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Elleranda
Oct 15, 2006, 11:14 PM
I heard that only certain expert classes can S rank in certain weapons and even classes like fortefighter can't use all melee weapons! Is this true? It can't be true... But in my heart, I know it is, because this game was looking too good to be true. Sonic Team was bound to do something stupid at one point.

Sure, this adds "variety" to classes. But you know what it REALLY does? It makes it so you can't use whatever weapons you want because you're gimping yourself otherwise. You're a fortefighter, huh? Well, say goodbye to those dreams of dual sabers, because you only get A rank in those, and *S* rank in dual claws! Unless, of course, you don't mind being less effective...

It's like FFXI all over again. Sigh.

CpwninOBrien
Oct 15, 2006, 11:16 PM
its true also its no big deal for some small mesetas u cna switch class any time hope this helps http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Arcturus
Oct 15, 2006, 11:16 PM
Would you prefer a lie or the truth?

DizzyDi
Oct 15, 2006, 11:17 PM
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-2/crybaby.jpg

Ryven
Oct 15, 2006, 11:17 PM
Who's to say you won't find a really good set of A rank Dual Sabers? I know what you mean about FFXI, if you didn't have a SH, Snipers/Verener's etc., you were labeled as gimp. But PSU is much different, I don't think people will be as picky and crazy about what you use. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Elleranda
Oct 15, 2006, 11:18 PM
On 2006-10-15 21:16, CpwninOBrien wrote:
its true also its no big deal for some small mesetas u cna switch class any time hope this helps http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



But then if you switch classes you're still missing out on something... You still can't use whatever you want to as that class, unless you want to be less effective. Switching classes won't fix anything, unless weapon ranks stay with you (which I doubt).

RamenEater
Oct 15, 2006, 11:18 PM
Where the stats posted for this again?

CpwninOBrien
Oct 15, 2006, 11:18 PM
hmm i cant see it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Elleranda
Oct 15, 2006, 11:21 PM
On 2006-10-15 21:17, DizzyDi wrote:
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-2/crybaby.jpg



Go elsewhere. Trolls are wastes of space. Thanks.



On 2006-10-15 21:17, Ryven wrote:
Who's to say you won't find a really good set of A rank Dual Sabers? I know what you mean about FFXI, if you didn't have a SH, Snipers/Verener's etc., you were labeled as gimp. But PSU is much different, I don't think people will be as picky and crazy about what you use. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.



I don't particularly care what other people think about me being gimp or not, I care about being cornered to certain weapon types like in FFXI. I care about my own personal efficiency, so this effects me, though I know there's pleanty people who don't care if they deal crap damage as long as they look good doing it.

DizzyDi
Oct 15, 2006, 11:26 PM
What is so WRONG with having to specialize in a few certain weapon classes? Isn't this standard proceedure for MMOs anyway? Good lord man. 9 times out of 10 anyway you're gunna find 2-3 weapon types you like and stick to them anyway. They separate the weapon specialities for balance purposes. Jeezus you want some cheese with your whine?

CpwninOBrien
Oct 15, 2006, 11:27 PM
On 2006-10-15 21:18, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 21:16, CpwninOBrien wrote:
its true also its no big deal for some small mesetas u cna switch class any time hope this helps http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



But then if you switch classes you're still missing out on something... You still can't use whatever you want to as that class, unless you want to be less effective. Switching classes won't fix anything, unless weapon ranks stay with you (which I doubt).



u lvl stuff like arts bullets and techs and those do stay with you no mater what class u choose just cant use them all at once or at full potential to

Ryven
Oct 15, 2006, 11:28 PM
I don't particularly care what other people think about me being gimp or not, I care about being cornered to certain weapon types like in FFXI. I care about my own personal efficiency, so this effects me, though I know there's pleanty people who don't care if they deal crap damage as long as they look good doing it.



Sorry, I must have misunderstood your first post then. If you're only worried about your efficiency, then I say do whatever you want and use whatever you want. I see you don't want to be confined to only a few weapon types, but there isn't really much that can be done about it. I'm sure A Ranks won't be terrible compared to S Ranks, probably just the opposite. I'd say the jump in power will be significant, but not so much that you'll be disappointed in yourself.

Aphael
Oct 15, 2006, 11:30 PM
"Crap Damage," hm?

I haven't even played any of the three betas, but going on PSO experience alone, the difference between an A Rank weapon and S Rank weapon would probably be... Oh I don't know, let's go with some extreme examples - Twin Brand (A) and Dark Flow (S).

The difference in power is obvious, granted. But did that difference, by the time a player could get the items, really make THAT much difference?

With XI's weapon skills, you were really gimping yourself by taking a substantially weaker weapon. A warrior with a great sword is going to miss more, do less damage, and have no weapon skills at all compared to one with a great axe. In PSU, since the rank seems to dictate only what you can use, not how good you are with it, that's a completely different system, and I don't think it's going to be that much of a game killer.

Zorafim
Oct 15, 2006, 11:35 PM
Just to correct you for a bit, um, the twin brands were better than the dark flow unless you insisted on being at 10% health all the time. Dark Flow can't combo...

Sevenfold
Oct 15, 2006, 11:43 PM
More FFXI bs.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sevenfold on 2006-10-15 21:43 ]</font>

Elleranda
Oct 15, 2006, 11:44 PM
On 2006-10-15 21:26, DizzyDi wrote:
What is so WRONG with having to specialize in a few certain weapon classes? Isn't this standard proceedure for MMOs anyway? Good lord man. 9 times out of 10 anyway you're gunna find 2-3 weapon types you like and stick to them anyway. They separate the weapon specialities for balance purposes. Jeezus you want some cheese with your whine?



I think you need a little more reading comprehension.

Allow me to bring it down to your level:

ME WANT BE FORTEIGHTER. DEY SMASH GOOD AND SKIN OF METAL. ME WANT USE DUAL SABER, BUT TWIN CLAW BETTER FOR ME. FIGUNNER USE WEAPON ME WANT USE, BUT DEY NO SMASH SO GOOD AND SKIN NOT SO METAL. IT IS PREDICAMENT.


Sorry, I must have misunderstood your first post then. If you're only worried about your efficiency, then I say do whatever you want and use whatever you want. I see you don't want to be confined to only a few weapon types, but there isn't really much that can be done about it. I'm sure A Ranks won't be terrible compared to S Ranks, probably just the opposite. I'd say the jump in power will be significant, but not so much that you'll be disappointed in yourself.

Mm. I see your point, but even so, if I found an S rank weapon that I didn't really like the looks of (knuckles or something) and you had an A rank weapon that you did like the looks of (dual sabers or daggers or something), and the S rank was better in every way, I'd have to pick the S rank. But bringing this on to my next quote...


On 2006-10-15 21:30, Aphael wrote:
"Crap Damage," hm?

I haven't even played any of the three betas, but going on PSO experience alone, the difference between an A Rank weapon and S Rank weapon would probably be... Oh I don't know, let's go with some extreme examples - Twin Brand (A) and Dark Flow (S).

The difference in power is obvious, granted. But did that difference, by the time a player could get the items, really make THAT much difference?

With XI's weapon skills, you were really gimping yourself by taking a substantially weaker weapon. A warrior with a great sword is going to miss more, do less damage, and have no weapon skills at all compared to one with a great axe. In PSU, since the rank seems to dictate only what you can use, not how good you are with it, that's a completely different system, and I don't think it's going to be that much of a game killer.

If it really is just a proficiency thing, then that's not nearly as bad as I thought it was. I'll still have to pick up S rank twin claws or knuckles as opposed to A rank dual sabers, but at least it'll be a long while before I even find any S ranks. ... And there is the unique factor with using claws/knuckles as everyone and their mother will be using dual sabers. It's not so bad as I assumed it was, I guess!

Also, I'm very impressed with the level of intelligence and kindness most of you portray. Thanks.

Alexandrious1
Oct 15, 2006, 11:48 PM
Yea im a bit disapointed myself, I thought Fortefighters can use S-Rank Twin Sabers, looked at chart found out they couldnt, only Figunners can use em.

Now im torn between either fortefighter or figunner, Twin Sabers are my primary weapon of choice -_-, but Figunner does look pretty versatile....wont have as high hp dfp and atk as Fortefighter though, but versatile.

Zinsian
Oct 15, 2006, 11:54 PM
On 2006-10-15 21:26, DizzyDi wrote:
What is so WRONG with having to specialize in a few certain weapon classes? Isn't this standard proceedure for MMOs anyway? Good lord man. 9 times out of 10 anyway you're gunna find 2-3 weapon types you like and stick to them anyway. They separate the weapon specialities for balance purposes. Jeezus you want some cheese with your whine?


I think you need a little more reading comprehension.

Allow me to bring it down to your level:

ME WANT BE FORTEIGHTER. DEY SMASH GOOD AND SKIN OF METAL. ME WANT USE DUAL SABER, BUT TWIN CLAW BETTER FOR ME. FIGUNNER USE WEAPON ME WANT USE, BUT DEY NO SMASH SO GOOD AND SKIN NOT SO METAL. IT IS PREDICAMENT.

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Cross
Oct 15, 2006, 11:57 PM
On 2006-10-15 21:44, Elleranda wrote:
ME WANT BE FORTEIGHTER. DEY SMASH GOOD AND SKIN OF METAL. ME WANT USE DUAL SABER, BUT TWIN CLAW BETTER FOR ME. FIGUNNER USE WEAPON ME WANT USE, BUT DEY NO SMASH SO GOOD AND SKIN NOT SO METAL. IT IS PREDICAMENT.

Well I'd like to be a Force with max-level techs and enough TAP do deal thousands of damage with every Barta but I'd also like to have a Photon Axe with a level 30 Photon Art attached plus I think I should have the highest defense in the game.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

Elleranda
Oct 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
I guess.. I'm mostly disappointed because I thought I had read that hunter types can use any melee weapon they want, but will need to spend points into increasing their rank with that weapon. Same with rangers and ranged weapons and forces with their canes/rods and some ranged weapons. And that would be pretty neat. That way, there's still balance and versitility, but you can use what you like the most.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 22:06 ]</font>

Ryven
Oct 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
Hmm, well you're right, Figunner does look very versatile, and I'm thinkin of doing that myself. But I just can't shake the want of being a fortefighter. I've been a pure Hunter in every PSO to date (May sound boring to most, but I just enjoy it that way), and I don't know if I could go through a Phantasy Star game without being one. I'm sure I will try out different combinations in the offline extra mode while the server is down/I get tired of bad parties, and I suggest everyone else do the same. There's no use in taking a chance on something when you can experience it for yourself. Oh well, I'm just rambling now >>

EnixBelmont
Oct 15, 2006, 11:59 PM
Figunners can be casts too.

I understand why you would complain, but it isn't that big a deal. A rank still isn't bad, and until the way later levels, it won't be a problem.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:00 AM
Well I'd like to be a Force with max-level techs and enough TAP do deal thousands of damage with every Barta but I'd also like to have a Photon Axe with a level 30 Photon Art attached plus I think I should have the highest defense in the game.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

Yes, I see exactly where you're going with this; a goddamned brick wall!

I'm not a force wanting to use a bazooka, I'm a fighter wanting to use the fighter weapon I want to.

Openget
Oct 16, 2006, 12:00 AM
On 2006-10-15 21:57, Cross wrote:


Well I'd like to be a Force with max-level techs and enough TAP do deal thousands of damage with every Barta but I'd also like to have a Photon Axe with a level 30 Photon Art attached plus I think I should have the highest defense in the game.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.



QFT.

You can't have everything.

SpishackCola
Oct 16, 2006, 12:07 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:00, Openget wrote:


On 2006-10-15 21:57, Cross wrote:


Well I'd like to be a Force with max-level techs and enough TAP do deal thousands of damage with every Barta but I'd also like to have a Photon Axe with a level 30 Photon Art attached plus I think I should have the highest defense in the game.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.



QFT.

You can't have everything.



QFE

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:10 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:07, SpishackCola wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:00, Openget wrote:


On 2006-10-15 21:57, Cross wrote:


Well I'd like to be a Force with max-level techs and enough TAP do deal thousands of damage with every Barta but I'd also like to have a Photon Axe with a level 30 Photon Art attached plus I think I should have the highest defense in the game.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.



