Player Shops

[Kaply]

I'm wondering if the store system is really as convoluted as the way I'm currently using it.

When I want to find an item to buy, I do a search for the item. Then the game gives me a listing of rooms that have said item for sale. Then I have to go visit the room to find out the prices. Then if I don't like the prices offered I have to back out of their room, and start the process again.

Is this the only way to find items? This is extremely time consuming since the game forces a load time for searching the item and then again for entering and exiting another room.

[GaijinPUnch]

Yes, it is good and bad. Bad, in that you have people selling things for more than the NPC shops to get people in (try finding Maruselin or Nanocarbon). The good part is, you can sometimes find stuff REALLY cheap. I found a shop that had loads of 5-star weapons for 7500 and 8000 meseta. I lifted as many as I could, and sold them in my shop for 12,500. Sold through those in mere minutes, went back, rinsed, and repeated. I've probably made 40k this weekend on that alone.

The other option is to search the shop description. I've found that this can take a lot longer than searching for item names. The good side is, people often put their prices in the description. The bad side is you don't know if they still have it left or not. The truth of the matter is, you can easily spend more time than it would take to go out, fight, and make the money you would've saved. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

And I've got a question of my own. I see some shops are locked. Anyone know how to do this? I'm too chicken to use the Shop Close reform ticket, as I don't know if you can re-open w/o buying another 15k Shop Open ticket. FIgured I'd check first. The locking seems like a great way to pass items to other characters (for 1 meseta each) w/ needing a 3rd party.

[Alisha]

how does selling things for more than npc shops get people in?

[Rizen]

On 2006-09-24 05:24, Alisha wrote:
how does selling things for more than npc shops get people in?

I'm going to take a long shot and guess he means that people go to those shop because they cant find/too lazy to go to the NPC to buy it. Common tatic of making money in MMOs.

[Rahbzig]

On 2006-09-24 05:20, GaijinPUnch wrote:
Yes, it is good and bad. Bad, in that you have people selling things for more than the NPC shops to get people in (try finding Maruselin or Nanocarbon). The good part is, you can sometimes find stuff REALLY cheap. I found a shop that had loads of 5-star weapons for 7500 and 8000 meseta. I lifted as many as I could, and sold them in my shop for 12,500. Sold through those in mere minutes, went back, rinsed, and repeated. I've probably made 40k this weekend on that alone.

Making your contribution to the rise of inflation, I see.
I understand that if you didn't do it someone else would. It just frustrates me that player run economies usually go down the toilet really fast.

[Kaply]

Quite a few times I've been tempted to buy things just because I didn't want to bother searching for the items again and then visiting another shop and wasting so much time on this. It just so would have killed ST to have implmented the search listing to also include the price of the items.

[Rahbzig]

On 2006-09-24 05:38, Kaply wrote:
Quite a few times I've been tempted to buy things just because I didn't want to bother searching for the items again and then visiting another shop and wasting so much time on this. It just so would have killed ST to have implmented the search listing to also include the price of the items.


It's not out of the realm of possibilities that they could patch that functionality in, you know.
On the other hand, they may have left it out on purpose.

[A2K]

On 2006-09-24 05:20, GaijinPUnch wrote:
And I've got a question of my own. I see some shops are locked. Anyone know how to do this? I'm too chicken to use the Shop Close reform ticket, as I don't know if you can re-open w/o buying another 15k Shop Open ticket. FIgured I'd check first. The locking seems like a great way to pass items to other characters (for 1 meseta each) w/ needing a 3rd party.


There's a panel by the exit doorway where you can set lock/unlock your room. If you have a shop, the panel to lock "moves" to the new exit in the store.

What do you mean when you speak of moving items to different characters? Can't you use the shared box for that?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-09-24 05:57 ]</font>

[Kaply]

Sort of like mailing items to friends instead of having to meet up with each other in order to give the item to them

[A2K]

Ah, I see.

Anyway, to address the original topic, I think navigating the room system in general is a bit convoluted. Why is it I need to go back to my room every time I do something aside from store hop? There are no options to go to any other partners' rooms from someone else's terminal. Walking out the door in someone else's room sends me back to my own. I can't even leave the room system from someone else's; I have to head back to mine first. It wouldn't be so much of an issue if it didn't take a few seconds to load every time, but it does. It's just such a hassle.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-09-24 06:54 ]</font>

[Arrow203]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif I wanna know how you move to another persons room online... do you have to go through my room first to get to theirs? What's up?

