PDA

View Full Version : Possible PC CD-Key situation = Possible Server Load Disaster



zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 12:03 AM
As I'm sure you've all noticed, though many (including myself) would rather not comment within it, there is a post about the posibility (not yet proven it seems) that identical copies of the PC version will be able to play online simultaneiously, and no product proof is needed to start an online account (is this true btw?).

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=123012&forum=20&173

Let me first say, I'm walking into EB tomorow and walking out with either PS2 or PC version. This thread is not posted to discuss the morality issue. If you wish to comment on that part of the story, click the link above. I'm not even concerned about the increase of possible hacking which seems to be the main concern expressed in the thread above.


I am TERRIFIED about what this means to server health for the PS2/PC servers!! This will likely lead to a massive increase in the number of subscribers. Needing a valid CD key to install the JP version allowed them to control the numbers of players overall. You can't play if you didn't buy the game. Yet, they still had to start a 2nd server to handle the load of online subscribers.

Now here is the American release. It is being said (I hope ALL of this is proven incorrect before the end of the night so I can sleep) that you can start an online account without even providing the the CD-Key, which I believe the JP version also required (true?).

So yes, Sega is obviously going to miss out on $$...

No, I can't see this being intentional on their part...

Sure, longevity of the servers will indeed be paid for by our $10/month fee...

BUT... this will multiply the number of subscribers a few times and I wonder is Sega is ready for this. Instead of using CD sales to control the number of people playing overall, as games such as WoW did (One account/Copy of game), they will need to resort to posting on the billing site "Sorry, we have no more availability of Liscences at this time, please try again at a later date" to control the number of players.

PLEASE, someone finally prove this all to be incorrect so I can go to sleep and get back to dreaming about getting my copy... starting the story mode... creating my account saturday and joining the gathering that Rizen (spelling?) and others are arranging.

Again... not a post about the morality issue... I Love Phantasy star, I love owning a tight game collection, and am walking out of EB with a copy tomorow... But I don't want to base the decision on the idea that someday down the road they may need to resort to dividing the PC and PS2 players to seperate servers to give PS2 players a more stable experience and allow them to focus on the PC player situation.

Sorry for long post... and for possibly repeating myself a few times. Sorry if someone beat me to the topic. Now please, someone, please tell me how WRONG I am so I can relax and go to bed. (2am for me, working in the morning).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zemog on 2006-10-25 22:31 ]</font>

FenixStryk
Oct 26, 2006, 12:06 AM
This is some risky business. If Sega doesn't get the lump sum from game purchases now, they might not be able to support the servers in the short term, which could lead to the failure of the PS2/PC versions. Pray that maybe the CD Key is encrypted.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-10-25 22:06 ]</font>

Paperluigi
Oct 26, 2006, 12:06 AM
As it looks now, it's definitely a possibility.

AlphaMinotaux
Oct 26, 2006, 12:09 AM
psu is much less popular here than in japan but who knows

Paperluigi
Oct 26, 2006, 12:11 AM
On 2006-10-25 22:09, AlphaMinotaux wrote:
psu is much less popular here than in japan but who knows



But still, you see how many people were complaining that "I don't want to pay monthly after I put down $50 just to get the game." Now they don't have to, and that is a lot of extra people, assuming there's no encryption in the CDs or something.

googles
Oct 26, 2006, 12:12 AM
From the looks of it, theres no cd key of any kind, what-so-ever.

BrandonBa2
Oct 26, 2006, 12:12 AM
PSUs server load will be 10x more then if it would have had a cd-key.

Killuminati
Oct 26, 2006, 12:13 AM
You may be right. I can understand the the servers being down for such a long time but I don't understand why the billing site is down right now and has been down for so many hours.

-Shimarisu-
Oct 26, 2006, 12:14 AM
You still have to pay for a fricking account to go online.

As in YOU HAVE TO PAY, there's not even a free trial.

