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FenixStryk
Nov 5, 2006, 10:50 AM
Tired of people getting this concept of GRM being balanced, Yohmei having more PP, and TENORA having more damage. This is a flawed idea. Let me post to you the real stats.

GRM: Lowest Accuracy, Average Damage, Average PP
Yohmei: Average Accuracy, Lowest Damage, Highest PP
TENORA: Highest Accuracy, Highest Damage, Lowest PP

To summarize:
GRM has no advantages.
Yohmei has more PP but sucks at everything else.
TENORA does the highest damage AND has the best accuracy. If you can manage the PP, it is by far the best choice.

So, please. Stop saying GRM is balanced. It's not.

RobotDevil
Nov 5, 2006, 10:52 AM
But you failed to include the shallow people that play the game the people that go for how the weapon looks

Randomness
Nov 5, 2006, 10:54 AM
Tenora SUCKS. For force stuff, anyways. I want as much PP as I can get!

Dhylec
Nov 5, 2006, 10:56 AM
Heh, it's all about references. Everyone has different likes & looks, so they pick whichever is most prefered. Not too hard to understand, right?

Nestahima
Nov 5, 2006, 10:56 AM
On 2006-11-05 07:50, FenixStryk wrote:
Tired of people getting this concept of GRM being balanced, Yohmei having more PP, and TENORA having more damage. This is a flawed idea. Let me post to you the real stats.

GRM: Lowest Accuracy, Average Damage, Average PP
Yohmei: Average Accuracy, Lowest Damage, Highest PP
TENORA: Highest Accuracy, Highest Damage, Lowest PP

To summarize:
GRM has no advantages.
Yohmei has more PP but sucks at everything else.
TENORA does the highest damage AND has the best accuracy. If you can manage the PP, it is by far the best choice.

So, please. Stop saying GRM is balanced. It's not.



GRM is fairly balanced. Especially when grinded. When Moatoob opens up, Tenora will be the best. But as of right now, GRM > Tenora.

Mwabwetumba
Nov 5, 2006, 10:59 AM
I like the TENORA spears mostly because they are quite similar to a cyber-stylish halberd.. just too bad that they use the same attack animation.. ah well, I love the way it looks!

fireant
Nov 5, 2006, 11:00 AM
I like TENORA weapons for my off hand firearms. I play a force so I have never used all the PP in my handgun, but when I need to fire my handgun the higher accuracy and damage is better. I wish they would make bows.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fireant on 2006-11-05 08:00 ]</font>

Nestahima
Nov 5, 2006, 11:02 AM
How are Forces supposed to use bows with such low ATA anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Katrina
Nov 5, 2006, 11:06 AM
Imho, they are all quite useful. I remember seeing a post with post grinded weapons and how the stats are affected, they each seem to scale differently when grinded.

Also, with slots, it's pretty easy to mix and match and achieve a nice focus on whatever stat you would like to balance or improve upon. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Overall (imho) I think the weapons are balanced quite nicely.

AlMcFly
Nov 5, 2006, 11:08 AM
I would personally prefer the Tenora spears for the advantages. Not too into how it looks but it's very bearable. It's too bad that right now, the best available is the GRM 5 star models. We work with what we are given I guess ;P.

Rageking
Nov 5, 2006, 11:09 AM
I love tenora weapons, however the lack grinding is the death blow.....the highest damage benefit ceases to apply once grinding is thrown into the mix....

Typhoeus
Nov 5, 2006, 11:11 AM
On 2006-11-05 07:56, Nestahima wrote:

On 2006-11-05 07:50, FenixStryk wrote:
Tired of people getting this concept of GRM being balanced, Yohmei having more PP, and TENORA having more damage. This is a flawed idea. Let me post to you the real stats.

GRM: Lowest Accuracy, Average Damage, Average PP
Yohmei: Average Accuracy, Lowest Damage, Highest PP
TENORA: Highest Accuracy, Highest Damage, Lowest PP

To summarize:
GRM has no advantages.
Yohmei has more PP but sucks at everything else.
TENORA does the highest damage AND has the best accuracy. If you can manage the PP, it is by far the best choice.

So, please. Stop saying GRM is balanced. It's not.



GRM is fairly balanced. Especially when grinded. When Moatoob opens up, Tenora will be the best. But as of right now, GRM > Tenora.



Word. Right now GRM pwns bad strictly because you can make 5 star GRM weapons AND grind GRM weapons whereas you're not able to do either of those two things for Tenora Works (unfortunately). My arsenal will change to strictly TW when Moatoob opens though, just gonna have to carry around a few more weaps to compensate for the PP loss.

Also: Great points Fenix. I give you 9.75/10.

