Force Healing Expectations

[Wallin]

I've noticed on my hunter, and even often as a force, that a lot of Forces don't really heal - though I'm NOT saying that they HAVE to, I'm just trying to understand the mindset of most Forces in PSU so I can adjust my play to accomodate.

I've played healers a lot of MMORPGs for a long time, so maybe I'm more trained to watch the health meters, or maybe I'm just over-zealous with healing. Though I figure since death and rank are intertwined in PSU, it's rather important.

But PSU is obviously a bit different, Forces are not just healers, they also do damage like any other class (often moreso). But, healing as any other class also costs mates, and if I have to go through 1-10 per battle (depending on the mission) it adds up, while Forces spend quite a bit less on the recharge station.

So my question is, what do you all normally expect from healers (as either a Force or a non-Force)?

Should Forces be expected to heal at any time? Is it courteous to ask all the time, instead of assuming they'll do it on their own? Or should I pretend like the Force is a pure damage dealer as if they didn't have heal at all?

[Aaomi]

I would choose "They should heal if it is needed"

[Randomness]

I try to heal if someones got a decent size chunk of HP missing, and during bosses, I switch into a full healing mode (I still find time to nuke). And on Neudaiz, Reverser is insanely useful.

[Wallin]

Most of the time I only see Forces heal if they get themselves hurt. Sometimes I could run around for a good three minutes with half health, or even with my health in the yellow zone, and they still don't heal. We'll start a fight, I'll take several hits in a row, I'll run to the side, the battle will finish, and they'll run off into the next room while I sit there bleeding all over the floor.

I would say something, but it feels like if they don't do it themselves it's like they think it's a bother, and I don't want to argue with them by justifying the cost of it. I wonder if they're just oblivious or just don't care, which is why I'm asking about this.

[DizzyDi]

On 2006-10-28 19:30, Randomness wrote:
I try to heal if someones got a decent size chunk of HP missing



I think forces should heal like this.
If I was running around with 75% health, it'd be nice to have a heal but I'm not dying for one. When more than half of my bar is gone, yeah I'ma need a resta.

[Beezzy]

I care but I have a 6 people static party (all real life friends).. So I heal all the time.. S RANK FTW!

[Kura-X]

as a temporary force, i expect my people to stop moving around when im trying to heal them >:I

[Funkwell]

I spend a good deal of my time healing, a good force knows his teammates, knows who the tanks are, who is running low on mates and so on. It can be frustrating when playing with strangers though who clearly need to be healed but wont stand still for two seconds when your clearly chasing them trying to heal. It is nice to have someone let out a shout as well during particularly sketchy boss-battles and such, dont be shy let us know you want a heal, thats what were here for.

[Tygrus]

Noob question: I just started a force character. I would love to heal, but my Resta spell is level 1. What is Resta's range? How does it change as it levels up?

[Funkwell]

On 2006-10-28 19:57, Tygrus wrote:
Noob question: I just started a force character. I would love to heal, but my Resta spell is level 1. What is Resta's range? How does it change as it levels up?



the range right from the start is pretty close to you, the more you use it the farther out it will spread, so start healing!

[BlueFire2k5]

It's too bad resta levels up sooo slowly. I've used it quite a lot since I've gotten it, and at level 15 (nearly 16), it's only level 4. -_-

[Miyoko]

Forces should heal any time they can, but they're not obligated to do so. From what I've experienced so far, it's not easy to do so. People shouldn't rely entirely on forces for healing, for everyones sake.

[Blenjar]

As a force since DC to this. I tend to heal time to time if I'm looking at your HP but I don't now because im always attacking.

Ask dammit.

-- Blen

[BooChan]

Since forces are rare online on the PS2. When you do get one in your party who knows their role(Thank You Pandie if your out there) They are a god send. Enemies in PSU put up more of a fight. Teamwok is not a choice but a requirement if you wish to attain money or good items in this game. Forces are the caretakers and heart of a good team. They keep the team alive and fighting. A team I was on last night consisted of one lvl 12 and the rest of us were lvl 6. We took on a beat a 15 + lvl Relic mission with an A rank thanks to little Pandie keeping us alive with her resta.

[Kazlan]

I play as a force and I heal when ever I see the oppertunity too. when I see others hp go down I find them and heal them, even if it means I run right into the middle of a bunch of monsters. maybe its just from playing as a support/healing character so much. though I don't think you should be mad if a force doesn't heal you.

[Darkchampion3]

I heal whenever I see someone below about 2/3 life. However, if you are a suicidal Hu who refuses to stop for a heal and dies, it's not my fault and I'm liable to boot you. Best thing is when they run TO me when they are low, then I dont even have to chase them.

Only have L9 resta at 22 though... it raises almost as slow as a stupid Ra spell.

[Kanore]

I heal when I can. It's just reflex from playing PSO as a FO and WoW as a priest http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Bibberz]

I fall in love with forces who heal. I dont get mad at those who don't, but I feel as if being flooded with oxytocin when a force heals me

[ecchichuu]

I only heal if I think someone's in danger. Most of the time, Hunters are far away from me so I have to chase them if I want to heal them. One time I got killed because I chased a near dead hunter into the middle of battle and after that I was like "@#$ it" come to me if you want a heal.

[Azure247]

Healing when the whole party ihas 75% health is fine with me but when only one person has below 50%, I expect him or her to heal themself.

[Apathy]

My boyfriend is a Force .. he heals.. but there is one thing that i dont think has been addressed yet. When you hunters (Myself included... Female Cast btw yeeeeehooooo!) are going crazy killing everything in sight, it is kinda hard for the force to "tag" a monster for the exp (hitting it just once and doing damage), while running around keeping us alive.

My boyfriend explained this to me once i noticed he began to lag behind in levels, Thus I have adjusted my playing style to reflect this newfound understanding. So yeah I feel Forces should heal, but it is also the duty, or shall I say the courtesy of a Hunter to be understanding if they dont want to be cure bots... as of right now, PSU does not support exp gain for a "White Mage" mindset (sorry for the Final Fantasy refrence there.).. So a "main healer" .. or "Heal Onry" way of thinking isnt reasonable. ... my two bits ... oh yeah .. and my first post ever. ::grin::



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Apathy on 2006-10-28 21:00 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm ok w/ mates but if there is a force who can heal us, then hopefully they will.

[MayLee]

I hate when everyone depends on the Forces a lot, they ask for a healing too much because they are not careful. Just blindly running right into danger..hit and run hit and move.. Also. I don't like the kind of people who get like damaged a little and whine that no one is healing him.

I think a Force is really only needed when they are damaged bad, Yellow zone.

[Spellbinder]

To the poster above, you have to also consider that in the higher levels, a yellow bar is just a breath away from death depending on the situation. So, while yes Forces should be healing (I play one myself), Hunters should try to keep a few mates with them as well. The Force may get knocked down or blown away (very annoying), and may not make it in time.

[DMG]

I heal whenever I see someone below about 2/3 life. However, if you are a suicidal Hu who refuses to stop for a heal and dies, it's not my fault...

QFT

I can slip a Resta in between my Radiga spam fine. What fudges me up, is when I have to chase the wounded all over creation just to heal them. Not that I even mind going to them, but why some purposly run away from free health (even in between battles) I'll never know.

While I'm venting, if you are in a position where you're clearly too far from a force to get a heal promptly, don't be afraid to pop a 'mate if you need. At least a small one to buy time until you can recieve a proper heal. /rant

[newbieroadkil]

The other side of the coin:

Resta costs an insane amount of PP to use. I believe it's been costing me 40 pp a cast since it hit level 11 (but the radius seems much bigger thankfully), but the intial cost is 30. If I'm popping off a resta, it is to heal as many people as possible, so if you don't stay with the group I'm likely to miss you. Having to pop off two or three heals every time the party needs healing because people won't group up will tear through a rod's pp stock in no time.

With the fact that meseta drops are not auto distrubed in the part (at least on the default loot settings, haven't expermiented with the other ones yet) and the fact that hunters are in position to get to the meseta drops before you do, it can really drain your funds. In a poor performing party, I'll end up spending over 300 meseta in pp repair costs, and many times will barely break even on meseta for the run (if the rank is not S).

I've also been having something screwy happening tonight where I use spells right away after switching weapons or zoning. So even though I'm trying to switch to the healstick, it'll be 5-10 seconds before it will actually let me cast the resta and other spells. Seemed to happen more often when switching from a wand/gun to rod and vice versa. Hope it doesn't keep happening.

Maylee highlighted the biggest problem with being a force in a party though: people tend to get very sloppy while playing with a force and just take hits they don't need to be. It is like a little light switch goes off in their head or something. In all the good parties I've been in the only time I really need to heal is to top everyone off in between fights.

[Spacepest]

On 2006-10-28 20:07, Miyoko wrote:
Forces should heal any time they can, but they're not obligated to do so. From what I've experienced so far, it's not easy to do so. People shouldn't rely entirely on forces for healing, for everyones sake.



Agreed. Even in our static games in PSO, our forces were not obligated 100% to heal everyone. Why? People do stupid things sometimes that causes them to die, (especially if someone in the party is new or a pick up from the lobby). Plus there were too many times where a monster could one shot a person to death (spitting megid monsters) or sometimes kill a player in one or two hits before the force could get there to heal them in time. (This is why we carried mates, on our toons at all times...sometimes the only thing saving a player from instant death was an instant full heal from a trimate. The forces in a party can't be expected to be everywhere at once).

Also part of the reason I haven't taken up a force yet on PSU (although I really do want to in the future). I looked at buying techs from the shop, and realized I didn't have the cash yet to start a decent force. The idea of being very limited in my spell casting at first due to lack of cash makes me want to wait to start a force later in the game.

[Xtra-1]

The only thing that bugs me is when people don't strafe around and try to at least dodge any attacks... they just stand there and spam attack and get hit just because there is a force there healing. I've only had one person die because they stood right under the Dragon boss's Flame Breath and didn't move which eventually lead to him getting killed in 5 secs or less.

The advantage of being a force is you get invites all the time once people know you actually heal http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[drmcst45]

On 2006-10-29 01:07, Xtra-1 wrote:
The only thing that bugs me is when people don't strafe around and try to at least dodge any attacks... they just stand there and spam attack and get hit just because there is a force there healing. I've only had one person die because they stood right under the Dragon boss's Flame Breath and didn't move which eventually lead to him getting killed in 5 secs or less.

The advantage of being a force is you get invites all the time once people know you actually heal http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



i agree.

They think just cuz there's a force it = instant heal.

I really hate the fckerz that run away from you when u try to heal them.

[Remedy]

On 2006-10-28 19:39, Kura-X wrote:
as a temporary force, i expect my people to stop moving around when im trying to heal them >:I

This.

Hell, I even made a cut-in chat for it: @s90{red}STOP MOVING OR NO RESTA.

But yeah, I heal if someone's below 75%-ish. Otherwise, you're fine and my PP could be used for blowing things up.

[Kaply]

Forces shouldn't have to heal during combat. Especially since they have such a hard time tagging enemies. Why should a FO lose out on xp because the hunters don't buy decent enough armor to survive or learn to dodge enemies? It's bad enough that I have to spend my own meseta to refill the PP cost of the spell.

Just a rant, but it's still valid problems with healing as a FO.

[Spacepest]

On 2006-10-29 01:47, Remedy wrote:

On 2006-10-28 19:39, Kura-X wrote:
as a temporary force, i expect my people to stop moving around when im trying to heal them >:I

This.

Hell, I even made a cut-in chat for it: @s90{red}STOP MOVING OR NO RESTA.




LOL awesome! Its like a force disclaimer warning for suicidal players.

[rush340]

It's the player's choice of whether they want to be a healer.

My force doesn't even have resta yet. I only use foie and rafoie, and the occasional monomate when I need a heal. I prefer to play as an offensive force. I might grab resta later for personal use, but attacking already drains enough PP.

It gets a little annoying when your party expects you to have resta and/or be willing to keep them alive with it just because your a force.

[Mikaga]

I believe Forces should use Resta simply because it's available to them and because MP is cheaper than Mates.

I do not believe Hunters should run straight into the center of a pack of monsters, take a ton of damage and implicitly expect any and all Forces to be their "HP battery" slaves.*

It works both ways, really. If the Hunters aren't even *trying* to be party players, why should the Forces be expected to cater to their lousy abilities?

---

* Okay, yeah. I know. That's how it worked in PSO. But things are different now. Attack techs actually deal damage. Forces can be OTHER than healers at long last.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikaga on 2006-10-29 03:54 ]</font>

[ryuartyi]

Personally, I heal when someone's about to screw up my S Rank...

[Kurushii]

I see no problems healing people. If a force can't do the job of attacking and supporting at the same time then they don't need to be playing a force. If you say that is harsh then learn to play. Like a previous poster said it is easy to switch weapons in the middle of a tech spam to cast a resta or reverser. When your cast animation is just starting you should be cycling down to your staff/rod that has your resta/reverser. It isn't like you have to run much to reach a person to heal because after level 11 resta it is pretty far range. Anyone that has playied with me knows i'll clear a room and have every support covered, only reason someone dies is they get one shoted (weak armor using people) or they were idiots and ran in the wrong direction away from me. And for the PP cost comments. It's called carry mulitple rods, I have four +5 Rayharods I carry for each attack element and two +5 Rayharods for resta/reverser (297tab/1059pp a piece). http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[LocGaw]

Well, as a Force, I am in the safest spot I can be nuking away. Many of the hunters that I play with know where and how I move. All they need do is run by and the heal is theirs.
Here is the trick, sometimes I am the only healer. I also carry the most PP. If the battle is long and you are out of mates/PP, I still usually have multiple DD possibilitys and the juice to still heal. However, at this point should the Force go down, there is going to be a long fight left. So once the mates/PP are gone, I simply refuse to move much closer to a boss than the edge of my spells. I would rather you fall back and hit and run than say, slash at the De Ragen's feet and get trampled repeatedly....

Just my 2 mes.

The force should be on top of healing. The force should not have to get pummled to heal the hunters because they won't fall back or fall back to the far side and refuse to move...

[Jife_Jifremok]

As a ranger who's always running around to tag enemies and spread my damage/statuses, I couldn't possibly expect a heal mid-battle. It's my job to not get hit anyway, even if I'm flailing a saber around in a crowd of enemies. I just hope the forces don't try and chase me around, since I often can't even see them amidst the carnage.

[Evolution]

I played a force on PSO for a long time, my main character on the PSU beta was also a force, when I get the game later this week I plan to make another force.

As a force I honestly don't mind healing people infact I like to do it whenever theres someone who is low in health, what does bother me is the fact that people feel that a force is OBLIGATED to heal you. The heal radius is pretty short in psu, especially with low level resta, there were a few times when I was in games and someone would be low in health and they'd ask for a heal, so I'd run over to them but they just kept on moving/fighting while expecting me to heal, so a lot of the time i'd miss with resta running after the person who needs healing.

Usually when I play now I tell everyone that if they need healing just come close to me and I'll heal, it works out a lot better because for the most part people know how much damage they can or can't take, when they're low they just come over to me, I heal they go back to doing their thing, no PP is wasted and time is also saved.

So in closing I have absolutly NO problem as a force healing people, its just when someone asks for a heal and I have to chase em down to heal em.. that bothers me.

[Brockenstein]

I have recently gone from playing FFXI as a Red Mage (Back Up Cure) where I will be nuking/de-buffing/buffing and will cure I have also been main cure as that as well as that job. Then I went to CoHs where healers really had strong powerful attacks BUT theu still healed in that game as a tank I had one cure move that took forever to come back and you ran out of healing items really fast. I then played PSOBB I have played the others before and the mages then didn't cure alot as well. Now I would like to try out PSU Mage class although I haven't yet the main reason I want to is because in the last few MMOs I have played I haven't had the curing/magic damage job that I love.

