GAMEGARD WILL HAKK UR MACHINES ONOES!

[Miyoko]

The particular spyware installed by Phantasy Star Universe is the nProtect GameGuard. It has the intention of preventing people from cheating while playing Phantasy Star Universe, but spyware is still spyware.

nProtect GameGuard embeds itself into the Windows operating system itself, and constantly runs, monitoring your applications, whether or not you're playing Phantasy Star Universe. It auto-updates itself, and can restart your computer if it determines that you're using a hack. The nasty part is that in addition to spyware, nProtect GameGuard is a rootkit. It hides itself and Phantasy Star Universe from the operating system, making it impossible to uninstall without messing with the registry. Nice.

After discovering this, I'm seriously reconsidering playing Phantasy Star Universe. It's a damned shame, I was really looking forward to the game too.

... Paranoid nerds depress me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[DoubleJG]

That kid needs to either buy the PS2 or 360 version, or well, not plan on cheating XD

[Cross]

In fairness, that is a really shitty thing to have a program do, and there are games that manage to prevent cheating just fine without anything of the sort.

Not that I particularly mind; I don't really care what's installed on my gaming PC since everything important is stored elsewhere.

[Drown]

Good thing games come with an "uninstall" feature. Besides, I'm sure that reports of the nProtect are grossly exaggerated, just like every other thing on the internet.

[Garnet_Moon]

So how much of my system resources are going into this "Gameguard" thing? If it's a significant margain I may as well buy the PS2 version until I can get more ram.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-10-18 23:30 ]</font>

[Kurushii]

From the JP version I notice it takes up ~5mb of ram. So really nothing. And why is people bugging when it is only running when the game is active...

[February]

Man that guy is such an idiot http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Drown]

On 2006-10-18 23:35, Kurushii wrote:
From the JP version I notice it takes up ~5mb of ram. So really nothing. And why is people bugging when it is only running when the game is active...



Because it is SPYWAAAAREEE... OOOH(waves hands around like a ghost).

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-10-18 23:35, Kurushii wrote:
From the JP version I notice it takes up ~5mb of ram. So really nothing. And why is people bugging when it is only running when the game is active...


ah, good to know. Gameguard is a new term to me.

[Undubbed]

Uh...who excatly said that?

[Kurushii]

after re-reading that quote. where in the hell did the person get this info. The gameguard program only executes when Offline Mode or Online Mode are selected on the main menu (it only checks for updates when it is executed this way). It doesn't restart your computer when it thinks you are hacking. It brings up a error message on PSU and instantly shuts it down. =.=

[Cojiro]

Sounds like something a friend of mine would say to make me not play XD
I honestly don't mind being monitored in game for cheating. The rest of the time I'll be using a mac so it makes no diffrence to me XD

[Drown]

On 2006-10-18 23:42, Kurushii wrote:
after re-reading that quote. where in the hell did the person get this info. The gameguard program only executes when Offline Mode or Online Mode are selected on the main menu (it only checks for updates when it is executed this way). It doesn't restart your computer when it thinks you are hacking. It brings up a error message on PSU and instantly shuts it down. =.=



See what I meant? Exaggerated. You can't believe these things you read on the net... Except for me... You can trust me.

[UniKoRn]

If petty little things like that stop people from playing games, they should just gtfo the internet too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

PSU is PSU.. I don't care what it takes to play it! I'd sell Sonic Team my soul http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Kurushii]

hmm...so if I buy stock of SEGA...does that mean I own a part of your soul too.. /slur

[Drown]

On 2006-10-18 23:52, Kurushii wrote:
hmm...so if I buy stock of SEGA...does that mean I own a part of your soul too.. /slur



Hands off, that soul is MINE!

[Ryogen]

I don't believe it. Sounds like it's just somthing someone is spreading around.

[StanleyPain]

GameGuard is not spyware. Spyware is software that quietly installs itself on your system and then monitors aspects of your system not related to the original software itself, then reports the data back for the purpose of harvesting, typically, marketing information and other such things. Everything that GameGuard does is related to it's function: the security of an online network relating to a MMORPG. It doesn't do anything it's not supposed to and the only people who should be afraid of it are hackers. This is why GameGuard DOES NOT show up on most major spyware/malware lists and is not automatically disabled by such programs.

