Set Order blows, and Random is worse.

[McLaughlin]

Give Finder is evidently the only way I'll make ANY money or get ANY synthesis items.

Set Order sucks. Not only is money counted as an item, but I only ever get 1 out of every 6 items that drop. Not only this, but usually when it comes to my turn, I get shafted with a Dimate or something stupid like a Berry. Coupled with the fact I never get hit, so I don't even get the damn Mate because I'm full on them, which also skips my turn completely and rewards me with 1 out of 12 items. Plus, when new people join the group it seems to screw with the order and I get shafted even further if this setting is being used for Rares (which is idiotic might I add). As proof, I just did 3 Sleeping Warriors B runs, and got 11 synthesis materials and made just over 3000 meseta, which is including the 1000 we got after each of our 3 S Ranks.

Set random is even worse. For whatever reason, my luck sucks. I get even less here than on Set Order, and it'll be a cold day in Hell if I ever get money with this setting. I don't mid this setting so much on Rares, because they only show up every so often, but for regular items this sucks hardcore.

This leaves me with Give Finder. I like this option because, being a Hunter, I can get SOME money, and leave the rest for everyone else. IF I need a Mate, I can get one off the ground, and not be screwed out of the next 5 items. I see a synthesis material I need, I make a dash for it. If I don't get it, tough luck. At least I have a chance at the next one.

If you join my games, we'll be playing under Give Finder, and possibly Random Rares. I'm not the Hunter who's an Item Whore, I'm the Hunter who needs to be able to get money, and Give Finder seems to be the only way for me to do so. I don't vacuum up everything in sight, but I like having a chance at stuff, and not picking up an Inverter Circuit and having the idiot who's still a block behind yell out "What the hell is an Inverter Circuit?"

*Assumes battle position*





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zeta on 2006-11-04 19:21 ]</font>

[FenixStryk]

Rare: Random and Normal: Set in Order is the only way to go.
Sure, you're not getting as much, but it prevents item whores entirely.
Sacrifices must be made to balance the classes and remove Hunter Item Whores, like you.

[asura0]

i'm a hunter, and personally i LOVE random and order because i don't have to worry about weither or not i'm hogging items. it really makes everything fair, especially for ranges and fos, who tend to get shafted by greedy folks.

[SpishackCola]

Rare: Random
Normal: Set in order

[kyori]

Give finder eh? You might as well just solo.

[AlMcFly]

Lol, I hate "Give Finder". You say you are not an item whore and that is much appreciated but the majority of "Giver Finders" very much are horders. There is nothing more disgusting looking than your group running up to a mob only to have everyone run around them to get the boxes behind. "Random" is ok but still not great. "Set Order" is the way to go. As long as you have a small party, you should still get a significant amount of money. ;P

[BloodDragoon]

agreed rare: random, normal: order is the best way to go
When its set to give finder it tends to attract loot whores and greedy players regardless of class that rush in stupidly and die ruining your S rank reward.

if you're getting shafted while running missions for money just PW it and solo, atleast then you get to keep everything that drops. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DoubleJG]

On 2006-11-04 15:37, SpishackCola wrote:
Rare: Random
Normal: Set in order




Agreed.

[Apathy]

On 2006-11-04 15:38, kyori wrote:
Give finder eh? You might as well just solo.



Agreed. When I want to farm and make money .. I go solo, lock the mission, and go to town. Unless one of my really cool friends just wants to come along to hang out with me (i send them the code via simple mail then) I consider material hunting to be a solo event. Otherwise.....

Rare: Random
Normal: In order

[Mystil]

The system is definitly flawed but it does rule out the Dare Devil Vacuum effect. Of course if you're always 60/60 on inventory like me, you wont get much anyway. I just hope you know what you're doing man. If it's just money you want that it'll benefit you but other items and you still might wanna consider other options.

[DrewSeleski]

On 2006-11-04 15:29, Zeta wrote:
Give Finder is evidently the only way I'll make ANY money or get ANY synthesis items.

Set Order sucks. Not only is money counted as an item, but I only ever get 1 out of every 6 items that drop. Not only this, but usually when it comes to my turn, I get shafted with a Dimate or something stupid like a Berry. Coupled with the fact I never get hit, so I don't even get the damn Mate because I'm full on them, which also skips my turn completely and rewards me with 1 out of 12 items. Plus, when new people join the group it seems to screw with the order and I get shafted even further if this setting is being used for Rares (which is idiotic might I add). As proof, I just did 3 Sleeping Warriors B runs, and got 11 synthesis materials and made just over 3000 meseta, which is including the 1000 we got after each of our 3 S Ranks.

