Battle: PSU vs. WoW [Archive]

Kyuu

Sep 27, 2006, 01:59 PM

On 2006-09-27 11:54, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

PSU is no where near the scope of a MMO, its not a "different" type of MMO, its NOT an MMO. From what I can tell its mostly kids who came around the advent of ffxi and WoW and call any online adventure game an MMO. If you want to compare PSU to the likes of ffxi or WoW then call it an MO since they ALL fit this umbrella, PSU does not go under the MMO umbrella. Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean that no one can tell the difference, its the same as when people who suck at games they will convince themsleves that if they suck, everyone else must suck too.
Because obviously your opinion is fact.

MMO = Massively multiplayer online. Massively multiplayer means a lot of people can interact and play together. I don't see how PSU doesn't fit that bill. Online should be pretty self-explanatory.

krika

Sep 27, 2006, 02:04 PM

On 2006-09-27 11:54, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
PSU is no where near the scope of a MMO, its not a "different" type of MMO, its NOT an MMO. From what I can tell its mostly kids who came around the advent of ffxi and WoW and call any online adventure game an MMO. If you want to compare PSU to the likes of ffxi or WoW then call it an MO since they ALL fit this umbrella, PSU does not go under the MMO umbrella. Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean that no one can tell the difference, its the same as when people who suck at games they will convince themsleves that if they suck, everyone else must suck too.

Agree , well the bigger online games like wow and so on usally goes under the name mmorpg and not mmo. You dont say that GW is a mmorpg, it's a mmo. What you mean MO is usually just mmo. Kinda strange thou, it should be MO and not mmo and mmo is kinda the same thins as mmorpg.

[ This Message was edited by: krika on 2006-09-27 12:06 ]

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 02:07 PM

On 2006-09-27 11:59, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-09-27 11:54, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

PSU is no where near the scope of a MMO, its not a "different" type of MMO, its NOT an MMO. From what I can tell its mostly kids who came around the advent of ffxi and WoW and call any online adventure game an MMO. If you want to compare PSU to the likes of ffxi or WoW then call it an MO since they ALL fit this umbrella, PSU does not go under the MMO umbrella. Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean that no one can tell the difference, its the same as when people who suck at games they will convince themsleves that if they suck, everyone else must suck too.
Because obviously your opinion is fact.

MMO = Massively multiplayer online. Massively multiplayer means a lot of people can interact and play together. I don't see how PSU doesn't fit that bill. Online should be pretty self-explanatory.

*forgot to quote*

That not what MMO means, thats like saying that ANY GRAPHIC oreinted chat program can be an MMO whether it has gameplay or not. One of the key characterisitics to an MMO is beaing able to play with MORE than 6 players in areas that are allowed combat. Its also hypocritical to say that your description is more prudent than mine if you are to say that my statement isn't, yet yours is? If yours isn't fact, how can you refute if you don't believe your statament is fact which you will mroe than likely do since you don't sound like you thought your statement through when you said its self explanatory. Its not about general interaction, the interaction is specific, unlike WoW and/or FFXI you can't form alliances. being able to chat with a bunch of people ina lobby does not an MMO make. I can make this statament because out of all the games that are called MMOs PSU lacks this characteristic.

[ This Message was edited by: Blackwaltz-R on 2006-09-27 12:10 ]

Kyuu

Sep 27, 2006, 02:11 PM

I'm saying my description is more prudent than yours because it's based on what the words actually mean, and not an opinion about what constitutes an MMO and what doesn't based on personal feelings. Obviously, RPG part of MMORPG, which includes the word "game," is what identifies that it's not simply a graphical chat program.

Really, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me if you classify it as an MMORPG or a WTFBBQ. Just don't pretend that your opinion is fact.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 02:12 PM

It is fact, your ignorance and semantics doesn't change this fact. You might as well call PSO an MMO by your logic.

ALso:

People don;t expect to play an MMO MERELY to be able to chat with alot of people, people play MMOs to PLAY with alot of people. Intent of play dictates.

[ This Message was edited by: Blackwaltz-R on 2006-09-27 12:13 ]

Alsox2:

As an aspiring game designer it will be MY JOB to be able to classify and recognize what a type of any game is so I would think my statements would be more prudent than yours, not to sound self-righteuous. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Blackwaltz-R on 2006-09-27 12:18 ]

Hydra632

Sep 27, 2006, 02:13 PM

Any word on PSU PvP?

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 02:15 PM

Don't expect any pvp for this game. especially not this iteration. ask when PSUv2 is anounced.

Pacpunk

Sep 27, 2006, 02:17 PM

is this even a question PSU MAN!!!!!

Valkayree

Sep 27, 2006, 02:22 PM

On 2006-09-27 10:36, Pixiesugar wrote:

While PvP can be fun, inevitably there are ppl calling for nerfs on certain classes and drama solely due to dueling aspects.

It upsets me when developers test games over and over with experienced gamers before releasing their games, and the horde of unskilled wannabe decent gamers complain because they aren't good, and blame it on the game. I have a firm belief that there are games that everyone is good at, and the games that everyone is bad at. People who suck at a game spend all day badmouthing the devs asking for nerfing of specific characters just because they cannot compete, while the people who are actually good at the game spend all their time playing the game, instead of sending mails to the devs telling them how great it is and no nerfs should happen. Therefore, at the end of the day, we have 3000 wannabes asking for nerfs and the devs having no one to go against their claims, becuase those people are all playing the game and enjoying it. The devs think, well maybe we did something wrong, and nerf it, to the astonishment of everyone who loved the game originally. Case in point, Halo 2. Ooh, well, hordes of 12 year olds are complaining that the pistol is STILL too strong, when it is 5000 times weaker than the battle rifle/plasma pistol (Immanoob) combo. Oh, and kids are complaining that the banshee is too strong just because people spent all their time specializing and know how to fly it now. And they are using it to get to the top of maps. I know, lets listen to them and make the pistol the weakest weapon, and remove the banshee from all maps except one and a leave it in on a few special setups for one or two other maps. Then everyone will be happy! That was the day the game died. FFXI, they nerfed ranger, why? They should have nerfed white mage under their reasoning. Ooh whm is too strong, they can get scrolls that can teleport them anywhere! The ranger deals too much damage, what a damage dealer should do... Let's nerf it! Point is, I lose any and all respect for devs who nerf something for the wrong reasons. If you've tested the game thoroughly with experienced gamers and it works fine, do not listen to a bunch of whiny 12 year olds who have no idea what they are doing to begin with, or you will upset your devoted fan base. I hope Sonic Team knows this, cause they already nerfed the status effect hit percentages on my beloved ranger... My 2 meseta, sorry for the rant.

[ This Message was edited by: Valkayree on 2006-09-27 12:28 ]

Valkayree

Sep 27, 2006, 02:27 PM

On 2006-09-27 11:50, krika wrote:
You just cant compare WOW vs PSU , wow is a mmorpg , Psu just a mmo like Guild wars.

I'm really sick and tired on big mmorpgs like wow right now so PSU win.

And yes this is a pointless topic.

[ This Message was edited by: krika on 2006-09-27 11:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: krika on 2006-09-27 11:52 ]

Haha, you seem to be forgetting something. This is an online role playing game. Not a massively multiplayer online role playing game. You can only take 6 people into a room. I don't know what planet you are from, but here on Earth, "6" is not a massive number. Lobbies do not count, they are basically graphical chat rooms. The actual "gaming" takes place in the areas where six persons are allowed, therefore reiterating my point.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 02:30 PM

Ranger wasn't nerfed in ffxi, that made using ranger more tacttile and less brainless like with Black Mage. Ranger could just spam arrows willy-nilly, when in actuality all they did was give all the range weapons sweat-spots for them to be effective in.

Long Bows have to be used far away, crossbows have to be used from a moderate distance, and guns have to be used from a closer distance than crossbow. Thats another issue that has to be addressed when their is being able to discern between a tweak and a nerf. ffxi had very few kids playing so their were little nerf complaints other than the Blackmage nerf (melee bitches need to quit hating off mages).

watashiwa

Sep 27, 2006, 02:33 PM

I don't understand why people like to compare PSU to games like WoW, FFXI, or EQ... they're not even similar at all. (Besides the fact that you create a character and level up with it...) Gameplay is totally different.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 02:36 PM

On 2006-09-27 12:27, Valkayree wrote:

On 2006-09-27 11:50, krika wrote:
You just cant compare WOW vs PSU , wow is a mmorpg , Psu just a mmo like Guild wars.

I'm really sick and tired on big mmorpgs like wow right now so PSU win.

And yes this is a pointless topic.

[ This Message was edited by: krika on 2006-09-27 11:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: krika on 2006-09-27 11:52 ]

Haha, you seem to be forgetting something. This is an online role playing game. Not a massively multiplayer online role playing game. You can only take 6 people into a room. I don't know what planet you are from, but here on Earth, "6" is not a massive number. Lobbies do not count, they are basically graphical chat rooms. The actual "gaming" takes place in the areas where six persons are allowed, therefore reiterating my point.

Word. The only reaosn why the lobbies can even hold the amoutn of people it does is because of all the functions that are available when on the planet or REMOVED their for lowering their size to allow more peeps within an instance. while MMOs have to handle upwards to 50 peeps that form allaiances and have all these character models, equipment, to handle then theirs the statements and functions that each character has that the game has to handle then the graphical effects.

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 02:38 PM

I actually created an account just to post this. I've been a long time reader but the thought of seeing a topic like this on the PSO-W boards never crossed my mind.

To put it bluntly, I hate WoW. I hate it but I still play it, not because I am addicted to the game itself, but because its the best of the genre currently out. I've camped MMORPG news sites for about an year looking for something better, and was considering age of conan until I saw a note on http://www.mmorpg.com about PSU being released Q3 2006.

Being a fan of the PSO series since the first version on Dreamcast, it wasn't too long until I found myself reading those boards again, the last time being a few years ago when I still played Episode 1&2 on GC. I went as far as buying a wireless gamepad for PC to play PSU when it launches in NA.

Back on topic, I agree it is a comparison between apples and oranges. EQ-clone MMORPGs like WoW were designed with the sole purpose of making you grind repetitive content to waste your time, and thus, play more months.

