Do you think companys like IGE will ruin this game? [Archive]

BioWarrior

Oct 20, 2006, 03:40 PM

On 2006-10-20 13:37, Cross wrote:
No, because RMT doesn't ruin games. It can expose how bad a game actually is, but it doesn't actually make the game worse.

If PSU is less fun because of it, then we'll all know that PSU isn't as good of a game as we all think it is http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Well.... on games like FFXI RMT was bad because they would PK others for rare monsters/NMs. They would even PK OTHER RMT. There have even been instances on FFXI where RMT had lost claim on a monster and GMs have given claim back to them because enough of them complained and called it theft.

FenixStryk

Oct 20, 2006, 03:40 PM

I doubt they'll try to make money off of us. Not enough demand. Besides, this is more of a casual game. Not enough rares (yet), and not much of an impact if you get one, besides showing it off to about 5 people a day.

Tystys

Oct 20, 2006, 03:46 PM

While Meseta is a commodity now, it's not EXTREMELY hard to get. There are people who spent over 10 K on weapons in the first day alone.

Garnet_Moon

Oct 20, 2006, 03:46 PM

I can see RMT farming for the super rare items and selling them, and then people buying meseta to afford it. It took me a week to get a Hildeblue Cane for my FOnewearl, and i've heard horror stories of months for certain items back in the day. I don't know how many Del Sabers I had to go through to get my Del Saber parts, but it was alot.

To me the wait on the rare drops make them that much more delicious, but I can see people who aren't as patient or savor the hunt like me and would buy meseta. That's just sad. The hunt is so much fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Spellbinder

Oct 20, 2006, 03:48 PM

Assuming they did try, there are no "get rich quick" methods such as others have mentioned such as uber high end game equipment you have to camp for like in FFXI and other games. You'd either have to run a given mission with a decent meseta reward non-stop around the clock on multiple computers (not exaggerating), or be the ultimate player of the market. In either instance, I doubt they could gather together enough money to be considered worth selling to a large number of people, or even a small number of people.

BioWarrior

Oct 20, 2006, 03:50 PM

On 2006-10-20 13:48, Spellbinder wrote:
Assuming they did try, there are no "get rich quick" methods such as others have mentioned such as uber high end game equipment you have to camp for like in FFXI and other games. You'd either have to run a given mission with a decent meseta reward non-stop around the clock on multiple computers (not exaggerating), or be the ultimate player of the market. In either instance, I doubt they could gather together enough money to be considered worth selling to a large number of people, or even a small number of people.

Ah that reminds me, I forgot alot of RMT groups on FFXI for example is just 1 person controlling them all, and lets face it, that just can't be done on PSU.

Earthsunderer

Oct 20, 2006, 03:51 PM

Well, they tried it on Guild Wars, and the game still runs normally. And Guild Wars with its instanced PvE mission system is nearly the same as Phantasy Star Universe.

Of course, there was a huge limit to how much money you even could have, and what items where wanted.

Aphael

Oct 20, 2006, 04:29 PM

Even if RMT did establish a foothold in PSU, it wouldn't be a game killer, since there's no central economy. It butchered XI because it drove AH prices up, because *everyone* used that AH. In PSU, everyone has their own shop, and so if a few people run to a couple shops and throw a few hundred million meseta at items, those shop owners might inflate, but everyone else, who wouldn't have known anything about the transaction, will continue on their merry way. So sure, there may be folks your level running around carrying a weapon worth more than your soul, but that's not going to kill your game any more than a duper would have in the original PSO.

Even less, now, because there are less people willing to throw real money at in game goods than there are people willing to hack them, and because of that happy little "Kick" option. Praise be.

Valkayree

Oct 20, 2006, 04:33 PM

On 2006-10-20 13:26, Soulwatcher19 wrote:
After three long years of RMT hell in FFXI, do you think the same thing will happen with PSU? I would really hate to see some one buying in game money for real world money.

Because of the RMT in FFXI the inflation is through the roof with no end in sight. Some items that were 30k gill are now 3,000,000 gill. It makes it impossible for the liget players to get ahead. I checked IGE's website and so far so good! PSU is not listed.

Soulwatcher

Yeah but 500 gold in WoW is a lot of gold... How does Blizzard do it? Oh wait, Square Enix is in the RMT's pockets...

Aaomi

Oct 20, 2006, 05:34 PM

Having played FFXI and WoW, all I can say is, I hope not.