So IMO a Mage should ALWAYs keep an eye on the parties health. The only reason NOT to is if you in a big battle the mobs HP is real low and you can kill it by nuking away and you have no MP/TP/PP (or what ever its called now lol) to cure. If you can cure YOU CURE! But thats just my opioin and I will ask and remind mages in parties when I need curing if they aren't on top of it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brockenstein on 2006-10-29 05:13 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brockenstein on 2006-10-29 05:14 ]</font>

[pso123hrf]

I like playing as a force, and I just bought resta today. I dont think people should constantly expect a resta. If they ask, then i'd give them the uber boost (resta + shifta + deband + [the yellow and light boost])

[Flunky]

I only really expect a heal from forces if we're not in combat and I'm rather hurt or have a bad status effect. I tend not to ask just because I figure they don't want to hear 'heal?' 80-bajillion times per dungeon. In combat, I'll assume that they've got things to deal with just like I do, and use up my mates if I'm getting close to death.

That said, I do expect forces to heal SOME of the time, like the out of combat portion I mentioned earler. Resta costs about 800 meseta and using it is a bloody lot cheaper than using up a bagful of mates. The first time I notice that a force is healing I tend to let 'em know they've got my thanks, but after that I assume they know how thankful I am.

[PhantasyK2]

Great thread - I have been struggling with my Force for two primary reasons:

1. I have to juggle weapons (making sure that I tag Monsters at least once for EXP) - doesn't sound like a big deal but it can get cumbersome in the heat of battle

2. Unless Item Distribution is on my Force is hardly getting ANY pickups on the battlefield - this is very frustrating - I imagine it is the same for Rangers

[Flamingo99]

My main is a Force right now. If someone is about to die, i'll heal them, but I expect people to heal themselves too.

[Kaply]

See, the issue with early level force healing is that you have such a short range. If someone's going down fast i expect them to use some mates to recover. It's not exactly the easiest thing to look at the party HP bars and then go track down the characters who's in need of healing on the mini map, gets even worse if they're not even on the mini map.

[Killuminati]

On 2006-10-28 21:55, MayLee wrote:
I hate when everyone depends on the Forces a lot, they ask for a healing too much because they are not careful. Just blindly running right into danger..hit and run hit and move.. Also. I don't like the kind of people who get like damaged a little and whine that no one is healing him.

I think a Force is really only needed when they are damaged bad, Yellow zone.



I agree with you %100 when I make my force I hope people don't exspect me to just sit back and heal them the whole game. PSO was never about that people get this idea from playing wow and ffxi where there are jobs that are designated for this I play many of my missions without fos because honestly I don't need one to heal me.

There should also be an option that says fos should only heal when they feel its the best time like someone is in yellow.

If someone is at %75 I don't see the need for a fo to heal when they can just use a mate to get full health.

Also I hate when someone tells me how to play ugh... this goes back to my ffxi days...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Killuminati on 2006-10-29 07:20 ]</font>

[Saigan]

Any Force who isn't willing to heal shouldn't be playing network mode. I saw this time and time again on PSO where FOs wanted to do damage instead. Nukers should stick to manaburn parties or soloing. For a team to perform its best everybody must contribute. Nuke until someone's health drops then go heal them. It isn't hard.

And yes, I was a FO on PSO and am again on PSU. Heck once debuffs come out I'll just use those to tag and then stalk my team with Resta and Reverser.

EDIT: Every team I've been in has said "you're the best Force I've played with." Oh- and another thing, tagging with a nuke and then waiting on healing folks is an excellent way to conserve PP instead of draining your rods trying to outdamage a HU.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saigan on 2006-10-29 07:28 ]</font>

[Spellbinder]

Although I am an advocate of Resta, sometimes Nuking can be equal in value. The few importers who play with Kikyou will know what I'm talking about when I mention S Rank Linear Line. ^_^

[Shrevn]

Broken Loot system FTL.
Look this has been a debate since PSO no forces want to stand back and heal (even do they can) simply because the ammount of items they miss out and XP... Another reason why they're the least played class in the game simply because every hunter in the world wants to just pick everything up they find along the way

[DMG]

Loot can be set in order or random now. I won't even join FFA games anymore.

[Killuminati]

On 2006-10-29 07:25, Saigan wrote:
Any Force who isn't willing to heal shouldn't be playing network mode. I saw this time and time again on PSO where FOs wanted to do damage instead. Nukers should stick to manaburn parties or soloing. For a team to perform its best everybody must contribute. Nuke until someone's health drops then go heal them. It isn't hard.

And yes, I was a FO on PSO and am again on PSU. Heck once debuffs come out I'll just use those to tag and then stalk my team with Resta and Reverser.

EDIT: Every team I've been in has said "you're the best Force I've played with." Oh- and another thing, tagging with a nuke and then waiting on healing folks is an excellent way to conserve PP instead of draining your rods trying to outdamage a HU.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saigan on 2006-10-29 07:28 ]</font>


Dude you cant tell people what they can and cannot do if your too cheap to buy mates and too lazy to heal yourself then you deserve to die. Fos are the best DD in the game later on. This isn't ffxi or wow.

[Feelmirath]

I reckon forces should have the healing thing down. It gets you EXP for resta, and if you have it, flaunt it ;o

[Killuminati]

On 2006-10-29 08:19, Shrevn wrote:
Broken Loot system FTL.
Look this has been a debate since PSO no forces want to stand back and heal (even do they can) simply because the ammount of items they miss out and XP... Another reason why they're the least played class in the game simply because every hunter in the world wants to just pick everything up they find along the way



I don't think finding stuff is the problem it's the lack of exp you get when you have to heal noobs that don't know how to heal themselves.

[Shrevn]

On 2006-10-29 08:20, DMG wrote:
Loot can be set in order or random now. I won't even join FFA games anymore.



apparently not meseta which is still broken. If they would just SIMPLY bother to see warcraft anyone who picks up money is split into however many ppl are in ur group makes it so much fair and easier http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Rieter]

Our group's pet force doesnt heal unless he is hurt, which is fine. I dont get hit unless he is fixin to and then its usually gone wrong anyways, so I still get the free heal. He will throw one down if its asked for, but otherwise, its not a focus of his at this moment as hes more useful clearing things than being a heal bot. The ONLY thing we ask him to do asap is take care of debuffs, otherwise, hes free to do as he wants.

[HC82]

Once your resta hits 11, it's no longer an issue about healing range.

Common sense dictates that if you're far away from the force and monomates drop very often in every stage, which they do, use a damn mate if you're low on health. The exception is if the stage is easy, in which case low health is not a liability.

At level 11 your range is wide enough to throw out a heal inbetween techs. It's only an issue if everyone is all over the place, in which case they should just use a mate. It's not worth costing the team S rank so you can save a mate and steal the kill. Everyone should use common sense when playing and do what is best for achieving S rank and the team. If you're low level doing ass damage and the FO is obviously doing 10x your damage, try not to be a liability and wait for heals if you're far away.


If I go full support and run to everyone who needs heals, my exp gets cut in half per run. I can usually tag twice with RA before things start dying in a room, and thats in C rank. If the stage requires a lot of healing, chances are the team can't kill the enemies that fast, so I can tag everything then heal as needed. You just gotta play according to the stage.

[Callous]

I don't expect a Force to heal me unless it is absolutely necessary. If I am a Force myself, I will heal when *I* deem it is necessary for the best of the party - and depending on the behaviour of people in that party. At a boss, or if we're in way over our heads, I'll typically switch mostly to healing.

If you constantly find yourself in need of being healed and are bitching about Mates (and the area is otherwise suited to your level), you either suck or you chose the wrong class. Forces aren't here to serve you. They're here to have fun, just like you.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Callous on 2006-10-29 09:18 ]</font>

[l0c0dantes]

If I like you, Ill heal you, If not Too bad

You can get 20 monomates for 1000

That is 200,000 HP worth of healing for 1k meseta

If that is too much for you, learn how to get hit less, dodging, kocking people off thier feet, useing long range weps. There is no reason for a force to be a healer class for no other reason than he wants to.

[Ryo_Hayasa]

I apprecaite FOs who heal when they can because i know how hard it is in PSU to use resta over and over. it's just too much, healing a party and then finding time to attack still.

Then again with two FOs in your party, one committed to healing, it makes things alot easier, I never once used a mate, because i had a FO who was backing us, it wasn't like i was getting damaged but when i got hit, "bam" full health. It was amazing.

Then again, as a FO in a party, and even as party leader, you feel that you're baby sitting...

[SiegeV]

I like to think of it this way: if someone ends up dying, everyone loses out. I try to heal everyone simply because that improves the chances of getting S rank. However, I'm not a fan of people who beg for heals. I give heals without anyone telling me, but if someone orders me around, I'll probably be a lot less likely to heal.

But at the same time, if I fail to heal, use a damn mate. I can't be on top of healing all the time.

At any rate, Resta is sadly the easiest thing for me to target, since I fail at magic spam D: I wish the Z-target locking worked for Rangers and Forces too. So annoying.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SiegeV on 2006-10-29 09:44 ]</font>

[HaloMaster24]

I play as a Force and heal when I deem necesaary.

I don't heal when some kid yells "HEAL ME!!1!!1"

Forces are trying to level their character and TECHNICS as well, so use some common sense and heal yourself, you can fford some mates.

[Shanira]

Wouldn't anyone who's played through story mode already be used to forces healing almost never and then only when you're either not in range or not in need of healing? >_>

[myomer]

As a Force I expect myself to be on top of healing BUT as others have mentioned, I will heal when I see a threat to the party member as opposed to someone yelling at me to top off their HP because they got dinged. As well, I expect people to know how to use Monomates/Dimates/Trimates when I can't get to their position. 5 people scattered everywhere with half their health down is not a good situation for a Force. Not to be too blunt but I'm not a babysitter nor do I only look at HP bars all through the mission.

As well, I have other TECHNICS that help out. At least have the expectation that I would like to throw a radiga or two to tag the mobs so I can get some xp. I don't chain nuke, just want some action at the start.

If all that is acceptable, then I'm your resta Force person http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I will take responsibility for deaths if all the above is considered first. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kie]

im a force and I always heal even if sombody is missing a sliver b/c I need to get my resta up

[Carlo210]

DD

[Wickerman]

I think you're missing at least two options.

Anyway, don't expect to get healed by a force, especially if you're way across a room. Always bring your own mates for emergencies, becuase to get healed by resta, you have to be next to the one casting it.

My advice would be for everyone to set a hotkey asking for a heal and hitting it when they're within range of a force.

[Ninpo_Tamashii]

This is some bull shyt. I thought This freaking thread was done back in WoW when I was being a fucking shadow priest. People have diffrent freaking play styles, FOrces have it annoying becuase we have to somehow find time to spam techs so they get stronger, tag enemies, and still resta idiots who run from you like you have some sorta disease when you are low Health. While you are trying to resta'ing your group constantly (If you are lucky enough to tag before the demolish everything in all freaking directions.) You have to worry about the strength of your techs. Without strenthening them, the range on them is utter trash. You strengthen them just like photon arts. This shyt isn't fair becuase Hunters can spam their technqiues all day long and level them without worry about anything but the damage they are dealing and taking in.

Forces are expected to do the same damn thing, but not only that, be aware of your surroundings, each person on the screen, AND Heal properly/debuff when status ailments are attained. And somehow still keep leveling our techs so we don't have to break our damn necks with crappy 1-10 level tech range. Its bull shit.

With all that said I still enjoy playing the class, just understand this class isn't something an idiot can play, and A good force can be made to seem like a bad force if you expect them to be your freaking maid. Help your damn force out and use common sense. If you are the only one low on life and the room is full of monsters, freaking heal your damn self. Hell I'll give you a freaking monomate to do it with just so you can stop bytching and not kill our damn rank cus I'm trying to help kill enemies faster so less damage is taken by spamming my AoE's and resta'ing when more than a single person needs it/its pracitcal.

Forces, Like shadow priests on WoW, are capable of supporting a group and dealing damage to help support their group. And I'm getting sick of people trying to go "LTP" Just becuase they want to be able to nonstop spam their PA's and throwing caution to the wind just becuase a healer is there. Play a force, and see how it is, then come on here bytching about forces not healing you. Do you even *know* how hard it is to level techs in comparison to PA's?

Forces don't play the game to be people's servants, and it sickens me that people have a lack of respect for forces and wont'd o their part, but expect the force to do freaking everything. (-calms down before I fly off the handle *AGAIN* about this crap-) all in all if everyone is doing waht they are suposed to do, healing on a force is easy. its just morons who don't know what they are doing that japordize everything and expect us to split ourselves in half and be everywhere at Once. While still leveling up just like you guys are, PA's and all.

Mah 10 freakin' cents.

[Saigan]

Alright- you guys can NOT heal your parties and I'LL befriend everyone. I'm alot more effective with a live meat shield in front of me than a dead one.

It's a team game- that tends to mean TEAMWORK. And if you can't tag enemies when you have 4 AoE spells you need to pick a different job class or learn to aim.

[rush340]

On 2006-10-29 04:41, Kurushii wrote:
I see no problems healing people. If a force can't do the job of attacking and supporting at the same time then they don't need to be playing a force. If you say that is harsh then learn to play. Like a previous poster said it is easy to switch weapons in the middle of a tech spam to cast a resta or reverser. When your cast animation is just starting you should be cycling down to your staff/rod that has your resta/reverser. It isn't like you have to run much to reach a person to heal because after level 11 resta it is pretty far range. Anyone that has playied with me knows i'll clear a room and have every support covered, only reason someone dies is they get one shoted (weak armor using people) or they were idiots and ran in the wrong direction away from me. And for the PP cost comments. It's called carry mulitple rods, I have four +5 Rayharods I carry for each attack element and two +5 Rayharods for resta/reverser (297tab/1059pp a piece). http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Well yeah, when I finally get enough money to have that many decent rods, I'll get resta and heal. But for now, I just got my first slyrod last night. Hopefully that will help a bit, but the two ~500pp wands I had before that didn't leave any PP to spare on healing. I guess my problem is that I'm a poor little newman http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Carlo210]

It's funny because a force isn't required for a party, but when a force IS in a party, people act as if they're gonna die if the force doesn't be a white mage.

[Carlo210]

On 2006-10-29 10:27, Ninpo_Tamashii wrote:
This is some bull shyt. I thought This freaking thread was done back in WoW when I was being a fucking shadow priest. People have diffrent freaking play styles, FOrces have it annoying becuase we have to somehow find time to spam techs so they get stronger, tag enemies, and still resta idiots who run from you like you have some sorta disease when you are low Health. While you are trying to resta'ing your group constantly (If you are lucky enough to tag before the demolish everything in all freaking directions.) You have to worry about the strength of your techs. Without strenthening them, the range on them is utter trash. You strengthen them just like photon arts. This shyt isn't fair becuase Hunters can spam their technqiues all day long and level them without worry about anything but the damage they are dealing and taking in.

Forces are expected to do the same damn thing, but not only that, be aware of your surroundings, each person on the screen, AND Heal properly/debuff when status ailments are attained. And somehow still keep leveling our techs so we don't have to break our damn necks with crappy 1-10 level tech range. Its bull shit.

With all that said I still enjoy playing the class, just understand this class isn't something an idiot can play, and A good force can be made to seem like a bad force if you expect them to be your freaking maid. Help your damn force out and use common sense. If you are the only one low on life and the room is full of monsters, freaking heal your damn self. Hell I'll give you a freaking monomate to do it with just so you can stop bytching and not kill our damn rank cus I'm trying to help kill enemies faster so less damage is taken by spamming my AoE's and resta'ing when more than a single person needs it/its pracitcal.

Forces, Like shadow priests on WoW, are capable of supporting a group and dealing damage to help support their group. And I'm getting sick of people trying to go "LTP" Just becuase they want to be able to nonstop spam their PA's and throwing caution to the wind just becuase a healer is there. Play a force, and see how it is, then come on here bytching about forces not healing you. Do you even *know* how hard it is to level techs in comparison to PA's?

Forces don't play the game to be people's servants, and it sickens me that people have a lack of respect for forces and wont'd o their part, but expect the force to do freaking everything. (-calms down before I fly off the handle *AGAIN* about this crap-) all in all if everyone is doing waht they are suposed to do, healing on a force is easy. its just morons who don't know what they are doing that japordize everything and expect us to split ourselves in half and be everywhere at Once. While still leveling up just like you guys are, PA's and all.

Mah 10 freakin' cents.


Bravo!

[Evolution]

Ninpo_Tamashii I agree with you 100%

[newbieroadkil]

Another underlying problem is the fact that there are so few rangers out there. The flinching/status effects they can inflict save quite a bit of healing. I heal about half as much in a party with rangers vs a force/hunter only party.