Everything in WoW, from transports between towns to killing monsters, takes time. Too much time. Transportation is the biggest time sink of all, I've done quests who required me to go from winterspring to silithus more than a couple times. For those that do not know what I'm talking about, just take my word for it when I say that you take anywhere between 15 to 40 minutes to reach an end-game zone from a capital city via transportation (aka doing nothing but watching a pretty bird carry you on his back across the world for the whole duration), depending on destination of choice and the capital city you are in. And the instances? Oh, the instances. Every time I step inside one of them, I'm expecting to be there for at least 2 more hours (4 if it is an raid instance). By the info I gathered here, I could've run a mission 8 to 16 times in 4 hours in PSU, and I bet I would've had more fun too.

In PSO, a teleporter takes you to the mission area of choice. Simple, FAST, efficient. Not a cheesy, time-consuming tactic to waste your gameplay time. I'm expecting PSU will be the same, and I really hope so.

The main difference between WoW and PSO is, if you want to play just 1 hour before going to school, you are going to spend 30 minutes in WoW getting to your destination and 30 minutes playing, whereas in PSO you'd spend all your time playing.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 02:41 PM

On 2006-09-27 12:33, watashiwa wrote:
I don't understand why people like to compare PSU to games like WoW, FFXI, or EQ... they're not even similar at all. (Besides the fact that you create a character and level up with it...) Gameplay is totally different.

Isn't it obvious? its because they ahve prolly ONLY played 1 of those other MMOs. people want to know what other games of the same type has to offer since their are tons of multiplater online games out their. The issue is which one has some characteristics that appeal to them more and why should someone play this online game over this other online of the same type. Thats why I have this issue with people calling PSU and MMO because it confuses people who do not know what makes an MMO and MMO. IF your very first mmo was ffxi or wow then your gonan think that all games that are labeled MMOs are gonna have alot of the same aspects with associated with an MMO. So what do you think people who are used to doing 40 player raids are gonna feel when they realize they can ONLY PLAY WITH SIX PEOPLE? People need to take this into consideration and stop trying to spread their diluted and skewed perceptions on impressionable players who don't know any better.

Natrokos

Sep 27, 2006, 02:41 PM

They are similiar in the sense that you create a custom character, choose a class, and play in a small group of people vanquishing monsters....There are distinct similarities.....Yes the attack system and lobby system is very different then a classic mmo but we've already discussed that..... and there's no raids or pvp. The reason they are compared is because it's basically the same community that plays these games....If you want proof look at how many people are emmigrating from ffxi....This topic does have merit whether it's being acknowledged or not.

[ This Message was edited by: Natrokos on 2006-09-27 12:43 ]

krika

Sep 27, 2006, 02:43 PM

-nevermind

[ This Message was edited by: krika on 2006-09-27 12:44 ]

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 02:47 PM

I'm kinda lazy to browse all the posts for the right quote, but I also have the opinion that a game where you can only play with 6 people at most at the same time can't be labelled 'massive'.

Just because you have a 'lobby' area with a thousand players does not make it massive. Its like calling all RTS games such as starcraft and C&C MMOs, or heck, even Diablo an MMO.

watashiwa

Sep 27, 2006, 02:50 PM

PSU isn't even an MMO. It's an online RPG, yeah, but not massively multiplayer at all. Comparing it to WoW, it's not even the same type of game. =

I remember when PSO was compared to Diablo 2 back in the day, and I dunno, I'd still be quicker to call PSU more similar to Diablo 2 than WoW... (Although PSU is not Diablo 2 at all... haha.. but you know.. you got your lobby system and then you go out and fight with your preselected buddies.. or host an open game..)

In WoW, you can group with a small OR a large group of people.. it's entirely up to you... WoW's world still keeps going when you log out as well, unlike PSU. (My Room doesn't count as a World that keeps going, IMHO..)

If you're going to compare PSU to any online game out right now, the closest thing would be Guild Wars. It's basically just about the same style of game.. although Guild Wars is more about PVP and such.. Guild Wars has it's own lobby system, party assembly functions, in-game chat and so on.. and is pretty much just an online RPG (which also has a part that heavily focuses on PVP)

Guild Wars game set up is similar to PSU but the play style is totally different as well.

PSU has something original going for it.. the only thing that comes close would be Monster Hunter and the previous game, Phantasy Star Online.

There isn't any other company that makes games like PSO and PSU that I know of... that feature the play style seen in these games...

Just like it was said.. it's really off putting to even compare WoW to this game.. they can't be compared. = (At least not appropriately)

zofia

Sep 27, 2006, 02:51 PM

On 2006-09-27 10:54, foamcup wrote:
Sure we have to kill monsters over and over again, but on this game, it's fun! You don't just pick a spell/ability/whatever and just click click click on the enemy with your mouse. If you're a HU for instance, you have to get in there and swing that sword with some skill, then dodge the enemy counterattack. Another thing I like is that the monsters don't just walk in a straight line and swing at you, they actually have moves! They'll swing, then back off, or charge at you to knock you over, then target someone else.

Probably the least 'high brow' response to this thread (if that makes sense, not sure how to say it) but the most on-point.

PSU is PSU. Its (from what I can tell) quite similar to PSO, with a lot more options. And what makes this a GREAT thing is PSO is an online action rpg, not a mmorpg (thank the Lords of Kobol!).

Like foamcup said, all current mmorpg's end up boiling down to click click click. They are, in the end, turn-based combat tactic sims based on timers (timed abilities, auto-attack, etc.). PSO and PSU are about action rpg'ing, in real time, where exact position, moment to moment, always matters. That one simple difference (forget all the 'depth' or other arguments) is what separates PSO/PSU from EQ/WoW/LII/other mmorpg's.

In PSO and PSU you live and play 'in the moment.'

In mmorpg's you apply tactics across time.

That's not to say either system is 'better' (overall). For me, its simple. I've spent hundreds of hours wanting to like mmorpg's. I tend to love their worlds and the possibilities they seem to contain. But they always boil down (combat-wise) to playing the 'timer game'; gambling that your timer-dependent skills will prevail against the monster's timer-dependent skills (or that your group's/raid's timer skill will prevail).

In PSU what you do in each and every moment ~ where you step, where you face, the speed of your weapon/tech/trap ~ actually matters. Not over the course of a 30 second battle - in that EXACT moment.

That, to me, is the core difference, and the reason I still love PSO after five+ years and why I think I will love PSU even more.

[ This Message was edited by: zofia on 2006-09-27 12:52 ]

Shrevn

Sep 27, 2006, 02:53 PM

On 2006-09-27 12:41, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-09-27 12:33, watashiwa wrote:
I don't understand why people like to compare PSU to games like WoW, FFXI, or EQ... they're not even similar at all. (Besides the fact that you create a character and level up with it...) Gameplay is totally different.

Isn't it obvious? its because they ahve prolly ONLY played 1 of those other MMOs. people want to know what other games of the same type has to offer since their are tons of multiplater online games out their. The issue is which one has some characteristics that appeal to them more and why should someone play this online game over this other online of the same type. Thats why I have this issue with people calling PSU and MMO because it confuses people who do not know what makes an MMO and MMO. IF your very first mmo was ffxi or wow then your gonan think that all games that are labeled MMOs are gonna have alot of the same aspects with associated with an MMO. So what do you think people who are used to doing 40 player raids are gonna feel when they realize they can ONLY PLAY WITH SIX PEOPLE? People need to take this into consideration and stop trying to spread their diluted and skewed perceptions on impressionable players who don't know any better.

Let me start off by congratulating you on being one of the few people that get this topic. Look im not trying to say the games are alike at all... I know they're not. I played PSO for DC,Gamecube,Xbox I know what it had to offer. Ived also Played FFXI, Guild Wars, Ragnarok, and of course WoW. They all have their ups and downs. But since out of all of the games i played I like wow the best. I ask if PSU will have some of the things i love about WoW. If it doesnt? fine im still going to give it a shot. This isnt meant to diss any PSU fanboys or try to say WoW its better. They're both great games (going to say PSU is since well i hope it is)
And yes People will ask and compare games to one and another if there are things from a previous game they played they liked... its just natural

kassy

Sep 27, 2006, 02:55 PM

Been discussed a million times, they're two very different games, and this is a Phantasy star forum, full of people who either love PS games and/or have never played WoW, think that wraps it up.

How do you guys think this game will stack up against WoW?

Stack up? if you mean will it reach WoW levels of success, I don't think so

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 03:01 PM

On 2006-09-27 12:53, Shrevn wrote:

On 2006-09-27 12:41, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-09-27 12:33, watashiwa wrote:
I don't understand why people like to compare PSU to games like WoW, FFXI, or EQ... they're not even similar at all. (Besides the fact that you create a character and level up with it...) Gameplay is totally different.

Isn't it obvious? its because they ahve prolly ONLY played 1 of those other MMOs. people want to know what other games of the same type has to offer since their are tons of multiplater online games out their. The issue is which one has some characteristics that appeal to them more and why should someone play this online game over this other online of the same type. Thats why I have this issue with people calling PSU and MMO because it confuses people who do not know what makes an MMO and MMO. IF your very first mmo was ffxi or wow then your gonan think that all games that are labeled MMOs are gonna have alot of the same aspects with associated with an MMO. So what do you think people who are used to doing 40 player raids are gonna feel when they realize they can ONLY PLAY WITH SIX PEOPLE? People need to take this into consideration and stop trying to spread their diluted and skewed perceptions on impressionable players who don't know any better.

Let me start off by congratulating you on being one of the few people that get this topic. Look im not trying to say the games are alike at all... I know they're not. I played PSO for DC,Gamecube,Xbox I know what it had to offer. Ived also Played FFXI, Guild Wars, Ragnarok, and of course WoW. They all have their ups and downs. But since out of all of the games i played I like wow the best. I ask if PSU will have some of the things i love about WoW. If it doesnt? fine im still going to give it a shot. This isnt meant to diss any PSU fanboys or try to say WoW its better. They're both great games (going to say PSU is since well i hope it is)
And yes People will ask and compare games to one and another if there are things from a previous game they played they liked... its just natural

Exactly. Cause you know what people have to do before they cna even get their game into production and funded? they have to write a Publisher Proposal document (PPD) to show to a publisher. and ONE of the main points of the PPD is to COMPARE it to other SUCCESFUL games of the same genre and also state what the game offers that the other don't. Its sorta like a resume for game concepts, it has to have these appealing aspects of it in order to convince the publisher to invest in its production. Comparing and Contrasting is very improtant.