QFT.

You can't have everything.



QFE



You can stop quoting now. I agree with "you can't have everything", but that's not even what I was talking about.

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 12:14 AM
If you want to see what each clas can use I belive that there are other forum on PSU General that have that information, also PSUpedia should have that information.

http://www.psupedia.org

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:16 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:14, MaximusLight wrote:
If you want to see what each clas can use I belive that there are other forum on PSU General that have that information, also PSUpedia should have that information.

http://www.psupedia.org



Hey, thanks!

Oji_Retta
Oct 16, 2006, 12:17 AM
"I'm not a force wanting to use a bazooka, I'm a fighter wanting to use the fighter weapon I want to." QFT

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 12:24 AM
No problem also the most direct topic on this I could find on this site is here, in case anyone would like to see it without to much looking:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120512&forum=20&163

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:26 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:24, MaximusLight wrote:
No problem also the most direct topic on this I could find on this site is here, in case anyone would like to see it without to much looking:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120512&forum=20&163



Mm? He says fortefighters get S rank in twin sabers.. I wonder which source of information is correct.

Edit: The info on that post actually seems to make more sense than what I've seen before, so I'm hoping that's the correct one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 22:27 ]</font>

EnixBelmont
Oct 16, 2006, 12:26 AM
Figunner is just a different class of melee fighter now. In normal MMO terms, think of figunner as a thief, with all the fast weapons and some long range(usually a bow and arrow in most games, guns here), while Fortefighter is just a traditional warrior.

Mag_Launcher
Oct 16, 2006, 12:27 AM
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=20&111

Much more relevant. With pictures, if text doesn't make you fully understand it.

Cross
Oct 16, 2006, 12:29 AM
Whether you're a Force wanting to use a bazooka or a Fortefighter wanting to use a Double Saber is irrelevant - it's not what the class is made for. You're under the impression that a Fortefighter is supposed to be a 'better' fighter and that using a Figunner is some sort of penalty, when it's just not true. They're built to excel in different areas of melee combat, with Figunner having a couple more options for Ranged fighting and generally more quick-hitting melee weapons, and Fortefighters getting (almost) exclusive access to the most heinously powerful (ATP-wise) melee weapon in the game, and generally being about being an ATP powerhouse instead of a combo master.
For that matter, Fortefighters have a higher ATP to begin with. If Figunners get stronger weapons, and Fortefighters have a stronger sword-arm behind the weapon, chances are they're going to end up about equally proficient anyway. I fail to see the problem.

Even if Figunners do end up being signifigantly better at using Twin Sabers, that's only a good thing. If Fortefighters were just the be-all, end-all of everything melee, there's no reason to even have hybrid classes in the game. Given the choice between 'this class is good at these melee things but if you want to be the best at other melee things you need to pick a different class' and 'this class is hands down the best at every melee things and this class is worse in every area with respect to melee but they've also got some ranged options but they're explicitly worse in every ranged area than the class that specialized in everything having to do with ranged combat', it's a no-brainer.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:36 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:29, Cross wrote:
Whether you're a Force wanting to use a bazooka or a Fortefighter wanting to use a Double Saber is irrelevant - it's not what the class is made for. You're under the impression that a Fortefighter is supposed to be a 'better' fighter and that using a Figunner is some sort of penalty, when it's just not true. They're built to excel in different areas of melee combat, with Figunner having a couple more options for Ranged fighting and generally more quick-hitting melee weapons, and Fortefighters getting (almost) exclusive access to the most heinously powerful (ATP-wise) melee weapon in the game, and generally being about being an ATP powerhouse instead of a combo master.
For that matter, Fortefighters have a higher ATP to begin with. If Figunners get stronger weapons, and Fortefighters have a stronger sword-arm behind the weapon, chances are they're going to end up about equally proficient anyway. I fail to see the problem.

Even if Figunners do end up being signifigantly better at using Twin Sabers, that's only a good thing. If Fortefighters were just the be-all, end-all of everything melee, there's no reason to even have hybrid classes in the game. Given the choice between 'this class is good at these melee things but if you want to be the best at other melee things you need to pick a different class' and 'this class is hands down the best at every melee things and this class is worse in every area with respect to melee but they've also got some ranged options but they're explicitly worse in every ranged area than the class that specialized in everything having to do with ranged combat', it's a no-brainer.



I'm too lazy to respond to everything you said, but technically, fortefighters ARE the end-all melee fighters. The bonus to being a figunner is the higher use of ranged weapons. Ranged, not melee, so they've already given up power in the melee area.

Honestly, all I'm complaining about is that I don't get to use the particular weapons I wanted to as a fortefighter. It's not a huge deal either way.

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 12:36 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:26, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:24, MaximusLight wrote:
No problem also the most direct topic on this I could find on this site is here, in case anyone would like to see it without to much looking:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120512&forum=20&163



Mm? He says fortefighters get S rank in twin sabers.. I wonder which source of information is correct.

Edit: The info on that post actually seems to make more sense than what I've seen before, so I'm hoping that's the correct one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 22:27 ]</font>


This is the same source as PSU pedia and several of their people posted the same thing so I tand to think it is fairly reliable, I would like to know what your other source of info is though?

Thanks Mag_Launcher for finding that I couldn't remeber the topic name.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MaximusLight on 2006-10-15 22:37 ]</font>

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:38 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:36, MaximusLight wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:26, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:24, MaximusLight wrote:
No problem also the most direct topic on this I could find on this site is here, in case anyone would like to see it without to much looking:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120512&forum=20&163



Mm? He says fortefighters get S rank in twin sabers.. I wonder which source of information is correct.

Edit: The info on that post actually seems to make more sense than what I've seen before, so I'm hoping that's the correct one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 22:27 ]</font>


This is the same source as PSU pedia and several of their people posted the same thing so I tand to think it is fairly reliable, I would like to know what your other source of info is though?



This is:



On 2006-10-15 22:27, Mag_Launcher wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=20&111

Much more relevant. With pictures, if text doesn't make you fully understand it.

-Shimarisu-
Oct 16, 2006, 12:46 AM
On 2006-10-15 21:44, Elleranda wrote:


ME WANT BE FORTEIGHTER. DEY SMASH GOOD AND SKIN OF METAL. ME WANT USE DUAL SABER, BUT TWIN CLAW BETTER FOR ME. FIGUNNER USE WEAPON ME WANT USE, BUT DEY NO SMASH SO GOOD AND SKIN NOT SO METAL. IT IS PREDICAMENT.


Yeah, your speech patterns here suit your line of thought to a tee.

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 12:48 AM
Ummm.... they seem to say the same thing as psupedia...
Checks Expert Classes Requirements thread...
... strange....

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:51 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:46, -Shimarisu- wrote:


On 2006-10-15 21:44, Elleranda wrote:


ME WANT BE FORTEIGHTER. DEY SMASH GOOD AND SKIN OF METAL. ME WANT USE DUAL SABER, BUT TWIN CLAW BETTER FOR ME. FIGUNNER USE WEAPON ME WANT USE, BUT DEY NO SMASH SO GOOD AND SKIN NOT SO METAL. IT IS PREDICAMENT.


Yeah, your speech patterns here suit your line of thought to a tee.



Funny though, as there seems to be a lot of people as upset about it as I am.

And judging by the person you've decided to idolize in your signature... well, let's just say you're probably not one of the world's best people.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 22:52 ]</font>

Blackwaltz-R
Oct 16, 2006, 12:53 AM
Don't you hate it when a game makes you practice critical thinking? nothing makes life more of a bitch than critical choices. Life must be a huge bitch for those of you despise critical thinking since their presented to you all the time throughout life, I truly sincerely and unsarcastically feel for you.

>.>

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 12:57 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:53, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Don't you hate it when a game makes you practice critical thinking? nothing makes life more of a bitch than critical choices. Life must be a huge bitch for those of you despise critical thinking since their presented to you all the time throughout life, I truly sincerely and unsarcastically feel for you.

>.>



Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.

-Shimarisu-
Oct 16, 2006, 01:00 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:51, Elleranda wrote:

And judging by the person you've decided to idolize in your signature... well, let's just say you're probably not one of the world's best people.



Idolise? He said that in a game I was in and I thought it was freaking well stupid so I put it in my sig.

You think this makes him look good?

edit: Also I changed to Fighgunner, hell I RAISED fighgunner without a thought for double saber, but after all the whining and bleating fortefighters (WHO ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE THE BEST ATP AND SEE NO OTHER OPTION TO PLAY AS) are doing over it I'm buying one. I probably won't use it much. They are really crap, I think. Also they look silly.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-10-15 23:03 ]</font>

Hajile
Oct 16, 2006, 01:02 AM
The PSU class system is way more flexible then the PSO class system so i dunno what your complaing about , meh you must've expected some broken PSObb shyt on PSU also.

(EX: FOnewman with Excalibur melee)

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:03 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:51, Elleranda wrote:

And judging by the person you've decided to idolize in your signature... well, let's just say you're probably not one of the world's best people.



Idolise? He said that in a game I was in and I thought it was freaking well stupid so I put it in my sig.

You think this makes him look good?



Generally, people don't quote people in their signatures to make them look bad, but I suppose it can go either way.

But, hey, if you don't like him either, let's not fight.

DrewSeleski
Oct 16, 2006, 01:05 AM
Let's all smile in happy sunshine land
:)
(:
:)
(:
:)
(:
:)

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 01:07 AM
hmmm.... this is just a game so even if this is correct I'll just go with what I want, but ST seams to be messing around with these classes quite a bit...

Blackwaltz-R
Oct 16, 2006, 01:08 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:53, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Don't you hate it when a game makes you practice critical thinking? nothing makes life more of a bitch than critical choices. Life must be a huge bitch for those of you despise critical thinking since their presented to you all the time throughout life, I truly sincerely and unsarcastically feel for you.

>.>



Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



Your semantics and avoiding/missing of my point means shit to me. The point is you have 2 choices with their ups and downs, if people can't deal with that concept then they should kill themselves.

Weak
Oct 16, 2006, 01:10 AM
You people take this shit too seriously.

Christ.

Cigaro
Oct 16, 2006, 01:10 AM
On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:
Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



I don't mean to be a dick, but that's kind of what you get for making plans before the content is even released.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:11 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:08, Blackwaltz-R wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:53, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Don't you hate it when a game makes you practice critical thinking? nothing makes life more of a bitch than critical choices. Life must be a huge bitch for those of you despise critical thinking since their presented to you all the time throughout life, I truly sincerely and unsarcastically feel for you.

>.>



Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



Your semantics and avoiding/missing of my point means shit to me. The point is you have 2 choices with their ups and downs, if people can't deal with that concept then they should kill themselves.



Who's fucking crying and bleeding over this? You think people are sitting here going "OH GOD, DUAL SABERS OR DUAL DAGGERS!? DUAL SABERS OR DUAL DAGGERS!? JESUS CHRIST, I'LL DIE IF I DON'T DECIDE!"?

It's just a complaint I wanted to discuss with others and did so, and it's a valid complaint at that.

Go find somewhere else to be an ass. This is the internet, there's billions of other opportunities.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:13 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:10, Cigaro wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:
Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



I don't mean to be a dick, but that's kind of what you get for making plans before the content is even released.



Mm, true, but when you've played through PSO's several different versions, you kind of stop trying to expect anything different besides a few lights and bobbles.

Weak
Oct 16, 2006, 01:15 AM
This post isn't solving anything.

The fact is, Fortefighters have a specific set of weapons that they use, and you're going to have to use them.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:17 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:15, Weak wrote:
This post isn't solving anything.

The fact is, Fortefighters have a specific set of weapons that they use, and you're going to have to use them.



Gee, really, doc? This has been settled already on the first or second page. I'm just dealing with the people that want to drag on the conversation.

Cigaro
Oct 16, 2006, 01:17 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:13, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:10, Cigaro wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:
Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



I don't mean to be a dick, but that's kind of what you get for making plans before the content is even released.



Mm, true, but when you've played through PSO's several different versions, you kind of stop trying to expect anything different besides a few lights and bobbles.



