Newmen Race Underrated?

[KirinDave]

I see a lot of talk here about making Rangers and Hunters and speculation about the advanced classes. And consistently I see, "I'd like to make a Newman, but they would suck at X."

Folks, if you take a refresher look at Itsuki-chan's excellent stat FAQ (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=119181&forum=22&39) you'll see that newman have the second best ATA, the best EVA and TP, and not that much of a penalty on ATP. The right gear could easily work around these problems, even with the current release.

Stop underrating Humans and Newmen! They're both excellent races for hybrid classes, and good races all around. The only races that have a real disadvantage at certain classes are Beast and Cast, which only suffer with one class.

[Genobee]

not realy, your forgeting Nanoblast and SUV and when you can drop a bosss with just those I think that more then makes up for any thing. Everyone keeps say this race is betetr then this race and that race but to tell you the turth all the races are the same and are even, they just channel there ablities diffrently.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-07 11:00 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-07 11:02 ]</font>

[Kalier]

don't forget the weapons that are only equipable by humans and newmans. i personally love my newman, granted it's a FO but still.

[watashiwa]

It's really all about your own gameplay style. What you like to do...

I'm enjoying playing my Cast as a FO.. if a Newman wants to play Hunter, so be it. =)

[BloodDragoon]

Yeah I Grom Buster'ed De Regan on C rank once for S&G's... I think it lived a whole 6 seconds.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-07 11:00, Genobee wrote:
not realy, your forgeting Nanoblast and SUV and when you can drop a bosss with just those I think that more then makes up for any thing. Everyone keeps say this race is betetr then this race and that race but to tell you the turth all the races are the same and are even, they just channel there ablities diffrently.


I am not forgetting anything. I am just saying, Beasts take a 40% hit to ATA, and Casts take a 50% hit to TAP. They are the only races that take that big a hit to any stat, and that'll hurt you a lot. They are still awesome races. People just assume that the stat gap for newmans and humans is the same, and it's really not, it's a lot smaller.

[Ryogen]

No race would suck at anything becuase all races have their advantages and disadvantages, but a disadvantage can also become a strength.

[Genobee]

ATA is not a big deal personaly it's a useless stat, I don't even notice my beast hunter missing with a pistol neither a sword and missing it not a big deal in this game.

[Mystil]

I kick ass with my lacanata with light element 14%. Newman poooooooooweeeeeerrrrrr!!!!!!!

IMO we have pretty good ATP. Some people might do 10-15 more than me but tha'ts still a lot of damage for a class that's deemed 'weak and only for Force job".

[watashiwa]

Even if Casts really do take a 50% reduction in TAP compared to a Newman FO, I still think they're great.

My Cast is FO 8 right now, since I finished leveling up Hunter to 10, and I think my damage is still decent. It's nowhere as high as Newman, don't get me wrong, but it's passable.

Cast FOs have advantages in durability, compared to Newman FOs, as well. They certainly can take a lot more hits, and if the situation arises, they can dish out physical damage (if need be) as well.. using bows and daggers. (Newman can do this too, but if the Cast is trying to conserve some PP and do some damage to a mob or two, they can still melee a bit with more effectiveness than a Newman could..)

Cast FOs have higher HP than Newman FOs too..

What's also cool is that TAP only really affects damage spells so supportive spells, once they're released, will still be as good on a Cast FO as they are on a Newman. And the Cast FO is always in less danger when having to run into a mixed group of mobs and players to cast spells than a Newman FO..

[AeraLure]

Hmm. Hope this game doesnt devolve into "OMG a Newman Hunter! WTF?!" *boot*

So far the game is pretty darn easy in what I have experienced in most groups of 4+ players more or less at the level they ought to be at for what they are facing provided they are also more or less decently equipped. An average group of 2 Hunters, 2 Rangers and 2 Forces with 2 Nanoblasts and 2 SUVs with Force offense and support is a ton of power, enough imho that if one of those is a Newman Hunter *gasp* it makes no difference at all.

In fact, about the only time it really might is if we are comparing soloing abilities of one Hunter vs another. Even then I am tempted to think its going to come out pretty close in terms of rates of return, the edge in power obviously going to a Beast. Mind you I havent had the opportunity to test it - my Newman is a Force and loving it - but I am surely not going to frown on Newman Hunters I see. There will be SO few of them anyway.

[VanHalen]

this is what i have been saying the whole time thank you you all will feel the power of my newman fortefighter

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-07 11:12, watashiwa wrote:
Even if Casts really do take a 50% reduction in TAP compared to a Newman FO, I still think they're great.

My Cast is FO 8 right now, since I finished leveling up Hunter to 10, and I think my damage is still decent. It's nowhere as high as Newman, don't get me wrong, but it's passable.

Cast FOs have advantages in durability, compared to Newman FOs, as well. They certainly can take a lot more hits, and if the situation arises, they can dish out physical damage (if need be) as well.. using bows and daggers. (Newman can do this too, but if the Cast is trying to conserve some PP and do some damage to a mob or two, they can still melee a bit with more effectiveness than a Newman could..)