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 12:14 AM
To my own dismay, I believe the other thread just confirmed that the whole "possible" situation is actual.

I guess it begins... I'm hoping for some intellegent responses to read all day at work tomorow on the matter so I can decide if I'll walk out of the store with PS2 version or the PC version...

EDIT: And in response to:

"As in YOU HAVE TO PAY, there's not even a free trial."

Thankfully yes... but as I mentioned, people will love to pay $10/month without needing to buy the game sadly... which will STILL lead to major increases of subscribers, which is the overall issue. Anyone think, by the way, this may be DIRECTLY involved with why the billing server is down at the moment? But maybe it's intermittent because other thread stated they just created a new account to try on a duplicate install which supposedly worked fine.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zemog on 2006-10-25 22:17 ]</font>

Paperluigi
Oct 26, 2006, 12:14 AM
Killuminati, that's because it was getting nuked by hundreds of people trying to access it all at once. That and the online servers were or are down, so they don't want anyone else signing up and then not being able to use their time, make sense?

BrandonBa2
Oct 26, 2006, 12:15 AM
I know people who are getting the game now since they found out they don't have to shell out $50 for it.

Dj_SkyEpic
Oct 26, 2006, 12:15 AM
PSU for NA is as fresh as smelly toes straight from hard work out in the fields.

Of course they would NOT instantly deny license since in longevity they will gain wealth from the monthly fee.

When I say it's fresh I meant that theres always room for errors. They have plent of time to research and fix those errors. They didnt make this game to harvest money from a small sum of people, if that's what you're thinking.

You have nothing to worry about!

Also... I would be able to test the "no cd-key" idea but my brother is too poor to get his own Guardian license. I can at least install it on his computer though. So it may be true about not needing to buy at all, except just get the license and an installation.

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 12:30 AM
On 2006-10-25 22:15, BrandonBa2 wrote:
I know people who are getting the game now since they found out they don't have to shell out $50 for it.



Yup, that's the disaster in action http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Maybe it'll be something like the Big Bang, only without the beginning of existence and all that fluff.

googles
Oct 26, 2006, 12:32 AM
Heres a post from an admin on the official psu forums.


Anyone suggesting methods of piracy will be promptly banned from these boards. Anyone with half a brain knows better than to discuss piracy openly on a Publisher's forum. I am suprised I have to make a post outlining this, as it should be more than obvious.

Yes, the PC game does not have a CD-Key, but that is not an open invitation to discuss ways to exploit it. If you don't understand this distinction, you won't last long on these forums.

Paperluigi
Oct 26, 2006, 12:33 AM
He... didn't even mention some sort of anti-piracy encryption. ¬_¬

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 12:42 AM
On 2006-10-25 22:33, Paperluigi wrote:
He... didn't even mention some sort of anti-piracy encryption. ¬_¬



Thanks bro. I feel I covered myself on the matter well enough. It really is a serious concern, and I realize I could have posted the topic without even mentioning the cause of the effect... Kinda late now to edit anyways. The thread would be giberish.

EDIT: Oh sorry googles, I realized that was from the PSU official site, not this one. You made me sweat for a bit there http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zemog on 2006-10-25 22:56 ]</font>

Killuminati
Oct 26, 2006, 12:43 AM
On 2006-10-25 22:32, googles wrote:
Heres a post from an admin on the official psu forums.


Anyone suggesting methods of piracy will be promptly banned from these boards. Anyone with half a brain knows better than to discuss piracy openly on a Publisher's forum. I am suprised I have to make a post outlining this, as it should be more than obvious.

Yes, the PC game does not have a CD-Key, but that is not an open invitation to discuss ways to exploit it. If you don't understand this distinction, you won't last long on these forums.



It just doesn't make any sense why wouldn't they include a cd key in the game? Was the game rushed to shelves?

Zakuro
Oct 26, 2006, 12:53 AM
It would be nice if someone from Sega made an official statement on why there is no cd-key, but that seems rather unlikely, especially after reading Clumsy's post.