[ This Message was edited by: Blackwaltz-R on 2006-09-27 13:02 ]

zofia

Sep 27, 2006, 03:05 PM

On 2006-09-27 13:00, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Exactly. Cause you know what people have to do before they cna even get their game into production and funded? they have to write a Publisher Proposal document (PPD) to show to a publisher. and ONE of the main points of the PPD is to COMPARE it to other SUCCESFUL games of the same genre and also state what the game offers that the other don't. Its sorta like a resume for game concepts, it has to have these appealing aspects of it in order to convince the publisher to invest in its production. Comparing and Contrasting is very improtant.

That's actually true of every single consumer product produced by a company not operated out of someone's garage! =p So, yes, I agree with what you said.

zofia

Sep 27, 2006, 03:07 PM

A simpler way for me to post to this topic is this:

PSO's system (which PSU is a more advanced version of) is fun to me.

Mmorpg's are not as fun for me.

They are not the same ~ and yes I played to level 60 in WoW; obviously didn't 'hate' it, just didn't love it as much as PSO.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 03:10 PM

On 2006-09-27 13:01, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-09-27 12:53, Shrevn wrote:

On 2006-09-27 12:41, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-09-27 12:33, watashiwa wrote:
I don't understand why people like to compare PSU to games like WoW, FFXI, or EQ... they're not even similar at all. (Besides the fact that you create a character and level up with it...) Gameplay is totally different.

Isn't it obvious? its because they ahve prolly ONLY played 1 of those other MMOs. people want to know what other games of the same type has to offer since their are tons of multiplater online games out their. The issue is which one has some characteristics that appeal to them more and why should someone play this online game over this other online of the same type. Thats why I have this issue with people calling PSU and MMO because it confuses people who do not know what makes an MMO and MMO. IF your very first mmo was ffxi or wow then your gonan think that all games that are labeled MMOs are gonna have alot of the same aspects with associated with an MMO. So what do you think people who are used to doing 40 player raids are gonna feel when they realize they can ONLY PLAY WITH SIX PEOPLE? People need to take this into consideration and stop trying to spread their diluted and skewed perceptions on impressionable players who don't know any better.

Let me start off by congratulating you on being one of the few people that get this topic. Look im not trying to say the games are alike at all... I know they're not. I played PSO for DC,Gamecube,Xbox I know what it had to offer. Ived also Played FFXI, Guild Wars, Ragnarok, and of course WoW. They all have their ups and downs. But since out of all of the games i played I like wow the best. I ask if PSU will have some of the things i love about WoW. If it doesnt? fine im still going to give it a shot. This isnt meant to diss any PSU fanboys or try to say WoW its better. They're both great games (going to say PSU is since well i hope it is)
And yes People will ask and compare games to one and another if there are things from a previous game they played they liked... its just natural

Exactly. Cause you know what people have to do before they cna even get their game into production and funded? they have to write a Publisher Proposal document (PPD) to show to a publisher. and ONE of the main points of the PPD is to COMPARE it to other SUCCESFUL games of the same genre and also state what the game offers that the other don't. Its sorta like a resume for game concepts, it has to have these appealing aspects of it in order to convince the publisher to invest in its production. Comparing and Contrasting is very improtant.

[ This Message was edited by: Blackwaltz-R on 2006-09-27 13:02 ]

I know, I was just elaborating a little more since I should have brought it up earlier when I mentioned I was an aspring game designer.

An aspiring Game Design & Developement Major of 2 and a half years to be precise. To further show how prudent my stataments are on this subject over some diluted forum-goer.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 03:15 PM

On 2006-09-27 13:07, zofia wrote:
A simpler way for me to post to this topic is this:

PSO's system (which PSU is a more advanced version of) is fun to me.

Mmorpg's are not as fun for me.

They are not the same ~ and yes I played to level 60 in WoW; obviously didn't 'hate' it, just didn't love it as much as PSO.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Yeah, For some reason some peeps think people are quting MMos in order to migrate to a NEW MMO. When in actuality people coming to PSU are looking for a NON-MMO, if PSU wer gonna be an MMO people wouldn't be so readily willing to quit their current MMOs since they can only expect more of the same in a different format. while PSU basiclly promises to be scaled down compared to MMOs which is its main appeal. If I were lookign for a new MMO that last people I would be looking to would be SOnic Team to deliver lol I'd have stayed on ffxi.

zofia

Sep 27, 2006, 03:37 PM

No problem, Blackwaltz-R. You don't really need to explain your cred to me, but its cool you did ~ good luck with your game design aspirations!

[ This Message was edited by: zofia on 2006-09-27 13:41 ]

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 03:53 PM

On 2006-09-27 13:37, zofia wrote:
No problem, Blackwaltz-R. You don't really need to explain your cred to me, but its cool you did ~ good luck with your game design aspirations!

[ This Message was edited by: zofia on 2006-09-27 13:41 ]

Thanks, I wanted to avoid bringing it up so that I didn't come off more pretentious than I intended lol

Phaze37

Sep 27, 2006, 03:54 PM

I hate to be the one who says this, but imo everyone who says that PSU can't be compared to WoW are just plain wrong. Yes, they are very, very different games, but that doesn't mean that we can't compare them to each other. I'll compare Virtua Fighter to Final Fantasy if I want to!

I see some debate in this thread over whether PSU should be considered an MMORPG or not. I had the same debate with members of my team on PSOBB a few nights ago. They said that it's an MMORPG, but I argued that it's not "massive" because during actual gameplay (combat) you're restricted to 6 players. I call PSO and PSU Online Action RPGs. However, they made a good point by saying that they consider PSO and PSU massively multiplayer because you can stay in touch with anyone outside of your party through simple mail, potentially connecting you to a massive number of players. They pointed out that most game magazines and websites will refer to it as a MMORPG but imo that's because the magazines don't want to break it down into subgenres and confuse people. Whether you call it an MMORPG or OARPG or MORPG or ORPG, there are no "official" genres so it's up to the individual to give it the genre label that they think is most fitting, and there is no point in arguing over what label is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong answer, only opinions.

It looks like previous posters have answered most of Shrevn's questions, except for mounts. PSU does have mounts and vehicles, however you do not buy them and you do not own them. There is no world map to travel across like in an MMORPG, so owning a vehicle would be quite pointless. Instead, certain missions will give you a vehicle to ride, and you get to use it for that mission.

EQ-clone MMORPGs like WoW were designed with the sole purpose of making you grind repetitive content to waste your time, and thus, play more months.

Everything in WoW, from transports between towns to killing monsters, takes time. Too much time. Transportation is the biggest time sink of all, I've done quests who required me to go from winterspring to silithus more than a couple times. For those that do not know what I'm talking about, just take my word for it when I say that you take anywhere between 15 to 40 minutes to reach an end-game zone from a capital city via transportation (aka doing nothing but watching a pretty bird carry you on his back across the world for the whole duration), depending on destination of choice and the capital city you are in. And the instances? Oh, the instances. Every time I step inside one of them, I'm expecting to be there for at least 2 more hours (4 if it is an raid instance). By the info I gathered here, I could've run a mission 8 to 16 times in 4 hours in PSU, and I bet I would've had more fun too.

In PSO, a teleporter takes you to the mission area of choice. Simple, FAST, efficient. Not a cheesy, time-consuming tactic to waste your gameplay time. I'm expecting PSU will be the same, and I really hope so.

The main difference between WoW and PSO is, if you want to play just 1 hour before going to school, you are going to spend 30 minutes in WoW getting to your destination and 30 minutes playing, whereas in PSO you'd spend all your time playing.

I agree with you completely Pinha. I started WoW having no idea what I was getting into, and I quit after only getting to level 23 because I could clearly see that those timesinks are there for the sole purpose of taking my time and money. I have responsibilities, so I can't sit at a computer playing games for 2 to 4 hours at a time. I simply don't have the time to play games with timesinks. PSO is the only online RPG that I know of where you can play for only half-an-hour and actually get in a good game with a full party and earn some exp. That is why I've stuck with PSO all these years. PSU will have no timesinks as well, thankfully. I'll take a 5 second loading screen over a 5 minute griffon ride any day.

Zolpner

Sep 27, 2006, 04:12 PM

No contest: Both.
They're too different, some people will like one over the other, others neither, others both. I personally have both PSU US and Burning Crusade Preordered.
Love both games for their different character development, customization, and all the gameplay. I'm sure there will be groups in PSU that suck as bad as WoW pug UD Stratholme too. >_>
Also, Kalimdor gryphon rides take more like 20 minutes~ xO

They're just different games.~ FFVII vs. Neverwinter Nights...

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 04:14 PM

The worst offenders are Korean MMOs which are entirely designed to be time-sinks with little or no substance. I got accepted into the 4th phase of the Archlord beta since from the concept art it looked as though it would have be similair to GW but it turned out to be more of the same KMMO crap with an added RMT function to purchase items with credit that boost your performance depending on which version you chose to buy. Codemasters keeps bringing this trash over expecting people to feed into these hardcore time-sinks.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 04:17 PM

On 2006-09-27 14:12, Zolpner wrote:
No contest: Both.
They're too different, some people will like one over the other, others neither, others both. I personally have both PSU US and Burning Crusade Preordered.
Love both games for their different character development, customization, and all the gameplay. I'm sure there will be groups in PSU that suck as bad as WoW pug UD Stratholme too. >_>
Also, Kalimdor gryphon rides take more like 20 minutes~ xO

They're just different games.~ FFVII vs. Neverwinter Nights...

Thats not the point, the point iis to give a comparison of bewteen titles of a similair game type. People who have played WoW would WANT to knopw what to expect from people who are familiar with the PS franchise, they didnt ask for your "you can't compare them" bull shit. They just want to know what to expect.

Kyuu

Sep 27, 2006, 04:23 PM

On 2006-09-27 13:54, Phaze37 wrote:

I hate to be the one who says this, but imo everyone who says that PSU can't be compared to WoW are just plain wrong. Yes, they are very, very different games, but that doesn't mean that we can't compare them to each other. I'll compare Virtua Fighter to Final Fantasy if I want to!

