Um... uh oh.

[Valatar]

A few thoughts simultaneously occurred to me, assembling into a tapestry of unpleasant conclusion.

1. Weapons still have a stat requirement to equip.
2. We don't get mags to buff stats.
3. Armor slots are now specialized, no more using four GOD/Minds to be able to equip that spiffy wand.

It looks like the good old days of using mags and units to skyrocket a stat high enough to equip a weapon are gone forever.

This in turn leads to a fear in my heart of a whooooole lot of really screwed players. Newman Hunters, Beast Rangers, and Cast Forces, all unable to equip the S-rank weapons that their classes allow them to use because their weak stat can't be raised high enough to ever use them.

Has anyone encountered issues with their chosen race/profession combo being unable to use the higher-rank weapons of that class?

[Weak]

I can tell you what else it gets rid of.

Level 1 characters dealing 300+ damage.

[Rizen]

I can assure you, removing the mag buff and changing the armor slots around is for the best. Too many people were abusing the fact they could make a godly low level character with topnotch equipment.

The requirements for weapons isnt as bad as you think it is. You just now have to level yourself up to the appropriate level instead of relying on mag and armor slots.

[Parn]

Getting rid of MAGs was the best thing that ever happened to online Phantasy Star. Character twinking is LAME.

Edit: It's also worth noting that units will not affect your ability to use better gear. The bonus applies after the fact, not before. Sonic Team went out of their way to try to remove character twinking.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-10-21 13:13 ]</font>

[Valatar]

Character twinking is lame, but being able to heavily invest in a single stat is what allowed for HUnewearls to be competitive, otherwise they couldn't have equipped the higher-end melee weapons until they were a good twenty or thirty levels higher than a human hunter, or in a few cases never at all.

[Mikesnav]

I loved mags in PSO http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

They looked awesome.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikesnav on 2006-10-21 13:18 ]</font>

[Rizen]

But the thing is HUnewearls had a good advantage on magic than HUmars, have to take everything into account if you want to start comparing races.

All this means is you have to use what you have and excel at it.

[Mag_Launcher]

I'm sure this is ST's revenge for having so many people using top-tier slots and mags and using rares right off the bat with a new character.

This way, you won't have to worry about playing with characters around your level, new or not. Those who have transferred equipment won't have much of an advantage this time around. They might have access to a higher version of a weapon because they had bought it from somewhere else, but they won't be equipping it any sooner.

[Kimil]

It looks like the good old days of using mags and units to skyrocket a stat high enough to equip a weapon are gone forever.

Oh my God, lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2006-10-21 13:21 ]</font>

[Yoiyami]

Well, this will help keep balance in the game. Even though I was one of those level 1 players dealing 300+ damage. >.>;

But oh well. Nothing wrong with working hard to get what you want. Unless you're lazy...

[Valatar]

'Newmen have better magic' no longer applies if they're in a class without techniques. Now they're simply plainly inferior, unable to do as much damage and unable to even equip the same level weapons, making them fall even further behind as a Fortegunner, Fortefighter, or Figunner. Ditto for beasts in non-melee classes and casts in non-gun classes.

[Numnuttz]

yea Sega made the game more of a challenge and im loving it. i actually have to think smart on how play this game than go crazy and just spam an attack like i used to

[Weak]

Trust me, It's going to be fine.

[physic]

yes its true, you cant do much about your stats, if you are a beast fo, dont expect to use good guns bows anytime soon, if your cast, dont expect to have the best wands, where it makes up though is, if your a cast fo, you will be able to equip better arrows and guns way before anyone else, (30 bullets on fortefo) if your a beast your base atp will be stronger, better sabers, and higher atp on what you can equip. It makes it so race definately matters more, but ultimately you will have to adapt your playing style to what is available to you.