I think the people it will draw is more of a conern than the number of people. In some ways a bigger community is certainly better, but often the type of people who would do something like that instead of buying the game would likely hurt the community more than help.

I know it is unlikely at this point, but I'm hoping Sega has something in mind to prevent people from taking advantage of the game having no cd-key. Hopefully the expansion at least will have one if they don't do anything about PSU.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zakuro on 2006-10-25 22:54 ]</font>

Sleet_v2
Oct 26, 2006, 01:00 AM
fuck.

plain and simple.

Jools
Oct 26, 2006, 01:06 AM
Good grief there's some daft posts in this thread. You have to pay to play the game. I can only assume that a lot of you posting are children.

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 01:16 AM
On 2006-10-25 23:06, Jools wrote:
Good grief there's some daft posts in this thread. You have to pay to play the game. I can only assume that a lot of you posting are children.



The concern is not it beeing a freebee or sega losing money... They will still make a fortune. The concern is the likely major increase of subscribers. As in possibly "too many" subscribers. I don't like the idea of waiting for them to raise more and more servers before things become stable.

Cross
Oct 26, 2006, 01:17 AM
Quite frankly, the chances that this is going to hurt the game are practically nonexistent compared to what it could do to help the game.


Hint: If your game has so many subscribers that your servers are packed to the brim and beyond, that's the opposite of a disaster.

JaiBlue
Oct 26, 2006, 01:18 AM
THEY TUK R JOBZZ >_<

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 01:21 AM
On 2006-10-25 23:17, Cross wrote:
Quite frankly, the chances that this is going to hurt the game are practically nonexistent compared to what it could do to help the game.


Hint: If your game has so many subscribers that your servers are packed to the brim and beyond, that's the opposite of a disaster.




Having lots of subscribers is good for the games longevity and for Sega's income, yes. However, I hope the day never comes where you gotta sit in queue for up to 30 min just to get into the game... ala WoW, which now has dozens upon dozens of servers. PSU is only starting with one. JP needed to add a whole second server ASAP because of their unexpected serge of players, and they knew how many copies they sent to stores.

Merumeru
Oct 26, 2006, 01:23 AM
XD as long as there is no server wipe, ill be fine

Nephias
Oct 26, 2006, 01:24 AM
Classic Sega launch;Zemog raises some valid concerns though.

peenk
Oct 26, 2006, 01:26 AM
Actually THERE IS A FREE TRIAL!
I told you f*uckers you should have rented first but you went ahead and bought it the first day ! ah OWNED!
Called me a PS3 fanboy? lmao, sega f*cked you in the ass once again but you are used to it yes?

For a free trial:
1. install PSU
2. create playsega.com account ( or BB account )
3. active your account with PSU
4. play for less than 7 days and cancel and you might get your money back unless i am mistaken
- go read sega's policy on cancelation, but from what I remember if you cancel within 7 days you get your money back and I cannot double check that because ....
THE SITE IS FREAKING DOWN!

AHAHAHAH NO CD KEYS!!!!!!1111111111hahahahaha
all importers = owned, all "OMG I PREORDERED FOUR MONTHS AGO" people = OWNED!!!!111111111
Phew am I glad I canceled my preordered after trying JP version weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
Guess RENTING wasnt such a bad idea afterall HUH?!
lolercopterroflskates

BEST.MMORPG.RELEASE.EVER



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: peenk on 2006-10-25 23:29 ]</font>

Weak
Oct 26, 2006, 01:36 AM
Cancelling your account and then registering again would be giving Sega extra money.

You get charged the moment you finish registering.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Weak on 2006-10-25 23:36 ]</font>

OmniX4
Oct 26, 2006, 01:39 AM
Hey, I was just wondering if anyone tried logging into two computers with the same ID at the same time. I did this to install the patch on my computer as well as my brother's - but IDK if it'll let you actually play that way. Just throwin' it out there.