Set random is even worse. For whatever reason, my luck sucks. I get even less here than on Set Order, and it'll be a cold day in Hell if I ever get money with this setting. I don't mid this setting so much on Rares, because they only show up every so often, but for regular items this sucks hardcore.

This leaves me with Give Finder. I like this option because, being a Hunter, I can get SOME money, and leave the rest for everyone else. IF I need a Mate, I can get one off the ground, and not be screwed out of the next 5 items. I see a synthesis material I need, I make a dash for it. If I don't get it, tough luck. At least I have a chance at the next one.

If you join my games, we'll be playing under Give Finder, and possibly Random Rares. I'm not the Hunter who's an Item Whore, I'm the Hunter who needs to be able to get money, and Give Finder seems to be the only way for me to do so. I don't vacuum up everything in sight, but I like having a chance at stuff, and not picking up an Inverter Circuit and having the idiot who's still a block behind yell out "What the hell is an Inverter Circuit?"

*Assumes battle position*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zeta on 2006-11-04 15:33 ]</font>

This is bias. You have the same chances as anyone else you just think you are getting shafted and remember the times when you did more. Try being an optimist instead of a pessimist and you'll think you are getting luckier instead. I don't see why the game would choose you in particular to screw over.

[SonicTMP]

I beleive we've had a very large topic on this already. The horse is undead by this point.

Simplest thing you can do. Play in games with give finder if you like it, or be the leader if you prefer and make those games yourself. The majority of the community tends to liek order/random. But their are games made for all so find one you like and enjoy.

[Jozon]

well, I'm just pissed when I solo a mob in a corner without anyone else as much as touching it, and when that relic edge drops, guess what, it goes to some random noob who just joined the party and wasn't kicked fast enough, that's the kind of bs I hate.

I prefer give finder, since I've seen rangers and forces do just as much item grabbing as anyone else, and atleast I won't be missing out on every freakin rare drop cuz I have no "random" luck, out of at least 20 rare drops on random, I've gotten zero, that's not anywhere near fair in my book, so I say screw it, give finder is the way to go

rares: give finder, normal: give finder, good 'ol PSO style ftw

[rustyray]

lol at first i was reading ur post and kind of getting upset. But the " *Assumes battle position* " you put at the end chilled me out and made me laugh. Hell your just a normal joe with a normal opinion and certainly not alone in what ur saying.

But here's my view on it. Set in order rocks. Random sucks. Give finder sucks. Wait!!! leme splain pls http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Ok, do we all agree that fair is cool? right lol what kind of ass would say fair isn't cool? Ok so its established that fair is cool. Fair certainly isn't achieved by everyone running around picking up as much as they can, so i would say that give finder blows. And it does. Because anyone who plays knows that in a give finder room, you must be a prick and pick as much up as u can to get anything in a room of people you don't know.

yes Random completely blows, because random is a casino where everyone always loses lol. My first party with random i ever had, i got 4 rares in a row.. the only 4 rares the whole mission. And it was awkward, but i enjoyed it because the same asshole picked up all 4 rares and watched them go to me, and proceeded to complain. So even though random has worked on my side, it still obviously isn't fair.

Set in order is the ONLY fair thing u can do. And if u get shafted by your results of a set in order mission, then play again and you could just as easily not be shafted the next time. It still has a base level of random, which any of the settings has, but in the long run, everyone getting an even number of items, rares, and money regardless of which item or rare, or how much money is still the best way for loot to be distributed fairly.

Those are all my opinions. And part of that opinion is that If i was to be in a Give finder room with someone who wouldn't want set in order, I would most likely lose my ass to them drop wise. The trend seems to be, whoever complains about set in order typically wants more. I am a nice guy in missions. I have manners, and attempt to rarely pick up items and money, and for people like me, the new loot settings are a godsend.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-04 16:19, DrewSeleski wrote:
This is bias. You have the same chances as anyone else you just think you are getting shafted and remember the times when you did more. Try being an optimist instead of a pessimist and you'll think you are getting luckier instead. I don't see why the game would choose you in particular to screw over.



I can't speak from someone else's experiences, only my own. My experiences show that Set Order and Random tend to shaft someone/some people in a group. Set Order has ONLY brought little to nothing to me; I'm not just exagerating a few incidents, each and every time I go into a Set Order/Random game I come back out with little to nothing more than I started with.

If it sounds biased, it is. I won't base my arguments on someone else's heresay. I have found in MY experience that Set Order is worse than Give Finder. At least with an Item Whore you can kick them and be done with it. With Set Order the Berries never stop.