I mean, I was fully planning on being a fortefighter based on the info I had seen, but it was changed to what it is now, and I've had to change my plans. I prefer to just go along with the flow instead of setting my heart so fully into one thing.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:20 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:20, Weak wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:17, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:15, Weak wrote:
This post isn't solving anything.

The fact is, Fortefighters have a specific set of weapons that they use, and you're going to have to use them.



Gee, really, doc? This has been settled already on the first or second page. I'm just dealing with the people that want to drag on the conversation.



Wow.



What can I say? I find myself bored while counting the days to PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 23:21 ]</font>

Weak
Oct 16, 2006, 01:20 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:17, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:15, Weak wrote:
This post isn't solving anything.

The fact is, Fortefighters have a specific set of weapons that they use, and you're going to have to use them.



Gee, really, doc? This has been settled already on the first or second page. I'm just dealing with the people that want to drag on the conversation.



Wow.

Blackwaltz-R
Oct 16, 2006, 01:21 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:11, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:08, Blackwaltz-R wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:53, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Don't you hate it when a game makes you practice critical thinking? nothing makes life more of a bitch than critical choices. Life must be a huge bitch for those of you despise critical thinking since their presented to you all the time throughout life, I truly sincerely and unsarcastically feel for you.

>.>



Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



Your semantics and avoiding/missing of my point means shit to me. The point is you have 2 choices with their ups and downs, if people can't deal with that concept then they should kill themselves.



Who's fucking crying and bleeding over this? You think people are sitting here going "OH GOD, DUAL SABERS OR DUAL DAGGERS!? DUAL SABERS OR DUAL DAGGERS!? JESUS CHRIST, I'LL DIE IF I DON'T DECIDE!"?

It's just a complaint I wanted to discuss with others and did so, and it's a valid complaint at that.

Go find somewhere else to be an ass. This is the internet, there's billions of other opportunities.



typical to try and blur the lines between a complaint and a discussion. you went from semantics to neuoriticism, you complain about my comment with semantics now your using the opposing mindset to try and validate yourself? Get. Help.

Asuri
Oct 16, 2006, 01:22 AM
well all i have to say is thank god for class diversity, i hate when all ppl can use same weps

Cigaro
Oct 16, 2006, 01:22 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:21, Elleranda wrote:
Edit: God dammit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-15 23:21 ]</font>


You'll have that.

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 01:23 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:21, Blackwaltz-R wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:11, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:08, Blackwaltz-R wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:53, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
Don't you hate it when a game makes you practice critical thinking? nothing makes life more of a bitch than critical choices. Life must be a huge bitch for those of you despise critical thinking since their presented to you all the time throughout life, I truly sincerely and unsarcastically feel for you.

>.>



Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



Your semantics and avoiding/missing of my point means shit to me. The point is you have 2 choices with their ups and downs, if people can't deal with that concept then they should kill themselves.



Who's fucking crying and bleeding over this? You think people are sitting here going "OH GOD, DUAL SABERS OR DUAL DAGGERS!? DUAL SABERS OR DUAL DAGGERS!? JESUS CHRIST, I'LL DIE IF I DON'T DECIDE!"?

It's just a complaint I wanted to discuss with others and did so, and it's a valid complaint at that.

Go find somewhere else to be an ass. This is the internet, there's billions of other opportunities.



typical to try and blur the lines between a complaint and a discussion. you went from semantics to neuoriticism, you complain about my comment with semantics now your using the opposing mindset to try and validate yourself? Get. Help.



Alright that's enough if either of you keeps up this pointless fight I will report this.

Asuri
Oct 16, 2006, 01:24 AM
sry for double post

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:24 AM
typical to try and blur the lines between a complaint and a discussion. you went from semantics to neuoriticism, you complain about my comment with semantics now your using the opposing mindset to try and validate yourself? Get. Help.

You make me smile, you know that, darling? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 01:30 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:24, Asuri wrote:
sry for double post



don't worry about it, for future reference though you can delete your posts when you go to edit them by chicking on the button beneath your posts.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:32 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:30, MaximusLight wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:24, Asuri wrote:
sry for double post



don't worry about it, for future reference though you can delete your posts when you go to edit them by chicking on the button beneath your posts.



Oh, duh. Thanks.

Blackwaltz-R
Oct 16, 2006, 01:33 AM
You make me smile, you know that, darling? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


zha?

*confounded*

Zorafim
Oct 16, 2006, 01:33 AM
See, my problem is I wanted to use both dual daggers and a spear on the same class. Now I'll have to switch to another one to use the other weapon. This contributes absolutely nothing to the topic.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:37 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:33, Zorafim wrote:
See, my problem is I wanted to use both dual daggers and a spear on the same class. Now I'll have to switch to another one to use the other weapon. This contributes absolutely nothing to the topic.



Sure it does! The frustration of needing to switch contributes, as this is really just what this thread was about. It probably IS the best this way, but frustrating for some of us none the less, and we'll adapt anyway.

Blackwaltz-R
Oct 16, 2006, 01:40 AM
Its better than having to make new characters altogether and it makes meseta worth more.

Chronosv2
Oct 16, 2006, 01:43 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:13, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:10, Cigaro wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:
Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



I don't mean to be a dick, but that's kind of what you get for making plans before the content is even released.



Mm, true, but when you've played through PSO's several different versions, you kind of stop trying to expect anything different besides a few lights and bobbles.



I understand what you mean completely, but early on it was announced that PSU was going to be a completely new game. As such, it would make a little bit of sense to believe that the slate was, for all intents and purposes, wiped clean. I've played strict Hunter through every PSO iteration (hell, I only used Sil'fer in Ep3 because she was the only character I was good with). This time, though, I'm going with a FiGunner, because it sounds like a cool path, and because I'm ready for a change, though slight as it may be. I understand the frustration to have to choose, but as I see it it was bound to happen sometime, and that time is now. (*reads his last sentence...* er...Captain Obvious, away!)

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 01:46 AM
On 2006-10-15 23:43, Chronosv2 wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:13, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-15 23:10, Cigaro wrote:


On 2006-10-15 22:57, Elleranda wrote:
Cirtical thinking? There's no critical thinking to this at all. You either get this, or you get this. 'Scuse those of us that have played PSO and never had requirements like this before and our plans are thrown off because of it.



I don't mean to be a dick, but that's kind of what you get for making plans before the content is even released.



Mm, true, but when you've played through PSO's several different versions, you kind of stop trying to expect anything different besides a few lights and bobbles.



I understand what you mean completely, but early on it was announced that PSU was going to be a completely new game. As such, it would make a little bit of sense to believe that the slate was, for all intents and purposes, wiped clean. I've played strict Hunter through every PSO iteration (hell, I only used Sil'fer in Ep3 because she was the only character I was good with). This time, though, I'm going with a FiGunner, because it sounds like a cool path, and because I'm ready for a change, though slight as it may be. I understand the frustration to have to choose, but as I see it it was bound to happen sometime, and that time is now. (*reads his last sentence...* er...Captain Obvious, away!)



Mmm.. Figunner DOES sound cool, but I don't know. Those extra melee stats on the fortefighter calls to me.. BECKONS me, even.

But hey, at least I can just switch classes to figunner whenever I want to.

physic
Oct 16, 2006, 03:18 AM
I agree with the op, it kind of sucks and seems wrong that if you want to melee your going to pick a gun balanced chr, ideally they present hunter as being a master of melee weapons. now they rework that to make people actually desire to play fighgunner. Really having ranger or gun skills has little to nothing to do with whether you should be able to use twin sabers or whatever. But thats the way they wanted to slice the cake.

It is however a science that directly contradicts the way the present the hunter class, and even seems opposite the idea of specializing in hunter skills, its exactly the same as if the weakened specific teks for forteforces and made wartekkers be better at those spells, at the least it would be something that would make you go wtf.

Those he say hes a fool for thinking this way, i say yall are fools for not thinking that someone who specializes in a specific thing shouldnt be the best at it, regardless of how they want to switch it up to make other jobs apealing

FenixStryk
Oct 16, 2006, 03:27 AM
Sure, only certain classes can get S-rank weapons, but don't fret just yet; you can try each class out then pick which weapons you'll major in. Just think of those A-rank weapons as your minors. I mean, sure it's not S-rank, but you can still USE them!

Ninpo_Tamashii
Oct 16, 2006, 03:49 AM
I think it was due to the fact that in PSO you had people use their mags to alter their stats to make themselves Hybrids. When PSO episode I & II launched on game cube, I was one of the first people to take a Force and Blatantly go agasint its inital Intention, to be a pure magic/support damage dealing character, and for Months I was here in these boards battling with people. I left and came back a year later to see people doing the exact same thing with their FOmar/marl's as I did with mine way before.

Diffrent classes, Hunters, rangers, each of them if you wanted *could* have specialized or utlized an alternative method of fighting, and I belive The FOmar and HUnuwearl, and RAmarl were steps towards that. Sonic team I see wanted to expand on that somehow whilst provideing a reason to use each variation.

Me? I am pissed My Soul Eater/Banish isn't going to be in the game...but there's nothing I can do about it. It might be time for me to make that HUnewman(Wartecher FTW~~) I've been bytching about wanting to make since Dreamcast Ver. II Cus I have a hang-up on using female characters online http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Anyways, They seem to be wanting to go with a theme with the FIgunner, and one with the ForteFighter. One is brute force, the other finnese. What I hope is, one day there are going to be some rares that break the laws of weapon profeciencies and have only stat requirements.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the return of my precious Scythes, I am willing to be they will be classified as a Photon Axe, and possibly equippable by any class with high enough ATP or something of the sort. Some rare double sabers may wield this same option, so you can always keep your fingers crossed.

here's one towards wishful thinking :/

(and if the Scythes do re-appear I"m sooooo re-making a FOmar, lol.)

Mah 10 cents.

Tycho
Oct 16, 2006, 03:58 AM
I think too many people are complaining about [insert class they like] is not overpowered enough. When you're "gimped" either way, that means the game is well-balanced!

moorebounce
Oct 16, 2006, 04:01 AM
This is for the people in the cheap seats. Its setup this way so you can try every class and/or see the difference between each class if you want. If would be borring if everybody could do everything. You wouldn't really need help. Besides some players like to fight and some like to give the fighters support. That would be like all the Armed forces in America being only one branch. Us Americans know how to fight and know you need different branches doing different things to support each other. Thats why we have the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.

Some people on these boards don't get it and know nothing about fighting with team work. Even Michael Jordon didn't start winning until he figured out he couldn't do everything himself.

Ninpo_Tamashii
Oct 16, 2006, 04:09 AM
On 2006-10-16 02:01, moorebounce wrote:
Us Americans know how to fight and know you need different branches doing different things to support each other. Thats why we have the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.



Too bad certain individuals in Leadership of this country don't really realize this, but that's another topic all togeather~~

But These split classes allow the presence of the hybrid to have *point*! and the specialist to feel like a specialist. In all honesty, go with what you're most comfortable. Player Skill>Gear in most cases. You can use an inferior weapon and with *SKILL* out do people on a constant basis. As long as you are having fun, who cares? Besides, maybe you will get to feel more unique as a Fortefighter, due to everyone and their grandmother wanting to re-make their BKB HUmar from PSO~~ Uniqueness is always a good thing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Mah 10 Cents

Shade-
Oct 16, 2006, 09:50 AM
Have you ever heard of balance? Online games can't have uber god classes, it just isn't fair, and that's what you are asking for. You want to be able to equip the strongest of any weapon at any time, and have the best stats in the game to back it up. Dosen't that sound a tad overpowered. The only melee weapon a fortefighter can't use is the double saber, the only melee weapon a fightgunner cant use is the axe. Take your pick, And furthermore, dont cry about "only and A rank". If you look at S rank as a boost to A rank instead of a A rank as a gimped S rank, every class looks better, so why not do that?

Oh, and just so you know, I understand your pain, I just wanted a class that could use twin daggers, axes, and crossbows, and dual handguns, that's really all I wanted, 4 weapon classes, yet it's an impossible combination, so now I too have to decide.

Valkayree
Oct 16, 2006, 10:02 AM
On 2006-10-15 21:17, Ryven wrote:
Who's to say you won't find a really good set of A rank Dual Sabers? I know what you mean about FFXI, if you didn't have a SH, Snipers/Verener's etc., you were labeled as gimp. But PSU is much different, I don't think people will be as picky and crazy about what you use. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.