AkiraXxx
Oct 26, 2006, 01:52 AM
This no cd key thing was a huge mistake by SEGA.

1.Hackers can run infinite amount of accounts, using CCF to just get a month of time. They log on, due what they need to do, trade the items/gold to a main, let the mule account get banned. Repeat process. And since they dont need CD keys, they can just keep doing this over and over. A cd key would at least have slown many hackers down. Im sure theres already people playing now with ccf'ed credit.

Lythandas
Oct 26, 2006, 01:58 AM
I agree with you zemog, I really think there isn't anything to worry about as far as the "hacking" issue goes being tied to the fact there is no CD-key.

CD-Key generators have been around for ages as well as tons of other hacks and cracks to get through CD or DVD protection. You are still required to make a valid account to play online, and having no CD key does not make it easier to get the media. Images of DVD/CDs are all over the internet, CD key or not. FFXI, for example, can be installed and updated without having to imput a CD key, u just need the key to play online.

But, as far as the increased population goes, again I am not worried at all. The only people who will sign up are the ones who want to pay monthly to play PSU, just like the rest of us. And some shady people who chose to download the game but don't want to pay monthly will enjoy their counterfeit offline version I am sure.

I hope the number of people increases, I hope we have a LARGE community that plays for a long time. Thats what this game is all about. Just don't worry, SEGA knows what they are doing believe it or not. I am sure they have expansion capabilities if the servers get too full, heck, they already did it in Japan. It would just be a mess to split it up after the fact, and about 10 times more work than just adding new servers.

In my humble opinion, mountains are being made out of mole hills, all because there is no 15+ digit number in a little box. Have fun and buy whatever is more comfortable for you to play on. Hope to see you online =)

[edit] When u sign up to play online, you need to pay for the first month I believe. It says one month including 15 free days. Different from a free trial I assume.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lythandas on 2006-10-26 00:00 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lythandas on 2006-10-26 01:04 ]</font>

Animasaki
Oct 26, 2006, 03:29 AM
[edit] When u sign up to play online, you need to pay for the first month I believe. It says one month including 15 free days. Different from a free trial I assume.


Exactly. You're always having to pay to play, even if you can cheat and get the install for free. Let's hope everything works out, because I'm stuck with the PC version at this point, and I'd hate to have to go and buy the 360 version because of a crappy PC playerbase. >_<

Cross
Oct 26, 2006, 03:34 AM
On 2006-10-25 23:52, AkiraXxx wrote:
This no cd key thing was a huge mistake by SEGA.

1.Hackers can run infinite amount of accounts, using CCF to just get a month of time. They log on, due what they need to do, trade the items/gold to a main, let the mule account get banned. Repeat process. And since they dont need CD keys, they can just keep doing this over and over. A cd key would at least have slown many hackers down. Im sure theres already people playing now with ccf'ed credit.



I love how you're trivializing credit card fraud in the same sentence that you're preaching the evils of hacking an online video game.

AkiraXxx
Oct 26, 2006, 03:46 AM
On 2006-10-26 01:34, Cross wrote:

On 2006-10-25 23:52, AkiraXxx wrote:
This no cd key thing was a huge mistake by SEGA.

1.Hackers can run infinite amount of accounts, using CCF to just get a month of time. They log on, due what they need to do, trade the items/gold to a main, let the mule account get banned. Repeat process. And since they dont need CD keys, they can just keep doing this over and over. A cd key would at least have slown many hackers down. Im sure theres already people playing now with ccf'ed credit.



I love how you're trivializing credit card fraud in the same sentence that you're preaching the evils of hacking an online video game.




What? I stated how hackers can easily ccf mule accounts to do what they need to do to trade things to a main.

Aphael
Oct 26, 2006, 04:04 AM
I don't think there's anything to worry about. If Sega takes an impressive hit to profits due to people torrenting, or the servers just go crazy, then I'm sure there's some kind of disc-by-disc bit of unique data Sega can set up a scanner for. Not exactly orthodox, but it's a way to contain the issue until the expansion.