[A2K]

Well, first thing's first, you have to have their partner card to begin with. Once you're in your room, activate the desk terminal ("Vision Phone") and I believe it's the second or third option. Whatever one opens up your partner card list.

[Xx3of19xX]

While on the topic of the ingame economy, can you sell weapons/armor that you don't use anymore to other players? Or do weapons and armor "bind on equip", i.e. become personal, like in World of Warcraft.
If they don't, how are they gonna prevent rampart inflation?

[StanleyPain]

Well, I can tell everyone now I love the idea of the system and I plan on being very fair and generous. If this had been in PSO, it would have been awesome.
I plan on selling as much as I can for very reasonable prices so that newer players can get some cool stuff cheap.
I used to give so much away in PSO, which I'll prolly still do with some things, but now it's a more efficient way to "spread the love" so to speak.

[Eclypse]

The idea of a player run economy on any PSO/PSU was a stupid idea in my opinion and I can't believe ST would even implement something like this. I wouldn't be surprised if people stopped buying anything from Player Stores eventually. I've heard stories about FFXI economy, and I can only imagine how PSU will be with all the people that jack up prices for the sake of gaining.

I don't blame anyone for jacking up there prices seeing as I would probably do it also, but I still think it's a horrible idea.

[Kaply]

new players aren't going to figure out the system, you'll just end up selling to resellers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Eclypse]

New players will figure out the system because it's common sense and it's something thats been done on games with player controlled economies for a long time. It's the main reason why the system in FFXI is so screwed up from what I hear, depending on what server you are on.

As I said though, I don't blame people for doing it, because if someone is dumb enough to buy something for 5000 more than it's worth, that is there problem for being ignorant.

[Cross]

On 2006-09-24 10:03, Eclypse wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if people stopped buying anything from Player Stores eventually.



All that says is that you haven't played the game. The vast majority of the items you'll be using past, oh, level 20 or so are not available in NPC stores. While Sega will probably update shop inventory, I don't expect the balance to change much, because it works. The only alternative to buying from player stores is crafting everything yourself, and, well, good luck, especially if you want high-grinded items.

Personally, I like it a lot, and in fact I prefer this to an Auction House style system where you can see the prices (or at least the trends in prices). The current system is extremely opportunistic. You can buy or sell instantly if you don't mind paying a premium (or not making the average market value), or you can be diligent/lucky and end up finding items for much cheaper than the average rate (or selling for basically as much as an NPC would sell for).

Edit: Couple things I thought were addressed but I guess weren't:

Then if I don't like the prices offered I have to back out of their room, and start the process again.

You don't have to leave a player shop to search for another one. You can either use the Video Phone in their room, or you can use the terminal at the counter of their shop to start another search. You only have to return to your room if you want to leave the rooms entirely, if you want to access your PM/store, or if you want to visit a friend's room who doesn't have a shop installed.

On 2006-09-24 05:24, Alisha wrote:
how does selling things for more than npc shops get people in?

If you search for Marserin (a crafting item needed for probably 90% of the items that are getting crafted right now), it returns a list of all the shops that have it in stock. Since it's such a high-demand item, lots of people go looking for it.
Marserin is buyable from NPCs at 1200 meseta, so nobody really pays more than that. If you set one for 5000 meseta, nobody is going to buy it, but your shop is still going to be listed every time somebody searches for Marserin.

It's a pretty stupid tactic; there's about as much business sense behind that as behind an e-mail spam campaign, because if somebody is looking for Marserin, the chances that they'll stop to browse and buy your other junk is about as likely as somebody buying penis pills just because an e-mail that got caught by their junk filter told them to.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-09-24 11:09 ]</font>

[StanleyPain]

Why would people stop using the stores if they knew for a fact there were people who weren't interested in selling crap for more? I've never played FFXI, but other games I've played with economies never "failed' because of people overcharging....some people just didn't care, others just made a better market.
I don't really see a game-killing problem here. Like any other social behaviour thing, it just takes getting out there and discovering who's the problem and who's the solution.

[GaijinPUnch]

Making your contribution to the rise of inflation, I see.

