Weapon Properties, on Claire weapons, doublesabers, et al.

[Lyrise]

Just wanted to create this thread after discovering one of the many secrets the Claire series weapons have, and to see if other people have found other interesting properties to their weapons.

As most importers probably know by now, Claire series weapons are A Grade weapons, that cannot be equipped by beasts and casts. They also have some pathetically low ATP stats for an A Grade that make C grade weapons look GOOD in comparison.

Stats of my Sharp Twins, 8 star twinsaber (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/real/s-twin.JPG)

Stats of my Twin ClaireSabers (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/real/clairestats.JPG)

The question in my mind that was begging to be asked is why an A Grade weapon, that costs an average of about 150k in materials to build, would have an attack stat so low? The reason why is an act of balancing by Sonic Team to flesh out an otherwise overpowered effect.

Attacking a Boravora with Sharp Twins (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/real/withoutclaire.JPG)

Attacking it again with Twin Clairesabers (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/real/withtclaire.JPG)

If you haven't noticed it by now, here's what's going on - Never mind the fact that the Claire sabers are longer; the targeting limiters have been upped/removed on the Claire series weapons. What this means is that I can actually now hit more tagets in one attack than I normally should be able to. This seems to hold true for Skill Arts as well, as my Rising crush in its 1st iteration hit 4 targets instead of 2 (without spinning around and separating each slash for different groups).

With this in mind, the low stats seem kinda pointless, as I am STILL doing more damage with a supposedly weaker weapon. Just some food for thought for those of you who still think these are garbage weapons for A Class.

Now for the part that most of you seem to care most about (I'm pretty sure about it) - The doublesaber. I'll admit it, I like using these weapons. But no, it's not what got me to want to be a Fighgunner in the first place. In any case, if you look up the stats for a doublesaber, even for a 7star A Class weapon, you'll notice that it has some pretty abyssmal accuracy. Once again, its STs handywork on why that stat and attack power got nerfed.

This is what a normal attack with a doublesaber can do. (http://www.arc-drive.com/images/psu/real/doublesaberlimit.JPG)

In the shot I have above, it's hitting 4 targets at one time. But really, it can hit up to 5. Imagine this - 5 targets * the 5 hits of a full combo = easy boss killing weapon. It would be horridly overpowered if the attack power and the accuracy of this thing were higher.

And of course just to give some unreasonable people something new to think about, its the above reason why a fortefighter can't use a doublesaber. Fortefighters have naturally lower accuracy. Even if they could use it, it'd mean they couldn't hit a single thing that's of a comparable level to the Fortefighter itself.

This is just from my perspective as an ex-Fortefighter now Fighgunner. Any one else have some interesting weapon properties to share (not stuff like sabers can normally hit 2 targets at once)?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2006-10-16 10:08 ]</font>

[tyler2zelda]

This topic gets a 10/10.

[darthplagis]

yep makes sense to me. in PSO the double sabers were ranger wepons also even tho HU ALWAYS had them (why i will NEVER know. it was the same as Lyrise mentioned in PSO the ATA of the damn things is/was crap so HU never had a chance)

[physic]

no, in pso the double sabers were equiped by ash your protypical hunter boi. only like one or two of the doublesaber class was equippable by rangers, there were a great man hunter on doublesabers. As to the multiple taget hitting of double sabers, i really dont see why that makes it so that fortefighters shouldnt have it, spear also hits multiple targets, sword, kucklePas.. yeah hitting mulltiple targets is quite the norm for hu. Basically what seeems is the likely reason for this is simply to make a class people werent that interested in, more interesting. By seperating high desire weapons like double saber into specific less loved classes, they ensure that more people will play with them. now there is a slight reason a non gun monkey may choose to be a figh gunner. how you feel about that is a different story.

[Ryoga4523]

Did they increase the lvl cap or are those offline pics???

[Mwabwetumba]

Im pleased with the way doublesabers handle and look like in PSU.
Its actually inspiring me to persuade a smith to forge me a bladed quarterstaff^^

[CpwninOBrien]

On 2006-10-16 10:45, Ryoga4523 wrote:
Did they increase the lvl cap or are those offline pics???



new lvl cap is 60 hope this helps http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Decurae]

That's rather interesting. Good observation. Even with the lower ATP, they still seem great. Fighgunners seem to really have some nice things going for them. Good to see the ranger class has improved since PSO.

[Lyrise]

Here's another one I forgot to mention earlier - this one regarding shotguns. We all know that BAs will change the number of shots fired depending on level. We also know that if you fire at a close enough range, you can fire all the shots on one target.

But.....if you shoot it at pointblank, you're really hitting more times than you have bullets. I haven't tested for BAs past 21, but I know that when you're firing 3 shots at point blank, you can hit up to 5 times, and when you shoot 4, up to 7 times.