But really, I don't see the problem. For the most part, it looks like (Talking from what I've seen personally) a lot of people who were buying the game are still buying the game. The people torrenting, in large part, wouldn't have paid attention to it otherwise, either due to no interest, lack of funds, or just being stingy.

As far as the influx of cheaters... I dunno. More people can equal more people exploiting, yes, but it doesn't make it any harder to fix by Sega (100 people duping or 100,000 still takes one code patch).

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 09:39 AM
I'll still buy the PC version over the PS2 version for better visuals and performance... If any major issues arise and they take special action for PC players and divide things up (may not even be possible, and of course not expected to happen regardless) I'll just buy the PS2 version later if needed. I'm sure things shouldn't get that out of control anyways. So long as it's not hard for them to add more servers.

otakuP7
Oct 26, 2006, 09:54 AM
Actually last time I looked (about 2 hours ago) only the JP version of PSU pc/ps2 is on torrents right now.

Lol I guess they are too busy trying to play.

Haha No PSU for you today Pirates!

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 10:02 AM
On 2006-10-26 07:54, otakuP7 wrote:
Actually last time I looked (about 2 hours ago) only the JP version of PSU pc/ps2 is on torrents right now.

Lol I guess they are too busy trying to play.

Haha No PSU for you today Pirates!



Please read first post. Discussing 'that' is not welcome. There is another thread if you want in on that conversation. This post is on how it will affect the overall experience for everyone by having more then expected players online and increased server volumes.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zemog on 2006-10-26 08:08 ]</font>

otakuP7
Oct 26, 2006, 10:10 AM
On 2006-10-26 07:54, otakuP7 wrote:
Actually last time I looked (about 2 hours ago) only the JP version of PSU pc/ps2 is on torrents right now.

Lol I guess they are too busy trying to play.

Haha No PSU for you today Pirates!



Of course I read it, my comment was based on the possible reports of piracy already which this thread lead up to.

Forgive me if that comment wasnt something you were looking for.

**Sorry I wasnt aware of the thread that was specifically on the subject of piracy**


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: otakuP7 on 2006-10-26 08:13 ]</font>

_Tek_
Oct 26, 2006, 10:14 AM
sega will lose money, but the online community will grow due to it being so easy to get online now.

people can download it for free and just pay the monthly fee.

Dahilia
Oct 26, 2006, 10:20 AM
On 2006-10-25 23:17, Cross wrote:
Quite frankly, the chances that this is going to hurt the game are practically nonexistent compared to what it could do to help the game.


Hint: If your game has so many subscribers that your servers are packed to the brim and beyond, that's the opposite of a disaster.



Thank you, seriously.

Companies usually use that money to buy new/upgrade current servers to handle the capacity.

Yes, WoW did/does have queues, but they also make new servers and allow for transfers (though not free) to eventually elimate them.

The more, the merrier, I say.

I bet someone's going to make an "I ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE GAME" team.

Wallin
Oct 26, 2006, 10:21 AM
The CD key really has only a small affect on the players, so don't worry.

Most MMORPGs do not even have cd keys now. WoW, for example, can just be downloaded from the site sometimes or by the Refer-a-Friend program, completely avoiding having to buy the game.

If people want to play the game to begin with, they will whether they would've had to buy it in stores or not, so those people don't count as being a problem. The number of people who were unsure about buying the game only because of the store cost is minimal I would say - if people could see past the "awful" monthly fee, usually the game cost wasn't a problem from what I heard on the 360 beta. It's rather expected that you would normally have to buy the game to get a CD key, so people who were thinking about the game before wouldn't be a problem either.