I see some debate in this thread over whether PSU should be considered an MMORPG or not. I had the same debate with members of my team on PSOBB a few nights ago. They said that it's an MMORPG, but I argued that it's not "massive" because during actual gameplay (combat) you're restricted to 6 players. I call PSO and PSU Online Action RPGs. However, they made a good point by saying that they consider PSO and PSU massively multiplayer because you can stay in touch with anyone outside of your party through simple mail, potentially connecting you to a massive number of players. They pointed out that most game magazines and websites will refer to it as a MMORPG but imo that's because the magazines don't want to break it down into subgenres and confuse people. Whether you call it an MMORPG or OARPG or MORPG or ORPG, there are no "official" genres so it's up to the individual to give it the genre label that they think is most fitting, and there is no point in arguing over what label is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong answer, only opinions.

It looks like previous posters have answered most of Shrevn's questions, except for mounts. PSU does have mounts and vehicles, however you do not buy them and you do not own them. There is no world map to travel across like in an MMORPG, so owning a vehicle would be quite pointless. Instead, certain missions will give you a vehicle to ride, and you get to use it for that mission.

EQ-clone MMORPGs like WoW were designed with the sole purpose of making you grind repetitive content to waste your time, and thus, play more months.

Everything in WoW, from transports between towns to killing monsters, takes time. Too much time. Transportation is the biggest time sink of all, I've done quests who required me to go from winterspring to silithus more than a couple times. For those that do not know what I'm talking about, just take my word for it when I say that you take anywhere between 15 to 40 minutes to reach an end-game zone from a capital city via transportation (aka doing nothing but watching a pretty bird carry you on his back across the world for the whole duration), depending on destination of choice and the capital city you are in. And the instances? Oh, the instances. Every time I step inside one of them, I'm expecting to be there for at least 2 more hours (4 if it is an raid instance). By the info I gathered here, I could've run a mission 8 to 16 times in 4 hours in PSU, and I bet I would've had more fun too.

In PSO, a teleporter takes you to the mission area of choice. Simple, FAST, efficient. Not a cheesy, time-consuming tactic to waste your gameplay time. I'm expecting PSU will be the same, and I really hope so.

The main difference between WoW and PSO is, if you want to play just 1 hour before going to school, you are going to spend 30 minutes in WoW getting to your destination and 30 minutes playing, whereas in PSO you'd spend all your time playing.

I agree with you completely Pinha. I started WoW having no idea what I was getting into, and I quit after only getting to level 23 because I could clearly see that those timesinks are there for the sole purpose of taking my time and money. I have responsibilities, so I can't sit at a computer playing games for 2 to 4 hours at a time. I simply don't have the time to play games with timesinks. PSO is the only online RPG that I know of where you can play for only half-an-hour and actually get in a good game with a full party and earn some exp. That is why I've stuck with PSO all these years. PSU will have no timesinks as well, thankfully. I'll take a 5 second loading screen over a 5 minute griffon ride any day.
Thanks Phaze. Pretty much my thoughts on the whole thing as well. Except, unfortunately, I stuck with WoW for quite a while, long enough to max a charater, get two other characters halfway up, and be in a guild that worked its way up to Molten Core. I left before they started on Blackwing Lair.

In any case, my apologies for helping to incite another pointless genre debate.

Valkayree

Sep 27, 2006, 04:33 PM

On 2006-09-27 12:30, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Ranger wasn't nerfed in ffxi, that made using ranger more tacttile and less brainless like with Black Mage. Ranger could just spam arrows willy-nilly, when in actuality all they did was give all the range weapons sweat-spots for them to be effective in.

Long Bows have to be used far away, crossbows have to be used from a moderate distance, and guns have to be used from a closer distance than crossbow. Thats another issue that has to be addressed when their is being able to discern between a tweak and a nerf. ffxi had very few kids playing so their were little nerf complaints other than the Blackmage nerf (melee bitches need to quit hating off mages).

Yeah I agree, you are right abot the ranger, just threw that one in to back up my opinion, but evidently it doesn't completely support what I was trying to say. And I have seen some excellent black mages, and some REALLY bad ones. It's very easy to abuse the black mage's powers. AoE in a crowded camp spot, spamming spells and causing the mob to move ruining hate control. I played a blue mage to 54, and took my thief and red mage to 30, played almost every other job to 15 (except pup and cor, never got those). I stopped playing the game in parties completely after getting my thief to Khazam and realizing that 90% of the people I partied with were idiots when it came to setting up for sneak attack/ trick attack. As a blue I don't care, but as a thief, bad first vokers and bad black mages have a tendency to upset me the most for obvious reasons, however, there have been instances where I have congratulated the black mage for his awesomeness (sleep on aggro, no AoE, infrequent yet powerful spells at the right times when hate is strong on someone else(after a SATA) so as to not draw hate, and of course for the the Warp ^_^ But I agree with you guys, I think it is a question of time sink. An mmo is simply a time sink. You spend 80% of your time traveling or waiting on a party. Only twenty percent of the time you actually get something accomplished, and then if you die with no re-raise or mage handy, well there goes your afternoon. PSU, PSO not that way. I've always liked being able to spend my time actually bettering my character, rather than waiting for someone else to help and then travelling somewhere to better my character. The less people I have to group up with, the better, but to group up with people is a definite plus. It's just I don't want to have to play in the same universe as Billy Chong and his horde of RMT bots set up near the goobues and notorious monsters in Oztroja and Giddeous. PSU seems like it just saves me time in general. I have a job, and I don't have all day to play, so PSO and PSU just work better for me.

Weak

Sep 27, 2006, 04:37 PM

What I was going to say has already been said.

Having played WoW for quite a while(I've got a couple 60s and raid pretty often), I'm looking forward to PSU for something less tedious and a lot more fun. There's no timesink(farming especially) and annoyance and competition and (at times) boredom. I loved PSO for these reasons and I think I will love PSU as well. In PSO, I was never sitting in a lobby like, "Hm, I've got nothing to do".

I'm often sitting in Orgrimmar thinking, "Uhm... Well, raids don't start for about 6 hours... I could farm.. That's boring. I could PvP.. Well I'm a druid, that's boring and annoying... Uh... *exit game*"

I remember that I literally would play PSO until my eyes closed from exhaustion, because I didn't feel like stopping even in the wee hours of the morning.

[ This Message was edited by: Weak on 2006-09-27 14:44 ]

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 04:50 PM

I managed to build 3 60s in 3 different servers and join two AQ 40 guilds.

The instances and enemies are way too 'static'. They are always in the same places and behave the same way. At least in PSO missions the map would shuffle around a bit, god I missed that feature in WoW. The attack animations are also plain and simple, the game looks at least 5 years old when I see what ST did with PSU combat system. It really does.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 04:53 PM

Comparison:

WoW = Time-sink

PSU = Pick-up-and-play

Hmmm, looks like I managed to make a comparison based on what makes these titles different.. thats strange.

Zolpner

Sep 27, 2006, 04:59 PM

On 2006-09-27 14:17, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-09-27 14:12, Zolpner wrote:
No contest: Both.
They're too different, some people will like one over the other, others neither, others both. I personally have both PSU US and Burning Crusade Preordered.
Love both games for their different character development, customization, and all the gameplay. I'm sure there will be groups in PSU that suck as bad as WoW pug UD Stratholme too. >_>
Also, Kalimdor gryphon rides take more like 20 minutes~ xO

They're just different games.~ FFVII vs. Neverwinter Nights...

Thats not the point, the point iis to give a comparison of bewteen titles of a similair game type. People who have played WoW would WANT to knopw what to expect from people who are familiar with the PS franchise, they didnt ask for your "you can't compare them" bull shit. They just want to know what to expect.

Nor did I ask you to flame me. :]

My point still stands in the same way people have mentioned in that you can't directly compare them.
WoW customization: Equipment
PSU customization: far more Char creation

WoW gameplay: Heavy solo + 5 man instances till level 60, then Raids. WoW also having the battleground PVP system, having a nice max of 30 people of each faction bashing on each other. Along with world PVP, kill-server-possible amound of people bashing on each other.
PSU gameplay: Close groups, with solo. Random extras to do, more of which will probably released later.

WoW is a more competitive game than PSU, factions directly against oneanoter and whatnot. You tend to spend, at your guilds current equipment level matching the raid, a good 6 hours in a raid instance. Gear can take months to get, and this is really how you get the better gear. Though you can do it a more 'solo' way and get the pvp gear.
PSU will be quieter groups, and you'll be able to solo to get your stuff more.

Of course alot of the extra stuff that will be available in PSU online is still yet to come, they could try do somethings similar to WoW, but the game styles are really to different for most of it to be interchangable. So PSU is still, in the end PSU, and has lots of mystery with fun new shiny stuff as ST hasn't released it yet, and WoW is still WoW.

They aren't a similar game type, only the RPG factor is.

Happeh? I still am. I'll drown happy in both onlineRPG styles at once.

Blackwaltz-R

Sep 27, 2006, 05:05 PM

On 2006-09-27 14:59, Zolpner wrote:

On 2006-09-27 14:17, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-09-27 14:12, Zolpner wrote:
No contest: Both.
They're too different, some people will like one over the other, others neither, others both. I personally have both PSU US and Burning Crusade Preordered.
Love both games for their different character development, customization, and all the gameplay. I'm sure there will be groups in PSU that suck as bad as WoW pug UD Stratholme too. >_>
Also, Kalimdor gryphon rides take more like 20 minutes~ xO

They're just different games.~ FFVII vs. Neverwinter Nights...

Thats not the point, the point iis to give a comparison of bewteen titles of a similair game type. People who have played WoW would WANT to knopw what to expect from people who are familiar with the PS franchise, they didnt ask for your "you can't compare them" bull shit. They just want to know what to expect.

Nor did I ask you to flame me. :]

My point still stands in the same way people have mentioned in that you can't directly compare them.
WoW customization: Equipment
PSU customization: far more Char creation

WoW gameplay: Heavy solo + 5 man instances till level 60, then Raids. WoW also having the battleground PVP system, having a nice max of 30 people of each faction bashing on each other. Along with world PVP, kill-server-possible amound of people bashing on each other.
PSU gameplay: Close groups, with solo. Random extras to do, more of which will probably released later.

WoW is a more competitive game than PSU, factions directly against oneanoter and whatnot. You tend to spend, at your guilds current equipment level matching the raid, a good 6 hours in a raid instance. Gear can take months to get, and this is really how you get the better gear. Though you can do it a more 'solo' way and get the pvp gear.
PSU will be quieter groups, and you'll be able to solo to get your stuff more.

