the game look and feel much better than on $120(give o take) console with soon to be 6 yrs old technology as far as concerning the resolution and fps. One must be dreaming if he/she thinks PSU on PS3 will somehow magically come even close to PSU X360 in every aspects whatsoever.

This isn't entirely true. Although the PS2 natively renders the game at 480i, it doesn't mean the PS3 would have to.

Sure, I don't think the PS3 would output PSU in 720p or 1080p, but it could probably do 480p NO PROBLEM.

Just because a game's code isn't flagged to render a game with double the amount of lines, doesn't mean that emulation on the future console can't be changed to do otherwise.

Take for example running PS1 games on the PS2. You have an option of increasing the texture resolution in the PS1 emulation settings.

Another example is running old XBox games on the 360. Halo 2 and other games never supported 720p, yet when you run them on the XBox360, they DO. AND they benefit from being rendered in 720p with slightly cleaner graphics and sharper resolution on the textures.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-24 18:40 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-09-24 18:37, watashiwa wrote:


On 2006-09-24 17:58, HyperShot-X- wrote:
Basically, playing PSU on $600 console bundled with the useless Blue ray technology will not make the game look and feel much better than on $120(give o take) console with soon to be 6 yrs old technology as far as concerning the resolution and fps. One must be dreaming if he/she thinks PSU on PS3 will somehow magically come even close to PSU X360 in every aspects whatsoever.

This isn't entirely true. Although the PS2 natively renders the game at 480i, it doesn't mean the PS3 would have to.

Sure, I don't think the PS3 would output PSU in 720p or 1080p, but it could probably do 480p NO PROBLEM.

Just because a game's code isn't flagged to render a game with double the amount of lines, doesn't mean that emulation on the future console can't be changed to do otherwise.

Take for example running PS1 games on the PS2. You have an option of increasing the texture resolution in the PS1 emulation settings.

Another example is running old XBox games on the 360. Halo 2 and other games never supported 720p, yet when you run them on the XBox360, they DO. AND they benefit from being rendered in 720p with slightly cleaner graphics and sharper resolution on the textures.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-24 18:40 ]</font>


Sony's emulation is Hardware based. Microsoft's is software emulation. The Dashboard recieves updates that add to the BC list.

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-24 18:50, Zeta wrote:
Sony's emulation is Hardware based. Microsoft's is software emulation. The Dashboard recieves updates that add to the BC list.



I don't really know much about the PS3's emulation, whether it's hardware OR software based, as I haven't read up on it much..

HOWEVER, even if the PS2's emulation of the PS3 is hardware based, that still doesn't mean that it can't support AT least 480p for every game.

Just because the PS2 paints half a field a second instead of a full frame a second, doesn't mean that the PS3 won't be able to.

The PS1 emulation in the PS2 had some options for increasing the resolution somewhat, although they didn't work too well, even though it was hardware based emulation.. The PS2 emulation part of the PS3 could do the same thing.

I'm just saying, I doubt that 480p on every game that the PS3 emulators is not impossible. It's actually every possible and probably pretty easy.

[A2K]

Apparently the hardware solution for PS3's backwards compatibility is temporary while they attempt to perfect a software solution. Once the software solution, they allegedly intend to remove the PS2 chips from the unit to save on production costs.

[Deathcraze]

On 2006-09-24 17:58, HyperShot-X- wrote:
Another common misconception would be PSU on PS3 as backward compatible(BC) will somehow upscale to 720p and make it run 60 fps.

Upscaling to 720p is easy. Making games miraculously run at 60fps when they are designed at 30fps is not going to happen.

The only 2 console games that I know will run at a higher framerate without running twice as fast under emulation are Goldeneye and Perfect Dark on the N64, for reasons known only to Rare they were designed like this.


This is not possible in Sony's case due to all BC games on ps3 will run on ps2 cpu chip set placed inside PS3 and will not take advantage of the new PS3 'Emotion engine' at all in contrast to Microsoft's approach to BC on Xbox 360 as software emulation to actually upscale most of orginal 480p games to 720p HD widescreen mode.

I believe that Sony said at one point in time that they were having troubles with emulating the PS2 on the PS3 so they will include PS2 hardware inside the PS3 just like they did with the PS2/PS1.

However they also said that eventually when it is up to scratch they would switch over to emulation for cost reasons, but when and if they ever get round to that is another story.

It is worth mentioning that with the Xbox 360, they render Xbox titles at 480p with 4xAA and 8xAF (if I remember correctly), then using the 360s internal scaler take that 480p source and scale the image to 720p.

This is why Xbox titles look less sharp compared to 360 games as they are not being natively rendered at 720p and being scaled instead to that resolution. It looks pretty good considering.


Basically, playing PSU on $600 console bundled with the useless Blue ray technology will not make the game look and feel much better than on $120(give o take) console with soon to be 6 yrs old technology as far as concerning the resolution and fps. One must be dreaming if he/she thinks PSU on PS3 will somehow magically come even close to PSU X360 in every aspects whatsoever.

Many people might not know this but many PS2 games render at 480p just like 99% of Xbox titles, but for whatever reason don't allow you to output at 480p. This is to combat the terrible jaggies early games had such as Ridge Racer 5 as they rendered by field I believe. I have no idea why developers don't then allow those games to output at 480p since the hardwork is already done since it renders at that resolution.

There is a solution by some company that allows you to output to a VGA monitor at 480p providing it does use the full framebuffer. And no, I am not talking about line doublers before someone brings that up, you have to put a disc inside the PS2 much like a Gameshark/Action Replay that unlocks it by whatever means and then use a special cable provided. I know that MGS2 works with this for example.

The PS3 then scaling up the internal image to 720p would work much like the Xbox 360 in that respect though obviously it won't be in widescreen as PSU doesn't support it or will it look anywhere near as good as the 360 version will.

As mentioned by watashiwa, the PS2 did include bilinear filtering for PS1 titles as a option so game could look slightly better running on a PS3 than on a PS2 but not by a whole lot probably. Depends how much effort Sony are going to put into their BC.


1080p on HD dvd by next yr is still ahead of it's time for me since 720p looks amazing as is. Blue ray is really no competition without those Sony fans who don't care about technological advantages and blindly supports the francise and brand name.

Well on paper Blu-ray is a much better tech thats for sure and is far better supported by movie studios. HDDVD holds less content, has only one major movie studio exclusive to it and only Toshiba are making a effort to make hardware since they are currenlty selling hardware at a loss just to get it into peoples homes.

It is also worth mentioning that while Sony is by far the most prominent Blu-ray group memeber, it is not supported or developed by them alone.

Anyways I have no interest in HD movies at the minute, much less a HD format war as well. The 2 formats are very similar appart from how much content they can hold.

First post in god knows how many years, and it had to be so big 0_o

Anyways on topic, PSU should run easily at 60fps on Xbox 360. If it is 30fps it is just Sonic Team being Lazy and unwilling to spend time on optimising the game.