Miphesto

Oct 20, 2006, 05:38 PM

it's hard to say wether or not psu is popular enough to attract companies like IGE...but if it is, you KNOW ige will have thier fingers in it if there is a profit....

i love selling online commodities...i rarely play games that dont have monetary gain....selling you account at the end once ur done with it is the reward for playing for me..i've done it on every game i've played....since diablo, to swg....to wow....but i doubt psu will have any money in it...

i patronize sites like ige as well...i try not to...but sometimes if u need something, u can just buy it...and i have the money so i just do sometimes...especially now that i dont have as much time to play...

but you know, games are starting to make it harder to get good stuff just by buying it...in wow, u cant really get 'that good' of gear from just buying stuff...all the best shit came from raiding....

BioWarrior

Oct 20, 2006, 05:43 PM

Thats what you would call a Challenge, many people find it appealing.

Wallin

Oct 20, 2006, 05:52 PM

In games like WoW, RMT is not as unbelievable as it sounds. You could grind solo, but that would be incredibly boring since it's not real time like PSU, it's 'click the button and wait until you win'. Then you could go to a dungeon, but it takes a while to find a group and then running the actual dungeon would take hours, and for casual gamers who only have a couple of hours a night to play (if they're lucky) and maybe one day out of the weekend, it's not that unreasonable to want to pay so you can actually get to the more "fun" parts of the game... until you hit 60 and realize the game is even more boring, but that's besides the point.

Thankfully PSU is not like those games. You can easily play PSU in short bursts. You go to the counter, create a mission and solo, or find a mission among dozens of already made games you can just jump into, whereas in WoW you have to stand in the main cities for an hour trying to form a party of 5-40 people just to have half of them leave after an hour for RL stuff and then you're advertising for more members while the rest of your remaining party is getting antsy. PSU is fun and fast - perfect for any casual players.

There's nothing on PSU really worth buying with money. It doesn't take all that long to rank up and expert class, and leveling itself honestly doesn't take that long. As far as I know, you can't buy Partner Machinery. And money is so easy to get, do a couple missions in like 10-20 minutes, get S rank, you've got a thousand or so, and if you did it all solo, you made probably twice as much.

Callous

Oct 20, 2006, 05:57 PM

Eh, most PSO players take pride in finding their own stuff and, as others have pointed out, the system is completely different from MMORPGs. I bet you'll be able to spot people who bought or otherwise cheated their way into stuff from a mile off from their behaviour anyway. Just don't play with them.

Cause_I_Own_U

Oct 20, 2006, 05:58 PM

Heres a question, why would the farmers come waste there time here when they can make more money farming on WoW

Parn

Oct 20, 2006, 06:01 PM

On 2006-10-20 15:58, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Heres a question, why would the farmers come waste there time here when they can make more money farming on WoW
Because there are enough dumbasses on the planet that are waiting to be exploited. I remember quite clearly when people bought units of 10,000 meseta on PSO when it first released on Dreamcast back in 2001 over Ebay.

Jools

Oct 20, 2006, 06:31 PM

As an experienced player of the Japanese version, I can tell you than money is incredibly important in this game. In fact, there's already been one person in the IRC channel begging to buy meseta for real dollars. This could most definitely be an issue.

-Jools

Garroway

Oct 20, 2006, 07:00 PM

I think that the important point here is that the RMT market can exist within PSU without damaging the game to severely. Final Fantasy XI had 2 distinct differences that allowed RMT to have the devastating effect that it did. They have both already been mentioned. The first being the auction house centeralised economy that proved overly suseptible to inflation, especialy with even mundane equipment being purchased almost soley by autions. The second being the rare named mobs that the RMT companies would control to the point that legitimate players simply could not get to kill.

The basic archetecture of PSU is different from most games of this nature. With everything being instanced, the RMT presence should not be a disruptive one as they will not be able to prevent anyone from making meseta in the same manner in which they do. Also, most mundane purchases will be made from server run shops as apposed to an auction house. Player run shops will have an impact on the economy but basic equipment will not be affected by inflation.

BioWarrior

Oct 20, 2006, 07:03 PM

Inflation wont be anywhere close to as bad as FFXI as well since PMs need to eat items to grow, thus reducing the amount there are. That and the fact we now have the option to buy from a shop if we can't make our own.

Bleemo

Oct 20, 2006, 07:18 PM

If RMT is available for PSU, PSU is still suseptible to inflation.

I'm a firm believer that RMT's don't ruin the economy by causing monopolies on items, I believe it is their interest to undercut even the lowest sellers of an item in order to meet supply and demand for the currency they are selling. To rely on a system like the auction house takes too much time in order to stock on the currency they are selling, so for a game like FFXI, it really wouldn't be surprising if they actually sold many farmed items to actual venders, like fish from fishing for an example. Auction houses are always sporadic; RMT's need a simple, quick, static source of income in order to obtain money quickly. Most of the time waiting for an auction to sell at a high price would waste valuable time getting the money they need, so it would only be natural to sell said found item at the lowest possible price.

