force technics that you may not need

[galaxy]

Ok, So i've only gotten my force to lvl 10 in the beta, but I'm beginning to feel like there are technics that even full on fortetechers can pass up (and possibly replace with bullets or skills). If you agree, disagree, or want to add any spells to the list, go for it.

Spells that you will need:

Foie: great single damage spell. This is a staple in the force library.

Barta: Very effective early spell since it can both freeze and hit multiple enemies (can even hit more than three if lined up right). Low damage, but great for tagging.

Rabarta: same reasons for barta, pretty much. limited to only three targets like all the RA-'s, but thats ok.

Razonde/Radiga/Rafoie: I feel like, with the possible passing up of both zone and diga, all 4 ra- elements should be taken, for the sake of having elemental options. Plus, they each hit multiple enemies, and do around the same (or more) damage than their earlier counterparts

Resta: for obvious reasons.

Spells you may not need:

Zonde: I've put this here because, after buying it, I found that i hardly ever used it. why? well, barta was much better. Not only is freezing more effective, but both do similar damage, and barta can hit more enemies (both pass through enemies, but the barta blast is a little wider, so it can hit adjacent enemies sometimes too). This may be useful for zonde-weak enemies, but thats what razonde is for.

Diga: similar to why zonde is not chosen, foie is just better than this. Both hit one enemy, and foie does more damage (also, burn is better than silence). You've still got radiga for your earthly needs.

Reverser: this may become more useful as you get higher in lvl, but I've found that status effects don't occur often enough to warrant having this spell.

These are all the spells in the beta (to my knowledge), so I hope this helps or creates discussion. My suggestion would be to replace these with bullets (or skills if you plan on multi-classing or raising different classes on the same character, like me).

[donkeybeatz]

On 2006-10-17 09:17, galaxy wrote:
Reverser: this may become more useful as you get higher in lvl, but I've found that status effects don't occur often enough to warrant having this spell.

Wait until you get to play in Hakura Temple.
Burnnnnn city.

[Velocity_7]

Reverser no longer exists, at least offline. It's now Giresta, and it does the same thing but with an added Resta effect as well as higher PP consumption.

And you were thinking of Anti being the status effect thing. No, that's Regene, and it is very damn useful at all stages of the game; especially with freeze status and the like.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Velocity_7 on 2006-10-17 09:21 ]</font>

[galaxy]

oh...well in the beta reverser is a restore status effect spell...i dunno.

[donkeybeatz]

On 2006-10-17 09:22, galaxy wrote:
oh...well in the beta reverser is a restore status effect spell...i dunno.


You are correct, sir.

EDIT:OK maybe it is regene but you do need it in future missions like the Hakura Temple ones where robots explode all over the place burning people.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dj_D0NK3Y on 2006-10-17 09:26 ]</font>

[FrogKicker]

I didn't play a force so I won't comment on the attack spells. As for reverser, if thats the spell that removes debuffs, I am going to have to disagree with you. Many times playing the beta I cursed up a storm becuase I kept getting debuffed and didn't have a force to remove them from me.

[-Crokar-]

whats funny is that in my experience lvl 1 diga did more than a lvl 5 foie in every area i played in it also looks alot cooler.

[galaxy]

hmm ok. perhaps take reverser off the list. i just found that i hardly ever was hit with a status effect. Also, if in the end, diga does more than foie, I would switch the two. I just find it unnecessary to have two single hit early spells. I'd rather have a bullet or skill

[MoNoMaTe_MoNkEy]

Depending on the monster, my diga has done WAY more damage than Foie, yet sometimes viceversa on others.

[-Crokar-]

well my lvl 12 newman force's diga lvl 3 was doing almost as much as a 15 newman force's foie lvl 14

[Minswune]

Some of your info is a tad wrong /cough

Diga does more dmg than foie, though it's harder to aim/use, and reverser, if you played on neudaiz any, you'd know that place is hell regarding debuffs, freeze, burn, attack down, etc.

and regarding the others, personal choice http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Edit; nice to see someone posting spell info though.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Minswune on 2006-10-17 09:36 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Zonde comes later, in general. It doesn't show it's effectiveness as much, in the early game. That's because, for those certain monsters, Barta tends to be a better choice. Zonde hits multiple enemies, but as a starting Force, freezing the enemies in place is a better effect to use. Plus it stops attacks. (Though Rangers tend to be a little more effective at attack interrupts from the early game).

Still, you need to raise Barta as fast as possible, because it takes a little time to increase that Freeze Percentage. At first, it kind of sucks and freezes once in a figurative blue moon. But it saves PP by hitting multiple enemies for a fraction less than the Foie. Thus weakening them for the rest of the group. Until Status effect spells are implemented online, this will be the Force's main way to simulate a *defense down* aspect to the fighting group.

