How bad are CASTs at casting?

[Emgro]

We can all look at psupedia and see what the numbers are, but I really don't know what they mean. If I make a FOcast, just how weak is that character's Technics going to be? Anyone in Beta play around with making weak characters to test this sort of thing?

HUnewms and FOcasts and RAbeasts are combinations that are less than stellar, but how bad are they actually? Is a CAST Guntecher so weak on technics there's no point in even bothering?

[Sizzors]

Numbers tell you nothing, they also don't help you decide. As good advice, when the game comes out, make a 'FOcast' and see if it is any good, if not, make a new character.

[JaiBlue]

I wouldn't say casts are bad a casting, however their pa limits and the points used to cast techinuqes are somewhat limited.

[Mewn]

On 2006-10-23 12:49, JaiBlue wrote:
I wouldn't say casts are bad a casting, however their pa limits and the points used to cast techinuqes are somewhat limited.


PA limits depend on your class, not your race.

If by 'the points used to cast techniques' you mean PP, that depends on your weapon, and the cost of casting a technic depends on the technic itself obviously, as well as its level.

I don't really know if Casts are bad at casting, but they do have the lowest TP of all four races, which is what really counts.

[Kent]

On 2006-10-23 12:49, JaiBlue wrote:
I wouldn't say casts are bad a casting, however their pa limits and the points used to cast techinuqes are somewhat limited.


...What?

PA limits are the same for all races (assuming they're the same class), the the points used to cast techniques, PP, are bound to the weapon being used. Neither of these are race-dependant.

Anyway, regarding numbers on PSUPedia, TP (referred to by some as "TAP") is the main modifier for damage output of a technique. For example, Foie level 1's damage is approximately 206% TP, meaning, the base damage formula for the technique is TP*2.06 (enemy resistance to the element is factored after this). I don't remember if that's the exact percentage for level 1 Foie, and PSUPedia isn't loading for me at the moment, but that should give you an idea of how TP affects techniques. MST is only used in the calculation for defending against elemental attacks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kent on 2006-10-23 13:13 ]</font>

[JaiBlue]

umm guess I was wrong @_@

[FenixStryk]

CASTs aren't BAD, but they're definetly not the best. Try to avoid the magic, but if your class is a hybrid, like Guntecher, just accept it.

[Garnet_Moon]

Foie cast by each of the starting classes...

Newman: 140ish
Human: 100ish
Beast: 80ish
CAST: 60ish

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2430

Yeah, i'm gonna love my FOnewearl.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Casts suck so much balls at force, thats why they have not only godly atp but GODLY ata AND high hp, they are meant to be a hunter/ranger type of char and nothing else, playing anything else is gimping yourself really hard ive heard newmans can hit for 600 whill at the same lvl a cast will do 350-400

Cast force = noob

Cast figunner = god among men



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-23 13:24 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

...well, at least Resta can't be resisted, right?

...right? >_>

[Kent]

Resta's healing seems to also be based on TP, though not directly stated in the technique's description.

[Sizzors]

On 2006-10-23 13:25, Garnet_Moon wrote:
...well, at least Resta can't be resisted, right?

...right? >_>



Yes. I wish so badly I could be a Fortegunner with Resta.

[Garnet_Moon]

If you want to go HUnewm, FOcast or RAbeast, then do it. Just try not to end up as another statistic on the "Idiots who want to be different" list. If you do it go all out and make a name for yourself, or don't do it at all.



The only classes that get to use Techniques...

Fortecher: Up to lv30
Force: Up to lv20
Wartecher: Up to lv20
Guntecher: Up to lv10

No one else can use techniques.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-10-23 13:40 ]</font>

[Candor]

On 2006-10-23 13:23, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Casts suck so much balls at force, thats why they have not only godly atp but GODLY ata AND high hp, they are meant to be a hunter/ranger type of char and nothing else, playing anything else is gimping yourself really hard ive heard newmans can hit for 600 whill at the same lvl a cast will do 350-400

Cast force = noob

Cast figunner = god among men

just because someone picked the "best" class for their race doesn't mean they aren't a noob. there's something called skill that you won't find in those precious numbers

play whatever race/class makes you happy, and if you don't like it than you can switch



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Candor on 2006-10-23 13:40 ]</font>

[Riddler]

On 2006-10-23 13:23, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Casts suck so much balls at force, thats why they have not only godly atp but GODLY ata AND high hp, they are meant to be a hunter/ranger type of char and nothing else, playing anything else is gimping yourself really hard ive heard newmans can hit for 600 whill at the same lvl a cast will do 350-400

Cast force = noob

Cast figunner = god among men



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-23 13:24 ]</font>


When did Cast get Godly ATP & HP? I thought that crown belonged to Beast?

[Ryoga4523]

So how bad will a newman ranger be if the cast forces suck that bad?

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-10-23 13:43, Ryoga4523 wrote:
So how bad will a newman ranger be if the cast forces suck that bad?


