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Guilty-Mirage
Oct 30, 2006, 04:04 AM
Mechguns have an obvious advantage - ludicrous damage in a short period of time at the sacrifice of having to fire at extremely short range and draining your PP battery extremely fast.

Rifles have an obvious advantage - they're powerful per-shot and can fire from a hell of a long ways off.

What exactly is the perk of double handguns, though? They do less damage every two shots (one press of the attack key) to every one shot from an equally grinded, equal rank rifle. Their range is significantly shorter. They have less PP (usually about a 15% difference.) And the firing rate seems to be about the same (in terms of one rifle shot per two handgun shots.)

Do they have double the chance to land status effects or something?

I use them just because they look cool and the damage difference isn't usually huge... but, yeah. Anyone know if dual handguns have a unique perk? Maybe something I missed or am incorrect about?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guilty-Mirage on 2006-10-30 01:05 ]</font>

Monie
Oct 30, 2006, 04:20 AM
From what I heard their effect lasts longer and doesn't drain as much PP as mechgun. Also heard mechguns don't do as much damage... if you search for a post by LoneVandal (the status effect post for rangers) he mentions this.

kragma
Oct 30, 2006, 04:27 AM
With twin gun you fire a lot of rounds, doesnt drain as much as pp as mechguns and the bullet effet kicks more often than a riffle. They are perfect to use with ice bullets when you are soloing or for mob control.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kragma on 2006-10-30 01:27 ]</font>

Raikuro
Oct 30, 2006, 06:36 AM
Twin handguns let you move while shooting, rifles don't...

AngelLight
Oct 30, 2006, 10:43 AM
^ Raikuro has it pretty much right, thats the main benefit of them.

I do know that high accuracy two handed range weapons (rifles and bows) have better chances to proc with their elemental bullets then other weapons "per hit" (their PAs level the additional effect level quicker I've noticed then on smaller weapon's versions). But, if procs are your goal, it should be noted that at higher levels, mechguns will proc really well due to the "burst" nature of their attacks. Never used twins before, but I'm thinking that rifles and bows will still have better proc chances then twins will.

Carlo210
Oct 30, 2006, 12:07 PM
Dual handguns cause status effects slightly more often, but they last for a short period of time.

I'm still switching between a guntecher-type of setup and a fortegunner-type of setup. I like the power of rifles and usefulness of shotguns, but I also like being able to buff myself with techs while using a handgun or crossbow.

By the way, 1 handed guns restore pp twice as fast as 2 handed guns (2 handed guns restore pp at a ludicrously slow rate). One handed weapons also cast less pp per shot, though they do less damage per shot and have less pp to begin with.
Dual pistols have a stigma, inmy opinion. Dual pistols have lower pp than rifles, same pp-regen rate as rifles, and similar pp consumption per shot.
Now, you may think that the faster pp regen rate makes up for it, but it doesn't. With 2 handed weapons, you don't have anything else in your other hand to do while letting your gun recharge pp slowly. With a rifle, it's the same deal, but two-handed weapon are aimed towards having high pp instead of having a high regeneration rate.

Something to consider.

AngelLight
Oct 30, 2006, 01:00 PM
so twins level their special effects faster? By that I mean, on the item desc. the level of the status effect that shows up.....that's really unusual....cause I'd figure it would be the reverse.

To be honest, as a force, my experience with missile weapons are handguns and bows.....but honestly, I can't wait for Cards to slap onto my off hand slots for wands.

Homing Missile Attacks FTW ^_^

KiteWolfwood
Oct 30, 2006, 05:19 PM
My GRM Handguns(3) with Twin Burning, does around 45 each shot(90 total), 50ish each shot on ice(100 total) and they have 800 something PP. My Yohmei Rifle(3) with Freezing Shot does around 80 each shot, 100ish on fire and has 1200 PP.

So far in the damage department my Twin handguns actually do more then my Rifle. My rifle has higher PP, shoots farther, and has higher element damage against the right mobs. My Twin handguns have less PP, regenerate PP slower, but they do more overall damage since they fire at a faster rate. Also it takes around 2-3 shots for my burn effect to go off. Where as my Rifle seems to freeze every 7-10 shots.

This is just what I have noticed so far. Then again though as a Ranger my damage isn't as important as my status effects are. Love being able to burn a group of mobs and watch as they take 70 damage a tick when the Hunters are only doing 30 damage a hit or Paralyzing/freezing a group of mobs so that they are helpless as the hunters rip them to shreds.

Itsuki
Oct 31, 2006, 11:09 AM
People have some misconceptions here:

Rifles and twin handguns deal roughly the same amount in nearly all situations. Really, theres almost no difference in damage except twins tend to deal more vs low def monsters and rifles deal more vs high def monsters.

Rifles have upgrading status effects, but twins hit twice, and thus can have inflict status effects twice as often.

Rifles have range going for them, while on the other hand, Twins have mobility.

So its all a matter of preference. As for mechguns dealing damage, I don't think so. Not unless you're way overleveled in an area. Also, mechguns only inflict level 1 status effects.

AngelLight
Oct 31, 2006, 11:13 AM
well yeah I wasn't saying the mech guns do more dmg, but merely pointing out that even though it's still a level 1 effect, its like what 3 to 5 hits per tick to get a proc off? Basically a quantity vs. quality thing....that's what mechs have going for them.