The main reason to find a good reason for a high level Zonde, in the future, is.....Like Barta, it hits multiple enemies. Has a great status effect on certain enemies, and costs a lot less PP than the wider-area spells. It still eventually does the great damage to a line with little cost. This gives the Force something to Spam and keep the PP high on the weapons. So technically, the single shot techniques never really get that obsolete.

I would agree, though. As far as the beta is concerned, Zonde is more or less, not what you want too early. A lot like PSO, where Zonde was *bleh* until you got to the Mines. A similar case here.

On another note. Diga may take PP fast, but man does it do early game damage on the Space Station and Parum monsters. It outdoes Foie for power, but the PP cost is....well. I guess you get what you paid for. A level 1 Diga does more damage than a Level 4 Foie. Still, I can use a whole lot more Foie from a wand than Diga as that Earth based Technique will drain you quick.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-10-17 09:45 ]</font>

[galaxy]

hmm...well, I see a point then in adding diga to the list. Still, I don't see a reason for zonde. sure, maybe it gets more effective later, but can it really do anything that razonde can't (besides hit in a line). i dunno, I'd just rather leave it out.

[Akaimizu]

It's all about PP cost. Razonde is very nice indeed, but cost is quite an important factor. A Force attack strategy is a combination of getting the best overall damage for the least amount of PP cost as well as damage vs. time. And if you're sharing with hunters, you want to balance that as well, just to make sure everybody shares EXP.

There's a lot of times when being selective saves a lot of PP and can have you going much further without a recharge. So if you can easily get the monsters to line up, Zonde would be the better choice, in that situation. That way, you can fire it off a few times, hit them all for that damage, and hardly see a dent in your weapon's PP amount. That way, you do the same amount of damage for little cost.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-10-17 09:51 ]</font>

[Skyly]

what! Diga, is a super good technic. I'm buying diga
I had lvl 9 Foie it was doing around 150
I got lvl 1 diga and it was doing 150 at lvl 1

[Ceresa]

Deega is the strongest single target atk in the game.

http://pages.prodigy.net/bienb/2360.JPG

Passing on it isn't such a good idea.

[Cross]

I don't think there are any techs that I'd feel safe about passing on. Rabarta probably comes closest, but only because Barta is so monstrously goddamn good that it seems a bit outclassed in comparison - even then though, I haven't used level 21+ Rabarta so the AoE might finally widen enough to make it consistently the stronger tech.

Zonde has a thinner projectile than Barta, but it also moves much faster, plus you definitely want it for when you run into Earth enemies. Plus Paralysis is a much more useful status effect than Freeze, in my opinion, since Freeze tends to get broken in less than five seconds and doesn't last any longer than ten even if you leave it alone; Paralysis will actually stick for a little while. Diga is (at least currently) the best single-target tech in the game versus any enemies that don't burn easily, and if you run into Lightning element enemies, the damage is a little bit sick. Regene/Reverser is a must; I'd bring it along just to fight worms, if for no other reason (and there are other reasons).

I haven't played with Gi techs enough to know whether they're worth getting even on a squishy Newman or not, but chances are I'd take them anyway, and the same goes for most of the ones we haven't seen.



On 2006-10-17 09:35, Akaimizu wrote:
On another note. Diga may take PP fast, but man does it do early game damage on the Space Station and Parum monsters. It outdoes Foie for power, but the PP cost is....well. I guess you get what you paid for. A level 1 Diga does more damage than a Level 4 Foie. Still, I can use a whole lot more Foie from a wand than Diga as that Earth based Technique will drain you quick.



Diga and Foie have the same cost.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-10-17 11:39 ]</font>

[SpishackCola]

If PSO is any indicator ST will make the game revolving around taking at least one of each element a necessity. While some areas will only be 2 of the 6 elements you know the others will be a mix of the 4 others. Reverser will be a huge help later in the game like it is in PSO (even though I had how they gave the name to a different spell)

[Saigan]

On 2006-10-17 11:35, SpishackCola wrote:
If PSO is any indicator ST will make the game revolving around taking at least one of each element a necessity. While some areas will only be 2 of the 6 elements you know the others will be a mix of the 4 others. Reverser will be a huge help later in the game like it is in PSO (even though I had how they gave the name to a different spell)



The spell names are actually getting closer to being what they were in the classic series. PSO actually butchered some spell names.

[Akaimizu]

On 2006-10-17 11:33, Cross wrote:
Diga and Foie have the same cost.