Parn
Nov 5, 2006, 11:14 AM
On 2006-11-05 07:50, FenixStryk wrote:
If you can manage the PP, it is by far the best choice.

And that right there sir, is the reason why your statement that Tenora Works weapons are the best falls apart. If I'm a ranger, I know I'm not going to be top damage dealer, but I know my status effect and crowd control capabilities are top notch. I'd be going the Youmei line so I can fire a lot more shots and regen PP faster, because status effect proc is not ATP or ATA based... the more times I shoot, the more chances I'm going to land a status effect, or in the case of using a rifle, I'll be able to keep a monster flinching that much more often.

As far as forces go, I'd be using the Youmei line of equipment over others any day of the week, especially for a Resta/Reverser staff, where total PP is more important than anything.

Really, here's my stance on GRM equipment. So far, from all grinding that I've done on hunter weaponry, ATP and PP go up, but ATA does not (someone please let me know if I'm wrong). With this in mind, I'd generally go Tenora Works or Youmei for hunter weapons since both can be boosted in the departments where they suffer most and are the best at, whereas GRM seems to be left behind with the worst ATA that can't be improved (again, if I am wrong, someone let me know).

Typhoeus
Nov 5, 2006, 11:22 AM
I certainly agree Parn with all three points, however I believe Fenix was indeed talking solely about Striking weapons even though he failed to mention it in his opening.

ATA does not increase when you grind a melee weapon, I just did one and triple checked to be certain.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Typhoeus on 2006-11-05 08:28 ]</font>

Auronp
Nov 5, 2006, 11:27 AM
It's not that Tenora is bad, but that atm you cant grind them. If you choose not to grind your weapons then yes Tenora is the best, however the other brands can be improved to be better than Tenora.

Diablohead
Nov 5, 2006, 11:34 AM
GRM grinded to above 5 > *

Problem solved.

Genobee
Nov 5, 2006, 11:39 AM
I personaly think Tenora is the best because PP DOES RUN OUT! I rather be doing over all more damage with my weapon then just relying on PA's and I rather save my PA's for when I realy need um.

RadiantLegend
Nov 5, 2006, 11:42 AM
Im in favor of more PA and looks than normal damage.

greatcaffeine
Nov 5, 2006, 12:00 PM
GRM is balanced, don't be silly. It's not like the GRM weapons are that much weaker than their Tenora counterparts. Plus, with the extra PP, you can make up for any lost damage with special attacks.

Randomness
Nov 5, 2006, 12:02 PM
On 2006-11-05 08:02, Nestahima wrote:
How are Forces supposed to use bows with such low ATA anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Newmans have second highest ATA, with only CASTs having higher. I can use bows just fine, and they do good damage.

Xbob
Nov 5, 2006, 12:39 PM
I just love the amount of depth this game has over PSO where people actually get to argue which weapon manufacturer is best, how awesome is that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

P.S. Yohmei for life.

Pengfishh
Nov 5, 2006, 12:44 PM
On 2006-11-05 07:52, RobotDevil wrote:
But you failed to include the shallow people that play the game the people that go for how the weapon looks



Aesthetics are not shallow. Thinking aesthetics are shallow is shallow.

Genobee
Nov 5, 2006, 12:45 PM
Well Tenora Have the best looking weapons. The pistol is bad ass looking

Pengfishh
Nov 5, 2006, 12:54 PM
I would certainly like to try out some higher end Tenora weapons, but my palette right now is suited just for my immediate needs. I've got a Yohmei Parzanata for destroying bosses quickly (go Dus Daggas GO!), a GRM Lance with decent dark percentage and grinded to 4, and I'll bounce between elemental Rippers and Suckers depending on what I need for where I'm going. I'm also using Yohmei Ryo-Palasra for kicks.

Point in case, I would probably love Tenora weapons because I switch up so often so I don't find myself running out of PP sooner than I'd like. The Dagger-Handgun combination usually assures I won't run out.

So! Let me at those Tenoras when we open.

Alpha-Hunter
Nov 5, 2006, 01:13 PM
I use yohmei swords (have 3) for the PA spammage and looks. I have a GRM sword I wanna grind so it will be my any situation cheap work horse. 'overall' GRM is the best. But depending on your situation (PA spam, Tagging, max normal attack) any can be.

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 5, 2006, 01:18 PM
I prefer the looks of Tenora sabers over GRM sabers, I prefer my swords curved over straight.

Ryogen
Nov 5, 2006, 01:20 PM
I would rather have more PP and lower damage so I can use the arts more to the weapon without stopping. Everyone has their needs and wants of what they want in a weapon. Not everyone wants more damage as most take a stragetic approach to it.

More PP = More Photon Usage
More Damage = More damage to normal attacks
More Accaurcy = Better sucessful hits

So none of the 3 are the best but one is balanced. Each suits a different appeal to another.