[Callous]

On 2006-10-29 10:33, Carlo210 wrote:
It's funny because a force isn't required for a party, but when a force IS in a party, people act as if they're gonna die if the force doesn't be a white mage.

This sums everything up perfectly. It's SO true. Nothing more needs to be said.

[googles]

I play a force, and i heal. Every party i start or join ends with an A or S rank because i dont let anyone die.

[Midicronica]

Kudos to Ninpo_Tamashii!

I do my job of healing when I see someone who as a reasonable amount of health missing. I just hate having to jump all over the screen to heal my mates, because they won't fucking stay still. Before I can even heal some of them they're off to the next room to horde all the exp for themselves. That's my only beef with healing and being a force. I still don't have the game yet, (GameFly is slow as heck) but when I played on the X360 Beta I had a smart team mate that I could do numerous runs with and only have to heal him once or twice, giving me the time to focus on my long bow's PA's and my rod's techs.

[AugustWest]

I don't worry about healing to much if items are distributed by giving to finder as opposed to random/inorder.

[HaloMaster24]

On 2006-10-29 10:31, Saigan wrote:

It's a team game- that tends to mean TEAMWORK. And if you can't tag enemies when you have 4 AoE spells you need to pick a different job class or learn to aim.



Yes, so Hunters can be part of the team and look out for the team by healing themselves and not completely relying on Forces for healing. I mean mates are cheap and easy to find.

Also, if Hunters can't deal damage AND watch their health and take care to make sure they don't die without big borther Force watching out for them, they need to find a new class.

[MayLee]

On 2006-10-28 22:03, Spellbinder wrote:
To the poster above, you have to also consider that in the higher levels, a yellow bar is just a breath away from death depending on the situation. So, while yes Forces should be healing (I play one myself), Hunters should try to keep a few mates with them as well. The Force may get knocked down or blown away (very annoying), and may not make it in time.

True but I want some action, how els will I get EXP points to level up and become strong enough to at least put up a fight withought getting hit once and I'm down for the count.


While people are killing the monsters I want some of that EXP instead of falling behind because I have to be up under people and heal them.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MayLee on 2006-10-29 12:18 ]</font>

[HatMaster]

I play a Force and I heal whenever I get the chance. But healing as a Force is somewhat difficult. If you're a force, then one TECH from you is pretty much guaranteed to take a good chunk out of an opponent's life. Thus, you have to keep an eye on opponents and nuke because it makes battles much shorter and easier on your team. Also, potential status effects help the team as a whole also.

In addition to keeping an eye on all the action, you need to keep an eye on EVERYONE'S health. Then, if someone's health is going down, you need to find them. All of that is acceptable. What's annoying are people who RUN from Resta. If your health is half down, and mine is full and you notice that I keep casting Resta, guess why?

Forces need to help with healing because it's simply faster and can heal multiple people. But the other members need to realize that we'll try our best, but it would make things run a lot smoother if they CAME for the heal, as opposed to making us run to them to do it. You're not going to lose a lot of EXP by heading to the nearest force and getting a quick heal.

[Pure-chan]

Force was my favorite class on PSO and I'll more than likely be playing as a fonewearl again on PSU (once I get online). The bottom line is that, as a force, it is your job to control the pace of your team. If you want to level slowly and have a lower score - then don't support your teammates. If you prefer getting a higher rank - support your teamates.

A good force is responsibile for supporting their team with healing, buffs and debuffs, in addition to laying waste to mobs. This was the case on PSO and looks to be even more critical on PSU, where everyone will be effected if someone dies.

Sure, there are players that are too stupid to run back within healing range or use mates; however, within a party where people are functiong as a team, there's no excuse to not offer support, imo.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-29 13:03 ]</font>

[HatMaster]

Sure, there are players that are too stupid to run back within healing range or use mates; however, within a party where people are functiong as a team, there's no excuse to not offer support, imo.




I agree Forces need to offer support. I just think that in order to do that well, the rest of the team needs to realize what we're trying to do and make it easier. If we're fighting Omnagoug and he's laying down fireballs everywhere, which makes more sense: Get hit and then stay near to him, forcing the Force to run in for the heal and probably killing both of you OR Get hit and then head to the Force who can heal you and still stay out of range, allowing him/her to continue nuking/healing as needed?


Someone's going to say the first one, just to be spiteful. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Guilty-Mirage]

In response to no one person in particular:

When a Force "should" heal (imo)...

#1: If they have spare time / PP, which isn't often.

#2: If it's an emergency.

Aside from those situations? Screw that. People are supposed to carry -mates and such around for a reason. Forces are not nursemaids. Healing is not why they're in the game. It's something they can do, and it's nice, and it's useful... but having a Force in the party is no excuse for everyone else to slack off and think they suddenly don't need to use their items.

Considering how ridiculously abundant -mates are, there's no reason to pitch a fit at the Force about healing you. It's also no excuse for being a moron as a Hunter and charging into melee with something you really shouldn't (or at a time you shouldn't) and taking a crap ton of damage... "because the Force will heal me, right?" The Force has other crap to worry about. If you get a heal, be grateful... but don't act like you somehow deserve a heal every time you get hurt. Pop a -mate and fight more intelligently.

[Silver_Wyrm]

good forces will be "on top of it" which doesnt mean keep everyone at 100%, 100% of the time, on big enemies and bosses thye need to be ready to swap quick.

liekwise, rangers and hunters cant fear using their mates, if I take a big hit I drop a dimate, people who actually depend solely on a force are gonan die and lsoe the srank for the gorup, because forces need to do dmg too, they do quite a bit, and need to sdo so to get exp too. So you shoudl expect them to help, but not rely on it they cant always be there

[Roguearthur]

i hate this, forces never heal me. i hate wasting my mates when i dont need to, since i know its a force but i never see him casting spells i think they should make forces better like more PP since i see a force attack for like one fight then dont do anything for the rest of the battle.

[MayLee]

Hat Master, dude..you quadruple posted and I don't thjink it was on accident either.

[HatMaster]

I deleted those posts. The website went down when I was trying to post, so I thought it didn't read my 'Submit.' It did. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2006-10-29 13:23, HatMaster wrote:
I deleted those posts. The website went down when I was trying to post, so I thought it didn't read my 'Submit.' It did. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


same I deleted my extras too

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2006-10-29 13:12, Roguearthur wrote:
i hate this, forces never heal me. i hate wasting my mates when i dont need to, since i know its a force but i never see him casting spells i think they should make forces better like more PP since i see a force attack for like one fight then dont do anything for the rest of the battle.


they can carry 6 rods and have last a looooong time, and have one devoted to healign since it wont run out fast

[entropyboy]

On 2006-10-29 12:57, Pure-chan wrote:
Force was my favorite class on PSO and I'll more than likely be playing as a fonewearl again on PSU (once I get online). The bottom line is that, as a force, it is your job to control the pace of your team. If you want to level slowly and have a lower score - then don't support your teammates. If you prefer getting a higher rank - support your teamates.

A good force is responsibile for supporting their team with healing, buffs and debuffs, in addition to laying waste to mobs. This was the case on PSO and looks to be even more critical on PSU, where everyone will be effected if someone dies.

Sure, there are players that are too stupid to run back within healing range or use mates; however, within a party where people are functiong as a team, there's no excuse to not offer support, imo.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-29 13:03 ]</font>


As a veteran force from PSO, i completely agree with this.

If you have a force in your party that refuses to heal or support and only wants to nukes, i would advise kicking them.

I would rather get a few less xp from not tagging an enemy then allowing the rank of the entire team to go down because i didnt toss a resta. it'll get easier once more of the spells are released, I MISS TAGGING WITH JELLEN/ZALURE!

[Roguearthur]

On 2006-10-29 13:25, Silver_Wyrm wrote:

On 2006-10-29 13:12, Roguearthur wrote:
i hate this, forces never heal me. i hate wasting my mates when i dont need to, since i know its a force but i never see him casting spells i think they should make forces better like more PP since i see a force attack for like one fight then dont do anything for the rest of the battle.


they can carry 6 rods and have last a looooong time, and have one devoted to healign since it wont run out fast

Yes, i was thikning that but you know most forces wont buy that many weapons, if i play a force or ranger im going to wait awhile till i can get like 6 of things so i dont run out ^_^

[HatMaster]

It's not about whether or not to support. I think all Forces feel that they should help with the support and healing. I just, personally, feel like in order to do so, the rest of the team needs to help me help them. In order to keep things running smoothly, just keep an eye on your own HP, run to a nearby Force if you need a heal and use a mate if you think that things are really too hectic.

If a teammate really needs a heal, I tend to run into large groups of enemies or within range of a boss' attacks to help them. This often gets me killed as my frail, Newmann body doesn't handle pain well. But when I've played with a team that is willing to come to me for a heal, things generally run smoother. They get the Resta and a little bit of a breather. I get to stay out of the danger zone, and everyone gets to not die.

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2006-10-29 13:39, Roguearthur wrote:

On 2006-10-29 13:25, Silver_Wyrm wrote:

On 2006-10-29 13:12, Roguearthur wrote:
i hate this, forces never heal me. i hate wasting my mates when i dont need to, since i know its a force but i never see him casting spells i think they should make forces better like more PP since i see a force attack for like one fight then dont do anything for the rest of the battle.


they can carry 6 rods and have last a looooong time, and have one devoted to healign since it wont run out fast

Yes, i was thikning that but you know most forces wont buy that many weapons, if i play a force or ranger im going to wait awhile till i can get like 6 of things so i dont run out ^_^


I carry 5 atm on my ranger, waiting for lucky day to synth a kickass 6th, Id do the same with force when I start one, but not eveyrone does =/

[Killuminati]

On 2006-10-29 11:22, googles wrote:
I play a force, and i heal. Every party i start or join ends with an A or S rank because i dont let anyone die.



I dont see your point really... I can play with 4 hunters and we get s rank on our missions. It's about the people you play with.

[HolyCecil]

I'm with Yui.

I heal whenever I see the oppurtunity.
1. It's nice to be of maximum use to a party. Being able to heal and nuke is an asset.
2. I want to level up my Resta!! So there's definately a selfish part to it.

I tend not to heal if only a small part of someone's bar is chipped off, but when there's a decent sized chunk, then I will heal whenever the battle is finished or if it's a semi-emergency, I'll run over there and help. Honestly, casting a heal is pretty nice considering I'll regenerate the PP overtime anyway.

[Fin]

I switch between healing and nuking quite frequently - I'm not going to pass by the chance for some skillups. I mean, resta/reverser is meant to be used, so I think one should cast it if needed. Typically I'll run after someone that needs a heal (there's a reason why I seem do die a lot....) but I'm not letting the other members of the party getting away with being slaved all the time - if you have less than half hp and continue to jump into mobs without running near me or using a mono, it's not my fault if you die. I'm only human, and I have to work for my own exp as well, so at least say something or try to get to me if I'm busy so I can help you.

[MayLee]

On 2006-10-29 13:23, HatMaster wrote:
I deleted those posts. The website went down when I was trying to post, so I thought it didn't read my 'Submit.' It did. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Ah, alright. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Yoiyami]

Just because a person is a force doesn't mean that it's their playstyle. If you see a person with a wand and a gun, shooting and nuking, then obviously that persons concern isn't babysitting people that are too selfish or too careless to use a mate. I understand that some people run out of mates and will need a heal, that's fine. But to expect a force to chase you down to heal you just because they're a force is awfully selfish.

Instead of expecting them to be on top of taking care of everyone, you should ask them to watch your back if they can. Just because they can heal doesn't mean that they have to, so have respect.

[AlphaMinotaux]

boss fights is only time i ever expect a force to heal, not a heal bot persay but heal more than usual.

[XICougarIX]

I feel that as a force it is my responsibility to heal everybody as much as I can I play as a force not for my own gain but for the gain of the team although I do nuke the enemy when I get a chance, healing my team is first and for most

[Pengfishh]

On 2006-10-29 04:29, ryuartyi wrote:
Personally, I heal when someone's about to screw up my S Rank...



YES! This is why the ranking system is so keen. The system itself IMPLORES you to be a team player or die and fuck yourself AND others out of sunshine.

And we all want a little sunshine.

[Episteme]

I honestly dont expect a force to heal all the time, its good for them to support the group and get alot of action too. Many people probably dont realize that just like on the orignal pso, people played the class just for fighting not for a heal slave. A offensive force is one i will promote, but an ignorant one that complains about buffing before a boss fight or healing someone that doesnt have mates is a crappy one in my eyes.

[Gavin_King]

As a force (and a pretty damn fine one If I do say so myself), here is my opinion on it.

1. It's my job to heal you.... IMO if you're with me, you should never have to use a mate, unless we're in a boss fight or something like that, and all hell is breaking lose and it's just too much. Other than that, you should never have to use a mate.

2. If you're in yellow, whether in the middle of a battle, and even if I haven't "tagged" every enemy for exp, I will heal you.

3. If not in yellow, but you're low, I will usualy wait till after the room is clear, and say "Heal at the door." It is at this time, that everyone on the team who is not 100% health (even if 99%), should wait at the door to get a heal. If you don't, and you miss the heal, and I have to run to you and cast a 2nd heal and wasting PP, you're going to piss me off.

4. Kinda more on 3, but if you run in low on health into a battle, I might wait a little longer to heal you so that I can tag stuff for exp. Unless it's a hard fight, I should have plenty of time to tag stuff, before I switch to my healing staff.... I need exp as well.... So this means, If I don't declare "heal at the door" for whatever reason, I expect you to notify me you are low, instead of just running into battle wounded.

5. Don't blame the healer on the team dieing. Haven't had a problem yet in PSU, more so a WoW thing.... but if the team dies, yes it might be the healers fault, but it's not ALWAYS the healers fault. It's your job to step back from a fight and come to me to get a heal in the middle of a battle... a healer won't always be able to or safe to run in and heal you on the front lines.


Overall though, communcation communcation and communcation. And be nice about it. Before a mission, ask a force how he heals.... or if it becomes a problem, just ask him to do a group heal at the doors after every room... that should solve the majority of the problem as if you need heals mid fight every single room... you might be over your head.

[edit:]
6. Unless it's an emergency, in the middle of a fight, if you need a heal, you should be coming to me... If I see someone fighting their butt's off up front, then all of a sudden, for no reason, come running back to me... I know what they need, they don't even have to ask and it's all good.

7. If loot isn't on "in order," or even "random," I'm not playing with you no matter what. "Give to finder" makes every hunter a ninja looter, and screws rangers and forces completly. It makes the group, as a whole, weaker, because everyone is focused on drops.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gavin_King on 2006-10-29 23:24 ]</font>

[BooChan]

Basically playing a force isn't a picnic. I'm going to be blunt because as of now we got 3 types of Force players.

1). Jerk Force:: Force players who just want to nuke and worry about their own skin. They are not a bad people but they are not playing the class the way it meant to be played. Which is for Support. Support meaning in terms of healing and dropping a huge high damaging spell when the time arises.

2.) Oppurtunistic Force:: Will play any way that benefits them. They will adapt their style of play based on the party they are with.

3.) Caretaker or Sissy Force:: They just like to help people but are pretty useless in a battle. They just like to support and haven't got the necessary nuke spells to use that a party needs to wittle down boss HP as quickly as possible. Forces damage spells pack a mean punch in PSU use them.

So we basically got wannabe Merlins,Fairy Godmothers,evilo sorceress, and warlocks. I luv diversity so each player type brings a distinct personality. As a hunter player I adapt to others style of play. If I'm running with a nuke Force than I'm not gonna go all gung ho with melee. If I'm with a charitable force I will go in and take more risks. When I with a balanced Force I don't have to worry about anything because they know what their role is. As a hunter my role is simple,just beat the enemies brains out. I know my role well. But I'm also a team player.

[Razon]

Well once resta is leveled up to lv30, I will only heal when I need it. I don't bother running to people in high rank games, got my ass owned too many times by the stupid bosses in agata S that way. Sometimes I heal, sometimes I don't. I don't heal to be nice, I'm only doing it to level it and get it over with. Other wise there is no benifit to it, though I do go to someone that has like 1-50hp left and not using an healing item- so that I can prevent a minus in the reward.