Their accuracy is fine, they just lack in the ATP area.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

On 2006-10-23 13:42, Riddler wrote:


On 2006-10-23 13:23, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Casts suck so much balls at force, thats why they have not only godly atp but GODLY ata AND high hp, they are meant to be a hunter/ranger type of char and nothing else, playing anything else is gimping yourself really hard ive heard newmans can hit for 600 whill at the same lvl a cast will do 350-400

Cast force = noob

Cast figunner = god among men



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-23 13:24 ]</font>


When did Cast get Godly ATP & HP? I thought that crown belonged to Beast?



Second highest HP and second highest ATP, however beasts get the most ATP and nanoblasting making them kings of burst damage but casts seem better at consistant damage

[Sexy_Raine]

What would you rather be? A bad-ass cast holding a puny wand, or a cast wielding a big ass sword? I think the answer is obvious.

[Randomness]

I think beasts have more HP and ATP, but less ATA...

Newman hunter? Sure, if its for wartecher.

[Kent]

On 2006-10-23 13:39, Candor wrote:


On 2006-10-23 13:23, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Casts suck so much balls at force, thats why they have not only godly atp but GODLY ata AND high hp, they are meant to be a hunter/ranger type of char and nothing else, playing anything else is gimping yourself really hard ive heard newmans can hit for 600 whill at the same lvl a cast will do 350-400

Cast force = noob

Cast figunner = god among men

just because someone picked the "best" class for their race doesn't mean they aren't a noob. there's something called skill that you won't find in those precious numbers

play whatever race/class makes you happy, and if you don't like it than you can switch


Race/class choice doesn't make someone a newb.

However, skill makes the difference between an awesome player, and a newb.

Unfortunately, though, a greatly skilled player, with an "inferior" race for a particular class, will always fall short of an equally-equipped and skilled player of the same class, of a "superior" race, if played the same way.

For example, if you wanted to be a FOcast, sure, you'd have pretty weak technique power, but you'd be able to hit with a Longbow more accurately than anyone else could, and in the end, more suited to Guntecher than you would be to Fortecher - though, you can still probably work pretty well with Fans/Longbows as a Fortecher. Not that you should ignore techniques, by any means... Just be a Fortegunner if you don't want them at all.

[FAHR-3NH317]

stuped is as stuped does :>>

[Diablohead]

For what I know, its something like value 6 for cast and 21 for a newman, so somewhat around 1/3 as weak?



On 2006-10-23 13:43, Ryoga4523 wrote:
So how bad will a newman ranger be if the cast forces suck that bad?


Well from my beta experiance I was a human ranger, but Ive decided to go newman ranger but only had a day to test it, going by stats the accuracy is better but we would lack the hp and power benefits from being human instead.

On the other end Im going to be mixing range with force anyway.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Diablohead on 2006-10-23 14:02 ]</font>

[rayis]

The only real answer to the question is to experiment when the game comes out. i think the greatest thing about the game is that we can switch classes, so if something doesnt work out then switch.

[BrandonBa2]

I really don't think a couple points of ata or something else is going to effect how well YOU play.

[PaladinRPG]

I personally think I'd try a guntecher CAST. Relying on techniques for buffing/healing and supplemental elemental damage is all they would need to make a very effective combatant.

[roygbiv]

Actually if it turns out that Resta + the buffing techs are simply level based instead of TAP based, (as is most likely the case) A support FOcast would not be that awful... and a Guntecher or whatever wouldn't be an awful thing to be for a cast.

[Riddler]

On 2006-10-23 14:18, PaladinRPG wrote:
I personally think I'd try a guntecher CAST. Relying on techniques for buffing/healing and supplemental elemental damage is all they would need to make a very effective combatant.



That should be effective. Casts seem to be "best" built for:

1.Fortegunner
2.Figunner
3.Guntecher

[Yoruichi]

I'd also like to add, since I_own_you apparently has the game already and knows whats gonna happen, oh wait he doesn't. If you even looked at the videos all those newman forces get stuck on the harder missions just casting resta and rarely get time to nuke due to the incomming damage from S rank(?) monsters. Also if you watch that vid what happens every time a monsters nuke, ranged attack or even melee attack hits her? Thats right dead no chance to heal no chance to nuke. If you wanna make a FOcast you'd have better use with a bow and with low tap lower nuke damage, but atleast you can take a hit. Unless your great at evading attacks and have some way to put yourself at constant no risk situations then yes a newman is better, but for the high ranking missions and challenges a more of a "cleric"(healing in plate so to speak) is more Ideal or it becomes more costly.

[Vhex]

Why make a FOcast/easl when you can make a much better Fonewm/earl? FOcasts are terribly disadvantaged as forces because their EVP, Endurence, and TAP is bloody horrible. Numbers are important, they are used to calculate damage. If you want to have hell leveling, sure go ahead and make one.

[PaladinRPG]

On 2006-10-23 14:22, roygbiv wrote:
Actually if it turns out that Resta + the buffing techs are simply level based instead of TAP based, (as is most likely the case) A support FOcast would not be that awful... and a Guntecher or whatever wouldn't be an awful thing to be for a cast.