Cast FOs have higher HP than Newman FOs too..

What's also cool is that TAP only really affects damage spells so supportive spells, once they're released, will still be as good on a Cast FO as they are on a Newman. And the Cast FO is always in less danger when having to run into a mixed group of mobs and players to cast spells than a Newman FO..



and not to mention you got your SUV for added damage

[Ambrai]

In a game like this there should never be any discrimination towards a perticular race/class. For instance a Newman Hunter would possibly have a 20% reduction in DPS in the end, but the PSO series has never had a block imposed based on DPS alone. Generally strat has always been the key determining factor for anything in the PSO series to date. Mind you PSU (currently) requires much less strat than the previous incantations.

All in all what it comes down to is playing the game in a way that is fun to you. If you got booted then consider it a blessing, because it means you know real quick what type of person they truely are.

P.S. Been a long time Wata, hope all is well with you =).

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-07 11:34, Ambrai wrote:
In a game like this there should never be any discrimination towards a perticular race/class. For instance a Newman Hunter would possibly have a 20% reduction in DPS in the end, but the PSO series has never had a block imposed based on DPS alone. Generally strat has always been the key determining factor for anything in the PSO series to date. Mind you PSU (currently) requires much less strat than the previous incantations.

All in all what it comes down to is playing the game in a way that is fun to you. If you got booted then consider it a blessing, because it means you know real quick what type of person they truely are.

P.S. Been a long time Wata, hope all is well with you =).



Wha wha wha? less strat then PSO? what strat did PSO have light heavy heavy attack, hope you don't miss, run away, repet process.

[Cross]

On 2006-11-07 11:12, watashiwa wrote:
What's also cool is that TAP only really affects damage spells so supportive spells, once they're released, will still be as good on a Cast FO as they are on a Newman.

Has this been methodically tested, or are people still working off of the assumption that "Oh there's no TAP modifier; it must not have anything to do with TAP!"

Because I've seen two different characters with highly variable TAP cast the same level of Resta and wind up with vastly different average heals.

One would assume that not seeing a TAP modifier means that it is effectively "100%" and doesn't change.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-11-07 11:44 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

On 2006-11-07 11:43, Cross wrote:

Has this been methodically tested, or are people still working off of the assumption that "Oh there's no TAP modifier; it must not have anything to do with TAP!"

Because I've seen two different characters with highly variable TAP cast the same level of Resta and wind up with vastly different average heals.

Well, I was talking more along the lines of Shifta and Deband (or whatver they're called in PSU now.. plus the Jellen and Zalure thingies..).. It wouldn't surprise me if Resta does modify from TAP, though. I can heal about 470+, right now, on my Cast and I think my Resta is only level 13... (But I'm also Force 8, and between 7 and 8, I gained I think something like 30 TAP? Or 32? So.. I'll have to check again once Resta is maxed to LV 20 and Force is level 10..)

BTW, hi, Ambrai! =P

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2006-11-07 11:53 ]</font>

[Tetsuro]

My biggest question is what makes a better wartech? Everyone seems to be of the opinion that humans make the best, but wouldn't a newms magic do more that a humans, while a humans physical attacks do more than the newms. Throw in the buffs and they both would be doing pretty good damage. Is there some huge difference bewteen a newm wartech and human wartech stats or something? cause everyone keeps telling me humans would make the better ones.

[KirinDave]

Everyone can make a good wartecher. I just like the newman male stat spread. Lots of hunters don't get why I love evasion so much, but once you've made a newman force and slotted a Legs unit, you will see why I think Evasion is a key stat. It's pretty fun to see your shield flare up over and over as De Ragan's tail swipes futilely at you.

[Ambrai]

On 2006-11-07 11:39, Genobee wrote:

Wha wha wha? less strat then PSO? what strat did PSO have light heavy heavy attack, hope you don't miss, run away, repet process.



Some of the bosses took some strat (albeight minor) compared to the current PSU boss style of run up and hit.

Over time I definately expect them to expand the current bosses and provide a much more challenging gameplay experience overall. The nice thing is the current engine allows for much more flexability and growth than the previous engine. Including the new 'fps style' first person perspective, it could open up many new doors for possible progression and strat.

[Ambrai]

On 2006-11-07 12:09, KirinDave wrote:
Everyone can make a good wartecher. I just like the newman male stat spread. Lots of hunters don't get why I love evasion so much, but once you've made a newman force and slotted a Legs unit, you will see why I think Evasion is a key stat. It's pretty fun to see your shield flare up over and over as De Ragan's tail swipes futilely at you.




Mind you I could be wrong, I've been playing casually as a Hunter since release, but it seems to me like shield blocking would be a greater negative than damage mitigation. The primary reason I say this is in mitigation you take the hit but continue through on your attacks, on a shield block it haults all attacks you are doing, including specials.