Don't be an idiot. I sold the items for a few thousand less than they usually go for. I don't see the problem.


how does selling things for more than npc shops get people in?

Read the OP's message. You search for an item that's expensive in an NPC shop, but you need lots of. Nanocarbon or Marsarin or something). You search for shops that have it... you can't search for the price. You get there, and it's totally expensive. But hey, the guy got you there.


What do you mean when you speak of moving items to different characters? Can't you use the shared box for that?

I guess if I knew that it existed. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Must check for that.


All that says is that you haven't played the game.

Amen.

[Haruka-sama]

Does your shop stay open & can people buy stuff from you if you're offline or not in your room?

[Cross]

Yes, your shop is always there.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-09-24 10:03, Eclypse wrote:
The idea of a player run economy on any PSO/PSU was a stupid idea in my opinion and I can't believe ST would even implement something like this. I wouldn't be surprised if people stopped buying anything from Player Stores eventually. I've heard stories about FFXI economy, and I can only imagine how PSU will be with all the people that jack up prices for the sake of gaining.

I don't blame anyone for jacking up there prices seeing as I would probably do it also, but I still think it's a horrible idea.
If you don't like it, don't buy from the player stores. No one is forcing you. Meanwhile, there are those of us who like in-game economics. And, luckily, PSU isn't like FFXI, WoW, or EQ. There's no reason you'd ever have to purchase over-priced crap. If people are charging rediculous prices, just don't buy.

To answer an earlier question, there is no "binding" in PSU, either on Equip or Pickup. Passing on things you don't need/want anymore is something that happens all the time in real economics, and I frankly never saw the need for such an arbitrary and unnatural control. The binding only drives prices up because it makes things rarer and harder to come by because equipment that been used becomes untradable.

[Xx3of19xX]

Regarding binding and the economic factor. The problem if you don't have binding, like in PSO, eventually the market will be so flooded with items that it might collapse. The advantage of bind on equip items is that the market is kept somewhat stable.
Then again, from what I gathered in PSU equipment is used for synthesis and also there is a risk of permanently destroying weapons when grinding them. Maybe that will help to keep the market somewhat stable.

[Tystys]

On 2006-09-24 14:14, Cross wrote:
Yes, your shop is always there.



That's good to hear. I hate in like every game I play that I have to be AFK on the computer in order to actually run a succesful shop.

[anmato145]

On 2006-09-24 14:35, Kyuu wrote:


On 2006-09-24 10:03, Eclypse wrote:
The idea of a player run economy on any PSO/PSU was a stupid idea in my opinion and I can't believe ST would even implement something like this. I wouldn't be surprised if people stopped buying anything from Player Stores eventually. I've heard stories about FFXI economy, and I can only imagine how PSU will be with all the people that jack up prices for the sake of gaining.

I don't blame anyone for jacking up there prices seeing as I would probably do it also, but I still think it's a horrible idea.
If you don't like it, don't buy from the player stores. No one is forcing you. Meanwhile, there are those of us who like in-game economics. And, luckily, PSU isn't like FFXI, WoW, or EQ. There's no reason you'd ever have to purchase over-priced crap. If people are charging rediculous prices, just don't buy.

To answer an earlier question, there is no "binding" in PSU, either on Equip or Pickup. Passing on things you don't need/want anymore is something that happens all the time in real economics, and I frankly never saw the need for such an arbitrary and unnatural control. The binding only drives prices up because it makes things rarer and harder to come by because equipment that been used becomes untradable.



I completely agree with Kyuu. Your not forced to buy things you "need" in this game. You can go out and get it. And just because the economy is controlled by the players is not stupid. It adds a new aspect to the game that invites even more players into the mix. "Hearing" about economic probs is nowhere near experiencing it. If you played FFXI you'd know exactly why the economy on certain servers were as bad as they are.

Personally I love that they added it so that players control the economy. Adds alil more to do other then hack n slash http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Eclypse]

On 2006-09-24 14:35, Kyuu wrote:
If you don't like it, don't buy from the player stores. No one is forcing you. Meanwhile, there are those of us who like in-game economics. And, luckily, PSU isn't like FFXI, WoW, or EQ. There's no reason you'd ever have to purchase over-priced crap. If people are charging rediculous prices, just don't buy.