Also, Guntechers can get S-rank Mechguns. With the superior ATA from their racial stats, they can make these poor accuracy weapons very effective, too. I did something like this in the older PSO with a ATA maxed RAcast... could literally mow down enemies! With strafing options, it is a very tempting combo.

[Vhex]

On 2006-10-23 14:31, PaladinRPG wrote:


On 2006-10-23 14:22, roygbiv wrote:
Actually if it turns out that Resta + the buffing techs are simply level based instead of TAP based, (as is most likely the case) A support FOcast would not be that awful... and a Guntecher or whatever wouldn't be an awful thing to be for a cast.

...with a ATA maxed RAcast...



Hmm. I don't think it's as easy as equipting 4 god/arms on PSU.

[Wallin]

I played a Force Cast in beta, I did fine. I got to up to level 17, no one ever said I was a bad Force - most groups were just thrilled to have anyone that actually healed without having to ask or die first.

If you're dead set on picking a Force to play, then play Newman obviously. But since you're asking I'm guessing you're open to options, so just remember you can always pick another class later with your Cast, and can even expert class into a Wartecher or something.

If you're playing a Cast because they look cool, then it doesn't really matter if they suck or not. Just have fun http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Resta is supposed to be based on level, so your only problem is damage, and if people give you crap about it, leave and let them blow a thousand meseta on monomates while they wait for another member to make up the damage and hope that new member is also a "decent Force", pfft.

[Knownoes]

Your average FOcast?

http://www.emerchandise.com/images/p/FTR/pdCOFTR0004.jpg

[Yarny]

Resta is effected by more than merely the tech level. Example: In the 360 beta, I had a rod and wand both with resta on them. The rod was the best store bought; the wand was the basic starting wand (meaning less powerful), as I didn't feel like buying a new wand (as it was just my back up "healing" wand.)
The resta on the rod could easily heal my entire life bar worth of hp, whereas the wand's resta only recovered 60-70% of my hp bar. However, I'm not sure if this is because wand added less to my TP than the rod, or if the wand added less to the strength of the techs themselves. In other words, the question is whether wands/rods and to your TP or just boost techs.
Anyways, the point is that the level alone isn't the sole factor in resta's healing.

[Dahilia]

rofl@Bender

Hm. No one's mentioned Protranser in this (Even though they get some force points). I guess their spell level with CASTs isnt worth mentioning.

[Vhex]

Was your rod Holy property and grinded higher? That often increases the power of resta.

[Yarny]

Nope, the wand was the one that was holy. And I never could get my weapons grinded.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

I wouldnt necessarly make a cast force though if i wanted a good support tech id make a beast, heres why http://zephyr.psupedia.org/psuvid19.avi, as you can see in this video everytime a newman FO casts a heal its always a full hp heal, its just overkill really, i could play a beast and maybe itd be a 80% heal if say TAP effected resta...and the beast wouldnt be getin 1 shoted 4 times like that nut on this video

Im just saying a pure FO who wants to do damage and heal not specialize in support should make a newman or human

[Scirrocco]

Cast has better ATA though, while Beast have worst. If you want to do ranged damage with handgun+wand, bows etc, then you'll be missing alot with an already low ata class having beast ATA.

[grimstone]

focast fo life

[Itsuki]

So how bad will a newman ranger be if the cast forces suck that bad?
Newman are actually probably the 2nd best ranger. Accuracy is fo all intensive purposes equal to casts, and they're actually more defensive (if that makes any sense). Rangers get hit the least of all classes and aren't required to be the damage dealers, so the ATP and HP issues aren't that bad except in places where you can be 1-hit killed.

As for cast guntechers, its probably not the best idea. At level 50, most people will have in the range of 1000 hp, as a newman guntecher, I resta for oh say... 350. A cast guntcher will resta for say... 200-250? Its not pretty. As for tech damage. As a newman guntecher, my foie deals oh... 200-ish. My dualies deal 90-100 x 2, rifles deal in the 180-200 range, but both rifles and dualies shoot 2-3x as fast as I can cast techs. Basically what I'm saying is, even as a newman guntecher, you can't rely on techs for anything. As a cast guntecher, it'd only be worse. Thats not to say they aren't useful though. In parties with only 1 force, I can substitute as back up healer by going offhand weapons + resta wands. At the same time, there are certain areas where I actually deal significantly more with techs, such as hakura and the last room of agata relics. In the last room of agata relics S, my foie deal about 250 to the dogs, while my dualies deal about 10x2.


Cast has better ATA though, while Beast have worst. If you want to do ranged damage with handgun+wand, bows etc, then you'll be missing alot with an already low ata class having beast ATA.
When going to fortecher, your ata, atp, and hp take an even bigger hit. Its probably not worth it, though the fortecher buffs will make beast TAP reasonable, its still an odd choice. Also, keep in mind, fortechers use only 80% PP on techs, so they can spam support skills.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-23 18:45 ]</font>