[Blitzkommando]

I should mention before it is forgotten, the truth behind the whole '60 FPS causes motion sickness'.

Firstly, on analog tube monitors that is completely true. I have the problem myself. It has to do with the scan rate being fast enough to render faster than the eye can see, but not fast enough to go unnoticed. Generally, the way that was fixed was by lowering the framerate to 30 Hz maximum or increasing the scan rate up to 75 Hz. In truth, it's not the FRAMERATE that causes the sickness it's the SCAN RATE. It's a technicality, yes, but a very important one nonetheless. This is easily proven on CRT (tube) monitors for computers by setting the refresh rate (vertical scan rate) to 70 or 75 Hz then playing a game limited to 60 FPS. You won't get the motionsickness even though technically the game is running at 60 Hz output because the videocard along with the monitor compensate for the difference.

Digital monitors without tubes (LCD, plasma, projection, etc.) don't produce the motionsickness because of the nature at which they display images. With tube montiors an effect of flickering occurs at all refresh rates, meaning that the majority of the screen is waiting for data to be displayed at all times. This is compensated by running at a much higher refresh rate, such as 75, 85, or higher Hertz. This flicker is the basic cause of the sickness. Because digital monitors always display inforation this cannot happen. They simply 'wait' until new information is instructed to be displayed. In that way LCD monitors solved the issues that tube monitors (often called CRT for Cathoid Ray Tube) had been producing since they were created.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in many situations the human eye accepts 'low' frame rates as completely fluid, such as movies at 24 FPS. Most movies run at 24 FPS, and some run at 29.97 FPS (On PAL televisions movies are run at 24.96 to compensate for the change in refresh rate from 60 Hz to 50 Hz). Games have far more movement at once and require a more stable frame rate to remain fluid. However, cartoons are the opposite and usually run at 2x12 FPS. (As in they repeat a frame before going to the next sometimes repeating three or four times even)

For a more technical view:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_scan_rate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision

[HyperShot-X-]

To make the long story short, whether or not Sony can manage to software emulate PSU on PS3 as BC to pull off 480p or even 720p, by the time they get around to that ST could have recoded the whole game from scratch on PS3 hardware to make it at the same level as PSU X360 which i doubt they ever will anyways, and even if they can pull off 720p upscaling by copying MS's software emulation for BC, it still won't look as good as natively rendered 720p on X360 not to mention it's impossible to modify 30 fps set at the max on ps2.

So, any attempts to favor PSU PS2 version over X360 version putting them in the same league on the technological stand point is totally futile. It's been said that Sony copied MS's Xbox Live system for PS3 and it seems they will copy software emulation for BC as well, that makes them non-innovative lazy copycat and ppl are supporting them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif


Well on paper Blu-ray is a much better tech thats for sure and is far better supported by movie studios. HDDVD holds less content, has only one major movie studio exclusive to it...

I'm not interested in HD movies just yet either, but i hear quite contrary regarding HD format comparison from critics and experts where HD DVD is 6 month ahead of Blue Ray technology and uses more advanced compression technics focused more on the quality of content over quantity of disk capacity.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_blurayvshddvd_firstcomparison.html

I read somewhere also that dual layer will be possible in future on HD DVD format to hold twice as much content where blue ray can only be one sided and can easily be damaged.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-24 22:48 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-24 22:53 ]</font>

[DiscReadError]

damn straight

[kazuma56]

I heard Blu-ray can and supposedly will sport Dual-layering hence the large space comment people make about it (100gigs storage dual layered I believe).

Also, isn't there a difference between using a technique and not using it? i'm pretty sure those "advanced" techniques used in HD-DVD can also be done on bluray but with the space it has, compression isn't needed and therefore isn't done.

[Xx3of19xX]

Kazuma, Blu-ray's layers are 25gigs. They've had trouble massproducing dual layer discs for some time, the first movies on dual layer Blu-ray are supposedly coming this fall.

HD DVD has 15 gig a layer and they haven't had the problems Blu-ray had so they've had dual layer from the start.

[A2K]

I always thought that this article (http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10reasonsHDDVDsfailed.php) was an interesting read on the matter of the new HD disc formats.

[Deathcraze]

On 2006-09-24 22:40, HyperShot-X- wrote:
I'm not interested in HD movies just yet either, but i hear quite contrary regarding HD format comparison from critics and experts where HD DVD is 6 month ahead of Blue Ray technology and uses more advanced compression technics focused more on the quality of content over quantity of disk capacity.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_blurayvshddvd_firstcomparison.html

I read somewhere also that dual layer will be possible in future on HD DVD format to hold twice as much content where blue ray can only be one sided and can easily be damaged.

The funny thing is that both HDDVD and Blu-ray support the same video codecs, its just that some studios aren't using the advanced codecs because of cost reasons.

I know Sony, through sheer stupidity if you ask me, are still using MPEG2 which is used on DVDs as they don't want to pay a fee to Microsoft to use VC1 (which many HDDVD releases are using) or pay a fee to whoever to use MPEG-4 AVC.

MPEG2 on a 25GB disc when you consider how much space audio is taking up now and over all how much it used on DVDs, is simply not enough. It is a ancient codec by todays standards and they are letting Bluray down at the moment because of this. This is why many Blu-ray movies look worse than HDDVD movies currently.

This is why for Sony getting those 50GB discs ready is so very important since they desperately need more space for their old codec. Once these discs are available, and if studios use either of the newer codecs on these discs then they will be able to be of a better quality than HDDVD since Blu-ray also has a higher read rate which means better quality movies are possible.

It is worth mentioning that HDDVD releases are using dual layers right now and have done since launch. This is currently giving HDDVD a 5GB advantage but this will be eclipsed by Blu-rays 50GB disc. I even hear that Toshiba is trying to get a 3 layered 45GB disc out to combat this.

As for easily damages part, that is sort of true as smaller pits on the same physical disc size will do that just like how DVD is more fragile than CDs technically. However there are ways around this and better protection has been developed.

God forbid that they ever use 2 sides of the disc on Blu-ray, I hate have to flip over discs, and so did people 10 years ago when DVD were released to combat the unavailablity and cost of dual layers. So much more likely to get dirty or get scratched.

HDDVD has a combo disc where you can put a DVD readable movie on one side and the HDDVD movie on the other, but last time I checked it was possible for Blu-ray to do this all on one side but I haven't seen anything about that for a while so I have no idea if it has changed.

And, errr... go 60fps PSU!? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[qoxolg]

yep, MPEG2 is ancient... just try to rip your favorite DVD with 1500kbit bitrate with a h.264 codec..

h.264 can easely get a 1080p movie on a HD-DVD disc..
hell, here in the netherlands we don't even have 1080p TV's yet.. :/ and only very few people have a 720p HDTV at the moment..

and.. uhh.. YEAH! GIB PSU @ 60fps LOL!1!!!