[shinryuaki]

there are reasons why forces dont need to heal people becuase their asses. 1. protons are expensive you cant expect them to buy em. Its hard to make money in this game. 2. magic isnt unlimited i used 5 staffs in one level photon all gone, i ask for photon and no one has especially hunters. 3. if your gonna talk about forces think about you hunters first, i get smacked a couple times before you hunters can actually help me while you guys are wondering off somewhere do who know what, overall you guys shouldnt be pissed because we dont have unlimited photon or mp, wen we run we run out, its quite that simple, 4. usually we help more then you hunters

[shinryuaki]

p.s. if anyone needs assistance call me my character is ShinSephirothSen and my gamercard is AznHigh im level 21 or 23 i think cant remember

[Evolution]

Its funny how people think forces are OBGLIGATED to play a certain way. There are so many teams that don't have any forces, you don't see people saying "ah we don't have a force we better just sit here and wait till a force joins". They manage just fine.

A force has the right to play however he wants, if he/she wants to go in and do nothing but deal damage its their right to do so, just because they're a force they're not OBLIGATED to heal you.

[Wallin]

Well I never expected this many responses. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif;

I just want to repeat that this topic is not intended to control Forces in any way into how they should play. They have heals, but they also have nukes - very powerful nukes. That much is obvious.

It's really just trying to figure out whether most people lean toward the 'Priest' path or the 'Mage path, and how hunters need to respond to that accordingly. Heals are something that generally go unspoken: no Force that I've ever met has said upon joining a team, "I refuse to heal you guys, fend for yourselves while I burn things to a crisp."

But in my opinion that would actually be preferable so that I could avoid the "surprise" of whether or not I need to heal myself when the dragon is keeping it's eyes on me.

At this point, I hope in the end this will be a wake-up call for hunters and forces alike.

[Yoruichi]

I don't think forces should heal unless they want to and that opinion is comming from a hunter. I've done S runs with no healing what so ever just DPS. Hardest runs being robo runs, now I admit a force healing and clearing status effects(there are quite a few on that run) is a invaluable asset but in the end thats what consumables are for.

Theres enough consumables on the field itself coupled with the dps playing like they have common sense not to need a force even part time healing. Force healing just let sloppy players play sloppy, most mobs have clear and obvious signs when they are going to do a AoE other than that you should be strafing around the monster to avoid fronter attacks.

In the end a force that heals and nukes is playing thier class to the fullest just like a ranger CCing and dpsing or a hunter dpsnig, intercepting, and taking hits. Not to mention a healing force is saving the team lots of money on consumables for the mere cost of 30ish meseta recharge.

[Guilty-Mirage]

I think this entire thread can be summed up with the following...

To Everyone But Forces:
"If healing items weren't ludicrously abundant in the game to the point where no one should ever run out in any of the current content, Forces might be expected to keep on top of healing. However, since no Hunter or Ranger should ever... ever find themselves out of healing items (whether from not keeping up their stock, or just being a moron and repeatedly failing to dodge a boss's attacks), Forces should in no way ever be expected to heal unless something goes awry. Conversely, a Force that never heals is lame... but there's no hard rule as to how often Resta should be cast. In short, never depend on or expect a Force's healing. They are likely not there to watch six peoples' health meters and waste PP because you didn't learn how to evade each attack of a boss."

To Forces:
"Heal if you have the chance, but if you're spending a significant amount of time feeling that you need to heal... something is wrong. Many things could be wrong, but something is wrong with your party. Maybe some people in it just suck at the game (in various ways.) Maybe you're in an area too tough for your party (though this shouldn't happen if your leader knows anything.) Maybe you have one of those silly folks who think that if a Force is in the party, they don't have to use items anymore. Whatever the reason, you shouldn't be feeling like you "need" to play the healer / babysitter. Leave the party if you do.

But heal now and again. Just enough to let the rest of the party know you care, or if one person was too dumb to keep enough -mates on hand and is about to cost everyone else the S rank. But don't do it so much that they start to take you for granted as a walking AOE Trimate."



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guilty-Mirage on 2006-10-30 00:55 ]</font>

[BooChan]

Its not about obligation. Its about choosing a class and playing it how it was meant to be played. Its not my fault you pick the hardest class to use or your butt hurt because your low on cash to buy more spells or get more photon charges. Every class is struggling online. Money and drops when your are in team games is not plentiful. When I do make a force or switch my class to force I'm going to do my best and making sure the team I'm with is healed and buffed if I have the means to do so. Because thats apart of what a Force does. Whether you get thanked for it or not. I don't see anybody thanking me andsaying "wow that hunter sure beat down that koltova ".Just because you run into some noob idiots playing hunters should not deter you from doing whats best for the team. I don't see my mail man stop doing what hes supposed to do because people forget to put stamps on their mail. Nor do you see a military medic complain when his fellow soldiers are hollering for medical assistance.

[Ninpo_Tamashii]

I think the problems are comming from lower level forces. The resta range isn't high, and your'e concerned with building up techs. Also people are still adjusting to the new style of playing. Getting used to aiming your RA spells, getting used to the strafing, Learning the attack patterns of enemies, takes time. But notice something, most people, Monomates, and DImates will heal well more than half their life bar, usually about the time they should get healed by resta or consumables otherwise. My point? The game was designed for players to not be so force dependant for the first 20-25 levels, but afterwards, I"m seeing Forces being TREMENDOUS contributions, even moreso, due to scaling of technique damage, improvement of Resta Range, and ammount it heals, and with the new spells in the patch comming up, the buffs, and status ailments will make the class play much more like its PSO counter parts did, only there is the introduction of techniques that acutally deal damage.

People are still used to the playstyle of PSO, when episode II Launched on game cube, people tried to call me a newb for melee'ing with the FOmar and dealing damage on par with hunters. Why did they bytch? Cus in Dreamcast version the most 'powerul' Melee Force was the FOmarl, and that was a bit less than impressive. People wern't used to that new concept so they didn't accept it and flame wars went on for months, until people finally 'caught it' and FOmars became a common sight, becuse their ablity to melee and still support their team became reknown.

Its the same sort of situation here, Once people get used to the game, and when Forces have goten their techs at least in the level 11+ range, The ability for a Force to do what's expected of us will become easier, and people will recive what they have been accustomed to form PSO, to a degree. Just understand the biggest diffrence is Techniques that deal damage acutally have meaning now. They aren't novelty, they have function, work on more types of enemies, and have a greater chance to apply status ailments. In so many situations now Online its sometimes better to toss out a tech or two to drop a couple enemies, than to heal you and keep that mob alive so he can undo what the resta did. My time and PP was spent better killing the monster, than healing you.

Killing mobs faster, means less damage taken as a group, ,which means less Resta. This method wasn't *as* viable in PSO, but it is now in PSU. It means a diffrent style of play which people need to get used to.

Mah 10 cents.

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-10-29 23:37, shinryuaki wrote:
2. magic isnt unlimited i used 5 staffs in one level photon all gone, i ask for photon and no one has especially hunters.


Is this the norm on PSU? =/ With all of the groups I played with, it was pretty much customary to ask the FO if they needed extra fluids (photon charges).


On 2006-10-29 23:22, BooChan wrote:
...as of now we got 3 types of Force players.

1). Jerk Force::

2.) Oppurtunistic Force::

3.) Caretaker or Sissy Force::



Maybe its just me, but it seems like if you fall into category 1 or 3, you're sort of missing out on half of your class. An adept force should be able to offer top notch support and burn mobs to a crisp. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif mmm... crispy mobs.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-10-30 09:13 ]</font>

[ellievyle]

Here's something to consider:

I was under the assumption that each class had a particular job to do, but after talking with my boyfriend, I believe I'm a little more enlightened.

Each class (Hunter, Ranger, Force) can be played in to two separate ways: offensively (group) and defensively (solo).

To play offensively, Hunters get in the enemy's face and deal as much damage as they can as quick as they can. Rangers nail down one enemy at a time at close range (which keeps the enemy in place so it's easier for Forces and Hunters to hit. awesome!). And Forces continue to barge with lower level elemental spells, and cast Resta frequently to cure themselves and their teammates who are also in their close proximity. This can work very well, since Hunters can do what they do best, Rangers can keep an enemy constantly busy so Forces and Hunters can kill them off, and Forces can keep attacking for the entire length of a battle. Sure you use consumables frequently, but you'll also pick up more items.

To play defensively, Hunters can dodge and duck, Rangers can peg enemies and deliver status ailments, and Forces can use higher level spells less frequently and perhaps cure once a room. Playing defensively conserves consumables, but you're less likely to pick up items.

With cheap consumables (plus boards), healing really isn't an issue anymore.

Basically, Hunters shouldn't expect to be cured, and shouldn't tell Forces how to play, since Forces can be played offensively and defensively. Likewise, Forces shouldn't expect Hunters to dodge and duck, since Hunters can be play off. and def. too. And Rangers...why are you guys always standing on the sidelines...you can be a great help in the midst of battle too!

Communication is key if you're in a team. You HAVE to match your fighting style with those around you. If a Hunter/Ranger decides he's going in for the kill, and the Force decides they're going to cure that Hunter/Ranger no matter what, the enemy dies. If a Force decides they're gonna nuke the hell outta the boss, and the Hunter/Ranger stays away so not to waste PP on their cure, the enemy dies. If a Ranger decides they're gonna pelt an enemy and keep it busy, the Hunter/Force can kill it quicker. And if the Ranger decides to stay back and cause the enemy all sort of status ailments, the Hunter/Force can kill it quicker. If everyone guns it, and cures themselves, its expensive but quick, but more drawn out if everyone is defensive. It works if you match it up.

This is also why I now don't believe in items being set for random. Those taking the most damage/in the most danger should get the most items. And as I just stated, all classes can be in where the action is, and play melee style. You just have to play it smart.

The only thing that I personally don't see any benefit to is when a Force will spam their spells until their out and wait for the next room. This doesn't help the team (we're out one whole person doing damage/keeping enemies busy to open up opportunities to hit them, and any emergency cures aren't there) and it doesn't help the force (they're forfeiting any extra experience from getting the last hit on an enemy and getting any items by waiting at the door). I feel it's very important for everyone to measure out their attacks so they're able to fight the entire length of the match.

[Carlo210]

""This is also why I now don't believe in items being set for random. Those taking the most damage/in the most danger should get the most items. And as I just stated, all classes can be in where the action is, and play melee style. You just have to play it smart. ""
This clued me into your sarcasm. That has to be the dumbest thing I've seen. A force and Ranger do a lot of damage from afar - but they are not eligible for drops? Please. -.-
Hunters ARE in the midst of the battle,b ut they are also MEANT to be. They have high defense and HP. It's not like your throwing a ranger in the midst. I don't know how you can congratulate a hunter because he gets hit - they're supposed to be able to take numerous hits - that's their job - to be on the frontlines.
Basically, you're saying melee should get all the spoils just because they are taking hits that tickle them?

[Ryoga4523]

I agree with what you guys are saying about letting the force play how he/she wants to.... but If they do not heal when it is needed, regardless of if they tell you to do it or not. I am a force, and I was playing De Ragan C rank, and It was me (lvl 15) a hunter (lvl 11) and another hunter (lvl17) I am not going to give their names because I do not want other ppl to not group with them for this reason. Well I expected the lvl 11 hunter to probably die if I did not heal him, and he almost did. What PISSED me off was when the lvl 17 hunter was make NOOB mistakes like trying to melee the dragons ankles while he is walking. I do not know if that guys mic was working, but I was asking him to come over to me if he needed healing. The lvl 11 hunter had his mic on, and it was working properly, and we communicated perfectly. With my foie doing 100+ on De Ragan, I was expecting to be done with him really fast, but the dumb lvl 17 hunter not only died, but kept falling for the same thing the dragon threw at him. So I was angry that we got an A rank cause that tard died, and I was mad because it took too long. I could have solo'd him faster, but instead I was playing Captain Heal running my but off trying to get to the guy, because he was making no effort to run torwards me. >_< sorry about the rant.

Some valuable things to do to make nice with Forces is to...

1) If you need to be healed (life in the yellow) run torwards the force

2) Let the force get a chance to hit everything in the group, before all the Hunters and Rangers stab, shoot, blast, impale, shank, and anything else they can do with their weapons. I hate it when I go to heal someone, and I cast a spell right when the mob(s) dies.

[ellievyle]

Hi Carlo,

I'm sorry, I wasn't being sarcastic, and I'm not ignorant to the fact that Rangers do not have the high defense that Hunters do. Instead, let me pose this to you: a Ranger, being in the mob, hitting enemies from behind to guanantee 100% accuracy with their guns, which do more than the guns that Hunters are allowed to use. Then, the enemy turns around, the Ranger (with their higher evasion) strayfs to get behind them again. A close combat Ranger will be able to hold an enemy long enough for a Hunter to start their combo, which, in turn will hold an enemy long enough for the Ranger to start their shot again. Close combat range only works with a team member, and I do believe Rangers can play this way. But keep in mind that a Ranger's bumrush is a Hunter's defensive play. A Hunter will take/block the hit and continue attacking. I don't advice a Ranger or Force to do this at all.

Edit: And, obviously, close combat should only be done by a higher leveled character, Hunter or not.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ellievyle on 2006-10-30 10:09 ]</font>

[chibiLegolas]

I personally think that it's the OTHER's fault for not asking what type of force the person is when you first meet them. In PSO/PSU, healers and nukers are not defined. So it's your responsibiltiy to ask how frequent the forces are with healing and their range with resta.
Don't assume anything and ask outright in the beginning to avoid confusion.

I've always played the battle cleric type roles in all games and it bothers me when a team mate automatically assumes that I'm their personal resta machine at all times. Plus assumes it's my role for me to meet up with THEM in battle. I'm here to game and have fun too. Not to sit back and heal 24/7 (unless the stage is really challenging or at a boss fight).

But of course, if I notice someone's in the yellow and upclose to enemies, I really would appreciate it if they'd pull back some so we could meet half way together to get into my resta range. But like others have said, I maybe be too distracted with what I'm engaged with that I might not notice everyone else's HP at the moment. So please shout out/pull back/ or hug me to catch my attention to avoid death.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif'

True, this is all about teamwork and I don't want anyone to die to bring down our ranking. But at the same time, not every force is built up to be a pure healer and all teammates should change a bit to accomodate or anicipate what we each have to offer in the battle field.

[Diablohead]

Though every force plays differently and you can't always blame a force when you die because of stupidity, I voted for "expected".

I'm planning to make a support character myself and if anything like pso (I was a ranger) i'll use resta whenever the need, for me and my partners.

[HiKeRI]

A real skilled player don't need help on healing, you don't just jump in the crew and spam PA's and get wacked, you do a stratergy and evade all posible hit's you get to atleast support the Force so they don't waste there healing spell on you for being careless on your own actions, the healing would be only necesary when it needs not when everytime you get hit or think that you'll die, but only when its truly usefull to use, Force needs fun aswell even on the battlefield.

[Gavin_King]

On 2006-10-30 08:57, Pure-chan wrote:

On 2006-10-29 23:37, shinryuaki wrote:
2. magic isnt unlimited i used 5 staffs in one level photon all gone, i ask for photon and no one has especially hunters.


Is this the norm on PSU? =/ With all of the groups I played with, it was pretty much customary to ask the FO if they needed extra fluids (photon charges).



I've never asked or used a photon charges. I have 5 staffs/wands (I'm a level 14 force now), and I can usually make it until a PP Charge station with that many weapons. If I can't, I can make it enough to get to a block crystal and warp back town to quick recharge my weapons. With Photon charges costing 500 and only recharging one weapon, it doesn't make any sense to use them until higher levels where maybe more money is being dropped (or in a desperate boss fight).

[Jasam]

On 2006-10-30 10:59, HiKeRI wrote:
A real skilled player don't need help on healing, you don't just jump in the crew and spam PA's and get wacked, you do a stratergy and evade all posible hit's you get to atleast support the Force so they don't waste there healing spell on you for being careless on your own actions, the healing would be only necesary when it needs not when everytime you get hit or think that you'll die, but only when its truly usefull to use, Force needs fun aswell even on the battlefield.



Then again, You fail to consider that if you are not having to play over conservitivly, knowing that there is a force that will heal you (at least between rooms or occassionly, not obsesivly), you can afford to take some damage and kill the mob a lot faster.

