New ign PSU info [Archive]

Pinha

Oct 2, 2006, 09:53 PM

I have a small question that was probably already answered, but I can't seem to find it.

From IGN's preview:

"Experience allocation during battle varies depending on how much damage you deal. The more punishment you dole out, the more experience you rake in. So anyone hoping to coast through a fight by hanging back should know they're getting the least amount of benefit. In addition to your character and class levels, photon arts can be boosted as well with frequent use."

Does this mean that you can actually get EXP from monsters you didn't deal any damage to, or is it like PSO where you have to tag each and every single monster if you want to be awarded EXP points when they die?

I was hoping ST would learn from their mistakes and make a game where people don't have to worry about hitting every single enemy at least once. Enemies could be harder if players were allowed to go all-out on them without worrying if their teammates are receiving any EXP, and thus, more challenging.

Ether

Oct 2, 2006, 09:55 PM

IGN's completely wrong, tagging gets about 66% exp, death blow gets 100%. Same as PSO

Pinha

Oct 2, 2006, 10:08 PM

On 2006-10-02 19:55, Ether wrote:
IGN's completely wrong, tagging gets about 66% exp, death blow gets 100%. Same as PSO

I really don't know why they are keeping that distribution system, it is completely broken. Rewarding killing blows instead of splitting the XP evenly among the group only encourages player griefing and gives little incentive to play a full support role.

I seriously hope that they change their minds about it in the future.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 2, 2006, 10:14 PM

lolno, the EXP distribution encourages support roles, in my opinion, since a support force only needs to cast Agdeal or Defdeal or something of that nature once to tag ever enemy in the spawn.

If they made it so you didn't even have to tag, people would just stand at the back of the party and do absolutely nothing, and still end up leveling up. It's like Communism; a great idea in theory, but it in reality it results in nobody wanting to do anything particularly well.

PrinceBrightstar

Oct 2, 2006, 10:16 PM

IGN cheated. closed beta doesn't have story or extra mode active.

galaxy

Oct 2, 2006, 10:22 PM

yeah the tagging system prevents leechers who would just go afk during every fight and reap the benefits. it's cheap. and yes, it doesnt seem fair that purely support characters will ultimately get less experience because they aren't killing, only just hitting each enemy, but at the same time, support characters are some of the more sought out party members, since they make everyone else's jobs MUCH easier. so it's kind of a fair trade-off. plus, I don't see another fair way to distribute xp. If everyone got the same amount, then some people would just use a weak spreadfire weapon and let others do the work.

This system got a little unfair when people were hacking their weapons to do massive amounts of damage, but because hacking won't be an issue this time around due to server-side characters, it should work at absolutely fine.

Pinha

Oct 2, 2006, 10:33 PM

On 2006-10-02 20:14, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
lolno, the EXP distribution encourages support roles, in my opinion, since a support force only needs to cast Agdeal or Defdeal or something of that nature once to tag ever enemy in the spawn.

If they made it so you didn't even have to tag, people would just stand at the back of the party and do absolutely nothing, and still end up leveling up. It's like Communism; a great idea in theory, but it in reality it results in nobody wanting to do anything particularly well.

66% and 100% doesn't seem too big of a difference, until you realize that the people actually killing are getting 50% more exp than party members who are playing full support and quickly falling behind in levels. If a Hunter teams up with a pure support force at lvl 1, the force would be around lvl 6-7 when the hunter reaches lvl 10, unless I'm missing something. When the same hunter reaches lvl 20, he will probably want to go to missions where the force doesn't meet the level requeriment to go yet.

Fair? Hardly. You can't play full support and keep up with your friends. Thats my complaint.

Fuzzy-logic and Galaxy, your complaints about leechers are easily solved with a good party leader and a "kick from group" mechanic implemented.

[ This Message was edited by: Pinha on 2006-10-02 20:40 ]

Cross

Oct 2, 2006, 10:39 PM

On 2006-10-02 20:33, Pinha wrote:
If a Hunter teams up with a pure support force at lvl 1, the force would be around lvl 6-7 when the hunter reaches lvl 10, unless I'm missing something.

You're missing that the experience requirements to level up increase as you gain levels, so the level gap isn't going to be as drastic as level 6-7 and level 10. It would be close, but only at levels under 10. Once you hit 20+, it wouldn't be as large a difference.

You're right that PSU is just like PSO in making pure-support characters a really unattractive character choice. I'd prefer if it were split so that the person to land the first hit got a 17% bonus and the person to deliver the killing blow got a 17% bonus, instead of a full 33% bonus going to the person who got the killing blow.

Scirrocco

Oct 2, 2006, 11:00 PM

So we start out as a certain class depending on what race we choose? How much is the feeto change classes? I want to be a HUcast, but they start out as rangers. How long will it take to get the meseta i need for the job change?