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-23 19:59, HyperShot-X- wrote:
I was quite impressed by Watashiwa's video clips on PSU movie thread for the pc version running at 60 frams per sec, http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif and i'm so excited about how X360 will play in comparison.

Considering the pc version is running at consistant 60 fps with decent specs even under maxed out stress the game requires in 1280x1024 resolution, i have no doubt that ST can make PSU X360 do 60 fps ultra-smooth gameplay in 1280x720 high res with no trouble.

You can't really describe how much better 60 fps game play looks compared to 30 fps, there's just no comparison.

Add to this Xbox Live chat system with less crowded and secure online server, here we got a huge hit coming to the next gen console gaming in history.

This is gonna be truly the next gen upgraded sequel to PS series that we all been waiting for so long, now, just bring it, Sega !!!
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif



It will be nice, but with the addition of video chat, it seems like the voice chat feature has become a little buggy. It kicks me out every now and then from Live completely a few minutes into voice chat and crashes my games occasionally since getting the video camera. Also, in games like bfmc, bouncing from private chat to the game chat was very buggy, often no one could hear you and you could not hear them when they went from active private chat to game chat while in-game. Also, the only thing I miss about halo 2 on the xbox was that it had the ability to let up to 16 people talk at once. This one on one private chat should have been expanded long ago, but it seems like now they even messing up voice chat further imo. It will be interesting to see how sonic team and microsoft handle voice chat in PSU.

[Tystys]

On 2006-09-23 22:07, watashiwa wrote:


I think a lot of people are gonna get motion sickness. 60 looks pretty, but there's a lot of scientific crap about it warping the normal perception of movement than a human eye is used to and it simply is too fast.


Err, the human eye can easily see over 60 fps. Although it is unfortunate for the few people who get motion sickness playing video games with fast movement, you can get stuff to help with that... (And, most people who do get sick from video game movement, usually get sick from first person shooters than 3rd person perspective games..)

You doubting the XBox360's ability to pull off a simple 3D application running at 1280x720 with 60fps is sad, though! There are plenty of XBox360 games that already do this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif It shouldn't be a sweat for the console if the application is programmed correctly.



Case is point, games like Dead Rising and Lost Planet.

[Shrevn]

I dont understand this topic is he trying to say 360 will look better then PC because thats obsurd Anyways you hear it.

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-25 14:07, Shrevn wrote:
I dont understand this topic is he trying to say 360 will look better then PC because thats obsurd Anyways you hear it.



Well, technically to program a game for a PC, you need to make the game at least runnable on the minimum spec requirements. For instance, PS2 sort of prerequisites. Therefore, a PC game can never be more advanced than the minimum specs will allow, theoretically, unless they have sliders to turn bumpmapping and all that good stuff off. And since the 360 is a console for which all other 360 consoles are based the same, the devs can up the specs of the game to perform at the maximum capabilities of the console, or as close as they can get, without worrying about the one kid with a Pentium II. This allows the programmers a freedom to program without having to worry about minimum specs or special video cards and display drivers and whatnot that may crash the game. This is probably another big reason why the servers will be seperate. It's a lot harder to program for PC. Haven't you guys ever read the developer notes and forums for Bethesda Softworks' Elder Scrolls Oblivion? So really, it's like this. Your PC sucks, the game looks like PS2 quality. Your PC is alienware or better, it will quite possibly look better than the 360, but you won't be playing on a 60 inch HDTV, now will ya?

[Jinto117]

On 2006-09-25 14:43, Valkayree wrote:


On 2006-09-25 14:07, Shrevn wrote:
I dont understand this topic is he trying to say 360 will look better then PC because thats obsurd Anyways you hear it.



Well, technically to program a game for a PC, you need to make the game at least runnable on the minimum spec requirements. For instance, PS2 sort of prerequisites. Therefore, a PC game can never be more advanced than the minimum specs will allow, theoretically, unless they have sliders to turn bumpmapping and all that good stuff off. And since the 360 is a console for which all other 360 consoles are based the same, the devs can up the specs of the game to perform at the maximum capabilities of the console, or as close as they can get, without worrying about the one kid with a Pentium II. This allows the programmers a freedom to program without having to worry about minimum specs or special video cards and display drivers and whatnot that may crash the game. This is probably another big reason why the servers will be seperate. It's a lot harder to program for PC. Haven't you guys ever read the developer notes and forums for Bethesda Softworks' Elder Scrolls Oblivion? So really, it's like this. Your PC sucks, the game looks like PS2 quality. Your PC is alienware or better, it will quite possibly look better than the 360, but you won't be playing on a 60 inch HDTV, now will ya?



I see what you mean. Although my computer will be more then able to handle PSU at 60fps, I'd still rather play on the couche via XboxLive assuming it supports 60fps. Otherwise if it doesn't I'll stick with the PC version.

[HyperShot-X-]

yes, Valkayree's post sums it all up rather nicely there, it's more like matter of one's preference in choosing which version to play PSU given that X360 will run at 60fps the same as on high end pc.

If i had the choice, i'd rather play it on 720p 16:9 widescreen on HDtv than the same old 4:3 on pc monitor eventho higher resolution would be possible on such super gaming pc costing well over thousand bucks.

And if i were one of those who must upgrade their pc to run PSU spending couple hundreds, i'd rather spend that money on affording a new X360 just for PSU.

All they gotta do is get the demo released on X-Live weeks before the game release on X360 and ppl will try it out to help make their decisions.

So,.. Yeah, Bring Da 60fps PSU, Come on !!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Serephim]

PS3 is the most retarded system ive ever heard of.

Who the hell pays $600 for a damn game system? Sony's marketing, cheating, lying, and asinie remarks towards the success of their system has already set them so far back into the console race it isnt even funny.

I hope the PS3 ends up like the Dreamcast. Great graphics, phailed system. (except when thrid party developers find out no one is buying their $70 games on the $600 system, their most likely going to do what they did to the GCN and stop developing..)

The playstation 3 is more like an experement of how much useless shit you can cram into a 400 degree Celsus box and charge money for. Sony swares they havent jipped nintendo off when just a few months before E3 their controller looked like a gay ass boomberang, they sware they diddnt jipp Xbox Live off (which they almost got sued for, lmao..), they sware that they were the first to do a full game with 3D rendering (HELLO STARFOX SNES).. and now that they reailze people would rather want a 360+wii than a ps3, they decide to flip the swich and say "OMG no lol this is a computer d00ds its bttr than mikrosft/Wee SPEND MUNEY ON ME PLOX" and declare it something its not.

Blu-Ray (what the hell happened to normal DVDs? Who needs more resolution than that?!)
Linux (............Why...)
7 players at a time (Who the hell is gonna play a game with 7 tiny boxes on the screen? 7 players is good for almost nothing except madden.)
Gyroscope Controllers ( DEFINALTEY "Their idea first", i could have sworn they called nintendo stupid for it.)
2 processors (Okay, my room is hot enough with tracklights and a TV, i dont need all that extra heat..)