All in all if the mitigation is great enough then it should greatly outperform evasion.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-07 12:20, Ambrai wrote:

Mind you I could be wrong, I've been playing casually as a Hunter since release, but it seems to me like shield blocking would be a greater negative than damage mitigation. The primary reason I say this is in mitigation you take the hit but continue through on your attacks, on a shield block it haults all attacks you are doing, including specials.

All in all if the mitigation is great enough then it should greatly outperform evasion.


We're still feeling around the edges of the PSU combat equations, so it's not sure. yet. I do know that it's pretty impressive to not take any damage at all even though you're being hit, that's 100% mitigation, albeit at the cost of an animation. Also note that evasions stop status effects, whereas DEF-based mititgation does not. Evaded worms can't weaken you, for example.

I've yet to see anyone so strong that they take single-digit damage from even the C-Rank De Ragan (anyone out there want to brag?), but it's hard to say until we get the A-ranks unlocked.

[Ambrai]

That is a good point, it will be interesting to see how things progress from here.

[Cross]

On 2006-11-07 11:52, watashiwa wrote:
Well, I was talking more along the lines of Shifta and Deband (or whatver they're called in PSU now.. plus the Jellen and Zalure thingies..).. It wouldn't surprise me if Resta does modify from TAP, though. I can heal about 470+, right now, on my Cast and I think my Resta is only level 13... (But I'm also Force 8, and between 7 and 8, I gained I think something like 30 TAP? Or 32? So.. I'll have to check again once Resta is maxed to LV 20 and Force is level 10..)

Well, yeah, but it's possible that the others are TAP-modified too. It's hard to tell, though; as far as I can figure, buffs don't show up on your stats page or anything, so you can't really tell exactly how much benefit you get other than eyeballing how much your damage goes up when you hit shit.

Either way, it also raises the question of exactly what level of Shifta Agtalide gives you. Shrouded in mystery, I tell you.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Newman have lowest hp and defense, no special attack like nanoblast or suv, look like pansy fruit cakes, and are pretty much pigeon hold into a tech or ranger type class which are in many peoples eyes the most boring classes (low damage support class and a healing support class)

Also, a beast or cast could still play a tech and atleast still be good at healing where as if a newman played a hunter he would suck at hp AND damage

Id rather play a human tech than a newman tech anyway, more hp and defense > a few more points of tap





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-07 14:02 ]</font>

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-07 11:12, AeraLure wrote:
Hmm. Hope this game doesnt devolve into "OMG a Newman Hunter! WTF?!" *boot*


Nah, but I bet a lot of racism will go on.

"LOLZ LOOK AT J00 WHO CAN'T NANO OR SUV WIT CRAP ATK"

Remember what RAmarls went through with that whole "lowest ATA of the rangers" mess. (I would have loved to have 241 ATA on my HU).

[jimmer411]

On 2006-11-07 13:59, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Newman have lowest hp and defense, no special attack like nanoblast or suv, look like pansy fruit cakes, and are pretty much pigeon hold into a tech or ranger type class which are in many peoples eyes the most boring classes (low damage support class and a healing support class)

Also, a beast or cast could still play a tech and atleast still be good at healing where as if a newman played a hunter he would suck at hp AND damage

Id rather play a human tech than a newman tech anyway, more hp and defense > a few more points of tap





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-07 14:02 ]</font>


Except that newman hunters dont suck. My brother is a male beast hunter, im female newman. The damage difference not that great, where Im doing 50 in relic C to those jumpy things, he was doing 55-60~. Not that big of a different

he has more hp than me, but he gets hit more often. I have less but get hit harder (if that) and can rely on monomates to keep me going, dimates if im super low. dimates heal him for maybe half and he burns thru so many of them.

[Schubalts]

Newman hunters are like rogues/thieves in other games: it doesn't matter how much damage an opponent can do, if the attack gets evaded completely.

[VanHalen]

On 2006-11-07 15:16, Schubalts wrote:
Newman hunters are like rogues/thieves in other games: it doesn't matter how much damage an opponent can do, if the attack gets evaded completely.



its kinda why i like newman hunters the best because those were theives are my favorite class (granted if it is provided)

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-07 13:59, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
Newman have lowest hp and defense,

Marginally. Newmen get a 10% penalty to base HP and Def. This isn't a lot. You probably think that the newman hp is so low because you hear about forces, that get a very big 30% penalty to hp.


no special attack like nanoblast or suv

Crea Weapons. Tyvm.


and are pretty much pigeon hold into a tech or ranger type class which are in many peoples eyes the most boring classes (low damage support class and a healing support class)

You need to review the differences. It's a 15% ATP difference on the base attack scores. Your job does far more to modify your stats. Look at the observation above. If you're hitting for 70-75, a newman hunter in similar gear will be hitting for 61-75.

Sure, that adds up, but on the other hand the newman has better evasion and techniques.