PLURSprout
Nov 5, 2006, 01:32 PM
Yeah, this would be an interesting post if it actually concerned anyone other than hunters. With my main being a force, allow me to tell you that Youmei trumps Tenora, at least for Forces. Youmei is the ONLY company that produces rods at this point, and with a 100+ PP difference at LEAST for wands, their wands are going to receive much more use (with a small hit in TAP). So, if I wanted to lose half of my weapon selection (minus non casting weapons), sure, I'd go with only Tenora. At this point I'd only find the higher than average burst damage they provide useful for bosses where PP usage isn't a concern.
Also, having leveled up Techs the PP cost increases with the level (unlike Hunter PAs, atleast in my experience), so sure you might get a nice power up to your techs, but with youmei you can use them more times, and more than make up the difference.
Now as Parn said earlier, if you're going be using resta, which takes at least 30PP per use for me, then you're going to want more PP.
So yeah, to sum everything up, at this point for forces it's really Youmei or bust.

unixping
Nov 5, 2006, 01:38 PM
I have GRM knives +8 and they do more damage and have twice as much PP than the Tenora ones.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: unixping on 2006-11-05 10:38 ]</font>

Alisha
Nov 5, 2006, 01:40 PM
Tenora Works armors are also awesome because they have excellent evasion and in psu

evasion >>>>> defence. also tenora works shotguns own.

peenk
Nov 5, 2006, 01:43 PM
Forgive me but is not true that PP "regen" on weapons is based on how much the PP a weapon has?

I think I noticed Yohmei weaps regening faster (more PP per tick) which is a GREAT GREAT thing for rangers imo.
But yes, as a Hunter I would prefer to use Tenora.
I am not sure how Forces run through PP but from what I noticed, PP:dmg ratio would probably be much for forces (I think forces use less PP to cause more dmg) than rangers which would suggest that GRM is great choice for forces as well as Yohmei.
Besides, since there are no rare weapons in the game yet, we've yet to see the actual difference for these weapons and their manufacturers.

Tystys
Nov 5, 2006, 01:48 PM
If you ask me, there's really no best weapon manufacturer. It all just depends on your class, is all....so

Yohmei-Force
GRM-(Everyone)
TENORA-Ranger/Hunter(I'm just putting ranger because of the highest accuracy thing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)

peenk
Nov 5, 2006, 01:50 PM
Tystys:
The point is Rangers dont need any weapons with highest accuracy. They already have the highest accuracy as it is of any class. What they need is dmg and PP which would mean GRM for rangers (which is what I pick(ed) as a ranger.

SonicTMP
Nov 5, 2006, 01:52 PM
You have options! pick one and enjoy! And in some cases you don't have options. Tenora works is like the ONLY manufacter for of shotguns. Yohmei does claws, GRM does mechguns and double sabers i think. Your gonna be stuck with one type no matter what ina couple instances.

Tystys
Nov 5, 2006, 01:54 PM
On 2006-11-05 10:50, peenk wrote:
Tystys:
The point is Rangers dont need any weapons with highest accuracy. They already have the highest accuracy as it is of any class. What they need is dmg and PP which would mean GRM for rangers (which is what I pick(ed) as a ranger.



K, I was going to put rangers there but I guess Tenora can be a bit mis-leading at times http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Shinomaru
Nov 5, 2006, 02:10 PM
NONE of the weapons is best they all end up doing the same amount of damage if (on same star / person level basis) Example

GRM- Lowest Accuracy, Average Damage, Average PP > you do decent regular attacks Decent damage PP attacks and a good amount of them. and you hit on an ok basis.

Yohmei- Average Accuracy, Lowest Damage, Highest PP > you do below average regular damage. you can spam more PP attacks to do more damage. you also hit more then GRM weapons.


Tenora- Highest Accuracy, Highest Damage, Lowest PP. Your hits are pretty hard on monsters. you DOnt miss alot . but you cannot spam PP like the other 2 weapons.


SKills usually do more damage then. normal hits for example i hit 124's for regular hits then when i do my rising crush i hit monsters for 250-300 per hit. and that would be using my grm weapon.

im not sure if i can word this right but what im trying to say is all the weapons equal each other. the only thing that makes a weapon more unique then another is the person level, race, class level.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shinomaru on 2006-11-05 12:37 ]</font>

Schubalts
Nov 5, 2006, 02:55 PM
This makes me wonder who the manufacturer for axes is...

AnamanaAU
Nov 5, 2006, 03:02 PM
I've been using GRM because they're the most balanced, decent attack and decent PP. Being a cast, screw ATA.

Scuri
Nov 5, 2006, 04:30 PM
On 2006-11-05 10:38, unixping wrote:
I have GRM knives +8 and they do more damage and have twice as much PP than the Tenora ones.