Itsuki
Oct 31, 2006, 12:33 PM
I was actually referring the the topic starter, this line:

Mechguns have an obvious advantage - ludicrous damage in a short period of time at the sacrifice of having to fire at extremely short range and draining your PP battery extremely fast.

Alisha
Oct 31, 2006, 12:49 PM
do any guns other than longbows start with lvl 2 status effect? O_O

Rexob
Oct 31, 2006, 01:10 PM
I've been using Twin Handguns and really like them a lot, the mobility is great with them...While the status effects may not last as long, they seem to happen more often with the handguns being it's 2-shots each time. They fire faster too than Rifles...I like them overall.

Erasure25
Oct 31, 2006, 01:26 PM
On 2006-10-31 08:09, Itsuki-chan wrote:
So its all a matter of preference. As for mechguns dealing damage, I don't think so. Not unless you're way overleveled in an area. Also, mechguns only inflict level 1 status effects.


So mechguns only do level 1 SE? You can't get it to level 2? I saw my rifle was up to level 2 SE (burn) at around level 7 (maybe it happened before then, I just didn't notice).

If so, that's a little dissapointing for mechguns. Are they worth gettting?

Guilty-Mirage
Oct 31, 2006, 02:53 PM
On 2006-10-31 08:09, Itsuki-chan wrote:
So its all a matter of preference. As for mechguns dealing damage, I don't think so. Not unless you're way overleveled in an area.

That's odd. Assuming equal grade weapons and equal grinding, mechguns do pretty well against your average creatures in my experience... and the damage tallies up awfully fast. They only seem to lose their burst damage capacity vs heavily armored targets. But the only use I've found for them is a backup sidearm for my melee weapon combo. The PP efficiency just isn't there.

Maybe they don't do as much burst damage as I seem to think they do, but... just based on quick math in my head, they seem to do what they're intended to do, which is put out the most damage of any gun in the shortest possible period of time.

Again, assuming it's not a particularly high DFP monster.

Anyway, I'm highly pleased with my Twin Lockguns at the moment. Just synthed my Twin Beatguns earlier, and I'm looking forward to trying those out later when I get home.

Thanks for the info.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guilty-Mirage on 2006-10-31 11:56 ]</font>

Itsuki
Oct 31, 2006, 03:33 PM
Are you playing online or offline? Offline, yes, they are a huge damage burst. Online, you're just going to see a string of 20 to 30s, when you can just as easily pull out a rifle and shoot once for 125-150.

Again though, offline is different because offline rangers have stupid amounts of atp.

As for the status effect question, copy pasted from my post in the ranger thread:

Rifle and Bow are 2 -> 3 -> 4.

Handgun, crossbow, and gernade launcher are 1 -> 2 -> 3.

Shotgun, dualies, and cards are 2 across the board.

Mechguns and Lasers are 1 across the board.

(these are for 30, some of these start out slower than others, but for 21+ they are basically the same)
Handgun, twin handgun, rifle, and bow are 160% / 155% ATP

Shotgun is 150% / 145% ATP

Crossbow is 145% / 140% ATP

Mechgun I don't know, but I believe its most likely 130% across the board.

Laser and Gernade launcher I'm somewhat unsure about, but the information I've seen seems to indicate they both end up at 170% / 165%
Now, when I say 2 -> 3 -> 4, that means at level 1+ its a level 2 status effect, at level 11+ its a level 3, at level 12+ its a level 4.

For the %s, the first number is for fire/gravity, the second is for plasma/ice.

So to answer alisha, Long Bows, Rifles, Shotguns, dualies, and cards all start with level 2 status effects. BUT Long Bows and Rifles get level 3 and 4 status effects while the others stay at level 2.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-31 12:34 ]</font>

Cause_I_Own_U
Oct 31, 2006, 06:30 PM
Twin handguns and rifles start at status effects LVL 2 , so they will proc more and last longer than the other guns, plus they do some of the most dmg of the guns and you can aim them up and down at bosses and such

Twin handguns are imo the best ranger gun, its most usefull in the majority of situtions



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-10-31 15:30 ]</font>

Guilty-Mirage
Nov 1, 2006, 08:30 PM
Thanks very much for all the info!

And I play pretty much exclusively online. Maybe I was just confused by the damage spam.

Dusk21
Nov 1, 2006, 09:04 PM
I find machineguns extremely useful for mowing the small trash monsters out of my way, for them with their low defense even MGs deal decent damage, and combined with the speed and movement makes them horribly efficient (speed wise, ammo wise its still bad http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif ) at that, however anything medium sized or higher I'd have to say its not worth it.

Dualies started about even damage to rifles for me but at this point my duals are dealing quite a bit more than my rifle assuming both hits connect, which they usually do. Even if my rifle is equipped to the best element for the job, as long as my duals aren't equipped as the same type as the mob they deal more. Firing rate seems a tad bit faster on the duals too, as well as the higher mobility being a major perk. Higher SE apply rates due to the double bullets is icing on the cake, plasma duals will have a whole room paralyzed and standing right infront of you like idiots, making the range discrepancy moot.

Rifles are starting to fall out of favor for me, sure my ATP number sounds and looks great but in practice the duals just seem better. The lack of being able to move with rifles also has me using them less, however the high level status is still great. Rifles can also pierce an enemy's defense sooner than anything else right now as well, so I guess thats an advantage. As of now my rifle is mostly reserved for slower enemies, bosses, and flyers(and goushin, gotta have the high single hits for those SOBs)