And no, Item Whores are not exclusive to the Hunter class. I've seen plenty of Rangers and Forces standing beside enemies and boxes waiting to claim the spoils of my victory.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-04 16:51, rustyray wrote:
lol at first i was reading ur post and kind of getting upset. But the " *Assumes battle position* " you put at the end chilled me out and made me laugh. Hell your just a normal joe with a normal opinion and certainly not alone in what ur saying.

But here's my view on it. Set in order rocks. Random sucks. Give finder sucks. Wait!!! leme splain pls http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Ok, do we all agree that fair is cool? right lol what kind of ass would say fair isn't cool? Ok so its established that fair is cool. Fair certainly isn't achieved by everyone running around picking up as much as they can, so i would say that give finder blows. And it does. Because anyone who plays knows that in a give finder room, you must be a prick and pick as much up as u can to get anything in a room of people you don't know.

yes Random completely blows, because random is a casino where everyone always loses lol. My first party with random i ever had, i got 4 rares in a row.. the only 4 rares the whole mission. And it was awkward, but i enjoyed it because the same asshole picked up all 4 rares and watched them go to me, and proceeded to complain. So even though random has worked on my side, it still obviously isn't fair.

Set in order is the ONLY fair thing u can do. And if u get shafted by your results of a set in order mission, then play again and you could just as easily not be shafted the next time. It still has a base level of random, which any of the settings has, but in the long run, everyone getting an even number of items, rares, and money regardless of which item or rare, or how much money is still the best way for loot to be distributed fairly.

Those are all my opinions. And part of that opinion is that If i was to be in a Give finder room with someone who wouldn't want set in order, I would most likely lose my ass to them drop wise. The trend seems to be, whoever complains about set in order typically wants more. I am a nice guy in missions. I have manners, and attempt to rarely pick up items and money, and for people like me, the new loot settings are a godsend.



That's the problem, those settings AREN'T fair. In Set Order, you've no say in what you get. You're given it and that's all she wrote. In Random, it seems that the closer you are to the Party Leader the more likely you are to get something. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but Hunters very rarely stradle each other, and if the Leader is a Force or Ranger, they're sitting a safe distance away, or if the Leader is an Item Whore they're likely no where near me or the battle, which screws over everyone.

[PALRAPPYS]

I agree with you Zeta. Set order and random is very stupid. I won't join a group that has set order or random on.

*And by any dumb chance, do you happen to know a PSU player with the name of Chad something...??

[KiteWolfwood]

Well if you don't like that you are getting only 1/6 items then go solo. If you are soloing it doesn't matter what the loot rules are, you will get every item no matter what.

[Randomness]

Um... honestly, set order and random may seem stupid to hunters, but its very nice as force.
Every single force weapon causes you to stop when you use it, making it easy to steal stuff from boxes a force opened. Also, forces have LOW DEFENSE. Give Finder encourages people to run in and grab stuff. Not only does that increase the amount of damage people take, its VERY dangerous as a force. I have 440 HP at level 24. I am NOT going to be running into a crowd of enemies to grab some cash-its stupid, and far too dangerous.

[foamcup]

Ha ha, anyone who plays Give Finder is a noob. I hate loot whores. I see people going for stuff in my games while we all fight, and just say thanks for grabbing that for us. Don't like what you get, then go solo you whiny bitches.

[Phaze37]

On 2006-11-04 15:29, Zeta wrote:
but I only ever get 1 out of every 6 items that drop.

And this is a problem? In a 6 player party, you should not expect to get more than 1/6 of the items. If you think you should get more than 1/6 of the items in a 6 player party, you're just being greedy.

[BloodDragoon]

I play a hunter atm and I prefer set order/random because it helps keep people focused on the fact theres monsters roaming around rather than focusing on where and when an item drops so they can rush to it carelessly and die ruining an S rank finish. but thats just my 2 cents.

[PALRAPPYS]

On 2006-11-04 18:13, Randomness wrote:
Um... honestly, set order and random may seem stupid to hunters, but its very nice as force.
Every single force weapon causes you to stop when you use it, making it easy to steal stuff from boxes a force opened. Also, forces have LOW DEFENSE. Give Finder encourages people to run in and grab stuff. Not only does that increase the amount of damage people take, its VERY dangerous as a force. I have 440 HP at level 24. I am NOT going to be running into a crowd of enemies to grab some cash-its stupid, and far too dangerous.



Suuuuuuuure. I'm lv20 and run in there. Sorry if I sounded a little mean about that though.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-04 18:21, Phaze37 wrote:

On 2006-11-04 15:29, Zeta wrote:
but I only ever get 1 out of every 6 items that drop.