The reason PSU would be suseptible to inflation is because the community that actually pays money for in-game currency is larger than most people assume. It isn't just a small group of individuals worth flaming, it's usually people very close to you who you enjoy playing with. Over time there will be a larger pool of currency floating around the game and in everyone's pockets, it will eventually causes prices for items in personal shops to raise, thus making it harder for players to purchase items from other players without buying currency themselves.

It's still up in the air as to whether or not RMT's will actually be involved in PSU, but it will still cause us unwelcomed problems if they do decide to participate.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-10-20 17:19 ]

BioWarrior

Oct 20, 2006, 07:21 PM

On 2006-10-20 17:18, Bleemo wrote:
If RMT is available for PSU, PSU is still suseptible to inflation.

I'm a firm believer that RMT's don't ruin the economy by causing monopolies on items, I believe it is their interest to undercut even the lowest sellers of an item in order to meet supply and demand for the currency they are selling. To rely on a system like the auction house takes too much time in order to stock on the currency they are selling, so for a game like FFXI, it really wouldn't be surprising if they actually sold many farmed items to actual venders, like fish from fishing for an example. Auction houses are always sporadic; RMT's need a simple, quick, static source of income in order to obtain money quickly. Most of the time waiting for an auction to sell at a high price would waste valuable time getting the money they need, so it would only be natural to sell said found item at the lowest possible price.

The reason PSU would be suseptible to inflation is because the community that actually pays money for in-game currency is larger than most people assume. It isn't just a small group of individuals worth flaming, it's usually people very close to you who you enjoy playing with. Over time there will be a larger pool of currency floating around the game and in everyone's pockets, it will eventually causes prices for items in personal shops to raise, thus making it harder for players to purchase items from other players without buying currency themselves.

It's still up in the air as to whether or not RMT's will actually be involved in PSU, but it will still cause us unwelcomed problems if they do decide to participate.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-10-20 17:19 ]

RMT control the market by controlling the only monsters that drop what they are selling, then they over price it to high hell, and people have to buy gil from them so they can afford the item the RMT are selling. Its an endless cycle.

Last Christmas many items went from 6,000,000 gil to 30,000,000 even just because RMT held a huge sale on money even.

[ This Message was edited by: BioWarrior on 2006-10-20 17:22 ]

Bleemo

Oct 20, 2006, 07:27 PM

On 2006-10-20 17:21, BioWarrior wrote:
RMT control the market by controlling the only monsters that drop what they are selling, then they over price it to high hell, and people have to buy gil from them so they can afford the item the RMT are selling. Its an endless cycle.

That's not entirely true.

Dosens of players can actually camp NM's and obtain the items from them, they just have a lot of competition. Even so, the items that drop off the NM's are usually not the one's being sold. Most of the said items are from players giving up their current copies of that item for currency. When they do, they wish to obtain as much money as possible from that item so they will inflate it themselves for their own greed. Once the farmers obtain the item, they will most likely try to sell it as quick as possible, which would be to undercut.

I will say again: I firmly believe farmers do not control the auction house. I don't even think they try. Players are the ones that inflate the price of items themselves; they are the ones that actually obtain the items before anyone else, I.E. farmers. Farmers only follow suit after finding out how profitable camping the item can be.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-10-20 17:28 ]

Garroway

Oct 20, 2006, 07:52 PM

Actualy Bleemo, you're correct about the RMT companies not controling the auction house. The market inflation (and just to be clear we're all using the term inflation incorrectly) of the Auction House is player induced.

RMTs were an enormous factor in the overall economical fall of Final Fantasy XI. Enormous enough that I believe that the economy would ot be viewed as broken today if RMTs were never involved. The question here is wether they have potential to ruin PSU in the same fashion and I do not believe they do. Their impact on economy will only affect Player run shops. There will be no competetion with RMTs for named mobs and no inflated auction house pricing for mundane items.

Also if you want to discuss economics I would be more than happy to in a more appropriate setting.

Miphesto

Oct 20, 2006, 08:12 PM

anyone who has the ability to purchase in-game currency, has or will in the future buy at some point...bleemo is right.... you'd be surprised at the amount of ppl that buy in-game currency....i'd say something like 65%+ wow players have bought it at some time or another

NeuroNomad

Oct 20, 2006, 08:30 PM

On 2006-10-20 13:51, Earthsunderer wrote:
Well, they tried it on Guild Wars, and the game still runs normally. And Guild Wars with its instanced PvE mission system is nearly the same as Phantasy Star Universe.