Im keeping my Ps2 and making sure i never buy another sony product again. (ill stick to Ipod.)

[Serephim]

the resolution hardely changes anything.

If anything, the only reason i wouldnt get this game on Ps2 is the slowdown. (and the fact that sony builds ps2's with a 2 year guarntee before they explode)

[ShinMaruku]

On 2006-09-26 05:03, Serephim wrote:
PS3 is the most retarded system ive ever heard of.

Who the hell pays $600 for a damn game system? Sony's marketing, cheating, lying, and asinie remarks towards the success of their system has already set them so far back into the console race it isnt even funny.

I hope the PS3 ends up like the Dreamcast. Great graphics, phailed system. (except when thrid party developers find out no one is buying their $70 games on the $600 system, their most likely going to do what they did to the GCN and stop developing..)

The playstation 3 is more like an experement of how much useless shit you can cram into a 400 degree Celsus box and charge money for. Sony swares they havent jipped nintendo off when just a few months before E3 their controller looked like a gay ass boomberang, they sware they diddnt jipp Xbox Live off (which they almost got sued for, lmao..), they sware that they were the first to do a full game with 3D rendering (HELLO STARFOX SNES).. and now that they reailze people would rather want a 360+wii than a ps3, they decide to flip the swich and say "OMG no lol this is a computer d00ds its bttr than mikrosft/Wee SPEND MUNEY ON ME PLOX" and declare it something its not.

Blu-Ray (what the hell happened to normal DVDs? Who needs more resolution than that?!)
Linux (............Why...)
7 players at a time (Who the hell is gonna play a game with 7 tiny boxes on the screen? 7 players is good for almost nothing except madden.)
Gyroscope Controllers ( DEFINALTEY "Their idea first", i could have sworn they called nintendo stupid for it.)
2 processors (Okay, my room is hot enough with tracklights and a TV, i dont need all that extra heat..)


Im keeping my Ps2 and making sure i never buy another sony product again. (ill stick to Ipod.)





I love how people attack the thign on it's price when it's $500 (Or a little over $400 in Japan)
And if ya want to bithc bout the $600 price tafg bitch at those who spend ovver $600 on graphics cards . Don't wanna hear about ab $200 one cna do PSU becuase PSU is a bullshit specs game that neither the PC or 360 people should boast about graphics.(PC has some legitamte functions though)

[qoxolg]

The PS3 is not even a better system.. remember the videocard of the PS3 is a bit weaker and lacking ED-ram which means no Anti aliasing without FPS loss..

And everyone that thinks their PC is stronger than a 360.. think again smart boy.. only the fastest core2duo can pwn a triple core PowerPC @ 3,2GHZ and to match the videocard you'll need a SLI or crossfire setup..

Till now I haven't seen a PC game that is already out that looks as great as Kameo or Lost Planet..

[ShinMaruku]

You never seen Crysis have you..
And what the hell you talking about no AA with out FPS loss that's more 360 territory at this moment. You haters are all too funny.
Sure the 360 cna pull out them nice looks but it done't sem to have the effects being flung around.
I mean I have yet to see at 60fp[s racing game form the 360 (Ridge Racer is offically th smoothest one ever 1080P at 60FPS!)

[Deathcraze]

On 2006-09-26 07:54, qoxolg wrote:
The PS3 is not even a better system.. remember the videocard of the PS3 is a bit weaker and lacking ED-ram which means no Anti aliasing without FPS loss..

Erm... no. The point of the EDRAM is to give almost computationaly free AA, FPS loss doesn't come into this unless you have designed your game badly enough that it can't keep a good framerate.

Anyways with 720p with AA on the 360 won't actually fit into the 10MB EDRAM, they have to use a technique called tiling to make it work which takes away the almost free advantage anyways. Unreal 3 engine at the moment doesn't support tiling which is why every game using it at the moment has a bit of jaggies.


And everyone that thinks their PC is stronger than a 360.. think again smart boy.. only the fastest core2duo can pwn a triple core PowerPC @ 3,2GHZ and to match the videocard you'll need a SLI or crossfire setup..

Till now I haven't seen a PC game that is already out that looks as great as Kameo or Lost Planet..

Comparing PCs to consoles is a pretty futile thing anyways as they do things very different and do some things better and some things worse.

Anyways consoles are usually a bit more powerful than PCs for a year or so only to then be eclipsed. Pcs also have to cater for people with different configurations, it is often better to shoot for the middle ground than aim for a select few with the newest PCs around.


I mean I have yet to see at 60fp[s racing game form the 360 (Ridge Racer is offically th smoothest one ever 1080P at 60FPS!)

Ridge Racer 6 was 60fps, Burnout as well probably.

[Jinto117]

From what I heared Crysis will only be coming to the PC because not even the PS3 is enough to handle it. Bioshock, although coming out for the 360 and I think PS3 as well, can only be pushed to its max on the PC. I'd gladly spend $600 or more on a new DirectX 10 graphics card then the PS3.

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-26 05:03, Serephim wrote:
PS3 is the most retarded system ive ever heard of.

Who the hell pays $600 for a damn game system? Sony's marketing, cheating, lying, and asinie remarks towards the success of their system has already set them so far back into the console race it isnt even funny.



Most of you guys were still in the womb around this time, but a while back when CDs first came out two companies released two CD based gaming systems, the 3DO and the CD-i. Both retailed at around $300-$400. This was astounding at the time because Nintendo had the market on lock down and sold its consoles for WAAAAAY cheaper. This was before the original playstation. Now of course these two $300+ systems didn't come off of the success of two previous gaming consoles, so they vanished into nonexisistance thanks to the crappy 7th Guest-like motion video (gimmicky live action stuff) and high cost of the system. Hopefully Sony read up on its gaming history. If Sony and the Playstation die this go around, it will be because of Blue Ray cratering and the console being too expensive. If it survives, it is only because of some of these good looking exclusive titles they are advertising combined with its legions of preexisting fanboys who have probably already got their $600 saved up. Sony's third party support is legendary, and they take care of their rpg fans. I'm pretty sure that blue ray will not be an industry standard though, especially if sony has to go cheap on its codec to play dvds in HD quality because they don't want to pay microsoft for the rights to use their codec... I think Microsoft may win out in the long run, but barely. It may end up like nintendo and Sega, who knows, at one time during gaming history Atari was unstoppable. But due to some bad decisions (not giving developers credit for thier games, to name one) many of their best devs broke off into third party companies (Activision) and weakened the company. Atari later ended up making crap like ET on the 2600 (bleh) and people stopped respecting their games. Not to mention their CEO stepped down before all this. Atari made good games when the entire staff was on drugs, lol. A few years later, the industry picked up in Japan with the Famicom, but almost died in NA until Nintendo exported the clunky gray box we all know and love, and Sega jumped in to provide the competition, and good competition at that. I still wish they would re-make Mutant League Football, lol.