And who said Forces were a healing support class anyways? Two spells out of 8 makes a healer? With the best AoE, the most flexible elements, and some wicked single target damage, I wouldn't call forces a healer support class.


Also, a beast or cast could still play a tech and atleast still be good at healing where as if a newman played a hunter he would suck at hp AND damage

That'd be fine, if forces could be healers. But they cannot be dedicated healers, so it's kind of moot. A force who cannot both heal and do damage is not living up to the potential of the class. I am all for Cast Forces, because they have their own advantages.


Id rather play a human tech than a newman tech anyway, more hp and defense > a few more points of tap

So it's only "a few points" when the Newman come out with a 20% bonus to TAP. But when the newman base ATP is only 15% less than the Human (and only 10% less base HP!) then they will do "suck" damage and have "suck" HP.

Your opinion is your own to have. But assuming Itsuki-chan's numbers are accurate, your opinion doesn't seem very closely aligned with the facts.

[aquafire]

I love my newman, he easily kills all enemies (The HIVE) with one spell(1,000 damage). I'm offline though, so dunno if it's the same with everyone else.

[Zorafim]

I have to agree with the whole evading attacks as a hunter thing being annoying. If using slow weapons or PAs, it's very easy to evade an attack just before hitting the enemy. I've had many cases where I was just about to attack using Dus Robeto, which kills off weaker enemies in one hit, when I evaded an attack that would have literally of done two damage. Not only do I have to start the animation over, but I also lose that 9 PP.

I've also had cases where I got stuck in eva lock, unable to attack because two enemies with low accuracy were whaling on me. I'd had much rather taken the hit and at least attack instead of evading them all.

All of this experience was with an extra mode character, so I don't know how different that would be online. Regardless, dispite my loyalty to numans, both the looks and stats of casts are enough to shift me over to their side.

[Rajaxx]

On 2006-11-07 11:12, AeraLure wrote:
Hmm. Hope this game doesnt devolve into "OMG a Newman Hunter! WTF?!" *boot*





Too late, ive already been kicked out of 4 party's when playing my newman hunter =P

95% of the pop doesnt care tho.

[Sexy_Raine]

Sorry but newman hunters do suck, their stats are greatly inferior to a cast's. They are useless, unless you really want to waste your time trying to be a high enough level to match the other races. Newman rangers can be decent, nothing special though.

[aquafire]

Are hunter CASTs better than human hunters?

[Elleranda]

On 2006-11-07 18:49, Schubalts wrote:
Y HALO THAR FOCAST. If people can see the advantages of a CAST or beast force, why is it hard to see the advantages of a newman hunter?



Because their strongest stat, TP, goes completely unused as a hunter.

[Schubalts]

Y HALO THAR FOCAST. If people can see the advantages of a CAST or beast force, why is it hard to see the advantages of a newman hunter?

[Schubalts]

MST? EVA? ATA? Newmans have other good stats besides TP.

[Elleranda]

On 2006-11-07 18:53, Schubalts wrote:
MST? EVA? ATA? Newmans have other good stats besides TP.



True, but other races can still use their best stats in some shape or form as any class. That's why people consider them gimped.

I don't care though.

[watashiwa]

You know what sucks, though, is how SUV power seems to be linked to ATP. (Cast force using SUV does quite a bit less damage, although still decent damage, compared to Cast Hunter SUV...)


On 2006-11-07 11:34, Ambrai wrote:
P.S. Been a long time Wata, hope all is well with you =).



Oh I forgot to say, my mistress Lolli says hi too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-07 18:36, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Sorry but newman hunters do suck, their stats are greatly inferior to a cast's. They are useless, unless you really want to waste your time trying to be a high enough level to match the other races. Newman rangers can be decent, nothing special though.



Because we all know that a 10% damage difference per hit with 1 character means that now, you can't kill Onma. Zomg!

This is what the WoW endgame does to people.

[Zorafim]

It seems that alot of people come from FFXI, as well. 10% is huge in FFXI.

[Genobee]

well I notice my Beast hunter does almost double the damage of a newman hunter.

[watashiwa]

On 2006-11-07 22:03, Zorafim wrote:
It seems that alot of people come from FFXI, as well. 10% is huge in FFXI.



Fuck that, get your Tarutaru Samurai out of my party.

[Genobee]

Beast > Mithra

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2006-11-07 21:36, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-07 18:36, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Sorry but newman hunters do suck, their stats are greatly inferior to a cast's. They are useless, unless you really want to waste your time trying to be a high enough level to match the other races. Newman rangers can be decent, nothing special though.



Because we all know that a 10% damage difference per hit with 1 character means that now, you can't kill Onma. Zomg!

This is what the WoW endgame does to people.



That is such BS, there no way in hell a female newman hunter does only 10% less damage of a male cast hunter. At the same level with the exact equipment, that is such an f-ing lie that Cast does 200 and the newman can do 180. Seriously, it not true.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-07 22:30, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-11-07 21:36, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-07 18:36, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Sorry but newman hunters do suck, their stats are greatly inferior to a cast's. They are useless, unless you really want to waste your time trying to be a high enough level to match the other races. Newman rangers can be decent, nothing special though.