Of course, there was a huge limit to how much money you even could have, and what items where wanted.

I agree that it didn't hurt GW economy and like PSU there isn't a big need to purchase gold/plat in GW, yet IGE and the likes still sell enough for them to keep GW stuff stocked.

Kaply

Oct 20, 2006, 08:47 PM

I wonder how many of you actually are in the higher end of Guild Wars where you're needing superior runes and all the HoF (?) drops. Those cost a hefty sum. I'm also pretty sure most people will have a lot of problems making meseta in PSU when it gets released. I think the meseta problem will become even worse as time goes on because players will have access to the advanced classes early and will want to play around with A or S rank weapons. 8 job levels to get to the mixed classes.

AnamanaAU

Oct 20, 2006, 08:51 PM

IGE? RMT? What are these?

Tystys

Oct 20, 2006, 08:53 PM

On 2006-10-20 18:12, Miphesto wrote:
anyone who has the ability to purchase in-game currency, has or will in the future buy at some point...bleemo is right.... you'd be surprised at the amount of ppl that buy in-game currency....i'd say something like 65%+ wow players have bought it at some time or another

I don't think I'd really be surprised considering the fact that there are tons of advertisements for these kind of things on alot of other gaming sites.

Also, they wouldn't really be having their sites still up if it wasn't successful, O_O

Q_Anon

Oct 20, 2006, 08:57 PM

Well, for inflation all we can do is hope that NPCs keep getting updated items to sell so they continue to take money out of the game.

AnamanaAU

Oct 20, 2006, 09:00 PM

Oh, "Real Money Trading".

MXdude

Oct 20, 2006, 09:20 PM

On 2006-10-20 13:37, BioWarrior wrote:
Sad thing though is theres ALWAYS an idiot that buys.... and buying digital data for a game you already own is just stupid IMO.

I agree, thats why i have never, and will never buy anythign from the XBL marketplace. Thats also why i never buy expansion packs.

Shrevn

Oct 20, 2006, 09:22 PM

Chinese farmers didnt ruin WOW... hence WOW isnt ruined so i dont know wtf you're talking about... but i can tell you this much... If they can figure out a way to make money out of it, you will see them trying to no doubt. Will they succed? probably not

Hajile

Oct 20, 2006, 09:37 PM

~kindda off-topic~

This is a intresting article about congress thinking about putting taxes on virtual econmies :

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061016-7997.html

Bleemo

Oct 20, 2006, 09:38 PM

On 2006-10-20 19:20, MXdude wrote:

On 2006-10-20 13:37, BioWarrior wrote:
Sad thing though is theres ALWAYS an idiot that buys.... and buying digital data for a game you already own is just stupid IMO.

I agree, thats why i have never, and will never buy anythign from the XBL marketplace. Thats also why i never buy expansion packs.

I wouldn't call people "idiots" for buying gaming currency. I can give you a long, drawn out philosophical conclusion as to why RMTing is not morally wrong except for violating the EULA of a game, but I don't want to have to get into that unless we absolutely can't avoid it.

Most likely, if you've played FFXI, WoW, Lineage II, whatever online game RMT is popular in, someone close to you or someone who you would simply never call an idiot has bought gaming currency.

The community of people that actually buy gaming currency is very large. Larger than you can imagine. Such that it takes up a very hefty percentage of players of each game, especially including those players that you respect and enjoy playing with.

Garroway

Oct 20, 2006, 09:49 PM

On 2006-10-20 19:37, Hajile wrote:
~kindda off-topic~

This is a intresting article about congress thinking about putting taxes on virtual econmies :

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061016-7997.html

Interesting read. I know enough about politics to be worried.

Yoiyami

Oct 20, 2006, 10:00 PM

On 2006-10-20 19:49, Garroway wrote:

On 2006-10-20 19:37, Hajile wrote:
~kindda off-topic~

This is a intresting article about congress thinking about putting taxes on virtual econmies :

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061016-7997.html

Interesting read. I know enough about politics to be worried.

....I'm not sure I understand...

But the main thing I was looking for was them taxing monthly fees. The only thing I can think it'd cause problems for is RMT. The only other thing that I can think of is more games, even ones with monthly fees, setting up a cash shop. Taxes included. THAT is scary.

Garroway

Oct 20, 2006, 10:36 PM

Worse case scenerio is that virtual possessions could start being viewd as real life assets. It's somethiing worthy of keeping an eye on.