Of course alot of the extra stuff that will be available in PSU online is still yet to come, they could try do somethings similar to WoW, but the game styles are really to different for most of it to be interchangable. So PSU is still, in the end PSU, and has lots of mystery with fun new shiny stuff as ST hasn't released it yet, and WoW is still WoW.

They aren't a similar game type, only the RPG factor is.

Happeh? I still am. I'll drown happy in both onlineRPG styles at once.

Sorry for getting hostile, yeah that is basically what the OP was looking for, I used to make the same stataments as you up until I realized that sometimes they posted something the wrong why. It wasn;t until this thread that I realized that people don't always state what they mean to state or ask in the topics of threads they post.

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 05:17 PM

Nor did I ask you to flame me. :]

My point still stands in the same way people have mentioned in that you can't directly compare them.
WoW customization: Equipment
PSU customization: far more Char creation

I can't speak for PSU but PSO character customization was heavily depedant on itens as well (mags and materials). A good example of MMO where stat customization is not heavily depedant on itens is Ragnarok Online.

WoW gameplay: Heavy solo + 5 man instances till level 60, then Raids. WoW also having the battleground PVP system, having a nice max of 30 people of each faction bashing on each other. Along with world PVP, kill-server-possible amound of people bashing on each other.
PSU gameplay: Close groups, with solo. Random extras to do, more of which will probably released later.

Minor correction: Alterac Valley can hold up to 80 players, 40 on each side. Classes that can deal ranged damage are predominant there, melee classes get stomped. Thats what you get when you allow too many players in a PvP enviroment anyway, ranged gets better the more there are of them.

World PvP in WoW is not worth mentioning.

WoW is a more competitive game than PSU, factions directly against oneanoter and whatnot. You tend to spend, at your guilds current equipment level matching the raid, a good 6 hours in a raid instance. Gear can take months to get, and this is really how you get the better gear. Though you can do it a more 'solo' way and get the pvp gear.
PSU will be quieter groups, and you'll be able to solo to get your stuff more.

Which is why I'm leaving wow. Instead of coming up with creative play modes such as challenge mode, they make you visit the same instance for nearly a semester to improve your character. Their maps are not even random, which makes the whole concept worse.

Of course alot of the extra stuff that will be available in PSU online is still yet to come, they could try do somethings similar to WoW, but the game styles are really to different for most of it to be interchangable. So PSU is still, in the end PSU, and has lots of mystery with fun new shiny stuff as ST hasn't released it yet, and WoW is still WoW.

God I hope not. Having quick, action-filled small games is the selling point of the PS series to me. If they change that I might as well go back to playing FPS games.

They aren't a similar game type, only the RPG factor is.

Happeh? I still am. I'll drown happy in both onlineRPG styles at once.

I won't be sticking around for both when PSU comes. I'm only playing because it beats watching television in my free time.

-Break-

Sep 27, 2006, 05:37 PM

WoW blows. I'd rather play a free Ultima Online server and that game came out September 30, 1997, but I digress.
PSU > WoW

Mixfortune

Sep 27, 2006, 05:47 PM

Even WoW's scaling down and not planning any more 40 mans currently, maxing out at 25s for the coming expansion.

Also, anyone else notice how threads like these tend to slip into a completely different discussion on the semantics of what makes X game an MMO or not, when it really is not the question of the topic? The thread is about PSU vs. WoW, whether in the userbase sense or for your own personal opinions of which you'd like to play more or are more interested in. I can see using the MMO path as a point... but not the entire basis of the discussion.

That being said, PSU realistically won't come close to the popularity or player base of the WoW behemoth, but that doesn't mean one or the other is a bad game or an indictation of what is better.

qoxolg

Sep 27, 2006, 05:52 PM

It's easy:

WoW = boring RTS game, PSU = cool realtime fighting

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 06:08 PM

I guess at some point down the road we all forgot to answer the OP. Let me try...

On 2006-09-27 10:02, Shrevn wrote:
How do you guys think this game will stack up against WoW?.. (i know probaby has been asked before) But what i basically want to know (since theres 6 man groups) Will there be any content that would need more people? Like in WoW a 40man raid etc... Epics etc... PvP, Mounts?! lol
Any of these things been announced?

If by "stack up against wow" you mean... beat WoW in popularity... probably not. But then again, I hope it doesn't. Blizzard's representatives went from a helpful attitude to a "we don't need or care about you" attitude sometimes. You see community managers being smartasses or outright ignoring class boards every week.

The Admin in sega's official sites is very helpful from what I could see, treats players in a more respectful manner. I will have to admit that I don't hang out there much, so I could be wrong.

There are no content currently announced or released that increases the party size limit. It is still 6.

There is one kind mount so far, Lungas. But there are also vehicles to use. I don't know if they are implemented in network mode (online) yet, but they are in story/extra (offline) mode.

Item quality is classified by letter, going from C (worst) to A then S (best), not colors and fancy names like 'Epic' or 'Legendary'.

As of now there is no PvP whatsoever on PSU, announced or implemented.

Alexandrious1

Sep 27, 2006, 06:11 PM

Im gonna sum up why I quitted WoW and why I would never PVP again, or even play mmos again, since 9 years of hardcore mmo playing is enough.

I was a Paladin, max lv, MC and BWL equips, this was before the AQ areas whatever they were called I quitted by then. This is why I quit...

Example 1

lv 60 Orc warrior on forum: Hy I like to report that Alexandrious has been using Damage hacking in BGs. I dont understand how a PALADIN can do 3-5k damage on single targets. Here are the screens and logs.

*shows some screens that are obviously edited to not show the Gnomish Deathray Arc I used to pwn him, yes the Gnomish Deathray tends to crit up to 5200 dmg, 5174 was my best, I one shotted a 100 percent health 60 tauren shaman with it.*

Example 2

Lv 60 Forsaken Shadow Priest on forum: Omg ban this paladin plox! I know for sure hes using damage hacks and god mode >< he resists almost all my spells and two-three shots me =( *shows pics of me doing 1400-1900 combined dmg criticals, some hits higher, and shows me resisting alot of his spells, no duh I can do all this I have both Judgement and the other paladin armor sets along with Sulfuras Hand of Ragnaros, and I usually put on shadow aura and shadow resist gear when im bout to kill a shadow priest. -_-*

World of warcraft, competative? Yea sure, full of b.nets, kiddies and whiners? Hell yea. My guild was the only guild able to do MC and BWL for a long time, thus we all had stuff no one on either side could EVER get, yet ironically me and 4 others in the guild were the only ones who regularly pvp, me pvping the most out of all of em thus I had the highest skill of em all. Was the strongest most feared paladin on the server, but with it came a heavy price.

The price? The noobs from the horde side, even from the alliance side, kept complaining to my guild leaders and members about my "dirty, unfair" tactics and my "damage hacks" eventually I got tired of it, so did my guild, and I decided to quit the game, so my guild wouldnt suffer from the stupidity anymore.

At the very least I got grandmarshal, but oooh I wont go into how much of a time sink THAT was. lol.

World of warcraft, was not my first mmo, lol nor my last, its a good mmo for beginners, just watch out for the kids and the real users of hacks and glitches, cuz they will ruin it for you. No more pvp for this player. Just good ole, simple, multiplayer online rpg playing for this guy. *patiently waits for PSU*

[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-09-27 16:12 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-09-27 16:13 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-09-27 16:15 ]

Animosity

Sep 27, 2006, 06:55 PM

tanks>mounts. there are rares instead of epic. and pvp will likely be added

Souppy

Sep 27, 2006, 07:13 PM

PSU will NEVER beat WoW in popularity. That's for sure. And I don't think that there is a battle between them in the first place. WoW vs FFXI maybe? but there is no rivalry between WoW and PSU because they are offering 2 different products. WoW and PSU are 2 different games that only have the genre ''MMORPG'' in common.

WoW is a time-consuming MMO because you have to form a party, head to the location where you will fight, etc, etc, etc... On the other hand, you won't feel obligated to play PSU for your Guild/LS/Clan and you can level as fast (or as slow) as you want.

Don't compare oranges with apples! lol

[ This Message was edited by: Souppy on 2006-09-27 17:14 ]

RuinedReBirth

Sep 27, 2006, 07:24 PM

I hate MMORPGs, the only one I ever liked was FFXI. I liked WoW until I decided to change characters then I realized that I'm doing the same damn thing all over again!! I don't like clicking, hitting a few buttons for skills, then watching the character automatically attack. No challenge envolved at all. I like PSU since it's more interactive. A lot more fast paced, and action that keeps my heart pumpin'.

At least PSU can be level based where as in WoW, you don't have a piece of equipment and you suffer in battles. Mainly PVP. What a nightmare.

Damn Rappies!

[ This Message was edited by: RuinedReBirth on 2006-09-27 17:25 ]

Ryogen

Sep 27, 2006, 07:41 PM

They are two different types of Online RPG's. How did you think they would compare to each other? A better comparison is Guild Wars vs Phantasy Star Universe.<_<

Blenjar

Sep 27, 2006, 08:26 PM

haha well I had great experience on both games...PSO kinda is my first online game...

-- Blen

Yachiru

Sep 27, 2006, 08:36 PM

PSU.

Tystys

Sep 27, 2006, 08:38 PM

To tell you the truth, I don't really give a damn. From what I've heard about most of the WoW community, I'm really happy I didn't get into the game. I'm just going to play PSU, and I don't care how popular it is/isn't.

Chaobo99

Sep 27, 2006, 09:14 PM

I think woW dies during war with PSU.They wont have the stuff now, but they'll unlock it..
Time for the daily chaobo!
woW guy: Behold my spear!
PSU guy: Don't laugh! I only have an antique aircraft.
*A giant city on a ship appears*
woW guy: THAT'S ANTIQUE!!???
PSU guy: YES! it was released like 100 years ago, like duh,don't you know history?!..so stop asking questions! *busts out photon launcher and OLGA FLOW SWORD*
*toatlly ahnialates army of woW players holding spears* http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 09:21 PM

Nonono chaobo, wow must live. I don't want to have to play with 80% of the wow playerbase who thinks they know my class better than me and how I should play it.