And this is a problem? In a 6 player party, you should not expect to get more than 1/6 of the items. If you think you should get more than 1/6 of the items in a 6 player party, you're just being greedy.



That'd be true if 3/6 (since we're playing with ratios) of the stuff that drop weren't Berries and monomates.

For all those telling me to solo;

How much fun is soloing in a PARTY BASED game?

[SailorDaravon]

On 2006-11-04 15:31, FenixStryk wrote:
Rare: Random and Normal: Set in Order is the only way to go.
Sure, you're not getting as much, but it prevents item whores entirely.
Sacrifices must be made to balance the classes and remove Hunter Item Whores, like you.



We should've just closed the thread after this post.

[BloodDragoon]

Soloing is as fun as you make it. When I solo farm I usually bring weapons to lvl up photon arts and bullets. Gotta love Yohmei's high PP ratings for that.

[McLaughlin]

See, the thing about a thread is, it shouldn't be locked after the first post to disagree with the initial post.

[Nukei]

I agree, but when it isn't set to: set in order or set random, I actually hesitate and go after the items without striking the enemies.

[Razorback]

whole heartly argees, i only read the first sentence

[Elleranda]

Set Order is the best way. Of course you don't get as much, but you get just as much as everyone else. One person doesn't get more than the other. >_>

[AeraLure]

I only play on Set to Order really. Random I suppose would be ok, but not as good in my book. Both over time average the drops out more fairly than Give to Finder. It may seem like Set to Order has a skewed priority in terms of rare distribution since it goes in order, but frankly, the next rare that drops is itself random, so if you're next up in line for a rare its going to be random anyway as to its value, its just that the benefit from Set to Order for rares over Random is that everyone will get just about the same amount of rares per run where Random, being what it is, can of course leave some out of that particular run's findings.

At any rate, playing non rares on Set to Order is perfect since that distribution will be fairly even per the number of players on the run. I agree wholeheartedly rare distribution should be either Set to Order or Random, with my preference on Set to Order.

The OP cant really think Give to Finder is more fair? How many games have you played in Give to Finder? The majority of those devolve into mad dashes for boxes and items in the middle of fights which is silly. In my original play circle in PSO we left all items on the ground until battle was completed. Not seeing that happen here at all in PSU once yet.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-04 19:33, Elleranda wrote:
Set Order is the best way. Of course you don't get as much, but you get just as much as everyone else. One person doesn't get more than the other. >_>



I don't think 5 berries equates to 200 meseta. It's even in the NUMBER of items you get, but not the value. So technically, some people DO get more than others on Set Order.

[BloodDragoon]

PSO had an easy abundance of money drops due to mass numbers of slotted armors selling for high amounts to the shop vendors which meant the only mad dashes were for the elusive red boxes. PSU cash is a little tougher to come buy since sell values for equipment are entirely nerfed when compared to PSO. This is leading more ppl to prioritize snatching items off the ground instead of killing the 4-5 annoying blue robots shooting fireballs at you...

The drop rate and physical distribution doesn't seem to be the OP's issue with the order/random system. It seems more like nitpicking and the whole complaint of "This person got something better than me."

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-04 20:14, BloodDragoon wrote:
The drop rate and physical distribution doesn't seem to be the OP's issue with the order/random system. It seems more like nitpicking and the whole complaint of "This person got something better than me."



Actually, I'm just irritated knowing everytime I check my inventory there's either nothing there or another Berry/monomate board

[vitius137]

personally, I use

Rare: random (or in order)
Normal: give finder

I find that give finder is better for normal items because that way you can get the items you need and not random crap.
My parties usually do not hog items (save for maybe one person) and we pick up items that we need.

[Zakuro]

While it is true that not all items are of equal value, at least everyone is getting something. I was in a group once with my ranger and I barely even had a chance to see what dropped before one of the 3 or 4 hunters in the game picked it up. While it is true I could go in melee range and try for drops myself, unless a mob comes to me I'm usually busy moving around trying to spread status effects on as many mobs as I can.

As for drops when soloing a mob going to someone else, I don't really think it is a problem unless everyone else in the game is goofing off or not helping in any way. There isn't really any reason to go off solo in a team game, especially since you can easily lock a game if you want to solo. Even if they weren't there at that precise kill, chances are they were doing something else productive so have every right to drops that you do. I can understand being upset if it went to someone who just joined and hasn't helped at all, but the chances of someone joining moments before a rare drops and is picked up seems rather unlikely.