FenixStryk

Oct 20, 2006, 10:39 PM

This thread's still going? There's little to no threat, since there's little to no profit to be made. Move on with your lives, knowing that PSU will not be a spawning ground for moneystealing savages and power gaming buffoons. We are safe!

McLaughlin

Oct 20, 2006, 10:40 PM

Good thing Canada doesn't have an IRS >_>

Bleemo

Oct 20, 2006, 10:40 PM

On 2006-10-20 20:00, Yoiyami wrote:
The only other thing that I can think of is more games, even ones with monthly fees, setting up a cash shop.

If you're talking about the actual game companies themselves making an RMT system, it's already been done. SoE has already done it with Everquest II. I believe they have created a server specifically with the ability to purchase money, items, or whatever.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the very least I know they were discussing it as there was an interview, even though this was a long time ago.

NeuroNomad

Oct 20, 2006, 10:45 PM

On 2006-10-20 18:47, Kaply wrote:
I wonder how many of you actually are in the higher end of Guild Wars where you're needing superior runes and all the HoF (?) drops. Those cost a hefty sum. I'm also pretty sure most people will have a lot of problems making meseta in PSU when it gets released. I think the meseta problem will become even worse as time goes on because players will have access to the advanced classes early and will want to play around with A or S rank weapons. 8 job levels to get to the mixed classes.

20 W/Mo PVE - 15k Armor with superior runes. The game isn't hard to make money in. In WoW and EQ2 I can understand gold buying, but not in GW.

FenixStryk

Oct 20, 2006, 10:47 PM

On 2006-10-20 20:40, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-10-20 20:00, Yoiyami wrote:
The only other thing that I can think of is more games, even ones with monthly fees, setting up a cash shop.

If you're talking about the actual game companies themselves making an RMT system, it's already been done. SoE has already done it with Everquest II. I believe they have created a server specifically with the ability to purchase money, items, or whatever.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the very least I know they were discussing it as there was an interview, even though this was a long time ago.

SOE runs a 1st-party RMT system for EQ2. i know because I lost my clan to it. Why didn't you go to WoW or wait for PSU?! WHY!!!?

Kaply

Oct 20, 2006, 10:56 PM

On 2006-10-20 20:45, NeuroNomad wrote:

On 2006-10-20 18:47, Kaply wrote:
I wonder how many of you actually are in the higher end of Guild Wars where you're needing superior runes and all the HoF (?) drops. Those cost a hefty sum. I'm also pretty sure most people will have a lot of problems making meseta in PSU when it gets released. I think the meseta problem will become even worse as time goes on because players will have access to the advanced classes early and will want to play around with A or S rank weapons. 8 job levels to get to the mixed classes.

20 W/Mo PVE - 15k Armor with superior runes. The game isn't hard to make money in. In WoW and EQ2 I can understand gold buying, but not in GW.

15k armor is like early game, FoW+ armor is where it's at.

Cross

Oct 20, 2006, 11:00 PM

On 2006-10-20 20:56, Kaply wrote:
15k armor is like early game, FoW+ armor is where it's at.

You're aware that FoW armour is exactly the same as 1.5k armour, right? There's a difference between expensive things that have literally no benefit to you and expensive things that actually improve your character (whether it's +1 or +1000 to any given stat).

Killuminati

Oct 20, 2006, 11:27 PM

If hackers are able to hack the game anyway it won't be an issue. I di hope that niether hackers or rmt have an effect on this game.

Ryogen

Oct 20, 2006, 11:42 PM

I highly dout it it would suceed, but I'm pretty sure they will try.

BioWarrior

Oct 22, 2006, 12:59 PM

RMT are now trying to sell meseta on JP PSU. Found this on a JP upload site.

http://moemi.mithra.to/~psu/uploader/src/psu0170.jpg

LordHakutsuru

Oct 22, 2006, 01:01 PM

Google Syndication FTW~

My last post about Adblock has been modded, so no link for j00!

Rina

Oct 22, 2006, 01:27 PM

I don't know about JP PSU servers, but I think the community I see so far thats going to play PSU on our servers seems to be the type of people who wouldn't even bother looking twice at RMT items / money. They'd want to earn there own items and money and wouldn't bother buying anything like that. (at least I know I wouldn't buy crap in a game for real money... and I'd hope the same for the rest of u XD~ lol)

You guys all seem to be they type of customers RMT people would hate XD. And like an earlyer poster said, it's really a cult game, I've told people about PSU and they are like "whats that?"

[ This Message was edited by: Rina on 2006-10-22 11:28 ]

Tatsurou

Oct 22, 2006, 01:41 PM

I think it's inevitable that eventually people will sell items/meseta etc. online, but because of how PSO works (No AH or mail -- as BioWarrior mentioned), it won't be too much of a problem, and I never thought that RMT ruins a game's economy anyway.