Saner

Oct 3, 2006, 12:22 AM

actually you can choose which class you want to start off as. IGN tends to twist facts.

also they must be wrong about going to the galaxy map after exiting your Room for the first time, because all rooms are located at Guardian's Colony (notice your window always shows outerspace) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

why would your room let you directly travel to any planet? IGN really slipped with that info detail http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

but at least this is a great source to confirm a PC beta is going on.

it maes you wonder when the XBox360 and PS2 betas will begin and if it will be a open or closed beta.

[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-10-02 22:23 ]

Kyuu

Oct 3, 2006, 12:27 AM

Actually, you're wrong Saner. Humans start out as Hunters, Newmans as Forces, Casts as Ranger, and Beasts as Hunters. You don't get to choose what job you are during Character Create. However, you are given 100 meseta to start out with, and it costs exactly 100 meseta to change your job at level 1.

Edit: And I agree that the exp distribution helps prevent leeching, and doesn't penalize support-type players all that much since all you have to do is tag the enemies with a defdal or somesuch, which support Forces should be doing anyway. Also, all the classes are meant to be damage dealers. They didn't design any of the classes with a purely support role in mind. Forces should be nuking after they tag with their support spell(s).

Plus, Cross is right that it's not going to create that large a level difference even if a person does play purely support. Your math is based on the presumption that the experience required to gain a level increases in a purely linear fashion, which it of course doesn't. I think Cross's idea for the small bonuses for first-hit and death-blow would be better, though, rather than the one large bonus for a death-blow.

[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-10-02 22:32 ]

A2K

Oct 3, 2006, 12:28 AM

On 2006-10-02 22:22, Saner wrote:
actually you can choose which class you want to start off as. IGN tends to twist facts.

Er, not quite. Depending on your race you start out with a default class, but once you earn a tiny bit of Meseta (just 200 is required at level 1, I think) you can go straight to the counter on 5F and change.

Ah, of course, equipment would be another concern that early on...

Ether

Oct 3, 2006, 12:35 AM

On 2006-10-02 22:22, Saner wrote:

why would your room let you directly travel to any planet? IGN really slipped with that info detail http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Because it does http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Edit: Also you don't start with any meseta. Probably was a beta thing

[ This Message was edited by: Ether on 2006-10-02 22:43 ]

CpwninOBrien

Oct 3, 2006, 12:37 AM

so is it liek star trek??? lol vry funny PM now beam down my cloths

Saner

Oct 3, 2006, 12:41 AM

On 2006-10-02 22:35, Ether wrote:

On 2006-10-02 22:22, Saner wrote:

why would your room let you directly travel to any planet? IGN really slipped with that info detail http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Because it does http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

it DOES???? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

oh well um... anyways IGN makes mistakes sometimes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_salad.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-10-02 22:42 ]

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 12:42 AM

Saner

Oct 3, 2006, 12:46 AM

the PSO experience/tagging system has always worked perfectly.

it's better than FF11's system. a party member can be afk on purpose, and still get exp for doing nothing at all, and then apologize to avoid getting booted.

there is less exploits with the tag and finisher %s.

as for rare drops and stuff, we have a choice now, but I think first come first serve is better
because if its random then the leader will just boot everyone when a rare is picked up and before it randomly chooses which one will get it.

Ether

Oct 3, 2006, 12:48 AM

On 2006-10-02 22:46, Saner wrote:
if its random then the leader will just boot everyone when a rare is picked up and before it randomly chooses which one will get it.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

A2K

Oct 3, 2006, 12:49 AM

On 2006-10-02 22:42, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
And "kick from group" is a stupid idea. Rare dropped? No problem, just kick the entire party out and you'll definitely get it!

By the time you dig into your menus to get at the kick option someone would have picked it up already. Not only that, you have to go back into the menu for each person you want to kick.

Not to mention doing something like that ensures that no one will want to actually go and play with you anymore!

Souppy

Oct 3, 2006, 12:53 AM

IGN Reviews/Previews are always good... ... ... ... if you don't buy the game or if you know just a little something about it. I hate IGN because they can't make good reviews by screwing them up for no reason. I bought NHL 07 and the guy from IGN is just bad at reviewing. There is like 30 different bugs in NHL 07 and the guy reviewing it tries to tell us that there is no ''Create-A-Player'' that actually is in the game. Just poor.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 12:56 AM

On 2006-10-02 22:49, A2K wrote:

On 2006-10-02 22:42, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
And "kick from group" is a stupid idea. Rare dropped? No problem, just kick the entire party out and you'll definitely get it!

By the time you dig into your menus to get at the kick option someone would have picked it up already. Not only that, you have to go back into the menu for each person you want to kick.

Not to mention doing something like that ensures that no one will want to actually go and play with you anymore!

Yes, I know this, but the real point is that a "boot-a-noob" option just doesn't fit with PSO/U. There's a reason you can password games you make.

