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View Full Version : Forces, underpowered?



Nestahima
Nov 5, 2006, 07:39 AM
At first I believed that Forces were overpowered. Casting Diga for insane amounts of damage was fun. This was before I realized that my Hunter (and especially my Ranger) could do more damage in the time it took me to cast that single Diga. This furthers when I switch to Barta/Zonde. Sure, these spells have a long range and go through enemies, but they don't do any damage.

Hopefully, I'm not the only one who feels like this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

cobfab
Nov 5, 2006, 07:42 AM
Probably not their weakness.

Nukei
Nov 5, 2006, 07:50 AM
I saw this too, but as a force you can HEAL! Which means you do not need monomates.

Xx3of19xX
Nov 5, 2006, 08:08 AM
Forces are going to get a more support role later on when the buffs and debuffs are being released I guess. Forces might not be able to output the raw numbers Hunters do later on, but you don't want to play without their support in later stages.
Also there are still some more attack spells coming out Gi- and Nosu-line along with the entire Megid family.

LocGaw
Nov 5, 2006, 08:19 AM
I don't think there is a power gap. Most of the time it is Visk or me pulling hate. Or it seems that way.

Ie. De Ragon turns toward me and walks over, ignoring the hunters... Or Random mobs will turn away from Hunters and Rangers headed straight for me...

TheStoicOne
Nov 5, 2006, 08:20 AM
but think.....diga does all of that damage in one hit...

Arias
Nov 5, 2006, 08:33 AM
It's teh coolness http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Nukei
Nov 5, 2006, 08:33 AM
But it also takes aiming >.o and Diga is a slow attack too.

Merumeru
Nov 5, 2006, 09:18 AM
XD eh, i dont find myself minding too much, after all, we're safe from damage and-OMG RESTA FREE MONOMATES~~~:D

AC9breaker
Nov 5, 2006, 09:21 AM
Just do what I do, tell everyone you forgot to buy Resta, spam your Ra techs as much as possible so that you can level them up and look at all the sparkly color effects do lots of sparkly big numbers!

Scuri
Nov 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
Your damage is solid now with your ability to heal. You can't have the best or tied with best damage and still have sole ability to buff/cure. I think classes are balanced pretty well now. If anything, ranger is the one that's weakest, not Force.

Mystil
Nov 5, 2006, 09:36 AM
I *nearly* soloed the B rank mission at the colony with my force class. Foie was doing 80-90 damage to the monsters. PP drain no doubt but a good indication that thier technics are far from underpowered.

Ranger isn't so weak. As with PSO, I still find myself struggling to compete for kills with a ranger in party. They are killing machines.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2006-11-05 06:38 ]</font>

Evolution
Nov 5, 2006, 09:39 AM
Yeah thats also one of the things i've noticed playing as a force, you can solo a lot easier as a force than you can with other classes.

Sexy_Raine
Nov 5, 2006, 09:42 AM
I let the hunters do most of the attacks while I do the healing. Besides, I enjoy taking the backseat, I don't have to take much damage.

FenixStryk
Nov 5, 2006, 09:42 AM
Forces are overpowered. They do the damage Hunters do at the range Rangers shoot at. Add in the free heals and buffs... not much more to ask for.

Dre_o
Nov 5, 2006, 09:51 AM
On 2006-11-05 06:42, FenixStryk wrote:
Forces are overpowered. They do the damage Hunters do at the range Rangers shoot at. Add in the free heals and buffs... not much more to ask for.



Except spending excessive amounts of money on higher difficulty missions just to KEEP DOING that damage. Not to mention only Techs like Diga (single hit) do the most damage.

Scuri
Nov 5, 2006, 10:05 AM
Eh, I'm a hunter, level 31. I have a multitude of weapons that cost a ton of mst to buy. I also regularily spend 100-150 mst every photon recharger when doing missions above my level. It's not just Forces that drop mst at the photon recharges.

Dj_SkyEpic
Nov 5, 2006, 10:14 AM
Its the location. Such as if you were to be playing in Mainia A ( Temple A, or Robots A) then the forces are the ones that are recommended for that area for the monster's lightening and fire weaknesses. I see hunters doing below 100 every single attack on a monster while a single strike of zonde does 400-500 + hitting multiple targets.

FenixStryk
Nov 5, 2006, 10:19 AM
On 2006-11-05 06:51, Dre_o wrote:

On 2006-11-05 06:42, FenixStryk wrote:
Forces are overpowered. They do the damage Hunters do at the range Rangers shoot at. Add in the free heals and buffs... not much more to ask for.Except spending excessive amounts of money on higher difficulty missions just to KEEP DOING that damage. Not to mention only Techs like Diga (single hit) do the most damage.Stop being so spoiled and oblivious. You act like Forces have it bad or something, when Rangers do LESS damage and still spend MORE PP. YOu should be grateful, not greedy.