Until the update, sure.

Remedy
Nov 5, 2006, 04:32 PM
On 2006-11-05 07:52, RobotDevil wrote:
But you failed to include the shallow people that play the game the people that go for how the weapon looksYou say that like it's a bad thing.

And my HU alt uses Yohmei gear exclusively. More PP > ore ATP, IMO.

Cause_I_Own_U
Nov 5, 2006, 04:33 PM
The weapons are balanced


Max PP means nothing when you carry 6 weapons around, and the missions have PP rechargers in them.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-05 13:36 ]</font>

KireekSr
Nov 5, 2006, 04:51 PM
I need Tenora disks so I can make them colorful.

VanHalen
Nov 5, 2006, 04:56 PM
On 2006-11-05 07:52, RobotDevil wrote:
But you failed to include the shallow people that play the game the people that go for how the weapon looks



im one of those shallow people who play for the looks i dont think they wouldnt have made them look different for those people all the weapons look good except some yohmei and tenora stuff. GRM looks like PSO weapons so i cant really complain. well some GRM stuff doesnt

Randomness
Nov 5, 2006, 05:05 PM
On 2006-11-05 13:33, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:

The weapons are balanced


Max PP means nothing when you carry 6 weapons around, and the missions have PP rechargers in them.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-05 13:36 ]</font>


Actually, it matters a great deal, when I end up draining thousands of PP on a mission. Assuming it isnt low level for me, where I can nuke everything solo.

Rexob
Nov 5, 2006, 05:18 PM
I think Tenora are quite nice...but I really like Yohmei...have used them primarily for both my Ranger and Hunter. The PP advtange is very noticeable. Especially on the Rifles...over a 300 PP advantage if I remember correct.

With melee I have all 6 elements for my Twin Rippers and 1 Yohmei brand. I switch to match whatever enemy I am fighting. The element advantage alone offsets the dmg I'm giving up...and the fact that I can use my PA more times is very important to me. In addition I noticed my Yohmei Dagger regenerates 6PP/tick opposed to 5PP/tick on my GRM Rippers.

Is 1PP a big deal? For the daggers I believe so, I have the lv20 twin dagger PM and each part of the combo costs 12PP. I notice the regen difference. 6 is half of my PA move...5 is not. Some may not think it's a big thing, but I personally prefer more PP than dmg...when using the corresponding elements it's not a big deal.

Durand
Nov 5, 2006, 05:20 PM
My primary's a force, and I use GRM wands exclusively, with exception of my bow.

Jasam
Nov 5, 2006, 06:28 PM
TENORA is probably to worst make atm, as they are the only make that cannot be grinded.
+5 Yohmei weapons will have more atp, and a lot more pp
GRm wapons will as well.

Later on, it will change a bit

GRM weapons will be overall the best average damage (for hunters) but will suffer in ata department
Yohmei will have great PP (which will be popular for all classes) which will allow for the most PA spam, but will not do as much damage per hit
TENORA weapons will be the most powerful overall, if PP can be kept up with.
With Grinding, you can always bring the PP up to a more resnable level.

I personly see very high end S rank TENORA weapons being the best, by that point their PP pools could well be large enough to spam.... but thats just speculation.

Shinomaru
Nov 5, 2006, 07:07 PM
On 2006-11-05 14:05, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-11-05 13:33, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:

The weapons are balanced


Max PP means nothing when you carry 6 weapons around, and the missions have PP rechargers in them.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-05 13:36 ]</font>


Actually, it matters a great deal, when I end up draining thousands of PP on a mission. Assuming it isnt low level for me, where I can nuke everything solo.






im not sure if i can word this right but what im trying to say is all the weapons equal each other. the only thing that makes a weapon more unique then another is the person level, race, class level.

again the weapons are balance to fill in where others dont. soo it all depends on your play style race level of character and level of class and what class you are.

Itsuki
Nov 5, 2006, 07:13 PM
Tenora weapons also grind like crap, so it doesn't matter that you can't grind them right now.

Tenora grinding is an all or nothing deal. If you don't get it to +10, you don't get any benefit from it. The more you grind, the closer in ATP GRM weapons come to tenora and the bigger of a difference in PP there is.

Realmz
Nov 5, 2006, 07:21 PM
On 2006-11-05 11:55, Schubalts wrote:
This makes me wonder who the manufacturer for axes is...



i'd guess that it's tenora seeing as tenora normally has the highest damage, makes sense to me that they make axes.

if tenora always has the highest damage how come my store bought grm c knuckles were stronger then the tenora version?