[qoxolg]

You never seen Crysis have you..

just learn to read.. I said no game out YET! Of course I've seen crysis and it looks incredible..but crysis without DirectX10 would not look anywhere as good as you see in the trailers @ the moment.. and DX10 is not out @ this moment.. so there...


Sure the 360 cna pull out them nice looks but it done't sem to have the effects being flung around.

If I understand what you wrote you mean the 360 can pull off nice looks but it can't do those "great" effects..

if you think that, you probably don't own a 360? I've played several games on it.. sure there are some crappy looking games.. mainly ported games or games that are developed for other systems as well (prey, oblivon, EA games, PSU, etc etc..) Games like Kameo, Lost Planet and some other games are coming are trully showing what the 360 is made off. And the PS3 won't be any better with effects than the 360, both GPU's are based on Shader Model 3.0 which means, same effects, same potential..


Erm... no. The point of the EDRAM is to give almost computationaly free AA, FPS loss doesn't come into this unless you have designed your game badly enough that it can't keep a good framerate.

Anyways with 720p with AA on the 360 won't actually fit into the 10MB EDRAM, they have to use a technique called tiling to make it work which takes away the almost free advantage anyways. Unreal 3 engine at the moment doesn't support tiling which is why every game using it at the moment has a bit of jaggies.


Sorry, my mistake here, I just searched for some information about EDRAM and you are right about that. EDRAM on the PS3 would be useless if every game would support 1080p, cause iytwould need more than 20MB of EDRAM to be usefull. As far as I know there are no 360 games using the UR3.0 engine @ moment, we will see how it will work out with Gears of War.

And PC's were most of the time faster than consoles, even when the console got released.. the Dreamcast, PS2, GC and XBOX were already weaker than a PC when they released. Consoles are just having an advantage of more specific hardware, you can see how well that works out when a console game is exclusive for a system.

Just don't get me wrong, I was more getting annoyed of kids screaming around that their PC can pull off better graphics than a 360.

I also got no problems with the PS3. It's a fine console and it is worth its price, but people are already hyping the graphics of the PS3 eventhough the console is not even released yet, and I still have to see realtime demo's that really have to amaze me.

ontopic: with 720p it won't look much better then on 480p, cause the textures of PSU are very low-res anyway

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-26 13:16, qoxolg wrote:

if you think that, you probably don't own a 360? I've played several games on it.. sure there are some crappy looking games.. mainly ported games or games that are developed for other systems as well (prey, oblivon, EA games, PSU, etc etc..)



Take Oblivion off that list please. It doesn't deserve to be there.



On 2006-09-26 13:16, qoxolg wrote:

I also got no problems with the PS3. It's a fine console and it is worth its price, but people are already hyping the graphics of the PS3 eventhough the console is not even released yet, and I still have to see realtime demo's that really have to amaze me.



They lied about that Killzone trailer being real-time, so I assume they lie to me about everything else.

[ShinMaruku]

I in no way said the 360 looks like crap but rather that while it looks nice it won't have them insane tricks like Motorstorm has (That thing is full of trickery)


Ridge Racer 6 was 60fps
Don't talk bullshit, it was 30FPS! If it where 60 why would people orgamsm over the 1080p 60fps sequel?

As for some people who ain't wowed rembeer that it's first gneration games(Which is funny look at the 360s)
and quite few wowed me, mainly motrostorm,LAIR and Hevanly Sword (Which is by the way, the only game at E32k5 that was real time and was surpassed by the 2k6 E3)

[qoxolg]

it won't have them insane tricks like Motorstorm has (That thing is full of trickery)

I've watched some trailers of the game, and I still don't understand what you mean by insane tricks the 360 is not capable off.. please explain..

as for the "great" heavenly sword.. I mean comon.. that is not amazing me.. it's just some fun fighting with way to much light blooms and HDR lighting everywhere.. not something that looks great to me, I am not saying its ugly..

and LAIR.. well.. watched a trailer of the actual gameplay, and again light blooms and HDR all over the place.. which is not something new to me at all.. also the amount of enemies is nothing new, the 360 already did that with kameo, N3 and dead rising..

And to clear some things up for you.. the 360 and PS3 are both using the same generation GPU that is capable of the same things. They will soon be blown away by the DX10 cards anyway http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And that the 360 does not have a cell processor doesn't mean it got a weak CPU.

[Deathcraze]

Ridge Racer 6 was 60fps
Don't talk bullshit, it was 30FPS! If it where 60 why would people orgamsm over the 1080p 60fps sequel?

I dunno, you would have to ask them. Probably just people with a agenda because I have played Ridge Racer 6 and it is very much 60fps at 720p. I don't think many would accept a Ridge Racer these days if it wasn't 60fps.

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/668/668320p2.html

At least RR6 runs smoothly at 60 frames per second, but that's expected these days.

Forza Motorsport 2 will also be 60fps for the record.


Sorry, my mistake here, I just searched for some information about EDRAM and you are right about that. EDRAM on the PS3 would be useless if every game would support 1080p, cause iytwould need more than 20MB of EDRAM to be usefull. As far as I know there are no 360 games using the UR3.0 engine @ moment, we will see how it will work out with Gears of War.

No problem, I guess the PS3 uses the main RAM for this purpose at the expense of bandwidth (which is the main reason for EDRAM i think) while I am not sure if the 360 can only use the EDRAM for this purpose. Guess we will have to see on that.

You are right on UE3, things can change and individual developers may modify it to allow tiling in the future if Epic doesn't do it themselves. Lost Odyssey and I think Mass Effect uses UR3 but I can't remember any others at the moment.

[Typhoeus]

So, is PSU for 360 going to have the ability support any kind of progressive/widescreen? Or do we not know at this time?

[StanleyPain]

Isn't it required that every game released on the 360 must AT MINIMUM support 480p widescreen?

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-26 17:30, StanleyPain wrote:
Isn't it required that every game released on the 360 must AT MINIMUM support 480p widescreen?



No, the minimum support for an XBox360 game is 720P at widescreen. (They have to at least code it to work in 480P as well, but 720P is the minimum requirement.)

[StanleyPain]

Oh, and I think it should be mentioned that system specs are virtually meaningless in the long run. It all depends on what is done with the CPU and who is developing for it. It's that simple. You can have a Cray inside your console, and it won't matter if the games suck or are sloppily programmed. If you're a huge graphics whore, you MIGHT be satisfied with all sorts of fiddley trickery to squeeze that last polygon out of the machine, but it's all the GAME...and if the games are mediocre, who cares what the specs are. There's people still playing the SNES for crissakes because some of those games are just too awesome to die...and they don't have HDR/Bloomy/Hoodadmajig/polyelasticwhatnot...

[Typhoeus]

Oh, well, that's excellent news! Definately gonna get it for the 360 now.