This is in stark contrast to things like, say, WildTangent, which skirts the line between online security and pure spyware, which is why a lot of anti-spyware programs disable it.
But GameGuard is doing it's job.....and it does nothing unethical in the process. No one should care except cheaters.

[Garnet_Moon]

Does Gameguard show up on Adaware or Spybot? I run those every night and just have everything that pops up erased. Will I need to uncheck anything for each time I run those with Gameguard installed, or will it be OK?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-10-19 00:14 ]</font>

[SpishackCola]

Pssh, gameguard/nprotect do nothing. Go download almost any Korean MMO. Odds are quite favorable that they use it, and I haven't heard about massive, panic inducing problems from it.

[DraginHikari]

Oh for the love of... >>

[Kurushii]

I have never seen it show up on those programs Garnet_Moon. Course I doubt you will be able to run Adaware or Spybot while playing PSU being they search through memory (which gameguard will most likely think you are trying to hack). But it is fine to run those when the game is off. Doesn't effect anything.

[Mikaga]

Most of what GameGuard does is things like preventing API (I think) injections into the program process, preventing memory editors altering client-side values and blocking a bunch of macro-based input (so no macros for the fastest possible 3-hit combo, for example).

It does act in similar nature to a rootkit especially in the way that the GameGuard process hides itself within other processes to avoid easy termination. This unfortunately does open your machine up to some incredibly unlikely but equally dangerous threats.

All that said, GameGuard itself is not known for being terribly effective. So long as the game's hosts are able to have their user clients update to the latest revisions AND providing they keep track of any bypasses so they can discover how to block those, it is a remarkable tool for preventing even seasoned "hackers". Failing that, it will still prevent all low-level forms of cheating but there are groups out there (some of which you may know of) that make a habit of breaking GameGuard for kicks in Blue Burst, and you can be sure they'll go at it again for Universe.

[MasterChuck]

GameGuard's really quite easy to bypass with any hacking knowledge and a UCE at your disposal. But you are right in that if it detects an outdated cheat engine or hack that its revision has been set to block then it can and will restart your PC or give you a blue screen of death (in most instances BSOD).

[Zato-2TWO]

But...but, guys! You're not seeing the bigger picture! Sega's not letting us CHEAT!

FASCISM I TELL YOU. =O!

[Melora]

As long as it doesn't mess with other illegal things like limewire or downloaded photoshop, this is good news.

[Thrash777]

Well, this is good news for two reasons:

1) Stops people from messing around trying to cheat/hack

2) Some PC people may now choose the 360 version! YAY! ^_^

[Fleece]

On 2006-10-18 23:53, Drown wrote:


On 2006-10-18 23:52, Kurushii wrote:
hmm...so if I buy stock of SEGA...does that mean I own a part of your soul too.. /slur



Hands off, that soul is MINE!



I AM Sega!!!!!

[krika]

On 2006-10-19 05:38, Thrash777 wrote:
Well, this is good news for two reasons:

1) Stops people from messing around trying to cheat/hack

2) Some PC people may now choose the 360 version! YAY! ^_^



Some people may now stay with the PC version cuz it's CRAZY safe with the Game guard.

[Fleece]

It isnt, people hack it to @!#$. Im hoping the server side saving has SOME sort of file contingency checking, You know where it checks to see if everything is alright and legal and that some $#! didnt just RAM Hack his game and make a Tsumikiri J Sword spawn on a Rank C mission off a !@$!@ enemy.

Edit (A2K): Turn it doowwwn a notch.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-10-19 06:25 ]</font>

[Halcyon17]

The j-swords in psu? Do you have proof? ^-^

[February]

On 2006-10-19 00:14, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Does Gameguard show up on Adaware or Spybot? I run those every night and just have everything that pops up erased. Will I need to uncheck anything for each time I run those with Gameguard installed, or will it be OK?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-10-19 00:14 ]</font>


I've never had it pop up so it should be fine.