Wheatpenny

Oct 22, 2006, 01:41 PM

I came from FFXI also and those gill-farming dirtbags ruined that game.The beauty of PSO/PSU is the fact that it is instanced.Meaning no money farming ding-dong can get into my game and take it away from me and whatever group is with me since everything is random.And something random can not be controled thus the farmers can't reliably be able to produce demand items.Furthermore, meaning the moneyfarmers of IGE and similar companys can go stick it LOL.

BioWarrior

Oct 22, 2006, 01:44 PM

On 2006-10-22 11:41, Tatsurou wrote:
I think it's inevitable that eventually people will sell items/meseta etc. online, but because of how PSO works (No AH or mail -- as BioWarrior mentioned), it won't be too much of a problem, and I never thought that RMT ruins a game's economy anyway.

If there was one game that RMT ruined... It was FFXI, especially when they learned how to dupe gil.

Wheatpenny

Oct 22, 2006, 01:48 PM

Hey Bio Warrior. let us not forget how fun it was to camp an O.Kote.Dunnow if you tried or not on your server.....I say good ridance hello PSU lol

[ This Message was edited by: Wheatpenny on 2006-10-22 11:48 ]

BioWarrior

Oct 22, 2006, 01:54 PM

Uggh ya.... the kote and moldavite earring was horrible... tons of people would sit around AFK and have a 3rd party program claim it and kill it for them. >.>

PandaMasterX4

Oct 22, 2006, 01:55 PM

I think it's possible, just I hope not.

Kaply

Oct 22, 2006, 01:59 PM

On 2006-10-20 21:00, Cross wrote:

On 2006-10-20 20:56, Kaply wrote:
15k armor is like early game, FoW+ armor is where it's at.

You're aware that FoW armour is exactly the same as 1.5k armour, right? There's a difference between expensive things that have literally no benefit to you and expensive things that actually improve your character (whether it's +1 or +1000 to any given stat).

To a lot of people the aesthetics of the more expensive armors was what they were collecting for. The same holds true in this game. I'm sure a lot of people in this game want the whitill wings even though they have no idea what the stats are.

Jasam

Oct 22, 2006, 02:32 PM

FF11 is possably the greatest example of how RMT can cause problems.

PSU however doesn't suffer from the three greatest issues.

The biggest being NMs, by camping them, and the rare drops they got, RMT had a manopaly on the item and could inflate prices to what ever they pleased. (Causing inflation, AND making then gil which they would sell to someone so they can buy the next drop ¬.¬)
PSU has nothing of this sort, due to not having one world with times spawns.

The second big one was the Auction House. It allowed people to see the prices everyone was selling for, and centalised the enconermy there. It was quite possable to artificaly raise prices by selling items over several accounts at way abouve the norm, so people thought it was the standard.
In PSU, you have player shops, which means this kind of deciet can't happon.

The 3rd big one, was that ALL worthwhile equipemnt came from drops and crafting, all the shop based equipment sucked.
In PSU, a lot of people will be able to get buy with whats in the shop for the lower levels, and thus won't be willing to pay for huge sums of meseta, when they can get most early equip for a set price which will not inflate. Meaning that RMT will only come into play when higher level rare weapons come into play.

Overall I DO belive PSU will be affected by RMT, and there will be inflation as a result on some of the higher power rares. However, with out those 3 major factors, (especialy the first one) it will not affect PSU to a hugely sugnificant level.

XredX

Oct 22, 2006, 02:34 PM

lol reminds me of DC pso someone selling weps on EBay. at the earlygame stage.

Tystys

Oct 22, 2006, 02:35 PM

On 2006-10-22 12:34, XredX wrote:
lol reminds me of DC pso someone selling weps on EBay. at the earlygame stage.

Are you serious? Jesus, some people ARE desperate, O_O

LordHakutsuru

Oct 22, 2006, 02:36 PM

Maple Story Gold Farmer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=W8u91m5IN_s)

Anything is possible~ lol.

Do you think companys like IGE will ruin this game?
No.

[ This Message was edited by: LordHakutsuru on 2006-10-22 12:39 ]

pkazama

Oct 22, 2006, 02:48 PM

i also think people wont make much off this game either if they tried. Whenever I played PSO I dont remember ever having to buy an item off of someone. People on PSO had different classes(like Redria and Skyly)that would find certain items and people usually traded items off to eachother that they couldn't obtain with their own class. Also there are many generous people that played on PSO who were willing to just hand over a nice equipment for one to have since they no longer needed it. When that happens usually ther person is overwhelmed that they hand something in return as meseta or anything else. I find PSO/PSU to be more of a nicer fit game. Of course there will be a few people that arent helpful but it happens everywherein games.