Kupi
Nov 5, 2006, 07:26 PM
On 2006-11-05 16:21, Realmz wrote:

On 2006-11-05 11:55, Schubalts wrote:
This makes me wonder who the manufacturer for axes is...



i'd guess that it's tenora seeing as tenora normally has the highest damage, makes sense to me that they make axes.

if tenora always has the highest damage how come my store bought grm c knuckles were stronger then the tenora version?



There are multiple grades at the same level. For instance, there are three different C-rated Rods, all from Yohmei alone. You could have picked up a strong C-rank GRM knuckle weapon, while the one you're comparing it to is a starter-level Tenora knuckle.

PaladinRPG
Nov 5, 2006, 07:27 PM
another thing noone mentioned is the fact PAs work off a percentage of your total ATP. so therefore you can photon art less with Tenoras, but you will deal significantly more and land more blows with having a higher base stat to work off of?

Realmz
Nov 5, 2006, 07:29 PM
On 2006-11-05 16:26, Kupi wrote:

On 2006-11-05 16:21, Realmz wrote:

On 2006-11-05 11:55, Schubalts wrote:
This makes me wonder who the manufacturer for axes is...



i'd guess that it's tenora seeing as tenora normally has the highest damage, makes sense to me that they make axes.

if tenora always has the highest damage how come my store bought grm c knuckles were stronger then the tenora version?



There are multiple grades at the same level. For instance, there are three different C-rated Rods, all from Yohmei alone. You could have picked up a strong C-rank GRM knuckle weapon, while the one you're comparing it to is a starter-level Tenora knuckle.



they were both the top C rank fists tho, the GRm edged the tenora out by like 10 atp or something lemme go check it out

PaladinRPG
Nov 5, 2006, 07:37 PM
On 2006-11-05 16:29, Realmz wrote:they were both the top C rank fists tho, the GRm edged the tenora out by like 10 atp or something lemme go check it out

No, you are right on this one. I use knuckles and the GRM C rank Brass Knuckles have 242 PP/151 ATP/129 ATA, versus a Gudda Brana's 210/133/136 and a Yohmei Brasscle at 273/135/115.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Nov 5, 2006, 07:39 PM
Since nobody else has mentioned it, Tenora is not strongest in all categories. IIRC, GRM daggers and twin daggers are stronger than their Tenora counterparts, and have more PP. The Tenora daggers, however, do have quite the ATA advantage.

HAYABUSA-FMW-
Nov 5, 2006, 07:51 PM
I don't like seeing 0's, much like no one liked seeing MISS in PSO, so I went with Yohmei over GRM for Board/synthesis 5* hunter weapons myself.

Better ATA, less 0's, that make up for PA's 2/3 or 1/2 ATA when used.

Grind them a few times and I have enough power, plenty of PP for PA, and accuracy leading to less zeros. And the look of Rivetacle is a bonus for me at least.

Not to mention everyone and their mom has a Partizan/Durandal and try to sell their spares for 20k. Heh.

Sure you can't call GRM balanced, but maybe basic?

Little more accuracy + PP/less power go for Yohmei
Higher power + less PP/quite a bit more accuracy go for Tenora

The other two compare to the basic or normal GRM equipment, so people might call it balanced, with no major advantages or disadvantages.

And it doesn't apply to all weapon classes, so everyone should be looking and comparing before they buy anyway. Also Tenora 4-5* stuff isn't out yet, right?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2006-11-05 16:53 ]</font>

ProfessorZ
Nov 5, 2006, 07:51 PM
The only Tenora weapon I plan on getting are shotguns

Kanore
Nov 5, 2006, 08:14 PM
As a FOnewm, I care about these things:

GRM sucks.
Yohmei is from my homeplanet, and Newmans are magical, so it's the best.
Tenora's planet is unavailable, so they're useless.

Sorenia
Nov 5, 2006, 09:22 PM
What they need is dmg and PP which would mean GRM for rangers (which is what I pick(ed) as a ranger.


Uhh Yohmei has more PP so why is it suddenly GRM for rangers? Also weapons don't grind the same and it appears Yohmei may have higher ATP at certain levels of grinding than the equivalent GRM.

In short this thread is rather useless untill we figure out how grinding changes things.

Genobee
Nov 5, 2006, 09:25 PM
Actualy as a ranger I find my self using Newman guns instead of any thign else Damage is cute but if you run out of ammo you do no damage.


But realy it's all on the class and race, Tenora is easily better for Beast Hunters


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-05 18:27 ]</font>

SonicTMP
Nov 5, 2006, 11:07 PM
On 2006-11-05 16:39, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Since nobody else has mentioned it, Tenora is not strongest in all categories. IIRC, GRM daggers and twin daggers are stronger than their Tenora counterparts, and have more PP. The Tenora daggers, however, do have quite the ATA advantage.