Absolutely true. The faster pace and all the numbers flashing up doesn't allow the time for hypercritical idiots to analyze your damage dealing. People only notice when big numbers go up, or when they don't have resta... ^_^

Fazeshot
Oct 16, 2006, 10:21 AM
god these forums have turned into the World Of Warcraft Forums..

Genobee
Oct 16, 2006, 10:31 AM
On 2006-10-15 21:14, Elleranda wrote:
I heard that only certain expert classes can S rank in certain weapons and even classes like fortefighter can't use all melee weapons! Is this true? It can't be true... But in my heart, I know it is, because this game was looking too good to be true. Sonic Team was bound to do something stupid at one point.

Sure, this adds "variety" to classes. But you know what it REALLY does? It makes it so you can't use whatever weapons you want because you're gimping yourself otherwise. You're a fortefighter, huh? Well, say goodbye to those dreams of dual sabers, because you only get A rank in those, and *S* rank in dual claws! Unless, of course, you don't mind being less effective...

It's like FFXI all over again. Sigh.



Actualy thats better, How is that fair to people who are full hunter? Great he gets my swords and he uses magic.

it's like raiding with hunters all over again

FrogKicker
Oct 16, 2006, 10:38 AM
Want to do everything eh? Get over it. I love how it's set up, in that you have to switch jobs to use different weps.

Seems like more and more people are wanting some kind of god-mode. Oh noes!!! I can't use teh saberz!!!! Heres a simple fix for you folks, go to Wal-Mart, buy a bottle, and continue to be a baby.

Candor
Oct 16, 2006, 10:45 AM
On 2006-10-16 08:21, Fazeshot wrote:
god these forums have turned into the World Of Warcraft Forums..


What, already?! Give it some time, I mean there's still some confusion as to how the game plays exactly. Also, i pray that these forums never turn into...that.

However, i am curious if you know about the 36 PA limit, it won't affect Fortefighters at all (with only 3 skills per weapon, 1 i think isn't in game yet so currently 2 per).

mogshaz
Oct 16, 2006, 10:48 AM
On 2006-10-16 02:01, moorebounce wrote:
This is for the people in the cheap seats. Its setup this way so you can try every class and/or see the difference between each class if you want. If would be borring if everybody could do everything. You wouldn't really need help. Besides some players like to fight and some like to give the fighters support. That would be like all the Armed forces in America being only one branch. Us Americans know how to fight and know you need different branches doing different things to support each other. Thats why we have the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.

Some people on these boards don't get it and know nothing about fighting with team work. Even Michael Jordon didn't start winning until he figured out he couldn't do everything himself.



You forgot Coast Guard. There are 5 branches to the military.

On Topic: I like the balancing it makes sense. Why should everyone do everything? Whats the point of having different classes then.

physic
Oct 16, 2006, 12:48 PM
you people talk about balancing, but what made you think that doublesabers are so great they would be broken on a fortefighter? The truth is, they wouldnt be. They are simply melee weaps that deal dmg, not the highest dmg at that. they hit multi, but, so do a bunch of stuff. Its simply a case to make fighgunner more appealing, there is nothing so great about doublesabers that they would seem broken in the hands of a fortefighter. They have other weapons with similar properties. Honestly they simply like the idea of making doublesabers for a class many people didnt care about. Its not so much about having broken classes, as much as making fighgunner more appealing. They could have simply given an A to fortefighters, but im guessing they felt this class needed specific attention for more love

Mwabwetumba
Oct 16, 2006, 12:49 PM
Well, it sealed the deal for me^^
Planned to be a ForteFighter, but wherever the doublesaber is, I will follow!

Cause_I_Own_U
Oct 16, 2006, 01:24 PM
If there was a class that could use all weapons or most of them they would all have to be A rank except maybe one for balancing



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-16 11:25 ]</font>

Cross
Oct 16, 2006, 01:31 PM
On 2006-10-16 01:18, physic wrote:
I agree with the op, it kind of sucks and seems wrong that if you want to melee your going to pick a gun balanced chr, ideally they present hunter as being a master of melee weapons. now they rework that to make people actually desire to play fighgunner. Really having ranger or gun skills has little to nothing to do with whether you should be able to use twin sabers or whatever. But thats the way they wanted to slice the cake.


Figunners are not 'gun balanced characters'. Go take a good, long look at their full set of stats and weapon proficiencies. They're not just Hunters crossed with Rangers - they are three parts Hunter and one part Ranger. They only have access to level 20 Bullet Arts, and their gun access is almost entirely limited to one-handed guns, at A-Rank - Fortefighters, by the way, also have A-Rank proficiency with Handguns, which are overall the most preferred one-handed gun.
The only real Ranger-like area where Figunners actually outshine Fortefighters is in using Dual Handguns. And they're "only" A-Rank at using those.

Fortefighters aren't 'gimped' as melee characters because they don't have S-Ranks in every single weapon type - Figunners are gimped as ranged characters, since they can only use half of the total number of Ranger weapons, don't have any of those proficiencies at S-Rank, and generally have the poorest selection of guns of any class on the Ranger tree.

Fortefighters aren't "ideally" supposed to be "masters of melee weapons", they're "ideally" supposed to be "a viable class choice with a distinct playstyle and balanced advantages and disadvantages compared to each of the other six Expert Classes".
And they are.

Scirrocco
Oct 16, 2006, 01:42 PM
On 2006-10-16 11:24, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
If there was a class that could use all weapons or most of them they would all have to be A rank except maybe one for balancing



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-16 11:25 ]</font>


There are and they do. Protransers can use most weapons, at least the best ones from each class, but they are all capped at A.

I'm also happy with the way things are set up. Serioulsy, if you dream of a double saber, roll a fighunner. If you're a hunter, dream of something better, like a sword or axe!

ShinMaruku
Oct 16, 2006, 01:51 PM
This ain't an MMO so set your philosophy about in a diffrnet way and enjoy the game or you can break it.

Natrokos
Oct 16, 2006, 01:54 PM
This isn't FFXI. In FFXI if you had 1 weapon to use....(If you were REAAAALLLY lucky 2) here, you have alot more....Look at Wartecher.....No special weapon and limited to Srank dagger/t-daggers. I for one will be going t-sabers and t-claws and i'm sure alot of other people will too.

physic
Oct 16, 2006, 02:54 PM
Figunners are not 'gun balanced characters'. Go take a good, long look at their full set of stats and weapon proficiencies. They're not just Hunters crossed with Rangers - they are three parts Hunter and one part Ranger. They only have access to level 20 Bullet Arts, and their gun access is almost entirely limited to one-handed guns, at A-Rank - Fortefighters, by the way, also have A-Rank proficiency with Handguns, which are overall the most preferred one-handed gun.
The only real Ranger-like area where Figunners actually outshine Fortefighters is in using Dual Handguns. And they're "only" A-Rank at using those.

Fortefighters aren't 'gimped' as melee characters because they don't have S-Ranks in every single weapon type - Figunners are gimped as ranged characters, since they can only use half of the total number of Ranger weapons, don't have any of those proficiencies at S-Rank, and generally have the poorest selection of guns of any class on the Ranger tree.

Fortefighters aren't "ideally" supposed to be "masters of melee weapons", they're "ideally" supposed to be "a viable class choice with a distinct playstyle and balanced advantages and disadvantages compared to each of the other six Expert Classes".


"Fortefighter This type is for those who specialize in melee combat." psupedia, and not the only place i have seen similar definitions
"Fighgunner This type combines the abilities of a Hunter with a Ranger."

so uh yeah by the way the define the chrs, yes forte are supposed to be melee masters, and figunner is supposed to be a combination, or hybrid.

It is true that they apparently trying not to make the middle chrs a combination but in fact a different type of class, the question is, is this as you would expect from the a concentration in hunter. Why does being able to use guns make you better at using a double edged weapon, or two swords? how does me getting my RA to whatever level increase that.
It is already understood this is the way it is, and its highly unlikely that it will change, but its valid to say wtf, my chr who is supposed to be a melee master cant use a melee weapon.

they also can use xbows, and machine guns, which are some of the better stuff for a person who wants to be both hu and ra, since this is most the 1hand guns, and thus used with thier melee weapons.

So yeah the point? Yeah they reworked the chrs so they each are different and have thier own values, however the old idea that they presented, with the definitions, is not the case, it is no longer true that you pick figunner if you want to be a ranger+hunter, or a fortehunter if you want to be pure hunter, So dont be surprised when people are like wtf.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: physic on 2006-10-16 12:56 ]</font>

Vhex
Oct 16, 2006, 03:04 PM
Does this really matter? This new system is supposed to incorporate your custom battle styles. If you want to use a Doublesaber, become a figunnger. It's that simple. Each class can't all have the same weapons. Variety is the spice of life and it also makes the character classes unique. As a fortefighter you don't have much to complain about, seeing as how ffs have the largest selection of S ranks of any expert class.

ShadowDragon28
Oct 16, 2006, 03:10 PM
Excellently stated Physic.

Looks like I'll have to level Ranger class to lvl 3 (even though i don't care for guns) to get FiGunner. I'll be switching from ForteFighter to FiGunner and vise-versa as depending on what's needed for particular areas/missions/quests.

I'll be one of the few Figunners that *don't* use guns..... I happen to like double sabers. Can't wait to see what the all the S-rank level Double Sabers look like.

The double saber haters need to calm down. No need to resort to flaming a weapon type in a videogame or the players that use them.

It's not the weapon that matters per se; it's the skill and maturity of the player controlling their character using the weapon that matters. jeez.

klunka
Oct 16, 2006, 03:47 PM
You know, having long range characters specialize in finesse based dual wielding weapons is by no means a no aspect to gaming. If you look at classic RPGs, the dual wielders are almost always a ranger type character. I see them as finesse weapons. Finesse is more properly presented in this game as ATA and EVP. Those are Ranger stats.

Fortefighters are brutes. Jumping into the middle of a huge battle swinging a huge weapon and destroying as many things as possible with single swings. Hence there affinity for larger weapons like swords and axes. If you really want your dual fix, you'll have to settle for claws or fists cause a brute likes to get it's hands dirty

Figunners are style fighters. Wear an enemy down with some pistols, then when they get to close, beat them with style and grace as opposed to strength. Take out those twin sabers and dance around your enemy while piercing his most vulnerable points.

I dunno, that's just the way I always pictured it. Made sense to me

Cross
Oct 16, 2006, 04:17 PM
On 2006-10-16 12:54, physic wrote:
"Fortefighter This type is for those who specialize in melee combat." psupedia, and not the only place i have seen similar definitions
"Fighgunner This type combines the abilities of a Hunter with a Ranger."
Oh, well then it's a good thing PSUPedia is an official, Sega-created source of information instead of a repository of information gathered by the game's community, including all of that community's speculation and opinion.

Oh, wait...


so uh yeah by the way the define the chrs, yes forte are supposed to be melee masters, and figunner is supposed to be a combination, or hybrid.
No, by the way you think they've defined the classes (which flies in the face of all real evidence to the contrary) they are supposed to be "melee masters". By Sega's definition, the only one that matters, they are a class that has an extension of the basic Hunter's stats - excelling in ATP and DFP - and specializes in high-powered melee weapons.

Figunners are supposed to be melee characters with rudimentary ranged abilities, that have stats arranged as an extension of the basic Hunter class along with some perks from Rangers - Second highest ATP and DFP, along with the third-highest ATA and slightly higher END than non-Ranger-based classes - with a specialization in quick-hitting melee weapons.

You can't just universally say 'melee is melee' - Daggers play extremely differently from Swords, and Double Sabers play extremely differently from Photon Axes. There's no contradiction in the roles of the classes aside from ones you've invented with your own misconceptions about what the classes 'should' be.