Just hope no more BSOD's or healing PK's, etc. happening in PSU

Croix

Oct 22, 2006, 02:54 PM

The inflation on FFXI might be bad, but at least on there when you get an item, it feels like you achieved something. On PSO (back in the good 'ol days hah) I had a friend who played for a week and already had a BKB. Not to say gil/meseta buying isn't destructive/retarded, but duping was just as damaging. At least that's done away with.

XredX

Oct 22, 2006, 07:31 PM

man my internet died for a while -.-. but ya they sold weps there dont know if they sold they probably did.
i think a wep was like 5 or 13 dollars if i can remember right

Vhex

Oct 22, 2006, 07:49 PM

On 2006-10-20 13:31, Banert wrote:
...

But just in case ill pray to Rico that they don't http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Banert on 2006-10-20 13:33 ]

Shes dead.

Arcanum

Oct 22, 2006, 07:51 PM

On 2006-10-22 12:54, Croix wrote:
The inflation on FFXI might be bad, but at least on there when you get an item, it feels like you achieved something. On PSO (back in the good 'ol days hah) I had a friend who played for a week and already had a BKB. Not to say gil/meseta buying isn't destructive/retarded, but duping was just as damaging. At least that's done away with.

Hmm... I could get leaping boots each 2 hours back in the old days... I wouldn't call that achievment... Just don't be lazy and you can get everything in FFXI... at a boring, stupid and super retarded rate tough.

Aphael

Oct 22, 2006, 08:10 PM

On 2006-10-22 17:51, Arcanum wrote:

On 2006-10-22 12:54, Croix wrote:
The inflation on FFXI might be bad, but at least on there when you get an item, it feels like you achieved something. On PSO (back in the good 'ol days hah) I had a friend who played for a week and already had a BKB. Not to say gil/meseta buying isn't destructive/retarded, but duping was just as damaging. At least that's done away with.

Hmm... I could get leaping boots each 2 hours back in the old days... I wouldn't call that achievment... Just don't be lazy and you can get everything in FFXI... at a boring, stupid and super retarded rate tough.

That brings to light another important thing, which I think has been kind of hinted at a few times already. One of the causes of XI's RMT epidemic is that it's so hard to actually get things. The general standards for equipment was always sky high because everyone wanted max EXP/Hr, and since the Good Stuff tended to be either incredibly hard to craft or camp, people would be much more inclined to just cave and throw a few real life dollars at it. WoW doesn't have quite the same problem, since most of the really bad gear is bind on pickup anyway.

I don't think PSU will have this problem because the nature of the game, I imagine, makes attaining that elusive rare much less painful.

Arcanum

Oct 22, 2006, 08:25 PM

I agree,

Furthermore, you won't have to actually be stressed while camping for items. In FFXI, you had to fight to get the item you wanted. Thus, in PSU, it will be completely random and that is the, I think, best way to enjoy an online game. And I don't think people will have the same ideologie as in FFXI for the equipement overall. Afterall, they won't have the check command, which was one of the worst thing to ever be in the game.

ethanhawkeye

Oct 22, 2006, 08:27 PM

i hope IGE doesn't ruin it, but there's a bunch of other sites. itemgarden, MOGS and blah. there's too many so who knows.

Numnuttz

Oct 22, 2006, 08:28 PM

aww the joy of not having to worry about camping for rare monsters. man i hated that in FF. there was always a few people or 5 camping the same NM.

Hajile

Oct 22, 2006, 08:31 PM

On 2006-10-22 18:25, Arcanum wrote:
I agree,

Furthermore, you won't have to actually be stressed while ...

..Afterall, they won't have the check command, which was one of the worst thing to ever be in the game.

Actually PSU has a check command for use in the city(lobbyy) ;d

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2442

Musashy

Oct 22, 2006, 08:32 PM

Some people are lazy. Gets on my nerves when i spent days doing runs for items then someone buys a dupe off ebay.

Shadow82

Oct 22, 2006, 08:33 PM

I highly doubt any companies like that will have anything to do with PSU, since the NMs are completely random as is the drop, they dont got much to go for. Not to mention I highly doubt anyone would waste their cash on meseta seeing as how it's so easy to get. And to the post saying you can get anything on FFXI if you arent lazy...heh, I suppose you were excluding NMs like Argus. 3 cheers for 24-36 hour spawn rate, competition, AND a low drop rate. Now that takes more then not being lazy >.>.