[ShinMaruku]

The trickery that Motrostorm uses is as kinda compalin about is HDR with some nice use of motion blur and other effects to give the game smooth fluid animation.
Nver said the 360 has a weak CPU but I don't think it can fling around as much crap as the cell and since it won't be king in the pysics deparment some effects really won't be shonw in the asme calibur as the PS3 thus I say it will look greta but some of the effects animations and thigns just won't be the same. I'm looking beyond graphics here.
As for RR6 it was not 60fps I heard bitching about that and if it was then why the hell woudl they call RR7 the smoothest racing game so far on animations?


I can't see how you can't like LAIR or hevaly sword you seem to ahte the bloom effect.

[Deathcraze]

Ridge Racer 6 was 60fps and I'm just going to leave it at that after this post since this should be about PSU. You may have heard bitching but it was obviously from people who aren't well informed or just spreading lies probably in a pro PS3 agenda which is just childist at best. Hell you can download 60fps videos at Kikizo or Xboxyde if you insist. Put "ridge racer 6 60fps" into google and just look at all those confirmations!

60fps means nothing for actual animation except to act as a ceiling to the max frames of animation you could see. You could have a game running at 60fps where you could get a character to move his arm up to his head and in the next frame it is there and then a second later it is back down again. That would be 2 frames of animation which would be terrible animation but it was just an example.


No, the minimum support for an XBox360 game is 720P at widescreen. (They have to at least code it to work in 480P as well, but 720P is the minimum requirement.)

I think they might not be so strict on this anymore but I think it is bad PR for whatever developer that doesn't aim for 720p. I know that Bizarre had trouble getting PGR3 out at launch at 720p so they rendered the game at something like 1024x600 which would fit in the EDRAM with 2xAA then the 360s scaler took it and scaled it to 720p.

[watashiwa]

On 2006-09-26 18:10, Deathcraze wrote:
I think they might not be so strict on this anymore but I think it is bad PR for whatever developer that doesn't aim for 720p.


They've never let down on this requirement. 1024x600 is not true 1280x720.. but interpolating it to 720p is pretty close. I guess it was good enough to pass. 1024x600 is still a big difference from 640x480. =P

But, anyway .. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/powerplay.htm



The HD Era

High definition is upon us, and Xbox 360 is ready. Games are required to be authored for 720p and 1080i, and all games are optimized for the 16:9 widescreen viewing ratio. That doesn't mean you have to have an HDTV to play Xbox 360 games. Xbox 360 games always look good, but they look spectacular on your high-definition display.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-09-25 14:43, Valkayree wrote:

Your PC sucks, the game looks like PS2 quality. Your PC is alienware or better, it will quite possibly look better than the 360, but you won't be playing on a 60 inch HDTV, now will ya?
Well no, but then neither I nor anyone I know has a 60-inch HDTV. HDTVs are still pretty few and far between as far as average household status is concerned, and as for really large screen ones... well, most people don't spend that much money on a new car, let alone a TV.

Also, computer monitors have been doing "HDTV" resolutions for a long time now, and most can go higher than 1600x1200 nowadays (or whatever the widescreen equivalent is). Not to mention, many videocards support output to a television monitor, so if you do have that 60-inch HDTV, you can go ahead and hook your PC up to it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-26 19:57 ]</font>

[Alisha]

On 2006-09-26 13:13, Valkayree wrote:


On 2006-09-26 05:03, Serephim wrote:
PS3 is the most retarded system ive ever heard of.

Who the hell pays $600 for a damn game system? Sony's marketing, cheating, lying, and asinie remarks towards the success of their system has already set them so far back into the console race it isnt even funny.



Most of you guys were still in the womb around this time, but a while back when CDs first came out two companies released two CD based gaming systems, the 3DO and the CD-i. Both retailed at around $300-$400. This was astounding at the time because Nintendo had the market on lock down and sold its consoles for WAAAAAY cheaper. This was before the original playstation. Now of course these two $300+ systems didn't come off of the success of two previous gaming consoles, so they vanished into nonexisistance thanks to the crappy 7th Guest-like motion video (gimmicky live action stuff) and high cost of the system. Hopefully Sony read up on its gaming history. If Sony and the Playstation die this go around, it will be because of Blue Ray cratering and the console being too expensive. If it survives, it is only because of some of these good looking exclusive titles they are advertising combined with its legions of preexisting fanboys who have probably already got their $600 saved up. Sony's third party support is legendary, and they take care of their rpg fans. I'm pretty sure that blue ray will not be an industry standard though, especially if sony has to go cheap on its codec to play dvds in HD quality because they don't want to pay microsoft for the rights to use their codec... I think Microsoft may win out in the long run, but barely. It may end up like nintendo and Sega, who knows, at one time during gaming history Atari was unstoppable. But due to some bad decisions (not giving developers credit for thier games, to name one) many of their best devs broke off into third party companies (Activision) and weakened the company. Atari later ended up making crap like ET on the 2600 (bleh) and people stopped respecting their games. Not to mention their CEO stepped down before all this. Atari made good games when the entire staff was on drugs, lol. A few years later, the industry picked up in Japan with the Famicom, but almost died in NA until Nintendo exported the clunky gray box we all know and love, and Sega jumped in to provide the competition, and good competition at that. I still wish they would re-make Mutant League Football, lol.


3do came out when i was in middle school for samurai showdown and super street fighter 2 turbo http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif lolz@way of the warrior XD
news flash some people dont have an hdtv and dont plan to buy one anytime soon and such dont give a shit about 457987876750p. i plan to buy a ps3 and i dont even know what hdmi is or why i should care. frankly the games that will be coming out for it after launch look more interesting that anything currently on 360. much like the oroginal xbox most 360 games have a decidely american look and feel to them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-09-26 21:13 ]</font>

[HyperShot-X-]

On 2006-09-26 19:55, Kyuu wrote:


On 2006-09-25 14:43, Valkayree wrote:

Your PC sucks, the game looks like PS2 quality. Your PC is alienware or better, it will quite possibly look better than the 360, but you won't be playing on a 60 inch HDTV, now will ya?
Well no, but then neither I nor anyone I know has a 60-inch HDTV. HDTVs are still pretty few and far between as far as average household status is concerned, and as for really large screen ones... well, most people don't spend that much money on a new car, let alone a TV.

Also, computer monitors have been doing "HDTV" resolutions for a long time now, and most can go higher than 1600x1200 nowadays (or whatever the widescreen equivalent is). Not to mention, many videocards support output to a television monitor, so if you do have that 60-inch HDTV, you can go ahead and hook your PC up to it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-26 19:57 ]</font>


Price range for HDTV's nowdays came down a lot and will continue to come down in the next couple yrs, so many more ppl should be able to afford one easily and it doesn't have to be that big as 60-inch, i own 22-inch LCD flat panel widescreen HDtv that fits nicely on desktop in my room for watching dvd's & playing games, prices are around $450-$600 now.

There's no use hooking up ur pc to HDtv since PSU pc version can't do 16:9 widescreen mode anyways.