Shadow_Wing

Sep 27, 2006, 09:31 PM

Pinha, so true >< I hate when people tell you how to play your job/class/ect. when really they've only met you once. Though... I'm kinda guilty of doing that in FFXI when some1 plays Bard in my Linkshell, but everyone that knows me knows I'm an incredible Bard and most people say they should listen to me when I talk about how to play it XD.

phunk

Sep 27, 2006, 09:36 PM

Simple,

PSU = Casual; my type of game, jump on, jump off, have fun.

WoW & FFXI = Time Consuming, your 2nd life, your 2nd job, virtual jogging, number game, endgame = drama, etc...

Choose from that.

[ This Message was edited by: phunk on 2006-09-27 19:37 ]

Pinha

Sep 27, 2006, 09:41 PM

Of course I'd take a well written critic from a veteran any day of the week, ShadowWing, but I was thinking of the trolls without any experience on my class whatsoever, that order me to do the most stupid things because they heard from a friend or guildmate, or even a fansite what my class "can and can't do".

Very frustrating.

SonicTMP

Sep 27, 2006, 10:03 PM

WoW does some thigns better than PSU, PSU does somethings better than WoW. Each has its own time sinks and other methods to keep you playing. Pick the one you like and have fun till you get bored and move on.

Sexy_Raine

Sep 27, 2006, 10:06 PM

Another one of these topics? I don't feel ike debating. I really don't care about WOW, it's not even worthy of being discussed in this board.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-09-27 20:08 ]

CpwninOBrien

Sep 27, 2006, 10:09 PM

from what i know wowcraft is okay but it seems to slow for my tastes i liek the arcade feel of PSU

Chaobo99

Sep 27, 2006, 10:16 PM

Im not saying woW must die. I was just..well I dont know what I was just doing O_o;

Alisha

Sep 27, 2006, 11:03 PM

i lol when people prpose that wow is the best mmo when its in many ways inferior to ffxi-gasp i have an opionion.
i dont see why games cant be compared.
yes because photon arts are nothing like weapon skills right?
my room has absolutely nothing in common with a mogsafe?
player shops are not like bazzars yes?
PSU's stages are not all like ffxi's assault missions right?
psu boss fights and bcnm,ksnm.and isnm are not at all similar huh?

one of the few things about wow that i thought was cool was travel forms. it would be neat if beasts had something similar.

Cross

Sep 28, 2006, 12:10 AM

On 2006-09-27 21:03, Alisha wrote:
yes because photon arts are nothing like weapon skills right?

They really, really, really aren't.
The similarities end at "weapon attacks with special animations", and that barely scratches the surface of the roles they play in their respective games, from a design perspective and from a player's perspective.

Losodo1976

Sep 28, 2006, 12:18 AM

How will PSU stack up to WoW? LoL, more like the other way around.

PC MMO's? Zzzzzz...

Alisha

Sep 28, 2006, 01:15 AM

On 2006-09-27 22:10, Cross wrote:

On 2006-09-27 21:03, Alisha wrote:
yes because photon arts are nothing like weapon skills right?

They really, really, really aren't.
The similarities end at "weapon attacks with special animations", and that barely scratches the surface of the roles they play in their respective games, from a design perspective and from a player's perspective.

well its best to keep in mind any comparisons i make are having not played psu yet and just going by what i read.

Zarbolord

Sep 28, 2006, 01:17 AM

I most certainly prefer PSU out of the two.

Yoruichi

Sep 28, 2006, 02:26 AM

WoW, no mater what fan boys of either game dispute even if they lean for neither and go for FFXI. Sales and subscriptions don't lie and sega hasn't even gave us a full game yet. This was based on a console game so isn't really marketed towared the huge base of WoW or even FFXI.

Its been posted people have been hitting the current caps, this game isn't that much of a time sink at the moment and seems my guess was right this will be released just like FFXI did in US compared to Japan. They get practicly the open beta we get prepatched game+expansion (aka unlocked zones that werent open at release). I can't complain about anything but the extra wait >.<

Tystys

Sep 28, 2006, 02:42 AM

Yoruichi

Sep 28, 2006, 02:54 AM

Druid, shaman could shape shift to gain speed in WoW...druid being the most effective choice because it was instant and purged all root or snaring effects.

SANEagent

Sep 28, 2006, 03:07 AM

I have to jump in here at some point. I played PSO on DC, and again on Xbox. I have been looking forward to the next version of it for some time. During the wait, I have played an asortment of games including Guild Wars and WoW. Each game is unique, but all can be compared in some fasion (all this has been broken down in this topic, so I will not do so again). It seems I am one of the more hardcore WoW vets in these forums (maxed out a character with all epics and raided through BWL in one night as well as most of AQ40...so MC is like a joke). I enjoy both PSO and WoW. They are different in the sense of timer combat vs. action or real time combat. The player relations are different in that one is limited to an instance setting (PSU) and WoW is wide open where you can see other players run by you doing a completely different quest. In relating my comments to the "Is PSU an MMO" topic, I define PSU as an online RPG, not an MMO. Not becuase of the number of players you can have in a group at one time, but because WoW is all set in one main world. A world where everyone can walk by each other at some random point of the map and instantly decide to ignore or help each other. The game is a massive world where a mass group of players can interact with oneanother at any point of the map at any time; that is how I see MMO's being defined.

Now onto the personal side of things...I have been waiting for PSU for a while now, and cant decide if I should quit WoW or not??? My friends all play it and convinced me to renew my account for this next month....i guess it will help ease the wait for PSU. But the WoW expansion is coming out as well...and the new abilites for my Druid are interesting. So it really all comes down to gameplay and what you want out of a game. I play games for the people more so than the gameplay. I know I will love PSU, but my friends play WoW. So it looks like I will be paying two Monthly fees and spliting the time between the two. I just cant tell if that is a good thing or bad.

Zael

Sep 28, 2006, 04:19 AM

I dislike those RPGs where it takes hours upon hours to even accomplish small things, and those RPGs where you can't solo. I love PSO/PSU because you can just jump in, join a game, and have fun. No waiting for parties, and you don't need a party to actually get something done.

Also like how PSO/PSU is action-style combat. Not turn based or click to attack stuff.

Alisha

Sep 28, 2006, 04:29 AM

it's been said before but...
"soling is like masturbating at an orgy"

RuinedReBirth

Sep 28, 2006, 04:52 AM

Well, at least Sega is a lot more promising than Blizzard is with release dates. Lets take a big example: Starcraft Ghost...wait and wait and wait then suddenly BAM...It's cancelled. Sega delays by week to a month - nothing that hurts too much.

But I think the support that Blizzard offers is great. Sega doesn't dish out a customer service that gives them a reputation. Lets see what happens with a new game that is actually being taken seriously.

Though I think WoW is trash, I don't think PSU fan base and the people playing it will measure up to WoW. WoW destroyed EQ's subscription amount record quickly, and I don't think there will be another game that will do that. Glad 60% of the world likes to play in the trash. =P

Zael

Sep 28, 2006, 07:18 AM

I don't like WoW because its a clicking game.

Tahldon

Sep 28, 2006, 07:57 AM

On 2006-09-28 05:18, Zael wrote:
I don't like WoW because its a clicking game.

I haven't played Wow at all, but I did play RagnarokOnline. All this time I've been actually trying to get something that resembles PSO or something to take it's place. Click click click, drives me nuts and gives people carpeltunnel.

I'm totally with Zael on this one. *Nod nod* http://www.angelfire.com/droid/boltz/meg14.bmp

Axel3792

Sep 28, 2006, 08:04 AM

On 2006-09-27 10:09, RoninJoku wrote:
Keep Wow trash outta here! I didn't quit Wow so I could have 40 man raids in my dear PSU...

EXACTLY

I hate the fact that you have to go on a bunch of pointless raids so that every couple weeks or so you can get an Epic...

Valkayree

Sep 28, 2006, 09:39 AM

On 2006-09-27 21:03, Alisha wrote:
i lol when people prpose that wow is the best mmo when its in many ways inferior to ffxi-gasp i have an opionion.
i dont see why games cant be compared.
yes because photon arts are nothing like weapon skills right?
my room has absolutely nothing in common with a mogsafe?
player shops are not like bazzars yes?
PSU's stages are not all like ffxi's assault missions right?
psu boss fights and bcnm,ksnm.and isnm are not at all similar huh?

one of the few things about wow that i thought was cool was travel forms. it would be neat if beasts had something similar.

We could compare them Alisha, PSU could be compared with FFXI, but then all you would see is this:

Photon Arts > Weapon Skills
Why? You get more photon arts, they look cooler, and you can customize them, unlike the same dull skills that stay with you forever.

My Room > Mogsafe
Why? Infinite storage space in my room, PM is much more effective a butler than the mog, and its amazing, people can enter your room!

Player Shops > Bazaars
Why? No lag from the hundreds of people standing at the counter, no RMTs to generate inflation, and no gil buyers who will pay the high prices.

PSU Missions > FFXI Assault Missions
Why? You don't need Aht Urghan Access. You don't need to be in the mid 50's to run a mission. You don't need to hike 2 hours through hell to get to a staging point. You don't have to put up with snobby greedy vets who refuse to help unless it is for money. You can solo PSU missions with all characters, not just one or two.

PSU Boss Battles > Ksnm, bcnm, isnm
Why? You don't have to spend a week collecting seals to enter. PSU boss battles are action oriented, much better than kiting a frieking lizard for 10 minutes with gravity. Auto-attack = boring. First person aiming and action oriented battles! Fresh and exciting. More excitement in general with PSU at a faster pace (the boss battles are the pinnacle of the mission) while the battle circles are just something else to do to make money when you get fed up with RMTs taking your tree cuttings. FFXI is a time sink, just one big time sink. Spend 4 hours preparing, 1 hour traveling, 30 minutes discussing strategy, all time sink. PSU, you jump right in and run.

Point is, yes we can compare, but why? It just makes FFXI look soooo bad, and I think it has been curbstomped and sent to the hospital already. Dead horse. No reason to add insult to injury...

Valkayree

Sep 28, 2006, 09:41 AM

On 2006-09-28 02:29, Alisha wrote:
it's been said before but...
"soling is like masturbating at an orgy"

Yeah, but in FFXI, 30 to 40% of participants in that orgy have AIDS, chlamydia, gonorreah, or HPV (RMTs and gil buyers). If that doesn't make you wanna solo your chicken...