It is true that they apparently trying not to make the middle chrs a combination but in fact a different type of class, the question is, is this as you would expect from the a concentration in hunter. Why does being able to use guns make you better at using a double edged weapon, or two swords? how does me getting my RA to whatever level increase that.
If you want to hurt somebody with a giant club or a heavy axe, the main skill you're going to need is being strong enough to swing the damn thing hard enough to do damage. If you aim for the wrist and hit the elbow, you're still basically doing what you wanted to, but if you're not strong enough to swing the weapon hard enough to break the elbow, it's not going to help you.
If you want to hurt somebody with a pair of sharp pencils, the main skill you're going to need is being fast and accurate enough to poke them where it hurts. If you aim to poke somebody in the eye, you need to be accurate enough to hit the eye, and as long as you can poke a bit with it, you're fine - if you miss and hit the shoulder, it doesn't matter if you're strong enough to drive the pencil through a wall; you won't be hurting them as badly as poking it through their eye.

Fortefighters are melee characters based around big, heavy-damage weapons like Axes. They use weapons that combine with extremely high ATP. Figunners are melee characters based around hitting people fast and accurately with smaller weapons. They use weapons that combine with high ATP and high ATA.


they also can use xbows, and machine guns, which are some of the better stuff for a person who wants to be both hu and ra, since this is most the 1hand guns, and thus used with thier melee weapons.
All of the weapons they can use are short-range, low-powered guns (although, in fairness, I haven't seen a Crossbow in action). Basically, all of those fill the same role as a supplement to a 'main' melee weapon, and a Fortefighter with a Saber and Handgun is basically just as good at range as a Figunner with a Handgun or Mechgun.

The only 'Ranger' part of Figunner is being able to use Dual Guns, and since (by your own definition) being restricted to A-Rank in Dual Guns (and Handguns/Crossbows/Mechguns, while we're at it) makes Figunner a 'gimped' ranged character, they're only there to provide a little bit of mid-range support to a Figunner's primary melee role.


So yeah the point? Yeah they reworked the chrs so they each are different and have thier own values, however the old idea that they presented, with the definitions, is not the case, it is no longer true that you pick figunner if you want to be a ranger+hunter, or a fortehunter if you want to be pure hunter, So dont be surprised when people are like wtf.

The 'old idea' they presented was exactly the same as what they've ended up doing. It's not Sega's fault that people took 'A class made from Hunters and Rangers' to mean 'A mediocre Ranger fused to a mediocre Hunter to end up with a character that isn't really good at anything'. Figunners are still exactly what Sega said they would be right from the start - it's just that people jumped to conclusions about what they meant before they gave us much real information.

Jasam
Oct 16, 2006, 04:18 PM
My complaint is that most of the weapons I like are split in HALF between the two classes.
And even if you get a double saber, you can't use level 30 PA's... ever... with them.

The other big complaint, is that 90% of people are seeing Figunner just for its meele capabilies. This shows that those who want to go meele are finding it very hard to choose between the stronger meele class and the weaker but with cooler weapons hybrid.

Parn
Oct 16, 2006, 04:22 PM
Make that, much weaker. Fortefighter uses weapons that are anywhere from twice to four times as strong as figunners, and come stock with more ATP by default.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 04:26 PM
[Cross's wall of text and quotes here]

Hi, good morning.

See, the problem with your whole damn argument is that you're saying "Oh yeah, Figunners are just as good at fortefighters in melee, except we ALSO get better ranged power!"

So then what's the point of even having a fortefighter if Figunners have things that are just as good, plus something better? You're talking about balance and difference and all those magical subjects, but you're contradicting yourself all the way through.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 04:29 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:22, Parn wrote:
Make that, much weaker. Fortefighter uses weapons that are anywhere from twice to four times as strong as figunners, and come stock with more ATP by default.



I don't really understand how you can say one weapon is stronger than the other. Aren't all weapons supposed to be pretty much balanced in power but are just different? Either way, they still have a lot more ATP by default, like you said.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 04:31 PM
On 2006-10-16 08:38, tr8ergirl wrote:
Want to do everything eh? Get over it. I love how it's set up, in that you have to switch jobs to use different weps.

Seems like more and more people are wanting some kind of god-mode. Oh noes!!! I can't use teh saberz!!!! Heres a simple fix for you folks, go to Wal-Mart, buy a bottle, and continue to be a baby.



Hey! Shaddap. Read the thread before commenting.

Parn
Oct 16, 2006, 04:34 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:29, Elleranda wrote:
I don't really understand how you can say one weapon is stronger than the other. Aren't all weapons supposed to be pretty much balanced in power but are just different? Either way, they still have a lot more ATP by default, like you said.

I can say that because I posted the stats of all the A rank weapons available online on the import in the Expert class thread that I had created, which keeps getting buried under 31419 "XBOX 360 BETA DOESN'T WORK RIGHT LET ME MAKE A BRAND NEW TOPIC ABOUT IT BLAH BLAH BLAH" threads. Look here (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=20&start=30&45#39).

DiosGX
Oct 16, 2006, 04:34 PM
Here's an idea: Just play the game. OMG NOVEL CONCEPT.

If you don't like your weapons change jobs. Boo hoo, get over it.

Openget
Oct 16, 2006, 04:36 PM
This is offtopic, but i love your ytmnd's, parn. (=

Jasam
Oct 16, 2006, 04:40 PM
Its also not a case of "don't like weapon change class"
The S rank weapons are split in two, with double saber off limit to Forte and Axe unaccessable to gunner

Also I would say the average person has 4 types of weapons they would like to speicalise in

In meny people cases, it becomes split between the two classes.

Also of those S rank weapons that fall onto the FiGunner class, you can't use level 30PAs, or have great class ATP. For some people this will mean that their favourte weapon types are very impractical to use.

So "changing class" (which also costs mesta and requires you to level it) is NOT a viable option for a lot of people, as both classes end up with exactly half the main things wanted.

Aberu
Oct 16, 2006, 04:41 PM
I don't particularly care what other people think about me being gimp or not, I care about being cornered to certain weapon types like in FFXI. I care about my own personal efficiency, so this effects me, though I know there's pleanty people who don't care if they deal crap damage as long as they look good doing it.



1. You are under the assumption that some weapons have some huge damage balance issues. You are thinking that a type of weapons have a tendency to have crap damage overall (not counting if they hit multiple targets or weapon speed).

2. You are assuming that people just get weapons to look the way they want to. You can get them for either reason. If you just want your weapon for your max damage and efficiency(as it seems you do), then what is to stop you from picking a class that reflects that?

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 04:45 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:34, Parn wrote:

On 2006-10-16 14:29, Elleranda wrote:
I don't really understand how you can say one weapon is stronger than the other. Aren't all weapons supposed to be pretty much balanced in power but are just different? Either way, they still have a lot more ATP by default, like you said.

I can say that because I posted the stats of all the A rank weapons available online on the import in the Expert class thread that I had created, which keeps getting buried under 31419 "XBOX 360 BETA DOESN'T WORK RIGHT LET ME MAKE A BRAND NEW TOPIC ABOUT IT BLAH BLAH BLAH" threads. Look here (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=20&start=30&45#39).



I don't think you can really look at the stats and simply say which is better, simply because it has higher ATP..

There's AoE swing range, swing speed, accuracey and swing movements to consider and those aren't on paper. I imagine the axe is very slow, very narrow and very hard to use.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 04:47 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:41, Aberu wrote:


I don't particularly care what other people think about me being gimp or not, I care about being cornered to certain weapon types like in FFXI. I care about my own personal efficiency, so this effects me, though I know there's pleanty people who don't care if they deal crap damage as long as they look good doing it.



1. You are under the assumption that some weapons have some huge damage balance issues. You are thinking that a type of weapons have a tendency to have crap damage overall (not counting if they hit multiple targets or weapon speed).

2. You are assuming that people just get weapons to look the way they want to. You can get them for either reason. If you just want your weapon for your max damage and efficiency(as it seems you do), then what is to stop you from picking a class that reflects that?



1. No I'm not. Read my previous post.

2. No I'm not. And I don't just want my weapon for efficiency, I thought that was pretty clear. Also, a LOT of people pick weapons based on how they look.

Oji_Retta
Oct 16, 2006, 04:52 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:17, Cross wrote:

Fortefighters are melee characters based around big,
heavy-damage weapons like Axes. They use weapons that combine with extremely high ATP. Figunners are melee characters based around hitting people fast and accurately with smaller weapons. They use weapons that combine with high ATP and high ATA.




http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l76/DavidPreston/fortefighterfigunner.jpg
Apparently Fortefighters are very good with fast weapons as well seeing as they have A Rank in all of them (I take this to mean they are ALLOWED to focus on fast/smaller weapons). So what you said is bleh. The two classes share all the same melee weapons with inverted ranks as you can see (Figunner has A in heavy melee and Fortefighter has A in quick melee- They are both ALLOWED to focus on heavy weapons or speed oriented weapons respectively). Then Fortefighter has axe (Protransers get it as well) and Figunner has exclusive Double Saber (no other class has it). By the way I am only focusing on the melee aspect of both classes.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Oji_Retta on 2006-10-16 14:56 ]</font>

Jasam
Oct 16, 2006, 05:01 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:52, Oji_Retta wrote:

Apparently Fortefighters are very good with fast weapons as well seeing as they have A Rank in all of them (I take this to mean they are ALLOWED to focus on fast/smaller weapons). So what you said is bleh. The two classes share all the same melee weapons with inverted ranks as you can see (Figunner has A in heavy melee and Fortefighter has A in quick melee). Then Fortefighter has axe (Protransers get it as well) and Figunner has exclusive Double Saber (no other class has it). By the way I am only focusing on the melee aspect of both classes.



Note the concentration on the melee, no one concerned with anything else ¬.¬'

I personly say, give Forte A Rank Double Saber and S rank Twin Sabers, and giver gunner S rank Hand gun/ Duel Hand Guns or some other balencer.

Remember, For those who never make it to the higher levels, A rank is all you will probably ever need.

S Rank concerns are for those thinking towards the higher levels, at which point the enermys could well be strong enough to warrent A rank weaponry to weak to effectivly kill stronger monsters, in which case you could be quite restricted.

Of course, thats a lot of speculation, but what isn't at the moment?

Parn
Oct 16, 2006, 05:05 PM
You know... we can ride this perpetual Merry-Go-Round for another few days... months if you all would like, but it won't change the rankings on the weapons. Fortefighter can't use double sabers. Oh well. If you want them, make a Figunner.

I'm of the opinion that double sabers suck since their ATA makes you see 0s more than I'd like (going behind an enemy isn't always an option), and they look like propellers for a Cessna, but whatever. Maybe I'll change my mind when I see a set that doesn't look ridiculous.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 05:06 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:05, Parn wrote:
You know... we can ride this perpetual Merry-Go-Round for another few days... months if you all would like, but it won't change the rankings on the weapons. Fortefighter can't use double sabers. Oh well. If you want them, make a Figunner.

I'm of the opinion that double sabers suck since their ATA makes you see 0s more than I'd like (going behind an enemy isn't always an option), and they look like propellers for a Cessna, but whatever. Maybe I'll change my mind when I see a set that doesn't look ridiculous.



Oh come on, respond to my post earlier! I brought up some good points!

Oji_Retta
Oct 16, 2006, 05:09 PM
I'm just saying that its bleh anyhow. I agree with your statement Parn. If you really want Double Sabers and don't care for axes, just make a Figunner. And this really can go on for a loooong time. I just felt like making a decent post for once.

Cross
Oct 16, 2006, 05:13 PM
On 2006-10-16 14:26, Elleranda wrote:

[Cross's wall of text and quotes here]

Hi, good morning.

See, the problem with your whole damn argument is that you're saying "Oh yeah, Figunners are just as good at fortefighters in melee, except we ALSO get better ranged power!"

So then what's the point of even having a fortefighter if Figunners have things that are just as good, plus something better? You're talking about balance and difference and all those magical subjects, but you're contradicting yourself all the way through.



No, I'm saying that Figunners have very, very rudimentary ranged power - only Dual Guns, which, while good on a Ranger, tend to be mainly useful for letting a Ranger do what Hunters already can do, namely putting out a bunch of damage at relatively short range.