So far I've been mainly joining games based on the number in them and what classes were in it over the loot system used. While I may not get many or any items occassionally, it isn't every game and if I really am trying for money I'll just solo or duo with my NPC trainer in a locked room. None of my characters are that high though and I solo at least the first 5 levels which helps build up some starting cash, so maybe it'll change in the future. In the rare times I do start my own public game (only once so far, usually prefer to join one) I do use rares-random, other-in order though.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Give finder?

What is this, PSO?

[Zio]

In groups with close friends, just do give finder. I'll usually split up drops with whoever else i'm playing with.

[VanHalen]

i always wondered why didnt sega by now make a who ever kills it gets it function and if the person doesnt want it you have to wait 20 seconds until anyone can have it

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2006-11-04 21:06, VanHalen wrote:
i always wondered why didnt sega by now make a who ever kills it gets it function and if the person doesnt want it you have to wait 20 seconds until anyone can have it


because then roces wouldnt kill you and rangers being now lower damage would be shafted, yet both of those are just as important as a hunter. A completely fair item distribution setting is impossible.

[VanHalen]

On 2006-11-04 21:08, Silver_Wyrm wrote:

On 2006-11-04 21:06, VanHalen wrote:
i always wondered why didnt sega by now make a who ever kills it gets it function and if the person doesnt want it you have to wait 20 seconds until anyone can have it


because then roces wouldnt kill you and rangers being now lower damage would be shafted, yet both of those are just as important as a hunter. A completely fair item distribution setting is impossible.



never thought about it that way. i wouldnt say impossible there must be some way

[illstyle]

I'd rather play the game then worry about racing for loot. so what if you have some bad runs where you only get the crappy items. it evens out over time and lets you concentrate on the and have the peace of mind of no one hogging items.

the other option is for me to not heal you and instead run in and get my 1/6th of the loot.

[PMB960]

Well I only really play with my friends. Since he just started today I let him get whatever mates and other stuff he wants while I take the good rares. I usually only play with friends and only once have I played with a large party so I usually just use give finder. If I really start to run into trouble with people being item hogs then I might use set order. I am not a high level yet and only play C-rank missions so it doesn't really matter for me yet.

[Caydence]

loot hog imo.

[b3n]

I found a dragon tail, picked it up and it went to the squad leader :/

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm more of a money whore than an item whore. but yeah, I play in whatever.

[CypherErebus]

Money (meseta) isn't counted as an item. In case it hasn't been pointed out

[McLaughlin]

Yeah it is. go play a game that isn't on Give Finder and pick up some money.

Believe me, it's counted as an item.

[SailorDaravon]

Meseta is counted as a normal item.

[SaviorSe1f]

I usually play finder if I set a non-password game, only because if I'm partying, I don't really care about picking up items, I'm partying to level up quick. If I'm really trying to get items, I solo. So, item-whores, come abuse my generousity!

[Integration]

I must say that I love the more fair item distribution is PSU. I basically wont play in a game thats give finder, cause I hate actually having to worry about putting myself in a good position so when the enemy dies ill get its item. It makes the game into a contest to see who can push X the fastest or whose connection is faster. I hate playing in games where because of the fact im a Force, I will only get the meseta granted in the mission reward. You want to talk about unfair?

[bleyzwun]

set order really is the way to go. of course someone is going to get shafted once in a while but everyone has their days too. Basically give finder is going to leave someone in the party with crap loot too. at least set order gives everyone a fair chance at finding something good.

[KirinDave]

I don't get it. You say, "I don't get much in groups without give finder." For a normal mission, there just isn't that much loot that drops in the first place. 1/6th of that is barely anything at all. If items are split fairly, you shouldn't get much.

At the same time, if you are getting a lot of stuff from this very limited pool of items then you're giving someone else absolutely nothing.

You do not group in PSU for phat lewt. You group for experience, mission points, and content clearing. With a good group composed of your friends, there will be some loot, but it isn't the primary incentive for grouping (at least in the A B and C's I've seen so far).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-11-04 22:32 ]</font>

[-Crokar-]

i hate random i hate set in order. so i only solo. i dont care to get screwed over the whole time i play the game with a group so i solo.

[happy_cricket]

LOL @ hunter who is all ticked off because he has to share items with the Forces who keep him alive.

[McLaughlin]

That'd be true, but I pull more than my own weight. I don't need to rely on the Force, and I'm not complaining about sharing.

Reading comprehension, you lack.

[happy_cricket]

That's what they all say. The attitude Forces have against Hunters did not occur in a vacuum sir.

[Aberu]

You say your not an item whore but you say that you are barely getting any items in comparison to give finder games. Hrmmm. I wonder why. Maybe it's because you actually were an item whore http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif.

[McLaughlin]

If you think about it, Hunters keep the Forces alive. It's not like the Forces can take a hit.