Because we all know that a 10% damage difference per hit with 1 character means that now, you can't kill Onma. Zomg!

This is what the WoW endgame does to people.



That is such BS, there no way in hell a female newman hunter does only 10% less damage of a male cast hunter. At the same level with the exact equipment, that is such an f-ing lie that Cast does 200 and the newman can do 180. Seriously, it not true.



actualy it is... starting out cast female has 126 atp and Newman female has 101 atp for hunter

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-07 22:30, Sexy_Raine wrote:

That is such BS, there no way in hell a female newman hunter does only 10% less damage of a male cast hunter. At the same level with the exact equipment, that is such an f-ing lie that Cast does 200 and the newman can do 180. Seriously, it not true.



Sure, if you throw the ATP-penalized gender at it, then yeah. Even then, a % difference in ATP will not result in a direct % difference in damage. But let's say it's 20% of the damage, does that mean you can't beat De Ragan? Does it even slow you down? Does it hurt you on Onma?

If it does, why should we ever accept anything but Beast hunters? Cast forces? If not, how are we ever going to see hybrid classes? Do you care enough to kick them from your party.

[Sexy_Raine]

No one is going to make their newman expert class with a hunter's, plain and simple.It's all fair game with humans though, since there's no feeling discouraged when switching over to a another class, your not limited
I have yet to see a newman hunter in b-mission. If I do see one, I will carefully watch the damage he does compared to the others.

I was do doing the b-rank ruins mission yesterday, and as a force at level 20, I can suprisingly take a good number of hits, I can't figure out how that's possible, since I should have the poorest defensive stats

[Shiro_Ryuu]

ok, lets see it this way, suppose a newman female hunter and a male beast hunter of equal level and equipment both kill an equally tough enemy of equal level in the same amount of time without healing while soloing, who do you think will get more bragging rights?

[Genobee]

I love how people are liKE "HUMANS CAN DO EVERYTHING THEY HAVE EVEN STATS" unless they come out with a class that uses every stat sorry to say, humans may be able to do every thign doesn't mean they don't suck at it.

plain and simple humans= redmage



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-08 10:19 ]</font>

[Schubalts]

Oh, hey! Guess what? There ARE people who are going to make newman fortefighters, figunners, wartechers, (insert other expert classes that are not forces). So, yea. I'm pretty sure that nobody who plays a newman hunter gives a damn about how much 'ubar awsomz damgez' that a beast can do. A hunter does NOT depend soley on ATP or HP.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

+1
I mean, my Newman is going to either be a Guntecher or a Fortegunner. I don't have to make her a Fortetecher. And my Human is going to be a Figunner, and he'll be a pure fighting specialist(Twin Sabers and Twin Daggers mostly), and so far, I'm not having any trouble with him as a Hunter.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-11-08 10:47 ]</font>

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-08 10:15, Sexy_Raine wrote:
No one is going to make their newman expert class with a hunter's, plain and simple.


A lot of Wartechers, Guntechers, and Figunners will be newman. I am strongly considering Wartecher.


It's all fair game with humans though, since there's no feeling discouraged when switching over to a another class, your not limited
I have yet to see a newman hunter in b-mission. If I do see one, I will carefully watch the damage he does compared to the others.

A good friend of mine here from PSOW is a L40 female Newman hunter. She is pretty strong. Would a beast hunter be stronger? Yes. Does that mean she is a "waste" of a party slot? No. PSOW has more room for personal skill, as opposed to something like FFXI or WoW where your character's statistics and abilities play a larger role.


I was do doing the b-rank ruins mission yesterday, and as a force at level 20, I can suprisingly take a good number of hits, I can't figure out how that's possible, since I should have the poorest defensive stats

Probably because, when combined with evasion and our natural tendency for ranged combat, it's true that forces actually have a fairly decent amount of survivability.

I take less damage during De Ragan runs than anyone else. Evade, evade, evade. I'm not afraid of his tail at all. I've never seen him hit me twice in a row with it. Heck, he has trouble stepping on me.

Will that scale out into high levels? I honestly do not know.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-11-08 11:19 ]</font>

[Cause_I_Own_U]

People keep in mind low levels dont mean jack, just because a newman does comparable damage to a beast at low lvls doesnt mean at high lvl he will, look what happens when you gain a lvl beast gets 10 atp newman gets what 4 or 5?

Now wait untill they are both 50, beasts atp will be way way over newmans

[Sexy_Raine]

Why use a newman then to mix it with something else? I just don't see the point of it. If I care about variety, then I'll use a human for that. I honestly don't believe in whoring top-tier stats, but I not going to waste my time mastering something else that does less damage, and that another race can do better. I'll be going straght for lv. 30 techs. Hell , I'm going to use a human ranger. Are they inferior to the cast ranger? Yes. Do I care? Not at all.