My opinion, is that if the force refuses to heal outright, they may as well be kicked and you get anouther hunter/ranger, they will do exactly the same in terms of damage in the long run.

Forces SHOULD heal, if a team member comes to them with low hp, during bosses if the player is with safe range, and possably between rooms if a lot of the group is damaged.
They SHOULD NOT have to go into the midst of battle/chase people to heal, do nothing but heal, get blamed for dieing when you have mates.

Making exceptions is up to the force, extra is up to the force, but NOT healing is just plain stupid, just as not using mates is as well.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-10-29 10:33, Carlo210 wrote:
It's funny because a force isn't required for a party, but when a force IS in a party, people act as if they're gonna die if the force doesn't be a white mage.



LOL. So true. A force makes the game easier. So for some ppl that equates to being sloppy?

Still, I stand by my original statement and team mates should not assume anything with a force since there are different play styles that go with that perticular class. Just ask about their play style first to avoid any confusion.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-10-29 23:22, BooChan wrote:
Basically playing a force isn't a picnic. I'm going to be blunt because as of now we got 3 types of Force players.

1). Jerk Force:: Force players who just want to nuke and worry about their own skin. They are not a bad people but they are not playing the class the way it meant to be played. Which is for Support. Support meaning in terms of healing and dropping a huge high damaging spell when the time arises.



I totally disagree with this statement. In PSU, I don't believe that a force's role is meant solely to be made for support. They've made it so that you must purchase your techs wisely now by devoting the necessary $ for the initial cost. Then the enormous time needed to level EACH tech up. And of course the cap of techs we can learn, period. (which is 36 I believe? Including PA's 'n such). You can't learn all the techs that are out there anymore, no?
And if a force chooses to not learn 'n level up any of the support techs, I'm not blaming them. That's their play style and they're entitled to do so.

I personally can't find any fun in playing a nuker, but they can certainly do so and it's not going against the "force's" role IMO.

Besides, the max party's players is now 6 instead of 4, leaving plently of room for a nuker and a healer into the group.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2006-10-30 13:27 ]</font>

[Ninpo_Tamashii]

On 2006-10-30 11:29, Jasam wrote:

Making exceptions is up to the force, extra is up to the force, but NOT healing is just plain stupid, just as not using mates is as well.



Quoted for Thought.

[Niki]

My brother plays a Force, and he plays it damn well. He's always on top of healing, and he's generally laying waste to the mobs.

Forces who can't do both should consider playing Hunters.

[Wickerman]

I think everybody in this thread has missed an important point...

FORCES ARE NOT WHITE MAGES...
THIS IS NOT FFXI...
THIS IS NOT WOW...

Stop trying to play like it is!

[Niki]

On 2006-10-30 13:41, Wickerman wrote:
I think everybody in this thread has missed an important point...

FORCES ARE NOT WHITE MAGES...
THIS IS NOT FFXI...
THIS IS NOT WOW...

Stop trying to play like it is!

I've never played either of those. True, it is not solely their responsibility to keep you alive, but it's just more economical if the Force acts as a group healer. Star Atomizers are expensive. A few PP out of 1 of 6 carried Rods/Wands is much less so. If S-Ranks are not your thing, by all means, play your Force however you like.

BTW, people didn't miss the point, they just don't agree with it.

[Wickerman]

On 2006-10-30 13:48, Niki wrote:

On 2006-10-30 13:41, Wickerman wrote:
I think everybody in this thread has missed an important point...

FORCES ARE NOT WHITE MAGES...
THIS IS NOT FFXI...
THIS IS NOT WOW...

Stop trying to play like it is!

I've never played either of those. True, it is not solely their responsibility to keep you alive, but it's just more economical if the Force acts as a group healer. Star Atomizers are expensive. A few PP out of 1 of 6 carried Rods/Wands is much less so. If S-Ranks are not your thing, by all means, play your Force however you like.

BTW, people didn't miss the point, they just don't agree with it.



Haha, OUCH!

So now you're saying I can't get S-Rank if I don't heal people. Rwaaarrrr, hsss hsss, down kitty!

You are a snob.

[Ninpo_Tamashii]

@Niki

Not agree'ing, and not Understanding are two totally diffrent things. I'm begenning to think you fall in the latter category among several others.

Play FFXI or WoW and you will see where he is comming from with that. Oh, and for the record, Being Team Leader doesn't mean being Team babysitter, and an excuse for Everybody else (This generally applying to hunters.) to do absolutely jack shyt as far as their own well being is concerned.

Mah 10 Cents.

[Wallin]

Personally, I don't agree that mates are easy to come by, nor do I think they're cheap to make.

You can make them with synthesis materials, but I haven't come across any Sweet Berry in Parum to make them, and that's the only place I hunt right now.

Also, if you're fighting over boxes with five other people, your chances of getting a healing item either by grabbing them or by loot rotation compared to all the other items that drop is pretty slim.

I'm level 23 now and I have over 650 HP. That's a huge load of monomates to use. And dimates are even rarer, and more expensive. Resta, however, is not a set number, it's power is based on your level.

I have never had more than 10 dimates in my inventory at once, I very seldom have 20 monomates, I rarely even have 10 because I go through them so fast with Forces not healing. If I'm going through Da Ragan B, I'm bound to get hit, multiple times. If I have to use a monomate every time I get hit because those Del Saber clone freaks attack for 100-200 damage and the dragon does whatever it feels like and I'm not getting any monomates or dimates when they drop, what am I supposed to do?

So the things that spurred my curiosity in this topic is that I was fighting the dragon at probably level 15 or so. The dragon was up in the air, and hit me with fire, so I'm getting low and I'm taking burn damage, and I tried to heal as fast as I could and used a monomate since that was what was already selected on my shortcut bar and because the Force was silently refusing healing anyone. Then the dragon dives in and crushes me while I'm still trying to recover from fire stunlock, and because I wasn't fully healed, I died. And the force started $#%$@ing at me for the next hour where ever we went saying how I was going to die and how I needed Scape Dolls. I had to listen to his crap when I couldn't do anything about it, and he couldn't give me the time of day for ONE heal. So I was curious if all Forces are like that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2006-10-30 14:20 ]</font>

[Bahamut89]

I'd heal. Well, I do heal. Simply because I can, and 30 PP costs less than a dimate. But only if you're reasonably close to me. If you keep fighting on the other side of the map, don't expect me to drop everything and run towards you. If you run towards me at 80+%, I'm more than happy to heal you for no particular reason. It's all about convenience.

[Ninpo_Tamashii]

Alright, Lets go:

1.


On 2006-10-30 14:18, Wallin wrote:
Personally, I don't agree that mates are easy to come by, nor do I think they're cheap to make.

You can make them with synthesis materials, but I haven't come across any Sweet Berry in Parum to make them, and that's the only place I hunt right now.

Also, if you're fighting over boxes with five other people, your chances of getting a healing item either by grabbing them or by loot rotation compared to all the other items that drop is pretty slim.



You can set the items to be rotated in order so nobody is dominating the items/meseta. That's a feature I deem as fairness due to the differing fighting styles of each class. Each one puts in equal work, just being in the melee cross-fire doesn't give you more precidence to getting an item over another person. This is an *OPTION* however, so if you find that to be a problem, you always have that *OPTION*.

2.


I'm level 23 now and I have over 650 HP. That's a huge load of monomates to use. And dimates are even rarer, and more expensive. Resta, however, is not a set number, it's power is based on your level.



Alright, i'm assuming you are making refrence to the fact that you belive that mates are harder to find/obtain. Not only that, you feel as tho with your 650 Hp at level 23, it heals much less than you find nessary.

I made a quote in my first post in this thread a while back hinting to the fact that at later levels The items are very strong from level 1-15ish, and by level 20 the game make sa turn around. This is in place to be a somewhat of a buffer whilst forces are still green, and resta is still low in range, and the impact of the force is not as great, UNTIL the level you are around at.

My Point? Yeah, in your 20's depending SOELY On items like that is going to be rather difficult, This is where however a FOrce is supposed to have been more accomplished and is now stepping up to the plate. Which will lead me to my next point.

3.


The dragon was up in the air, and hit me with fire, so I'm getting low and I'm taking burn damage, and I tried to heal as fast as I could and used a monomate since that was what was already selected on my shortcut bar and because the Force was silently refusing healing anyone. Then the dragon dives in and crushes me while I'm still trying to recover from fire stunlock, and because I wasn't fully healed, I died.



The situation could place both of you at fault, but in technicality the force should have (espeically if you were NOT the only one taking heavy damage like that constantly.) Held back on offense a bit and tried to get at maximium resta range to help out the other party members.

However if you are the only one taking heavy damage like that..perhaps you should re-evaluate your playing tactics, as apparently there would be a flaw in that.

And now finally,

4.


I had to listen to his crap when I couldn't do anything about it, and he couldn't give me the time of day for ONE heal. So I was curious if all Forces are like that.



To awnser your question as simple as possible, No, not all are like that. However What you are witnessing is an extreame. Another person posted this basic fact which stands very true to all players. You are an idiot who needs to stop playing if you *NEVER* Heal, and you are a force, just absolutely NEVER. And you are *JUST AS BAD* if you are a hunter, and *NEVER* absolutely *NEVER* use any healing items.

You didn't do anything wrong, you likely had a force that falls into that group of individuals who *NEVER* Heal. They are as plentyful as individuals who *NEVER* Use healing items.

You are in that rare minority, just keep partying and find those forces who do know how to realistically heal, and fulfil their other damage/support options to help push the team to S-rank.

Mah 10 Cents.

[hareofthedog]

All I can say is I love the support Force. I heal all the time in the hopes of lvling my resta. I carry about 4 of those 900 pp rods with heal... my issue is that I lose out big time on exp and for some reason the rest of the party never feels I deserve any of the rewards. So I heal and help get that S... and I walk out with the award money and thats about it. Lame.

[The_Gio]

well i just ask,usually some what like,can u heal me? and usually the person is nice enough to keep on healing me,so i am saying we should ask but not every single time we heal

[Wallin]

On 2006-10-30 14:46, Ninpo_Tamashii wrote:
You can set the items to be rotated in order so nobody is dominating the items/meseta. That's a feature I deem as fairness due to the differing fighting styles of each class. Each one puts in equal work, just being in the melee cross-fire doesn't give you more precidence to getting an item over another person. This is an *OPTION* however, so if you find that to be a problem, you always have that *OPTION*.


Ah, no, my point was not that it's not fair by any means. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif As I have a Force, I understand full well that item grabbing is painful and that if meseta were not distributed in a rotation that Forces would quickly go broke.

My point was that the order makes obtaining a particular item unreliable. Let's say a monomate drops. The first person on the team gets it. Then you get three random items, then another one drops, so the fifth person gets it. More random items drop, person two gets a monomate, more items, then person five another one. Meanwhile the third, fourth, and sixth team members are still waiting for one. And let's say the level only drops 5 of them, even 6 - then someone doesn't get one, and by that point in time one person has probably even used one.

Unless the loot "order" keeps track of who gets what item so that no one gets the same thing twice before someone else does, then you may often get screwed on your healing supply. So I'm not sure why people think I should have 20 monomates, dimates, and trimates on me at all times.

If you could go to your room to access your storage or synthesis without leaving your group, then I could understand having a constant supply (even though the storage also maxes the capacity at 20 for each). But that's unfortunately not how it works.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2006-10-30 15:18 ]</font>

[MaKaVeLi_X]

For those Who Dont like spending alot of money on Mates, Do some Solo Linear Line runs, yeah you wont get alot of exp, but youll get some synth items and Youll probly get 5 dimates and at least 5 monomates.

[lostinseganet]

When i play phantasy star I have a ball. I dont spend my time micromanageing other peoples fun. If you dont play like your hp matters dont expect others to waist time and energy to give you hp when you find out it matters. Dispite all the EXPECTATIONS on healing forces noo one chips in to pay for it. Money to a force is not plentyful...now if people chiped in then that would be a different story.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Smart forces heal when they can because its one of the hardest techs to train

[Shanira]

Am I the only one who, as a non forcer, thinks that if a hunter takes the amount of damage to make a force spend a significant amount of their time healing them, that the hunter in question is probably doing something wrong?

Just because there's someone who can heal you doesn't mean you should slack off. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Niki]

On 2006-10-30 14:01, Ninpo_Tamashii wrote:
Play FFXI or WoW and you will see where he is comming from with that.
I'll take a pass on the shitty games. Which may make your point about me not understanding Wickerman's motivation all the more valid.


On 2006-10-30 14:01, Ninpo_Tamashii wrote:
Oh, and for the record, Being Team Leader doesn't mean being Team babysitter, and an excuse for Everybody else (This generally applying to hunters.) to do absolutely jack shyt as far as their own well being is concerned.
This is true! Hunters need to learn to dodge and cover their own asses with 'mates. As I said, Forces are not solely responsible for healing.


On 2006-10-30 14:00, Wickerman wrote:
You are a snob.
On that I agree with you. It should be noted that I was not trying to accuse you directly of bad play, but make a point. To sum up my position: a Force who is not willing to act as a healer is not worth adding to the party, IMO.

[HiKeRI]

On 2006-10-30 11:29, Jasam wrote:

On 2006-10-30 10:59, HiKeRI wrote:
A real skilled player don't need help on healing, you don't just jump in the crew and spam PA's and get wacked, you do a stratergy and evade all posible hit's you get to atleast support the Force so they don't waste there healing spell on you for being careless on your own actions, the healing would be only necesary when it needs not when everytime you get hit or think that you'll die, but only when its truly usefull to use, Force needs fun aswell even on the battlefield.



Then again, You fail to consider that if you are not having to play over conservitivly, knowing that there is a force that will heal you (at least between rooms or occassionly, not obsesivly), you can afford to take some damage and kill the mob a lot faster.

My opinion, is that if the force refuses to heal outright, they may as well be kicked and you get anouther hunter/ranger, they will do exactly the same in terms of damage in the long run.

Forces SHOULD heal, if a team member comes to them with low hp, during bosses if the player is with safe range, and possably between rooms if a lot of the group is damaged.
They SHOULD NOT have to go into the midst of battle/chase people to heal, do nothing but heal, get blamed for dieing when you have mates.

Making exceptions is up to the force, extra is up to the force, but NOT healing is just plain stupid, just as not using mates is as well.


Read well after making a statement my friend, a Force can't just go babysitting careless players(Can't just go in a party to just heal, where's the fun of that?), yes a point is to kill an enemy faster, but also in a smart way, if you don't do it right, you'll end up with a force with no nukes nor healing to help anyone on the end and everyone useless trying to beat the big guy at the end, Forces are not White Mages or Black Mages, but both, they have long range nukes(Not all of them are outthere yet eh? It could get stronger than the melee's weapon damage since they need to work on the 3-way phase-Heal, Nuke overall support)and can deal that dmg that everyone could use on times of need aswell.

[Wheatpenny]

I think forces should be on top of healing but I don't ever harp on them for not doing it.All I can say is after being a hunter, for those about to resta,I salute you!

[Yoruichi]

If forces should be on top of healing, hunters and rangers should be on top of not getting hit...at all. As for Niki, your discredited due to the fact force do great tech damage single and AoE.

Healing and nuking makes you a great force but isn't necessary just like meleeing and not getting hit and a hunter.

[Wallin]

On 2006-10-31 15:09, Yoruichi wrote:
If forces should be on top of healing, hunters and rangers should be on top of not getting hit...at all. As for Niki, your discredited due to the fact force do great tech damage single and AoE.

Healing and nuking makes you a great force but isn't necessary just like meleeing and not getting hit and a hunter.



I agree to some point. There are monsters though that you really just can't avoid getting hit by, particularly ones that are high enough in level that you can no longer stunlock them. Moreso those freaking worms on Neudaiz that attack you by spinning around.

The only real solution to not getting hit is to be a Force, be a Ranger, or constrict yourself to a B grade Handgun.

And also, no offense, but in most cases, if Hunters weren't there to keep the monsters occupied, Forces wouldn't be able to cast, especially not from a distance, without being hit first. It's easy for a Force to say, "I refuse to heal, now let me do massive damage on these with my spells that require careful aim and casting time if I use a staff, while you guys try to stunlock the enemy with up close distractions." This is a two-way street we're talking about, if Forces aren't grateful for Hunters, why should Hunters be grateful for Forces?