Play 5 games straight and come out worse off than when you started, and then come back here.

[Garnet_Moon]

My name is Uragirimono, and I have an Item Whore problem. I suppose it's a good thing that I strictly join parties that are Rare:Random and Normal:Line then. As for the Meseta, I am now content with the mission reward. I only grab about 200-500 meseta to cover the recharge on my weapons just before the boss door, and that's all. The rest is for whoever gets to it first.

It's always hilarious though when every single rare goes to the same person in a run. Especially when two crea saber boards drop. lol

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-04 23:07 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-04 22:58, Aberu wrote:
You say your not an item whore but you say that you are barely getting any items in comparison to give finder games. Hrmmm. I wonder why. Maybe it's because you actually were an item whore http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif.



No, what I said was, I get Berries and monomate boards when I play in Set Order, and in Give Finder games I get money, because I actually have a chance at getting some instead of being shafted every time it comes around to my turn.

Yeah, I'll pick up whatever I kill happens to drop, but that's very different from running across the screen to grab a box/steal an item.

[-Crokar-]

im a hunter i have played with 1 force the entire time ive played the game and that was my brother. but i always seem to get nothing when i play. and well when your trying to level and save money for better weapons you want to play with groups and not get screwed out of items.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-04 23:07, Zeta wrote:

On 2006-11-04 22:58, Aberu wrote:
You say your not an item whore but you say that you are barely getting any items in comparison to give finder games. Hrmmm. I wonder why. Maybe it's because you actually were an item whore http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif.



No, what I said was, I get Berries and monomate boards when I play in Set Order, and in Give Finder games I get money, because I actually have a chance at getting some instead of being shafted every time it comes around to my turn.

Yeah, I'll pick up whatever I kill happens to drop, but that's very different from running across the screen to grab a box/steal an item.


I didn't know meseta was anything but "finders keepers". I thought only items where? If you mean to sell all those synth items then shame on you. Gimme the Par Ash, Soldonium and Marseline at a discount and then it's fine.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-04 23:10 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

No its called teamwork. 1 class does not babysit the other. They work together to achieve the final goal. Most forces that join my parties tend to be on top of healing while freezing enemies in place with barta techs. This pretty much eliminates any need to use items on my part so I can focus totally on chopping things apart while they nuke. End result we get our S rank victory alot faster with no item expendature which makes a difference on temple runs. (Yeah those blue mecha that shoot fireballs are my least favorite enemy in the game now lol) In parties like this we usually stick around and do multiple runs which amounts to nice xp gain for time invested while making some money on the side. (Tho eventually every mate dropped ends up staying on the ground because ppl max the stack limit.)

[Pengfishh]

Oh god. We did this yesterday.

[James2006]

Everyone seems to think that they get shafted out of rares in random just because they didn't get one they picked up. Eventually, random will even itself out and you will get just as many rares from other people. When you have give finder there is always someone that stops attacking right before the creature dies to pick up the loot or just waits for the creature to die from others attacks to steal the loot. Give finder also promotes box standoffs and all around inefficient playing. The random and set order is not going to shaft you personally and will eventually work out equally for everyone.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

If you want loot, you solo, grouping is for quick money and exp and not loot

[Miller]

PSU demands equal work for an equal share of the loot? *Gets torch* Damm you sega for not letting the Shoemar kids get their uber loots for just being upfront.

[Cross]

On 2006-11-04 23:07, Zeta wrote:
No, what I said was, I get Berries and monomate boards when I play in Set Order, and in Give Finder games I get money, because I actually have a chance at getting some instead of being shafted every time it comes around to my turn.

Yeah, I'll pick up whatever I kill happens to drop, but that's very different from running across the screen to grab a box/steal an item.



And the reason what you're saying is retarded is: Everybody gets Berries and Monomate Boards in Set Order. Everybody has the same chance of getting every Monomate that drops, and everybody has the same chance of getting the far-more-common Berries and Boards. Everybody has the same chance of picking up meseta, everybody has the same chance of picking up weapon drops, everybody has the same chance of picking up a Nanocarbon, everybody has the same chance of picking up a rare.
In a full party, that chance is 1/6. You're not getting any more or any less items than anybody else, and everybody else is getting the same total value in drops over time. But you want more than 1/6 (this is exactly hat you've said), and that is the textbook definition of an item whore.

If you're getting more value out of drops in Give Finder than Set in Order or Random, that means that you're taking away value out of drops from other people in your party, and that's pretty much the same thing as making a mad dash toward the boxes.