For those who don't plan on upgrading to HDtv for the next gen HD gaming era, you got no idea what u'r missing out really, it's like filling up the gas tank for ur V8 engine car with 'Regular' gasoline instead of 'Super' which isn't wise at all. Ppl will get motion sickness from playing 60fps games on old CRT tube when they were designed & optimized to run on HD digital TVs. If you even give a shyt about ur own heath and enjoying healthy gaming, you should try to rethink how u spend that 600 bucks. On X360, DOA4, EnchantedArms, RR6, PSU, & others don't got that 'american' look at least if that matters to u or anyone at all.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-26 23:20 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

Um, you don't need a widescreen display to have high resolutions. In fact, I've never seen the great appeal to the widescreen format. It's nice, but hardly something worth frothing at the mouth over. Computer monitors have always looked better to me than any HDTV, anyway. Not to mention, as nice as LCD/plasma/whatever technology has gotten, CRT monitors like mine still look better. Better contrast, better color definition, no blurring from latency no matter how fast things move.

Whatever floats your boat, though.

And yeah prices are coming down, but that hardly means they're cheap. My 19" computer monitor has about as much viewable area as your 22" HDTV anyway, so I don't see what I'm missing really.

Edit: I don't mean to start some stupid argument about HDTV versus computers and whatever. I just mean to say that it's a bit off to say that people are missing out if they don't have HDTVs, when computer gamers have been experiencing games in higher resolutions than HDTVs support for a number of years. If you're speaking exclusively to console gamers, then sure. But still, as nice as it looks, TVs still look just fine as long as you've got at least an S-video connection or better.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-26 23:33 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

CRT screens definitely still have the best reproduction of color, I'll give you that.. but image clarity? No, I don't think so.. Everything is quite a bit clearer and more defined (especially text or really fine pixel data) on an updated technology.. Also, as the guy before you posted, viewing images for a long period of time is much more comfortable on anything besides CRT... Even if your CRT is pumped up at 85hz or higher.. LCD and what not is EXTREMELY more comfortable on the eyes.. even in an extremely dark room. Also, latency is really only a problem on LCD as far as I know.. Plasma doesn't suffer from latency, neither does DLP.

However, Plasma has been rumored to have "burn in", although newer Plasma has some sort of technique to offset that. CRT also suffers from burn in, but it takes a REALLY LONG TIME for a CRT to burn in.

DLP's only negative, as far as I know, is the rainbow effect caused from certain images scrolling on the screen.

The newer LCD technology like SXRD, hardly has any latency problems either.. AND the contrast ratio has been GREATLY improved. Talking about like 10,000:1 as well as 2.5ms response times.. I've seen the SXRD in action and even playing some games on it.. it's not really that bad.

HOWEVER, if you're been REALLY paying attention to HD evolution, you'd know that the new SED technology coming out is supposed to be just as good as CRT .. but in a flat panel. Accurate blacks, no latency issues whatsoever ... some dub it as the Holy Grail of HD.. but I guess we'll see when it comes out. =P It'll most likely cost an arm and a leg at first, but prices will drop on it later. (I also expect, with the release of SED, that current technology will drop a lot in price too..)

I'm actually considering selling my Sony XBR970 HDTV (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KD34XBR970&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_34to36TVs) already to get one of the SXRD 1080p TVs (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDS50A2000&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_42to5 1TVs).. (I would get one of the new XBR LCD TVs.. (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDSR60XBR2&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to8 0TVs) but those are too fucking expensive..)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-09-26 23:58 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

Interesting, I haven't heard of that SED technology (or at least if I have, I don't remember it at all). Got any links to a good article about it? I like to keep up to date on that sort of stuff whenever possible.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-26 23:58 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

I only have a quick link.. It's just a wikipedia link @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-conduction_electron-emitter_display

Although.. I've been reading up on it at AVSforum.. like awhile ago.. here's a big ass thread regarding it.. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=491741&highlight=SED

[Alisha]

Also, as the guy before you posted, viewing images for a long period of time is much more comfortable on anything besides CRT... Even if your CRT is pumped up at 85hz or higher.. LCD and what not is EXTREMELY more comfortable on the eyes.. even in an extremely dark room.

what are you talking about? comfortable?i've heard of people that cant look at computer monitors for a long period of time but its never been a problem for me. i mean once when i was a kid my eyes started twitching when i was playing megaman 4,but its never been a problem for me since then. maybee im a freak of nature lol... it's not uncommon for me to stare at a crt for 8+ hours.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-09-27 00:26 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

Thanks watashiwa. I certainly hope they can get that technology into mass production... basically a CRT without with the size or weight. Very nice.

[Mazoku]

Well no, but then neither I nor anyone I know has a 60-inch HDTV. HDTVs are still pretty few and far between as far as average household status is concerned, and as for really large screen ones... well, most people don't spend that much money on a new car, let alone a TV.

I will be playing PSU on my 360 on a 61 inch DLP HDTV. The TV costed under $3000. Your comparison to the price of a new car is extremely inaccurate.

I am very far from rich. I am married and have my own house. Once you're out of school it's not so difficult to buy such things.

[Kers]

"...most people don't spend that much money on a new car". I'm pretty shure that doesn't mean the price of a new car, but the extra money spent on one.

Anyways, I still haven't bought a good HDTV, but it's around the top of my list!

[Kyuu]

On 2006-09-27 00:41, Mazoku wrote:

I will be playing PSU on my 360 on a 61 inch DLP HDTV. The TV costed under $3000. Your comparison to the price of a new car is extremely inaccurate.

I am very far from rich. I am married and have my own house. Once you're out of school it's not so difficult to buy such things.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exaggeration

And for your average person, $3000 is still not a reasonable amount to pay for a television. Obviously if having a really big HDTV is a priority, then you can probably figure out a way to make it work. But most people have things much higher on their priority list. Like food, bills, etc.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-27 08:59 ]</font>

[Shrevn]

Ok, so weved been able to establish that the 360 can look nice... but heres the real question fellas... How many *count them* how many actual good games are out right now?... really *counts with one hand* uhh? and dont give me the "it just came out" BS.. Look MS is in it for the money theyved stated that many times Sure XBL is nice some games may look nice but gameplay wise, Controls wise they're pure crap. Talk to me when i see a FFXII type game that sells as much as any FF tittle in japan.
A good computer looks much better then a 360 anyday, You speak HDTV... Yes it also runs you about 2grand a PC that can match that runs me 15hundred or less if you build it yourself





And for your average person, $3000 is still not a reasonable amount to pay for a television. Obviously if having a really big HDTV is a priority, then you can probably figure out a way to make it work. But most people have things much higher on their priority list. Like food, bills, etc

Amen to that btw. Bills FTW! >_>;; lol

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shrevn on 2006-09-27 09:55 ]</font>

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-26 21:12, Alisha wrote:

3do came out when i was in middle school for samurai showdown and super street fighter 2 turbo http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif lolz@way of the warrior XD
news flash some people dont have an hdtv and dont plan to buy one anytime soon and such dont give a shit about 457987876750p. i plan to buy a ps3 and i dont even know what hdmi is or why i should care. frankly the games that will be coming out for it after launch look more interesting that anything currently on 360. much like the oroginal xbox most 360 games have a decidely american look and feel to them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-09-26 21:13 ]</font>


Enchanted Arms, Ninety Nine Nights, FFXI. Looks like they are working on it, but I agree. Just a shame it is so expensive.