[ This Message was edited by: Shadow82 on 2006-10-22 18:37 ]

Arcanum

Oct 22, 2006, 08:37 PM

Oh my god... Well at least it's in the lobby. I will be able to get into missions without people judging me... I hope.

watashiwa

Oct 22, 2006, 08:39 PM

Time to start up my own meseta selling service.

Kers

Oct 22, 2006, 08:45 PM

*male nanoblasts the cheaters* You like that? Yeah?!

Bleemo

Oct 22, 2006, 09:15 PM

On 2006-10-22 12:32, Jasam wrote:
FF11 is possably the greatest example of how RMT can cause problems.

PSU however doesn't suffer from the three greatest issues.

The biggest being NMs, by camping them, and the rare drops they got, RMT had a manopaly on the item and could inflate prices to what ever they pleased. (Causing inflation, AND making then gil which they would sell to someone so they can buy the next drop ¬.¬)
PSU has nothing of this sort, due to not having one world with times spawns.

The second big one was the Auction House. It allowed people to see the prices everyone was selling for, and centalised the enconermy there. It was quite possable to artificaly raise prices by selling items over several accounts at way abouve the norm, so people thought it was the standard.
In PSU, you have player shops, which means this kind of deciet can't happon.

The 3rd big one, was that ALL worthwhile equipemnt came from drops and crafting, all the shop based equipment sucked.
In PSU, a lot of people will be able to get buy with whats in the shop for the lower levels, and thus won't be willing to pay for huge sums of meseta, when they can get most early equip for a set price which will not inflate. Meaning that RMT will only come into play when higher level rare weapons come into play.

Overall I DO belive PSU will be affected by RMT, and there will be inflation as a result on some of the higher power rares. However, with out those 3 major factors, (especialy the first one) it will not affect PSU to a hugely sugnificant level.

Again, I feel the need to state: RMT's do not control the auction house. They don't even try. The cause of price inflation on items is due to player greed, not farmers. I posted earlier on page 3 explaining why this was so.

The only way PSU could be effected by price inflation is that if the community who purchases meseta becomes large enough that the pool of currency floating around the servers becomes drastically larger; player shops will increase prices on their items because the standard amount of currency players have has risen.

It's possible PSU will be effected but highly doubtful. PSU isn't the type of game that you have to rely on trading to obtain items that you want, even rare items. Unlike a game like WoW or FFXI, you can obtain any item on your own by yourself, therefore trading isn't required.

EC_Subbie

Oct 22, 2006, 09:16 PM

RMT could exist if it's possible to make bots in PSU (even without, but they would have to put more effort into actually controlling the characters more). In FFXI, many RMTs were bot controlled, with multiple bots fishing/mining/hunting etc 24/7. Since there's no NM camping, but meseta is still important..It is possible that if bots are created then RMT could set the bot to hit certain maps over and over and over again 24/7 for nothing but meseta farming. It would be easy to solo through with a high level character that can kill all mobs in a few hits and clear the map every time with S rank.

Take that and multiply it, with maybe dozens of bots all farming at once, per farm, same maps, same reward over and over. They could then sell the raw meseta, then upon purchase instruct the purchaser to meet the RMT at a certain place on a certain universe, they invite to party and they trade them the meseta.

Hypothetically say an RMT sets up ten systems all running seperate PSU accounts. Thats' $100 bill per month, not including initial cost of the 360s/PC/ps2. Each account is hitting a map that's worth around 10,000 meseta per run (random estimate, could be worth half that much even). 10,000 x 10 = 100,000 meseta per run. Say it takes them ten minutes per run and they run it 24/7... 600,000 per hour, 14,400,000 per day, 100,800,000 per week.

With such a massive supply of easy meseta coming in they could then sell them in large quantities for very cheap. Since there is no way to monopolize mob spawns that I know of, or a central auction based economy it probably wouldn't effect inflation too much. Players might be willing to spend more due to easy money supply, and overall prices in shops would go up, but I still don't see it being as bad as FFXI. If PSU can't use bots though, then none of this means anything really..unless you have workers actively controlling non-bot characters in shifts, fighting them like any other player.

Also I'd like to add that while there isn't a way to monopolize a spawn or map, since an infinite number of the same map can be run over and over, this could be countered by selling large quantaties at an irresistable price. They might not control monsters like they did in ffxi, preventing other players access, but they sure as hell could sell time instead, giving you a few mil or so for a few bucks.

[ This Message was edited by: EC_Subbie on 2006-10-22 19:33 ]

[ This Message was edited by: EC_Subbie on 2006-10-22 19:36 ]