And your right KirinDave, EVP has improved this time around, it was pretty useless in PSO.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2006-11-08 12:19, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
People keep in mind low levels dont mean jack, just because a newman does comparable damage to a beast at low lvls doesnt mean at high lvl he will, look what happens when you gain a lvl beast gets 10 atp newman gets what 4 or 5?

Now wait untill they are both 50, beasts atp will be way way over newmans



I completely agree with that

[Hustler_One]

On 2006-11-08 12:29, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:19, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
People keep in mind low levels dont mean jack, just because a newman does comparable damage to a beast at low lvls doesnt mean at high lvl he will, look what happens when you gain a lvl beast gets 10 atp newman gets what 4 or 5?

Now wait untill they are both 50, beasts atp will be way way over newmans



I completely agree with that



As do I, because we all know stats > skill, and that the ONLY point to playing this game is to be a demi-god. *Nods*

Now, excuse me, im off to go run Dragon nonstop for 10 hours, because leveling is the only point to playing.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-08 12:27, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Why use a newman then to mix it with something else? I just don't see the point of it. If I care about variety, then I'll use a human for that. I honestly don't believe in whoring top-tier stats, but I not going to waste my time mastering something else that does less damage, and that another race can do better. I'll be going straght for lv. 30 techs. Hell , I'm going to use a human ranger. Are they inferior to the cast ranger? Yes. Do I care? Not at all.

Because we aren't making our choices based on analysis of a race's stats. I happen to like Newman in PSU (I didn't in PSO), so I'm sticking with it. I will definitely try out Fortetcher, but Wartecher looks good, and actually I think a Newman Guntecher will probably be at least as good as a Cast Guntecher.

Simply put, I can gear around any stat disadvantages I have. Where some people socket evasion units, I socket defense units. A beast will want an ATA unit, a newman will want a strength unit. We're all trying to work around our shortcomings.

I personally think Beast's have it really hard up, since ATA has seemed to be a pretty important stat. I definitely notice it when beasts go with a big weapon into a crowd and whiff several times. The scariest things I've seen are the speed nanoblasts, because suddenly the beasts have good ATA and EVP, with their already good stats, the result is pretty scary.


And your right KirinDave, EVP has improved this time around, it was pretty useless in PSO.

Well, in PSO ultimate mode, evp and ata became way more important, but yeah, evasion is way more powerful in PSU, and for once forces get in spades. In some ways, my force is more durable than my hunter, because with his evasion he is definitely taking a ton of hits and not feeling it.

In fact, the biggest damage problem my force has is magic. Neudaiz seems much more dangerous to my mere 450hp than Parum. I am strongly considering switching my TP unit to a MST unit when I go there.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-08 10:18, Genobee wrote:
I love how people are liKE "HUMANS CAN DO EVERYTHING THEY HAVE EVEN STATS" unless they come out with a class that uses every stat sorry to say, humans may be able to do every thign doesn't mean they don't suck at it.

plain and simple humans= redmage



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-08 10:19 ]</font>


Dude, no no no. See, Humans are acceptable at everything and some advanced classes look downright attractive to them. Redmages were only good at one thing, and that was refreshing.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2006-11-08 12:40, Hustler_One wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:29, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:19, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
People keep in mind low levels dont mean jack, just because a newman does comparable damage to a beast at low lvls doesnt mean at high lvl he will, look what happens when you gain a lvl beast gets 10 atp newman gets what 4 or 5?

Now wait untill they are both 50, beasts atp will be way way over newmans



I completely agree with that



As do I, because we all know stats > skill, and that the ONLY point to playing this game is to be a demi-god. *Nods*

Now, excuse me, im off to go run Dragon nonstop for 10 hours, because leveling is the only point to playing.



Hold on, I didn't mean it like that! Stats aren't everything if the person using the character doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Skill is important, but stats can hold back your playing ability a little too.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-11-08 12:50 ]</font>

[Alisha]

On 2006-11-07 11:43, Cross wrote:

On 2006-11-07 11:12, watashiwa wrote:
What's also cool is that TAP only really affects damage spells so supportive spells, once they're released, will still be as good on a Cast FO as they are on a Newman.

Has this been methodically tested, or are people still working off of the assumption that "Oh there's no TAP modifier; it must not have anything to do with TAP!"

Because I've seen two different characters with highly variable TAP cast the same level of Resta and wind up with vastly different average heals.

One would assume that not seeing a TAP modifier means that it is effectively "100%" and doesn't change.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cross on 2006-11-07 11:44 ]</font>


im convinced that TAP must be involved someway because offline i've leveled shifta and megiverse both to level 11 as a beast force and it always increased my damage by almost exactly 10. through the 11 levels of shifta the only thing that noticably changed was the range and the duration(only duration in the case of megiverse) however when maya casts shifta on me it increased my beast fo gone rangers' damage with twin handguns by 100 when i was using twin burn in the temple of ice O_O. at the time when my beast force was getting only a 10 dmg increase from my own shifta she had a grinded brand equiped if that matters any too you. i would estimate agitade gives around level 10 shifta duration wise. i can test it when i get home by timing it since in story mode at the hive you can buy stat boosting items from bruce.