A guess here but I bet thats cause GRM is the default manufactor of those weapons. It would make sence. You can get different versions at all 3 vendors but which everyone makes it originally will be the best overall.

ViciousXUSMC
Nov 5, 2006, 11:12 PM
I didnt bother to read all 5 pages, so maybe sombody said this already. I heard rumor that there is more than meets the eye on each brand of weapon.

For starters I know for a fact that the yomehie or whatever has a hidden silence effect on the 3 star spear http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif but what I am talking about is weapons after being grinded. I heard that each "brand" has diffrent qualities when grinded. So quite possibly say after you hit +6 on the same weapon from each company one of the other ones will be better than tenora.

Also I like the high PP weapons somtimes for PP spam and skill leveling.

hucast21
Nov 6, 2006, 12:11 AM
After beating Story Mode, you have the ability to buy S Rank weapons/armor/units.

In Extra Mode the strongest S Rank weapons for Fortefighter are from Tenora. The Muktrand spear alone has an ATP of 778 o_O.

The description it gives:

"A top of the line upgraded spear. While unstable, its destructive power is second to none."

The coolest S Rank weapon by far is the Two-headed Ragnus from GRM. I could also confirm that the S Rank twin claws (Ran-Misaki) from Yohmei has the Silence effect.

One other thing I like to point out, I don't see the Axes in offline mode in any of the shops...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hucast21 on 2006-11-05 21:12 ]</font>

SailorDaravon
Nov 6, 2006, 12:22 AM
On 2006-11-05 16:13, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Tenora weapons also grind like crap, so it doesn't matter that you can't grind them right now.

Tenora grinding is an all or nothing deal. If you don't get it to +10, you don't get any benefit from it. The more you grind, the closer in ATP GRM weapons come to tenora and the bigger of a difference in PP there is.



I think everyone's ignoring this post.

If you're a Force or a Ranger, you're almost certainly going to go with Youmei, with a few personal exceptions maybe. If you're a Hunter it's Tenora. However if you feel comfortable grinding up, it's much more debatable if Tenora or GRM is better overall, since like Itsuki says from what I've seen looking around, Tenora weapons grind pretty crappy, and GRM's get fairly large boosts towards the end.

hucast21
Nov 6, 2006, 12:45 AM
On 2006-11-05 21:22, SailorDaravon wrote:

On 2006-11-05 16:13, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Tenora weapons also grind like crap, so it doesn't matter that you can't grind them right now.

Tenora grinding is an all or nothing deal. If you don't get it to +10, you don't get any benefit from it. The more you grind, the closer in ATP GRM weapons come to tenora and the bigger of a difference in PP there is.



I think everyone's ignoring this post.

If you're a Force or a Ranger, you're almost certainly going to go with Youmei, with a few personal exceptions maybe. If you're a Hunter it's Tenora. However if you feel comfortable grinding up, it's much more debatable if Tenora or GRM is better overall, since like Itsuki says from what I've seen looking around, Tenora weapons grind pretty crappy, and GRM's get fairly large boosts towards the end.



I don't think it's debatable if Tenora or GRM is better regarding S Rank weapons for Fortefighter.

GRM S Rank weapons(melee):
Two-headed Ragnus - ATP 315 with 29% fire element
Crimson - ATP 571 with 29% fire element

Tenora S Rank weapons(melee):
Gudda Skela(Knuckles) - ATP 452
Muktrand(Spear) - ATP 778

I don't care how much you grind the S Rank melee weapons from GRM, they won't approach the ATP of Tenora.

I have to see it to believe it personally. I just grinded the Two-headed Ragnus from 0->1 and it only increased its ATP by 3, 318. For each consecutive grind, the GRM has to do alot of catch up to Tenora.

You also forget how hard it is to make grinders +10 in online or +5 in offline.

Without those grinders, your weapons will most likely break going from 4->5. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Aberu
Nov 6, 2006, 12:53 AM
Personally I wouldn't like Tenora for certain weapons. Like Twin Daggers type you spam the PA a lot to get the most damage out of them, so I wouldn't prefer Tenora. Most Rangers would like something with highest damage and accuracy, to make up for the pp lost. Twin Daggers to me are the only thing that would really suck to have made by Tenora.

ViciousXUSMC
Nov 6, 2006, 03:41 AM
Nobody has mentioneed the PP generate for each brand yet eather:

This is a great post from the offical PSU forums, and I have confirmed myself the diffrent brands regen diffrently. My badars 6* spear from tenora does good dmg, but my 5 star from newdays (yomehei or whatever) owns it because I can spam my skill with in CONSTANTLY and almost never run out it has like 280pp on it vs the 178 or so on the tenora.