Pinha

Oct 3, 2006, 02:16 AM

Some classes are better at close-ranged combat, others must stay a little behind or they risk getting hit/killed by small area attacks, or they are simply more effective at range (Rangers with status-shotguns) First come first serve was terrible biased toward hunters in PSO imo.

as for rare drops and stuff, we have a choice now, but I think first come first serve is better

because if its random then the leader will just boot everyone when a rare is picked up and before it randomly chooses which one will get it.

And I really don't know why people freak out when they hear about a kick feature. Please, booting everyone from a group before someone picks up a rare? That is just impossible in any kind of RPG online I have ever played, and I've played quite a lot of different games. Do you have any idea how long it takes for a mainframe/server to generate a random number? I will give you a hint - they measure it in nanoseconds. Good luck browsing the menus at the speed of the light.

@Fuzzylogik
If you don't like the idea, its fine, and you have all the right to express yourself about it. But please, think a bit before posting a rushed argument shooting down said idea and calling it stupid.

[ This Message was edited by: Pinha on 2006-10-03 00:17 ]

Sevenfold

Oct 3, 2006, 04:11 AM

On 2006-10-03 00:16, Pinha wrote:
Some classes are better at close-ranged combat, others must stay a little behind or they risk getting hit/killed by small area attacks, or they are simply more effective at range (Rangers with status-shotguns) First come first serve was terrible biased toward hunters in PSO imo.

as for rare drops and stuff, we have a choice now, but I think first come first serve is better

because if its random then the leader will just boot everyone when a rare is picked up and before it randomly chooses which one will get it.

And I really don't know why people freak out when they hear about a kick feature. Please, booting everyone from a group before someone picks up a rare? That is just impossible in any kind of RPG online I have ever played, and I've played quite a lot of different games. Do you have any idea how long it takes for a mainframe/server to generate a random number? I will give you a hint - they measure it in nanoseconds. Good luck browsing the menus at the speed of the light.

@Fuzzylogik
If you don't like the idea, its fine, and you have all the right to express yourself about it. But please, think a bit before posting a rushed argument shooting down said idea and calling it stupid.

[ This Message was edited by: Pinha on 2006-10-03 00:17 ]

<---literally *rofl* Good stuff man.

ProfessorZ

Oct 3, 2006, 04:30 AM

Damn but it seems a lot of people are going to have grudges. This game on US soil looks like you're gonna have to keep the friends you play with cloooose

Kamica

Oct 3, 2006, 06:18 AM

On 2006-10-02 19:55, Ether wrote:
IGN's completely wrong, tagging gets about 66% exp, death blow gets 100%. Same as PSO

This is true for character experience. You can however be in a party for a full day and never kill a thing and you will STILL be able to get all the meseta rewards and job experience that everybody else worked for. A person will NOT get the randomly distributed items unless they are in the level that the group is actually playing in.

Saner

Oct 3, 2006, 07:28 AM

On 2006-10-03 04:18, Kamica wrote:

On 2006-10-02 19:55, Ether wrote:
IGN's completely wrong, tagging gets about 66% exp, death blow gets 100%. Same as PSO

This is true for character experience. You can however be in a party for a full day and never kill a thing and you will STILL be able to get all the meseta rewards and job experience that everybody else worked for. A person will NOT get the randomly distributed items unless they are in the level that the group is actually playing in.

well the leader is doing a lousy job if they don't notice someone is slacking off. if someone gets meseta rewards and jjob experience even doing nothing, it's the leaders own fault for not noticing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 12:16 PM

Just trust me, knowing the general nature of the PSO/U community, I can say with certainty that a boot user option would not be a good thing in the long run.

The real point is that the tag system of EXP distribution actually works to the advantage of support roles, assuming you play the role right and debuff everything.

Saner

Oct 3, 2006, 01:27 PM

support roles are overrated anyways, they have no one to blame but themselves if they just buff and debuff.

nuking is there for a reason. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

CpwninOBrien

Oct 3, 2006, 01:29 PM

On 2006-10-03 11:27, Saner wrote:
support roles are overrated anyways, they have no one to blame but themselves if they just buff and debuff.

nuking is there for a reason. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

lol i wish i taht funny http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 01:32 PM

All that nuking did in PSO was damage cancel. That won't be a problem in PSU, but I'll still expect forces to buff/debuff everything.

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 01:57 PM

On 2006-10-02 19:55, Ether wrote:
IGN's completely wrong, tagging gets about 66% exp, death blow gets 100%. Same as PSO

Actually in PSO you get 80% for tagging.

RoninJoku

Oct 3, 2006, 02:05 PM

On 2006-10-02 20:16, Jonathan_F wrote:
IGN cheated. closed beta doesn't have story or extra mode active.