Now as for the "free marketing" crowd, it will pass very quickly. One, if they hadn't heard of the game before, their interest in it is probably low to begin with. In addition to that, just because the software is free doesn't mean people won't be disgusted by the monthly fee - most of them will, especially the crowd who for some reason can't comprehend why they have to pay server and maintenance fees, and those who had little to no interest before will almost definitely turn it away. So in the end, you would probably have 2-4 out of 10 people who download it actually stay and play, and at best, probably only half of that would actually continue to play.

Obviously those statistics are made up, but in my opinion, I think they're relatively close to the truth. I'd say the first month, maybe two, we'll see an increase in people, but that will die over time. Also, the people who did buy the game only to find out that they don't like it will also cancel their accounts, balancing out the people who downloaded it.

Lovejuice
Oct 26, 2006, 10:34 AM
SPOILER: US PSU torrents already exist for PS2 and PC.

Personally, I actually quite welcome this change, if a little bizarre. Sega have obviously made this decision with great faith in their own abilities to run the servers, cheats 'n' all, so it's time for them to step up and prove it or ultimately destroy whatever faith still remains in their online services (well, unless they do a PSO Xbox and just take your money and turn their back on the servers to rot forever in a christmas hell, which is hilarious). The event of many extra thousands of gamers playing PSU online is not a bad thing at all.

Kittycat
Oct 26, 2006, 10:34 AM
After a few generations, the overpopulation of online rpgs will be limited by the virgin players not reproducing. The server load will gravitate back to an equilibrium where there isn't too much lag.

Pure-chan
Oct 26, 2006, 10:53 AM
PSO DCv1 was F2P. ...No inzane server pop explosion there...

BB went free to DL, no massive population explosion there, either...

It might just be me, but worrying about server overpopulation on a Phantasy Star game sounds pretty foreign after playing Phantasy Star: Ghost Town, Phantasy Star: Ghost Town Ver. 2 and Phantasy Star: Ghost Town Episode 1 and 2.

I've never seen more than ~1X,000 people online (at once) on any PSO launch. I don't think we've seen more than ~3,000 active members by the end of year one for any build, either. Regardless of how it occurs, if ST could manage to draw in a paying userbase in the six, or seven figure range, I think you could count that as a win for ST - even with the loss of potential revenue to piracy.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-26 08:54 ]</font>

zemog
Oct 26, 2006, 11:23 AM
Thanks Wallin, that was the kind of opinion I was hoping for with a good argument to back it up. I'm once again seeing clear skies ahead.

Legenden
Oct 26, 2006, 11:51 AM
It could be fun to see the copies sold/players on servers rates,..
Imaging something like 50.000 players/50 copies sold:)

SpikeOtacon
Oct 26, 2006, 11:55 AM
On 2006-10-26 09:51, Legenden wrote:
It could be fun to see the copies sold/players on servers rates,..
Imaging something like 50.000 players/50 copies sold:)



Hooray for goofy statistics!

Shrevn
Oct 26, 2006, 12:03 PM
On 2006-10-25 22:32, googles wrote:
Heres a post from an admin on the official psu forums.


Anyone suggesting methods of piracy will be promptly banned from these boards. Anyone with half a brain knows better than to discuss piracy openly on a Publisher's forum. I am suprised I have to make a post outlining this, as it should be more than obvious.

Yes, the PC game does not have a CD-Key, but that is not an open invitation to discuss ways to exploit it. If you don't understand this distinction, you won't last long on these forums.



I myself was looking into buying this game but with that alone right there is more then enough a reason not to buy it for the obvious reasons http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Zato-2TWO
Oct 26, 2006, 01:04 PM
On 2006-10-26 08:21, Wallin wrote:
Most MMORPGs do not even have cd keys now. WoW, for example, can just be downloaded from the site sometimes or by the Refer-a-Friend program, completely avoiding having to buy the game.


Yes, but to activate a trial account into a real account online you had to pay $40, the price of a CD (if your Account Key doesn't register as having paid for the CD itself). Granted, with the Refer a Friend program you could hand out 14-day trials like candy, but real subscribers would end up paying the bulky purchase price regardless of whether or not they bought the actual game.