I'll have to test that out a bit more. It could've been the wand that I cast Diga from. I really only played with that spell, on the beta. But didn't have time to experiment a lot with swapping wand techs and such. I'll have to buy that on my offline game and compare the pluses and minuses.

One thing I did realize with Diga, is that I have to be more sure about when to use it. If the monster is moving around, they tend to dodge that rock a lot more often. That's probably why, in regular fighting, I ended up chewing up more PP with it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-10-17 11:46 ]</font>

[roygbiv]

So my experience from the beta seemed to indicate that if you wanted efficiency -> Damage/PP Foie/Diga/Barta/Zonde were the way to go.
If you were simply worried about kill speed for groups of enemies I guess the RA- technics would be the way to go. But they are awful as far as Damage/PP due to the cap for 3 enemies they can hit (Question: does this change at higher levels?)

So I would say ditch the RA series if you are concerned about PP efficiency.

[Numnuttz]

glad im not the only one that thinks deega is way better than foie when compared to dmg

[Vhex]

I think you'll be kicking yourself later for making this once you play non-beta. Deega > Foie. Zonde helps too.

[Cross]

On 2006-10-17 11:46, Akaimizu wrote:
One thing I did realize with Diga, is that I have to be more sure about when to use it. If the monster is moving around, they tend to dodge that rock a lot more often. That's probably why, in regular fighting, I ended up chewing up more PP with it.



Level 1-10 Diga has a really small hitbox, so you do end up whiffing a bit more unless the monster's coming right for you. At level 11, the rock it throws becomes like twice as big, and I find it just as easy (if not moreso) to hit with than 11-20 Foie.

[Mitz]

You're forgetting Dambarta. Why is it good?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJvP-eicbFM

[MoNoMaTe_MoNkEy]

These technics are the ones that are available online initially. Damubarta isn't.

[Maxurion]

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121659&forum=20&16

[SpishackCola]

On 2006-10-17 11:42, Saigan wrote:


On 2006-10-17 11:35, SpishackCola wrote:
If PSO is any indicator ST will make the game revolving around taking at least one of each element a necessity. While some areas will only be 2 of the 6 elements you know the others will be a mix of the 4 others. Reverser will be a huge help later in the game like it is in PSO (even though I had how they gave the name to a different spell)



The spell names are actually getting closer to being what they were in the classic series. PSO actually butchered some spell names.



Ah, my bad. Its been years since I've played the original PS series games heh http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Brittaintrail]

I have only the 360 beta and was very dissapointed in that i could not find a revive spell. Also in the beta there were only 10 spells. Is that all there will be in the full version or am i missing something.

[Itsuki]

you don't really need a revive spell. Moon and Cosmos (MoonX) atomizers are so abundant. There obviously will be more spells released over time. Who knows if the buff spells ever will though. They might significantly change the mechanics of a lot of things.

As for which spells to pass up, it might be better to say "which spells to focus on". But when it comes down to it, if you want to be the most efficient you can be, then you need to level all of them. Personally, I like to focus on a smaller number of spells. Especially as a wartecher or a guntecher, you'll need specific spells.

As a guntecher, I only actually have leveled Digga, RaDigga, Zonde, RaZonde, and RaBarta, and this is mainly because the monsters that have the highest physical defence and highest evade are either earth or lightning.

[afcakey]

On 2006-10-17 14:21, Itsuki-chan wrote:
As for which spells to pass up, it might be better to say "which spells to focus on". But when it comes down to it, if you want to be the most efficient you can be, then you need to level all of them. Personally, I like to focus on a smaller number of spells. Especially as a wartecher or a guntecher, you'll need specific spells.


Totally agree with you there. I think hes forgetting that you get a bonus for having spells of the same element equiped on the same weapon.

[pso123hrf]

Like most people have been saying, yes its better to spam a spell that does little damage, but save PP...I personally would bring single hit spells because its better to own 1 enemy, than miss a group with a silly Rafoie...

Also, how do you change the element of a rod/wand/card, and if I had a fire spell on a fire type weapon, what would happen? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Cross]

On 2006-10-17 14:21, Itsuki-chan wrote:
you don't really need a revive spell. Moon and Cosmos (MoonX) atomizers are so abundant.


Actually I hadn't thought of that, but yeah. That plus you generally don't want to plan for doing a lot of resurrecting anyway, since you'll tank your mission rewards. One or maybe two deaths in a tough mission is alright, but easily covered by items that you'll just pick up while you play. If you're dying more than that, you're doing something wrong anyway.

On the other hand, GiResta seems to have another regeneration effect built in, so who knows whether it's useful or not?