Haha, yea I thought that was kinda funny. But definitely expected! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Pure-chan

Oct 3, 2006, 02:14 PM

On 2006-10-02 20:33, Pinha wrote:
66% and 100% doesn't seem too big of a difference, until you realize that the people actually killing are getting 50% more exp than party members who are playing full support and quickly falling behind in levels. If a Hunter teams up with a pure support force at lvl 1, the force would be around lvl 6-7 when the hunter reaches lvl 10, unless I'm missing something. When the same hunter reaches lvl 20, he will probably want to go to missions where the force doesn't meet the level requeriment to go yet.

Fair? Hardly. You can't play full support and keep up with your friends. Thats my complaint.

Fuzzy-logic and Galaxy, your complaints about leechers are easily solved with a good party leader and a "kick from group" mechanic implemented.

[ This Message was edited by: Pinha on 2006-10-02 20:40 ]

I don't think it's as lopsided as you're claiming.

Sure, if the scenario that you have described (1 pure support FO + 1 HU) were the only way to play, you'd level much more slowly as a support FO than a HU. However, most of the players on PSU will be in parties with more than two total people. In a larger party, exp distribution clearly favors a FO with area of effect spells.

While the HU and RA in your group are busy trying to get as much of the 100% exp as possible, you can tag everything with a few debuffs and ensure that two thirds of the total exp from the enemies on the field belongs to you.

Here's how 100% exp per kill vs. 66% per tag works:

Let's say there's a 6 person party. For argument's sake, we'll call it 5 HU, 1 support FO. Provided that all 5 HU are equally balanced, they would each be pulling in about 1/6th of the 100% party exp (~16.6%), + X amount of the tag exp.

Since pure support FO won't be killing anything, none of the 100% exp would fall to them. As such, their share of the 16.6% kill exp should again be split up between the other team members.

16.6% kill exp / 5 HU = an additional 3.2% kill exp per HU, adding up to roughly 20% of the 100% kill exp per HU, + X tagging exp (66%).

How does this end up in game?:

Well, let's say that there are 10 enemies in a room, worth 10 exp each, for a total of 100 exp...

* FO casting debuff on the room would = 10 tags at 6.6 pts each for 66 total pts.
* Each HU killing an equal share of the 10 enemies (2 enemies per HU) = 20 total pts.

...As you've probably noticed, that's a healthy gap (46 exp) between the FO and the HU. To compensate for this gap each HU would also need to tag other enemies. Basically, 46 exp / 6.6 exp per tag = 6.96 enemies.

So if I'm not mistaken, in order for a HU to keep up in a 5 HU, 1 support FO party -- the HU would need to kill two enemies and tag seven more. That means hitting nine out of every ten enemies, while killing two ...just to keep in step with a support FO. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-03 12:18 ]

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 02:17 PM

Somehting is wrong if people have to start doing calculations for a game. JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME.

SephYuyX

Oct 3, 2006, 02:17 PM

IGN has got to be the worst news source pertaining to anything.

AngelLight

Oct 3, 2006, 02:18 PM

I think today we have seen the day of the replacement of "theorycraft"....

...."Theory Star Universe" ...go TSU ^_^

j/k I tend to agree with you on this chan.

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 02:20 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:17, SephirothYuyX wrote:
IGN has got to be the worst news source pertaining to anything.

Does it matter? Its just insight, Unless your the type of person who lieks to get their info from ONE source rather than several o_O

ayrista

Oct 3, 2006, 02:24 PM

lol, im sorry, but does that say "Ethan Waber" ? is that a typo? i thought it was Weber

dam i wish he would put a PA on that wep.. he's lvl 10 for gosh sakes

[ This Message was edited by: ayrista on 2006-10-03 12:25 ]

Maxurion

Oct 3, 2006, 02:43 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:14, Pure-chan wrote:

On 2006-10-02 20:33, Pinha wrote:
66% and 100% doesn't seem too big of a difference, until you realize that the people actually killing are getting 50% more exp than party members who are playing full support and quickly falling behind in levels. If a Hunter teams up with a pure support force at lvl 1, the force would be around lvl 6-7 when the hunter reaches lvl 10, unless I'm missing something. When the same hunter reaches lvl 20, he will probably want to go to missions where the force doesn't meet the level requeriment to go yet.

Fair? Hardly. You can't play full support and keep up with your friends. Thats my complaint.

Fuzzy-logic and Galaxy, your complaints about leechers are easily solved with a good party leader and a "kick from group" mechanic implemented.

I don't think it's as lopsided as you're claiming.

Sure, if the scenario that you have described (1 pure support FO + 1 HU) were the only way to play, you'd level much more slowly as a support FO than a HU. However, most of the players on PSU will be in parties with more than two total people. In a larger party, exp distribution clearly favors a FO with area of effect spells.

While the HU and RA in your group are busy trying to get as much of the 100% exp as possible, you can tag everything with a few debuffs and ensure that two thirds of the total exp from the enemies on the field belongs to you.