In exchange for the slight increase in ranged capability, yes, they probably take a slight hit in their overall melee effectiveness, but it doesn't really matter, because their style of melee is much different than a Fortefighter's. They've got weaker weapons that hit quicker, and Double Sabers are quick-hitting and hit a lot of targets - they're all about laying down a dozen hits per combo, even if those hits aren't powerhouses. They've got higher accuracy, meaning that they can much more effectively attack enemies from any direction without worrying about missing. A Figunner can basically attack constantly, and do less damage per swing but keep it going constantly.
Fortefighters do a lot more damage per hit, but don't have that really high accuracy, and their damage comes in a smaller number of hits that do a lot more damage per individual hit - basically, since their accuracy is lower and every hit counts, they're more about getting in behind and then letting loose with a few hits that do a lot of damage. Their damage comes in extremely high bursts, and isn't so constant.

The end result? The amount of damage done is probably about equal between both classes, with the slower, tank-style enemies behind more effectively killed with Fortefighters, and the agile, hard to hit ones being a Figunner's specialty.



On 2006-10-16 14:40, Jasam wrote:
Also of those S rank weapons that fall onto the FiGunner class, you can't use level 30PAs, or have great class ATP. For some people this will mean that their favourte weapon types are very impractical to use.

You're wrong. Figunners can use level 30 melee Photon Arts.
As for "well they can't have awesome ATP http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif", that's about as good an argument as "Well damnit I want to play a Force but why can't I have the highest Defense in the game too?"



On 2006-10-16 14:52, Oji_Retta wrote
Apparently Fortefighters are very good with fast weapons as well seeing as they have A Rank in all of them (I take this to mean they are ALLOWED to focus on fast/smaller weapons). So what you said is bleh. The two classes share all the same melee weapons with inverted ranks as you can see (Figunner has A in heavy melee and Fortefighter has A in quick melee- They are both ALLOWED to focus on heavy weapons or speed oriented weapons respectively). Then Fortefighter has axe (Protransers get it as well) and Figunner has exclusive Double Saber (no other class has it). By the way I am only focusing on the melee aspect of both classes.

Oh, I agree. I'm positive that A-Rank is just fine, and I don't think that Fortefighters are 'gimped' at using Twin Sabers any more than Figunners are 'gimped' at using Handguns. My point was that, even taking their actual specialization into account, both classes are equal, while still being different in terms of their specialized weapons and the way that their stats affect their playstyle.

Jasam
Oct 16, 2006, 05:13 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:05, Parn wrote:
You know... we can ride this perpetual Merry-Go-Round for another few days... months if you all would like, but it won't change the rankings on the weapons. Fortefighter can't use double sabers. Oh well. If you want them, make a Figunner.

I'm of the opinion that double sabers suck since their ATA makes you see 0s more than I'd like (going behind an enemy isn't always an option), and they look like propellers for a Cessna, but whatever. Maybe I'll change my mind when I see a set that doesn't look ridiculous.



Can you stop using that arguement? For anyone who (taking the worst case senario) wishes to use axes and double sabers equaly, it is NOT an option to just make a Figunner.

On a side note, I'm mostly annoyed about not being able to use half of my fav weapons (and in on cases at all) at S Rank on either class.... So I'm completly split now on what I should choose ^-^'

Btw Twins + Class = win ^-^'

Parn
Oct 16, 2006, 05:23 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:06, Elleranda wrote:
Oh come on, respond to my post earlier! I brought up some good points!
Very well.

I assume you've played PSO. What would you take to the battlefield in say, the ruins... a saber, daggers, a partisan, or a sword? I'd wager you'd pick one of the last two, and why? Probably because the latter two make you do considerably more damage. The saber and daggers are faster than the partisan or the sword, but the latter two hit multiple targets. The fact that the sword and partisan swing slower becomes extremely irrelevant.

You'll note that the Fortefighter has S rank in all the multi-hit weapon classes, and has access to the strongest single-hit melee weapons (the claw sets and fists). In terms of pure, raw damage, the fortefighter will blatantly be more powerful. I guarantee that the person wielding a sword will do more damage to the dragon than someone wielding a saber.

It's not all about raw damage, else rangers would be completely worthless. I've found the crowd control based photon arts for weapons that Figunner excels at to be superior, simply because they can be pulled off faster and easier. I'll be playing a Figunner because it fits my playstyle more. And playing off of the last comment in the previous paragraph, the saber wielder will be able to move away after an attack a lot sooner and will generally take a lot less damage.

But yeah, the numbers don't lie.

Jasam
Oct 16, 2006, 05:25 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:13, Cross wrote:



On 2006-10-16 14:40, Jasam wrote:
Also of those S rank weapons that fall onto the FiGunner class, you can't use level 30PAs, or have great class ATP. For some people this will mean that their favourte weapon types are very impractical to use.

You're wrong. Figunners can use level 30 melee Photon Arts.
As for "well they can't have awesome ATP http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif", that's about as good an argument as "Well damnit I want to play a Force but why can't I have the highest Defense in the game too?"


Oh I seem to have had a little bit of mis-information on the Skill Level, that makes a sugnificant diffrence...

Of course, it still comes down to half my fav weapons being split in each class ^-^'

I consider Fortes higher ATP about equal to gunners extra range ability....

Damn... I swear if I end up doing a coing toss...

Parn
Oct 16, 2006, 05:27 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:13, Jasam wrote:
Can you stop using that arguement? For anyone who (taking the worst case senario) wishes to use axes and double sabers equaly, it is NOT an option to just make a Figunner.
By that same token, it's not an option to make a fortefighter either. So then, what are you suggesting?

Cross
Oct 16, 2006, 05:29 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:23, Parn wrote:
You'll note that the Fortefighter has S rank in all the multi-hit weapon classes

Take a look at, uhh... Whatever Lyrise's thread is that should be on or near the front page. Double Sabers can hit up to five targets in one swing, and Claire Sabers (single and twin), assuming there's an S-Rank equivalent for Figunners to take advantage of in addition to the A-Rank ones that Fortefighters can use too, have both a bigger range on their swings, and can hit multiple targets with one swing.
Of course, Claire weapons have really low ATP and Double Sabers have really low ATA, so they're not without their tradeoffs, but Photon Swords and Axes also have sub-par ATA, and Figunners get to make up for that partially by way of a higher natural ATA.

Oji_Retta
Oct 16, 2006, 05:29 PM
I'm going to end up making a Figunner because I like being able to use heavy weapons well but hold speed above raw power. I also have no love for the axe.

Parn
Oct 16, 2006, 05:37 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:29, Cross wrote:
Take a look at, uhh... Whatever Lyrise's thread is that should be on or near the front page. Double Sabers can hit up to five targets in one swing, and Claire Sabers (single and twin), assuming there's an S-Rank equivalent for Figunners to take advantage of in addition to the A-Rank ones that Fortefighters can use too, have both a bigger range on their swings, and can hit multiple targets with one swing.
I saw that thread, and in fact, responded to it. My discussion is in reference to raw damage, and a weapon line that has C rank weapon ATP could not possibly keep up with a weapon that already hits multiple targets by default and has high ATP already. I don't doubt the utility of those Claire weapons since I will definitely be giving them a shot on the US release with my Figunner, but I know for a fact that I'd never keep up with a Fortefighter using a sword, axe, or spear of the equivalent ranking.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 05:52 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:29, Cross wrote:


On 2006-10-16 15:23, Parn wrote:
You'll note that the Fortefighter has S rank in all the multi-hit weapon classes

Take a look at, uhh... Whatever Lyrise's thread is that should be on or near the front page. Double Sabers can hit up to five targets in one swing, and Claire Sabers (single and twin), assuming there's an S-Rank equivalent for Figunners to take advantage of in addition to the A-Rank ones that Fortefighters can use too, have both a bigger range on their swings, and can hit multiple targets with one swing.
Of course, Claire weapons have really low ATP and Double Sabers have really low ATA, so they're not without their tradeoffs, but Photon Swords and Axes also have sub-par ATA, and Figunners get to make up for that partially by way of a higher natural ATA.



Mm, well, to be honest, a Figunner's ATA doesn't really seem to be THAT much better... 36-39 as opposed to a fortefighter's 36.

And I think you're kind of underestimating the usefulness of ranged weapons. I always carried an AoE weapon, a single target weapon and a ranged weapon with me in PSO because they each served their purpouse and I doubt PSU will be different in that aspect. ..though, fortefighters get one handed guns anyway, so I wonder how much better dual handguns are?

Anyway, I know what you mean by the differences in fighting style. Accuracey over power, evasiveness over toughness, etc., but still, I think that their level 20 bullet skills and dual handguns may be more useful than you think, as bullet skills seem to be status effects and the like. I may even be one because of that.



On 2006-10-16 15:23, Parn wrote:

On 2006-10-16 15:06, Elleranda wrote:
Oh come on, respond to my post earlier! I brought up some good points!
Very well.

I assume you've played PSO. What would you take to the battlefield in say, the ruins... a saber, daggers, a partisan, or a sword? I'd wager you'd pick one of the last two, and why? Probably because the latter two make you do considerably more damage. The saber and daggers are faster than the partisan or the sword, but the latter two hit multiple targets. The fact that the sword and partisan swing slower becomes extremely irrelevant.

You'll note that the Fortefighter has S rank in all the multi-hit weapon classes, and has access to the strongest single-hit melee weapons (the claw sets and fists). In terms of pure, raw damage, the fortefighter will blatantly be more powerful. I guarantee that the person wielding a sword will do more damage to the dragon than someone wielding a saber.

It's not all about raw damage, else rangers would be completely worthless. I've found the crowd control based photon arts for weapons that Figunner excels at to be superior, simply because they can be pulled off faster and easier. I'll be playing a Figunner because it fits my playstyle more. And playing off of the last comment in the previous paragraph, the saber wielder will be able to move away after an attack a lot sooner and will generally take a lot less damage.

But yeah, the numbers don't lie.



This kind of falls back into my previous quote, but I'd take a saber, a sword and a handgun! They each served their own purpouse depending on the situation. Swords for groups, sabers for single targets and ranged for those targets that are ten times easier to kill with a gun than a saber and for when I find myself out of mates and in yellow HP.

I'm just saying, I don't really think one class' weapons are better than the other, as they both get ranged, single target and multi target weapons. Although, dual handguns are probably better for pure ranged damage as opposed to mixing a handgun, but fortefighters get a bit more umph out of everything else.

I think I'm babbling now.

Edit: Just to make it clearer, all I'm saying is that each weapon has it's equal tradeoff (except for maybe the one handed weapons), and each weapon can be effectively used depending on the situation.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-16 15:57 ]</font>

Q_Anon
Oct 16, 2006, 05:56 PM
All I can say to all the people complaining about the weapon arrangements is, tough luck.
If it's THAT big of an issue that you can't recreate your HUmar then go play PSO and enjoy it some more. But wait...that's right you won't, you'll sit here on PSOW filling the boards with spam about how Fortefighters are teh gimped because they can't be godly and get an S Rank in every melee weapon.
DEAL WITH IT, pick the weapon you like the most and go with whatever job has it. STOP COMPLAINING AND LEARN TO COMPROMISE.

Note, this was not directed at anyone in particular, just the winey baby population as a whole.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 05:59 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:56, Q_Anon wrote:
All I can say to all the people complaining about the weapon arrangements is, tough luck.
If it's THAT big of an issue that you can't recreate your HUmar then go play PSO and enjoy it some more. But wait...that's right you won't, you'll sit here on PSOW filling the boards with spam about how Fortefighters are teh gimped because they can't be godly and get an S Rank in every melee weapon.
DEAL WITH IT, pick the weapon you like the most and go with whatever job has it. STOP COMPLAINING AND LEARN TO COMPROMISE.

Note, this was not directed at anyone in particular, just the winey baby population as a whole.



I find the people saying that exact same thing over and over and over and over and over every time someone mentions their distaste about it more annoying than the people that complain. You're not saying anything new. You're not saying anything we don't already know. You CAN simply not read if it bothers you so much.

Jasam
Oct 16, 2006, 06:11 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:27, Parn wrote:

On 2006-10-16 15:13, Jasam wrote:
Can you stop using that arguement? For anyone who (taking the worst case senario) wishes to use axes and double sabers equaly, it is NOT an option to just make a Figunner.
By that same token, it's not an option to make a fortefighter either. So then, what are you suggesting?



Perhaps I was not clear enough.
I'm saying don't use the "switch classes arguement" like its something practical or actuly solves anything all of the time.
In the example I gave, the person has to scrifice one of the two favourte weapons either way, so switching class does not solve the problem at all.