No really, I had never thought about that. I know that no one is forcing anyone to buy an item but as Cross stated if you need to purchase something and it's only found in the PC stores post level 20 then it really doesn't give you much choice in the matter unless you want to craft your own items all the time.

I will be a person that buys stuff because I always find deals, I did it in FFXI and I am sure I will find a sucker on PSU, they always exist.

[anmato145]

Suckers are the best way to get rich... Sad but true.

[GaijinPUnch]

Suckers are the best way to get rich... Sad but true.

Yeah, see my post. Then again, I've mispriced two items already. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Magician]

Huh, looks like I'll be a benefit to the bargain seekers and resellers since I plan to sell my unwanted goods 10%-15% less than NPC stores.

[OT]Just one month to go for the US release! Right on!

[Kaply]

Well, if anyone really followed the process of how I was describing to search and research, there's one thing that I didn't realize. You can use the cash register of another players shop to do further searches so you don't have to return back to your home to do a new search.

[Saner]

I thought the cash registers are used to take out money. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[A2K]

On 2006-09-25 04:59, Kaply wrote:
Well, if anyone really followed the process of how I was describing to search and research, there's one thing that I didn't realize. You can use the cash register of another players shop to do further searches so you don't have to return back to your home to do a new search.


It's not really a cash register as it is just a second video phone. I thought at first maybe a person could conceivably lock his room, but not his store, but apparently that's not the case. I suppose it's just more convenient than having to run into the guy's room in either case, though.

[Saner]

I still don't understand your sig. what do you mean by 'knack'? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kakashi_Xero]

the skill for something i believe is what it means

[A2K]

On 2006-09-25 06:17, Saner wrote:
I still don't understand your sig. what do you mean by 'knack'? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Ever play "Gran Squall" or "Dr. Osto's Research" in PSO Episode 1?

[Saner]

oh like they unlocked a treasure chest/hacked a terminal/switch to open a gate, etc. ?

[Saner]

I forgot those quests. I just remember the marriage/weight quest and a quest with the pink caseal and a quest with that purple cast finding that orange humar, and stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Kakashi_Xero]

ah the quests were fun, even though some were monotonous

[Animosity]

On 2006-09-24 10:03, Eclypse wrote:
The idea of a player run economy on any PSO/PSU was a stupid idea in my opinion and I can't believe ST would even implement something like this. I wouldn't be surprised if people stopped buying anything from Player Stores eventually. I've heard stories about FFXI economy, and I can only imagine how PSU will be with all the people that jack up prices for the sake of gaining.

I don't blame anyone for jacking up there prices seeing as I would probably do it also, but I still think it's a horrible idea.



ff11s economy for the most part was realistic.when people sold alot of crystals the prices went down when they sold a little it went up. in the case of rare stuff that only one person is selling... yes sometimes about a 40000 dollar price gouge

[Saner]

ff11s economy for the most part was realistic.



realistic doesn't mean fun.

like not having money for an overpriced RK Army Shield and then having the money but the AH no longer has it in stock. needless frustration for a needless economy.

AH is just an excuse for exploiters to get rich quicker and the rest getting poorer.

I rather have good NPC shops handing most of the shopping/selling needs.

[Cry0]

lol. I hope to find a real rare item (not-crafteable) which I dont need, and then sell it at a million meseta. MUHahahaahaha. no more money problems http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Zarbolord]

As I said, those who are for it... just go play SIMS...

[Sevenfold]

On 2006-09-25 10:36, Cry0 wrote:
lol. I hope to find a real rare item (not-crafteable) which I dont need, and then sell it at a million meseta. MUHahahaahaha. no more money problems http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Hmm, well after you do call me up, Ill have the meseta http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[SonicTMP]

WoW's auction house/mail system > searching for player rooms/trading face to face.

Seriously, is it so hard to make a centeral system for buy and sell nowadays? It's like they try to make everything else so advanced but still in the stone ages for making a good economy system.

[wyzwun]

ive always liked the bazaar system over AH... fact that my bazaar runs 24/7 makes it even better. people will build up a rep and specialize at selling certain items... sounds like fun times.

[Flamingo99]

This question is sort of off topic, but does it say the name of the person who bought your goods? I doubt it, I'm just curious. I know the room has a log for when people went into your room, but I'm not sure if the shop does the same thing.