Here's how 100% exp per kill vs. 66% per tag works:

Let's say there's a 6 person party. For argument's sake, we'll call it 5 HU, 1 support FO. Provided that all 5 HU are equally balanced, they would each be pulling in about 1/6th of the 100% party exp (~16.6%), + X amount of the tag exp.

Since pure support FO won't be killing anything, none of the 100% exp would fall to them. As such, their share of the 16.6% kill exp should again be split up between the other team members.

16.6% kill exp / 5 HU = an additional 3.2% kill exp per HU, adding up to roughly 20% of the 100% kill exp per HU, + X tagging exp (66%).

How does this end up in game?:

Well, let's say that there are 10 enemies in a room, worth 10 exp each, for a total of 100 exp...
blah blah blah...

Ow, math hurts my brain O.o

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 02:46 PM

Exactly, games are about fun not excessive examination, It only makes the experience shallow.

Pure-chan

Oct 3, 2006, 02:49 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:17, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
I troll.

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 02:51 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:49, Pure-chan wrote:

I do excessive exmamination for self-validation.

Pure-chan

Oct 3, 2006, 02:56 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:51, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

On 2006-10-03 12:49, Pure-chan wrote:

I do excessive exmamination for self-validation.

Nope. I'm interested in game design/balance.

[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-03 12:58 ]

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 03:00 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:56, Pure-chan wrote:

I was pwnt so hard I have to recycle the same remark I made in a previous post since I;m too vain to let this go.

Cross

Oct 3, 2006, 03:09 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:46, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Exactly, games are about fun not excessive examination, It only makes the experience shallow.

If understanding how something works makes it more shallow, it wasn't worth doing in the first place.

Besides, why do you think you can speak for everybody in terms of what's fun and what isn't?

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 03:21 PM

I say this because Before somone on Monster Hunter had posted a "Damage Mechanics" Guide on GameFAQs their were less elitists and elitist poseur noobs who think they are leet just ebcause they no how to optimize themselves base don other peoples information. All of a sudden people refused to let people join a group based on their weapon or gear or just talk mad shit. Posting such info may SEEM like a good service to the community but in the end its counter productive as we all knoe ignorance is bliss. The less we know the more enjoyable the exerience can be when dealing with other people. Information about optimizating their methods of progression is dangerous to the majority since the majority is ignorant.

Maxurion

Oct 3, 2006, 03:23 PM

^

.... How does that make any sense?

Edit: There's nothing wrong with knowing how a game works... it just takes a bit of... complex mathematics.

[ This Message was edited by: Maxurion on 2006-10-03 13:25 ]

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 03:37 PM

Because when noobs think they can become know-it-alls and try and dictate what people are allowed to use in order to join their group since this game has adotped similiar grouping mechanics as Monster Hunter Where your performance dictates your reward their will be a bunch of noobs getting upset when they don't get the highest possible performance rating.

Also this may not be an issue in PSU but after I looked at the guide I reffered to in my previous post I ended up losing enthusiasm for weapons I liked to use over using stringer weapons even though it didn't matter since skill is your greatest weapon.

The point is the less detailed you get about how peeps can play a game the more they can just have fun without submiting to the optimization mentality. This would only be an issue for those who don't bother to make friends and just play with various peeps that have an open game. The game becomes less casual when peeps start stressing optimization.

Maxurion

Oct 3, 2006, 03:52 PM

If they try to tell you what you can use in order to join their group... just join a different group...

Cigaro

Oct 3, 2006, 04:03 PM

On 2006-10-03 13:52, Maxurion wrote:
If they try to tell you what you can use in order to join their group... just join a different group...

I agree with BlackWaltz entirely here, and it's the main reason I tend to shy away from online gaming in general.

It seems that, in no time at all, any online game becomes a dick-wagging contest and nothing more. If you aren't the best, you suck. There's no middle ground for you to actually enjoy yourself in.

Before long, unless you're playing with people you know personally, you won't be able to join random games, as everyone will want only the best, most elite-minded players. The game will become nothing more than a rat-race, just like what happened to World of Warcraft. Personally, I like to be able to enjoy whatever game I play, and that involves expressing myself. If I want to be a gigantic beast that uses fans EXCLUSIVELY, I sure as hell will, and I will OWN THAT SHIT in the process. I would become the most skilled beast-with-fans player I could be. Just because I don't resemble every single other end-game clown with identical optimal gear doesn't mean I am not a worthwhile addition to your fucking party. I give you 110% every time, even if I actually enjoy the game instead of obsessing over it.

</$0.02>

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 04:07 PM

The point is people shouldn't be thinking like that, their are new impressionable people that play these types of games for the first time and get exposed to that type of behavior and adopt it as the norm. This isn't just a personal gripe this is a gripe that can become an issue for new and/or impressionable players. Have you not noticed some of the past "gimp" threads that have come and gone? or that one thread about slicers where someoned said Slicers were useless? That type of mentality isn't good for these types of games, people should be able to play the way they fele like playing without feeling inadequite.