[Inspektahdek]

My low level diga has outdone my high foie on numerous occasions, especially the worm creatures on beta theres a 60 pt difference between the 2 and diga being the favor

check it

[Tetsuro]

I got my force to level 20, and ya, Diga kicks Foie's ass up and down the street in terms of damage. I got Foie to level 11 at which point it upgrades to a bigger fireball, and only got Diga to level 8.

I didn't bother with Zonde since there were no ground based enemies in the beta, which are weak to lightning, so I can't comment on that.

Barta is very useful when it comes to freezing enemies, but doesn't do much damage. It also seemed like it was the hardest to level of all the spells.

As far as the Ra spells go, from what I played, Rafoie is ok, Radiga kicks ass, and Rabarta is good.

Obviously Resta is useful and Reverser is as well.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

man, I'm gonna have trouble thinking this over with my guntecher newman. at least my human and beast don't have to worry about these as they're not gonna be forces.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-10-17 14:32, afcakey wrote:


On 2006-10-17 14:21, Itsuki-chan wrote:
As for which spells to pass up, it might be better to say "which spells to focus on". But when it comes down to it, if you want to be the most efficient you can be, then you need to level all of them. Personally, I like to focus on a smaller number of spells. Especially as a wartecher or a guntecher, you'll need specific spells.


Totally agree with you there. I think hes forgetting that you get a bonus for having spells of the same element equiped on the same weapon.



Amen

[FenixStryk]

Very informative post. I'll keep Diga and Barta in mind when I start using spells. Still a bit confused on the Whole Foie/Zonde thing, but ah well.

[NiteOwl]

Diga's awesome, for sure. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif At level 8 diga, I was doing 200+ damage to the dragon and it seemed to be hitting his wing most of the time because I didn't see the rock go sailing at all and I was a good distance away. It even works well if you want to get up close and personal with some of the shorter enemies, since it'll actually hit them then. Can't wait to see how big the projectile gets at level 11.

[Numnuttz]

wait til you see it at 21 its huge. well you can if you look for it in the moives/pics thread.

[Chaobo99]

tptally wrong...all those spells you will need I got zonde AND diga to lvl 11 and they get better than foie...well maybe same as barta...all my magics have a high elemental lvl and on my opinion..it could be a bug..the barta series are harder to increas in ELEMENT lvl not MAGIC LV...where as Diga starting from lv.7 for me went up to lv.3 and so on on its SILENCE ability...which came in very handy....

BUT as a force your goal is to have all magics at a high/decent lvl..my barta is lvl 5 and rabarta is lv.6 and both still maintain a LV.1 FREEZE...
as for my bow..the ice arrow is not something to pass up..I know you didnt list it but it came in handy..ALOT...

[Numnuttz]

hmmm with all this good stuff on the ice bow i have to make one now and try it out. since i wasnt able to make one in beta, i guess i lucked out.

[galaxy]

all of your posts have been informative and helpful.

i guess then, if you had to pass up on spells, the focus would ultimately lie in how you want to play (once all spells are released). I say this because i think it is almost impossible to deal damage, heal, buff, and debuff all perfectly, so people will begin to focus in various aspects. so, one force may take all damage spells (and resta, of course), but may leave out the buffs and debuffs, while another force might focus mostly in status effects and buffing, while only taking the essential damage spells.

i think in this way, you get that specialization i so crave for, but don't leave out anything your build might ultimately need.

[Itsuki]

Figured I'd also comment that Zonde is pretty much required if you ever level in hakura. Razonde is pretty much pointless there, and zonde tears it up hardcore.

Also buffs and debuffs aren't online yet, so thats not really a issue yet.

[NiteOwl]

Yeah, it's true that buffs and debuffs aren't online yet. But from what I saw on psupedia, there appear to be 6 spells for each of the 6 elements. And you only get 36 photon art slots, unless this increases at some point. So you'll have to bypass some of the spells if you want to use any weapon-based photon arts, yes? Or is there a way to "forget" a photon art you've learned?

[Ether]

On 2006-10-17 15:46, Inspektahdek wrote:
My low level diga has outdone my high foie on numerous occasions, especially the worm creatures on beta theres a 60 pt difference between the 2 and diga being the favor

Worms are fire element, of course diga does more



On 2006-10-17 21:42, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Figured I'd also comment that Zonde is pretty much required if you ever level in hakura. Razonde is pretty much pointless there, and zonde tears it up hardcore.

I use razonde there constantly, I hate zonde, am I weird? =/

Razonde does more damage too

[UltraDeeDer]

I aint saying I like Diga,
But she aint messing with no broke, broke, broke.