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 10:59 AM

Item quality is classified by letter, going from C (worst) to A then S (best), not colors and fancy names like 'Epic' or 'Legendary'.
This is actually inaccurate, I believe. Items have a rarity rating ranging from 1 star to 12 (I could be wrong about the max number of stars). The letter ratings are for two things: first, you can choose what letter difficulty rank to play a mission at, with higher ranking having tougher, higher-level enemies (and correspondingly better drops and exp). Second, you are given a ranking at the end of a mission based on the number of enemies killed and how many deaths there were in your party. The higher the ranking, the more meseta and job points you are awarded.

krika

Sep 28, 2006, 11:25 AM

On 2006-09-27 10:09, RoninJoku wrote:
Keep Wow trash outta here! I didn't quit Wow so I could have 40 man raids in my dear PSU...

Word!

sigseven

Sep 28, 2006, 11:59 AM

On 2006-09-28 08:59, Kyuu wrote:

Item quality is classified by letter, going from C (worst) to A then S (best), not colors and fancy names like 'Epic' or 'Legendary'.
This is actually inaccurate, I believe. Items have a rarity rating ranging from 1 star to 12 (I could be wrong about the max number of stars). The letter ratings are for two things: first, you can choose what letter difficulty rank to play a mission at, with higher ranking having tougher, higher-level enemies (and correspondingly better drops and exp). Second, you are given a ranking at the end of a mission based on the number of enemies killed and how many deaths there were in your party. The higher the ranking, the more meseta and job points you are awarded.
Weapons have a letter ranking too :I

It's not strictly the same as rarity though, it's more of a tier to determine if your class can use it, so given that it does usually have a higher quality given a higher letter.

Sphtker

Sep 28, 2006, 12:30 PM

EXACTLY

I hate the fact that you have to go on a bunch of pointless raids so that every couple weeks or so you can get an Epic...

Ok first, I enjoy both PSO and WoW. However what you said means absolutely nothing. In pso you have to do the exact same thing to find rares. like trying to find Handgun guld/milla. have to spend how long just for the chance of it dropping. then unless you are with a party that is helping you find it, you have to beat the person there. in both games there are morons that just "help" and steal the stuff you were going for in the first place.

[ This Message was edited by: Sphtker on 2006-09-28 10:40 ]

anmato145

Sep 28, 2006, 12:39 PM

On 2006-09-28 07:39, Valkayree wrote:

On 2006-09-27 21:03, Alisha wrote:
i lol when people prpose that wow is the best mmo when its in many ways inferior to ffxi-gasp i have an opionion.
i dont see why games cant be compared.
yes because photon arts are nothing like weapon skills right?
my room has absolutely nothing in common with a mogsafe?
player shops are not like bazzars yes?
PSU's stages are not all like ffxi's assault missions right?
psu boss fights and bcnm,ksnm.and isnm are not at all similar huh?

one of the few things about wow that i thought was cool was travel forms. it would be neat if beasts had something similar.

We could compare them Alisha, PSU could be compared with FFXI, but then all you would see is this:

Photon Arts > Weapon Skills
Why? You get more photon arts, they look cooler, and you can customize them, unlike the same dull skills that stay with you forever.

My Room > Mogsafe
Why? Infinite storage space in my room, PM is much more effective a butler than the mog, and its amazing, people can enter your room!

Player Shops > Bazaars
Why? No lag from the hundreds of people standing at the counter, no RMTs to generate inflation, and no gil buyers who will pay the high prices.

PSU Missions > FFXI Assault Missions
Why? You don't need Aht Urghan Access. You don't need to be in the mid 50's to run a mission. You don't need to hike 2 hours through hell to get to a staging point. You don't have to put up with snobby greedy vets who refuse to help unless it is for money. You can solo PSU missions with all characters, not just one or two.

PSU Boss Battles > Ksnm, bcnm, isnm
Why? You don't have to spend a week collecting seals to enter. PSU boss battles are action oriented, much better than kiting a frieking lizard for 10 minutes with gravity. Auto-attack = boring. First person aiming and action oriented battles! Fresh and exciting. More excitement in general with PSU at a faster pace (the boss battles are the pinnacle of the mission) while the battle circles are just something else to do to make money when you get fed up with RMTs taking your tree cuttings. FFXI is a time sink, just one big time sink. Spend 4 hours preparing, 1 hour traveling, 30 minutes discussing strategy, all time sink. PSU, you jump right in and run.

Point is, yes we can compare, but why? It just makes FFXI look soooo bad, and I think it has been curbstomped and sent to the hospital already. Dead horse. No reason to add insult to injury...

Wait a second... infinite space in the PSU "My Room" Ooooo sexeh

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 12:47 PM

On 2006-09-28 09:59, sigseven wrote:

Weapons have a letter ranking too :I

It's not strictly the same as rarity though, it's more of a tier to determine if your class can use it, so given that it does usually have a higher quality given a higher letter.
I know what you're talking about. Your class has to have, for example, A-level proficiency with that type of weapon (sabers, swords, wands, handguns, etc.) to use that particular weapon. But, it's just a prerequisite the same as an ATP, ATA, or TAP prerequisite, not a rating of the items quality.

sigseven

Sep 28, 2006, 12:56 PM

On 2006-09-28 10:47, Kyuu wrote:
I know what you're talking about. Your class has to have, for example, A-level proficiency with that type of weapon (sabers, swords, wands, handguns, etc.) to use that particular weapon. But, it's just a prerequisite the same as an ATP, ATA, or TAP prerequisite, not a rating of the items quality.

I don't think we can say that for certain yet, given how little is known about the itemization formulas that sonic team is using for PSU. I was thinking more about the comparison to how items were in wow. It's true that purples were more rare (at least until endgame :I), but the most important part about the color was that it carried a higher stats budget for a given item level.

At this point, I don't think enough data has been gathered to tell if a higher letter rank on a weapon gives it a higher stats budget for a certain star ranking/stats requirement, but it would seem logical that the harder to attain letter ranks would be more powerful for their given level.

Eauijhkuu

Sep 28, 2006, 01:41 PM

PSU Drop rates > WoW or FFXI?

I might actually have time in my life to be an uber player.
For once.

Eauijhkuu

Sep 28, 2006, 01:45 PM

Point is, yes we can compare, but why? It just makes FFXI look soooo bad, and I think it has been curbstomped and sent to the hospital already. Dead horse. No reason to add insult to injury...

To put FFXI on par with the difficulty of a PSU boss battles is like comparing Duke Ellington to Pablo Picaso.

Of course, generalizations usually suck anyhow.

Sphtker

Sep 28, 2006, 01:54 PM

i am figuring that psu is the same as pso as far as drop rates go. PSO and WoW drop rates are different. PSO: handgun milla = 1/28808 for whittill tallow forest. you can do a mission to get a bunch of the same mob that drops it but the % for each is around .0000347% for it to drop. where as in WoW the drop rate will/might be much better say .03%, but it only drops from one or two mobs. and in some cases you have to do a really long raid in order to get to that mob.
you might get lucky in pso/psu and get this really hard drop on the first drop but more times than not it takes a long time and lots of playing the same thing in order to get it.
so i personally don't think one is better than the other. i just think they are different.

[ This Message was edited by: Sphtker on 2006-09-28 11:58 ]

Scirrocco

Sep 28, 2006, 02:12 PM

Although theres a lot of things i won't be missing from WOW (LF2M, need tank/healer, pst!), PSU really doesn't look like much more then Zerg and kill everything. I don't want to have strategies and teamwork on par with WOW, but it would be nice to have something. PSU boss fights look like everyones doing their own thing, and eventually the boss is DPS'd down. It doesn't really require any teamwork. If you're feeling generous, you'll heal a team mate (if your a force) or rez someone if they die, but thats it.

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 03:05 PM

On 2006-09-28 12:12, Scirrocco wrote:

PSU boss fights look like everyones doing their own thing, and eventually the boss is DPS'd down. It doesn't really require any teamwork. If you're feeling generous, you'll heal a team mate (if your a force) or rez someone if they die, but thats it.
Sounds about the same as WoW boss battles to me. DPS sits there and hits it, healers heal every so often.

Weak

Sep 28, 2006, 03:09 PM

Actually, some of the recent raid instances in the game require quite a bit of coordination and movement by almost all 40 players. It doesn't come down to just hitting the monster and healing people.

Granted, the less difficult raid instances *are* strictly dps to death, but Blizzard seems to be changing their ideas.

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 03:23 PM

I know this. I played quite a bit of WoW myself, including raid instances. However, it all boils down to the same repetitive clicking-the-same-spell-or-skill-over-and-over. Just sometimes different classes have to click a different button.

If those boring-ass raid dungeons really float your boat, then great. Even PSO's combat was always 100 times more interesting to me, though.

SeAm-NiNjA

Sep 28, 2006, 04:49 PM

WoW is the worst game that blizzard has ever made and i am a big blizzard fan

PSU will kick the **** out of WoW

SeAm-NiNjA

Sep 28, 2006, 04:49 PM

WoW is the worst game that blizzard has ever made and i am a big blizzard fan

PSU will kick the **** out of WoW

SonicTMP

Sep 28, 2006, 08:14 PM

On 2006-09-28 13:23, Kyuu wrote:
I know this. I played quite a bit of WoW myself, including raid instances. However, it all boils down to the same repetitive clicking-the-same-spell-or-skill-over-and-over. Just sometimes different classes have to click a different button.

You realize you do the exact same thing in PSU? even more so. Your either spamming your normal attack or your PA. Different classes spam different PA's. Same exact thing as wow or any other MMORPG for that matter. Choose your favorite skill and click/push/tap/spam/molest that button for all it's worth and then some.

watashiwa

Sep 28, 2006, 08:15 PM

On 2006-09-28 18:14, SonicTMP wrote:
You realize you do the exact same thing in PSU?

'sup, baby boy.. you still have nightmares of Santa and Raydric Archers?!

SonicTMP

Sep 28, 2006, 08:20 PM

On 2006-09-28 18:15, watashiwa wrote:

On 2006-09-28 18:14, SonicTMP wrote:
You realize you do the exact same thing in PSU?

'sup, baby boy.. you still have nightmares of Santa and Raydric Archers?!

Ray's yes, Santa I got over with some counseling.