Either
1) Take your fair share
2) Play in parties that aren't full so you get more than 1/6 (your fair share in a full party) of items per mission
3) Solo

Don't be a gigantic dick and take things that should belong to other people just because you think you deserve them more. (Hint: You don't)



Edit: Just for the record, since this is tangentially related and a few people have mentioned it: Random is just ever-so-slightly more fair than Set in Order. They're both perfectly fine distribution methods, but I just figured I'd get that out there.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-11-05 02:40 ]</font>

[mananas]

Someone said in another thread that the rare order is independent from the normal item order... but it seems to more it's more like in a random order, because in every party I start or start in the rares never go in the order the people join... what do you guys think?

[Alpha-Hunter]

see, the problem is people who are too concerned with what they get and that don't care at all what others get. as a hunter I do come out better than most in finder, but I know that more people get shafted that way. in set order/random sure someone will get a little less sometimes, but I guarentee that it's less shafting for an entire group than finder. all in all none of the setting are entirely fair but it really is obvious to anyone not caring only for themselves (new culture people, this is not PSO) that random/order is 'MORE' fair than finder, yet not totally fair. rare:random None: set is really as perfect as you're going to get.

[xTATANTULAx]

If you're paying attention to what items you get when its your turn you are:

a) Playing this game too much
b) in need of relaxation...seriously

[Scuri]

If you don't like random or ordered loot, then don't join the f'n party. Enough said.

What is there to bitch about if you joined parties set up with rules you don't like? No parties set up the way you want? Then start your own. Or solo. There ARE options.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Scuri on 2006-11-05 06:19 ]</font>

[Mystil]

How about ride it out til your strength/level has exceeded the monsters strength/level to the point of safe passage without mate bombing and just solo for whatever drops you're hoping to find. Exscavation will be huge in this game because of so many useful drops.

[Sev]

The easiest thing to do really, is to just solo. You could even duo if you wanted to, or call your NPC in and trio. Just find someone you don't mind sharing drops with, and maybe come to an agreement as far as synthesis items go.

I know what you mean, I've partied even with friends that know I synth, and they'll go and sell items that I could've used to make something. And they'll actually ask me for stuff later, but I won't give them anything unless they come with some mats anymore, or unless they plan on returning my item soon.

The whole of it is that life isn't fair. Shit happens, you get over it as time passes. You can rant about it if you like, but you know as well as anyone else that it won't change the problem that you're having. Hopefully you can get some better luck with this order in time, or you could just switch over to Give Finder games, because there's still alot of them around. Personally though, I just solo farm Relics when I want some money, and I take my NPC with me to make it go faster. I get all the drops, and of course since I can normally find 1 Nanocarbon per run in Relics, I sometimes come out with a good bit of money by the end. That's just my strategy though, can't say that it'll work for you too.

I don't think you're greedy really. After getting nothing but crap items, who wouldn't wanna say somethin?

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-05 06:03, xTATANTULAx wrote:
If you're paying attention to what items you get when its your turn you are:

a) Playing this game too much
b) in need of relaxation...seriously



When the 5th page of your inventory stays blank save a couple monomate boards and berries, you tend to notice you being screwed over.

[drmcst45]

Hey guess what?

I'm a force and my internet connection is not the best (yeah, i lag!). Basically I have no ***** chance in hell to pick up a item because all you hunters on cable just got

WHOOOP!

WHOOOP!

WHOOOP!!!!

all the way to the endzone....

[Shanira]

Order/Random will statistically over time give everyone roughly the exact same spread of items assuming they have run the same missions.

Fact.

[_Deliverance_]

On 2006-11-04 15:31, FenixStryk wrote:
Rare: Random and Normal: Set in Order is the only way to go.
Sure, you're not getting as much, but it prevents item whores entirely.
Sacrifices must be made to balance the classes and remove Hunter Item Whores, like you.



Well said.

[Wickerman]

The only players who don't like the random/in order setup are greedy little bitches who go around picking up items instead of being a team player and helping kill the monsters first.

[McLaughlin]

I forbid anyone from posting unless they've actually read more than the title.

[Shanira]

On 2006-11-05 09:40, Zeta wrote:
I forbid anyone from posting unless they've actually read more than the title.
Your entire first post is based on a huge logical fallacy though. You are entirely ignoring the Law of Averages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages). If your point was that you prefer to get money drops and leave item drops to others, your logic would be valid, however you start by complaining that with order/random you get no money or items.

And thus the logical fallacy comes in.