[Genobee]

On 2006-10-18 23:18, Miyoko wrote:


The particular spyware installed by Phantasy Star Universe is the nProtect GameGuard. It has the intention of preventing people from cheating while playing Phantasy Star Universe, but spyware is still spyware.

nProtect GameGuard embeds itself into the Windows operating system itself, and constantly runs, monitoring your applications, whether or not you're playing Phantasy Star Universe. It auto-updates itself, and can restart your computer if it determines that you're using a hack. The nasty part is that in addition to spyware, nProtect GameGuard is a rootkit. It hides itself and Phantasy Star Universe from the operating system, making it impossible to uninstall without messing with the registry. Nice.

After discovering this, I'm seriously reconsidering playing Phantasy Star Universe. It's a damned shame, I was really looking forward to the game too.

... Paranoid nerds depress me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



lawl... welcoem to online gaming. Ever game from Gunbound to WoW uses this tech. He neeed to learn some thing.

[kirinano]

On 2006-10-18 23:38, Drown wrote:


On 2006-10-18 23:35, Kurushii wrote:
From the JP version I notice it takes up ~5mb of ram. So really nothing. And why is people bugging when it is only running when the game is active...



Because it is SPYWAAAAREEE... OOOH(waves hands around like a ghost).



Hehehe, that made me smile.

[Coxy]

On 2006-10-18 23:38, Drown wrote:


On 2006-10-18 23:35, Kurushii wrote:
From the JP version I notice it takes up ~5mb of ram. So really nothing. And why is people bugging when it is only running when the game is active...



Because it is SPYWAAAAREEE... OOOH(waves hands around like a ghost).



+1 comedy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Blitzkommando]

It's still better than the implementation of some games that have adware/spyware that isn't even used to prevent cheating.

[NeuroNomad]

Yeah such as Battlefield 2142 which was released the other day has build in adware to push user directed ingame ads. Talk about lame.

[tyler2zelda]

Gameguard doesn't so anything XD MapleStory uses it. ROSE Online uses it. I don't know if ANYONE doesn't use it. It works like you'd expect it; good and it's not spyware. It doesn't show up on Ad-aware when its on either, because it's not spyware.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

I got a question for you nay sayers

Why the f**k would sega care about what porn you are looking at? Get over yourselves, sega doesnt give a shit about you only your money

The only possible reason you can be whining is becase YOU hack and this prevents you from doing it, owned



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-19 11:30 ]</font>

[ethanhawkeye]

On 2006-10-19 11:29, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
I got a question for you nay sayers

Why the f**k would sega care about what porn you are looking at? Get over yourselves, sega doesnt give a shit about you only your money

The only possible reason you can be whining is becase YOU hack and this prevents you from doing it, owned



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-19 11:30 ]</font>


lol

[adamgnome104]

If there weren't idiots like that there wouldn't be anyone to laugh at.

[Tystys]

Yeah.
SEGA did that. Who else is that fucking addicted to Sonic? I mean come on! People aren't that screwed up!

*laughs than cuts the head off an orphan*

[Draugar]

On 2006-10-19 06:12, heavenly6 wrote:


On 2006-10-19 00:14, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Does Gameguard show up on Adaware or Spybot? I run those every night and just have everything that pops up erased. Will I need to uncheck anything for each time I run those with Gameguard installed, or will it be OK?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-10-19 00:14 ]</font>


I've never had it pop up so it should be fine.



As far as my understanding goes, Spybot Search and Destroy (the program I use and I believe to be quite common) uses downloaded definitions updated directly from the SBSAD server to search for recognised spy/adware, this can be anything from cookies to registry entries and (through my experience) doesn’t pick up on anything not on the definitions list, so I can't see it causing any issues

[SethWhiteFox]

Well I dont plan on playing the pc version or cheating so doesent really matter for me.
XD

By the way Hi everyone! First post sence SmashBoards! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[BioWarrior]

I had recently pre-ordered PSU for PC.... but I heard Gameguard can make your PC vulnerable to certain stuff. Think its a big deal? Kinda worried about my PC security.

[Axios-]

Gameguard isn't a problem. Paranoia, on the other hand, is. You'll be fine with it.

[BioWarrior]

Ya I'm a bit paranoid but better to be safe then sorry. D:

[Axios-]

It's always good to be safe, but, judging by your concern with PC safety, I'd guess that you'll be taking care of your PC either way. Personally, I've never had a problem with Gameguard. The only complaints I had heard was that it was ineffective in stopping cheaters. This whole 'making PCs vulnerable' thing is new to me.