Cigaro

Oct 3, 2006, 04:10 PM

On 2006-10-03 14:07, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
...or that one thread about slicers where someoned said Slicers were useless?

I saw that thread, and personally I love slicers. I was good with them and I could make that shit work.

Just because someone doesn't see the immediate good in a weapon doesn't make it instantly suck. That isn't to say there weren't TRULY sucky weapons in the game, though. Slicers just weren't really one of them.

Blackwaltz-R

Oct 3, 2006, 04:24 PM

Yeah, cause their are plenty of people who only indulge in particular sets of items or weapons and condemn the rest. I always go out of my way to familiarize msyelf with every type of weapon. Admittedly to this day I still consider the pre-5star Canes and Rods sucky. Also in Monster Hunter their are plenty of peeps who condemn certain weapons and I use all the weapons in that game so I tend to throw my pennies everywhere.

Although the issue here was about an optimized method for EXP aquisition when your playing a support role which was pretty elaborate. Its good for personal use but for masses it can set an unintended impression on peeps on how they think they should play. If it were more generla than it prolly wouldn't have been much of an issue since people just observe and place it in the back of their mind as refference. Peeps may become obssessed with getting as much exp as possible rather than just playing the game without stressing.

Pure-chan

Oct 3, 2006, 04:30 PM

On 2006-10-03 13:21, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Posting such info may SEEM like a good service to the community but in the end its counter productive as we all knoe ignorance is bliss. The less we know the more enjoyable the exerience can be when dealing with other people. Information about optimizating their methods of progression is dangerous to the majority since the majority is ignorant.

Yor Pro-Ignorance stance would be a lot more compelling for a game in which PVP played a pivotal role. ...Or even a game in which the PVE took more thought than mashing the A button. Name one time in PSO where you were not allowed into a party due to equip.

If you weren't so busy trying to crap on everyone's posts in an effort to make yourself feel smarter, you might have caught the purpose of my post; basically explaining that FO don't get the short end of the stick on exp. The 66% exp bonus from tagging makes it possible to do something other than tank, like crowd control, or in this case, support.

Debuffs should allow you to make a full-on support FO with no offensive technics and still play through the game at an enjoyable pace. This should in turn encourage people to play support and hopefully increase the chances for community building vs. soloing. I'm personally excited about it since I intend to FO.

You may also want to consider that without analyzing factors like the pattern for exp distribution, it may not occur to people that you can play a FO in a way other than spamming Rafoie. Understanding all of possibile permutations for a class allows players to be much more creative in HOW that class is played - much like the poster talking about using Fan-equipped-Beast.

As far as over-analyzing goes, like it or not, but someone has to think of this stuff, or you'd be playing "Roll the can down the street with a stick XIII".

On 2006-10-03 14:24, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

Although the issue here was about an optimized method for EXP aquisition when your playing a support role which was pretty elaborate. Its good for personal use but for masses it can set an unintended impression on peeps on how they think they should play. If it were more generla than it prolly wouldn't have been much of an issue since people just observe and place it in the back of their mind as refference. Peeps may become obssessed with getting as much exp as possible rather than just playing the game without stressing.

Right on. Good to know that I have your permission to think. (as long as it's not in public)

[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-03 15:33 ]

Parn

Oct 3, 2006, 04:31 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:46, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Exactly, games are about fun not excessive examination, It only makes the experience shallow.

On 2006-10-03 14:24, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Yeah, cause their are plenty of people who only indulge in particular sets of items or weapons and condemn the rest. I always go out of my way to familiarize msyelf with every type of weapon.
Your consistency is amazing!

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 05:31 PM

There's really little reason to intentionally use a sub-optimal set-up for your character, except for your own enjoyment.

To use a PSO example, you can be a teching HUmar (or a cast that doesn't use traps, or a force that doesn't always s/d/j/z/resta, etc.) if you want, but don't expect anyone to want to play with you.

In games like this, each class has its own specific role in a party, and others will expect you to fulfill your role. You can choose to play another sub-optimal role, but it won't make you any friends.

Kyuu

Oct 3, 2006, 05:53 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:17, Blackwaltz-R wrote:

Somehting is wrong if people have to start doing calculations for a game. JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME.
Pure-chan doing some very basic math to disprove the claim that the exp distribution system somehow shafts support FOs in no way detracts from enjoyment of the game.

Alexandrious1

Oct 3, 2006, 06:27 PM

On 2006-10-03 14:10, Cigaro wrote:

On 2006-10-03 14:07, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
...or that one thread about slicers where someoned said Slicers were useless?

I saw that thread, and personally I love slicers. I was good with them and I could make that shit work.

Just because someone doesn't see the immediate good in a weapon doesn't make it instantly suck. That isn't to say there weren't TRULY sucky weapons in the game, though. Slicers just weren't really one of them.