[Valkayree]

On 2006-09-26 23:15, HyperShot-X- wrote:


On 2006-09-26 19:55, Kyuu wrote:


On 2006-09-25 14:43, Valkayree wrote:

Your PC sucks, the game looks like PS2 quality. Your PC is alienware or better, it will quite possibly look better than the 360, but you won't be playing on a 60 inch HDTV, now will ya?
Well no, but then neither I nor anyone I know has a 60-inch HDTV. HDTVs are still pretty few and far between as far as average household status is concerned, and as for really large screen ones... well, most people don't spend that much money on a new car, let alone a TV.

Also, computer monitors have been doing "HDTV" resolutions for a long time now, and most can go higher than 1600x1200 nowadays (or whatever the widescreen equivalent is). Not to mention, many videocards support output to a television monitor, so if you do have that 60-inch HDTV, you can go ahead and hook your PC up to it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-09-26 19:57 ]</font>


Price range for HDTV's nowdays came down a lot and will continue to come down in the next couple yrs, so many more ppl should be able to afford one easily and it doesn't have to be that big as 60-inch, i own 22-inch LCD flat panel widescreen HDtv that fits nicely on desktop in my room for watching dvd's & playing games, prices are around $450-$600 now.

There's no use hooking up ur pc to HDtv since PSU pc version can't do 16:9 widescreen mode anyways.


For those who don't plan on upgrading to HDtv for the next gen HD gaming era, you got no idea what u'r missing out really, it's like filling up the gas tank for ur V8 engine car with 'Regular' gasoline instead of 'Super' which isn't wise at all. Ppl will get motion sickness from playing 60fps games on old CRT tube when they were designed & optimized to run on HD digital TVs. If you even give a shyt about ur own heath and enjoying healthy gaming, you should try to rethink how u spend that 600 bucks. On X360, DOA4, EnchantedArms, RR6, PSU, & others don't got that 'american' look at least if that matters to u or anyone at all.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HyperShot-X- on 2006-09-26 23:20 ]</font>


I just priced a nice 60 inch at $1800 at circuit city. I have a job and no children, so hey, why not...

[qoxolg]

The trickery that Motrostorm uses is as kinda compalin about is HDR with some nice use of motion blur and other effects to give the game smooth fluid animation.
Never said the 360 has a weak CPU but I don't think it can fling around as much crap as the cell and since it won't be king in the pysics deparment some effects really won't be shown in the same caliber as the PS3 thus I say it will look great but some of the effects animations and things just won't be the same. I'm looking beyond graphics here.
As for RR6 it was not 60fps I heard bitching about that and if it was then why the hell would they call RR7 the smoothest racing game so far on animations?


I can't see how you can't like LAIR or heavenly sword you seem to hate the bloom effect.

I asume you don't own a 360 yourself? HDR and motionblur are getting pretty much standard in most games. Ever played Kameo? The game is using all kinds of effects without a problem, HDR, blur, dept of field, water shaders, heat gaze, etc etc.. It's sad people think they don't like kameo because it doesn't have those "realistic" graphics, but till now its the best looking game I've played besides Lost Planet..

Don't underestimate the 360 and especially not the CPU, it might not have a cell proc, but it's still a fast monster! and N3, Dead Rising and Kameo already proved that woth the hundereds of enemy's onscreen..

another thing about the effects: Most graphical effects that you name are all being calculated by the GPU.. so the cell won't help anything with that. Also don't forget the GPU in the PS3 and 360 are pretty much equal.. Some differences are that the 360 GPU got 48 Unified shaders, and the GPU got 512MB GDDR3 memory versus 256MB in the PS3. but the 360 has to share the 512MB with the system, but thats not a problem cause GDDR3 memory is alot faster (above 1,5Ghz if I am correct) then your ordinary system memory. And ofcoure the ED-RAM in the 360, but that yet have to prove itself with the UR3 engine and 1080p games..

I don't hate bloom effects, but the PS3 is really using it to much, to make al games look cool and shiney..


For those who don't plan on upgrading to HDtv for the next gen HD gaming era, you have no idea what your missing out really

I agree with that.. most people don't believe HD makes a difference and a SDTV is fine.. I've said that as well when I first bought my 360.. untill I played it on my 19" monitor.. I was just like.. WOW..


Um, you don't need a widescreen display to have high resolutions. In fact, I've never seen the great appeal to the widescreen format.

In most games the horizontal screenspace is alot more important than the vertical, this is with shooters, fighting games, racing.. I actually can't think of any kind of game that would benefit 4:3


Ok, so weved been able to establish that the 360 can look nice... but heres the real question fellas... How many *count them* how many actual good games are out right now?... What is good? what is bad? it's all an opinion... there are people that are dieing to play Halo3 and I wouldn't care if Halo3 would be canceld for 360 and developed for the PS3 instead.. really *counts with one hand* uhh? and dont give me the "it just came out" BS.. Look MS is in it for the money theyved stated that many times Sure XBL is nice some games may look nice but gameplay wise, Controls wise they're pure crap And how do you know that? that is the most stupid statement I've ever heard.. I've played enough games on my 360 and never had problems with gameplay, and the 360 controller is just the best imo . Talk to me when i see a FFXII type game that sells as much as any FF tittle in japan. Does a good selling game make a game good? of course! the Sims is the best game EVAH!11!! yeah right..
A good computer looks much better then a 360 anyday I haven't seen any good looking game on a PC besides Crysis, but we can't count that one becuase there is no DX10 card on the market. You speak HDTV... Yes it also runs you about 2grand a PC that can match that runs me 15hundred or less if you build it yourself


much like the oroginal xbox most 360 games have a decidely american look and feel to them

Ofcourse there are still alot of the boring shooters and sports games, but the amount of JRPG's for the 360 is already surpassing the XBOX1..

here are some links of some cool vids that show some non american look 'n feel games:

http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_3083_en.html
http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_3059_en.html
http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_3054_en.html
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3592_en.html PSU on X06?? O_O

you can also just keep an eye on this page: http://www.xboxyde.com/index_en.html

[ShinMaruku]

I always knew that SDTV was crap.. then again I was one of the EARLY adopters had them huge ass CRTV.

That siad Kameo was the first 360 game I played liked the artstyle and all but twas short. I bleive peopel discount it on merly artstyle.

[qoxolg]

It's as long as you like to play it, I've played the game ALOT of hours, I am #24 in the all time rankings http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But I agree that the story mode is a bit short.