[Quark713]

On 2006-10-21 13:31, physic wrote:
yes its true, you cant do much about your stats, if you are a beast fo, dont expect to use good guns bows anytime soon, if your cast, dont expect to have the best wands, where it makes up though is, if your a cast fo, you will be able to equip better arrows and guns way before anyone else, (30 bullets on fortefo) if your a beast your base atp will be stronger, better sabers, and higher atp on what you can equip. It makes it so race definately matters more, but ultimately you will have to adapt your playing style to what is available to you.



*Blink*
Confusing to look at.
*Walks off*

[Rizen]

You have to just calm down and look at the big picture. Newmans also have pretty good ATA which is secondly needed after ATP for Hunter which also makes them good candidates for Fortegunner. Just because you cant do what other races can, doesnt mean its going to be horrible.

Also, dont rely on items only to make your character great. The most important factor is you and your skills.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-21 13:35 ]</font>

[voxie]

On 2006-10-21 13:02, Weak wrote:
I can tell you what else it gets rid of.

Level 1 characters dealing 300+ damage.



Word.

It's more of a challenge now. Earned levels and strength are now as valuable as they should be. No easy levelling by borrowing your mate's mag... Yeah, I prefer it this way http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

If you want it, work for it! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Valatar]

Extra mode stat research came up with, in order to equal a level 60 HUmar's ATP, a newman had to be level 90. Having two races in the same class be so wildly different in the key stat for the class is a significant problem, in my opinion. Offline and online have some hefty differences, and there are no guarantees that things will work out the same, but I don't relish the thought of lagging over twenty levels behind another person in the same class because it turned out I picked the 'wrong' race.

Player skill may account for a fair deal, but it won't help you hit for a smidgen more damage. Only cold, hard ATP numbers and equipment will get those results. Or would you take someone seriously if you saw someone of your exact level running around with the same weapon you had twenty levels ago, and doing that same amount of damage per swing?

[Genobee]

Yay no twinking

[Chronosv2]

From what I've heard, extra mode is strongly exxagerated. As such, we won't know much of anything until we get there.

I, for one, am glad to see that we can't item-boost our characters. It was fun in PSO, but once you had gone through the 4 areas enough times you didn't want to level a new character.

And I don't think a Newman Hunter will be as crippled as it sounds here. Given the options for a Newman, I'd rather be accurate and weaker than powerful and dealing 0-0-0 because I can't hit the broad side of a barn.

[SpishackCola]

So glad there's no twinking in PSU.

[Genobee]

I rmeber the days of of using a Ice Queen at lvl one

[Phalynx]

From what I understand, the Newman are more evasive and accurate, so they are just a different type of hunter, more along the lines of a thief. So i see more Newman Hunters going figunner which seems like a great combination of weapons and stats.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-10-21 17:10 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-10-21 13:24, Valatar wrote:
'Newmen have better magic' no longer applies if they're in a class without techniques. Now they're simply plainly inferior, unable to do as much damage and unable to even equip the same level weapons, making them fall even further behind as a Fortegunner, Fortefighter, or Figunner. Ditto for beasts in non-melee classes and casts in non-gun classes.



My Cast does/did damn fine as a Hunter.

You're over-reacting. I sincerely doubt Sega could get drunk enough to deny certain races weapons in their chosen job types.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Umm this aint pso? The stat requirements will not require you to sky rocket your stats somehow, a newman hunter may have to wait a couple levels before a beast hunter to equip a weapon, its the price you pay for trying to be out of the norm

[Kyuu]

You're forgetting the fact that the whole hunter/ranger/force thing is irrelevant. There are Expert Types. You want a meleeing female Newman who can use her techs? Wartecher. Will you be as good a melee'er as a Beast Fortefighter? No. But you'll make up for that with strong tech skills.

I too was worried about Humans and Newmans getting shafted because of TAP having no relevance to anyone besides Forces, but now that the details surrounding the Expert Types have come out, it's pretty much a non-issue. And if you really want to, you can be a Newman Fortefighter. Levels in your job also up your base stat (by a percentage it seems, judging by the latest info I saw posted), so I'd imagine even Newmans could eventually equip almost all the S-rank weapons available to them.