Nestahima
Nov 5, 2006, 10:32 AM
Actually, my Ranger uses a +6 grinded 2k mesta rifle and does more damage than my same level force. Diga hits harder than the rifles shot (95 rifle hit compared to 150 diga hit) but I can get 2-3 rifle hits off during that time. Yes, it costs more, but it is also faster.

Angelraziel
Nov 5, 2006, 10:49 AM
Forces arent underpowered imo. I've been solo'n the Linear Line B rank mission since i was lv 5 force. hunters would have a pretty hard time with thatBut ya, cant be the best DD and the only debuff/buffer AND healer. It would be too cheap!

pso123hrf
Nov 5, 2006, 11:05 AM
I agree that hunters do more damage than a force does.

I took my newman force to do relic C runs, and did about 90 damage with lvl 5 barta/zonde, 191 damage with lvl 6 foie, and 210 damage with diga to the small enemies.

To the huge mini boss (not the guy with the sword), i do 290+ damage with diga because he is thunder element.

EDIT: I took my lvl 6 hunter to do relic C runs, and i did about 60 damage with ice daggers, 70 with dark spear and dark twin sabers, 50+ to the huge thunder mini boss with earth twin sabers and earth fists.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pso123hrf on 2006-11-05 08:12 ]</font>

Nukei
Nov 5, 2006, 11:06 AM
I never run out of PP, and I always recharge it before the end of the mission. (My PP never gets below 500)

HatMaster
Nov 5, 2006, 11:14 AM
Forces: We make things dead.

Seriously, we're not underpowered. The damage is mostly balanced, it's just a matter of how you prefer to dish it out. Me, I prefer to sit back, toss out my pretty spells and do damage while at the same time freezing/paralyzing/silencing/burning my opponents. And I get my Resta in case I'm in a tough spot. And, when dealing with bosses, I get to chill in the back and deal a lot of damage with Diga without having to be anywhere NEAR the boss' attack radius. In fact, the only time I get hurt is if I need to run in to heal someone.

Shanira
Nov 5, 2006, 11:46 AM
Forces do burst damage.
Hunters do damage over time.
Rangers do elemental damage.

So far it looks balanced aside from the fact that hunters are a lot cheaper off in the PA department than rangers. (and possibly forces too)

Trinacepti
Nov 5, 2006, 11:51 AM
I generally do fairly comparable damage to the other classes.

Diablohead
Nov 5, 2006, 11:53 AM
Remember that not every class in psu can solo the same as another, hunter for instance can solo better then a force, that imo can solo better then a ranger.

RadiantLegend
Nov 5, 2006, 11:54 AM
The forces i play with kill almost everything before i can lay a hand on them. 400+ dmg..... o.o

Genobee
Nov 5, 2006, 11:54 AM
thats why I'm a beast so I can make up for damage with nanblasts on my hunter.

_Deliverance_
Nov 5, 2006, 12:15 PM
Who cares. If Hunters are killing things too fast for you to tag, they're too high for the mission that you're on, or you're simply too slow.

Drop a few ra-spells, then run around and work on leveling what ever tech it is that you need to level.

If you want more damage, then pick another job. Sure we can deal heavy damage, but that is not the point of a Force. Of that, I'm sure.

It's about being party support. I run in and drop a few ra-spells, which make the HU and RA jobs have an easier time of mowing down the mobs. I will Resta and Reverser before I try to kill a mob. Party efficiency is more important than dealing my damage.

XCOPY
Nov 5, 2006, 12:55 PM
I'd say it's the other way around, especially after using the Gi spells offline. Those spells are awesome now. Without even leveling up...Gidiga was already doing absurd amounts of damage to MULTIPLE enemies all around. It also seems like a FOnewm can take a hit much better than back in the PSO days. In my opinion, the FOnewm and the beast hunter are the best characters in the game, easily.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XCOPY on 2006-11-05 09:56 ]</font>

Spellbinder
Nov 5, 2006, 12:59 PM
On 2006-11-05 07:05, Scuri wrote:
Eh, I'm a hunter, level 31. I have a multitude of weapons that cost a ton of mst to buy. I also regularily spend 100-150 mst every photon recharger when doing missions above my level. It's not just Forces that drop mst at the photon recharges.



Hehe you should see at the higher levels. At level 60, my force spends at minimum 1300 meseta recharging after a good mission, but I'd imagine everyone is by then.