[James2006]

Well if they have only read the title they will not have seen that last post Zeta and won't know that you have forbid them from posting.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: James2006 on 2006-11-05 09:45 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-05 09:44, Shanira wrote:

On 2006-11-05 09:40, Zeta wrote:
I forbid anyone from posting unless they've actually read more than the title.
Your entire first post is based on a huge logical fallacy though. You are entirely ignoring the Law of Averages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages). If your point was that you prefer to get money drops and leave item drops to others, your logic would be valid, however you start by complaining that with order/random you get no money or items.

And thus the logical fallacy comes in.



How can my personal experience be a fallacy? I am also perfectly aware of the Law of Averages, and if you are too, you know that it IS statistically possible to be shafted every time (although that's a seriously small probability)

And yeah, they'll ignore my post, but at least I can say I warned them before the Mods delete the post.

[Parn]

On 2006-11-05 09:49, Zeta wrote:
How can my personal experience be a fallacy? I am also perfectly aware of the Law of Averages, and if you are too, you know that it IS statistically possible to be shafted every time (although that's a seriously small probability)
So your solution is to select a loot setting where it is still statistically possible to be shafted every time by other hunters in the party, and leaving forces and rangers out to hang and dry unless they concentrate less on playing their classes properly and more on trying to get ANY items in a group of greedy hunters?

[McLaughlin]

No, my solution is to solo, because (like I said) Give Finder is the only way I get anything other than things used in "a wide variety of drugs".

In Give Finder, I have a CHANCE to get something I find. I kick Hunters who kill boxes instead of Monsters.

I need a Mod to come and lock this. I give up.

[Ryogen]

This is why you can "play by yourself".

[Tystys]

On 2006-11-04 15:38, BloodDragoon wrote:
agreed rare: random, normal: order is the best way to go
When its set to give finder it tends to attract loot whores and greedy players regardless of class that rush in stupidly and die ruining your S rank reward.

if you're getting shafted while running missions for money just PW it and solo, atleast then you get to keep everything that drops. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Who are the people you play with for this to happen? I know it wasn't retail but back in the 360 beta, we just set it on Give Finder and items were given pretty equally if you asked me. No one complained that is http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[_Deliverance_]

Zeta, come on....You just said that if Forces don't like "Give finder", that they can go solo. What about you going out to solo?

[McLaughlin]

Where did I say Forces could go solo? Please quote it, because I was half asleep last night when I was posting, and I don't remember saying something hypocritical like that.

[Ryogen]

On 2006-11-05 10:22, _Deliverance_ wrote:
Zeta, come on....You just said that if Forces don't like "Give finder", that they can go solo. What about you going out to solo?



My point exactly. If you don't play even and fair on items in a party then just play by yourself. People are not objects in a mission just to get what another person wants. If your looking for somthing but want give to finder, play by yourself. I know if someone looted all the items including somthing like relics edge from you, you would be mad.

[peenk]

Zeta wrote:
Coupled with the fact I never get hit, so I don't even get the damn Mate because I'm full on them,


Zeta wrote:
I like this option because, being a Hunter,


Thats kinda threw me off at first but then I thought that there are forces in your party healing you yes? Cause I run through mates pretty steady as a hunter.

In any case here is what I suggest:
Use the groups as a straight xp runs and try not to worry about items drops for synth. Not getting rares sux but synth?
As a hunter I found its very easy to SOLO ANY runs around your lvl and or killing stuff 5 levels below you. If you take NPC with you its even faster cause he takes some attention off of you. Its great money and you get ALL the synth/rare items.

Buy the synth item converters, the boards that make a 2 star material into 3 star and so forth. Its a great great great way to get rid of useless lvl 1-3 materials and save a CRAP load of money on lvl 4-5 materials.

Hope this helps.

coughpost150cough


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: peenk on 2006-11-05 10:32 ]</font>

[Kano-Okami]

Peenk seems to be on top of things..although it sounds like alot of these hunters have distorted logic to me, too.

Soloing is the best way to get rares if thats the only thing your after. It's been that way since PSO.
I still can't see why everyone seems deadset against the random pick-up setting when grouping up with a team, though.
Is everyone that greedy of a bastard?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kano-Okami on 2006-11-05 10:35 ]</font>

[Viera]

Just join the game with the loot preferences that you like. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif No need to argue about it. There's something for everyone out there...

What I do is if I'm more concerned about item farming, I solo with my PMbot and TutorialNPC. If I'm more focused on Meseta and Exp, I do relic and dragon runs.

[daylight129]

I believe I have a 13-14 page topic of this that you could just continue, rather than cluttering the forum with more agumenative material.

[BydoEmpire]

It would be nice to see Sega default to Set Order/Random. I think a lot of newbies aren't really aware of what it means, or that the setting is there. Since I see 90% Give Finder games.