Is that more understandable? It is quite late so I may not be being as clear as I think I am ^-^'

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 06:35 PM
Woa, I come back the next day and there is a huge discussion O_O.
I'm impressed with these points, I think it would be a good idea to wiat until everyone accually sees how well these classes play out before any of us decide to take on one, after all if you meet the minimum requirement by level 10 for all of these jobs but you can continue on to level 20 for job rank there will most likely be bonuses.

As another point there is a good chance that there are more expert classes on the way that ST hasn't released yet. So for everyone to worry about what they will specialize in right away doesn't seem nessary, I just hope they have some good stuff hidden.

Q_Anon
Oct 16, 2006, 07:04 PM
I find the people saying that exact same thing over and over and over and over and over every time someone mentions their distaste about it more annoying than the people that complain. You're not saying anything new. You're not saying anything we don't already know. You CAN simply not read if it bothers you so much.


I'm sorry if what I said was annoying. But the fact is people just don't get it until you pound it into your head so much if you opened up their head you would find it engraved on their skull.

EDIT: No mean, cynical posting for me.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Q_Anon on 2006-10-16 17:06 ]</font>

-Shimarisu-
Oct 16, 2006, 07:13 PM
I think everyone's missing the fact that fighgunners are better for solo because they can take down flying enemies faster and with less PP.

Don't have a good gun? You have to knock em out of the sky with a PA. WHEN they swoop low enough, Or shoot em with a piddly handgun.

Fighgunner can take them down with dual handgun which is a damn sight more effective, and having more atp than Ranger, it's quicker too.

I made Fighgunner on my cast because I was sick of those dragon bastards while soloing dragon runs. I can now solo A rank dragon runs at level 48.

Fighgunner is also the best class hands down for cast and offers the most potential of any merged class.

I mean, let's look at this.

Fighgunner - it's best for cast, having second best ATP (not much lower than beast either) and best ATA.
Guntecher - It's best for... ??? Well, newmen have the best TAP and second best ATA, but a guntecher's techs are nerfed so it's kind of a wasre on this character. I don't know. Maybe it's best on a human, which does everything averagely.
Wartecher - it's best for...??? Well it's a FO with a bit of HU thrown in. Newm would be weak at the HU aspect, beast/cast would be weak at the FO aspect. Maybe it's best on a human, which does everything averagely.
Protranser - At current stage of the game, this thing sucks on just about everything.

Cast excels at Fighgunner. No other merged class has a race that EXCELS at it. Of course I don't believe that means they suck, but I was cast so I went Fighgunner. The ATA you'll have DOES make up for the lack of ATP. My cast can effectively shoot things in the sky. He can attack from the front. My beast hunter generally cannot.

Both fighgunner and fortefigher are effective hunters. Overall they probably deal about the same damage. BUT FIGHGUNNER IS BETTER FOR SOLO. PERIOD.

Alexandrious1
Oct 16, 2006, 08:08 PM
Real hard choice for me, I see the advantages of both forte and fighgunner, Fighgunner appears to have more End, and when dealing with the Megid throwing mobs, can switch to guns for stunning and freezing I believe, while Forte has more HP, more defense, and more raw power.

However my weapon of choice are Twin Sabers, so im kinda stuck in this. I may say screw it and play both classes equally, but I also wanted to play a Force class, sadly their is some limit to the amount of culmalative skill/bullet/techs you can learn at the same time, correct me if im wrong please.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alexandrious1 on 2006-10-16 18:12 ]</font>

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 08:11 PM
On 2006-10-16 18:08, Alexandrious1 wrote:
Real hard choice for me, I see the advantages of both forte and figunner, Figunner appears to have more End, and when dealing with the Megid throwing mobs, can switch to guns for stunning and freezing I believe, while Forte has more HP, more defense, and more raw power.

However my weapon of choice are Twin Sabers, so im kinda stuck in this. I may say screw it and play both classes equally, but I also wanted to play a Force class, sadly their is some limit to the amount of culmalative skill/bullet/techs you can learn at the same time, correct me if im wrong please.



I've never heard of there being a limit, but I could be wrong.

Q_Anon
Oct 16, 2006, 08:14 PM
Yeah, there is a limit. 36 PAs total on a character, though once to get to the 36th you can delete one for a new one. But if you relearn a PA you deleted you have to level it up again.

Fleece
Oct 16, 2006, 08:14 PM
i used to play PSO with nothing equipped just for the crack lol

Damage doesnt really matter In Phantasy star, its all about teamwork and making sure your buddys are alright.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 08:17 PM
On 2006-10-16 18:14, Q_Anon wrote:
Yeah, there is a limit. 36 PAs total on a character, though once to get to the 36th you can delete one for a new one. But if you relearn a PA you deleted you have to level it up again.



Oh, I guess I read what he said wrong. For some reason I thought he said total accumulitive levels of PA. Thanks.

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 16, 2006, 08:40 PM
Dude, your crying because you don't get twin-head sabers as a fortefighter and the fact you lack S-ranks in HALF YOUR WEAPONS. Have you looked at hte other classes? Name a class that S-ranks in all it's "job" weapons. I'd love it if Figunner also included rifles, cannons, and shots but lets think about that. . .

Oh, right, there's this thing game maker's designed called balance. . . You know, that thing that makes it so everyone can't do everything and making a need for diversity. "CRY, I WANT MY DOUBLE SABERS AND ALL MY MELEE WEAPONS S RANK BECAUSE AXES AREN'T ENOUGH AND I HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET AND I'M GETTING DISAPPOINTED ABOUT NOTHING."

A fighter not being able to se the fighter weapons he wants to. Those weapons are in a different class. If you want power, take fortefighter, if you want finesse, take figunner. Bottom line is you can't have everything, balance is perfectly fair no matter how much it effects you, and don't complain about something you have no experience with.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 08:46 PM
On 2006-10-16 18:40, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Dude, your crying because you don't get twin-head sabers as a fortefighter and the fact you lack S-ranks in HALF YOUR WEAPONS. Have you looked at hte other classes? Name a class that S-ranks in all it's "job" weapons. I'd love it if Figunner also included rifles, cannons, and shots but lets think about that. . .

Oh, right, there's this thing game maker's designed called balance. . . You know, that thing that makes it so everyone can't do everything and making a need for diversity. "CRY, I WANT MY DOUBLE SABERS AND ALL MY MELEE WEAPONS S RANK BECAUSE AXES AREN'T ENOUGH AND I HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET AND I'M GETTING DISAPPOINTED ABOUT NOTHING."

A fighter not being able to se the fighter weapons he wants to. Those weapons are in a different class. If you want power, take fortefighter, if you want finesse, take figunner. Bottom line is you can't have everything, balance is perfectly fair no matter how much it effects you, and don't complain about something you have no experience with.



Either GO AWAY, or READ the thread before you post. Sooo tired of people reading the first post and deciding it gives them the right to be a troll.

Edit: Just to clarify as to WHY he should read it is because dozens of other people have already said the whole "stfu and deal" routine.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-16 18:47 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-16 18:49 ]</font>

-Break-
Oct 16, 2006, 08:46 PM
On 2006-10-16 18:40, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Name a class that S-ranks in all it's "job" weapons.


Well if you insist:
(From Parn's Actually Useful Topic)
Fortecher
Unique trait - Exclusive access to Staves and Level 30 Techniques. Only class that has S rank on Bows, Cards, and Rods.
Photon Art Distribution - Level 1 Weapon Skills, Level 30 Bullets, Level 30 Techniques

Funny that seems to have S ranks in all its 'job' weapons.....

I have no problems with the weapon distributions just though I'd answer your little question.

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 16, 2006, 08:51 PM
On 2006-10-16 18:46, -Break- wrote:


On 2006-10-16 18:40, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Name a class that S-ranks in all it's "job" weapons.


Well if you insist:
(From Parn's Actually Useful Topic)
Fortecher
Unique trait - Exclusive access to Staves and Level 30 Techniques. Only class that has S rank on Bows, Cards, and Rods.
Photon Art Distribution - Level 1 Weapon Skills, Level 30 Bullets, Level 30 Techniques

Funny that seems to have S ranks in all its 'job' weapons.....

I have no problems with the weapon distributions just though I'd answer your little question.



Well there's no way to deny fact. To be real anal about it, there's no crossbow. . . But I have to admit, I overlooked this.

Also, I did read the first 25 posts in this ;o

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 08:57 PM
Also, I did read the first 25 posts in this ;o



Then if you DID then you'd KNOW that nobody is asking Sonic Team to change it or saying that it SHOULD change, it's really just people disappointed that the plans they had aren't really going to work out as they thought. Is that really so blasphemous? :/

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 16, 2006, 08:59 PM
Well, from the way you described it. . . You made it sound like the world was ending because you couldn't have everything >_>;;;


Since I'm not in a reading mood, tell me your current stand on the main subject.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 09:03 PM
On 2006-10-16 18:59, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Well, from the way you described it. . . You made it sound like the world was ending because you couldn't have everything >_>;;;


Since I'm not in a reading mood, tell me your current stand on the main subject.



Honestly, I was just disappointed and still am disappointed that I couldn't use the weapons that I particularly wanted to.

It's not as bad now because early on in the thread someone explained that the ranks are just for requirements of the weapon, not how good you use that kind of weapon. After I cooled down from my initial post I realized that this isn't really so bad and is probably good for the health of the game. Still, it ruins plans for some people and we can't help but be disappointed. It's not the end of the world, we'll just find something else to have fun with in PSU.

Weak
Oct 16, 2006, 09:17 PM
Then, this topic is about sharing disappointment? Why has it continued for ten pages?

Well, actually, I can answer my own question, since it was because things got all arguementative.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 09:20 PM
On 2006-10-16 19:17, Weak wrote:
Then, this topic is about sharing disappointment? Why has it continued for ten pages?

Well, actually, I can answer my own question, since it was because things got all arguementative.



I didn't expect this to get passed page 1, in all honesty, and it probably wouldn't have if people didn't get offended.

Grats on 100 posts, by the way.

MaximusLight
Oct 16, 2006, 11:42 PM
....well.... hmmmm..... there is one thing that could be done to stop the complait posts but it isn't very practical and defeats the propose of the thread in the first place, although you could edit the first page if you wanted to to make it look less irrritating to others (I don't know what it is that's appears to irritate people so you have to figure that out on your own)
But.... this is starting to get off topic, so how about this:
Why don't we just post what we would like to see in an expert class without making the character job overpowered? Like it were a custom class.

Forumchibi
Oct 16, 2006, 11:50 PM
Does it really matter if the class is overpowered?

I mean, if I get to 60 and max out every job and have meseta pouring out of my room into the Central area, is that so bad? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I understand what Elleranda is trying to say on some levels. It's like the Squire job class in Final Fantasy Tactics, a job that once you mastered all the others you could shape it into your own. You could make a healer who would wield two-handed swords.

I know personally that I think a priest wielding a sword is the coolest thing in the world, like a mage wearing platemail versus those froofy robes you see on all the others. You wouldn't even have to be good at them, I'd be happy with just an E rank, LOL.

Fully-customizable worlds are difficult to balance, but honestly everyone wants them whether it balanced or not. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif A knight in full plate with excellent swordsmanship and magic skills (Lantis from MKR, anyone?), or a healer who is the opposite of Aeris and can actually do combat instead of just falling over instantly - duh it's out of the ordinary, that's why it would be so cool. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif If someone could earn that right, I don't see what the problem would be, but oh well.

Elleranda
Oct 16, 2006, 11:53 PM
On 2006-10-16 21:50, Forumchibi wrote:
I understand what Elleranda is trying to say on some levels. ... You could make a healer who would wield two-handed swords.

>_> Uh, then you don't actually understand what I was trying to say. XD

Forumchibi
Oct 17, 2006, 12:09 AM
I guess I really don't, sorry about that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif;;;;;;

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 12:13 AM
People are really just upset simply because the idea we had of our hunter was to use a certain melee weapon, and with this specialization in expert classes it kind of ruins those plans. That's all. We're not gonna die or not play just because of that or anything.