Also, Newmans and Humans also have the Claire (sp?) weapons available to them, which provide an interesting dynamic. If you didn't know, Claire weapons have lower stats than other weapons of the same rank, but are able to hit more enemies at a time than normal. (Or something like that, someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

It's either this way, or all the races have the same stats, therefore making different races pointless except for aesthetic reasons.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-10-21 20:03 ]</font>

[Flamingo99]

On 2006-10-21 13:33, Quark713 wrote:


On 2006-10-21 13:31, physic wrote:
yes its true, you cant do much about your stats, if you are a beast fo, dont expect to use good guns bows anytime soon, if your cast, dont expect to have the best wands, where it makes up though is, if your a cast fo, you will be able to equip better arrows and guns way before anyone else, (30 bullets on fortefo) if your a beast your base atp will be stronger, better sabers, and higher atp on what you can equip. It makes it so race definately matters more, but ultimately you will have to adapt your playing style to what is available to you.



*Blink*
Confusing to look at.
*Walks off*



Yeah... that was confusing to read. Physic, I think you mixed up FOs and RAs up in your statement a couple of times...

[Losodo1976]

On 2006-10-21 13:02, Weak wrote:
I can tell you what else it gets rid of.

Level 1 characters dealing 300+ damage.



LOL, for sure! That was annoying.

[physic]

HAha imaybe i was confusing, but i was talking about Fos, the truth is fo is a class that uses a lot of ra stuff, if you use a wand for example you always have to use a gun, a bow is also a fo weapon, although cast has low tap, he will always be able to equip the better guns before the other classes. For a beat fo, they will have more ata to back them up, more hp and defense, so they can use close ranged spells, or risk getting hit instead of running far when the enemy comes (in fo now, position is very important, there is no lock on for spells) basically the point is if you have different race, you will probably have to play the same job very differently to be effiecient, you cant boost your stats that much.

One thing to keep in mind though is online job levels give huge bonuses, offline, negligeable bonuses, so while offline a beastfo wont reach a castfos ata requirement fo the weakest bow till like level 40 or something, online the job level may be a big factor (job level stats arent based on race, but on job) so it shouldnt be exactly as drastic as it is offline ( the effect that race has on what you can do)

[Zato-2TWO]

On 2006-10-21 13:15, Valatar wrote:
Character twinking is lame, but being able to heavily invest in a single stat is what allowed for HUnewearls to be competitive, otherwise they couldn't have equipped the higher-end melee weapons until they were a good twenty or thirty levels higher than a human hunter, or in a few cases never at all.



As a super-power MAG-using Huney, I can attest to this.

There are still advantages for each of the 'Oh my god this race/class combo is pitiful' tiers despite them being unable to use good weapons at their level because of gimped stats. From what I believe, the Newman Hunter should have a bit more ATA than the Human Hunter, the Cast Force has impressive Defense as far as Forces go, and the Beast Ranger's high ATA probably means more damage per shot, for those that hit. I don't think a character's usefulness is so much dependant on stats and gear, but more on playstyle and tactics. If you play right, your 'gimped' character could be just as efficient as any other class.

[Merumeru]

On 2006-10-21 13:02, Weak wrote:
I can tell you what else it gets rid of.

Level 1 characters dealing 300+ damage.



THREAD WIN GET XD

But yeah, that always bothered me about going online, when Id try to party with lv1s who were ridiculously powerful x.x

[Rekitheforce]

On 2006-10-21 13:00, Valatar wrote:
A few thoughts simultaneously occurred to me, assembling into a tapestry of unpleasant conclusion.

1. Weapons still have a stat requirement to equip.
2. We don't get mags to buff stats.
3. Armor slots are now specialized, no more using four GOD/Minds to be able to equip that spiffy wand.

It looks like the good old days of using mags and units to skyrocket a stat high enough to equip a weapon are gone forever.



Thus making you want to play it more, level up more, and just overall have some fun. I think they might have taken out mags and changed the armor slots for a good reason.