Kano-Okami
Nov 5, 2006, 01:07 PM
I never felt that way about my force.
While it does take longer to cast a decent attack then it does to melee (especially using a rod), you don't risk the chance of taking a direct hit from most enemies (without projectiles). And the fact that fewer moves take down bigger baddies does put a smile on my face. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Randomness
Nov 5, 2006, 01:15 PM
Forces CAN be outdamaged a bit, but they are far better at picking on weaknesses, and they can heal. On Neudaiz, Reverser is AMAZING.

Itsuki
Nov 5, 2006, 01:58 PM
You also have to think that most of you have only experienced early game so far. As you get further into late game, you have to realize that your rifle isn't going to be gaining much more ATP while your the FO's TP is going to continue and continue to get higher and higher.

Once you hit the 40s and 50s, theres no way in hell a ranger could dream of dealing as much as a FO. The FO could be walking around with C-rank weapons and the Ranger with A rank and the FO would still outdamage.

Zakuro
Nov 5, 2006, 02:46 PM
It'll also help Forces once more techs of the same element are available. Having a 12% boost to (Gi)Diga and (Gi)Foie will likely add a lot of damage, especially on a FOnewearl at high levels. I also think the Gi series of techs have a higher hit total than Hunter weapons, sword seem capped at 3, although not sure about axes.

I think once more is open it'll depend a lot on how you have your techs set up on who will end up dealing the most damage between Force and a Hunter, as well as how you play. I also think if you are trying specifically for getting a S rank or not. I'd probably go heavier on healing if going for S rank than if we are just playing for fun/challenge.

Elleranda
Nov 5, 2006, 02:47 PM
All forces I've met have giggled about their "godly powers"...

entropyboy
Nov 5, 2006, 02:55 PM
i am not sure what all the forces were doing in PSO, but apparently none of them knew how to play, because everything i hear about forces in PSU is build on incorrect assumptions.

and if you cant keep people healed/antied -and- nuke, quit playing force now please

Pandatron
Nov 5, 2006, 03:23 PM
There kind of imbetween in my opinion. I mean i'm a bit lower lvl then everyone else so i have trouble out damaging lvl: 35-40 characters when im' 29 which is understandable. I think as a force we do enough damage to get a decent tag and in some situtions we can just pwn things for free. Though after doing some B rank Groove i find myself doing more support than anything. Like i hit my tags on each enemy then end up running healing and reversering for the remainder of the fight while randomly whipping out the bow to pump out damage to help.

Mikaga
Nov 5, 2006, 03:35 PM
The "healing" abilities shouldn't be used as a reason to make Forces deal less damage. The cost for that is that a Force (particularly those cookie-cutter Newman ones) are far easier to die as. Beast Hunters and Cast Rangers can take more hits, stronger hits and (notably) more lag, and come out standing. That's one of the perks they "forget" to mention a lot.

Also, given the "heal me now bitch" mentality of many Hunters and Rangers even today, things will only get worse when the real support techs (apparently Shifta, Deband, Jellen, Zalure, Megistar and the TP/MST and ATA/EVA buff/debuffs) are released. Many inept Hunters and Rangers are going go make experienced Force's lives a complete misery with their ridiculous demands, and that pain alone deserves some reward in the form of passable damage output. That statement may sound silly, but think about it - if Forces did atrocious damage (see: PSO) then all they could be would be Resta whores and support tech casters. And then nobody would play them.

Elleranda
Nov 5, 2006, 03:36 PM
Alls I know is, I tried playing a force and got bored because of how easy it was.

Yoruichi
Nov 5, 2006, 03:53 PM
Comparing my spoiled force to my hunter who had to earn everything...seems nice at first but Force just comes out a normal par class to me. Aiming nukes, wasting PP missing(carry quite a few wands so its not an issue, still anoying) and of course people who play like berserkers so you have to heal them constantly. Damage comparasion I really can't, compared to other forces who nuke for like 500-600 on a single, I do that in two swings if I use the right element with a 3 star lance. If I would use a proper elemental grinded halbert(5star), I could get close to those numbers without even critting.

Its all speculation though, I have no clue what the forces I play with use. They may not go for that extra 4% more damage, they may not use haj staves, and they may not have capped spells.