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 09:05 PM

On 2006-09-28 18:14, SonicTMP wrote:

You realize you do the exact same thing in PSU? even more so. Your either spamming your normal attack or your PA. Different classes spam different PA's. Same exact thing as wow or any other MMORPG for that matter. Choose your favorite skill and click/push/tap/spam/molest that button for all it's worth and then some.
Yes, but it's actually fun since there's movement and flashy stuff and explosions and monsters flying every which way 'n stuff. *nods*

Alisha

Sep 28, 2006, 09:26 PM

On 2006-09-28 07:41, Valkayree wrote:

On 2006-09-28 02:29, Alisha wrote:
it's been said before but...
"soling is like masturbating at an orgy"

Yeah, but in FFXI, 30 to 40% of participants in that orgy have AIDS, chlamydia, gonorreah, or HPV (RMTs and gil buyers). If that doesn't make you wanna solo your chicken...

your experience with ffxi must of been dramatically worse than mine to feel that way.

Danger_Girl

Sep 28, 2006, 09:34 PM

On 2006-09-28 02:29, Alisha wrote:
it's been said before but...
"soling is like masturbating at an orgy"

Don't knock masturbation. It's sex with someone I love.

CpwninOBrien

Sep 28, 2006, 09:36 PM

On 2006-09-28 19:34, Danger_Girl wrote:

On 2006-09-28 02:29, Alisha wrote:
it's been said before but...
"soling is like masturbating at an orgy"

Don't knock masturbation. It's sex with someone I love.

wtf lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Cross

Sep 28, 2006, 09:48 PM

On 2006-09-28 07:41, Valkayree wrote:
Yeah, but in FFXI, 30 to 40% of participants in that orgy have AIDS, chlamydia, gonorreah, or HPV (RMTs and gil buyers). If that doesn't make you wanna solo your chicken...

Hah. That's almost word-for-word my exact thoughts. The only difference is that 30-40% is pretty conservative. I'd place the figure at at least double that.

FFXI is the only game where being smart enough to breathe makes you an above-average player.

SonicTMP

Sep 28, 2006, 10:03 PM

On 2006-09-28 19:05, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-09-28 18:14, SonicTMP wrote:

You realize you do the exact same thing in PSU? even more so. Your either spamming your normal attack or your PA. Different classes spam different PA's. Same exact thing as wow or any other MMORPG for that matter. Choose your favorite skill and click/push/tap/spam/molest that button for all it's worth and then some.
Yes, but it's actually fun since there's movement and flashy stuff and explosions and monsters flying every which way 'n stuff. *nods*

Seen it in wow, in coh, swg, pretty much any other mmo I've played. PSU is more action based, not really another mmorpg like game out there that gives you the advantage of avoiding damage by actually dodging and not relying on your armor numbers.

Really, it's a rather simple combat system, simpler than PSO since swing timming was taken out. It can be lots of fun but it's not superior.

Cross

Sep 28, 2006, 10:07 PM

On 2006-09-28 20:03, SonicTMP wrote:
Really, it's a rather simple combat system, simpler than PSO since swing timming was taken out.
This is just some friendly advice but FYI you probably shouldn't be discussing gameplay mechanics if you honestly think that a loose, forgiving, static timing system added any sort of complexity whatsoever

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 10:12 PM

Complex != superior. I've never considered fighting with the controller to be fun, nor learning completely arbitrary and unnatural rule systems.

Some of the best and funnest games are those with the simplest gameplay mechanics. Not to mention, simple gameplay often translates into much more replay value.

SonicTMP

Sep 28, 2006, 10:13 PM

On 2006-09-28 20:07, Cross wrote:

On 2006-09-28 20:03, SonicTMP wrote:
Really, it's a rather simple combat system, simpler than PSO since swing timming was taken out.
This is just some friendly advice but FYI you probably shouldn't be discussing gameplay mechanics if you honestly think that a loose, forgiving, static timing system added any sort of complexity whatsoever

True the combo system in PSO was fairly simple and easy to use but you still had some minor options to choose from. The truth still holds that the combat system in PSU is simpler than PSO.

Complex != superior. I've never considered fighting with the controller to be fun, nor learning completely arbitrary and unnatural rule systems.

Some of the best and funnest games are those with the simplest gameplay mechanics. Not to mention, simple gameplay often translates into much more replay value.

Right so then the complaint abuot clickign a button over and over again in other mmorpg games has what point then?

[ This Message was edited by: SonicTMP on 2006-09-28 20:14 ]

Cross

Sep 28, 2006, 10:32 PM

On 2006-09-28 20:13, SonicTMP wrote:
True the combo system in PSO was fairly simple and easy to use but you still had some minor options to choose from. The truth still holds that the combat system in PSU is simpler than PSO.

No, it really isn't. PSU is faster, has more mobility, has more entities active in fights, and has enemies that range from marginally smarter to noticeably smarter than PSO, which all individually add more to combat than timed swings (and speaking of those, the only depth that timed swings ever added was being able to wait an extra 0.25s or so to disrupt the enemy a little better - something that is still present in PSU). Together, there's really no contest as to which is the more complex, or the more in-depth, combat engine.

PSO may as well have been turn-based with some running around in between, because all it really amounted to was getting into position once, using one of maybe four or five total variations on three different basic combos, and then repeating the process. PSU is more fluid from start to finish; even the standard 3-hit combo has more variation than anything in PSO ever did, based only on how much more mobility comes into play.
That isn't even mentioning that ranged weapons (and for that matter, dual-wielded weapon sets with both ranged and melee capability) have created signifigant new gameplay styles altogether, the fact that status effects can occur naturally, the big improvements to being a Force, and any of a dozen other ways in which PSU is more complex.

The only way that PSU is simpler is in that you (might be) pressing fewer buttons over a given period of time, and there's a lot more to the gameplay than that, unlike PSO.

SonicTMP

Sep 28, 2006, 11:17 PM

So you run around faster than PSO, have more party memebers for rougly the same sort of encounter system and monsters than have an additional attack pattern.

Instead of using a low damage status effect attack you now have it built into high powered 1 button skills, bullets and techs. Elemental damage is still in the game, though instead of using certian techs vs certian monsters you just need the right element. In that respect they removed the added damage to monster type. Instead of carrying several weapons for different monsters types you do so for elements now. Instead of using a one of those few combo variations to make the monster flinch or inflict status you use a PA than can knockdown/back and has a status effect.

As for dual-wielded weapon sets with both ranged and melee, I don't see any normal attacks or PA's taking advantage of that. Your PA's are seperate and if you ant to attack with your ranged you need to hold down the secondary button and then fire. I've seen a 5+ year old FPS game actually let you use both at once or combo them together yet PSU only allows use of one or the other at any given time.

Looking now at the differances and the changes, the combat system for each is most likely about the same in complexity. PSU looks rather simple and is more flashy on the top layer vs PSO though.

kazuma56

Sep 28, 2006, 11:31 PM

well in PSO, at least from my gatherings playing it for all this time, the elements featured on each weapon are menial at best, sure you could do more damage but the thing everyone looked for in a weapon was hit % and that alone, no one would go out searching for a 50% dark charge gungnir or a 100% Native weapon... they just don't add anything over hitting your enemies more times.

PSO complexity was really small, aside from timing your attacks and getting away there is basically nothing to learn that much, you could learn enemy and boss patterns but with a competant force its not needed so much... PSO was a great game for its time but it was more straightforward and less customizable then PSU looks to be.

Kyuu

Sep 28, 2006, 11:56 PM

On 2006-09-28 20:13, SonicTMP wrote:

Right so then the complaint abuot clickign a button over and over again in other mmorpg games has what point then?
Try reading a book while fighting in EQ-clone games like WoW. You'll find it's actually possible to do this. I know because I've done it.

Now try doing the same with PSU. You'll find that, when fighting enemies, you probably need to pay attention a lot more if you want to avoid dying or contribute even marginally to your team's progress.

It's called engagement. The combat system may not be complex, but you have to pay attention and participate in it. That's the difference.

SonicTMP

Sep 29, 2006, 12:21 AM

On 2006-09-28 21:56, Kyuu wrote:

On 2006-09-28 20:13, SonicTMP wrote:

Right so then the complaint abuot clicking a button over and over again in other mmorpg games has what point then?
Try reading a book while fighting in EQ-clone games like WoW. You'll find it's actually possible to do this. I know because I've done it.

Now try doing the same with PSU. You'll find that, when fighting enemies, you probably need to pay attention a lot more if you want to avoid dying or contribute even marginally to your team's progress.

It's called engagement. The combat system may not be complex, but you have to pay attention and participate in it. That's the difference.

Having a paladin as my main in wow I can both agree and disagree with this. Soloing yes. It's boring and dull and easy to farm and read a book meanwhile.

In a party format you don't have the ffa chaos PSU does. Espcially in a dunegon, everyone has to pay attention to their roles. Sure their are some simple times when you can just damage like crazy and be fine, but for the most part you need to make use of a variety of skills and pay attention. for example, let a runner go and you can have half the map comming after you. You don't have that sence of overwhelming doom in PSU. It be awesome if you had half the mission monsters all come running at you at once though, think of the aoe PA fun.

Now if you want to dicuss Raids (at least in wow since i've never played EQ). 90% of the classes don't have to do much but spam their attack or heal skill to a certian extent. Warriors are are required to pay attention or else.

Sure you have to pay attention more in PSU but mob AI in PSU is like a megaman boss. Find the pattern and it's easy to avoid. Not to mention they all sorta roam randomly now and then. WoW has mobs that will team up on you, get in your face and stay in it, run when threat of dying and be a general pain in the ass in a party situation.

Pinha

Sep 29, 2006, 01:35 AM

Having both a 60 Paladin and a 60 Warrior I can tell you that I alt-tab out of the game a lot when soloing, even with my warrior. I feel like a brainless bot sometimes.

About having to pay attention on an instance, that really only happens when you are either under the level of the enemies you are fighting in an instance (or your group average level is < than the mobs average level). Seriously, I just got out of a 45 minute Baron Run, my Paladin was the main tank, and we reached Baron with 4 minutes to spare. The group didn't have many epics, I'd say around 12 split among 5 party members. The rogues had mostly green armor. And we did fine.

WoW instances aren't difficult at ALL until AQ40 level. People tend to overrate their difficulty a lot to cover their own fault at not paying attention to the game. I actually find the analogy of megaman bosses more fitting for WoW, because there is usually just one, or two, ways to defeat a raid boss, nothing else works. If you don't do the same strategy everyone else does, it will be either significantly harder or impossible to beat him.