Yea gotta agree here, some elitists thought Twin Swords sucked compared to say Double Saber weapons, yet I killed and ran thru mobs faster with my S-Rank Twins then another same leveled Humar using Meteor cudgel I believe it was, its all skill.

I also personally loved slicers, and killed very quickly with my S-rank serk j-cutters, I usually cause a 3-hit combo on a group of mobs, resta, then finish off with Red Sword or my S-rank twins. If anyone tells you slicers suck, he/she is a noob.

nuff said.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 07:10 PM

You can't really compare weapon classes in a general manner like that, you really should look at each individual weapon. S-Rank Swords has 680 (set) ATP at max grind, whereas Meteor Cudgel (also at max grind) ranges from 330 to 590. Add in that your S-Rank Swords had Spirit, and the winner is clear. It doesn't matter, anyway, since Daylight Scar beats them both (550-600, relatively small range, best special in the game, 1 hit more than S-Rank Swords, arguably better animation, and a 3 ATA advantage). In my opinion, the most useful double saber is the 50 hit Double Saber from Ult 5-5, although that is useless to all non-forces.

Slicers, although generally fun, were extremely situational in PSO (not including Rainbow baton, due to it's crazy ATP [for a slicer] and the fact that it should always have at least 50 hit). Slicers were simply no good as a main weapon. Sure, a DoB with hit is great against bosses, and a slicer is practically required for the Ep. 4 boss. In most cases, however, a sword type is simply going to have a higher damage output. There are, of course, other helpful uses for a slicer (e.g. a SoF or Flight Cutter on a ranger against Girta), but there are usually other weapons that do the job more efficiently (S-Rank Needle with Demons on Girta).

Cigaro

Oct 3, 2006, 07:15 PM

Maxurion

Oct 3, 2006, 07:42 PM

On 2006-10-03 12:43, Maxurion wrote:

Ow, math hurts my brain O.o

Uhm... I think you took this post a little bit too serious Blackwaltz-R...

Sevenfold

Oct 3, 2006, 07:52 PM

Not quite sure how my post turned into all that, but...it just makes me wish PSU was out that much sooner.

Maxurion

Oct 3, 2006, 07:58 PM

Yeah it kind of went a little... off-topic, heh heh.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 09:24 PM

On 2006-10-03 17:15, Cigaro wrote:

I still had a blast. People liked playing with me because I was nice, generous and helped them out the best I could. There is more to PSO than just maxing your stats.

If you enjoy playing that way, then more power to you. You may choose to play however you please, and so can I. Personally, I find it pointless to use sub-optimal equipment, at least not in a serious party. And people enjoy playing with me, because I play my classes well and do everything that is expected of me.

There's really no point to arguing over this. I find it pointless to use sub-optimal equipment, and you find it pointless to worry about your equipment. There is no right answer, just play however you desire and find like-minded people to play with, that's what I do.

Alexandrious1

Oct 3, 2006, 10:12 PM

On 2006-10-03 17:10, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
You can't really compare weapon classes in a general manner like that, you really should look at each individual weapon. S-Rank Swords has 680 (set) ATP at max grind, whereas Meteor Cudgel (also at max grind) ranges from 330 to 590. Add in that your S-Rank Swords had Spirit, and the winner is clear. It doesn't matter, anyway, since Daylight Scar beats them both (550-600, relatively small range, best special in the game, 1 hit more than S-Rank Swords, arguably better animation, and a 3 ATA advantage). In my opinion, the most useful double saber is the 50 hit Double Saber from Ult 5-5, although that is useless to all non-forces.

Slicers, although generally fun, were extremely situational in PSO (not including Rainbow baton, due to it's crazy ATP [for a slicer] and the fact that it should always have at least 50 hit). Slicers were simply no good as a main weapon. Sure, a DoB with hit is great against bosses, and a slicer is practically required for the Ep. 4 boss. In most cases, however, a sword type is simply going to have a higher damage output. There are, of course, other helpful uses for a slicer (e.g. a SoF or Flight Cutter on a ranger against Girta), but there are usually other weapons that do the job more efficiently (S-Rank Needle with Demons on Girta).

Ahh yes the DS, lol I found 2 of those and gave em to my gf and a friend. Its a beast of a weapon but even still I killed faster then those wielding them. It takes a certain knack to use Twin swords effectively, it isnt easy to obtain that knack, hence why its not so popular. Most players would just take a favored weapon side or whatever is most powerful and go all hell with it, unless they are a cast, casts have to be skillfull with everything due to lack of resta. I basically took the cast approach, I would always judge distance, eliminate one mob then quickly move to the next one approaching, then the next one and the next, without taking a hit as best as possible.