[smokie]

If you guys would quit running long enough for me to get close to you, I would heal you every time. I like practicing that technic.

[Niki]

On 2006-10-31 15:09, Yoruichi wrote:
As for Niki, your discredited due to the fact force do great tech damage single and AoE.

Not sure if I'm following your logic here...did I say something about Forces not doing spectacular damage? I thought I was posting an opinion in a thread about Forces played as healers. Hm...


On 2006-10-31 15:26, Wallin wrote:
This is a two-way street we're talking about...
QFT.

[Erasure25]

I play a ranger and I always keep a supply of mates on me from Linear line runs. I have my box, PM and another character stacked with mates so I can pull em out when needed. That way, if, say, a hunter and I have yellow HP, I know to use a mate if I'm not close by since the hunter could use a resta more than I. This is true esp in boss fights where rangers are often spaced far apart from others.

BUT, I think since Forces have resta, they should use it. It's like saying, well a Ranger has SEs, but they don't need to use them. Of course they do. I try not to get hit cuz I know Forces need to deal damage to get exp, but if I'm yellow/red, then I think a Force should heal if nearby. Hunters I'm sure try not to get hit, but it's kinda in their nature to be up in the mobs' faces so getting hit is inevitable.

And yes, it's a three-way street. If I see mobs crowding a HU or FO, I try to stop what I'm doing and run and shoot at those mobs to make em flinch and put on SEs. Same if I see a mob going into casting mode behind someone's back.

Kinda reminds me of the whole RDM thing in FFXI. Some (not all) RDMs hate to heal... but they need to get over it and do it, since they have that ability.

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-10-31 13:44, Niki wrote:
a Force who is not willing to act as a healer is not worth adding to the party, IMO.



That was what I was refering to Niki, mabey it was taken out of context

[ChocoboChad]

As a force myself, I assume the role of support as needed.

[Vendaeri]

As a hunter, I feel that if I stand next to a force and have low life, it should be a fair sign that I need a heal.

However, I understand that not every force is trying to be a healer, so I don't mind asking for heal every now and then.

Of course, during boss fights, it should be obvious, that if you can heal, you should be trying to keep your party alive. After all you're with them because you can't do it on your own.

[Sinue_v2]

As a FO, I lean much farther to the support side than the nuke side. Expecially in PSU where deaths in the party have a negetive impact on everyone.

In PSO I played a melee FOnewearl - because being right in the thick of combat with the HUs made it easier to tag all enemies, keep all members healed/buffed, and debuff all enemies. I generally start healing when ANYONE falls below 75% health.

I've currently got a "FOcaseal" named Arisa, who uses two Gun/Wand combos. The gun is to tag enemies, and then I focus on support. Eventually I'll turn her into a FO/RA.

[BooChan]

On 2006-10-30 12:40, chibiLegolas wrote:

On 2006-10-29 23:22, BooChan wrote:
Basically playing a force isn't a picnic. I'm going to be blunt because as of now we got 3 types of Force players.

1). Jerk Force:: Force players who just want to nuke and worry about their own skin. They are not a bad people but they are not playing the class the way it meant to be played. Which is for Support. Support meaning in terms of healing and dropping a huge high damaging spell when the time arises.



I totally disagree with this statement. In PSU, I don't believe that a force's role is meant solely to be made for support. They've made it so that you must purchase your techs wisely now by devoting the necessary $ for the initial cost. Then the enormous time needed to level EACH tech up. And of course the cap of techs we can learn, period. (which is 36 I believe? Including PA's 'n such). You can't learn all the techs that are out there anymore, no?
And if a force chooses to not learn 'n level up any of the support techs, I'm not blaming them. That's their play style and they're entitled to do so.

I personally can't find any fun in playing a nuker, but they can certainly do so and it's not going against the "force's" role IMO.

Besides, the max party's players is now 6 instead of 4, leaving plently of room for a nuker and a healer into the group.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2006-10-30 13:27 ]</font>



True. But then again if Jerk force has healing spell and only uses for himself. Then whats the point of even buying the spell and leveling it up? I'm all for freedom of choice but when you get older you get a job and you have responsibilities. True this is only a game but it requires team work to get the best out of it when playing in groups. Instead of being frutrated with a crappy group of players either leave the party or help them out. So far I haven't ran across any Jerk Forces. Most of the few I've partied with knew their role and played it well. They healed when needed and cleared the room when everyone got their hits in. Nobody asked them to heal they just did it.

[Buddant]

On 2006-10-30 12:40, chibiLegolas wrote:
And of course the cap of techs we can learn, period. (which is 36 I believe? Including PA's 'n such). You can't learn all the techs that are out there anymore, no?


Please say it ain't so. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

[Iownmyownsoul]

In my opion as a person who plays caster classes in lots of games, i say let the force choose what they do not tell them they have to heal. If they are only allowed to heal then how will they get exp from the mission. Also if they only heal all they can get is C rank due to not hitting any monsters. So in the end all they will get out of the mission is items and leveled up healing spell.
I play a warlock in WOW and im asked to do stuff like not attack or have my pet do this. BUt I don't have to listen to those people so I do what I think is best to do. Even though it might get me kicked. So if you want forces to only heal then kick them and heal yourself.

































So in other words you idiots out there who only want forces to heal Should just give up on that and play another game.

[Xiber]

Here is where I stand. I am a 47 RAcast right now in PSU. In PSO, I played it all, from Humar to FOnewearl.
Allow me to add my two cents in:

On 2006-10-28 19:34, Wallin wrote:
Most of the time I only see Forces heal if they get themselves hurt. Sometimes I could run around for a good three minutes with half health, or even with my health in the yellow zone, and they still don't heal. We'll start a fight, I'll take several hits in a row, I'll run to the side, the battle will finish, and they'll run off into the next room while I sit there bleeding all over the floor.

I would say something, but it feels like if they don't do it themselves it's like they think it's a bother, and I don't want to argue with them by justifying the cost of it. I wonder if they're just oblivious or just don't care, which is why I'm asking about this.


USE MATES; carry the max amount and ration them through a mission.

On 2006-10-29 03:52, Mikaga wrote:

It works both ways, really. If the Hunters aren't even *trying* to be party players, why should the Forces be expected to cater to their lousy abilities?



Agreed. PSU is ment for the formation of parties and team cooperation to complete sed missions. if a particular player wants to run in guns blazing and kill everything before anyone else hasa chance to hit something/anything, why is there a party to begin with. The rest of the party should consider booting that player.

On 2006-10-29 08:26, Shrevn wrote:

On 2006-10-29 08:20, DMG wrote:
Loot can be set in order or random now. I won't even join FFA games anymore.



apparently not meseta which is still broken. If they would just SIMPLY bother to see warcraft anyone who picks up money is split into however many ppl are in ur group makes it so much fair and easier http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


No, its works, it doesnt split up meseta, the first drop of it goes to the first person, so if 600 drops, someone just got very lucky to have that spot in the party.

On 2006-10-29 23:46, Evolution wrote:
Its funny how people think forces are OBGLIGATED to play a certain way. There are so many teams that don't have any forces, you don't see people saying "ah we don't have a force we better just sit here and wait till a force joins". They manage just fine.

A force has the right to play however he wants, if he/she wants to go in and do nothing but deal damage its their right to do so, just because they're a force they're not OBLIGATED to heal you.


([ctrl]This is turning out to be a fairly long post)
That was the problem with WoW in some cases; lets try to not make the same misake. LET PEOPLE PLAY THEY WAY THEY WANT. Take care of yourself, if you want the force to play support rethink the meaning of the word. The difference between support and babysitting is that with support the players also try to help themselves as well as eachother.

On 2006-10-30 13:41, Wickerman wrote:
I think everybody in this thread has missed an important point...

FORCES ARE NOT WHITE MAGES...
THIS IS NOT FFXI...
THIS IS NOT WOW...

Stop trying to play like it is!


Support for the previous quote.

Okay, I hope that this thread has made a difference.

[Oxidation]

It honestly is not a problem at my lvl, 46 Fo when i think my resta is like 15 or something. If you have trouble tagging mobs u arent playing force correctly. I care a minimum 3 haji rods, and a backup cane along with a bow. You should be spamming ra spells at least until they give us more spells and heal when u feel it is necessary.

There is a reason its called the advanced class, you need to watch more things at once and be on your toes. Your resta or reverser could mean the difference between a close save or an A rank or worse.

If you can't handle the burden of keeping people alive then switch to a different class or people will never contact you for parties in the future.

[Neith]

If my Hunter is on 1/3 or less HP, I wouldn't mind a Resta or two from a Force. But, I don't mind using a Mate if I need to.

I don't think Forces should be a HU's personal resta slave though, as a lot of people seem to think. HU's should have around 60 Mates anyway (20 Mono, 20 Di, 20 Tri, plus Star Atomizers), and with that lot, they shouldn't rely solely on a FO.

It is appreciated if a FO does use Resta/Reverser when people are in danger, but they don't need to spam it everytime someone grazes a knee.

[Merumeru]

XD im too lazy to copypasta my emotions from the other similar threads, but my basic opinion is just stop telling people how to play because they're not going to change because of what you think they should be doing XD how would you hunters feel if everytime i saw you not using a spear or rangers not using twin handguns OR you PAlevelers who use 1*/2* weapons to just raise your PAS while doing damage barely hitting the 20s, ill kick you out of my party or whine at you because you're 'not using your class to its full potential' XP its ridiculous



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Merumeru on 2006-11-30 07:21 ]</font>

[Genobee]

Yea um guys guess what MATES AN"T CHEAP AND MATES CAN"T HEAL A HUNTER EFECTILY PAST LVL 30! seeing as how it takes a stack of Monomates to heal me to full, or 3 diamtes to heal me to full and Trimated hardly drop and are expensive as hell and seeing as how monsters in A rank and S rank can bring you down to 100 health or death in 1 to 2 hits, it's ovious mates are not ment to be a hunters main source of healing. Forces are ment to heal in groups it's as simple as that. They diddn't give you resta just for shits and giggles. Your a support class, healing should be your first priority then nuking. How is it fair to hunters to spend 4 times the actual pay out of the quest just to finish it? Not to mention probly run out of mates by block 2 in some missions. IF you want to play how you wanna play then solo, if you wanna group then you play how a group wants you to play. It's simple as that, whats the point of being in a group if your useless to it.

[Sychosis]

Wow, zombie topic!

[LordHakutsuru]

well IMO, during blocks there's no reason for a FO not to use Resta on teammates, but during bosses, I say Nuke > Healing.

[happy_cricket]

I think FO's (and both of my characters are FO's) should be on top of it with the healing. However, here is what makes me a cranky force:

Rangers who attack from point blank, every time, and are turning yellow 5 times per run. YOU ARE A RANGED ATTACKER YOU MORON.

Hunters who will litterally RUN FROM YOU while you are trying to heal them. DO you run from a trimate? NO. SO why the hell are you running from me?

Also, I refuse to let my self get curbstomped by a boss by having to dart in and out of it's legs to heal the hunters. You know you are in the yellow. You know who has been healing you all the way up until now. You know I don't have the same amount of HP you have. SO please tell me why *I* should be the who gets kicked out of the game for dying because I have to chase your ass into the kill zone trying to heal you while you RUN FROM ME??????????

Oh... erm... sorry about the outburst.

[Ronzeru]

You're a force. You should always be positioned enough to be able to heal most people. It ain't that hard. If a Hunter strays away from the group, then he should be getting his ass back.

[happy_cricket]

I am always positioned to heal *most* people. I am complaining about the ones who run from me.

[ThEoRy]

As a long time expert force I can tell you that I will most gladly heal you as soon as you lose 1/3 to 1/2 hp. Reverser is cast the very instant you become inflicted with any adverse effects whatsoever. What bothers me the most though <several things really> the hunters who absolutely refuse to use a friggin trimate, don't evade the enemies at all, don't stay close to me and demand a resta. One such @hole on psu said to me, "you're a force you're not supposed to be attacking just do your job and heal only.". Screaming in all caps to me "RESTA, RESTA, HEAL!" every 10 seconds. I'm a Force Damnit! You will get your resta, you don't have to scream at me. You don't hear me saying,"ATTACK, ATTACK, use your photon arts!!" every 10 seconds. So the moral of the story is: I don't tell you how to swing a sword, don't tell me how to swing a cane. But that's just me. I'm a great Force. <Theory is the name on psu X360> Feel free however to ask for resta/reverser politely if a force in you're party isn't as keen at watching your hp/status as I am. myspace.com/77047087

[happy_cricket]

Not to mention the fact that if we heal only, we get no experience. Level 1 force characters wont be too fun to party with after a while.

[PMB960]

I have posted this many times but manyu people play other MMOs where there is a specific healing class. Since only Forces have Resta they assume that Forces must only heal. They can't seem to understand that each class can be played many different ways. The description of forces says that they can fill multiple rolls. This isn't FFXI, Forces are not white mages and shouldn't be compared to them. I think most of this debate will go away when advanced classes come since hunters can pick one that will let them heal too.

[BurningRage]

I don't expect a force to be constantly healing everyone in the party no sooner they take damage, but I also don't expect a force to sit there and continue to nuke when I'm right next to them bleeding to death. I'll pop a mate if they're not close enough or are casting another tech.

[Knowbodie]

I normally heal everyone if their hp(all of them as a group) is below 2/3rds, or if one player is nearing yellow (normally they won't heal themselves if a force is around, even if everyone is at full hp). I also tell them to come towards me if the need a resta or reverser (easier than trying to chase them down but sometimes it doesn't work). But i love it when hunters/rangers use mates on thier own(know when to use them, i.e. too far away), or when they dont try to act careless (solo hunter standing in front of a dragon breath not nanoblasting blaming me for their death becuase they couldnt move, use a mate, see the dragon, or because i couldn't reach them in time and then cast it).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Knowbodie on 2006-11-30 09:08 ]</font>

[ThEoRy]

Good point Cricket. If I wasn't supposed to attack then why is it my critical can hit for well over 1000 already at only lvl 41?

[ChrisKo]

Not Hard. Less Than 75% Hp = Do Your Job, Heal Me, Level Resta, and Get Back To Nuking.

[PMB960]

um if I had to heal every time someone got to 75% I wouldn't get any exp ever. Between 33% and 50% yes but only after a battle with I heal at 75%. Also no where in the description of the force class does it say they have to heal.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2006-11-30 09:15 ]</font>

[foamcup]

I stay on top of the healing and Reverser, or if there are two Forces, we'll divide the duties, but I won't heal mute on a hunter or ranger or shock on a force. If I see someone taking too much damage and not healing themselves, they get kicked, or if I'm not the leader I just stop healing. If I get frozen or put to sleep or paralyzed and nobody has any sols to cure me, I stop using Reverser. Sounds bad don't you think? Well, if they aren't going to be team players, then neither am I.

[DocWellington]

Its all simple:
Hunters - They Spam PAs and hurt things, which in turn keeps enimes off Rangers and Forces. Thats their job.
Rangers - They shoot guns and magical bullets, which in turn keeps the hits to Hunters to a minimum, and also holds off the creatures from hitting the Forces, if the Forces happens to be in the wrong spot. Thats their job.
Forces - They should run in, spam a Ra or anything that will hit the creatures, then go back and forth between the rangers and hunters and resta the shit out of everything. Thats their job.
If they dont want to do thier job, kick them, others will be happy to.

[ChrisKo]

Its all simple:
Hunters - They Spam PAs and hurt things, which in turn keeps enimes off Rangers and Forces. Thats their job.
Rangers - They shoot guns and magical bullets, which in turn keeps the hits to Hunters to a minimum, and also holds off the creatures from hitting the Forces, if the Forces happens to be in the wrong spot. Thats their job.
Forces - They should run in, spam a Ra or anything that will hit the creatures, then go back and forth between the rangers and hunters and resta the shit out of everything. Thats their job.
If they dont want to do thier job, kick them, others will be happy to.

I just assumed that everyone who has ever played any type RPG, Mmo Mo strategy or not, to understand this. Guess its a complicated thing to understand maybe we are special....