[Beck]

oooh

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beck on 2006-10-16 11:09 ]</font>

[Mitz]

What does shooting at point blank mean XD

And nice guide. How do you make this weapon? I'd like to make it =D

[Kei-Z]

Well, amidst all of the doublesaber hatred/obsession, I still think they'll be good weapons. People keep talking about their low ata, but let's remember that fighgunners, which are the most accurate of the hunter based classes, are the only class that can use them. I guess when taking that into consideration, it won't really matter that much that they're inaccurate. I know that not using being able to use doublesabers will be a sore spot for many, but it seems that a lot of people are hating on them just because fortefighters won't be able to use them. It's really nothing to be sour about. Fortefighters still have plenty of cool weapons to use if you ask me. For all that think the accuracy of the doublesaber is bad, please remember: fortefighter and protranser axes are even more inaccurate on already naturally more inaccurate classes. I'm not saying either weapon is better or that I prefer any class over the other, but I'm just trying to be objective and weigh in a few factors here. Also, I don't necessarily agree that Fighgunners were given doublesabers to make them more popular. I do think that the s rank weapons were spread out to specialize the classes and to give us good reasons to use every class, but I don't think the doublesaber was moved to the fighgunner to do so specifically. As many have already noticed, fortefighters emphasize the heavy power weapons, while fighgunners get the faster, more finesse weapons. It really only makes sense. The doublesaber was the only weapon that utilizes quicker, several hit combos left for the fighgunner to have besides the twin sabers and twin daggers, and twin claws. twin daggers/sabers are both weapons that the fighgunner already had as S-ranks and I'm sure the claws were kept exclusively to the fortefighter to give the class some more speed. Anyways, just my two cents. And sorry for the long post.

[Mitz]

Nice post Kei-Z. And really wtf does it matter. You can change class at any time right? So you're able to use every weapon >_>;;

[Lyrise]

On 2006-10-16 11:25, Kei-Z wrote:
Well, amidst all of the doublesaber hatred/obsession, I still think they'll be good weapons. ....(snipped for brevity)... And sorry for the long post.



And I totally agree with it. I was more or less addressing the complaints that Fortefighter wanna-bes have been spewing out.

As for the points made on axes, they definitely have to tone down the accuracy, since an axe is easily 2x more powerful than any other weapon in existance at the moment.

[Parn]

The Claire lineup of weapons is interesting, but it poses this question... if only newmans and humans can use them, then what exactly do casts and beasts get access to that counters this? I'm not expecting an answer just yet unless someone really knows, but let's be honest here... the nano blast and SUV weapons don't exactly match up to the utility these Claire weapons provide.

[Jasam]

I also hope there is some similar cast only weaponry, I hear SUVS are often unpopular compared to things like whitil wings, so its not like SUV = major advantage

[Lyrise]

On 2006-10-16 14:42, Parn wrote:
The Claire lineup of weapons is interesting, but it poses this question... if only newmans and humans can use them, then what exactly do casts and beasts get access to that counters this? I'm not expecting an answer just yet unless someone really knows, but let's be honest here... the nano blast and SUV weapons don't exactly match up to the utility these Claire weapons provide.



I believe the logic is that humans' and newmens' base attack stats aren't that good to begin with when compared to Beasts and Casts.

PSU's damage calculation tend to be more exponential, just like it was in PSO, so your atp has to meet a certain point before real damage starts to happen. So unless you decide to spend all your efforts on maximizing power, it's not as useful as you'd think for normal attacks. Since PAs as well as elemental weakness multiply atp stat as a whole, at that point it's a whole new ballgame.

[Parn]

Good point. Tackling really high level monsters would be a lot less feasible utilizing these weapons.

In any case, thanks for the info.

[Lyrise]

Still makes for good boss takedown weaponry, especially if you have good elemental modifiers. 30% can fix quite a few damage problems, even though it'd be limited to that one element.

[Kupi]

Don't forget about the defensive utility of focused attack power, also. If you're up against five enemies, being able to quickly spike one of those enemies out of the game means you've only got four enemies left attacking you. Spike another one out, and it's only three attacking you, and so on. If you spread your attacks over all five, that's all five enemies attacking you until all of them die. Of course, that doesn't take into account damage flinches and all the ATP formulae, but, theoretically speaking, that's the advantage of high damage in a single shot (which Beasts and Casts are more suited to).

[xzeekzx]

Figunner FTW! Me love Doublesavers... and yes i can talk http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Drown]

Wow, great post.

Very informative and very helpful.
It sounds pretty reasonable to me that certain classes and weapons are restricted. Balance is an important aspect of games, and it is very nice to see Sonic Team take an active approach to keep the game flowing smoothly.

[MaximusLight]

This is a good think to keep in mind...

[Tycho]

Thanks; never knew about this.

[oNijohso]

Doublesabers never seemed like a ranger weapon to me, it was essentially a bladed staff weapon which suits a melee class very well. I hate that ST has made the Double Saber so powerful and exclusive to one class, I really wanted it to use it on a wartecher or fortefighter. The Double Saber should be more accurate/faster and less powerful then twin sabers imo, but close to their stats since they are essentially the same weapon and being one connected weapon makes it easier to swing. I don't see how it was ever meant to be a ranger weapon at all, if anything spears are a ranger weapon. Now I have no class that I am fufilled with, any class I choose will be lacking something. I really wish they would do away with the whole class system and let players choose what skill/weapon combinations they want.

Aya, this sucks most of all because Ill have to play figunner to use my favorite weapon, and I have 0 interest in guns such a waste. Can't believe Im saying this but I actually prefer PSO's classes more, at least with my humar I could use a bit of magic and a double saber.

[DreamTonight]

Thanks a lot! Now I have the solution why I cant use my A-Rank Twin Sabers. Because it is Twin Claire and I'm a Cast -.-

But how I can see which class my weapon is before I try to collect these rare materials or buy it for a goddamn high price? lol that was really meseta wasting...

[Itsuki]

I don't know why people complain about this double saber thing so much. Fighgunners in aren't exactly a hunter + a ranger in PSU. When viewed as the quicker swifter hitting hunter that can use some extra guns, it makes the double saber fit almost perfectly with the idea of a Fighgunner.