Daylight combo and Double Saber combo is just too long, theirs also the recovery time before you can move or strike again, and with the ds's short range, ive seen many people get hit before they could get away after a combo. And when ya get hit youll naturally want to heal yourself if you think another hit will be risky, that stops you from attacking, making you use time to resta, quickly situate yourself, then get back to killing. Where as twinswords has a average range, when used right if you dont kill off the mob in a single combo you can still get away before being hit.

Of course if you have a force friend to heal spam you it doesnt really matter, you can go mindless if you wanted, lol.

Also serk can be dangerous to use without a force to heal you or you can predict everything thats gonna happen around you *basically know your spawns, know the spawns around you right now* ive placed spirit on my S-ranks since I dont have much use for TP really. Im always finding difluids and trifluids so I use em for tp regen. Ive never did test how id gone up against someone with that black king bar though, never could find a legit player with one.

Alas I got bored with the game before the, I think it was called Jizai? Was released, or have been released, im not sure, was it? I would gotten that weapon if it had.

Looking at PSU though and seeing the many polls on weapons. Dual sabers which is basically like Twin Swords, will be popular this time around.

[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-10-03 20:28 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-10-03 20:35 ]

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 10:30 PM

LOL U SED JIZ

But yeah, It's a matter of prefference. Personally, I hate spirit but love berserk. And yes, JIZ-EYE is technically the strongest melee weapon, but I dislike male animation for the weapon type, and its special is really only worthwhile on a HUcl (for the ATA), and even then, it isn't as useful in Ult as 'zerk.

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2006-10-03 20:31 ]

Alexandrious1

Oct 3, 2006, 10:36 PM

On 2006-10-03 20:30, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
LOL U SED JIZ

But yeah, It's a matter of prefference. Personally, I hate spirit but love berserk. And yes, JIZ-EYE is technically the strongest melee weapon, but I dislike male animation for the weapon type, and its special is really only worthwhile on a HUcl (for the ATA), and even then, it isn't as useful in Ult as 'zerk.

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2006-10-03 20:31 ]

Male animation was bad? o_O weird I thought it was bad for the hunewearls, least I think I remember Krystal telling me that when she tried to use twin swords on her Hunny. My memories rotted I suppose....

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 3, 2006, 10:43 PM

The first hit is just too painfully slow, in my opinion. Daggers are faster getting started, but drop off in speed towards the end.

-Break-

Oct 3, 2006, 10:48 PM

Everyone knows its all about the style baby. I prefer to play with individuals who have indentity.

Pure-chan

Oct 4, 2006, 11:45 AM

On 2006-10-03 20:48, -Break- wrote:
Everyone knows its all about the style baby. I prefer to play with individuals who have indentity.

I agree. My preference is for equip that balances out both my personal playstyle and the aesthetics of my character. PS's online history shows us that PSU will likely end up being a predominantly casual game, even with some people stressing builds/optimization.

There should be room for everyone to go with their preferences without elitetists, or in Blackwaltz's case 'Anti-elite' alarmists insisting that you are only allowed to play their way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-04 09:59 ]

Alexandrious1

Oct 4, 2006, 05:32 PM

On 2006-10-03 20:43, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
The first hit is just too painfully slow, in my opinion. Daggers are faster getting started, but drop off in speed towards the end.

oooh the first hit, well see thats where the knack comes in, you gotta be able to perfectly get that first hit off before getting hit yourself everytime thru precise timing, trust me its all practice.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 4, 2006, 06:16 PM

Don't get me wrong, I can effectively use my JIZ-EYE

ShinMaruku

Oct 4, 2006, 06:19 PM

On 2006-10-02 20:16, Jonathan_F wrote:
IGN cheated. closed beta doesn't have story or extra mode active.

Well they do have debug consoles and software that allows them to cheat.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Oct 4, 2006, 06:20 PM

Don't get me wrong, I can effectively use my JIZ-EYE, but I'd rather just attack faster with my DS.

Chronosv2

Oct 4, 2006, 07:08 PM

On 2006-10-04 09:45, Pure-chan wrote:

On 2006-10-03 20:48, -Break- wrote:
Everyone knows its all about the style baby. I prefer to play with individuals who have indentity.

I agree. My preference is for equip that balances out both my personal playstyle and the aesthetics of my character. PS's online history shows us that PSU will likely end up being a predominantly casual game, even with some people stressing builds/optimization.

There should be room for everyone to go with their preferences without elitetists, or in Blackwaltz's case 'Anti-elite' alarmists insisting that you are only allowed to play their way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-04 09:59 ]

I agree completely. Heck, I roleplay, and really, once a person finds a weapon they like (I'm talking rare here, of course you'll upgrade that initial Saber for something better) how often do they switch out? Not terribly often. In my PSO Ep1&2 days, I found a set of Musashis, and as I never found the next level of twin swords, I never saw the need to use something else, other than a handgun or somesuch when I needed to hit hard-to-reach enemies. I personally believe in playing with what you want to play with. So long as I'm not being told what to use, I'm perfectly happy.