Overall I think it's healthy for the game. And it's okay. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

-Shimarisu-
Oct 17, 2006, 01:56 AM
Hi ladies.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/shirubania/doublesaber9.jpg

It's a mostly support weap. Fairly low ATP for an A rank and the PA knocks practically everything over on the first tier.

Is this what you wanted? Support weap on your uber tanking fortefighter?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-10-16 23:57 ]</font>

ShadowDragon28
Oct 17, 2006, 02:11 AM
Meh, so what GRM make crappy Dbl. sabers. Other models or synthed ones would fair better I'm guessing.

If there are Youmei, Tenora, or "kubara" type double sabers. Once grinded to max and with the appropriate Units I speculate will be quite effective;

Then once I got things set-up on my character, my Fighter (FighGunner) that does *not* use f**king guns will be frakin' humanoid lawnmower shreding through enemies with a A-rank and then S-Rank Dbl Saber. I'll be more then just "support". he he he...

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 02:13 AM
On 2006-10-16 23:56, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Hi ladies.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j104/shirubania/doublesaber9.jpg

It's a mostly support weap. Fairly low ATP for an A rank and the PA knocks practically everything over on the first tier.

Is this what you wanted? Support weap on your uber tanking fortefighter?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-10-16 23:57 ]</font>


You talking to me? Nope. I said dual sabers, or twin sabers to more accurate. Though I know most people disappointed with the splitting in the weapons did want to use the double sabers.

And before you say "You still have A rank in those", I already know that. But at first I thought the ranks meant how well you used that weapon, rather than requirements for the weapon rank. Also, I've seen the PA for double sabers drill the crap out of a monster if used in just the right spot.

-Shimarisu-
Oct 17, 2006, 02:22 AM
On 2006-10-17 00:13, Elleranda wrote:

You talking to me? Nope. I said dual sabers, or twin sabers to more accurate. Though I know most people disappointed with the splitting in the weapons did want to use the double sabers.




Twin sabers are also basically a support weap. Can't do the uber damage that spear does but knocks stuff over on the first tier of a PA combo (in fact every tier of the current twin saber PA will knock things over.)

-Shimarisu-
Oct 17, 2006, 02:25 AM
On 2006-10-17 00:11, ShadowDragon28 wrote:
Meh, so what GRM make crappy Dbl. sabers. Other models or synthed ones would fair better I'm guessing.


Um did I say it was crappy?

No, I said it was support. The other models will be similar, just high ATP lower PP (Tenora works) or high PP low ATP (Youmei).

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 02:28 AM
On 2006-10-17 00:22, -Shimarisu- wrote:


On 2006-10-17 00:13, Elleranda wrote:

You talking to me? Nope. I said dual sabers, or twin sabers to more accurate. Though I know most people disappointed with the splitting in the weapons did want to use the double sabers.




Twin sabers are also basically a support weap. Can't do the uber damage that spear does but knocks stuff over on the first tier of a PA combo (in fact every tier of the current twin saber PA will knock things over.)




If ya say so.

-Shimarisu-
Oct 17, 2006, 03:00 AM
Um, I know so. I have the game and I play a fighgunner. Online, not hacked offline.

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 03:01 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Um, I know so. I have the game and I play a fighgunner. Online, not hacked offline.



Good for you. I think people would rather make their own decisions on their weapons though.

Yoruichi
Oct 17, 2006, 03:10 AM
and some people are "redmage" personalities aka min/maxers, and what to know every little bit to make the best choice.

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 03:27 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:10, Yoruichi wrote:
and some people are "redmage" personalities aka min/maxers, and what to know every little bit to make the best choice.



Well in THAT case, missy, I have two things I want to say to YOU!

1) What's your sig from? She looks cool.

2) In that case, spears are no suprise that they deal more damage as they're slower and hit multiple targets. But I always thought that twin sabers are more for single targets and deal decently fast attacks as opposed to slow ones. Spears are probably better for multi-target, but I wouldn't consider calling all single-target weapons just support because multi-target weapons do more damage to groups. Wouldn't you rather have a saber against a lone target rather than a sword?

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 03:31 AM
You guys are still debating this? Haven't you already accepted the fact that the Double Saber is not for Fortefighters, just as S-rank Twin Handguns, Crossbows and Mechguns are not for Fortegunners? Fortefighters are pure mass. They're beasts (in more ways than one), and as such do not have the agility to handle such an unusual weapon. All they can do is chop motions at best, not twirl a baton on the cheerleading team.

Besides, axes are cooler. c.c

-Shimarisu-
Oct 17, 2006, 03:32 AM
Twin sabers are actually much better on groups. As in, really annoying groups that bear down on you all at once. I'm talking Vahras. Their attacks can swamp people.

On Vahras I bring out the twin sabers, chuck them all into the air and they can't even get an attack in.

Spear is actually good on single targets that are running from you, as it has long range.

Double saber also seems to be good on groups as the PA will knock down a row of monsters the length of the weapon. Also it's good for conserving PP because you can then work on the downed monsters with regular attacks.

The best damage, as in mostly pure damage weapon a fighgunner has is twin daggers. These will only down things on the THIRD PA.

Zato-2TWO
Oct 17, 2006, 03:34 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:31, FenixStryk wrote:
You guys are still debating this? Haven't you already accepted the fact that the Double Saber is not for Fortefighters, just as S-rank Twin Handguns, Crossbows and Mechguns are not for Fortegunners? Fortefighters are pure mass. They're beasts (in more ways than one), and as such do not have the agility to handle such an unusual weapon. All they can do is chop motions at best, not twirl a baton on the cheerleading team.

Besides, axes are cooler. c.c



On that logic, why is it that Fortefighters get S-rank twin claws when Figunners only get up to A? I never understood that part of the bargain...

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 03:36 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:32, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Twin sabers are actually much better on groups. As in, really annoying groups that bear down on you all at once. I'm talking Vahras. Their attacks can swamp people.

On Vahras I bring out the twin sabers, chuck them all into the air and they can't even get an attack in.

Spear is actually good on single targets that are running from you, as it has long range.

Double saber also seems to be good on groups as the PA will knock down a row of monsters the length of the weapon. Also it's good for conserving PP because you can then work on the downed monsters with regular attacks.

The best damage, as in mostly pure damage weapon a fighgunner has is twin daggers. These will only down things on the THIRD PA.



Well, I guess people are entitled to their opinions. And yes, I also have been playing PSU. While not understanding what the hell the text is saying most of the time, I do also have experience in using different weapons.

But that's just my original statement. It's opinion, and people should decide on their own what's what so that they don't let themselves be discouraged by people who think a certain way about it.

I think I'm babbling again. Sue me, I'm tired!

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 03:37 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:31, FenixStryk wrote:
You guys are still debating this? Haven't you already accepted the fact that the Double Saber is not for Fortefighters, just as S-rank Twin Handguns, Crossbows and Mechguns are not for Fortegunners? Fortefighters are pure mass. They're beasts (in more ways than one), and as such do not have the agility to handle such an unusual weapon. All they can do is chop motions at best, not twirl a baton on the cheerleading team.

Besides, axes are cooler. c.c



I. Never. Wanted. To. Use. Double. Sabers.

AND YOU'RE NOT COOL ANYMORE.

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 03:41 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:37, Elleranda wrote:AND YOU'RE NOT COOL ANYMORE.Lol. I didn't even know I was cool to begin with, seeing as how I joined, like, yesterday? But whatever.

Fortefighters = choppy motion and punchy motion (Axes + Claws)
Figunners = dancing on the girl squad motion

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 03:44 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:41, FenixStryk wrote:

On 2006-10-17 01:37, Elleranda wrote:AND YOU'RE NOT COOL ANYMORE.Lol. I didn't even know I was cool to begin with, seeing as how I joined, like, yesterday? But whatever.

Fortefighters = choppy motion and punchy motion (Axes + Claws)
Figunners = dancing on the girl squad motion



Well, fortefighters still get A ranks in the finesse weapons like daggers and sabers and stuff. So, your calculations do not hold up, good sir or madam!

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 03:49 AM
I could go on and on about how I'm right and you're wrong, due to the simple fact that I'm me and you're you, but I'll stop while I'm ahead and not make myself look like a complete ass. If that's what you think, fine, your loss, not gonna affect me. I'm a (Walker, texas) ranger, after all.

Elleranda
Oct 17, 2006, 03:52 AM
On 2006-10-17 01:49, FenixStryk wrote:
I could go on and on about how I'm right and you're wrong, due to the simple fact that I'm me and you're you, but I'll stop while I'm ahead and not make myself look like a complete ass. If that's what you think, fine, your loss, not gonna affect me. I'm a (Walker, texas) ranger, after all.



Good way to introduce yourself to the community. A++ work there.

P.S: Mmph mph mpphmph mmph mph mmumph mph. Erased because you apologized.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-17 01:56 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elleranda on 2006-10-17 01:56 ]</font>

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 03:55 AM
Lol, I knew I was being arrogant there. Just wanted to get a laugh. Really, though, I'm sorry.

FrogKicker
Oct 17, 2006, 07:14 AM
On 2006-10-16 14:31, Elleranda wrote:


On 2006-10-16 08:38, tr8ergirl wrote:
Want to do everything eh? Get over it. I love how it's set up, in that you have to switch jobs to use different weps.

Seems like more and more people are wanting some kind of god-mode. Oh noes!!! I can't use teh saberz!!!! Heres a simple fix for you folks, go to Wal-Mart, buy a bottle, and continue to be a baby.



Hey! Shaddap. Read the thread before commenting.



I did read the thread. The OP is pissed because he can't be one char and use everything he wants. That is all I was referring to.

Flame6
Oct 17, 2006, 07:16 AM
Im sorry but if i could use any weapon with every single class than well that kinda removes the point of classes.

Nayte
Oct 17, 2006, 07:21 AM
Most people will play multiple classes anyway, so you will end up using all the weapons ( i know i will eventually). Im just happy there are knuckle/claw weapons that look decent.

Flame6
Oct 17, 2006, 07:22 AM
The game does a great job of making things look cool as you wield them...things dont look like they are hanging by strings or floating around you.

Feign
Oct 17, 2006, 07:44 AM
All I can say about weapon to class restrictions is....

Thank god, finally....some distinction between classes....

Flame6
Oct 17, 2006, 07:45 AM
Heck YES! i like having distinction....it makes part members more valuable!

Feign
Oct 17, 2006, 07:45 AM
On 2006-10-17 05:21, Nayte wrote:
Most people will play multiple classes anyway, so you will end up using all the weapons ( i know i will eventually). Im just happy there are knuckle/claw weapons that look decent.



What you mean to say is, knuckle/claw weapons that look decent +kick a notable amount of buttox. :3

Nayte
Oct 17, 2006, 07:47 AM
Well of course i do. Any game that has hand-to-hand weapons will apeal to me. i just love them =)

Starshape
Oct 17, 2006, 07:50 AM
How can people not like the restrictions? I meen this is the best thing they could have used the classes for http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I can agree that you might think that some weapons are not asigned right for the right classes but the taste is like the ass, divided. (roughly translated from swedish, swedish saying) haha

physic
Oct 17, 2006, 09:06 AM
well cross, we will get to look at the exact translation of what fortefighter says, im pretty sure it will say specializes in melee combat, because thats what all the people saying that were basing it off of, the jp translation of the text.

Anyhow, regardless, yes your right they have made fortehunter into a barbarian class, and fortefighter into a finesse, why? i dont know. probably just to make people play figunner. I dont disagree that they have decided to make the pure hu into a barbarian and figunner into a finesse player, but figunner seems more like a second hu, than a hu ra mix, infact wartekker also seems like its focused on hu. So the question is, why is hu getting broken up to a bunch of categories, whereas pure RA and pure Fo still own in thier respective fields. Only hu is questionable who is best in the field of melee, where is the finesee rangers, or the fo focus on gi skills. Is it balance really, or is it just a splitting of the Hu class to 3 categories, whilst the ra and fo still own their own categories.

Cause_I_Own_U
Oct 17, 2006, 10:21 AM
What is this barbie dream house online? Whys everyone so obsessed with how they look with their weapon, stop trying to be darth maul you noobs

Dont worry knuckles and sword, ill be your friend



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-17 08:22 ]</font>