[Hustler_One]

On 2006-11-08 12:49, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:40, Hustler_One wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:29, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:19, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
People keep in mind low levels dont mean jack, just because a newman does comparable damage to a beast at low lvls doesnt mean at high lvl he will, look what happens when you gain a lvl beast gets 10 atp newman gets what 4 or 5?

Now wait untill they are both 50, beasts atp will be way way over newmans



I completely agree with that



As do I, because we all know stats > skill, and that the ONLY point to playing this game is to be a demi-god. *Nods*

Now, excuse me, im off to go run Dragon nonstop for 10 hours, because leveling is the only point to playing.



Hold on, I didn't mean it like that! Stats aren't everything if the person using the character doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Skill is important, but stats can hold back your playing ability a little too.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-11-08 12:50 ]</font>

Then my apologies, because thats very much what it sounded like. Regardless of how you ment it, my point remains the same, just because some classes are considered "gimp" doesnt mean they are. I have less success on my newman hunter than my beast obviously, but a newman hunter is playable, and acually nice to a degree. Im getting tired of seeing "0"s on 2/5 of my swings on my beast. And I do agree that certain poor stats can hold a class back, making it tough to play them fully, but look at it this way, a person who learnes to play with newmans low ATP and HP, will perform better than most if they ever switch to a class that is more suited to that type of play (such as a beast.)

Either way, this isent WoW, and any class can be played. Just certain types are easier than others, once again my apologies on miss-interpreting you.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2006-11-08 12:43, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:27, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Why use a newman then to mix it with something else? I just don't see the point of it. If I care about variety, then I'll use a human for that. I honestly don't believe in whoring top-tier stats, but I not going to waste my time mastering something else that does less damage, and that another race can do better. I'll be going straght for lv. 30 techs. Hell , I'm going to use a human ranger. Are they inferior to the cast ranger? Yes. Do I care? Not at all.

Because we aren't making our choices based on analysis of a race's stats. I happen to like Newman in PSU (I didn't in PSO), so I'm sticking with it. I will definitely try out Fortetcher, but Wartecher looks good, and actually I think a Newman Guntecher will probably be at least as good as a Cast Guntecher.

Simply put, I can gear around any stat disadvantages I have. Where some people socket evasion units, I socket defense units. A beast will want an ATA unit, a newman will want a strength unit. We're all trying to work around our shortcomings.

I personally think Beast's have it really hard up, since ATA has seemed to be a pretty important stat. I definitely notice it when beasts go with a big weapon into a crowd and whiff several times. The scariest things I've seen are the speed nanoblasts, because suddenly the beasts have good ATA and EVP, with their already good stats, the result is pretty scary.




You know what? I am very undecided on who will be my fourth slot. I'm a newman, a cast and soon-to-be human. All I got to say that it's certainly not going to be a beast, because I can care less about them. Now I'm somewhat convinsed to be a second newman, because I love newman. Still not wasting my time with hunter though. But I kind of want to be a Newman ranger now. That space will still be blank for awhile though. If sega gives us newman something other races can't use, I may consider it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and I'm sorry if I sounded too agressive in my posts. It's my nature



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-11-08 13:19 ]</font>

[Jiga]

Deleted


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jiga on 2006-11-08 13:32 ]</font>

[Maskim]

Anyone who's so close minded to think Newmans can't be hunters obviously doesn't quite have a grasp on things. Now, I don't play a newman, I'm making a Cast Figunner at this point (lvl 5 hunter/lvl 2 ranger as of now), but with how much better they look in PSU than PSO, I'm seriously considering making my alt, who's going to be a straight spear weildig, axe slinging fortefighter, a newman.

Does a Beast hit for more? Yes. Do they have trouble connecting at times? Yup. Now a newman is going to do less per hit, I'm not going to debate that. It's just the way it is. However, based off my Cast experience, since Newman ATA is close to Cast, the number of 0's seen will be slim. As it stands with my Cast, I miss maybe 1 out of 10 times, on PAs, and so rarely it takes me by surprise on regular hits. On the other hand, I see Beasts missing about 2 out of 5.

What this brings me to, in a round about way (here's the bush, let me just beat around it), is there's basically two ways to play this game, solo or party. If you're soloing a level, what does it matter that my hits are 10-20 less, I'm still getting all the kills, with having to swing a couple more times to make up the damage defecit.(not even considering the fact that the huge ATP, low ATA char is having to swing a few more times as well because they missed).