It also has a 60% light element on it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif (I killed the first boss in the last area of the game in 15 seconds with that spear http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I need to put up that screenshot)

So that above is yet another reason you can not say Tenora is the absolute best.

Infact I thing for sombody like me who uses skills constantly to lvl them up and maximize my damage they are the worst, later on when the mesta for a photon charge is cheap your getting alot more with the other brands when you use one and can spam skills all stage long.



edit: the quote didnt show up last post for some reason...



Weapons vary in all stats, 95% of them you can see, one you can not and that is PP Regen.

Tenora (Beasts) typically will hit the hardest, their 'best' weapons are 1h Melee and 2h Ranged.
GRM (Human/Cast) are your all rounders, when there isn't a Tenora available, GRM's hit harder, if there isn't a Yohmei available, GRM's Regen the fastest. (There is no Tenora Rifle, so GRM Rifles are the hardest hitting, and there is no Yohmei Machine Gun, so GRM Machineguns are the quickest PP Regen)
Yohmei (Newman) typically give up raw stats in the favor of excessive PP Regen. Their 'best' weapons are 2h Melee, and 1h Ranged.

Just a quicky example.
The 1h Pistols, have very little variance in ATP, and ATA. However, the Tenora 1h Pistols (for non-Rangers) regen 7 PP per tick. GRM's regen 10 per tick, and Yohmei regen a blazing 14 per tick! (+5 PP if a Ranger, unsure how experts work on this bonus)

The 3Star Yohmei 1h Pistol gives up 48 ATP (71 vs 119) compared to the Tenora Pistol. But, the Tenora is going to have a much harder time maintaining DPS over a long period of time due to being constantly our of Power. (I have experience this many times with my Beast Hunter when she is forced into using a Pistol, her Tenora Pistols just suck for Regen. Then I switched her to Yohmei Pistols, and, they practically never run out). For the 1h Pistols, Yohmei's are definitely a favorable company to go with.

On the other hand we have the 1h Sabers. In this case, Tenora's for non-Hunters regen 2 PP Per tick, GRM's are 3 PP, and Yohmei's are 4 PP (Hunter's get a +1 PP per tick). The 3 Star Yohmei Saber, has a whopping 121 ATP loss compared to the Tenora Saber! (167 vs 288). Yes, the Yohmei Saber will be able to fire off a few more specials, but it will take MANY more specials compared to the Tenora Saber. Because Sabers can be used without consuming PP, its another reason the Tenora is the favorable company for Sabers.

PSUPedia.org unfortunately does not have a PP Regen listing, yet, not sure if/when they'll add one. On many of their pages they link to a JP Wiki, if you use google.com's auto-translate ability ( http://translate.google.com/translate_t ), you can easily look up the PP Regen for each weapon type + Company.

While PP Capacity does go up with increasing Star numbers, the PP Regen of a given Company + Weapon Type is NOT effected by Star Numbers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-11-06 03:25 ]</font>

Kerik
Nov 6, 2006, 04:18 AM
I have played hunter Offline, testing the weapons out.

Out of my results here is what I have decided (PP regen rate is still unknown but a documented difference)

For the sake of the arguement, all Hume Hunters are wielding sabers, just normal C Sabers, against an equal, level 3 monster.

Hunter A: Tanora - Powerful weapon, yes, S Ranks are great. BUT, lets consider this. These skills essentially do more damage, but I notice a slower regen rate. So yes, I focus godly damage, for ungodly Photon usage. Thus, versus other weapons, that part is lacking.

BUT! Lets consider a hunter that bides his time, normal 3 hits followed by a special and then backing off. This strategy produces AMAZING results in higher damage + Photon usage, and Power Point conservation.

Damage: 20-30 Normal Damage, 50-70 Rising Strike

Hunter B: GRM - Average, decent weapon. Faster Degen rate, noticeble spamming in skills without use of items. While Hunter A managed to do noticeble more damage, Hunter B connects more skills in a faster amount of time, AND for decent damage.

Damage: 17-27 Normal, 40-59 Rising Strike.

Hunter C: Yohmei - Weak weapon, average hitting, high pp and pp regen. The Photon Spammer.

While this weapon TENDS to do a lower damage per hit, lets not forget that Rising Strike definately can keep a hunter alive in a crowded solo area. So...

Damage: 14-26 Normal, 34-54 Rising Strike

Hunter A, in a battle of strength, outclassed them all.

Hunter B, in a battle of versatility, outclassed them all.

Hunter C, in a battle of Photon's, outclassed them all.

This test is still inconclusive due to the fact that I only double tested the results, I'd like to go back before anyone takes this as truth and make SURE this is all the case.