Reeve
Nov 5, 2006, 04:00 PM
On 2006-11-05 12:35, Mikaga wrote:
The "healing" abilities shouldn't be used as a reason to make Forces deal less damage. The cost for that is that a Force (particularly those cookie-cutter Newman ones) are far easier to die as. Beast Hunters and Cast Rangers can take more hits, stronger hits and (notably) more lag, and come out standing. That's one of the perks they "forget" to mention a lot.


yet on the flip side of that a hunter gets his face smashed in on a regular basis and has to eat short range enemy aoes so their survivability is probably the lowest overall

ranger is probably the most 'survivable' class

and your so called glass cannon force is sitting at the back all the time and if he/she does manage to get hit all they have to do is use resta (i havent seen any points in this game where a force died within a few shots unless they were very underlevelled)

also remember that while you can nuke for minutes at a time with spells a hunter can only go full out for about 30 seconds before his weapon is drained dry then its just back to the standard attack and a hunter just doing that is no match for a force

HatMaster
Nov 5, 2006, 04:01 PM
On a side note, why are we worrying so much about how much damage Forces do, when it's clear that it's more than enough to help make things dead and complete a mission well? :

Yoruichi
Nov 5, 2006, 04:06 PM
Well watching the movies of JP beta, looks like on S rank missions forces will be healing 7times more than nuking if not getting 1 shot by mobs.

Minswune
Nov 5, 2006, 04:18 PM
Skipped through page two of the topic, but~

Forces imo, are not off balance, whether weaker or stronger. Our overall damage numbers are sub par of hunters, and we attack slower than rangers, however; We can heal (this has been said often.), we can hit several mobs at once with proper spells, 5x mob + barta = omgwtfhax, sure, you'll only hit for about 50-75% the damage of diga, but 50-75% x2 or more mobs = higher dmg. Not to mention, we can also slap around status effects as needed, and have a high damage ranged weapon for flying/high mst mobs. (200 dmg/shot to the A de ragan at lv 40 as a fonewearl = <3)

Cause_I_Own_U
Nov 5, 2006, 04:29 PM
Hunters better be cheaper at PP consumption, they are the ones who have to buy all these dimates and monomates...not rangers or forces


Why do forces th ink they should have hunter like damage, when tehy also have crap loads of other things hunters dont have, like side effects and healing and buffs?

Get real, today's games need balance, there should be no I win class.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-05 13:30 ]</font>

Xx3of19xX
Nov 5, 2006, 05:06 PM
True, but Force Technics are a lot slower to cast than say, Rifle shots. Especially when you use a Rod, it is about as slow as Sword attacks.

Nestahima
Nov 5, 2006, 05:46 PM
On 2006-11-05 14:06, Xx3of19xX wrote:
True, but Force Technics are a lot slower to cast than say, Rifle shots. Especially when you use a Rod, it is about as slow as Sword attacks.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif That, is what I was trying to point out. I wonder when we're going to get the new spells. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Yoruichi
Nov 5, 2006, 05:47 PM
On 2006-11-05 14:06, Xx3of19xX wrote:
True, but Force Technics are a lot slower to cast than say, Rifle shots. Especially when you use a Rod, it is about as slow as Sword attacks.



Chaining PA's to certain sword swings gives you nice burst damage killing off the slow swinging speed till your next combo.

Tetsuro
Nov 5, 2006, 05:47 PM
Why do forces th ink they should have hunter like damage, when tehy also have crap loads of other things hunters dont have

You mean like the grand total of 2 weapon catagories that can cast spells, and a bow. Wow we get crap loads of stuff hunters don't get. I can't wait till' fortetecher so I can have 1 more category of weapons to choose from!

In all seriousness, when you think about it, it does even out. Hunters can choose from a crap load of weapons, forces can choose from a crap load of spells.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tetsuro on 2006-11-05 14:51 ]</font>

Yoruichi
Nov 5, 2006, 05:51 PM
On 2006-11-05 14:47, Tetsuro wrote:

Why do forces th ink they should have hunter like damage, when tehy also have crap loads of other things hunters dont have

You mean like the grand total of 2 weapon catagories that can cast spells, and a bow. Wow we get crap loads of stuff hunters don't get. I can't wait till' fortetecher so I can have 1 more category of weapons to choose from!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tetsuro on 2006-11-05 14:48 ]</font>


Actually Bow is pretty good, dunno the exact numbers but may be better than rifles. I was doing 300 damage a shot with a grinded 3star bow(which was about equal to a 5star baybari in att)

You don't need alot of weapon catagories do you? Every spell is like a different weapon and its just more versitile than a ranger and way more than a hunter whos stuck with weapon affinities no matter what.

Tetsuro
Nov 5, 2006, 05:57 PM
Wasn't saying a bow was bad, in fact I love my bow. My point is that hunters and forces have about the same amount of stuff to choose from. Forces get a limited amount of weapon categories while getting a lot of technics, hunters get a lot of weapons and still have quite a bit of skills to choose from.

Yoruichi
Nov 5, 2006, 06:01 PM
Onlything I prefer over forces is that hunters and some rangers get physcial CC abilities. Where as forces and rangers have procs hunters have anywhere from 50% to 100%(behind) chance to knock something down, launch a into the airl, or send them flying away using PAs.