If you're in a party, yes, hunters are there to do damage, but even more importantly, as a member of a group, you're there to keep the mobs busy(not to snag all the items, as a confused multitude seem to believe). In this regard, what does it matter that I'm hitting for 50, instead of 60-65? I've hit the mob, reliably, and still managed to flinch them (the cases where such a slim amount of damage is the deference between one char flinching, and another not seem fairly uncommon, and would take a level, or an ATK slot item at the most to correct), therefore doing my job.

A newman's going to be just fine in a hunter position, and will be more of a swashbuckling fighter, as opposed to the hard hitting brute.

In conclusion, be whatever you want, and possibly the best thing to base your race choice on is looks as opposed to stats. After all, even if you subscribe to all this beast propaghanda, what fun is being a beast if you can't stand their looks?

[Mystil]

Why dont some of you just play a newman and find out for yourselves..? Some of us can sit here all day and explain to you that this race has no problems with any class outside force, but it's not enough. I was a FO in PSOGC since 2003-Mar2006, and I tried force in this game and you know what? For once I wanted to be the one kicking ass with weapons and not techs. I dont wont this "you're not 40-50" crap thrown at me when I say this, but for a "OMG FORCE ONLY RACE" I was doing 200+ per hit in unsafe passage b with my spear(light). OMG ISNT THAT SUPPOSED TO BE 60 DMG??!!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif??

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif o w8, ooo i got 1. i was fighting the dragon today and I did awesome dmg. every1 was lmao'ing and a bunch of 0's popped up in thier bubbles. don't no what dat waz all bout but my best shot on the dragon was 2dmg! i'm level 26 btw.

any1 no where i can get a de ragan tail????

[FOnewearl-Lina]

But... you're not 40-50!
Try playing newman GunTecher after being Fortecher, see how badly your damage gets nerfed(Sorry Itsuki ><), THEN come back and say that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Para]

Anyone who's so close minded to think Newmans can't be hunters obviously doesn't quite have a grasp on things. Now, I don't play a newman, I'm making a Cast Figunner at this point (lvl 5 hunter/lvl 2 ranger as of now), but with how much better they look in PSU than PSO, I'm seriously considering making my alt, who's going to be a straight spear weildig, axe slinging fortefighter, a newman.
Im playing Female Newman Hunter and I tell you... its harder than other classes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I plan to become a figunner in the future too. However in the end its preference. I don't mind the handicap and I like the general look of newmans so nothing wrong playing as a Newman.

Of course no matter what... Newmans are the best suited for being forces.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2006-11-08 13:08, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:43, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-08 12:27, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Why use a newman then to mix it with something else? I just don't see the point of it. If I care about variety, then I'll use a human for that. I honestly don't believe in whoring top-tier stats, but I not going to waste my time mastering something else that does less damage, and that another race can do better. I'll be going straght for lv. 30 techs. Hell , I'm going to use a human ranger. Are they inferior to the cast ranger? Yes. Do I care? Not at all.

Because we aren't making our choices based on analysis of a race's stats. I happen to like Newman in PSU (I didn't in PSO), so I'm sticking with it. I will definitely try out Fortetcher, but Wartecher looks good, and actually I think a Newman Guntecher will probably be at least as good as a Cast Guntecher.

Simply put, I can gear around any stat disadvantages I have. Where some people socket evasion units, I socket defense units. A beast will want an ATA unit, a newman will want a strength unit. We're all trying to work around our shortcomings.

I personally think Beast's have it really hard up, since ATA has seemed to be a pretty important stat. I definitely notice it when beasts go with a big weapon into a crowd and whiff several times. The scariest things I've seen are the speed nanoblasts, because suddenly the beasts have good ATA and EVP, with their already good stats, the result is pretty scary.




You know what? I am very undecided on who will be my fourth slot. I'm a newman, a cast and soon-to-be human. All I got to say that it's certainly not going to be a beast, because I can care less about them. Now I'm somewhat convinsed to be a second newman, because I love newman. Still not wasting my time with hunter though. But I kind of want to be a Newman ranger now. That space will still be blank for awhile though. If sega gives us newman something other races can't use, I may consider it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and I'm sorry if I sounded too agressive in my posts. It's my nature



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-11-08 13:19 ]</font>


don't mind your aggressive tone, even though it insults Newman Hunters, but I am suprised that you're saying that with that avatar of yours. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Sexy_Raine]

LOL, you have a point! Karen rocks though. Offline stats mean nothing anywayz

I'll put Mirei there soon

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Alisha]

considering my cast hunter isnt even in the same leauge as my beast hunter i feel bad for newman hunters. the main thing newman hunters have going for them is evasion.

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-08 19:12, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:
But... you're not 40-50!
Try playing newman GunTecher after being Fortecher, see how badly your damage gets nerfed(Sorry Itsuki ><), THEN come back and say that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



I don't care. It wont change I how I feel about my role. It doesn't matter if other races out damage me. Really if you want a game of 2 beasts and 2 casts ONLY for nano and SUV then go for it. I'll be elsewhere on the frontlines keeping forces from having thier asses handed to them.