At any rate, that's what I managed to get. I'll test out PP regen rates and such later today and see what I come up with.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kerik on 2006-11-06 01:20 ]</font>

hypersaxon
Nov 6, 2006, 06:21 AM
Comparing offline versions of weapons to online versions of weapons is useless, seeing as they all have completely different stats.

IMO I'm starting to lean more towards Yohmei in a lot of instances. I'm currently using a Yohmei rifle and am shocked at how fast this thing regenerates PP. My GRM rifle's PP regen was slow as molasses compared to my Yohmei one. And if it's true that Yohmei weapons have faster regen than weapons from GRM or Tenora, I may like Yohmei a lot more than I used to.

As far as melee weapons go, I might still say that I'd prefer Yohmei. Spamming your PA is a lot better than just using normal strikes throughout a mission, and a lot more fun. Obviously Yohmei doesn't make every type of weapon so I'd soon have to settle for either GRM or Tenora, but for every type that I can buy from Yohmei, I probably will. Who cares about massive attack power when you can only use your PAs half of the level to keep from running out?

-Shimarisu-
Nov 6, 2006, 06:38 AM
OK.

Youmei spears look the best.
GRM guns look the best.
Tenora daggers look the best.
Knuckles all *look* kinda shitty but the animation and poses are totally fucking hawt so, whatever's available is good.

I don't use much else so not a heck of a lot more is important, really.

Nerds. :O

Thrash777
Nov 6, 2006, 08:38 AM
Doesn't GRM have the most accuracy, and Tenora the worst? I swear that's what it is in Story Mode...

Zabot
Nov 6, 2006, 08:41 AM
If your a high level, your going to hit anyway, especially if your photon art is up there, i sugest yomei, because More PP = more dmg overall for a weapon. that what my lvl 50 friends said, and i tested it, and its try, you might hit 150 with a halbert, and 400 with the Photon art. but with a halbanata, you will hit 350-380 with photon art. but be able to do about 10-20 nire photon art attacks.

AngelLight
Nov 6, 2006, 08:47 AM
Well, I'll throw in my two cents in this "future legendary" post ^_^

Bows: Only one choice anyways, Youmei. Been told that the Kubara bows are disappointing atm (when they come out). So who knows ~_~

Handguns: Right now, I use two GRMs and one Youmei. Overall I prefer GRM for higher accuracy. With that said, I'll prolly likely replace my handguns with Tenora ones when they are grindable.

Sabers: Kubara ^_^, since it's all basically for box breaking for me, why not use a show off wep to break them with http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Rods: Only option is Youmei anyways....but even if there were a choice I'd prolly use Youmei anyways.

Wands: I use both actually.
Right now I am using a GRM wand for my earth spells to try and max out my DPS with it (to make up for the shortfall of it's slow speed). It has an impressive 1180 ATP right now with my current gear (and that's only the 4 * Scepter when I was 20 a little while back....I haven't looked at what the score is now since I've leveled a few times, but it's prolly monsterous.). Using a GRM one, I hit on even levels for about 380-450 dmg a shot with crits upwards of 625 per hit on Diga.
Meanwhile I use the Youmei one for my ice spells......since when I'm using them, I'm more concerned about proccing freeze then overall dmg, but even so, using a Canera (5*) I still do about 110-135 dmg on evens and it has something in the neighborhood of 689 PP on it (+/- I forget the exact amount). But I proc like crazy between it and Ice Arrows on my Bow (at max skill level). Lightning would prolly be the same way if I actively used the spells (I mainly focus on my bow for shocks).
Current my fire wand is GRM as well, but I could go either way with it, since Burn is going to add damage thru the DoT anyways, I can be flexible on what I want out of it (more base dmg vs. more ammo).

Honestly, people underestimate the usefulness of having one really good burst damage weapon on hand. Having an Earth boosted GRM wand is really a great way to flaten bosses. I highly recommend all forces having at least one GRM wand for their main form of damage (be it fire or earth). But I do also think you should have a Youmei wand as well to guarantee yourself a reliable source of damage for long stretches.

Right now my patlete swap looks like this:
Autogun+5/Scepter(Fire)
Rayherod (Light) ---The next thing to be replaced for me...to be upgraded to Hajirod.
Otrotore+1/Canera(Ice)
Autogun+5/Scepter(Earth)
Compardi ---Waiting on ATA to go up high enough to move into B rank weps
Floresent Bulb+1 (Dark) ---Like swinging a dark light techno club light bulb around ^_^

I'm holding off on grinding till I hit the max rank for my class (thus why my saber and handguns are grinded and my wands are not atm (though I'm waiting for +3 luck to start grinding my Canera).

Just my opinions, nothing more.

Yachiru
Nov 6, 2006, 09:19 AM
Well, maybe for hunter TENORA is the best.. or something. I prefer Yohmei over them all. I don't need attack power anyway. xD