[happy_cricket]

It looks pretty on paper, but here is another side of the coin:

Hunters: suicide attack mobs and bosses, making zero effort to dodge attacks in a last ditch effort to make sure you get the finishing bonus. While your at it, break up the mobs so that the rangers and forces get attacked on the side as well. Then forget about helping them - after you kill yours, go break opent hat juicy haystack!!!

Rangers: forget ranged, fire on everything from 2 inches away. It makes it easier to aim, and besides, it's the force's job to heal you anyway.

Forces: shut up biotch, and do your job. If you don't, we'll kick your newman ass out our party, and if you end up dying trying to save us while stand in the middle of the dragon fire and continue to attack, well hell, we'll kick you then too.

Granted, many, many games are not like that. But there are plenty of them out there.

[JAFO22000]

On 2006-11-30 09:33, DocWellington wrote:
Its all simple:
Hunters - They Spam PAs and hurt things, which in turn keeps enimes off Rangers and Forces. Thats their job.
Rangers - They shoot guns and magical bullets, which in turn keeps the hits to Hunters to a minimum, and also holds off the creatures from hitting the Forces, if the Forces happens to be in the wrong spot. Thats their job.
Forces - They should run in, spam a Ra or anything that will hit the creatures, then go back and forth between the rangers and hunters and resta the shit out of everything. Thats their job.

If they dont want to do thier job, kick them, others will be happy to.



Wow, you don't want Force's to help kill the creatures?? It must take you a long time to finish a run....if you are on 360, please don't join my party.

[Oxidation]

I just can't wait until the Shifta deband spells come out and its SD every 2 min http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ChrisKo]

Hunters: suicide attack mobs and bosses, making zero effort to dodge attacks in a last ditch effort to make sure you get the finishing bonus. While your at it, break up the mobs so that the rangers and forces get attacked on the side as well. Then forget about helping them - after you kill yours, go break opent hat juicy haystack!!!

Rangers: forget ranged, fire on everything from 2 inches away. It makes it easier to aim, and besides, it's the force's job to heal you anyway.

Forces: shut up biotch, and do your job. If you don't, we'll kick your newman ass out our party, and if you end up dying trying to save us while stand in the middle of the dragon fire and continue to attack, well hell, we'll kick you then too.

I think the topic involving removing the ignorance from your party within a few minuets and before the boss solves this pretty well. We are discussing a forces healing, not healing under the stress of keeping ignorance alive.

[Inspektahdek]

im ALWAYS on top of my healing, that has also landed me much respect with players and its a good feeling nonetheless


I do hate chasing people though!

[DocWellington]

On 2006-11-30 09:52, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2006-11-30 09:33, DocWellington wrote:
Its all simple:
Hunters - They Spam PAs and hurt things, which in turn keeps enimes off Rangers and Forces. Thats their job.
Rangers - They shoot guns and magical bullets, which in turn keeps the hits to Hunters to a minimum, and also holds off the creatures from hitting the Forces, if the Forces happens to be in the wrong spot. Thats their job.
Forces - They should run in, spam a Ra or anything that will hit the creatures, then go back and forth between the rangers and hunters and resta the shit out of everything. Thats their job.

If they dont want to do thier job, kick them, others will be happy to.



Wow, you don't want Force's to help kill the creatures?? It must take you a long time to finish a run....if you are on 360, please don't join my party.



Well im on the 360, and when i play with a few people that seem to understand this, we can take Holy Grounds A in under 20min, so if thats slow then damn how fast can you do a run.

*edit* Not to say Force's can't help kill things, but it shouldnt be primary concern. And chasing guys around isnt what i ment if they run just yell get over here, or let them know before hand if they want a heal to go to you.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DocWellington on 2006-11-30 10:17 ]</font>

[happy_cricket]

On 2006-11-30 09:58, ChrisKo wrote:

Hunters: suicide attack mobs and bosses, making zero effort to dodge attacks in a last ditch effort to make sure you get the finishing bonus. While your at it, break up the mobs so that the rangers and forces get attacked on the side as well. Then forget about helping them - after you kill yours, go break opent hat juicy haystack!!!

Rangers: forget ranged, fire on everything from 2 inches away. It makes it easier to aim, and besides, it's the force's job to heal you anyway.

Forces: shut up biotch, and do your job. If you don't, we'll kick your newman ass out our party, and if you end up dying trying to save us while stand in the middle of the dragon fire and continue to attack, well hell, we'll kick you then too.

I think the topic involving removing the ignorance from your party within a few minuets and before the boss solves this pretty well. We are discussing a forces healing, not healing under the stress of keeping ignorance alive.




That's true. I guess I went on a rant tangent. Personally, I love playing support. Just like you said, not suporting ignorance.

[Zthes]

As a force, I don't mind healing people. Half the time i spend is supporting other hunters in their wild rampage in the fray. Course, I do use ga-s all the time but i hate having to keep track of a over-zealous hunter that thinks he/she is rambo.

[PMB960]

On 2006-11-30 09:40, ChrisKo wrote:

I just assumed that everyone who has ever played any type RPG, Mmo Mo strategy or not, to understand this. Guess its a complicated thing to understand maybe we are special....



The problem is other MMos and RPGs restrict their classes alot. PSU does not. No where in the game does it say forces has to heal. It also doesn't say Hunters have to use swords or Rangers must use guns. If that were true then I can kick any Hunter who pulls out a pistol and tries to tag enemies cause thats not their job. I have not read anywhere where it says Forces must heal, not in the instructions or any class description in game.

[Magician]

Only if asked.

We can't keep an eye on you hunter-ninnies health 24/7.

You want it? Come to us and ask for it.

[JAFO22000]

On 2006-11-30 10:22, Magician wrote:
Only if asked.

We can't keep an eye on you hunter-ninnies health 24/7.

You want it? Come to us and ask for it.



Wrong, a GOOD Force does keep thier eyes on the bottom left of the screen at all times. I don't want my Hunters to break their combo or leave the creature they are attacking for a heal. Most people in my parties don't even realize that I'm healing them. They just notice somewhere down the line that they have never been close to death the whole match..."mysteriously!!".

Heh. I was in a party last night with a ranger who thought his burn effect was damaging a Bil de Veer (sp?) 635 pts.

Him: Damn!! My burn is 635....650....625.
Me: That's me hitting the guy with Foie.
Him: Yeah...right!!
....*burn effect wears off*...
Him: Oh, that is you....

I think people who have never played a Force don't realize how much damage we actually do.

BTW, healing is part of a Force's job. They should perform it without being asked to do so. On the other hand, it is not our WHOLE job. I'm not going to be a heal-bot.

[ChrisKo]

PBM960 speakith..

The problem is other MMos and RPGs restrict their classes alot. PSU does not. No where in the game does it say forces has to heal. It also doesn't say Hunters have to use swords or Rangers must use guns. If that were true then I can kick any Hunter who pulls out a pistol and tries to tag enemies cause thats not their job. I have not read anywhere where it says Forces must heal, not in the instructions or any class description in game.

First of all, obviously you would be included in removing ignorance from the party. If you ARE NOT doing your best to assist the party in the most obvious way you should be removed, this is true in EVERY game. I wonder if there is a reason resta has a large AOE radius that grows as it lvls hmmm.

It is also very funny how the people with NO POINT to be made use huge overstatements for examples.

[JAFO22000]

I also wonder why Resta costs the most PP to cast...by FAR.

[ChrisKo]

If you actually have to wonder then you arn't doing your home work *Cough Its actually a GIRESTA Cough*.
Compare it to the Gi series of spells please.

[foamcup]

On 2006-11-30 10:58, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2006-11-30 10:22, Magician wrote:
Only if asked.

We can't keep an eye on you hunter-ninnies health 24/7.

You want it? Come to us and ask for it.



Wrong, a GOOD Force does keep thier eyes on the bottom left of the screen at all times. I don't want my Hunters to break their combo or leave the creature they are attacking for a heal. Most people in my parties don't even realize that I'm healing them. They just notice somewhere down the line that they have never been close to death the whole match..."mysteriously!!".

Heh. I was in a party last night with a ranger who thought his burn effect was damaging a Bil de Veer (sp?) 635 pts.

Him: Damn!! My burn is 635....650....625.
Me: That's me hitting the guy with Foie.
Him: Yeah...right!!
....*burn effect wears off*...
Him: Oh, that is you....

I think people who have never played a Force don't realize how much damage we actually do.

BTW, healing is part of a Force's job. They should perform it without being asked to do so. On the other hand, it is not our WHOLE job. I'm not going to be a heal-bot.



Damn right, we can do crazy damage, especially the newmans. I can't wait to get Fortecher. *drools*

[Sinue_v2]

The way I play, I usually carry dual-weilds. A gun and a wand. Run in, tag, support, nuke when I'm not busy tagging new spawns or supporting. Eventually, I won't even have to bother with using a gun - since Jellen & Zalure will tag for XP automatically and I can switch to full support mode.

My Resta habit: I don't just watch the health bar - I watch how much it fluctuates per hit. If someone is only getting a little bit shaved off per hit taken, then I may not bother healing them until they are around 50% health. Unless of course, there are others who need healed closeby. If I see them take a hit in which around 1/8th or more of their total HP is wiped out - then I'm going to keep them absolute top shape since getting cornered and hit repeatedly that hard is a fast and brutal death. Even a half-second more time saved by having them at full HP, means I have a better chance of getting to them and saving S-Rank. However, I also expect them to use mates in situations like that... but I know better than to assume that they will.

I also try to get everyone to full health by being the first one at the door and tagging the group as they run by. If you're not with the group - then sorry. Catch you on the next door maybe.

[JAFO22000]

On 2006-11-30 11:14, ChrisKo wrote:
If you actually have to wonder then you arn't doing your home work *Cough Its actually a GIRESTA Cough*.
Compare it to the Gi series of spells please.



Sounds like you're still stuck in PSO. Giresta is a whole different spell now. By your logic, Reverser should be called Gireverser?? BTW, here's a Halls for that nasty cough you have.

[ChrisKo]

I was too slow http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif.

And you got the point don't act dumb and make me explain. AOE = COST MORE PP. Lookie I should be a poet.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisKo on 2006-11-30 11:22 ]</font>

[Ronzeru]

If someone hits 50% HP, that's when you toss them a heal. Or when all the action dies down and everyone is heading from one area to the next, you can toss out a heal, being as you won't really be doing anything else with no monsters around.

When someone's hp dips to 90% or 80% in the heat of battle, unless you can see that they are about to be in a dire emergancy (such as being caught accidently in between 3 Bil Bears that look like their about to do that damn spinning attack), forces don't need to turn their focus away from damage dealing yet, and the hunters shouldn't be bitching about no heals.

[AngelLight]

Bottom line, if a party wants you to heal bot, dont play with them. Forces are in demand....not hunters. Let the dumb hunters suffer if they can't realize that there's a big benefit to having a competent force both covering their ass with healing as well as speeding up the kill a thon with solid damage output.



I think people who have never played a Force don't realize how much damage we actually do.

BTW, healing is part of a Force's job. They should perform it without being asked to do so. On the other hand, it is not our WHOLE job. I'm not going to be a heal-bot.


This person has only been saying what every good force has been saying since day one, amazing how ppl seem to only read what they want to see. So long as players work together as a team and play to the maximum possible potential of each class (all of it) then there's no reason why any one class should demand of any other ones.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-11-30 11:24 ]</font>

[Shadow_Wing]

Ranger burn on A rank 'Hildebears' I think is about 760, at least cause we need that level 3 rifle burn to even make it stick =D.

Anyways...

Forces should heal, I don't expect them to heal me 24/7, but they should be on top of healing.

As a force, I try to be on top of healing cause I know how much of a pain it is to use mates a lot, but also people should be able to heal themselves when they're in a crunch.

[EphekZ]

PSO population were a lot more team oreinted =/. in PSO you didnt even have to think "Is this FO going to heal me?" Now the FOs bitch if they have to resta, well the bad ones anyways.

[ChrisKo]

Angel? No one has disagreed with any of your points, and your opinion isn't very clear. If your saying that forces should heal as necessary for the parties situation, thats obvious...

[Nayte]

The main reason i play force is because, when it comes to harder missions i dont want to rely on a crappy force to "maybe heal me when he or she feels like it" instead of when appropriate. You should be proud of the fact that you're the only class that can has a heal spell at all. Or is that why some people play force? for the attention? i know lots of people who did that in FFXI ( bards and red mages). Of course, I also play because i like the class. I played hunter class too much on offline anyway.

[Akaimizu]

I do agree, that a Force that concentrates on keeping everybody alive uses the party health indicator as their bible. It was that way in PSO, I don't see a reason for that to change today.

Of course, back in PSO, most who adhered to quality party play with forces, had an unspoken standard. In those groups, the Force was very knowledgable in group combat, and lovingly lead the party as a unit. Not necessarily lead the party, from the front, but from behind. They softened up monsters, didn't attempt to just steal exp, and tried to make sure the group was coordinated enough so that they will be in range for some well-needed help.

Either that, or the Force was nice enough to communicate that they were still learning how to do things, with the hope that a knowledgable party member will help them out, show them some pointers, all the while, using positive input to make sure the force was working more effectively. The force would then leave as an improved force and come into new parties better than before.

I truly think the main issue here, is a breakdown of communication, perhaps in both directions here. Forces may not be as good at communicating that they're learning the ropes; and other people jump to conclusions that the Force is being a bad sport and jump down their throats without starting with kind pointers. Thereby, forcing the individual to be overly defensive and thus things turn bad.

Now of course, there's a higher ratio of casual level players on PSU. Especially with the Dreamcast PSO, you had a more niche market group of users. And you know the difference of Niche Market users. They're usually always the best at working together because, as a whole, they together are more experienced at the ways of cooperative play across different games.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-11-30 11:34 ]</font>

[Ronzeru]

The hell we shouldn't "demand." In my last party I was in, I use to use Sol Atomizers to take effects like sleep and unconciousness off of other party members, the FORCES included. I even used Star Atomizers to heal the other members too when I saw them in the yellow. Why? Because the force decided he should fight the enemys that were furthest away from the core group.

Now if I as a hunter can use my items to do what a force should be doing, when my items SHOULD be for emergancy use only... then how do I not get the right to demand the force to get his act together?

Case in point, not wanting to do that just because a force wants to take forever to kill one mob with his/her strong spells, while a hunter kills another monster in a faster time being as the damage they dishes out quicker, and a more consistant stream of back to back hits... is just a selfish display of E-Penis.

[Ravennittes]

I, as a force, take some abuse for not healing 24/7, but, you hunters should learn to play so you don't get hurt as much. What happens when forces arn't there healing you and doing MORE damage then you? To us forces, all you are is really good meatshields, ie. we keep you alive so you can allow us to nuke without being murdered. Please, we hate it when you:
1: Are on fire and run around us screaming like little girls
2: Have 3/4 HP and ask for a heal, we will when it's right, so STFU.
3: Suck at being a meatshield.

[AngelLight]

On 2006-11-30 11:26, ChrisKo wrote:
Angel? No one has disagreed with any of your points, and your opinion isn't very clear. If your saying that forces should heal as necessary for the parties situation, thats obvious...



LOL, well I guess when I see a hundred lets blame forces or Healbot or kick threads I turn on the "Angry Cat" Nano ^_^

I think part of what is so upsetting is that there's a thread in the gameplay forum where a new force was asking for advice on how to play solo....and the general concensious from people was like "No, you suck as solo, just level resta and healbot". That drives me nuts that there are still short sighted people that only think of what's good for themselves vs. what's good for the player as well as the party. And what's good for the party is a two way street keep in mind. That means healing and nuking...not one or the other. However, in the same tune, being a hunter who spams one button, sends things flying all over the place or, even better, makes no attempt to protect themselves and just let their hp drop like a rock expecting someone else to attach themselves to them like an IV from a hospital....well that's just as bad if not worse.

I wish people were more in tune with trying to find a balance in themselves as opposed to just expecting someone else to do it for them.

[Mystil]

I forgot her name, but I know who she is when I see the name again..the most awesome force I ever played with. I think it's Raikya.. So I was using mates and stuff, and she told me don't use mates. Now it could have been because she was resta me almost a second after I used one, but that's very uncanny for a force to say that. And yea she nuked and all that good stuff. She wasn't reduced to a heal-bot. That's a force I wouldn't mind losing a scape for.

I've played with a few who would not heal at all unless it was to top our HPs at the boss warp. For awhile I was angry at forces in general for this. But I know I'm not one of the many hunters out there that make it hard. But I suffer along with em, as well any other self respecting hunter(since resta is AOE, so if you deny one person a heal, you deny all..).

About asking for heals..

Every force is also not the same. Asking some would be like insulting or demanding them. Too much trial and error>.<.



3: Suck at being a meatshield.
This takes some MAJOR practicing and positioning since there is NO real way to get a monsters attention once they all lay eyes on you. We can be beat half to death for you for a couple of seconds and then the monster will just blow us off and go for you. It's difficult.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2006-11-30 11:40 ]</font>

[Bleemo]

This thread is full of repeated claims and refuted opinions.

If Resta spewed candy out when cast, I'm pretty sure everyone would be acting differently.

This debate is old and wrinkly.

[Shadow_Wing]

Candy spewing Resta you say....

[Akaimizu]

Actually, the worst thing other players can ever do for a force, is have everybody else run around in different directions. This was the case for PSO. In those cases, you definitely have no say to talk down a Force who really couldn't help everybody else out.

I've seen enough times where a Force just couldn' t keep up with all the hunters that ran with wild abandon. Or kept running alone to locations of which the Force would nearly be committing suicide to follow.

A party that sticks together is the best thing, since a Force can't be in two places at once.

[Ronzeru]

Also the entire 'more damage' thing is annoying. The only thing that lets a Force maximize their full potential at damage output, is those Hunters that are standing in between you and the enemies you're fighting.

If not, it takes forever for a lot of forces to kill those things, because they have to keep on changing what position their standing in, rather than staying in the best spot, and casting away at the enemies backside that isn't even focusing on them.

But yes, Hunters who fight at a monster's face is annoying as hell. But because there are so many mosnters around the area, you can't 100% avoid all contact, unless you dramatically diminish your damage output.

[ChrisKo]

The hell we shouldn't "demand." In my last party I was in, I use to use Sol Atomizers to take effects like sleep and unconciousness off of other party members, the FORCES included. I even used Star Atomizers to heal the other members too when I saw them in the yellow. Why? Because the force decided he should fight the enemys that were furthest away from the core group.

Now if I as a hunter can use my items to do what a force should be doing, when my items SHOULD be for emergancy use only... then how do I not get the right to demand the force to get his act together?

Case in point, not wanting to do that just because a force wants to take forever to kill one mob with his/her strong spells, while a hunter kills another monster in a faster time being as the damage they dishes out quicker, and a more consistant stream of back to back hits... is just a selfish display of E-Penis.

You sir, are speaking of those in the "ignorant" catagory, who should be removed from the party. Problem solved?


I, as a force, take some abuse for not healing 24/7, but, you hunters should learn to play so you don't get hurt as much. What happens when forces arn't there healing you and doing MORE damage then you? To us forces, all you are is really good meatshields, ie. we keep you alive so you can allow us to nuke without being murdered. Please, we hate it when you:
1: Are on fire and run around us screaming like little girls
2: Have 3/4 HP and ask for a heal, we will when it's right, so STFU.
3: Suck at being a meatshield.

You sir, are partially in the "ignorant" catagory and should probably be removed from the party for your poor attitude.

[Ravennittes]

Ronzeru, lets take Desert Terror A. It's a long map right? Think about us forces. How do you think we can heal at the end with little or no PP? Wouldn't you rather us heal you when nessesary and be able to heal you at the end of block 3 and still be able to help by nuking?

[Ronzeru]

The thing is, in a area as dangerious as that in A rank, and as many status effects as those things put on everyone there... there are a LOT of ocassions when it IS very necessary to heal. Also what a lot of my force friends usually do is take a trip back to town midway to replinish PP, before returning to the fight.

[Ravennittes]

Chris, my point is, It's annoying when hunters hide behind me, yell for a heal when they don't need it, or, as I've seen before, run around me screaming "Reverser! Reverser!" while on fire... Believe me, I'm on top of it and will keep you alive, but I take offense to nagging and stupidity.

[Ronzeru]

Also what I wanted to add is, the reason hunters do move near a force when they have a status element on them, or their hp is in the yellow, is because forces STATE that they don't want to travel all the way to the Hunter and in dangers way to heal them... so the Hunters come to them. But when they do, they still get annoyed. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. As for fire, me personally, I only go to a Force when i'm shocked, so that I can continue attacking.

[Ravennittes]

Ronzeru, if you have a 360, I'll play with ya (I'd have to go offline for that though). I have considerable PP and can make it through DTA with enough PP if I don't have to heal every two seconds cause you've lost like 200 HP out of your 1600.

[Ronzeru]

That I can agree with. If a Hunter is at 1400/1600 HP and is bitching about being healed, he should be bitchsmacked.

[Ravennittes]

I don't mind if you come near, I DO mind if you bitch about it while having 3/4 HP and I'm contently nuking, and woulda come over at around 1/2 HP, which is about the HP I have, maybe more.

[Ronzeru]

I'm a human hunter, so my HP is around 1.3k. If my HP dips to 800, I still don't have to worry about a heal. Why? Because while fighting, i'm avoiding enough attacks to get my HP back up past 1k on its own, because of not being cheap, and having purchased a HP/Regen unit for my extra slot a long time ago.

[Mystil]

Sometimes a monster will piss me off and I like to shove them in some corner and go one on one with them. Obviously I know I have heal myself.

Typically if I don't recieve a heal when I drop to 600(from 1021max) I mate away. Never under any circumstances unless a badass crit of doom should you allow yourself to get in the yellow. But alas, there are those that do O_o.

[Ronzeru]

Like I said. Getting caught in the middle of 3 Bil Bears who all decide to go Zangief on your ass at once.

[PMB960]

On 2006-11-30 11:05, ChrisKo wrote:
First of all, obviously you would be included in removing ignorance from the party. If you ARE NOT doing your best to assist the party in the most obvious way you should be removed, this is true in EVERY game. I wonder if there is a reason resta has a large AOE radius that grows as it lvls hmmm.

It is also very funny how the people with NO POINT to be made use huge overstatements for examples.



Well I have been a part of parties where one guy would run in the complete opposite direction of the rest of the party, die then I get booted for not healing him. That is why I am complaining. Also I don't level as Resta does I only level from killing monsters which aparently I am not allowed to do.

[Ronzeru]

Now that's just retarded PMB960. Hunters like that shouldn't be hunters at all. I've ran off from my party myself personally when I found out that the party missed a room by mistake. But I end up clearing out the room by myself, and using my own healing items to keep me up.

[Kers]

On 2006-10-28 19:30, Aaomi wrote:
I would choose "They should heal if it is needed"

[Witchblade56]

Christ >.>

How many threads do we really need for complaints about forces? As hunters you do have a responsibility for your own well being as well. And yes i play predominantly melee jobs [check my sig].

I always carry healing items for myself and teammates as forces cant always run over and cure us in a jam. Sols, stars, dimates are all on my speedbar right next to my weapons.

These boards drop an awful lot and the ingredients for them also drop . . . perhaps crafting them might be of benefit? They are afterall 100% failsafe. Stick the board in and see.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-30 12:33 ]</font>

[Ronzeru]

If the entire game was to be strictly responsible for our own well being, it wouldn't be a team based game. It'd either be online offline, or it'd be setup so that it'd be a Player Vs. Player game. It's made so that we are each responsible for each other.

[Witchblade56]

Ronzeru,

If you read carefully what i posted there was a portion of the sentence that stated "... as well". This is not to be taken as exclusive; thanks for reading what you wanted out of what i posted.

Part of participating in a gaming community is being possessed of a certain self reliance i.e. not completely relying upon others to take care of every crisis involving status abnormalities etc.

I'm not advocating that everyone should be "On their own". Neither did I propose that we are not responsible for each other.

Simply put if you are relying 100% for that force to be responsible for your well being at -every- given moment of a mission then your expectations are a bit high. If a party member runs off ahead to start engaging enemies in the next room and they end up dead do you propose the fault should be squarely placed upon the force? Yes this is an extreme example but the protrayal of what i want you to see is there.

Monomates/dimate/trimates are placed in the game for a reason. They are there for those particular instances wherein we find ourselves partied up with people that do not fit in with the norm. There are those instances that i have seen happen. Rare occasions where the person playing a force character doesnt use resta to help the party but instead chooses to nuke exclusively. If you fail an s ranking on a mission because you simply didnt bother to use those curative items in your inventory then the fault is your own. Your own stupidity. Your complete ineptitude for not being able to watch your own health and keep yourself alive. Forces cant always be expected to keep within a certain radius of every player all the time. If that were so I'd say they would be losing out on exp points. They wouldnt be able to gain exp effectively.

If you fully believe that everyone should conform to what you feel should occur in -any- given mission room then please pay for all our accounts and we'll be happy to take it into consideration.

I am going to reiterate what i stated in the original post that you loosely quoted. I carry stars/sols in those instances where my force is in a jam and cant cure say two of us on the otherside of the room getting whacked and burned by w/e mob we may be fighting.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-30 13:38 ]</font>

[Mystil]

Yes yes we've tried siding with the forces already. It doesn't work ;p.

[Witchblade56]

Meh Silo it is erksome to see people post blythely about how people should play.

Im siding for both particular view points; hunters shouldnt rely entirely upon forces and forces shouldnt expect hunters to cure themselves 100% of the time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Teamwork is what i harp on.

[Ronzeru]

The thing is, this game is based more on team reliance than self.

[Witchblade56]

Ronzeru LOL /pokes,

Im not advocating against team reliance, however functioning as a team also means we can take care of ourselves as well as each other collectively. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-30 14:12 ]</font>

[Ogni-XR21]

I am actually bored if I can't be the healbot of a party. I was playing a mission in the desert a while ago where I had to heal and reverse all the time (my reverser went from lvl 14 to 15 in one run) and it was the best game I had in a looong time!

But that's just how I like to play it, I'm actually happy that some force don't like to heal, cause 2 support forces in one party are too much for my liking.

To be honest, when I play my hunter I can't stand forces that don't heal, but that's because I would play it totally different...

[Witchblade56]

Takes one to know one is the saying Ogni. I'm a closet force myself and usually play as force when i solo with my PM and my NPC. I spam resta/reverser alot to keep them alive through b rank and on one occasion A rank missions. I also have the rods/wands to accomodate that playstyle.

I dont complain when in a random pt with people i dont know because.. well i dont know them. If the force isnt healing the pt very well i give it two runs then i move on. No hard feelings. I do random parties only when my usual group of friends isnt online :/

I dont concern myself with dying due to inadequacies on on a forces part, especially in a random party. We dont lose exp like we do in another MMO that i wont state here http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[lavosmanx]

Here is the deal, hunters should bring some ammount of mates with them and forces should heal, atleast one healing force is fine but only in between. A friend and I that game together, he works effectively healing and fighting at the same time. Though I don' expect him to do my share of the work. Since I use multi-enemy weapons... I can defend him when he needs it. Let's put it this way, I dont think he's died on me yet and when I died it was due to my own fault... not his.

If I catch someone not doing their part as a member of the team and I have control. I will boot them. Not healing someone because you dont want to is stupid if you have the power. Do you REALLY want to lose an S rank over pride?

[Ronzeru]

Speaking of which, I need to finish getting my Whitemage to 75 so I can leave that job alone, and go onto camping that brownbelt item drop again. I've left it at 70 for too damn long ~_~;. I'll prolly just end up doing the BCNM for the marb vine tho if I can't find the ToD.

[ChocoboChad]

On 2006-11-30 14:19, Ogni-XR21 wrote:
I am actually bored if I can't be the healbot of a party. I was playing a mission in the desert a while ago where I had to heal and reverse all the time (my reverser went from lvl 14 to 15 in one run) and it was the best game I had in a looong time!

But that's just how I like to play it, I'm actually happy that some force don't like to heal, cause 2 support forces in one party are too much for my liking.

To be honest, when I play my hunter I can't stand forces that don't heal, but that's because I would play it totally different...

I feel exactly the same really. Sure, I do some damage, but the most fun comes from reverser.

To all the forces out there; I hope you try Seabed Lab one day. It's a blast.

[Witchblade56]

Heh i do heal, understand the role a force plays in a pt. No i dont want to lose S rank. Then again i havent partied with anyone other than those i know -especially- when doing A ranks.

If you play in a random party dont set your expectations too high. This isnt to say that doing random parties with people is bad. Not at all.

I wouldnt want to do a random A mission with people i dont know, the chances of screw ups is greater due to unfamiliarity with a particular persons playstyle.

You have to consider some people methods of play require higher levels of maintenance from forces. Maybe the force in the party in turn isnt very attentive. A rank means a quick death for the inattentive http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Ravennittes]

The robot one, yes, that's fun. Lab Recovery, hell no. That's suicide. I don't care WHAT class you are. Hunters should know that diga is their best friend because it deals at least as much damage as whatever may be.

[Mystil]

. . . .I don't agree with this play with friends only thing. You never meet new people that way. That's why I prefer to join random parties. You can still have friends and play with them, but geez not all the darn time..

God I hate my typing skills.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2006-11-30 15:14 ]</font>

[Ronzeru]

Forces not healing in this game tho, is like a Summoner in FFXI that refuses to use his Cure spells, and only wants to use Blood Pacts.

[Candor]

If i ever do play a force (reconsidering it now with all these topics), i wouldn't have a problem with healing.

But one thing I cannot stand is strangers expecting something from me (sounds kinda bad but you get the point hopefully). So many people expect the force to heal and then freak out if they don't.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Candor on 2006-11-30 15:16 ]</font>

[Mystil]

You all post fast.

me ---> /give up

*goes to bed*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2006-11-30 15:17 ]</font>

[Witchblade56]

Eh FFXI isnt PSU.

and ya silo i know however whenever i get on my friends usually ask me to party since they are already on or i ask to join their parties [theres usually always room] http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Early in the morning i solo for synth mats. on the weekends i random to meet people. Weeknights are spent with friends mostly as we are all on at that time.

[Ronzeru]

lmao@Silhouette

[Ronzeru]

FFXI isn't PSU, but it's the same mindframe. Smns can dish out a ton of damage too. But they've gotta be insane if they think that they don't have to use cure. And i'm not talking about the good forces. Only the ones who gripe and refuse to touch Resta and Reversa. If you started off as a Force, are a level 10 Force at level 40+, and only have your Resta and Reversa leveled to 8, that's gotta tell you something.

[Mystil]

Really though..FFXI is TRASH compared to this game, even in NA PSU's current state. I'm fucking glad I cancelled my content ID and left behind all those stupid idiotic players who are so willing to drop thier friends for a GOT DAMN KIRIN'S OSODE. I don't miss FFXI...I don't miss nothing of it.

PSO hackers > RMT
PSO community > FFXI community
People on this forum > Allakhazam

The only thing FFXI has better than PSU is the CORPERATION. Now can we PLEASE focus on something that is WORTH talking about? Like NOT a crapass game like Final Neglection XI Online?

[Ronzeru]

Luckily, I never got into a LS that were filled with lootwhores. And it's still hard for me to leave a game once I hit cap level on more than one jobs. And my server has a lot of damn lootwhores on it too, + gilsellers. We had one of the worse economies next to Fairy server. <3 Asura, FTW!

[Witchblade56]

Eh ive got alot of nice items in FFXI... this isnt the point of the topic.

Resta and reverser level does tell you something about the person granted. Especially if the person has level 10 as a force @ level 40. Can't argue that. Even playing an all bow force on a cast you still get high resta/everser levels if your doing the bare minimum.

Silo if you want to party sometime this weekend you can PM me and we can set something up. I expect though ill be on hunter capping saber/double saber PA's farming for synths. lemme know though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Yeah let's stay away from FFXI on this forum lol

I think this topic has been beaten to death and brought up prior to this particular thread. While not invalid in any way we should accept that there will always be two sides to this story.

/doesnt know where this thread is going currently lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-30 15:45 ]</font>

[Mystil]

We derailed/rerailed the thread. We win.

Party at Ronzeru's house!

[Ronzeru]

It's like not natural to have a topic this long about the same subject, and not derail it at all. =/